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03:37:54 use it to set a cookie... 03:38:01 the wiki it's using is just really old anyways 03:38:09 right, but you can work around this 03:38:12 and i have essentially no kind of real admin rights 03:38:20 just look for the cookie, if not found, throw them at a really dump captcha 03:38:24 no real logins or anything 03:38:37 dumb* 03:38:39 then set the cookie 03:38:54 no inconvenience for real users, and will keep bots out 03:39:37 make it, e.g., "type a scheme expression which adds and " 03:39:43 spammers won't look it up 03:40:27 yea 03:40:27 you could probably do this all in APache without modifying the wiki 03:40:38 Apache + 1 cgi 03:40:39 well i don't have access to anything at all 03:40:42 oh 03:40:44 well. 03:40:47 not the server or anything in any way 03:40:50 burn out more volunteers ;-) 03:40:57 hopefully i will eventually though 03:41:00 +1 03:41:04 abhinavm [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has joined #scheme 03:41:12 if i can contact the old maintainers somehow 03:41:13 jyaan: you just earned a pile of points 03:41:39 heh how do you mean 03:42:14 by cleaning the spam 03:42:18 oh yea 03:42:25 you can now propose a more permanent solution :) 03:42:29 well i just diff'd te stuff 03:42:32 yea 03:42:47 first of all i need to find out why the regexs were done this way 03:42:55 basically every domain is listed 03:43:03 but not much matching patterns 03:43:16 maybe they had some reason for that, i don't know 03:43:58 like some kind of efficiency issue 03:44:36 but a smaller number of more useful patterns would be better imo 03:44:53 and ofc do a better job since they aren't 1 time patches 03:45:55 i think what probably just happened is that ppl that didn't know regex wanted to help 03:46:22 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 03:46:29 and then other ppl like me were confused by doing things this way but just went along with it 03:47:10 has to be, cause i see things like separate like for a .com and .org address which is the same aside from that ending 03:47:18 separate line* 03:52:08 dang seems i missed a few, because they were pages i had already visited before 03:53:00 but yea, check this out: http://community.schemewiki.org/?banned-content 03:54:23 obviously it can be compressed A LOT 04:01:56 Need to go to sleep anyways, cya 04:01:58 -!- jyaan [~jyaan@c-98-250-102-194.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #scheme 04:12:43 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:17:15 hypercube32 [~hypercube@169-91.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:17:46 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@169-91.202-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:24:22 -!- abhinavm [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:57 -!- FurnaceBoy [~FurnaceBo@ns2.smartgames.ca] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 04:32:48 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:40:10 Spewns 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[~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:28:07 http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/SQL-Error-191-Nested-Way-Too-Fing-Deeply.aspx -- scheme would have handled this issue like a dream! 07:28:08 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/y9dggxj 07:41:47 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:08:38 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 08:16:36 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 08:23:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:24:37 soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 08:27:41 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 08:29:32 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 08:38:46 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 08:44:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping 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closed the connection] 11:22:11 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 11:34:15 p896gbm [~p896gbm@206-248-160-97.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 11:35:20 -!- Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 11:37:01 hi folks, i'm trying to make a macro for a simple while loop, like in a c-like language. can anyone take a look at the following error for me? http://pastebin.ca/1922593 11:37:37 why not use syntax-rules 11:37:59 i don't really know what the difference is... 11:38:10 I know how to use syntax-rules :))) 11:38:30 i thought define-syntax-rule was just a shorthand for (define-syntax (syntax-rules ...)) 11:40:31 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:41:56 alvatar [~alvatar@147.