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It takes care of those details. 02:41:09 I also have a paper-bag-popping wand somewhere. 02:41:16 Wait, Mitch has that wand. 02:41:36 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:55 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:45:33 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-13-97.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 02:46:58 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-29-91.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:47:33 -!- EMMA [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:47:44 Lizard46 [~Lizard46@173-166-26-206-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:40 timj_ [~timj@e176195252.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:54:45 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:54:59 pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 02:55:58 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176193145.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:56:10 EMMA [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 03:13:13 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:13:55 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 03:14:43 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-40-104.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:18:06 offby1: I thought it solved them by removing the tentacle. permanently, like. 03:18:47 ASau, most Scheme systems install a number of signal handlers, but don't reserve more than a couple of signals for their internal needs. Example: MIT Scheme uses SIGALRM for thread timer interrupts, and SIGQUIT for low-level keyboard interruption. The other signal handlers it installs deliver information to Scheme, but aren't really `reserved'; e.g., on SIGSEGV, MIT Scheme will usually enter a debugger. 03:23:16 -!- luz_ [~david@186.205.37.15] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 03:26:07 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:27:32 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 03:32:44 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41:58 -!- aisa [~aisa@c-68-35-167-179.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:44:10 -!- abstractj [~shadow_wa@189-47-226-111.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:51 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:01:48 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:05:07 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 04:13:16 ldunn_ 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the connection] 10:10:30 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 10:20:54 -!- ldunn [~ldunn@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:33 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:22:05 kingless [~kingless@c-68-57-44-80.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:23:46 momentum [~momentum@unaffiliated/concentrate] has joined #scheme 10:23:56 what are the main limitations of guile? 10:24:06 i'm trying to debate whether to port TeXmacs to lua 10:24:11 or to just use guile 10:25:24 wingo is the resident guile developer 10:26:04 -!- kingless [~kingless@c-68-57-44-80.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:02 momentum: perhaps now would be the time to wait. 10:28:15 Let's see how emacs evolves in the next few years... 10:28:58 momentum: i would stick with guile; if you really want users to be able to extend with lua, i had a summer-of-code student that implemented lua on top of guile's vm 10:29:19 i haven't merged in his work yet, but hopefully within a month or so 10:29:56 momentum: check guile 2.0's NEWS, if you haven't already... 10:30:07 details a number of limitations with 1.8, and the fixes 10:30:24 http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=guile.git;a=blob;f=NEWS 10:30:49 *wingo* not a neutral observer tho ;) 10:32:53 stop by #guile if you decided to stick with guile 10:34:08 lua's luabind is amazing for binding objects 10:34:16 last i recall, guile's ffi was complicated 10:34:39 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:07 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 10:36:57 it's still a bit complicated, but if there is something different guile should do, we can do that 10:37:43 i love lua's elegance of passing everything on the stack 10:37:53 it's almost like "we provide a mechanism; you define the ffi" 10:39:07 (btw i'm not attacking guile) 10:39:12 it just so happens taht TeXmacs is using guile 10:39:25 should TeXmacs use chicken, gambit, or anything else, i'd be ask about tha tinstead 10:48:27 is that different from guile's scm_call_n ? 10:48:37 not in 1.8, i don't think 10:48:54 and it would be nice for multiple values to also come on a stack rather than in a heap-allocated obj... 10:49:07 (they are on the stack, internally to guile) 10:49:10 does guile do that (yet) ? 10:49:11 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:49:36 yes, guile returns multiple values on the stack 10:49:59 but the C api just returns a single value, which might be a "values" object if nvalues != 1 10:51:06 jao [~user@81.39.213.106] has joined #scheme 10:57:22 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:04 Nils^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has joined #scheme 11:03:31 hi, sorry for double-question with #guile, but I just tested this problem in an online interpreter and its there too: 11:04:00 (symbol? '3k0)=> #t . (symbol? '3m0) => #t . (symbol? '3l0) => #f 11:04:02 mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 11:04:11 can anyone confirm this with whatever scheme implementation? 11:07:46 3l0 parses to a number in at least in guile and ikarus 11:07:47 Chicken says #t for all, gauche says #f for the latter 11:07:48 its really strange. 