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E. M. Grabbe et al. Handbk. Automation, Computation, & Control II. ii. 254. "Many macroinstructions can be constructed from properly sequenced microinstructions." 02:00:07 macroscopically? 02:01:04 bremner: that might be good; i'm defining a translation table with macros, and the commit message should say: "defining translation tables macroly". 02:01:34 with/using macros? 02:03:15 "with macros" is a suitable adverbial phrase, to be sure; but damned if i can't get a nice adverb. 02:04:59 I don't think that the adverb you're looking for exists. That could just be the sound of my own ignorance though *shrug* 02:05:28 In the context of Scheme, the usual thing to say is "syntactically". 02:07:18 chandler: ah, nice! ("periphrastic" was the word i was looking for, btw, to describe adverbial phrases.) 02:07:43 If you're looking for something with "macro" as a root, I'd go for "macrologically", which has just enough wordishness to be plausible. 02:08:15 Heh, that's a new word for me! (`Periphrasatic') 02:08:24 "syntactically" is perfect, though; i had a feeling there was some latent adverb sleeping among my neurons that i'd seen but not used. 02:12:21 Though "macrologically" seems to be quite rare, "macrological" seems to be used a bit more often, including at least one use by a certain Altazimuth P. 02:15:16 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 02:16:09 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #scheme 02:19:36 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:25:55 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:29:11 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:55 groovy2shoes [~guv@wvc32564rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #scheme 02:29:55 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@wvc32564rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 02:29:55 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 02:40:59 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[~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 04:17:53 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #scheme 04:18:02 bitweiler [~bitweiler@adsl-99-40-236-82.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:18:35 -!- Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:21 x 04:21:55 morphbot [~morphbot@p57B579B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 04:21:57 -!- morphbot [~morphbot@p57B579B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 04:27:59 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:28:35 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 04:30:52 bitweiler: Unbound identifier: x 04:31:27 hehe 04:32:19 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:53 cky: i was trying to type in other buffer 04:34:03 On IRC, there's a convention where people type "wrong window" or "ww" if they meant to type the message elsewhere. :-) 04:34:19 Then others in the channel know to disregard your last message. 04:39:15 I would read "ww" as some other mistake, or a Japanese "lol". 04:39:51 Fair enough. I suppose it's not a universal convention, but just the circles I move in. 04:45:58 oh, sorry than 04:46:48 bitweiler: No need to be sorry at all. 04:47:15 bitweiler: Just that people are more likely to give you smartarse comments if you don't explain that that was an unintended message. :-P 04:51:50 oh i see 04:52:09 :-P 04:57:26 -!- somnium [~user@184.42.0.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:24 -!- copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:01:48 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 05:04:47 jenia [~jenia2009@modemcable148.172-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 05:05:06 can anyone tell me of scheme library to interact with the display? 05:05:18 that is, windows and drawing capabilities 05:05:18 like ncurses? 05:05:30 let me see 05:06:32 yea 05:06:42 can you point me to a nice tutorial on how to use it? 05:06:55 i just need to draw some pictures for practice with functional programming 05:07:47 -!- chemuduguntar [~user@smtp.touchcut.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:26 no okay, got it 05:08:27 thanks 05:09:25 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:09:58 :)) 05:10:08 He solved his own question 05:10:14 that's what I want my AI to do 05:10:15 =)) 05:10:19 hehe 05:10:20 Awesome 05:10:43 Through, GA and NN can't help in all situations 05:10:54 when cases are too much and wide 05:13:29 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:14:35 Time for recursive and functions :P 05:17:46 Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #scheme 05:18:59 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:22:11 Bogosort is the ultimate AI. 05:22:23 -!- Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:28 groovy2shoes [~guv@wvc32564rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has joined #scheme 05:23:29 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@wvc32564rh.rh.ncsu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 05:23:29 groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #scheme 05:24:12 -!- NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 05:24:20 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 05:24:40 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:29:40 -!