00:00:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:05 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 00:07:23 -!- paperkettles [~chris@ip72-195-132-159.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: paperkettles] 00:11:30 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-0-142.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:11:46 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:43 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:27:51 Is REFERENCE-BARRIER a reasonable name for a procedure that guarantees that whatever it is passed as its first argument will be considered live by the garbage collector until it is called? That is, (let* ((p (cons 0 0)) (c (make-weak-cell p))) (gc) (begin0 (weak-cell-broken? c) (reference-barrier p] will yield #F, whereas without the reference barrier it may yield #T. 00:33:54 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:02 antoszka [~antoszka@cl-142.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:03 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@cl-142.waw-01.pl.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:34:03 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:36:50 seems like a reasonable name to me 00:40:17 Riastradh: Per the earlier conversation, would it be a possibility to use make-weak-eq-hash-table, and (0) if there are no arguments, maintain current behaviour, (1) if the first arg is a symbol, that's the type (then check for a size argument); (2) if the first arg is a number, maintain current behaviour. 00:42:15 That way you can use the name you want while maintaining backwards compatibility, plus you've got an "upgrade path" for when you would want to force the type in the future. 00:42:34 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 00:42:47 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@7-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:43:52 No, metasyntax, because there are several procedures with `weak' in their names, and they all have other arguments already. 00:43:57 metasyntax: I think it's incredibly non-obvious to have two different kinds of weak hash tables created by the same procedure without something like a keyword argument to denote the type. 00:44:18 Er, I think I misunderstood your proposal. 00:44:34 chessguy [~chessguy@pool-96-241-144-242.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:45:54 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:46:09 so, i've got a question about an example in the SICP book. they work through building up a language of circuits, to talk about local state. i can't figure out why they built this whole complicated "delay" system though 00:46:59 chandler: Essentially, (make-weak-eq-hash-table [kind] [initial-size]). If kind isn't specified, then it's key-weak. 00:47:39 There is a much better solution to this whole mess, of course, but it requires a lot of work in MIT Scheme... 00:47:54 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:55 yeah DELAY is stupid 00:47:58 it just makes progamming difficult 00:48:06 you can't reason about time or space complexity or anything like that 00:48:21 is that the lazy evaluation thing? 00:48:29 bremner, no, that comes later 00:48:59 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-22.html#%_sec_3.3.4 00:49:38 they say that every component has some kind of delay, and therefore things have to get stuck onto an agenda 00:50:04 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:50:39 chessguy: Because that's fundamental to the nature of the system being simulated. 00:50:41 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:58 why? i don't understand that 00:52:02 That's how real logic gates work; there's a period of time between when the inputs are changed and when the output changes. 00:52:35 otherwise things like flip-flops are impossible 00:52:39 ? 00:53:35 That's why your computer has a clock. Not to tell the user the time like a wall clock, but to synchronize the various components so that they happen in discrete steps that can be understood and reasoned about easily. 00:54:27 bremner: I don't see how that follows. 00:54:40 There *are* clockless circuits, but they are very difficult to reason about. 00:55:46 but for flip-flops to work, you need delays, right? 00:56:55 necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:58:49 The most basic flip-flop works even without a delay. 00:58:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:R-S_mk2.gif 01:02:09 If you didn't have a clock separating the operations into discrete steps, then it would be extraordinarily difficult to model the systems like SICP does. You would basically need to represent everything by the systems of differential equations governing the components, and, as you are no doubt aware, differential equations are hard. 01:03:50 i'm not understanding how i would know what to set these delays to. they seem to just magically pull numbers out of the air 01:04:21 They're probably based on the behavior of actual gates. 01:05:11 so if i don't know these magic numbers, i won't be able to simulate these circuits? 01:05:56 The behavior of your simulation will changed based on the delays, just as the behavior of a real circuit will depend on the actual gates used. 01:07:41 "will change" 01:08:38 ok, but if you're building a half-adder, you would still and/or/invert things the same way regardless of the delays, right? 01:11:21 Yes; the delays will affect when the output is stable. 01:11:59 oh. interesting 01:12:16 so at some point it will be stable, regardless of what the delays are 01:13:11 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:15:53 outworlder [~outworlde@187.58.81.205] has joined #scheme 01:16:59 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:28:22 fowlduck [~fowlduck@24-196-82-168.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:36:36 has anyone seen this? 01:36:36 http://programming-puzzler.blogspot.com/2010/08/racket-vs-clojure.html 01:38:29 I'm particularly curious about the last comment referring to additions to Racket trunk. 01:40:20 most of the post resonated with me -- Id rather have a Scheme implementation with a good FFI than a horde of bloated java apis, but I find that interface driven functional datastructures are a huge productivity boost 01:42:58 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:26 Checkie [3730@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 02:11:40 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:16:10 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:18:21 fod_ [~fod@92.251.255.7.threembb.ie] has joined #scheme 02:19:08 george_ [~george@189.107.162.243] has joined #scheme 02:20:46 -!- fod [~fod@92.251.255.5.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:21:08 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:27:49 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:31:51 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:56 *jcowan* appears, somewhat belatedly. 02:33:10 *Riastradh* belates, somewhat appearedly. 02:33:32 That can't be easy. 02:33:58 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:34:09 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:36:45 why is one berate and belate? 02:36:57 what does be do? 02:39:03 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 02:41:35 -!- chessguy [~chessguy@pool-96-241-144-242.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:43:03 To do is to be / To be is to do / Scooby-dooby-doo 02:44:34 Do-be-do-be-do (Frank Sinatra) 02:49:43 RyanRN [~Adium@pool-173-48-250-140.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:35 timj_ [~timj@e176195214.