00:00:03 chandler, ?? 00:00:09 (I'm generally reluctant to offer my help, because of the effort it requires from the person being hepled. :P) 00:00:17 s/hepled/helped/ 00:02:38 it is 2am here i am awake for almost 25 hours ,, being student(comp-sci) is a painful thing (: 00:02:38 franki^: there is a channel on oftc #debian-mentors that lets you spread some of those debian packaging questions around. 00:04:42 bremner: I have been there before, and I subscribe to the mentors mailing list. I'm just building myself up slowly :) 00:04:51 bremner: But I'll dive in one of these days 00:06:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-147-115.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:34 chandler, if you dont have any idea about my problem, i will try to ask later :/ i need to go now 00:07:45 chandler, thanks alot 00:08:27 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:09:04 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 00:09:20 -!- erkangur [~erkangur@85.103.209.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:11:49 franki^: git://git.debian.org/git/collab-maint/racket 00:12:02 franki^: Alpha Debian packaging for Racket. NOTE: It is rough in spots. 00:12:47 franki^: Like it expects to find Racket's shared files in /usr/share/racket rather than /usr/lib/racket, but when I did a build, /usr/share/racket only has doc, not collects. 00:12:54 And this chokes the .deb build. 00:13:03 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:13:18 cky: I'd appreciate a log of the build failure. 00:14:09 I'll see what I can do next time I decide I have the patience to run a build. 00:14:58 ok. 00:15:02 Or maybe I should just fix what I can, get it working, and put my changes to github or something. 00:15:08 even better :) 00:15:11 :-) 00:15:50 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e064cc1.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 00:18:12 -!- TheRealPygo [~pygospa@217.191.164.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:19:48 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 00:21:04 alaricsp [~alaric@mukhadvaram.gurukuli.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:25:14 pygospa [~pygospa@217.191.167.215] has joined #scheme 00:25:20 franki^, I just stumbled across in a Debian bug report requesting an amd64 package. The author's address is his domain name at Gmail. 00:25:28 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27124157.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:27:14 -!- jao [~user@83.32.170.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:45 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:42:30 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@144-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:51:51 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:55:44 cky: Interesting, but I wasn't actually the one talking about Racket, that was erkangur. :) 00:56:51 Riastradh: Also interesting, especially since he appears to be a violinist! At the moment I'm just using my self-compiled version, but it would be nice to see it in the repositories for Wheezy! 01:01:35 Plenty of time for that, no? 01:02:32 I hope so, but the bug report Riastradh mentioned appears to go back to 2007 01:03:02 Sorry,30 April, 2006 01:03:41 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:01 Sort of. The original bug (which is slightly confused) does, but the package I referred to was posted in June of 2010. That said, though, Chris is swamped, so I don't expect him to do anything about this any time soon. 01:05:40 Stefano Zacchiroli keeps telling me that if I want something in Debian I just have to do it, so I guess I just have to do it. :) 01:20:08 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:20:56 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@mukhadvaram.gurukuli.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:21:30 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:57 -!- pantsd_home [~pantsd_ho@174-31-197-194.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:40:48 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-247.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 01:43:25 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:44:11 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@91.191.33.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:44:56 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:45:51 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-140-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:31 evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:52:51 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 02:03:57 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:02 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 02:09:32 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 02:16:49 Kerrick [~Kerrick@b01-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 02:18:42 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:15 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 02:22:22 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:24:35 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-53-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:24:57 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-53-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:24:58 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 02:30:30 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:32:10 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:32:48 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:42:02 jao [~user@229.Red-83-32-170.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:42:03 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-34-218.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:26 aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 03:06:05 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-247.