'l is #t, 'l0 is #t '3l is #t. But not '3l0 11:09:03 it's the same as with (symbol? '42) 11:09:08 scheme48 gives an error on all 11:09:14 Error: unsupported number syntax 11:09:22 Which is pedantically correct AFAIK 11:09:25 i don't think numbers were a legal symbol starting character in r5rs, so that is the correct one 11:09:28 Since symbols may not begin with a number 11:09:37 indeed 11:09:40 42 is a number so I can expect this 11:09:53 guile> 3l10 11:09:53 3.0e10 11:09:54 Chicken tries to parse a number and if it fails, treats it as a symbol 11:09:58 but 3m0, 3k0, 3a0 .. all works. except l 11:10:02 I think Gauche uses the same strategy 11:10:19 Maybe the l is some kind of type specifier in their number syntax 11:10:30 rudybot: eval (symbol? '|3l0|) 11:10:31 ski: ; Value: #t 11:10:41 rudybot: eval (symbol? '3l0) 11:10:42 ski: ; Value: #f 11:11:03 rudybot: eval 3l0 11:11:04 aoh: your sandbox is ready 11:11:04 aoh: ; Value: 3.0 11:12:31 rudybot: eval (symbol->string '|3l0|) 11:12:31 ski: ; Value: "3l0" 11:14:21 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 11:15:24 since I can only use numbers and symbols as hashtable-identifier this is highly inconvenient. 3l0 is an important value for me 11:16:18 PurplePanda [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has joined #scheme 11:17:17 you can probably use (string->symbol "3l0") as a workaround 11:18:02 or prefix the symbol with some letter to make them follow the correct symbol syntax 11:19:08 Nils^ : possibly guile supports symbol quoting or escaping, like Racket above ? 11:20:05 aoh: string->symbol is the exact cause of my problem. 11:20:47 ski: whatever I have to do I have to formulate exceptions ... *grml*. I hope there is a better solution in the end 11:21:08 *ski* isn't really sure what Nils^ is trying to do .. 11:21:41 ski: easy 11:21:53 *wingo* not sure either 11:22:20 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:23 I get all kind of string with values like "2a3" or "300" or "1by" and they are feeded in a hashtable where the enduser value is stored 11:22:45 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 11:22:54 and "3l0" is just one of ~400 values 11:24:03 .. and what is the problem ? 11:24:25 that 3l0 or 4l0 or any .l0 breaks the system 11:24:34 because string->symbol fails 11:25:31 Nils^: What implementation are you using? The ones I use allow arbitrary strings to be passed into string->symbol. 11:26:47 yes, string->symbol should never fail on strings 11:26:58 what makes me wonder is that I test (number? (string->number STRING)) before 11:27:28 cky, sjamaan: I use guile and all digit strings are not possible with string->symbol 11:27:49 all digit and l in between, that is... 11:27:52 When exactly does it fail? 11:27:58 Nils^: Wanna bet? Try (symbol->string '#{0}#) 11:28:09 (symbol? (string->symbol "3l0")) returns false? 11:28:18 Or even (symbol->string '#{3l0}#) if you want. 11:28:27 sjamaan: #f, yes. its a number 11:28:32 o_O 11:28:38 guile> (symbol? (string->symbol "3l0")) 11:28:38 #t 11:28:46 I found that hard to believe ;) 11:28:50 version? 11:28:50 guile> (symbol? '#{3l0}#) 11:28:51 #t 11:28:55 1.8.7. 11:29:00 same here 11:29:04 ditto 11:29:53 well I was wrong here, its #t 11:30:01 voila 11:30:09 So again, when exactly does it give an error? 11:31:32 -!- momentum [~momentum@unaffiliated/concentrate] has left #scheme 11:31:44 O_o 11:32:32 the problem is that converting all digits (and L) to a symbol returns #{234}# as symbol representation which can not be feeded in a hashtable which has '234 as identifier 11:32:43 so in this words: 11:32:50 abstractj [~shadow_wa@187.82.65.213] has joined #scheme 11:32:59 Nils^: Um. '234 is a number, right? '#{234}# is a symbol. 11:33:07 Nils^: So, you're trying to mix apples with oranges. 11:33:10 cky: absolutly correct. 11:33:13 cky: no wait 11:33:17 heh 11:33:35 cky: for that case I test if its a number before and feed a number in the hash which works with 234 11:33:53 rudybot: eval (+ '2 '3) 11:33:53 ski: ; Value: 5 11:33:55 bbl 11:34:04 Nils^: I think it's best if you stick to using _only_ symbols as keys in your hash table. 11:34:12 Nils^: You'll save yourself much pain that way. 11:34:14 oops 11:34:17 Not yet 11:34:31 string->symbol "3m0" => '3m0 but string->symbol "3l0" => #{3l0}# 11:34:34 that is the problem 11:34:46 That's no problem 11:34:48 Nils^: It's not a problem. It's just how those symbols "look". 11:34:52 Nils^: They're both symbols. 11:34:59 What sjamaan said. 11:35:00 The external representation of the symbol 3l0 is #{3l0} 11:35:22 Try (symbol->string '#{3l0}) 11:35:25 Nils^: You can write '#{3m0}# if you want, and it's identical (eq? wise) to '3m0 11:35:33 cky: (only symbols is simply not possible. I use number systems >base10) 11:35:34 That should show you the true characters inside the symbol's name 11:35:47 Nils^: I disagree. 11:36:06 Nils^: This whole "number systems >base10" is your real problem 11:36:16 Computers store numbers in base 2 11:36:29 base10 is just how they're entered by humans and printed back out by the computer 11:36:39 it is the the most fundamental concept in my program because it deals with humans that want >base10 11:36:53 Sure 11:37:03 Then make it possible for humans to enter them base>10 11:37:05 before going on this road: thanks for your input, I am sure that I can solve the symbol/number problem now 11:37:11 But still store them as proper numbers 11:37:18 Agree with sjamaan 100%. 11:37:24 If they're numbers, store them as numbers. 11:37:35 Use number->string with the appropriate base when displaying them. 11:38:00 Nils^: For instance, humans who prefer to enter numbers in hex can do #x0a and it still gets stored exactly the same as if they were entered as 10 or #b1010 11:38:17 rudybot: eval (number->string 100 16) 11:38:18 ski: ; Value: "64" 11:38:27 rudybot: eval (number->string 100 36) 11:38:27 ski: error: number->string: expects type <2, 8, 10, or 16> as 2nd argument, given: 36; other arguments were: 100 11:38:29 I know number->string 11:38:45 36 is bigger as Z so its likely not implemented 11:38:50 bbl 11:38:54 (for real, this time :P ) 11:39:36 Heh, some implementation allows bases of any value between 2 and 36. 