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:26 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176192068.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:56:37 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 03:11:59 -!- george_ [~george@189.107.162.243] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:12:24 george_ [~george@189.107.162.243] has joined #scheme 03:12:37 -!- george_ is now known as summersault 03:19:34 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 03:27:26 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 03:50:22 -!- mhoye [~mhoye@shell.off.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:50:26 mhoye [~mhoye@shell.off.net] has joined #scheme 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2) (+ (* x y) 3))) or whatever, how do I graph it with racket? 06:23:56 or do I have to write my own grapher 06:33:26 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 06:40:36 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:41:15 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 06:43:33 kar8nga [~kar8nga@j-185.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 06:45:14 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:50:40 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #scheme 06:54:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 07:01:56 -!- soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has quit [Quit: soupdragon] 07:07:54 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Computer sleeping...] 07:08:09 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-93-177-127.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:10:05 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] 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has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:19:30 mmc [~michal@109.117.207.230] has joined #scheme 16:29:56 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:45 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:31:51 -!- mmc [~michal@109.117.207.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:55 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 16:35:03 mmc [~michal@109.117.207.230] has joined #scheme 16:44:57 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:46:24 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:55:28 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 16:55:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:16:45 -!- 50UAAI79B [~quassel@c-24-22-21-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 17:21:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.8] has joined #scheme 17:26:54 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:05 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:44 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@7-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:30:10 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@7-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 17:52:07 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 17:54:17 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:12 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:58:26 Nils^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has joined #scheme 17:58:53 hi people. Is there a function or way to show me all hash entries in a certain hash table? 17:58:55 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:59:39 ah, hashmap->list I read right now 18:05:36 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-247.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:06:30 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-202.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:07:28 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:12:25 -!- fod [~fod@92.251.255.7.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:09 soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 18:38:51 cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 18:48:31 fod [~fod@92.251.255.5.threembb.ie] has joined #scheme 18:49:08 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:10 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:00:39 -!- mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:30 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:33 exels 19:14:04 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:19:17 schmir [~schmir@p54A905EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:23:06 -!- mmc [~michal@109.117.207.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:27:20 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A905EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:55 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.128.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:57 Komi [Komi@62.32.128.147] has joined #scheme 19:31:46 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.128.147] has quit [Client Quit] 19:37:36 _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 19:43:46 mmc [~michal@109.112.45.216] has joined #scheme 19:44:34 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-14.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:44:41 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-14.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:53:42 -!- _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:55:08 _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 20:02:57 waltermai [~walt@c-98-208-253-36.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:18:30 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20:31 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:22:17 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:22:24 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-182-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:31:11 -!- _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:36:51 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:37:39 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.11/2010071400]] 20:40:20 -!- linkd [~switch@unaffiliated/linkd] has left #scheme 20:40:28 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 20:42:47 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 20:45:33 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:45 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:05:35 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 21:10:02 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:10:18 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 21:13:51 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:19 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:21:11 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 21:24:06 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #scheme 21:37:32 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:38:08 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 21:39:59 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:47 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:29 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 21:45:30 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:43 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 21:53:39 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:08 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:00:30 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:50 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc4-midd16-2-0-cust402.midd.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #scheme 22:12:09 Hey, folks, there's a bike shed at . 22:16:37 Azuvix [~Azuvix@174-19-234-140.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 22:22:00 ? 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