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:11:21 -!- wisepumpkin [~pumpkin@unaffiliated/pumpkingod] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:11:28 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-34-218.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:28 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-139-235.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:24:24 lusory [~bart@bb219-75-1-110.singnet.com.sg] has joined #scheme 03:48:40 -!- Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-34-218.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:52:16 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176192238.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:35 timj_ [~timj@e176194019.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:52:36 vernono [~vernono@pa-67-234-43-42.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #scheme 03:54:04 -!- vernono [~vernono@pa-67-234-43-42.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #scheme 03:58:52 xcarm [~milsem@213.226.63.58] has joined #scheme 04:01:40 hi need me help for one task 04:03:29 to writes a program, which devide a numeral of digits and summed odds digit 04:03:30 .. 04:03:35 who can help me 04:03:56 *digits 04:06:14 Hahahahaha. 04:06:25 How far have you got so far? 04:07:30 wisepumpkin [~pumpkin@pool-72-70-64-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:07:50 to nowhere :) 04:08:23 to function i think 04:08:31 one for devide a numeral 04:09:05 / 04:09:08 :) 04:09:15 and other for summary odds digits 04:09:18 .. 04:09:19 ? 04:09:35 / is a function that divides numbers. :P 04:10:10 devide a number of digits.. 04:11:45 cky, franki^ ? 04:12:03 we are the men :-) 04:12:30 Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you mean... 04:12:42 *you 04:13:00 Can you perhaps give some examples of what you expect the input and output of the function to be? 04:13:01 tell me what you think 04:13:10 ok 04:13:20 input -> 1234 04:13:36 (summary only odds digits..) 04:13:49 output -> 1+3 = 4 04:14:10 Ah, I see 04:14:42 -!- imran_sr [~imran@75-18-254-4.lightspeed.uncyca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:14:57 are you understood me ? 04:15:17 Yeah, I'm just not sure how to do that. :) 04:15:32 my engl is not good .. 04:15:43 Possibly you need to turn the number into a string and then "car" the string, if that's possible... 04:15:49 Heh, it's okay. 04:15:52 Yikes! 04:15:55 no 04:16:05 witch recursion only 04:16:06 Well, I don't know :P 04:16:15 example 04:16:24 (define a) 04:16:34 Turning it into a string is at best a needless step, at worst a red herring. How would you turn it into a string? 04:16:47 (if (< a 0)0 04:16:58 Please don't paste code into the channel, xcarm. Use lisppaste: 04:16:59 lisppaste: url 04:16:59 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 04:17:04 I don;t know, I've never been faced with this kind of problem. :< 04:17:10 ok 04:17:12 sorry 04:17:34 Arithmetically speaking, what is the first decimal digit of a number n? 04:17:50 I'm just thinking from my human perspective of "looking at each digit in the decimal representation" 04:17:53 remainder? 04:18:01 xcarm, can you be more specific? 04:18:02 for last digit 04:18:17 remainder a 10 04:18:18 Ah. Sorry, let me be more specific, too: the least significant decimal digit. 04:18:34 OK (although I called the number n, not a). 04:18:53 And how do you get at the rest of the digits? 04:18:55 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:12 end recursive quotient a 10 04:19:28 *and 04:19:30 :) 04:20:28 Great! So you're all set, and you can code this up, right? 04:20:57 yes 04:21:04 but later ..? 04:21:33 how can i doing to a program summary only odds digits 04:21:47 code need i translated 04:21:48 no problem 04:22:03 becouse my engl is very bad 04:22:05 sorry 04:24:25 Are you having difficulty writing the program, or have you written something that doesn't work? 04:25:02 no 04:25:06 just thinking 04:25:07 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25:15 *thinks :) 04:25:27 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:25:50 i havnt a something program or code 04:26:26 just this task is interesting me 04:29:30 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-zshoovrxuyhqyuts] has joined #scheme 04:29:32 *franki^* thinks he solved it 04:29:56 I'm still embarrassed by my previous statements though, so I'm keeping quiet 04:30:20 dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:35:28 Don't be embarrassed to have learned something! 04:36:24 True :) 04:36:38 I just don't work well under pressure. 04:37:00 Even just the pressure of typing my stupid thoughts out on IRC! 04:37:06 Exercise: Implement INTEGER->STRING (in decimal -- or in a given radix, if you like). 04:37:55 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:38:29 This may be helpful, although it is not strictly guaranteed to work (but seriously, no Scheme system uses EBCDIC): 04:38:31 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:38:36 rudybot: eval (let ((d 7)) (integer->char (+ (char->integer #\0) d))) 04:38:39 Riastradh: your sandbox is ready 04:38:39 Riastradh: ; Value: #\7 04:45:58 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:49:52 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 04:51:15 Riastradh: Here's my terrible-but-working-for-integers-greater-than-0 version... http://paste.lisp.org/display/116828 04:52:48 Why 10.0 and not 10? Note that, unlike traditional Lisp systems, a decimal point in Scheme signifies an inexact number, rather than `I mean decimal, not octal!'. 04:54:01 Uhh, bad habit, I guess 04:54:08 *franki^* regex-replaces 04:54:40 Not that string-replace wouldn't work, but regex-replace is the one I have as a keybinding. 