- groovy2shoes [~guv@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: groovy2shoes] 05:32:00 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has joined #scheme 05:41:32 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:26 Rmind [~Rmind@113.190.182.90] has joined #scheme 05:47:43 . 05:47:57 -!- Rmind [~Rmind@113.190.182.90] has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:41 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 05:56:50 -!- mwolfe [~michael@cpe-67-49-72-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:41 -!- jenia [~jenia2009@modemcable148.172-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:11:27 Checkie [23044@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 06:18:39 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 06:20:26 -!- Intensity [CoFsRM7gjg@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:23 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #scheme 06:27:41 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:40 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #scheme 06:40:52 minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:43:30 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:43:55 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 06:52:09 lewis17112 [~lewis@222-155-163-79.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 06:53:45 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-65/srfi-65.html damn it's withdrawn. is there anything similar, or any way to do it yourself? 06:54:16 scheme is great but the lack of immutables is driving me nuts. I want to define pi and such. pi should be avaialable everywhere! 06:54:30 what scheme system are you using 06:54:49 lewis17112: you want some DEFCONSTANT? 06:55:15 jonrafkind: gambit, racket, have guile somewhere. I usually use racket as I cba setting up emacs 06:55:26 lewis17112: (define pi (atan 0 -1)) 06:55:28 Axioplase_: yeah that sounds like it, will try that 06:55:28 Done. 06:55:41 but thats not immutable.. 06:55:59 in racket you can use a set!-transformer to prevent set! from working 06:56:02 hmm, DEFCONSTANT ISN"T in gambe 06:56:03 t 06:56:04 lewis17112: I don't expect Scheme implementations to have it, eh. 06:56:05 *gambit 06:56:10 oh 06:56:17 what language is that? 06:56:23 It's a CL thing. I was just trying to understand what you're looking for. 06:56:23 common lisp or something? 06:57:06 yes 06:57:12 but yeah, just something that would limit any more re-defining, or set!, or whatever, so I can no, no matter what other horrible things I do in my code, that pi still = exactly 3 06:57:16 give or take;) 06:58:22 lewis17112: Wait. 06:59:13 lewis17112: I have a simple solution for you. :-P 06:59:27 (define set! error) ; Fixed that for ya 06:59:55 (Not really.) 07:00:01 set! is syntax, can't really define it. 07:00:13 (define-syntax (set! stx) (raise-syntax-error 'set! "failed")) 07:00:16 :-D 07:01:13 lewis17112: what about: (define-type immutable (data val read-only:)) (define pi (make-immutable 3.141592)) (pp (+ 1 (val pi))) 07:01:43 -!- lewis17112 [~lewis@222-155-163-79.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:01:58 Hahahahaha. 07:02:03 and you force yourself not to set! it :) 07:03:35 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:06:35 Well, he could also (define-macro (pi) 3.1415). Trying to SET! it gives a nice error. 07:06:48 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 07:09:13 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 07:10:25 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:04 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 07:16:30 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:17:01 minecamph [~user@p54B18035.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 07:19:55 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:21:37 -!- mathk_ [~mathk@194.177.61.156] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 07:25:43 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-196.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 07:35:08 sunnyps [~sunnyps@55.snat-111-91-110.hns.net.in] has joined #scheme 07:37:07 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:43:39 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:51:23 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-196.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:35 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 08:06:37 -!- defn_ is now known as defn 08:07:28 -!- defn is now known as devn 08:19:22 is there a funtion like "take" some number of infinte loop 08:20:23 emergency hacking session: how do I print stuff in lisp (in emacs lisp) 08:30:52 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:38:11 What's the distinction between a vector and an array? 08:40:00 nothing really, usually both allow fast access to arbitrary parts because the object is of a fixed size 08:40:44 in what context do you see both? 08:41:13 Just reading the manual it talks as if they were different things. 08:41:39 what manual 08:42:17 It's one of the guile docs. 08:43:39 seems that guile arrays are multi-dimensional vectors 08:46:57 (vector-fill x 3) gives me an error. x is a vector. 