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:51:04 nevermind, i just made it a wrapper to (do) instead 11:54:33 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-198-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:56:06 certainty [~closure@dslc-082-082-134-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:56:24 masm [~masm@bl16-198-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:12:07 p896gbm: The error was quote clear, you aren't allowed to use a define where a function is expected. And even if it was allowed, the return value of define isn't specifed so there would be no guarantee that the behaviour you intended is what you'd get 12:12:11 *quite 12:12:25 rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 12:29:26 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:30:05 hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:34:03 -!- soupdragon is now known as Grass-Mud-Horse 12:39:02 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 12:41:16 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 12:42:16 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-93-176-7.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:50:22 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@109-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:56:12 -!- george__ [~george@189.107.211.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:01:14 IJP: yeah that's what i figured, but i also tried putting it in a begin block, returning the function afterwards. that didn't work; it didn't like even having the define as the first expression in a begin 13:03:35 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:09:20 hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:10:15 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:51 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:35 hey folks, are the bindings to let evaluated in left-to-right order? 13:27:13 no 13:27:16 for instance, if i want to read three lines from an input stream, can i do (let ((line1 (read-line in)) (line2 (read-line in)) (line3 (read-line in))) ...) 13:27:17 ah 13:27:24 unspecified, right? 13:27:26 LET* bindings are done in order though 13:27:30 ah 13:27:36 is that the only difference between the two? 13:29:34 you can consider (LET ((V E) ...) BODY) to be like ((LAMBDA (V ...) BODY) E ...), whereas (LET* ((V E) BINDINGS ...) BODY) is like ((LAMBDA (V) (LET* (BINDINGS ...) BODY)) E) 13:30:19 ok 13:30:22 thanks 13:30:36 makes sense. 13:32:24 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@109-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 13:37:20 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-198-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:44:16 Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 13:48:27 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 13:54:41 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:21 -!- Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 14:35:56 luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has joined #scheme 14:48:43 Mr-Cat [c2badc25@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.186.220.37] has joined #scheme 14:51:38 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:51:43 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 14:53:10 Hi. Does anybody know when the proceedings of this weekend's scheme workshop are going to be available? 14:54:57 hi folks, anyone know how i can read an ieee 754 32-bit float from an io port? 14:57:52 abhinav_m [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has joined #scheme 14:59:49 p896gbm: Hmmm, to do this in R6RS you would have to read a bytevector and use bytevector-ieee-(single|double)-ref. This could be abstracted into a function. Your scheme may differ 15:08:49 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:06 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 15:11:21 -!- abhinav_m [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:11:58 -!- abhinavm [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:13:27 anyone know what this error message is? expand: unbound identifier in module in: make-array 15:13:41 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:15:44 roughly, some code is calling a function "make-array", but no function with that name is defined. 15:16:34 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:16:59 yeah, i figured that's what it is, except i didn't believe it because make-array is supposed to be built-in 15:17:12 but maybe i'm looking at some different implementation, racket uses vectors instead of arrays apparently 15:18:17 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 15:19:34 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:20:30 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 15:23:51 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 15:24:30 -!- Grass-Mud-Horse [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has quit [Quit: Grass-Mud-Horse] 15:26:39 yeah, as far as I know, in racket there aren't _any_ built-in functions whose names contain the word "array" 15:26:45 gotta read the right docs. 15:28:04 aymeric [~aymeric@CPE0019e33fe10f-CM0017ee42b49e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:40:49 abhinavm [~abhinav@122.172.2.177] has joined #scheme 15:41:57 -!- abhinavm is now known as abhinav 15:43:15 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 15:49:25 hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:51:44 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abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.10.20] has joined #scheme 19:06:42 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-41-218.