04:54:45 Try using the code fragment I gave to rudybot in order to avoid the separate cases. Also, consider building a list of digit characters and then turning it into a string in one swell foop with LIST->STRING; as is, your algorithm's running time is quadratic in the number of digits, on most Scheme systems, because it appends a string of length O(d), O(d) times. 04:56:55 (Of course, even with that change, it is probably quadratic in the number of (bignum) digits, because of the quotients and remainders. Nevertheless, it is a good habit to avoid algorithms that run in quadratic time due to APPEND or STRING-APPEND.) 04:57:44 Yes, I'm vaguely aware of the need to avoid appending, but it's just so useful! 04:57:48 *franki^* tries harder 05:01:33 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:05:17 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:08:09 You may want to split this into a recursive procedure that handles nonzero inputs, and an enclosing procedure that either gives "0" for 0 or kicks off the recursion for nonzero. 05:16:00 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:21:26 rudybot: give xcarm sum-of-odd-digits 05:21:26 xcarm: cky has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 05:25:46 franki^: Appending is not "just so useful" once you "get" Lisp programming. :-P 05:26:46 My version of summing odd digits is very heavy on SRFI 1, but that's to be expected. 05:27:32 I see SRFI 1 (and in some cases, 13 and/or 43) as "almost core". 05:28:31 mmc [~michal@cs27124157.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 05:29:03 cky: May that day come soon. :P 05:29:08 franki^: Hahahaha. 05:29:13 *franki^* needs to read up on unfold too 05:29:15 On the upside, my SRFI 1 version of that function is just 3 lines long. 05:30:24 franki^: Unfold simply builds a list from a "single" value. 05:30:31 In my case, I just build a list of digits with it. 05:30:32 Honestly, I need to have a shower now, and probably sleep. Scheme is just so addictive! 05:30:37 Hahaha, yes. 05:30:39 Have fun! 05:35:31 I'm just going to lisppaste my solution. It's not directly usable as a homework answer (I think), and if xcarm successfully understands that code, then learning has happened, so. :-) 05:36:32 cky pasted "Sum of odd digits" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/116829 05:41:04 xcarm: The reason I say you probably can't just hand in my solution is that I use a lot of shortcuts, like unfold and filter. In most courses, you'll be made to write those functions yourself, and I'll definitely leave those parts for you. 05:41:28 But, the key is to split up the problem into bits: here, the bits are unfolding, filtering, and adding. 05:41:43 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet3706.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #scheme 05:41:59 Each of those bits are easy to implement on their own. So, by doing them like that, the problem becomes less formidable. 05:42:48 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 05:43:45 Since you say your English isn't very good, I'll explain what unfolding and filtering are. (Hopefully adding is obvious.) 05:44:03 In this problem, unfolding means that you're turning the number into a list of its digits. 05:44:18 So given the number 1048576, after the unfolding, you'll get the list (1 0 4 8 5 7 6). 05:44:32 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:44:44 Filtering means that you only keep items in the list that fulfil some criterion. In this case, the criterion is that it be an odd number. 05:53:28 Are we summing a list of digits? 05:53:46 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:53:46 askhader: Summing the odd digits only. 05:54:32 Do we have access to higher order functions? 05:54:54 askhader: I don't know about the OP's course. My solution uses lots of higher-order functions. :-P 05:55:12 askhader: Feel free to solve it yourself, then look at my solution: ttp://paste.lisp.org/display/116829 05:55:16 Uh, s/ttp/http/ 05:55:24 This is a single call to foldl, no? 05:55:39 You solve it whatever way you like. :-) 05:55:44 Oh sure that words 05:55:46 *askhader* avoids apply 05:55:51 It's isomorphic to map, isn't it? 05:55:58 Not really. 05:56:17 But, you can replace (apply + ...) with (fold + 0 ...) if you want. 05:57:00 REDUCE, surely. 05:57:08 Riastradh++ 05:57:19 I always forget to use reduce when it works better than fold. 05:58:30 askhader: Given a list (1 2 3 4). (apply + l) calls (+ 1 2 3 4). (fold + 0 l) calls (+ 0 1), (+ 1 2), (+ 3 3), and (+ 6 4). (reduce + 0 l) is the same except it skips the (+ 0 1) call. 05:59:31 I might have got the operands the wrong way around (for the various + calls), but it doesn't matter in this case. 05:59:45 i.e., I think it's actually (+ 1 0), (+ 2 1), (+ 3 3), and (+ 4 6). 05:59:47 Ah I see 06:03:02 askhader: Re fold vs reduce. You only get to use reduce if the initial value is an "identity value". So, for +, if your initial value is 0, you can use reduce, since (+ x 0) = x for all values of x. 06:03:13 And likewise for * with an initial value of 1. 06:03:25 Sure 06:03:34 I noticed that. 06:03:39 :-) 06:03:41 I guess as a result the implementation is fast? 06:04:07 It skips the very first call that would have been made if you were using fold. 06:04:23 And just directly passes in the first two values of the list to your function. 06:04:23 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:27 One other place I use reduce in, even though there is technically no "identity value", is when implementing min or max. 06:05:54 In that case, you can use an initial value of #f. In the case of an empty list being passed in, that's a sensible return value for min/max. 06:06:08 Hmm interesting 06:06:17 *askhader* wants to see the definition of reduce 06:06:53 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1-reference.scm 06:07:34 It's seriously simple. In the non-empty case, it just calls fold, using the first element of the list as the initial value. 