08:50:08 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #scheme 08:55:36 hey guys 08:55:48 how to make List1 = List 2 ? 08:55:59 ( = List1 List2) can't work ? 08:56:14 or should I do like (map = List1 List2) ? 08:56:43 Gmind: there's nothing in R5RS. 08:57:05 Gmind: in CL you could use (replace list1 list2) if both lists are of the same length to have (equal list1 list2). 08:57:29 but in Scheme ? 08:57:33 can I define one 08:57:48 Just find a simple way to replace 08:57:57 Gmind: the problem is that you don't say what you want. List1 = List2 is meaaningless. Read: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html 08:58:10 you just want a deep copy of list1? 08:58:23 Yes, you can define replace, or probably find it in a library. Perhaps some SRFI. 09:00:26 =.+! oh , this is #Scheme channel , right ? 09:01:06 =)) this funny 09:02:45 Gmind: what's funny? 09:07:40 -!- minecamph is now known as camphmine 09:19:35 pavelludiq [c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.141.47.130] has joined #scheme 09:20:13 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 09:21:18 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 09:27:15 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:09 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:00 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:59:29 ok, so I will use recursion instead of replace 09:59:53 hkBst [~quassel@79.170.210.174] has joined #scheme 09:59:53 -!- hkBst [~quassel@79.170.210.174] has quit [Changing host] 09:59:53 hkBst [~quassel@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 10:03:30 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:03:34 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 10:04:22 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 10:17:31 -!- Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-179-17-189.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:21:24 Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-179-17-189.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 10:22:17 -!- pavelludiq [c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.141.47.130] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:24:16 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:25:00 How do I do integer division? 10:31:46 *Gmind* have just looked at SCIP, quite interesting :P 10:35:00 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:41:27 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:39 slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has joined #scheme 10:51:05 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:55:44 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-tfwstgqpjdraaews] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:18 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 11:03:23 camphmine, (quotient) 11:03:48 Caleb--: Thanks. 11:07:35 -!- drdo [~user@bl5-19-103.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:55 Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has joined #scheme 11:29:00 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:48 oh man 11:33:49 =.= 11:33:58 can anyone here make a scheme for xmas 11:34:28 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 11:35:04 can't "define" which '(item) to (->list ) of present 11:37:28 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 11:47:06 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:18 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 11:54:44 -!- 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quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- sid3k [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:41:48 copumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 fds [~frankie@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 danking [~danking@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 Zol [~Zolomon@li152-84.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 chandra [crito@unaffiliated/crito] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 shardz [samuel@ilo.staticfree.info] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 rrm3_ [~rrm3@rrm3.org] has joined #scheme 16:41:48 sid3k [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 16:45:27 ha! i coerced the facebook puzzlebot to accept a submission in scheme; thank god. maybe i'll write up instructions. 16:46:21 the nominally accepted languages are either inconvenient, esoteric or boring. 16:48:27 Fancy. Did you compile to C with Chicken, then send the C to Facebook? :-P 16:49:10 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #scheme 16:49:39 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:49 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:51:44 Or maybe, you attached a copy of Chibi to your submission. :-P 17:01:17 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:07 hi there. is there a way to insert an element to a list? i have (list 1 2) and want (list 1 2 3) by inserting 3 to it 17:03:40 Zahl: What are you trying to do? 17:03:49 Zahl: (Big-picture-wise.) 17:04:29 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:04:58 i have a list with items, i travel it by map. but before i map it i want to add a id as the first element of that list 17:05:15 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:05:24 like (id item1, item2) the original list is just (item1 item2) 17:05:35 -!