00:01:48 futilius [~otheruser@cow9.org] has joined #scheme 00:04:29 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:14:10 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-148-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:15:37 offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 00:15:44 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:15:44 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 00:24:06 -!- jcowan [~John@p-68-237-136-96.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:29 masm [~masm@bl19-148-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 00:36:40 I have another question here (its the second post) http://paste.lisp.org/display/115399#1 00:49:42 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 00:49:49 FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-44.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:53:40 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-83.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:54:21 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:00:06 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:02:56 -!- museun [what@c-98-252-142-252.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:05:37 -!- pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:49 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 01:11:27 PascalHunger: no idea. it's a very very broad field. you'd have to apply much tighter criteria for that to make sense 01:16:08 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-148-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:25:28 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:31:48 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:32:27 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-160-138-213.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:34:02 I was wondering if anyone could help me figure these out? http://paste.lisp.org/display/115399 (only the second and third posts) 01:37:52 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:43:24 -!- Lizard46 [~Lizard46@173-166-26-206-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 01:51:43 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:51:46 -!- FareWell is now known as Fare 01:52:11 FareWell [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 01:53:16 hlj_ [~hlj@c-8911e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 01:53:41 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:55:52 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@jonr5.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:56:38 -!- ski [~hlj@c-8911e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:04:26 Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-160-138-213.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:07:38 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:10:28 -!- FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-44.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:11:51 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 02:17:18 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@adsl-99-160-138-213.dsl.euclwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:31 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:27 pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 02:27:37 -!- pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:17 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #scheme 02:47:21 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:49:10 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:50:11 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:52:41 timj_ [~timj@e176192100.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:54:13 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:55:58 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176194229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:05:40 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:14:53 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:15:02 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:25:34 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 03:33:46 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:33:46 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #scheme 03:34:37 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 03:35:03 minion: memo for Lizard46: have a look at the new annotations to http://paste.lisp.org/display/115399 ; if you cannot wait for realtime discussion on irc, you may use the newsgroups instead. news:comp.lang.scheme 03:35:03 Remembered. I'll tell Lizard46 when he/she/it next speaks. 03:35:22 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:59 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 03:41:20 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:42:01 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 03:53:04 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:54:43 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:56:28 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:56:28 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58:25 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 03:59:53 FurnaceBoy: a scheme to asm compiler sounds like a good idea heh 04:00:36 There are several, such as MIT Scheme, Larceny, and Ikarus. 04:02:09 Riastradh: how is performance compared to racket? 04:20:09 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 04:24:18 so I guess scheme is not taught at mit anymore as their first intro course? 04:27:35 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 04:36:11 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:36:16 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:36:26 I don't know how the performance of those four Scheme systems compares. I have used Ikarus never, and Larceny very little, and I have never compared the performance of MIT Scheme with that of Racket. I imagine that, say, floating-point arithmetic is much faster in MIT Scheme than it is in Racket. 04:36:51 Racket's macro expander is probably faster than MIT Scheme's. 04:39:59 Racket has a fancier, and probably usually faster, garbage collector than MIT Scheme. If you are clever you can trigger quadratic-time behaviour in Racket's GC which will not happen with MIT Scheme's, but this doesn't usually happen in real programs. 04:44:58 I see Riastradh 04:48:38 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:50:21 Where? Are you outside of his window? 04:51:02 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 04:57:39 But the blinds are shut...maybe they're not very good blinds. 04:58:22 heh 05:00:54 All I want to do is be a good programmer 05:01:09 and when I use PHP and other dynamic languages I feel like a failure 05:01:16 all I want for christmas is a "good programmer" brain plugin! 05:01:32 if you use PHP, you're a failure indeed 05:01:50 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:02:11 Riastradh, what are those quadratic-time behavior? Something to do with finalizers? 05:02:38 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:02:42 Fare: I use python more now 05:02:49 Sort of, Fare -- ephemerons. 05:02:51 but I am a fan of smalltalk as well. 05:03:07 In the web world my boss really just wants to use PHP Fare 05:04:04 PascalHunger, wrong job 05:04:38 Fare: I am trying to change it. 05:04:55 Really the only way I could make scheme work in the web world is to get my own clients 05:05:20 own clients??? You mean, customers? 05:05:48 well in the web dev world we usually call them clients ....I have never heard them referred as customers 05:09:06 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #scheme 05:13:42 to me, clients are lynx, netscape, ie, firefox, chrome, etc. 05:18:08 what is your native language Fare? 05:20:53 French 05:35:44 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:36:38 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:36:42 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:41:50 Maxel [~Maxel@99.149.172.166] has joined #scheme 05:56:15 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:57:32 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@99.149.172.166] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:58:37 Maxel [~Maxel@99.149.172.166] has joined #scheme 06:07:16 Fare: yes, in english most firms and businesses say clients ....not customers, there is an on going relationship 06:07:25 Fare: france or canada? 06:07:47 France 06:09:59 http://hop.inria.fr/usr/local/lib/hop/2.1.1/weblets/home/articles/hop-perfs/article.html how in the world is plt schemes so looow? 06:09:59 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/262z7y5 06:10:08 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:11:08 or are those charts wrong/ flawed/ reading them wrong? heh 06:11:24 how can racket scheme be slower then php and perl? does not make sense 06:30:53 -!- klovett [~klovett@c-67-180-97-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: klovett] 06:30:54 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:33:23 -!- hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:40 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 06:33:50 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:37:28 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:38:06 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:14:10 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:21 araujo [~araujo@192.100.124.156] has joined #scheme 07:14:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@192.100.124.156] has quit [Changing host] 07:14:21 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 07:18:36 wingo [~wingo@81.39.169.13] has joined #scheme 07:22:34 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 07:40:58 mmc [~michal@cs190095.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 07:55:58 -!- wingo [~wingo@81.39.169.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:59:55 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:04:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.216] has joined #scheme 08:06:11 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176192100.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:28 -!- mmc [~michal@cs190095.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:13:42 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:14:17 Blkt [~user@93-33-133-105.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 08:15:11 good morning everyone 08:18:29 <`micro> good morning. 08:24:28 -!- rat_ [~quassel@c-24-22-21-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:58 mmc [~michal@cs190095.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 08:26:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 08:35:24 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-58-93.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:39:57 masm [~masm@2.80.148.9] has joined #scheme 08:45:39 Good morning 08:45:54 any of you ever use the racket web server? 08:50:25 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-114-244.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 08:50:52 -!