06:07:45 ahhhh 06:07:54 Excellent 06:08:05 :-) 06:11:55 So, the usual reason to use reduce with + or * or min or max is because some Scheme implementations have argument size limits, so in those cases, using apply with a _huge_ list would fail. 06:12:09 So, you can easily do something like: 06:12:29 rudybot: (define (huge-max l) (reduce max #f l)) 06:12:30 cky: Done. 06:12:40 rudybot: (huge-max (iota 1000000)) 06:12:42 cky: ; Value: 999999 06:13:06 askhader: Whereas, if you just used (apply max l), it would croak under some implementations. 06:13:28 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet3706.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:14:10 Why does the argument size limit not cause reduce to croak then? 06:14:24 Because you're not passing 1 million arguments. 06:14:35 Although I should be asleep, here's a better version of integer->string http://paste.lisp.org/display/116828#1 06:14:35 You're just passing a huge list, but as a single argument. 06:14:44 It doesn't completely work though :) 06:14:50 Ah of course 06:16:18 franki^, instead of using INTEGER->CHAR, use the snippet I gave to rudybot above, involving (CHAR->INTEGER #\0). 06:16:54 That confused me :( 06:17:31 Can you be more specific? 06:18:02 franki^: (char->integer #\0) is 48. 06:18:13 Ah 06:18:18 Given a digit d (i.e., an exact integer between 0 and 9, inclusive), it finds the character d positions after the character #\0 -- so if d is 0, it gives #\0; if d is 7, it gives #\7; &c. 06:18:23 cky, not necessarily. 06:18:30 > (char->integer #\0) 06:18:31 1048 06:18:44 Wow. 06:18:49 Okay, I retract that, then. 06:18:56 I was just about to say that it appears to add zero, but es, I see. The code for zero is almost certainly not zero itself 06:19:07 s/es/yes/ 06:19:29 It is valid for (CHAR->INTEGER #\0) to yield 0, although I don't know any Scheme system in which that is the case. 06:20:17 Yay, now it works! 06:21:06 Now, the R5RS doesn't guarantee that the decimal numeral characters are numbered consecutively; it guarantees only that they are ordered the obvious way with respect to one another. That said, in every Scheme system I know, they are consecutive. 06:22:12 Well, thanks for the fun guys. I'm off to bed now, but I'll be back soon. o/ 06:23:52 Have fun! 06:32:31 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:33:38 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 06:35:47 -!- xcarm [~milsem@213.226.63.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:37:34 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 06:46:13 kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-215.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 07:04:50 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.73] has joined #scheme 07:10:00 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27124157.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:07 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:13:07 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 07:14:34 mmc [~michal@cs27124157.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 07:21:13 Well, that's silly. In glibc, fegetenv has the side effect of masking all floating-point exception traps. 07:21:17 ...on x86 platforms. 07:23:56 Oh, just on amd64. 07:28:18 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-215.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:38 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:29:57 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 07:43:03 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@b01-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:44:00 -!- jensn [~ceres@c-83-233-145-103.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:47:54 githogori [~githogori@host-82-135-20-190.customer.m-online.net] has joined #scheme 07:50:50 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:59 decaf [~mehmet@88.231.51.166] has joined #scheme 08:00:31 karlw [~kwinterl@tsunami.OCF.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:02:45 -!- karlw [~kwinterl@tsunami.OCF.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 08:27:32 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:51 ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:52:11 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #scheme 08:54:13 muks [~muks@misha.banu.com] has joined #scheme 08:55:10 is the TeX source for R5RS available somewhere? the R6RS website has a link to its sources, but i'm unable to find the sources for R5RS 09:00:57 I have the source somewhere, but not handy at the moment, I'm afraid. 09:03:19 kar8nga [~kar8nga@i-64.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 09:06:03 alaricsp [~alaric@mukhadvaram.gurukuli.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:09:39 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 09:09:57 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:17 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has joined #scheme 09:12:14 found r5rs-doc from the debian repositories 09:12:20 that has the tex sources. thank you. 09:12:23 -!- muks [~muks@misha.banu.com] has left #scheme 09:22:37 -!- wisepumpkin [~pumpkin@pool-72-70-64-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:29:48 araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #scheme 09:29:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 09:29:48 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 09:39:05 wingo [~wingo@219.Red-88-0-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:43:03 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:43:53 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 09:54:33 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:00:44 masm [~masm@2.80.140.39] has joined #scheme 10:02:38 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:04:58 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-147-115.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 10:12:56 githogori_ [~githogori@host-82-135-20-190.customer.m-online.net] has joined #scheme 10:13:27 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@host-82-135-20-190.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:14 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-91-230.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 10:14:41 githogori_ [~githogori@host-82-135-20-190.customer.m-online.net] has joined #scheme 10:14:41 -!- githogori_ [~githogori@host-82-135-20-190.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:18:28 -!- wingo [~wingo@219.Red-88-0-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:18:50 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:24:22 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@i-64.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:16 -!- githogori [~githogori@host-82-135-20-190.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:43 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@mukhadvaram.gurukuli.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:49:24 mmc1 [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 10:52:40 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27124157.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:51 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.73] has joined #scheme 11:01:00 alaricsp [~alaric@geniedb.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 11:10:40 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:35 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:21:20 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 11:24:10 mmc [~michal@cs27124157.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 11:27:32 xwl [~user@117.79.235.222] has joined #scheme 11:30:33 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:54 chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-189-209.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 11:31:19 ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 11:35:34 -!- xwl [~user@117.79.235.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:37:04 tupi_ [~david@186.205.37.15] has joined #scheme 12:04:51 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@nat/cisco/x-zshoovrxuyhqyuts] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:57 -!- Caleb-- [thedude@bzq-79-177-32-253.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:15:47 tokam [~tokam@p57B8FBD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:16:13 hi, what do write in the contract if a procedure expects an other procedure? 12:17:48 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:18:30 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 12:24:27 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:11 ASau [~user@89-178-104-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 12:38:38 (map add1 `(1 2 3 4)) would be something like (map (num -> num) `(num)) 12:38:39 pseudo-like 12:42:00 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has joined #scheme 12:44:10 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e012c18.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 12:57:32 add1 is a procedure that takes of time num and returns of type num 12:57:54 Why ` ? 12:58:49 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d6b3798-CM00222d6b3795.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:00:06 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d6b3798-CM00222d6b3795.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:00:06 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@unaffiliated/mohamdu] has joined #scheme 13:01:26 type* 13:01:31 Oh, listof 13:05:04 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e012c18.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 13:06:48 yep found this, thx. 13:07:35 -!- gavv\w [~gavv@178.236.241.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:12:55 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.178.216.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:02 -!- tokam [~tokam@p57B8FBD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 13:15:06 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-116.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:19:30 _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 13:20:33 philo [4618e3da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.24.227.218] has joined #scheme 13:22:14 milsem [~milsem@213.226.63.32] has joined #scheme 13:23:16 wingo [~wingo@219.Red-88-0-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:27:20 gavv\w [~gavv@webm.ntmr.ru] has joined #scheme 13:37:22 any good graph (as in boost graph) lib in scheme ? 13:48:46 wisepumpkin [~pumpkin@pool-72-70-64-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:50:33 -!- milsem [~milsem@213.226.63.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:57:14 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:01:17 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e012c18.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 14:01:26 philo: search for graph on http://wiki.call-cc.org/chicken-projects/egg-index-4.html 14:01:39 There are some graph-related extensions there. 14:02:59 thanks 14:03:11 are those only compatible with chicken ? 14:06:46 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 14:07:40 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:11:35 -!- wisepumpkin [~pumpkin@pool-72-70-64-241.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:18:09 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27124157.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:49 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:27:03 mmc [~michal@cs27124157.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 14:31:45 Caleb-- [~caleb@bzq-79-179-36-197.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 14:34:01 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.114.245] has joined #scheme 14:35:31 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:36:08 tokam [~tokam@p57B8FBD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:36:25 hi, how to do a non type specific equals=? in scheme 14:36:52 to compare numbers with numbers, symbols with symbols etc... 14:37:21 sry it's equal? 14:46:13 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:26 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:54:39 wisepumpkin [~pumpkin@17.101.89.205] has joined #scheme 14:56:39 femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 14:57:03 jensn [~ceres@c-83-233-145-103.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #scheme 14:58:33 dsmith-work [~user@66.178.229.162] has joined #scheme 14:58:51 http://g.imagehost.org/0293/Untitled_11.jpg 14:59:02 anybody know's the author? 14:59:18 knows, even 15:01:21 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:12:04 davazp [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:16:49 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-124.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:16:51 homie` [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-124.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:18:57 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:19:18 -!- 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[~michal@cs27124157.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:01:24 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 19:07:55 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:08:49 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:14:43 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-116.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:03 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-116.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:22:47 Blkt [~user@net-93-151-226-225.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #scheme 19:23:44 good evening everyone 19:44:43 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:17 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:50:22 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:51:46 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:47 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has 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[~jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 20:17:07 aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 20:22:50 imran_sr [~imran@75-18-254-4.lightspeed.uncyca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:32 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:18 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has joined #scheme 20:30:19 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 20:43:38 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:44:04 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:50:02 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:30 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:50 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:59:32 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #scheme 21:00:04 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-90-210.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:01 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:35:21 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-90-210.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 21:43:53 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #scheme 21:45:25 jcowan, is in the R7RS yet? 21:46:16 No. 21:46:37 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-228.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:40 I need to file a ticket for it. 21:47:42 Do you consider it stable? 21:48:06 Well, hurry up! Here's a reference implementation: , and some tests: 21:48:07 http://tinyurl.com/23jv2nd 21:48:07 http://tinyurl.com/2af9mu5 21:49:53 (I suppose a reference implementation could be much shorter -- (define (ceiling-quotient n d) (ceiling (/ n d))), &c. -- but this one does only exact integer arithmetic for exact integer inputs.) 21:50:08 (I mean: for exact integer inputs, this one does only exact integer arithmetic.) 21:52:44 It's stable enough to throw into an argument, anyway. 21:52:49 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53:00 -!- dsmith-work [~user@66.178.229.162] has left #scheme 21:53:46 I ask about stability because if it's stable, I'll paste it to the Web site and give it wiki markup. 21:55:52 -!- aisa [~aisa@173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: aisa] 21:56:30 Well, the document doesn't exactly specify what I implemented, which is defined on arbitrary real arguments. 22:06:20 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 22:06:20 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:20 -!- gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:37 Riastradh: http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/DivisionRiastradh 22:15:47 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:17:01 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:52 gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:18:24 Riastradh: do you take any view on the three issues in your Issues section at present? 22:20:52 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:10 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 22:21:37 What I implemented, as an experiment, is that the operations accept any real numbers, and if either operand is inexact, the result is inexact, unless the numerator is exactly zero, in which case the quotient and remainder are exactly zero. 22:22:01 jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 22:24:32 Your markup is a little funny. The `Related' section turned into an `R5RS' section and an `R6RS' section, the latter of which seems to cover the remarks about Common Lisp, too. The formula that should have been (2'') turned into `2. ... ', with n substituted for d, yielding the incorrect claim that -|n / 2| <= r < |n / 2|. 22:24:47 Oh, maybe the wiki interpreted the primes as italics. 22:24:52 (the double-prime, that is) 22:25:12 Yes, of course. 22:26:15 Oops! 22:26:17 what's the R7RS status on namespace management / modules / foo ? 22:26:28 I updated the document locally a while ago, but did not upload it. 22:26:46 (To reduce confusion, I substituted n (numerator) for a, and d (denominator) for n, throughout the document.) 22:27:19 Arrgh. 22:27:28 I also corrected some errors. 22:28:17 Fare: http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/wiki/ModulesShinn has been accepted. 22:28:21 The old one is now division.txt.~1~ and the new one is division.txt, so you can run them through diff to see the changes. 22:28:33 Oh well. Upload and I can re-wikify the markup. 22:29:05 Done. 22:29:39 jcowan: nice, so WG1 has some minimal module system. 22:29:48 Are there plans for something more from WG2 ? 22:31:50 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:32:03 Pending this decision, WG2 had not yet voted for anything additional, but I just put it on the RevoteDocket. 22:32:29 WG1 modules permit both in-line and out-of-line code. 22:33:16 Obvious candidates for WG2 (assuming that WG2 decides to do anything) would be phasing, versioning, modules-as-syntax, and first-class run-time modules. 22:33:38 Riastradh: thanks 22:39:38 I'm also concerned how to mix and match between all the existing module systems, or not. 22:40:08 Can they be unified, or are we into more fragmentation and dilution 22:40:16 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-27-34-218.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:45:27 I think that every existing module system can easily be modified to accept ModulesShinn modules. 22:46:19 Top-level modules from other systems can also be easily converted to ModulesShinn format as well. 22:47:07 jcowan, typo: `...only in floating- point contagion rules.' 22:48:00 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-90-210.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:12 Changes merged and typo fixed. The latter occurred because you put a hyphen at the end of a plain-text line. 23:00:26 Riastradh : what do you think about having `(-remainder a 0)' yield `a' ? 23:00:33 The `Related' section is still a little funny, as is property (2'') of the R6RS's DIV0 and MOD0. 23:01:17 Apparently it is turning my PRIME SYMBOLs back into apostrophes. 23:01:21 how do or don't WG1 libraries map to files? 23:01:33 I divvied up "Related" by hand for greater clarity and linkage. 23:01:53 does WG1 have no low-level macros? 23:02:11 is syntax-case out of WG1? 23:03:00 Yes to both questions. 23:03:11 WG2 will have explicit-renaming, and maybe implicit-renaming too. 23:03:18 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:46 then the question of interaction with the module-system will crop up... 23:03:53 Indeed. 23:04:35 I admit I'm curious as to how WG2 modules will or won't interact with existing implementations' module systems. 23:04:46 e.g. Racket, scheme48, etc. 23:04:53 Implicit-renaming is to explicit-renaming as sc-macro-transformer is to rsc-macro-transformer. 23:05:16 mehmet [~mehmet@88.252.51.178] has joined #scheme 23:05:18 AFAIK it is a trivial variant of Scheme48 23:05:25 -!- mehmet is now known as decaf 23:05:49 Racket should be able to handle it by adding another #lang type, but Racket modules won't be portable to R7RS. 23:07:26 My personal view is that explicit phasing puts too much burden on the programmer, and that implicit phasing is the Right Thing. 23:07:38 (Actually ,my personal view is that only syntax-rules macros should be used at all.) 23:07:52 Racket modules obviously won't be portable to WG1 Scheme. What about WG2 Scheme? 23:08:23 syntax-rules only is awfully restrictive. 23:08:24 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:03 how does implicit phasing work? 23:09:21 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-116.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:47 can you obviously sort out the definitions topologically so that everything happens in the correct phase? 23:10:05 Omit the phase declarations and let the system figure it out. This means you cannot use the same name with different definitions in different phases, but I consider that to be a Good Thing. 23:10:08 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-116.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:10:46 jcowan, you can't do that in general 23:11:11 i don't have time right now to go into detail, but you can write programs where implicit phasing can't possibly get the right answer 23:11:21 I'm sure. 23:11:45 The question is whether such programs accomplish anything that can't be done by similar means. 23:13:10 even with "implicit" phasing, comes the question of isolation (or not) of side-effects between phases. 23:13:24 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 23:15:27 Implicit phasing doesn't work. 23:17:07 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-116.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:19:33 Explicit phasing doesn't put any more burden on the programmer than a module system does in the first place. 23:19:55 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: A poorly written script will replace me shortly.] 23:21:50 -!- dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:23:26 ski, what is a useful application of (-remainder n 0) = n? 23:24:16 It violates the property that |r| < |d|, and masks legitimate division by zero errors. 23:25:08 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:17 i interpret `|r| < |d|' as `r' being a (specific) representant of the equivalence classes modulo `d'. modulo zero, each number lies in its own equivalence class 23:26:26 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e012c18.