- slom [~sloma@port-87-234-239-162.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:35 i was looking for tomething like (insert 17:06:27 Well, to add an element to the front, use cons. 17:06:38 rudybot: (define thing '(item1 item2)) 17:06:40 cky: your sandbox is ready 17:06:40 cky: Done. 17:06:42 rudybot: thing 17:06:43 cky: ; Value: (item1 item2) 17:06:49 rudybot: (define thing (cons 'id thing)) 17:06:50 cky: Done. 17:06:52 rudybot: thing 17:06:52 cky: ; Value: (id item1 item2) 17:06:55 Zahl: ^^--- 17:08:23 aaaah. i was blind :-) thank yo 17:08:43 :-) 17:14:22 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:07 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:47 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:23:49 aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:23:53 :)) 17:31:12 M1CK3YD [cf431143@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.67.17.67] has joined #scheme 17:31:20 hi 17:31:54 -!- M1CK3YD [cf431143@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.67.17.67] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:58 O_O 17:32:23 The Golden Arches came to #scheme? :-P 17:32:23 :D 17:32:28 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.182.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:32:53 cky, is there a "clean" way of using "let" inside a cond? 17:33:13 Caleb--: Sure, inside each branch. :-P 17:33:18 for example, if i want to use (car blah) a lot, and i want to set it up as a local var 17:33:42 :/ 17:33:51 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:53 Well, you could also do: 17:33:59 You could put it just outside the cond too 17:34:10 i have two lists, and i want to compare their first elements. the problem is that i have to check whether they are null in the first 2 conditions 17:34:12 (if (null? foo) ... (let ((bar (car foo))) (cond ...))) 17:34:16 so i cannot wrap the let around the cond 17:34:18 yes 17:34:22 but if i have 2 null checks 17:34:30 i thought of having nested if's, but that's so ugly 17:34:42 sunnyps [~sunnyps@98.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has joined #scheme 17:34:42 two nested if's for the null checks, and the rest if a let 17:34:55 Why do you need two nested ifs? You can use and. 17:34:55 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:35:10 i need to return one thing if one list is null, and another if the other is null 17:35:11 (if (and (not (null? foo)) (not (null? bar)))) ...) 17:35:16 Oh, I see. 17:35:22 Well, you can use cond, if you want. :-P 17:35:40 (cond ((null? foo) ...) ((null? bar) ...) (else (let (...) ...) ...)) 17:35:49 &_& 17:45:56 masm [~masm@bl16-198-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 17:47:02 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:47:14 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:39 karlw [kwinterlin@FreeBSDShell.com.possessed.us] has joined #scheme 17:50:53 So, I'm assuming that Racket TCP ports are fully buffered. 17:52:35 So (display data out) guarantees that data will be fully delivered over the connection? 17:53:38 karlw, to quote the docs: Initially, the returned input port is block-buffered, and the returned output port is block-buffered. (that's for the result of `tcp-connect') 17:54:21 Okay, thanks. 17:55:28 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:22 -!- sunnyps [~sunnyps@98.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:57:26 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 17:59:00 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:00:35 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:02:40 -!- karlw [kwinterlin@FreeBSDShell.com.possessed.us] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:09:05 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #scheme 18:14:17 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 18:17:16 sunnyps [~sunnyps@98.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has joined #scheme 18:20:10 -!- sunnyps [~sunnyps@98.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:21 sunnyps [~sunnyps@98.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has joined #scheme 18:21:54 -!- sunnyps [~sunnyps@98.snat-111-91-127.hns.net.in] has quit [Client Quit] 18:30:05 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:32:20 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:48 mathk__ [~mathk@83.159.73.231] has joined #scheme 18:42:54 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:45 -!- mathk_ [~mathk@194.177.61.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:50:27 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.21] has joined #scheme 18:53:28 githogori [~githogori@199.sub-75-208-247.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 19:09:42 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-198-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:13:05 choas [~lars@p578F66E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:18:11 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 19:18:45 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 19:19:00 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #scheme 19:22:36 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:52 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #scheme 19:24:07 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:01 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:51 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 19:29:49 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:36:16 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-124-248.