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:30 haesbaert [~haesbaert@c9154cdc.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 19:14:23 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-222-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:14:36 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-222-56.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:16:41 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:23:03 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-173-14.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:23:48 hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:28:48 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:31:50 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: smtlaissezfaire] 19:45:42 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-132.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:47:55 rudybot: eval (my-map (lambda (n) (apply values (iota n))) (list 4 3 2 3 5)) 19:47:56 ski: ; Value: (4 3 2 3 5) 19:47:57 ski: ; Value#2: (3 2 1 2 4) 19:47:58 ski: ; Value#3: (2 1) 19:47:59 ski: ; Value#4: (1) 19:50:44 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-109-7.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 19:50:57 rudybot: eval (apply values (make-list 10 '())) 19:50:58 chandler: your racket sandbox is ready 19:50:58 chandler: ; Value: () 19:50:59 chandler: ; Value#2: () 19:51:00 chandler: ; Value#3: () 19:51:01 chandler: ; Value#4: () 19:51:02 chandler: ; Value#5: () 19:51:03 chandler: ; five values is enough for anybody; here's the rest in a list: (() () () () ()) 19:51:38 rudybot: eval (apply values '(five values is enough for anybody)) 19:51:39 Grass-Mud-Horse: your sandbox is ready 19:51:39 Grass-Mud-Horse: ; Value: five 19:51:40 Grass-Mud-Horse: ; Value#2: values 19:51:41 Grass-Mud-Horse: ; Value#3: is 19:51:42 Grass-Mud-Horse: ; Value#4: enough 19:51:43 Grass-Mud-Horse: ; Value#5: for 19:51:44 Grass-Mud-Horse: ; five values is enough for anybody; here's the rest in a list: (anybody) 19:53:54 doubters 19:53:55 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:55:13 Moi? 19:57:15 so .. would the above "unzipping" behaviour be useful ? 19:58:22 smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 19:58:26 -!- smtlaissezfaire [~smtlaisse@user-387hbid.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:03 rudybot: eval (my-map (lambda (list) (values (car list) (cdr list))) (list (list 0) (list 1 2) (list 3 4 5))) 19:59:04 ski: ; Value: (0 1 3) 19:59:04 ski: ; Value#2: (() (2) (4 5)) 20:01:24 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 20:01:26 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:02:10 hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:13:59 preflex: seen minion 20:14:00 minion was last seen on #scheme 11 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes and 29 seconds ago, saying: Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``fasl''. 20:14:38 What's preflex? 20:14:53 preflex: help? 20:15:16 a bot which i recalled had a `seen' command 20:15:53 (owned by "mauke", i think) 20:16:04 Rakko [~rakko@71-90-73-192.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:16:21 Hi, Schemers. I have another newbie question. 20:16:31 i was just wondering whether minion maybe had gone searching for sorbet 20:16:44 No, minion just dropped off; I'm restarting it now. 20:16:55 Why is this bot here? 20:17:23 Rakko pasted "dfs_path.scm" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/113752 20:17:23 if you mean preflex, then maybe ask mauke ? 20:17:42 rudybot: do you support a "seen" command? 20:17:42 sorbet! I don't have any sorbet; but I have some nice frozen yogurt 20:17:43 ski: support other types of selections. (The primary selection that is ..[Type ,more] 20:17:49 rudybot: seen ski 20:17:50 *offby1: ski was seen in/on #scheme twenty-six seconds ago, saying "if you mean preflex, then maybe ask mauke ?", and then ski was seen in/on #scheme seven seconds ago, saying "rudybot: do you support a "seen" command?" 20:17:54 Why do I get ";The object "yes" is not applicable." (under MIT Scheme)? 20:18:01 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:18:12 offby1 : ok. i'll try to remember that 20:18:20 Rakko: you've probably got ("yes" "boss") where you meant to have (list "yes" "boss") 20:18:24 rudybot: help 20:18:24 *offby1: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, t8 ..., init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ..., join , part , tell ..., emote ..., for ..., ghost , nick , system ..., top-eval ... 20:18:30 rudybot: give ski 123 20:18:31 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 20:18:31 ski: offby1 has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 20:18:45 rudybot: give offby1 my-map 20:18:46 offby1: ski has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" 20:18:51 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 20:18:52 *offby1: ; Value: # 20:18:58 rudybot: eval (* (GRAB) 0) 20:18:59 ski: ; Value: 0 20:19:01 offby1: Well, the function is supposed to return "yes" or "no"... not in a list. Why does Scheme think it's the car of a list? 20:19:02 rudybot: eval ((GRAB) add1 (build-list 10 values)) 20:19:03 *offby1: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10) 20:19:16 Rakko: can't tell without seeing your actual code. 20:19:29 offby1: Rakko pasted "dfs_path.scm" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/113752 20:19:40 preflex: list 20:19:41 Botsnack: [botsnack]; Cdecl: [cdecl]; 8ball: [8ball]; Factoid: [+, -, ., ?, delete, get, store]; Help: [help, list]; Karma: [++, --, karma, karmabot, karmatop]; Nickometer: [nickometer]; Nickr: [nickr]; Seen: [seen]; Sixst: [6st]; Tell: [ask, clear-messages, messages, tell]; Rot13: [rot13]; Quote: [be, quote, remember]; WCalc: [calc, wcalc]; Version: [version]; XSeen: [xseen]; ZCode: [zdec, zenc] 20:20:08 Rakko: interesting; I can't tell offhand. lemme play with it a while 20:20:13 thanks 20:20:30 the function worked just fine *before* I put in (with-output-to-port console-i/o-port ... 20:21:25 offby1: the idea being that not only "zipping" together the input lists, but also "unzipping" apart the result values from the procedure, collecting into possibly several output lists 20:21:49 Rakko: hmm, with some trivial changes to get it to work on racket, it seems to work fine. 20:21:57 aaaaahhhh 20:22:18 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:22:27 Rakko: `with-output-to-port' takes a thunk. 20:22:35 that function probably expects that its second argument is a procedure. 20:22:42 and you're instead giving it "yes" or "no". 20:23:03 ohhh 20:23:04 You probably want to write something like (with-output-to-port console-i/o-port (lambda () #| the contents of your `begin' form here |# )) 20:23:07 yep 20:23:14 chandler: get your own brain; I'm using mine 20:23:26 what is #| |#? 20:23:32 a comment 20:23:34 It's an inline comment. 20:23:40 oh, cool. didn't know about that. 20:23:49 All right, lambda... I think I get that. Thanks. 20:23:51 offby1: Psh. That's what *you* think. I've seen how much of it you're actually using. 20:23:56 rudybot: eval (my-map (lambda (n) (quotient/remainder n 10)) (list 1 23 456 7890)) 20:23:56 ski: ; Value: (0 2 45 789) 20:23:57 ski: ; Value#2: (1 3 6 0) 20:25:21 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@147.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:26:25 chandler: HEY GIVE THAT BACK 20:26:32 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.10.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:27:04 offby1: you use racket? 20:27:30 I do 20:27:42 me too 20:27:43 how is it? do you use the IDE? 20:27:48 mostly mzscheme via emacs 20:28:07 it's my favorite language. 20:28:17 the author of the book I'm reading uses DrScheme, so I was thinking of trying it (but I have MIT Scheme installed so I use that) 20:28:17 unfortunately certain considerations prevent me from using it at work. 20:28:22 mzscheme? What is this, 2009? 20:28:27 WHAT ever. 20:28:30 lol 20:29:08 I think it is still 2009, in those bits of the universe that are more than eight light-months from here. 20:29:16 hehehe 20:29:28 what does the Mz stand for? 20:29:34 "Ms" 20:29:58 many of the PLT programs have names that begin with two-letter thingies like "Mr" "Dr" "Mz" etc. 20:30:04 Oh, yeah 20:30:05 don't know why. Probably some ancient joke 20:30:22 "MsScheme" would be subject to misinterpretation :) 20:30:22 *ski* . o O ( "FrTime" ) 20:30:23 Scheme.NET 20:30:30 don't tell anyone, but the PLT logo actually has a subliminal message glorifying DRUGS and ROCK AND ROLL 20:30:36 There's even "DrDr". 20:30:52 DrDr gimme the news 20:31:17 lambda = drugs & rock & roll? what about the sex? 20:31:56 It all goes together. 20:32:14 Rakko: Racket is a fine implementation; so is MIT Scheme. Use whichever you prefer. 20:32:43 so is MzScheme updated to Racket yet? Or is it a version of pre-Racket PLT Scheme? 20:32:53 seriously -- the PLT logo was originally based on this: http://citycenternyc.blogspot.com/2008/01/steal-your-face-right-off-your-head.html 20:32:54 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/359u5wz 20:33:05 Edwin is a bit different than DrRacket. If you're very familiar with Emacs, you'll probably prefer Edwin. 20:33:20 *offby1* raises hand 20:33:27 I understand why you said that, but ... 20:34:11 Didn't I weasel word that enough? 20:34:26 no, you did not. 20:34:32 *offby1* takes chandler out back to be shot 20:34:35 let that be a lesson 20:34:47 Wait! I'm still using your brain. Don't you want it back first? 20:35:12 di 20:35:13 lem 20:35:14 ma 20:35:31 Rakko: mzscheme is how the non-graphical REPL was invoked pre-Racket. It's still around for compatibility. 20:35:59 The replacement for `mzscheme' is `racket'; the replacement for `mred' is `gracket'. 