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 23:26:29 (zero is the greatest element in the divisibility ordering) 23:26:32 jcowan, typo: `...provided that this choice of q induce_d_ an r...' The `d' should not be there. 23:27:06 Oh, are you being subjunctive again? I'll change it to "induces". 23:27:37 *jcowan* prints Abdulaziz's thesis to look at this weekend. 23:27:59 `Induces' is a typo too. The word `this' could be correctly replaced by `the', though. 23:29:31 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 23:30:36 jcowan: is specifying a module/library <-> filesystem mapping on the plate for WG2? This something that hinders real-world interoperability of R6RS libraries across implementations... 23:31:01 i'm not sure how useful this is, but `(lambda (sequence) (lambda (n) (sequence (-remainder n d))))' would describe a mapping from `|Z / (d * |Z) -> A' to `|Z -> A', handling the case when `d' is zero sensibly 23:31:03 ski, what I said is that |r| < |d|, though, not that r is the canonical (least nonnegative) representative of n + dZ in Z/dZ. In any case, what is a useful application? 23:32:51 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-199.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:33:00 I see. So you want (lambda (n) (-remainder n d)) to be the natural projection of Z onto (a choice of canonical representatives for) Z/dZ. 23:33:23 i was (not very successfully) arguing for changing the `|r| < |d|' condition into something slightly weaker 23:33:41 yes 23:33:56 rotty: ATM there isn't even an agenda for global changes between WG1 and WG2 (as opposed to adding modules) 23:34:06 i'm not fully convinced this is a good idea, but that's what i was considering, yes 23:35:42 With what you described, though, choosing n is not obvious, though. Intuitively it seems that, by any positive n, and every division operator but the ceiling one, the remainder of zero should be zero; that is, Z \ni 0 |---> 0 \in representatives of Z/dZ. 23:36:00 Rather, the projection of zero, not the remainder of zero. 23:37:53 It might be aesthetically nice for (lambda (n) (-remainder n d)) to be the natural projection, but it's still not obvious to me that there are useful applications of this. 23:38:20 tokam1 [~tokam@p57B8F77C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 23:38:44 Well, it's not quite the natural projection, though. It's the composition of the natural projection with a choice of representatives. 23:39:03 There are arguments for "clock modulos", though, in which the 0 modulus class is represented by n instead of 0. 23:39:16 I don't suppose WG2 has anything like an object system. 23:39:18 does it? 23:39:21 Clocks, for example. 23:39:28 Fare: No. 23:39:30 What's an `object system'? 23:39:41 *Fare* is ashamed of having accepted WG2 voting powers and not following the action closely. 23:39:47 Unless, of course, the WG decides to have one. I thought that was too much of a hot button and didn't even include it. 23:39:59 it probably is. 23:40:27 Well, at least you voted in this week's election, unlike members whose surnames begin with H, S, or W. 23:40:32 How about introducing (perhaps a simplification of) units and signatures? (It might not be necessary given a sufficiently crafty macro system, but I don't know exactly what the implementation in Racket requires, beyond that it is probably too hairy.) 23:40:36 -!- tokam [~tokam@p57B8FBD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:58 Riastradh: What's a suitable base document to work from? 23:41:37 You could start with the Racket reference. 23:45:08 I want a nice way to write a program that works in any group, or in any ring, or in any monad, or with any kind of map, or any kind of set, without some horrible, insufficiently extensible dispatch model imposed by an `object system'. I also want to be able to say `here's how you construct a free module given a scalar ring', or `here's how you implement a map given a set'. I can use records to do this, but the notation of units and signatures w 23:45:25 I also want the IRC protocol not to suck, and maybe a pony would be nice too. 23:47:54 *jcowan* sends Riastradh a pony. 23:48:56 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:05 Uh oh -- I'm not in Manhattan any more; I switched coasts. I'd better call up Joe and let him know to forward any ponies he receives to California... 23:50:52 how does it suck? 23:51:38 My message a moment ago was truncated, wasn't it? 23:52:26 Here's what the last sentence was: I can use records to do this, but the notation of units and signatures would be much nicer. 23:52:48 The truncation is a bug inherent to the (stupidly designed) IRC protocol. 23:53:13 *ski* reappears after hunting through O'Keefes 1984 draft Prolog standard for how that handled remainder .. 23:54:10 ski, how about separate procedures LEAST-POSITIVE-RESIDUE and LEAST-NONNEGATIVE-RESIDUE? 23:54:37 (define (least-positive-residue n d) (if (zero? d) n (euclidean-remainder n d))) (define (least-nonnegative-residue n d) (if (zero? d) 0 (euclidean-remainder n d))) 23:55:31 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:55:31 (Riastradh : in ".. choosing n is not obvious ..", was `n' the numerator or the denominator ?) 23:55:45 n is the numerator; d, the denominator. 23:55:49 ok 23:56:32 The property that (foo/ n d) = (values (foo-quotient n d) (foo-remainder n d)) is obvious, and the property that |r| < |d| (or, that 0 <= r < |d|) is easy for anyone to understand without the slightest background in algebra. 23:56:55 (i asked because in your earlier version of `division.txt', you had `a',`n' be the numerator and denominator, respectively) 23:57:28 (Yes...sorry about that. I switched to n and d for mnemonic clarity and to avoid confusion with English's indefinite article.)