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:37:35 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 19:40:06 -!- tupi [~david@139.82.89.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:44:37 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-103.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:45:19 cky: chibi occurred to me, yeah; i went with SISC, but it's slow as hell. 19:45:55 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:45:57 cky: i initially wanted to go with chicken and set the LD_LIBRARY_PATH, etc.; but i'm not sure what architecture the bot is using. 19:45:57 -!- DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:46:55 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:02 wow, chibi gzips to about 100k; whereas SISC weighs in at about 1MB. i wonder if it wouldn't be feasible to embed chibi somehow. 19:52:03 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 19:52:05 holy shit: it builds in under five seconds, too, which should be within compilation limits. 19:52:56 I'm missing context. Care to enlighten me? 19:53:30 Ah, nevermind. Found it in the logs. 19:53:47 chandler: i succesfully submitted a facebook puzzle in scheme, even though it isn't an "approved language": . 19:54:07 SISC is a relatively awkward mechanism, though; i wouldn't if chibi wouldn't be more suitable. 19:58:28 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:58:40 klutometis: It compiles in about 1s on my machine - use "make chibi-scheme" if you don't need the extra libraries. 19:59:31 If there's anything I can do to make that sort of task easier let me know. 20:01:08 foof: wow; `make chibi-scheme' took 0.195. fantastic; it's such a clean scheme, too. you've really done a service. 20:02:19 make -j 2: /usr/bin/env: chibi-scheme: No such file or directory 20:02:48 uh but just 'make' worked 20:03:37 but another invocation of make -j 2 sort of worked, ./libchibi-scheme.so: file not recognized: File truncated. yay for race conditions 20:04:04 foof: i guess i'm going to have to include the unmodified source tarball with my solution and have the bot build it to execute my srfi-22 script. 20:04:18 i hope that doesn't violate any license constraints. 20:08:57 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:02 i wonder if there's a cleaner way to go about it, though. 20:10:13 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 20:10:15 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 20:11:29 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #scheme 20:16:00 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:16:16 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #scheme 20:18:21 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:19:48 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:15 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:20:25 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #scheme 20:20:50 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:20:57 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:24:30 DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has joined #scheme 20:25:27 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:26:12 Oejet [~oejet@212.45.122.120] has joined #scheme 20:26:20 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:27:24 Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-156.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:23 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:29:29 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@99.149.226.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:30:24 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-72-127-156.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:00 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: Have a reasonable solstice, everyone!] 20:45:58 -!- Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:48:49 Oejet1 [~oejet@212.45.122.120] has joined #scheme 20:49:47 -!- Oejet [~oejet@212.45.122.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:03 -!- Oejet1 [~oejet@212.45.122.120] has left #scheme 21:02:40 jonrafkind: "make -j 2 chibi-scheme" will work 21:02:54 why not just 'make -j 2' 21:03:56 Dunno... there are a few bootstrapping issues - it needs a working chibi-scheme in order to build the libraries. 21:04:35 ok just raising the issue, im not too worried about it 21:04:54 Latest dev might work. I keep going back and forth whether I want normal make dependencies or nested $(MAKE) calls. 21:05:17 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:05:25 id say you should use scons, but i guess you dont want to rely on python 21:05:39 i cant believe anyone still uses the autotools in this day and age 21:06:21 I'll never use autotools. For anything more complicated I'll just write my own tools. 21:06:57 But make is fairly portable. 