- xwl_ [~user@nat/nokia/x-wvsevbpfbkuxcgug] has left #scheme 08:52:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:53:33 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 09:26:45 incubot: scheme48 might be more portable (on i386), I don't know, 09:26:45 Error: unbound variable: scheme48 09:26:45 incubot: plt-scheme is a bit problematic (it seems to be "winlin"-only), 09:26:45 incubot: that's why if I use scheme, I use chicken. 09:26:47 Error: unbound variable: plt-scheme 09:26:52 I don't know about MzScheme, but MIT Scheme uses nested closures (although it wouldn't be a problem here), and I recall hearing that Chicken uses flat environments, but I could be hallucinating. 09:27:21 Oh, damn. 09:27:49 Why are you talking to a bot? 09:28:07 *ASau`* remembers a girl that spent ca. 40 min talking to Emacs ELIZA. 09:28:11 :) 09:28:44 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 09:29:53 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 09:34:52 Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 09:38:02 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:39:15 ogamita [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:49:43 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:50:32 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@99.149.172.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:55 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:18 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 09:52:43 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:52:51 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 09:53:52 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 09:54:02 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:55:07 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 10:14:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 10:43:06 alvatar [~alvatar@236.232.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:09:15 ASau`: I know many geeks who did as much 11:13:47 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:11 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:24:48 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 11:37:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:39:04 davazp [~user@83.55.183.181] has joined #scheme 11:44:43 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:46:42 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.183.181] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:51:57 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 11:52:59 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 12:08:58 Lizard46 [~Lizard46@173-166-26-206-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 12:15:11 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:30 ashawley [~user@72.237.48.100] has joined #scheme 12:43:05 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:44:39 mmc1 [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 12:52:12 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:52:43 mmc1 [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 12:52:55 -!- Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 12:57:16 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:02:43 foof: ping 13:04:10 hypercube31 [~hypercube@66.90.18.146] has joined #scheme 13:08:21 Can someone else respond to this question i have dealing with conditions and using the guess.ss teachpack: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115399#6 (it starts at the second and third post) 13:08:21 Lizard46, memo from pjb: have a look at the new annotations to http://paste.lisp.org/display/115399 ; if you cannot wait for realtime discussion on irc, you may use the newsgroups instead. news:comp.lang.scheme 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:52 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 13:25:09 -!- yorick [yorick@unaffiliated/yorick] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:45:59 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 13:52:30 tizoc: pong 13:55:11 incubot: welcome back 13:55:14 And you're welcome to make something of that particular thing... It's cute to play with the MCI interface -- you can even play movies. 13:55:23 rudybot: seen klutometis 13:55:23 *offby1: klutometis was seen in/on #scheme two weeks ago, saying "and, of course, implementing CLRS' pseudo-code in scheme is comical; "mutation, mutation, mutation!" is their creed. i can resort to shadowing, but still.", and then klutometis was seen in/on #scheme two weeks ago, saying "they seem to aver that, after deletion, certain nodes find themselves in a schroedingerian red-or-black or black-or-black superposition; only to be observed 14:01:34 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:17:13 PascalHunger: maybe it's faster, maybe it's not. You'd have to benchmark on your own task. Speed is almost never the most important criterion anyway. 14:20:36 yorick [yorick@unaffiliated/yorick] has joined #scheme 14:22:00 Can someone please help me figure this out: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/topics (its the first topic on the site) 14:22:40 cpressey [~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:25:26 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:25:26 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:25:57 -!- yorick [yorick@unaffiliated/yorick] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:27:43 foof: hey. Question about chibi-scheme strings, is there any way to know how many bytes are required to store it? (and not the length in characters) 14:27:55 (this is for interfacing with C) 14:29:10 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:30:57 FurnaceBoy: did you see that benchmark? 14:31:26 drdo` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 14:32:07 tizoc: from the C side, sexp_string_length 14:32:09 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Quit: Reblooting] 14:32:52 foof: perfect, thanks 14:32:52 davids [~davids@186.205.48.47] has joined #scheme 14:33:16 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:33:46 from the Scheme side, if using utf-8 strings, not currently since string-length returns the number of characters (though you could write a pure Scheme function to count the bytes required by utf-8) 14:34:31 foof: thats ok, I can stub sexp_string_lenght and use that (like I'm doing for sexp_make_string) 14:35:38 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:36:01 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 14:36:06 ASau [~user@77.246.230.186] has joined #scheme 15:00:31 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:54 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:09:01 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-28-179.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:05 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-23-130.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 15:10:34 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:13:30 erik__ [~erik@ip24-255-34-109.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 15:14:02 -!- erik__ [~erik@ip24-255-34-109.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:14:07 -!- ogamita [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:32 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-255-34-109.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 15:14:32 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@ip24-255-34-109.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:14:32 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 15:15:56 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:46 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 15:22:05 ASau: "\"winlin\"-only" is bogus. Probably more than 80% of anyone involved in racket is neither on win nor on lin. 15:26:13 araujo [~araujo@213.28.64.66] has joined #scheme 15:26:13 -!- araujo [~araujo@213.28.64.66] has quit [Changing host] 15:26:13 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:27:11 pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 15:28:06 Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 15:36:38 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:36:47 davazp [~user@83.55.183.181] has joined #scheme 15:40:16 drdo`` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 15:42:16 -!- drdo` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42:54 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:46:23 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #scheme 15:47:09 (no one in #arc so asking here). Does i!foo look up keyword foo in hash i or what? 15:47:45 It's not a good idea to ask Arc questions here. 15:47:45 isn't arc kindof the anti-scheme? 15:48:23 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.186] has joined #scheme 15:48:44 -!- drdo`` is now known as drdo 15:49:04 if it's anti-scheme, then he just needs to negate the answers he gets in here 15:50:59 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.230.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:16 yorick [yorick@unaffiliated/yorick] has joined #scheme 15:57:10 hehe 15:59:32 pumpkin: you of all people should know there are many kinds of conjugacy 16:01:31 -!- yorick [yorick@unaffiliated/yorick] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:07:57 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:08:01 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:09:36 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-107-54.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 16:16:11 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:30:54 -!- cpressey [~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #scheme 16:37:59 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:46:13 githogori [~githogori@48.sub-75-208-189.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme 16:46:14 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:50:05 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:24 -!- Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 17:03:38 hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:05:01 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:20:01 -!- Lizard46 [~Lizard46@173-166-26-206-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 17:26:55 -!- pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:45 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 17:41:55 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:18 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:46:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:48:02 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 17:49:36 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 17:56:24 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:59:26 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 18:00:40 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27412.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:01:53 -!- WLen [~Len@77.127.28.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:02:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:03:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 18:04:56 wingo [~wingo@229.Red-79-151-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:08:07 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:11:57 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:15:28 evening schemers :) 18:18:44 sup wingo 18:18:51 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 18:20:45 greets 18:21:19 wingo, ur the guy that is maintaining guile right? 18:21:27 or am i mistaken 18:21:33 i am that guy indeed 18:21:40 cool, hows that going lately? 18:21:43 along with ludovic 18:22:08 it goes well, there keep being blockers for 2.0, and i keep naively believing it's right around the corner :) 18:22:23 but fun, & getting better all the time. 18:22:38 haha ya 18:22:41 true 18:22:48 thats a good thing 18:23:29 wingo, does it have an sqlite part built into it yet? (i tried some external lib a while back but it was broken) 18:23:54 no i think there is only an external lib 18:23:58 dunno if it works 18:24:13 i would like to use it within the next couple weeks tho 18:24:26 i need to rewrite something on my web site from python to scheme ;) 18:24:35 wingo, ok cool ill be checking up again next time i think of it in several weeks and seeing what you think of it 18:24:39 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:24:39 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:24:56 wingo, id really like to see something that would support a very simple MVC architecture for the web with it 18:25:08 wingo, maybe make it into an apache module or something 18:25:18 i think chicken and racket both have better web stories atm 18:25:28 wingo, true 18:25:29 and apparently nginx is the new hotness, btw ;) 18:25:40 ah, i havent played with that yet but ill check it out 18:25:56 i use apache and mod_lisp but i need to change, apache uses too many resources 18:26:05 guile 1.8 is lightweight in comparison :P 18:28:22 mod_lisp = :( imo 18:29:16 really? i found it relatively straightforward 18:29:26 better than in-process, for my uses 18:29:38 would you say fastcgi = :( also? 18:29:43 oh i got it working, just a bit of a pain i guess.. its just so much easier to use something of a normal scheme with cgi/fastcgi these days 18:29:58 fastcgi actually has great credit being given to it lately 18:30:52 ill have to def check out nginx cause i was looking for something with a small footprint for embedded system stuff that could do fastcgi and handle stable conditions at higher loads 18:30:55 fastcgi allows for long-lived processes, no? maybe i misunderstood it 18:31:30 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.183.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:47 its been quite a while since i messed with fast cgi but it has many perks, basically its main purpose is to not create the process every time, but instead hold it running for many hits 18:32:10 right; but i thought mod_lisp's way of doing that was more understandable 18:32:26 but perhaps that's just my limited capacity to hold too many things in my mind ;) 18:32:33 fastcgi has a bit of a nasty API 18:32:42 eh, maybe its just me but the crappy docs and the outdated broken-ness of the mod_lisp (now i think you have to use mod_lisp2) is what turns me off 18:32:52 And I don't think anybody's bothered to write a plain Scheme fastcgi lib 18:33:01 scgi is a simpler alternative 18:33:18 hypercube31: what kind of embedded system? 18:33:23 hypercube31: like, how big, etc? 18:33:26 sjamaan, i cant remember much, but there were reasons in the past i went with fastcgi instead of scgi... (?) 18:33:49 FurnaceBoy, big enough to need a reliable system on a distributed network 18:33:57 Perhaps because it's not used much, and likely your scheme has no scgi implementation? 18:33:58 hypercube31: any specifics? 18:34:03 Or maybe your webserver doesn't 18:34:09 FurnaceBoy, high end non fail type.. and sorry no specs 18:34:12 sjamaan: scgi, thanks for the suggestion 18:34:43 sjamaan, i dont have a specific type of scheme im even playing with the last two months, been doing other things lately :/ 18:34:52 Chicken had an scgi egg for release 3, but nobody has ported it yet to 4 18:35:00 https://anonymous:@code.call-cc.org/svn/chicken-eggs/release/3/scgi/scgi.scm 18:35:01 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2g5dypb 18:35:02 sjamaan, cool 18:35:16 That's the pure scheme implementation. Pretty short :) 18:35:55 And I guess it can be shorter 18:36:41 sjamaan, ya that is pretty small, i love the compactness of scheme 18:36:51 http://gitorious.org/tekuti/tekuti/blobs/master/tekuti/mod-lisp.scm is what i use 18:37:22 heh @ "Sorry bub" 18:38:46 :) 18:39:09 wingo, btw i was speaking more from a newbie standpoint of lisp about getting mod_lisp* to work.. back when i didnt know anything it was a bit of a nightmare, i had to rewrite the tutorial to get it working for friends so i could get it straightened out and straight forward 18:39:31 hypercube31: heh, cool 18:39:34 wingo, thus why i ended up just going with scheme and cgi for the time being 18:39:48 mod_lisp doesn't actually have anything to do with lisp, fwiw 18:39:59 it's just a protocol 18:40:09 cgi has the advantage of being uncomplicated and instantly picking up changed code 18:40:14 wingo, thats true but the docs are the part that doesnt make it accessable to the newbie :/ 18:40:24 sjamaan: yeah, but i keep a lot of cached state in my code 18:40:25 sjamaan, true 18:40:44 wingo: Obviously it also has the disadvantage of being damn slow ;) 18:40:55 and do erlang-style loops so that if things are redefined, the next loop picks up the new definition 18:41:14 yeah, but you need code for that 18:41:20 cgi does that by itself 18:41:21 hypercube31: why not a web server in scheme, so you can run scheme code straightforwardly? 18:41:34 (assuming straightforwardly exists) 18:41:34 true 18:41:45 mario-goulart: i was wondering that 18:41:45 18:41:49 :) 18:41:50 mario-goulart: that's what i am thinking too 18:42:02 hence my question about the nature of the embedded system ;-) 18:42:03 mario-goulart: do you serve static files with scheme? 18:42:12 wingo: yes 18:42:15 We do on call-cc.org 18:42:21 ah cool. 18:42:28 no problems with slashdottings, etc? 18:42:43 We haven't been slashdotted yet 18:42:50 you need to troll more, clearly 18:42:57 "but we can dream" :) 18:43:03 But we've been reddited (/r/scheme) 18:43:56 mario-goulart, i cant do that because the constraints arent made by me as far as the system im running on.. otherwise i would 18:44:06 mario-goulart, im working in an apache env. 18:44:19 hypercube31: ah, ok. 18:44:21 You can always proxy it 18:44:33 mario-goulart, well atleast for the big server side.. the small server can run other stuff.. as long as its reliable 18:44:47 smaller server aka embedded client machine 18:45:32 I see. 18:46:05 ya complications of the business world :/ not allowing me to get everything i want 18:47:27 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 18:49:40 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:50:11 hypercube31: here where I work we are considering using awful in embedded systems, as a replacement for the busybox http server + CGI. 18:50:35 nifty 18:50:37 eh, spiffy 18:50:43 And awful! 18:50:57 Considering embedded system a slow processor with not much memory and linux. 18:52:24 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:55 the busybox http server actually runs chicken programs via CGI, so migrating to awful/spiffy is not very painful. Since awful can serve in-memory pages, se can save some I/O. 18:58:02 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:00:58 mario-goulart, i cant find a link for 'awful' ? 19:01:12 Jeez, our Google juice is low 19:01:18 :( 19:01:25 wiki.call-cc.org/egg/awful 19:02:23 sjamaan, thanx 19:02:45 yw 19:03:35 can awful do vmsplice? 19:03:38 that would be fun 19:03:50 does that work with sockets, i wonder 19:04:27 *sjamaan* has no idea what you just said 19:04:42 splice(2) 19:04:45 vmsplice(2) 19:04:53 man: no entry for vmsplice in the manual. 19:05:04 are you on a bsd, perchance? 19:05:13 :) 19:05:16 :) 19:05:22 ah, found it on die.net 19:05:58 AFAIK awful currently runs on all platforms Chicken runs on 19:06:35 sure, but that might well speed up the typical write-file-to-port idiom, if the platform supports it 19:07:15 spiffy does use sendfile though 19:07:26 ah cool 19:07:35 sjamaan: there are too many awful things on the internet. 19:07:38 the sendfile egg emulates sendfile where not available using mmap or whatever other means the OS offers 19:07:52 mario-goulart: somethingawful.com ? 19:07:54 :) 19:07:56 i see, that is a more useful formulation of that syscall 19:07:57 :-) 19:08:49 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:17 Of course, awful is just an option that aggregates a couple of eggs. You can do anything awful does with spiffy and some tweaks. Spiffy is the real thing when we talk about web server and chicken. 19:10:33 ack. 19:10:54 But awful wouldn't be awful without all the other eggs like spiffy-request-vars and the various db integrations 19:12:00 Yeah, that's where the awfulness comes from. 19:12:42 Without that, it would just be spiffy 19:13:04 Indeed. Spiffy is the actual server. 19:15:33 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:20:02 -!- Fare [~Fare@64.119.159.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:27:24 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-107-54.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:33:52 sjamaan | Jeez, our Google juice is low <--- the entirely generic name doesn't help 19:34:12 yeah, I guess so 19:34:25 chicken gets #4 though, i'm suprrised. 19:34:26 "chicken scheme awful" works 19:34:45 haha, i don't want to know what 'awful chicken' dredges up 19:34:52 :) 19:35:00 a bunch of bad restaurant reviews? or more likely, http://kfc.com ... 19:35:14 well NONE of the front page is yours, that's for sure... 19:35:49 'awful scheme' gives you #7 19:38:27 sjamaan: that looks like a pretty good pile of doc. nice! 19:38:37 Thank mario-goulart :) 19:38:43 *sjamaan* just pasted the link 19:38:53 mario-goulart++ 19:39:11 * mario-goulart is now known as: super-mario-goulart 19:39:17 :) 19:39:19 LOL 19:39:26 :) 19:40:45 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 19:42:26 I'm glad it causes a good impression, FurnaceBoy. :-) 19:43:22 Although the name doesn't. :-) 19:43:49 true. 19:47:39 mmc1 [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:48:16 lbc [~lbc@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 19:52:03 mmc2 [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:53:28 -!- nome [~user@c-98-249-30-223.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:53:56 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:06 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:23 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 19:58:26 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:57 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-188.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:00:29 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 20:02:50 josephholsten [~josephhol@ip68-0-123-16.tu.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 20:02:50 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@ip68-0-123-16.tu.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:19 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-188.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:04:14 aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 20:10:53 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 20:11:57 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-42-120.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:17:13 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:46 -!- mmc2 [~michal@cs27120227.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:40 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:41 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27412.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:56 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:30:02 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27412.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:30:04 -!- lbc [~lbc@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: lbc] 20:30:40 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27412.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:04 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:31:18 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:31:48 mmc1 [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 20:34:36 eli: Are you saying that most Racket devs use Solaris, BSD, and Plan 9? ;-O 20:36:56 its probably an even split between OSX and ubuntu 20:38:26 < eli> ASau: "\"winlin\"-only" is bogus. Probably more than 80% of anyone involved in racket is neither on win 20:38:34 nor on lin. 20:38:49 cky, eli is exadgeratting 20:39:02 samth: Oh. :-) 20:39:23 of the dozen or so core devs, I'd say at least 5 use linux primarily 20:39:54 Who are the core racket devs? 20:40:04 *nods* 20:41:01 pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 20:41:03 mario-goulart, I don't have a precise count, but here's a list of people I know have commit access: 20:42:28 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:46 matthew flatt, robby finder, matthias, eli, jay-mccarthy, me, ryan culpepper, sstrickl, carl eastlund, kevin tew, jon rafkind, stamourv, casey klein 20:42:56 yes? 20:43:01 :-) 20:43:09 Thanks, samth 20:43:10 oh 20:43:12 :) 20:43:33 of those, i think 6 use primarily linux 20:43:43 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 20:45:03 *nods* 20:45:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 20:46:38 racket has a lot of devs. 20:46:45 *mario-goulart* is envy 20:47:01 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:47:59 Envious. :) 20:48:52 Yes, thanks, franki^. :-) 20:50:40 mario-goulart: and samth missed a couple ;) 20:50:52 ! 20:51:02 For THE CORE? 20:51:18 depends what you call the core 20:51:21 -!- hypercube31 [~hypercube@66.90.18.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:51:46 if you mean things in the main racket distribution, then yes, there are at least 4-5 more 20:51:47 I mean, not counting the extension libraries from planet. 20:52:11 yeah, so at least 4-5 more 20:52:32 Amazing. 20:52:47 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:52:52 right, that's missing mike sperber, james swaine, steven jaconette, john clements, and a few occasional contributors 20:53:25 jao [~user@31.Red-79-155-158.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:57:20 -!- githogori [~githogori@48.sub-75-208-189.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:35 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs27121126.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:29 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:03:39 -!- ashawley [~user@72.237.48.100] has quit [Quit: End of day] 21:06:07 las_2 [~Administr@dhcp-129-64-153-24.dorm.brandeis.edu] has joined #scheme 21:06:21 is it possible to create lists of strings in scheme? 21:07:47 anyone alive over here? 21:07:58 (list "hello" "world") 21:08:20 how would I add to the list in that case? 21:08:31 I cant just cons to it 21:08:40 (cons "another string" (list "hello" "world")) 21:08:57 either a) you are consing onto the wrong end or b) you expect cons to be mutable 21:09:08 or c) something else 21:09:20 -!- FurnaceBoy [~FurnaceBo@bas2-toronto10-2925235772.dsl.bell.ca] has left #scheme 21:10:01 the problem is that once I cons one word onto the beginning of the list 21:10:08 if I cons another one it will replace the previous one 21:11:16 say I have 21:11:16 v 21:11:17 (define words (list "a" "r" "asd" "w")) 21:11:22 (cons "word" words) 21:11:27 cons is not mutable 21:11:28 '("word" "a" "r" "asd" "w") 21:11:30 it will return a new list 21:12:03 so how would I make it work in that case? 21:12:19 (set! words (cons "word" words)) 21:12:38 -!- bremner [~bremner@yantan.tethera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:13:15 youre awesome :) 21:14:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:15:20 bremner [~bremner@yantan.tethera.net] has joined #scheme 21:18:34 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 21:19:17 teaching programming must be difficult 21:20:11 I think _un_teaching is what's difficult ;) 21:22:10 heh 21:22:26 I would think its not that hard to teach people why state is bad, just give them a huge application (like apache or something) and introduce some bug thats directly related to mutable state, then ask students to fix the bug 21:22:43 then give them some functional program with few/no mutable state, introduce a bug, and have them fix it 21:22:50 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-133-105.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 21:23:15 do you teach, jonrafkind ? 21:23:23 no, im just a grad student 21:24:03 "Stateful tarpit" 21:26:26 I just refactored some of my code to be more functional, its actually sort of annoying. before I created objects X, Y, Z and to some of them I passed in a Font object to their constructor, but now I don't let them store the Font object, instead I pass the Font object to their action methods, but this is unfortunate because only X and Y want a Font object, Z doesn't 21:26:57 so it just ends up cluttering the API 21:30:07 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:03 schmir [~schmir@p54A91A02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:36:40 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91A02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:45 kuribas [~user@d54C2AC52.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:48:26 -!- hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:28 schmir [~schmir@p54A91A02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:08:38 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C2AC52.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:10:35 Lizard46 [~Lizard46@pool-74-104-111-159.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:15:07 -!- wingo [~wingo@229.Red-79-151-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:06 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91A02.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:50 -!- pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:10 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:56 githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:47:12 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@24-247-70-44.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:28 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:49:49 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 22:50:10 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:16 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:14 Hi Lizard46! How about your homework? 23:15:07 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #scheme 23:15:16 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 23:15:23 *pjb* bbl 23:19:24 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #scheme 23:21:09 cky: I'm not exaggerating, if you count where was the source written, around the neighborhood of 80% was written on an os that is not linux and not windows. Linux is most of the rest, and practically noone is using windows for development. 23:23:34 eli: Okay, I believe you. Chances are you're talking about MacOS, but, I thought MacOS was a relatively recent target platform, so surely 80% couldn't have been on it, right? 23:24:05 eli: And given you didn't take my bait on Solaris, etc., I didn't expect the 80% platform to be any of those either. But again, perhaps I'm wrong. 23:24:38 -!- rmrfchik [~rmrfchik@linuxhacker.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:24:38 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 23:24:39 MacOS is not really recent. OSX is. 23:24:47 Ah, I see. *nods* 23:25:12 rmrfchik [~rmrfchik@linuxhacker.ru] has joined #scheme 23:25:56 In any case, I was addressing ASau's flame -- he's talking about some bsd problems, and throwing some "winlin only" accusation is very misleading. 23:26:21 *nods* Totally. 23:26:30 (And we used to have a bsd build machine -- just happens that not enough people are crazy enough these days to use it...) 23:26:34 OSX is not really recent either it has its roots dating back 1988 and even earlier for the kernel. 23:26:55 pjb: What, PLT had OSX support dating back to 1988? ;-O 23:26:56 And don't confuse target and development platform. 23:27:06 pjb: My comment about recent was about PLT/Racket's support, not the OS itself. 23:27:20 cky: I'm not sure about PLT. clisp ran on NeXTstep in 1991. 23:27:25 ok. 23:27:28 pjb: Developing on a platform you're not targeting is like flying blind, or cooking without tasting. 23:27:58 For example, DOOM was developed on NeXTSTEP, but targetted MS-Windows, which made both technical and commercial sense. 23:28:01 pjb: i.e., it can be done if you're masochistic, but is it really a sane thing to do? 23:28:23 Only later were NS versions of DOOM difussed for the NS fans. 23:28:35 When the target is MS-Windows yes. 23:28:47 Right, but see, there's an NS version they could test with. That makes some difference. 23:29:04 But if they have _only_ a Windows version with no ability to test on NS then things are likely to be more painful. 23:29:10 Now of course, the dependencies were light, for a game. 23:29:17 You only need raw graphics. 23:29:33 For other kinds of applications it might be different. 23:30:38 But this is a technique that is often used, when the target computer is much less powerful than the development computer. 23:30:47 Also, you can taste with simulators. 23:30:47 *nods* 23:31:07 Right, and these days you have virtual machines, etc. 23:31:50 Once upon a time I had to writea program in MS Basic for PC (I'm not even sure it was MS-DOS). But I used MS Basic on my Macintosh to do it, patching Quickdraw to get the same display primitives as on the PC. 23:32:07 It went nicely. 23:32:29 Nice, nice. :-) 23:32:34 Emulation ftw. 23:33:08 It can also have some advantage, like being able to find different kinds of bugs. Different systems have diffferent sensibililties... 23:33:19 Totally. *nods* 23:36:51 adadglgmut [~steve@cpe-71-79-173-65.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:36:53 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:40:04 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 23:47:59 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.148.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:49:41 pumpkin [~copumpkin@user-142hbak.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 23:50:19 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:52:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:35 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]