20:37:09 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 20:37:19 saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:38:39 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.1.208] has joined #scheme 20:41:21 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 20:44:25 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 20:44:43 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:48:22 ok :) 20:52:43 thanks, chandler and offby1 20:52:45 bye 20:53:16 -!- Rakko [~rakko@71-90-73-192.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Rakko] 21:10:43 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:05 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 21:17:13 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:03 sir_lewk [~jlg95@tux64-13.cs.drexel.edu] has joined #scheme 21:19:33 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-186-52.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:20:19 is there a way to determine in scheme weither something is being run with mit/gnu scheme or gnu guile? 21:20:54 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:22:44 guile doesn't have some stream support stuff (like head, tail, and cons-stream) defined it seems 21:23:50 so I want to conditionally do something to the effect of: (load "streams.ss") I guess 21:24:47 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:26:31 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:27:12 guild and MIT both support SRFI-0 21:27:15 *guile 21:30:24 ok, thanks 21:30:35 I'm new to all of this :) 21:38:59 Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:105:101:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has joined #scheme 21:44:14 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:105:101:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 21:44:22 Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:105:101:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has joined #scheme 21:50:36 huh, seems cons-stream isn't actually an srfi feature? srfi-40 has stream-cons (and neither guile nor mit/gnu scheme have it for me ...) :S 21:50:44 this complicates things 21:51:24 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:28 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@2610:130:105:101:221:6aff:fe7a:1842] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:57 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 21:55:02 sir_lewk, you probably don't really want to use MIT Scheme's stream operations. They match what one finds in SICP, but they have a design mistake that renders them difficult to use safely. You want to use SRFI 40 instead (for which which is not built-in to MIT Scheme, unfortunately). 21:56:07 Actually, I don't remember whether you want to use SRFI 40, but you certainly want to use SRFI 45 instead of the laziness primitives in the R5RS. 21:57:32 srfi-40 is listed as depricated (presumably by srfi-41) here: http://srfi.schemers.org/final-srfis.html 21:58:24 this is all for a school assignment that uses mit scheme's stream operations, which seem kind of similar (except in name) to those defined in srfi-41, so I think I'm going to use that 21:59:00 Be careful: MIT Scheme implements odd streams, but there is basically no reason to want odd streams instead of even streams, except for compatibility with SICP. 21:59:52 I'm afraid I'm not really sure what that means, I'll google this a bit more 22:00:13 Odd: (cons a (delay d)) 22:00:16 Even: (delay (cons a d)) 22:00:36 ahh 22:01:10 Hi. Does anybody know when the proceedings of this weekend's scheme workshop are going to be available? 22:07:42 hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:11:44 Not I, Mr-Cat. 22:12:15 it seems you can't use defmacro/define-macro the same in guile and mit-scheme? 22:12:25 You do not want to use DEFMACRO: it is a bug. 22:13:56 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:29 I was using define-macro to get cons-stream in guile. works there, but not in mit-scheme :S 22:15:14 -!- haesbaert [~haesbaert@c9154cdc.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:15:23 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:20 (I think) cons-stream can't be implemented as a function 22:16:57 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:36 rudybot: eval (define-syntax cons-stream (syntax-rules () ((cons-stream ?head ?tail) (delay (cons ?head ?tail))))) 22:19:34 hotblack23 [~jh@p57B5A977.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:19:37 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p57B5A977.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:44 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 22:20:49 That was weird. 22:21:18 sir_lewk, you do not want to use DEFMACRO: it is a bug. 22:21:41 You are correct that CONS-STREAM cannot be implemented as a procedure; it must be a special operator, such as a macro, because its use does not follow the ordinary evaluation rules of procedure calls. 22:23:23 hosh_office [~hosh@c-71-204-27-0.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:26:17 hm, when using the srfi-45 primitives for implementing (say even) streams, how would one avoid breaking the stream abstraction, but still get the benifits of the `lazy' primitive ? 22:26:34 Avoid breaking the stream abstraction? 22:26:37 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 22:27:01 of course one could introduce a `lazy-stream' primitive, but that doesn't seem to scale that well, when one's adding more lazy data structures 22:27:50 i would like a lazy stream to be implemented as a lazy suspension of either the empty list, or a cons of an element and a lazy stream 22:28:07 but ideally the user shouldn't have to know about that representation in terms of lazy suspensions 22:28:20 Why shouldn't the user have to know about that? 22:29:20 it seems like an implementation detail 22:29:26 Why? 22:29:46 of course it depends on one's conception of a "lazy stream" 22:29:59 `A stream is a promise yielding either nil or a pair.' What's wrong with that definition? 22:31:13 `A `tree_t' is either a null pointer or a pointer to a `struct tree' which contains two more `tree_t's.' 22:31:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:32:54 i'm not saying one can't take the path you're suggesting. i'm just pondering if it is possible/sensible to make this an abstract data type 22:35:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-221.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:38:48 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 22:40:35 (generally, one is usually hiding details of the internals of a library, so that users of it are shielded from depending on accidental details, and so the the conceptual burden is lessened. so i wonder if it would be reasonable to hide this "detail", in this case, and in that case, how to still be able to express iterative algorithms, as `lazy' affords for promises) 22:41:18 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:41:25 Well, one would have to introduce a LAZY-STREAM primitive, as you suggested. 22:42:09 teurastaja [~teurastaj@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:43:18 kniu [~kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 22:44:48 ok, so using define-syntax seems to work fine in mit-scheme then. great :) 22:46:57 sir_lewk : iirc, you say `(use-modules (ice-9 syncase))' in Guile, to get `define-syntax' and `syntax-rules' 22:48:26 ok, good to know. didn't get to try it on guile yet at all because I got kicked off my machine that has it... :) 22:51:25 hm, i suppose i'm annoyed at having to add `lazy-foo' for each lazy data structure `foo', under this scheme, instead of being able to say something like `(define-lazy (stream-filter keep? stream) ...)' -- but then i realize that one'd have to have a class of "lazy data types" on which `define-lazy' would work .. 22:56:31 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.164.57.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:34 copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.164.57.206] has joined #scheme 22:57:57 mhoye_ [~mhoye@shell.off.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:01 -!- mhoye [~mhoye@shell.off.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:44 -!- ineiros_ [~itniemin@cs27065016.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:02:33 ineiros_ [~itniemin@cs27065016.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 23:03:53 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:33 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 23:05:06 ski: In SRFI 40 and 41 STREAM is a distinct type, but I agree with http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-40/post-mail-archive/msg00024.html 23:06:39 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:07:01 it does seem odd to me that a stream is a seperate thing 23:13:00 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:19:31 Adamant_ [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 23:20:25 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:20:25 -!- Adamant_ is now known as Adamant 23:25:08 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-239.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:28:05 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 23:30:00 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 23:30:21 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.142] has joined #scheme 23:30:49 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:31:51 -!- Mr-Cat [c2badc25@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.186.220.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:29 mmc [~michal@93-39-32-196.ip74.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 23:34:31 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:34 -!- teurastaja [~teurastaj@modemcable173.144-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:48 -!- bremner [~bremner@yantan.tethera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:45:39 bremner [~bremner@yantan.tethera.net] has joined #scheme 23:51:48 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.1.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:02 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@202-180-88-252.callplus.net.nz] has joined #scheme 23:57:15 -!- Grass-Mud-Horse [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has quit [Quit: Grass-Mud-Horse]