21:07:21 Yes, GNU make is very portable 21:07:23 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:24 :) 21:07:39 i lump in make with autotools 21:07:50 jonrafkind: !!!! 21:08:11 Yes, and the Makefile in Chibi is GNU, with instructions for other makes (just a few conditionals at the top). 21:09:02 jonrafkind: make has issues, but isn't fundamentally broken like autotools 21:09:26 make is a pain when you want to do complex things 21:09:55 autotools are a pain when you want to do _anything_ 21:11:16 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:27 autotools are a pain whether you want to do anything or not! 21:11:47 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:15:43 autotools is silly 21:25:15 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:27:33 -!- drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:52 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:19 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:48:28 nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has joined #scheme 21:54:03 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 22:00:39 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 22:12:11 Nils^ [hammerfest@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-wnvsnkxcwzxxvzer] has joined #scheme 22:13:39 greetings, schemelings. I have a list of lists and I need a function to list-ref the inner ones and get out a new list from them. I have done this with map list-ref. But here comes the problem: 22:14:49 I need a different list-ref for each of the sublists. So I want position 0 from the first sub and position 3 from the second (and so on, with an arbitrary number of sublists). So I guess I need to write a function that takes a list of these position counters as parameter. But whats inside the function ... I think I'm lost here. 22:15:20 (map (lambda (lst pos) (list-ref lst pos)) lists positions) 22:15:22 i'd guess :) 22:16:13 example (list (list a b c) (list d e f) (list g h i)) and I want '(b f h) as return list. 22:16:18 ecraven: let me try... 22:20:33 ecraven: yes, thanks. 22:20:41 Azuvix [~Azuvix@71-215-25-216.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:20:49 do you understand why it works? 22:21:07 yes. I avoided lambda so far but I read about it 22:21:54 Nils^: `list-ref' is a code-smell in Scheme 22:21:55 map takes a function and n lists, and applies function to the ith value in each list in succession. 22:21:58 one of the first rules of Fight Club is to never avoid lambda. 22:22:04 scheme without lambda is like C without segfaults 22:22:06 er ... 22:22:08 ecraven: I had the method in my mind but I was writing subprograms list-ref2 list-ref3 to use with map 22:22:29 foof: "code-smell" ? 22:22:33 if you pass more than one list, map passes one value of each in order to the function 22:22:37 -!- wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:22:54 wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:23:44 so zip is map list :) 22:23:46 Nils^: A sign that you're probably doing something wrong. 22:24:03 foof: list-ref ?! its such a basic thing 22:24:33 It's O(n). 22:24:46 so? 22:25:03 if you to do it, then you have to do. 22:25:06 it^ 22:26:02 foof: I mean, how do you think should I get one member of a list? 22:26:35 somnium: very good. 22:26:40 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 22:27:09 pjb: ? 22:27:26 somnium: "scheme without lambda is like C without segfaults." 22:27:58 -!- choas [~lars@p578F66E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:11 Nils^: There is no spoon. 22:28:32 Why do you want to get the nth member of a list? 22:29:03 You should be happy with first and rest... 22:31:17 foof: well, there are plenty of examples. But to keep it abstract: Any time you have a known index and want data and relative data to that position. 22:31:43 Where did the index come from? 22:32:01 Nils^: if you really need indexes its probably better to use vectors 22:32:11 if you have an index, you should probably use vectors 22:32:34 it was just an example. I have to read what vectors are now :) 22:32:52 Teach Yourself Scheme in Fixnum days maybe did not elaborate on this 22:32:52 arrays 22:33:06 I know lists and hash tables 22:33:14 The issue is not _if_ you have an index, but _why_ do you have an index? 22:33:31 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:35 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:34:13 We have the means to make you speak! Why do you have an index? 22:34:26 I'm typing 22:34:31 :-) 22:37:06 Gnsh [~Genosh@52.Red-88-11-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:37:31 BTW, the lesson to be learned here is exactly why you don't need `string-ref' either. 22:37:56 A list of connected items. For example music notes ordered in way that you can step left and right to find connected notes. The index is a hash that says: "note G is on position 4". The problem is: What is two positions left of "G" 22:39:04 Nils^: You're making your solution part of the problem. 22:39:47 (list-ref list_of_notes (- (hashq-ref G) 2)) 22:39:48 Pose a problem from a high-level: how do I represent a musical score? 