11:39:41 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-40-104.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 11:39:42 I guess Racket ain't such a one. 11:40:01 rudybot: eval (number->string 100 -10) 11:40:02 ski: error: number->string: expects type <2, 8, 10, or 16> as 2nd argument, given: -10; other arguments were: 100 11:40:02 I was wrong, 36 is z 11:40:28 Guile 1.8.7 is even funnier: you can do (number->string 100 36) but you can't roundtrip it back. :-P 11:40:36 cky: if its like guile with this one it allows to specify any radix 11:40:48 cky: but in reality works only to F as digit 11:41:07 but this is not a problem, I wrote my own system which works fully to base36 11:41:40 i mean (string<->number num radix) versions 11:41:46 Nils^: Okay, that's fine. But still. If they're numbers, please store them as numbers. Just do the conversion on display. 11:41:56 then why not store numbers internally, and only use the base representations with numerals, for the interface ? 11:42:02 What ski said. 11:42:05 Jinx, BTW. 11:42:40 I have to consider this seriously, but I have to look first that I can do the digit manipulation which is currently done via string manipulation with real math then 11:43:41 if you want to get the digits of a number, in any base, you would probably use `quotient' and `remainder' 11:43:57 Or the R6RS function that returns both in one go (IIRC). 11:44:05 (Not that Guile has that, I don't think.) 11:44:28 *cky* is very partial to multiple return values when it makes sense. 11:44:44 Like, modf (in libm) is one example that very sensibly has two return values. 11:45:44 (yeah, i would have said `quotient/remainder', except i didn't find that on a quick search in R[56]RS, when i looked for it, a few days ago) 11:45:55 *nods* 11:46:48 but out of curiousity: what is "l"? Why is it special? 11:47:28 something like e or pi? 11:47:30 Nils^: Same reason why f is special. 11:47:43 i would guess it is short for "long" or something similar 11:47:55 ok 11:47:56 Or d, e, or f. :-P 11:48:06 Uh, I said f already. :-P 11:48:33 well, disjunction is idempotent .. 11:49:39 :-) 11:51:10 s, f, d, and l are short, single, double, and long precisions, apparently. See R5RS section 6.2.4. 12:09:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E279AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:12:17 good. it now works as expected. thanks all 12:13:29 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.116.44] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:22:11 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 12:24:38 -!- EMMA is now known as emma 12:32:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-111.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:32:49 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:34:01 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:41:54 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 12:46:44 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p57B5BD09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:54:36 -!- Nils^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has left #scheme 13:22:52 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.75.229] has joined #scheme 13:26:31 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-238.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:27:07 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 13:35:52 -!- wingo [~wingo@AMontsouris-551-1-78-206.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:36:11 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:12 Vinzent [~Vinzent@188.17.77.143] has joined #scheme 13:37:53 Hello. Can you tell me how I can return 2 values from the function? 13:38:22 femtoo [~femto@95-89-197-196-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 13:38:47 look up VALUES 13:40:46 Yes, thank you. 13:49:35 *stis* swear to never use defmacro in guile again 13:51:16 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E279AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.11/20101012104758]] 13:51:23 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E279AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:01:04 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-125-216.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:15:35 -!- Vinzent [~Vinzent@188.17.77.143] has quit [Quit: Vinzent] 14:17:56 stis: that's a good resolution :-) 14:17:59 -!- PurplePanda [~pyro@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has quit [Quit: PurplePanda] 14:34:04 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-217-17.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:34:15 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-217-17.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:44:27 homie 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[~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-50-148.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 17:48:31 mickn [~mickn@unaffiliated/mickn] has joined #scheme 17:50:05 -!- wingo [~wingo@AMontsouris-551-1-78-206.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:51:04 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e065b44.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 17:53:53 krusta [b753b779@gateway/web/freenode/ip.183.83.183.121] has joined #scheme 17:54:16 hi 17:54:32 i want to know if there is an openGL implementation in scheme? 17:55:07 there is in racket 17:55:21 can u guide me to the link? 17:56:28 http://racket-lang.org/ 17:56:33 -!- ski [~slj@c-8911e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:51 -!- jimrees_ [~jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:56:54 http://docs.racket-lang.org/sgl/index.html?q=opengl 17:57:54 thanx 18:01:34 -!- mmc [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:55 mmc 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