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01:48:18 -!- nasloc__ [tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:48:52 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:59 offby1` [~user@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has joined #scheme 01:49:18 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 01:49:27 -!- offby1 [~user@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has quit [Changing host] 01:49:27 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 01:49:32 <_Pb> ah, srfi-22 01:51:14 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@70-36-245-104.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:54:04 -!- _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:02:16 hm, code generated by a GPL'd macro would have to be GPL licensed wouldn't it 02:02:23 since that would be a derivative work 02:02:25 right? 02:02:52 *offby1* stares blankly 02:09:34 *FurnaceBoy* pushes a paperclip around on the desk 02:10:46 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:10:57 i wish gambit's syntax-case implementation wasn't 60,000 lines long 02:11:14 i might have a better chance of fixing the bug otherwise :( 02:19:11 klovett [~klovett@adsl-69-226-233-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:20:59 60k? 02:21:05 yes 02:21:19 i don't understand it at all either 02:21:27 must have been generated somehow 02:21:41 it's got all kinds of variables with crazy names 02:21:46 huh 02:21:53 like %%r1472 02:21:59 lol 02:22:25 my toy lisp's expander + syntax-rules is a whopping ~550 lines 02:22:38 the real problem with it is that it doesn't support #!rest #!optional or #!key 02:22:47 other than that it seems to work Ok 02:23:03 i just need a separate syntax rules i guess 02:23:30 this one is syntax case, which is better, but syntax-rules would be enough 02:24:42 yeah, I still haven't bootstrapped so no syntax-case, but still, 1000x longer is surprising 02:24:58 yea it's generated 02:27:17 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-12-197.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:55 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-12-197.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 02:29:17 i found alexpander but it's GPL so i can't really use that 02:29:22 cause i don't want to use that license 02:29:55 riaxpander is an easy read 02:30:15 psyntax made my eyes bleed 02:30:23 lol 02:30:42 riaxpander is chicken? 02:31:06 oh it's for a few different ones 02:31:55 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-12-197.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:10 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-12-197.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 02:39:37 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:53 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 02:49:11 ???? psyntax seems to provide an r6rs environment 02:49:15 crazy 02:50:03 lot of work 02:52:40 riaxpander offers both 02:52:50 timj__ [~timj@e176193129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:52:51 no idea how to get it to work 02:52:55 at least on gambit 02:53:13 if i get chicken working in windows i might just use that 02:53:34 but it doesn't really matter that much, i mostly just want to play with a bunch of neat stuff lol 02:54:02 like alex's match library 02:55:10 ! 02:55:26 seems i found a solution 02:56:19 i can load the expander from black hole (gambit's module system) when compiling 02:56:23 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176194173.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:56:43 i thought i would have to compile w/ black hole's compile functions which made really big exes 02:56:48 so this is good news :) 02:58:49 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:03:43 -!- klovett [~klovett@adsl-69-226-233-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #scheme 03:06:08 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:15:16 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-12-197.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:35 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-12-197.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 03:16:05 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@rrcs-24-39-38-198.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:16:23 de quoi laissez faire esti? 03:26:51 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.112.194] has joined #scheme 03:34:04 doesn't seem to work w/ my code :S 03:47:54 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:48:21 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@rrcs-24-39-38-198.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 03:49:02 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:50:14 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:56:48 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:00:45 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:16 wingo [~wingo@cpe-76-166-198-241.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:01:27 greets, schemers 04:01:31 Riastradh. 04:01:37 i have been reading your words on the internets. 04:02:00 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:03:19 http://mumble.net/~campbell/tmp/division.txt specifically. 04:03:34 there are many procedures there. 04:11:35 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:21:46 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:11 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:35:15 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37:33 Hi, wingo. 04:37:53 heya Riastradh 04:43:01 I got your mail. I'll process it tomorrow; too busy right now. 04:43:31 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 04:44:30 cool 04:48:44 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-29-210.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 04:49:27 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-35-83.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:59:54 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:14 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 05:17:32 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:23:10 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 05:30:18 -!- fod [~fod@92.251.255.5.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:31:18 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-13-148.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 05:33:06 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-12-197.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:44:54 -!- rbarraud__ 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[~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 08:40:42 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-4-29.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:10 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-167-121.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 08:45:18 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:49:04 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-20-76.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 08:50:58 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-167-121.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:56:01 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.112.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:15 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/niko] has joined #scheme 09:06:55 cow-orker [~mw@c541745C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 09:09:18 -!- Delita [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:09:53 Delita [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 09:21:35 -!- cow-orker [~mw@c541745C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has left #scheme 09:24:05 -!- githogori [~githogori@adsl-66-123-22-146.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:47 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-170-134.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 09:37:50 how can I write a piece of syntax for desrcibing nestedness? like (indent (indent (indent (print "foo")))) for describing that "foo" should be indented by 4x? 09:39:51 I tried to do that by describing indent by a let which should binds in each nesting level to its above indentation variable + 1 and by binding the display/print functions to a lambda which reads uses that indentation variable 09:40:47 I guess I haven't understood how scheme does scoping/binding 09:41:34 probably damn easy, but for me it is a riddle which I try to get solved since 8 hours. 09:52:20 jao [~jao@213.174.102.202] has joined #scheme 09:54:39 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 09:55:00 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:13 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:02:23 -!- micro_ is now known as micro- 10:03:50 -!- micro- is now known as micro_ 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:48 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 10:13:09 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-47.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:13:29 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-47.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:16 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-47.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:16:26 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-143-47.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:26:03 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@140-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 10:34:26 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 10:34:41 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-20-76.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:37:45 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[~Ian@host109-154-210-141.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:04:13 currently Im going through problem 5.3.3 of mits 6.001 online course where it asks for an expression to evaluate (()) I tried (cons ()()) but it gives a wrong answer .. I tried (cons nil nil) and got a right one online but scheme on my computer gives an error 13:06:04 karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 13:06:58 Did you mean: /expression to evaluate *to* (())/ 13:07:18 Jafet:yes 13:07:49 (cons ()()) isn't a valid expression in scheme. (cons nil nil) should be a correct answer 13:08:02 What do you mean by "gives an error"? 13:08:14 Ive just done it 13:08:47 the error is unbound variable nil 13:09:00 Well, it means what it says. 13:09:40 nil is conventionally a name for the expression '(). You could use (define nil '()) in your scheme program 13:10:11 Jafet: yes I could but would not that be defeating the purpose 13:10:33 Oh, you're the by-the-book type 13:10:41 You could also use (list), then 13:10:42 when (cons ()()) works 13:10:55 lol ..:p 13:10:56 It does not. 13:11:19 just did 13:12:20 Jafet:the question asks you not to use list 13:13:36 Well, many scheme implementations let () mean the same thing as '(), but it's nonstandard 13:15:15 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-168.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:15:23 http://pastebin.com/U02NtRdS shows what I tried 13:16:03 ...and mit-scheme is one of them. 13:17:02 Jafet: I am using mit-scheme 7.7.90 13:17:44 If you want to use that extension, fine. Any other questions? 13:18:36 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-136-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:19 not at the moment thanks .. was just wondering why I wasnt getting the same answers 13:19:28 In r5rs, neither nil nor () are expressions for the empty list. Some scheme implementations allow them to be. 13:20:17 I thought that nil was a pure lisp thing so I didnt even think to go there 13:20:33 it's pretty common 13:20:43 but not all lisps do it 13:20:55 and the answer box is only small so I wasnt thinking about defining anything 13:21:28 it can be confusing though, because with scheme #f false and everything else include () is true 13:21:40 but in CL nil is false and everything else is true :S 13:21:51 and nil == () 13:22:03 It stops being confusing once you figure out that scheme and common lisp are distinct languages... 13:22:10 :P 13:22:17 There's an unlimited number of ways to get nil, anyhow. (cdr (#t)) is one 13:22:36 it's not an issue at all 13:22:57 can always test with null? instead of using the list as the predicate 13:23:15 actually the code might be clearer that way 13:25:56 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 13:27:11 ok then on the same subject I have just tried to evaluate to (1 2 (3)) 13:27:34 with (cons 1(cons 2(cons (3)nil))) 13:27:52 (3) is not a valid expression, either... 13:27:55 on my comp and it works but the online tutor says its wrong? 13:28:03 sorry '(3) 13:28:04 (cons 1 (cons 2 (list 3)) 13:28:16 jyaan: no. 13:28:17 oops 13:28:19 asks that you dont use list 13:28:21 lol 13:28:25 oh it deos 13:28:27 does*? 13:28:30 Why not just say '(1 2 (3))? 13:29:08 its a set of questions for cons 13:29:14 just don't try to modify literals 13:29:33 what did it say, no list ? 13:29:40 only conses? 13:29:59 '(1 2 (3)) doesnt work either 13:30:21 yeah no lists please use cons 13:30:25 You really have to give more detail about your failures. 13:31:30 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:41 Jafet: I tried on my comp both (cons 1(cons 2(cons '(3)()))) and (cons 1(cons 2(cons '(3)nil)->after defining nil and both work 13:32:00 on the online tutor they both fail no reason given 13:32:09 what's wrong with (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons '(3) '()))) 13:32:14 it works perfectly fine for me 13:32:49 same here which is why I ask coz I must be missing something 13:32:58 hm 13:33:03 He doesn't understand what constraints his course exercises have, so he's randomly guessing. 13:33:04 well, is nil defined? 13:33:10 yea 13:33:12 I'm not randomly guessing for you. 13:33:30 scheme doesn't have a nil keyword, we just use '() 13:33:32 Jafet:not at all 13:33:47 I have a clearly defined problem 13:33:59 and what's the error?= 13:34:19 oh no reason given 13:34:23 that's crazy 13:34:33 something that works on my computer doesnt work on the online tutor 13:34:42 no reason given 13:34:57 must be a bug, i'd probably do a bug report 13:35:03 usually it does not this time 13:35:04 and that's a pretty basic thing too 13:35:07 So, what restricted variant of scheme does the online program accept? 13:36:06 I would assume the course being mits 6.001 computer science course they use the mit-scheme they point you too 13:36:26 So why are you not allowed to use quote or list? 13:36:46 The only explanation is because they've remove them to force you to use other expressions. 13:37:03 yea i agree 13:37:04 the question asks you to use cons and please dont use list 13:37:14 and no quote? 13:37:21 or it didn't say that 13:37:25 quote is not mentioned 13:38:35 list is an extended version of cons but it adds a () at the end of the list .. thats my understanding anyway ;s 13:39:38 to be honest I have done problems after this one .. its just bugging me thats all 13:39:56 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 13:41:49 -!- karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:44:25 well then how about this 13:44:40 (reverse (cons (cons 3 '()) (cons 2 (cons 1 '())))) 13:44:41 lol 13:44:58 :p 13:45:24 anyways should be able able to use '(3) 13:45:41 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:45:51 unless the whole point was making you create that manually 13:45:52 :P 13:46:14 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:46:25 heh going to try that 13:46:37 yea i guess you could 13:46:47 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 13:46:49 but it's not much different than before 13:47:36 lol that it 13:48:17 that worked? 13:48:23 yeah it did 13:48:24 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:48:27 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:48:51 funny than (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons '(3) '()))) wouldn't 13:49:01 that's gonig to work in _any_ scheme 13:49:04 or lisp for that matter 13:49:42 this online comp is almost as pendantic as I am omg ..:D 13:49:55 haha 13:58:18 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:58:24 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:00:56 _Pb [4b83c2ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 14:12:02 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:15:33 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:00 karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 14:22:05 -!- karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:14 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 14:33:52 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-168.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:33:55 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:28 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.99.67] has joined #scheme 14:37:08 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-168.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:40:01 FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-168.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:43:16 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-168.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:46:42 OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:47:15 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:59:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:10:10 -!- _Pb [4b83c2ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:13:26 -!- rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:15:30 xwl [~user@123.115.113.250] has joined #scheme 15:17:07 -!- madmuppet [~infidel@203-211-81-150.ue.woosh.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:39 kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:25:15 rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 15:38:55 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-136-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 15:40:32 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-131-145.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:47:56 -!- klovett [~klovett@adsl-69-226-233-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: klovett] 15:48:53 -!- FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-168.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:22 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:54:59 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 16:02:30 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-199.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 16:08:51 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 16:09:11 _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 16:13:55 FurnaceBoy [~FurnaceBo@ns2.smartgames.ca] has joined #scheme 16:24:42 -!- xwl [~user@123.115.113.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:25:18 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35:31 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:35:43 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-165-198.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 16:38:42 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-170-134.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:32 tonyg [~tonyg@pool-108-7-163-164.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:43:15 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:43:52 <_Pb> why isn't named let* standard? 16:44:35 does it even exist? 16:45:01 i dont think it would work the way you think it would 16:45:06 <_Pb> why not? 16:45:49 because of the way bindings are made 16:45:49 <_Pb> sorry, if this is really complicated i'll go and try to glean an answer from TSPL 16:46:07 yea sounds kind of weird 16:46:27 named let is syntactic sugar for letrec 16:46:33 because if you're using let* then that means you're using things that were defined in the list before 16:46:46 <_Pb> jyaan: but then you're redefining when you recur, right? 16:46:51 <_Pb> teurastaja: yes 16:46:54 but when you "call" the named let, you'd have put all those arguments in 16:47:04 letrec* does exist but thats another story 16:47:19 well i guess you could 16:47:27 named let* would make sense for initialisation only 16:47:33 you could always just make a macro that does what you intended 16:47:38 <_Pb> sjamaan: yeah, exactly 16:47:52 <_Pb> a macro would work, yeah 16:47:59 And it would be useful indeed 16:48:24 wouldnt named let* cause shadowing problems? 16:48:30 i guess it would work 16:48:37 teurastaja: why? 16:48:51 but a lot of the time let* is just expanded into plain lets 16:48:56 let* doesn't cause shadowing problems 16:49:02 Why would named let*? 16:49:20 <_Pb> why would named let* cause problems that letrec* doesn't? 16:49:31 <_Pb> also teurastaja thanks, i didn't realize there was a letrec* 16:49:54 not everything has it 16:50:01 <_Pb> ah 16:50:05 chicken doesn't 16:50:07 <_Pb> oh well, i'm just going to use let, then 16:50:35 gambit doesn't eitehr, but gambit is missing some by default like let-optionals, let-values, etc 16:50:44 so it's not a surprise there :P 16:50:47 :) 16:50:48 nevermind. but named let* would syntactic sugar for letrec* no? 16:51:09 It could be 16:51:11 as named let is syntactic sugar for letrec 16:51:46 That analogy wouldn't hold. 16:51:53 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 16:52:31 (let foo ((a1 v1) ...) body ...) -> (letrec ((foo (lambda (a1 ...) body ...))) (foo v1 ...)) 16:52:43 Changing `letrec' to `letrec*' wouldn't affect anything. 16:54:29 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 16:54:56 chandler: It could expand to (letrec* ((a1 v1) ... (foo ((lambda (a1 ...) body) a1 ...)) 16:55:29 eh, (letrec* ((a1 v1) ... (foo (lambda (a1 ...) body))) (foo a1 ...)) 16:55:52 IJP [~Ian@host109-154-210-141.range109-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:56:08 Yes, but that doesn't fit the description that teurastaja gave. :-) 16:56:20 true 16:56:22 i was guessing 16:57:01 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 16:57:46 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:57:55 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:58:56 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:41 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:00:45 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:02:00 wingo [~wingo@adsl-75-28-21-123.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:02:48 <_Pb> so, I have to do this, then? (let ((x 3) (y 0)) (set! y (+ x 1))) 17:03:17 That's not a named let 17:03:19 Just use let* 17:03:22 <_Pb> erm, imagine that is a named let, and it recurs 17:03:42 That wouldn't work because it would set! y every time 17:03:50 <_Pb> right 17:04:00 <_Pb> one second, it is possible that i am just stupid 17:04:02 (let loop ((x 3)) (let ((y (+ x 1))) body ... (loop ..)) 17:04:04 (let ((x 3)) (let loop ((x x) (y (+ x 1))) ...)) is probably what you want 17:04:15 Or what IJP said 17:04:22 Depends a bit on what the loop does to y 17:06:05 <_Pb> sjamaan: there! that is it 17:06:22 <_Pb> thanks guys 17:08:05 luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has joined #scheme 17:11:51 klovett [~klovett@adsl-69-226-233-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:26:20 -!- jyaan [~jyaan@c-98-250-102-194.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #scheme 17:26:22 -!- klovett [~klovett@adsl-69-226-233-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: klovett] 17:30:32 -!- _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:35 bweaver [~user@38.99.32.194] has joined #scheme 17:30:59 -!- bweaver [~user@38.99.32.194] has left #scheme 17:34:40 evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:35:42 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:35:48 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:42:51 klovett [~klovett@adsl-69-226-233-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:46:35 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 17:48:06 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.99.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:10 incubot: I'm on a horse 17:51:14 you know, I read a mention of a study done on what we call 'punters', (but the paper used a different name which I presume is american, but which I forget) - people who bet on horse races. 17:51:38 jao [~user@83.50.71.238] has joined #scheme 17:59:33 cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 18:00:52 teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:04:48 rudybot: I'm on a boat 18:04:51 *offby1: Let's sing about guys dieing on a boat 18:05:07 The cook said "Fellas, it's too rough to feed ya" 18:23:50 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:28 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 18:25:33 -!- FurnaceBoy [~FurnaceBo@ns2.smartgames.ca] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 18:25:48 rudybot: i got my flippy floppies 18:25:55 wingo: After a while I switched to debian slink-and-a-half, which was like 14 floppies to install the base system, then you could use a cdrom or the internet for the rest 18:26:31 *offby1* nods gravely 18:26:48 wingo: Guile will never be taken seriously until someone writes a truly maginificent IRC bot in it :) 18:27:52 offby1: :) 18:31:25 in fact, that's true of all programming languages! 18:32:03 -!- teurastaja [~Samuel@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:24 minion: are you truly magnificent? 18:42:25 yes 18:42:30 Hmph. 18:42:44 -!- rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:42:51 rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 18:47:49 FurnaceBoy [~FurnaceBo@ns2.smartgames.ca] has joined #scheme 18:49:56 -!- klovett [~klovett@adsl-69-226-233-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: klovett] 18:52:20 -!- jao [~user@83.50.71.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:06 -!- tonyg [~tonyg@pool-108-7-163-164.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:54:41 kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-183.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 18:57:46 KingOfKarlsruhe [~nice@p5B13216E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:08:36 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 19:09:11 schmir [~schmir@p54A91B7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:12:55 Kerrick [~Kerrick@helix.echoservers.com] has joined #scheme 19:15:45 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:53 who are we to judge? 19:19:18 clearly a computer is the most impartial judge. 19:19:41 rudybot: how do you feel about minion, mkay 19:19:41 wingo: do you have any users? 19:19:46 hahaha 19:25:00 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe [~nice@p5B13216E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:37 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 19:29:03 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-136-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:51 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:25 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:36:39 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:56 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 19:38:49 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91B7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:42:04 wingo, I don't see how you got the results you reported in your message. If, for a = -10 and n = 3, you choose q = -3, then r is necessarily -1, not 1 as you suggest; but q = -3 is inconsistent with the definition of Euclidean division given in division.txt, since n = 3 is positive, so q = floor (-10/3) = -4. 19:42:28 However, if you flip the signs of a and n, then you do get q = -3 and r = 1. 19:43:03 Perhaps you ran this in code that has a sign error? (Or, more precisely, an odd number of sign errors?) 19:45:04 (r is -1 if q = -3 because r = a - n q = -10 - 3*(-3) = -10 - -9 = -1.) 19:46:43 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:49:26 -!- OEP [~OEP@c-76-27-129-70.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:52:49 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:55:44 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-165-198.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:45 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:33 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:10:59 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:12:21 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:13:13 Riastradh: yes, I think I mistyped -- I meant to say a = 10 and n = -3, I think 20:13:46 Riastradh: did you mistype when saying that yields "q = -3 and r = 1" above? 20:13:55 i would expect r=-1 in that case 20:14:41 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:15:23 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 20:15:31 to summarize: (euclidean/ 10 -3) should yield -4 and 2 20:15:45 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@helix.echoservers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:50 but i believe the algorithm you give in division.txt yields -3 and -1 in that case 20:16:00 Under the Euclidean division operator, if a = -10 and n = 3, then q = -4 and r = 2. If a = 10 and n = -3, then q = -3 and r = 1. 20:16:25 OK, let a = 10 and n = -3. 20:16:49 ah, i see. ok! 20:17:34 By the definition in division.txt, since n is negative, q = ceiling (a / n) = ceiling (10 / -3) = ceiling (-10/3), which is the ceiling of something between -4 and -3 (-12/3 = -4, -9/3 = -3), and so q = -3. 20:18:07 From the top of the document, r = a - n q = 10 - (-3)*(-3) = 10 - 9 = 1. 20:18:27 what about (euclidean/ -10 -3); should be -4 and 2, no? 20:18:34 er 20:18:37 4 and 2 20:18:41 4 and 2? 20:18:43 Right. 20:18:59 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 20:19:03 Are you sure your code is computing what I wrote in the document? 20:19:09 (define (euclidean/ a n) 20:19:10 (let ((q ((if (> n 0) floor ceiling) (/ a n)))) 20:19:10 (values q (- a (* n q))))) 20:19:34 i think the r6rs twisted my brain here; i like your document better because it corresponds more closely to things that are familiar to me 20:20:47 I gave a procedure for computing each q, and then described the properties that it exhibits; the extra property that 0 < r < |n| happens to uniquely characterize q and r, though, so it mathematically suffices as a definition in the R6RS, and perhaps some mathematicians find the definition by that unique characterization more pleasing than the procedure. 20:21:23 would be nice to be able to compute these things without branches 20:21:45 *Riastradh* shrugs. 20:21:49 heh. 20:22:27 Division is expensive too. I don't know offhand how expensive branches versus divisions are. Of course, you almost always need a branch anyway: is it a fixnum, or a bignum, or not an exact integer at all? 20:24:18 We need a gcd instruction! 20:25:16 In a never-released version of MIT Scheme, there are actually two fixnum tags, for positive and negative fixnums: the negative fixnum tag is all bits set, and the positive fixnum tag is all bits clear. So asking whether something is a fixnum can tell you its sign anyway. 20:26:25 (This scheme has the nice property, of course, that fixnums are self-representing as machine integers.) 20:28:20 klovett [~klovett@adsl-69-226-233-57.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 20:29:33 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:29:37 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:29:44 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:43 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 20:32:25 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:33:23 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:35:52 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:37:18 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.4.101] has joined #scheme 20:38:27 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:40:32 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:46:30 -!- wingo [~wingo@adsl-75-28-21-123.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:09 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 20:50:30 karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 20:54:43 -!- kenpp [~kenpp@188-222-117-86.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:00:44 -!- wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:01:18 wgd [~will@76-205-0-91.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:06:59 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:11:28 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 21:11:35 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.4.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:12:02 abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-ciaippxicvhifnff] has joined #scheme 21:24:30 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 21:28:26 Hey, I'm trying to use the SICP picture language from http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/psets/ps4hnd/readme.html with MIT Scheme 9.0.1 but I'm getting various errors when trying to load those files... 21:29:16 Does anyone know if there are versions of those libraries that work with newer versions of Scheme? Or is that too much to hope for? 21:30:06 I've tried looking at the source code, but it looks a bit advanced for me :/ 21:30:06 Well, there's an implementation for PLT 21:32:26 Jafet: http://planet.plt-scheme.org/display.ss?package=sicp.plt&owner=soegaard This? Do you think it'll work with Mit Scheme? 21:32:46 I'd doubt it, since that package is made for PLT. 21:33:20 I see 21:34:52 -!- kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:27 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:37:36 femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-136-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #scheme 21:41:01 -!- cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:39 -!- karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:42 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:08 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:48:17 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:51:15 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:51:23 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-178-201.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:52:12 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-33-56.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:52:52 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 21:56:03 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-199.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:56:59 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:25 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:14:44 -!- micro_ is now known as micro`` 22:21:10 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-20-76.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 22:22:49 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:29:31 Wildweasal [~Wildweasa@unaffiliated/wildweasal] has joined #scheme 22:51:17 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-136-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:25 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-20-76.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:06 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-20-76.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:04:05 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-20-76.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:10 -!- evhan [~evhan@76-250-39-229.lightspeed.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:07:49 DrDuck [~duck@adsl-67-167-21.shv.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:10:23 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-20-76.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:13:36 wingo [~wingo@cpe-76-166-198-241.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:15:41 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-57-82-249-53-249.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:19:35 -!- DrDuck [~duck@adsl-67-167-21.shv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:27:55 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 23:28:22 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-54-87.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:32:12 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:26 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:41:11 Okay, so I've discovered that MIT schemeson has some kind of SICP compatibility mode, but I'm not sure how to load or enable it, perhaps I'll need to recompile. 23:41:31 Oops, s/schemeson/scheme/ 23:44:36 Son of Scmilsson 23:44:49 Racket supposedly has one too; dunno how well it works 23:46:14 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-20-76.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:47:14 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:49:02 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-183.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:48 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@nat/cisco/x-ciaippxicvhifnff] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:40 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]