22:40:25 foof: I hesitated so long because I searched for another, non music, example. There is a really complex problem underneath 22:41:40 but to stay on this example: You have a list of items which are not connected by anything else than human choice. There is no inner logic that connects these things, just symbols. The problem here is: 22:42:31 I call an item by its name/symbol and want to know what is x positions before/after. 22:42:32 To design a musical score data structure, you need to know what kinds of things you want to do with the score. The most basic is to step through the notes in sequence. 22:42:34 parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:15 foof: this is not about scores. Its a music theory problem. 22:44:05 imagine it as math with roman numbers. 22:44:22 or an even stranger concept 22:44:25 Oh, I see, you mean the abstract note G, for which the whole note predecessor is F? 22:45:07 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:30 foof: its 5th, but basically you are right. the list, an excerpt: (f c g d a e h) 22:45:34 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-29.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:46:09 so I have an ordered system but its unknown to the computer. You need to teach him that d + 1 = a 22:46:48 I did this by list-ref 22:48:45 btw. this is not related to the problem from before, just my example for list-ref. I would be happy if there is a better way 22:48:46 OK, that has a special mathematical rationale for using numbers, and is one of the rare cases where you probably want to work with a vector. 22:49:00 -!- nilg [~user@77.70.2.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:06 -!- mathk__ [~mathk@83.159.73.231] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 22:51:18 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: Kerrick] 22:52:43 foof: thanks, I'll read about this. 22:55:55 There are also some music applications written in Scheme (see snd and lilypond). 22:56:11 noonian [~noonian@c-98-232-230-23.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:57:21 foof: if you are interested in this I would be happy to tell you. But its real detailed and depth work, not covered by lilypond. If you are not familiar with music theory it sadly would be a waste of time. This is why I write functions that make music theory available to more people :) 23:02:40 http://pastebin.com/RLqQQYdk this is the real problem, why I asked about accessing multiple lists in parallel, but eventually with different counter. I intend to offset the counter if I encounter a gap like in my example. 23:03:37 get the data and create a new, corrected, version of the list of lists 23:05:09 OK, now you're talking about a score again :) 23:05:30 this is correct. The score is the original data. But its useless in this form 23:06:40 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 23:06:52 in the real world this means breaking long notes into smaller ones to get the same amount ob note-objects in each voice. 23:06:53 The score should definitely be a vector, with each index representing the smallest time step. 23:07:10 where is the original problem? 23:07:20 or, the one you are working on 23:07:29 noonian: In Mozart's head. 23:07:55 the pastebin I wrote 23:07:58 http://pastebin.com/RLqQQYdk 23:09:06 foof: this is not meant to playback or anything performance or print related. Whats important is one step right on the x axis. Comparing all from position A with position B 23:09:38 its for analysis. An index with the smallest time step would be a huge pile of redundant data 23:09:46 of course, this could be sorted out... 23:09:48 yeah, does it go by measure length or something? 23:10:06 it goes by stepping right. duration of the note is unimportant 23:10:27 Nils^: if you represent it as foof suggests, you can easily do things like, find every index where 'g' or 'G' occurs, move right of the first 'g' 23:10:57 that's what you're seeking right? a representation that is easy to analyze? 23:10:57 well, it becomes unimportant once there are no gaps. 23:11:22 somnium: this is about the pastbin example or the list of notesteps from before 23:11:24 ? 23:13:39 I think its time for me to read about vectors now. 23:15:26 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:29:27 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 23:32:21 a vector is just an array 23:33:41 -!- DrDuck [~duck@216.186.151.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:36:24 yes 23:47:43 Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has joined #scheme 23:48:04 just wondering - what's out there as unit testing for scheme? 23:49:14 what implementation are you on? 23:49:28 choose one. 23:49:44 I'm swiping possible languages to teach 23:49:52 *sweeping 23:50:00 racket has a test engine thing 23:50:07 racket has rackunit 23:50:17 for teaching there is a whole testing paradigm associated with writing programs 23:50:33 i mean there are little units made specifically for teaching 23:50:52 sounds kickass 23:53:27 jonrafkind, got me a little hind where they are? 23:55:18 -!- parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:55:23 I don't find them on racket-lang.org 23:57:57 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:29 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:09 noonian, foof: are vectors the right thing if I want to create a coordinate system? 23:59:36 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme