00:00:00 fod [~fod@92.251.255.5.threembb.ie] has joined #scheme 00:16:52 What I would like to see is Jessica Alba naked, but that document might prove interesting too. 00:19:09 -!- _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:24:02 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:17 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:24:18 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:26:31 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-75.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:52 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-239-222.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:35:23 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:47:29 -!- pavelludiq [~user@87.246.26.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:23 No one's taking the bait? Do I need to provide on-topic discussion material? 01:04:28 incubot, have you seen jessica alba? 01:04:32 Jessica Lange is a dude? 01:05:47 Cute fact: NetBSD stores the pthread identifier in the bits of the stack pointer. So it loses in MIT Scheme when control is in Scheme (which has a stack somewhere else in memory), the OS delivers a signal, control enters a signal handler, and the wait4 stub from libpthread.so tries to use the current pthread. 01:05:57 (Also, makecontext doesn't work in programs linked against libpthread.so, probably for similar reasons.) 01:06:58 What other operating systems lose this way? 01:07:34 How does the stack pointer have room for tag bits? Is NetBSD limited to 8-32 threads? 01:07:52 Dunno, I haven't investigated that far. 01:08:16 It is probably limited to ~1024ish threads, and there is probably an upper bound on the size of each thread's stack. 01:10:51 The obvious alternative is tying up a register for the thread id, which is unacceptable on x86. How else can you do it? 01:10:55 Ah, no, I think there is just a bound on the product of the number of threads and the stack size of each thread (which is a constant for a process, fixed at program initialization). 01:11:34 foof: Tie up a register for thread-local data and put the thread ID in there? 01:11:42 A CPU-private page of virtual memory at a constant address, perhaps? 01:12:02 chandler, that's no good; MIT Scheme would eat that register too. 01:12:04 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:12:19 chandler: I was making the simplifying assumption that the thread ID would be (or provide fast access to) the thread pointer, from which you can get TLS. 01:12:23 Right now, I'm working around this by just swapping stack pointers when control enters a signal handler. 01:14:05 Riastradh: How is CPU-private memory implemented? Does it require hardware support? 01:14:25 Slightly on-topic novice question: Is MIT Scheme good? I'm probably going to continue using it until I've finished SICP anyway, but I was just wondering if there were any horrific deficiencies that I should be aware of? 01:14:30 Dunno. I made that up on the spot. It would work, though, if it worked! 01:14:40 :/ 01:15:20 I'm just curious what that base step is - how to get a single different value for each thread. 01:15:43 franki-, horrific deficiencies? On 32-bit systems, it is limited to a 64 MB heap. (The analogous limitation on 64-bit systems is impractically large to matter.) Aside from that, nothing immediately jumps to mind. 01:15:50 On some operating systems, it will occasionally wedge inside a signal handler for reasons that I am trying to work around right now. 01:16:14 cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 01:16:24 foof: Presumably "ask the kernel" is a sensible answer, if a bit slow. 01:19:03 does anyone know of any shared hosting providers that would let me run a scheme web app? 01:19:16 Riastradh: Okau, sounds good, I've just a read a few statements like "many Scheme implementations do x or y wrong" but little actual data on which implementations are actually "good" (for some value of good), but I guess I'll stick with MIT Scheme and feel slightly happier now that you've said that. Thanks. :) 01:19:23 Okay* 01:19:46 faure: Shared as in "not virtualized"? 01:20:16 chandler: shared as in not outrageously expensive :) 01:20:26 faure: Virtual hosts these days are very reasonable, and let you do anything you want. 01:20:50 neat. any reccomendations? 01:20:58 faure: What's your definition of "outrageously expensive"? 01:21:23 My default recommendation would be Linode, but at $20/mo it might be outside your budget. 01:21:35 $20/mo is perfect 01:21:45 I'm using Linode as well and am very happy with it. 01:21:49 There are some cheaper Xen hosts around, or so I've heard. 01:22:09 prgmr.com is cheaper 01:22:13 By outrageously expensive I meant over $100/month 01:22:21 prgmr.com is also perpetually sold out. 01:22:29 indeed 01:22:38 I've also heard that it's oversold compared to Linode. 01:22:46 so on Linode you get root access to a virtual server? 01:22:54 That's the idea, yes. 01:23:11 nevermind, it says that on their front page 01:23:12 Choose your OS, set it up as you please, run what you want. 01:23:36 great..wow, thanks foof and chandler. never knew something like this existed for $20/mo 01:27:34 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:28:52 So how do other operating systems store the current pthread? I don't remember offhand. 01:29:31 (current thread, whether it be for pthreads or not) 01:33:40 Not relying on specific bit patterns, you could lookup the current stack pointer in a binary tree. 01:34:01 The would be O(log(N)) in the # of threads. 01:35:10 Or maybe Linux uses one of the obscure debug registers? 01:35:47 That doesn't solve my problem. 01:35:55 In fact, I don't know what problem it solves. 01:36:04 (compared to storing the thread id in the stack pointer) 01:37:09 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 01:37:18 I'm not trying to solve a problem, just musing how you obtain the current thread ID in Linux. 01:37:53 OK. 01:38:12 Those are two possibilities. The former would break in the same way as BSD. 01:38:15 Sorry, I forgot what question I asked. 01:44:08 _danb_ [~user@124.149.177.177] has joined #scheme 01:57:37 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:15 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:06:03 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-82-90.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:09:28 this message suggests it isn't that fast an operation: http://lkml.org/lkml/2004/6/5/88 02:12:16 I just don't have any Linux source handy to check; does anyone else? 02:12:48 getpid, of course, is easier: there could just be a page of virtual memory devoted to process information, including the pid. 02:12:58 (at a fixed virtual address) 02:17:24 pop %esp # Restore stack pointer 02:19:08 -!- luz [~davids@201.17.88.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:51 Now gdb is refusing to cooperate. 02:25:09 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:37 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:25:40 What, you're not debugging something that follows the standard platform ABI? Time to abort and dump core! 02:25:50 _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 02:26:22 <_Pb> has anyone here written a game in scheme? 02:26:43 *foof* 02:27:05 chandler, no, gdb hasn't given me too much trouble about that. The trouble is that it doesn't want to pass along signals and break in the signal handler. 02:27:20 (I don't know which of the two it is failing to do, but it's one of them!) 02:27:36 -!- yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 02:27:41 <_Pb> foof: you have? 02:27:45 Oh, yes, signals. gdb won't like you if you try to pass those along either. 02:28:12 And you might actually get them to the process, but devoid of the correct ucontext. 02:28:18 It must not be passing SIGQUIT at all. 02:28:40 Yes, I had trouble with the ucontext before, when I was debugging NetBSD's siginfo for SIGFPE. (It was giving the wrong si_code, but gdb was making it even more wrong.) 02:28:48 (Now NetBSD is fixed, but gdb is still broken.) 02:28:59 Fortunately, I don't use the ucontext here. 02:29:01 _Pb: I wrote a frozen bubble clone in Guile + SDL. 02:29:35 <_Pb> foof: cool! 02:29:40 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 02:29:58 <_Pb> is it functional, or did you end up using a lot of side effects? 02:30:16 yosafbridge [~yosafbrid@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 02:30:53 It appears that the problem arises only when Scheme is waiting for I/O in a system call. 02:31:13 The game state was of course full of side-effects, I think individual loops and utilities were functional. 02:31:22 I'm not even sure I have the code anymore... 02:31:25 <_Pb> ah 02:31:39 Riastradh: Oh, no. Is gdb receiving the signal and then restarting the system call? Does it think the SIGQUIT was meant for it, not the process being debugged? 02:32:01 I said `handle SIGQUIT nostop pass'. I also tried with SIGINT. 02:32:30 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:32:40 <_Pb> foof: yeah, i'm wondering if it's even worth the effort of trying to write it functionally. were your game objects, or some other data structure? 02:33:24 _Pb: What kind of game are you looking at writing? 02:34:18 For some kinds of games, I could see a big advantage to using functional data structures, especially if you have some kind of undo functionality. 02:34:23 <_Pb> chandler: it's a weird idea, but it's similar to a shoot-em-up 02:34:29 <_Pb> yeah 02:34:42 Mm. Not seeing the advantage there. :-) 02:34:52 The only objects really are the bubbles. You just need to compute angles and keep track of where the bubbles are, and what color they are. 02:35:12 maybe you could add a reverse time power-up 02:36:07 <_Pb> well, i don't really need to access past states 02:37:19 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:42:06 <_Pb> may as well say screw it and write it mostly imperatively, right? 02:44:21 _Pb: It depends if you're doing this as a learning excercise or if the game itself is the goal. 02:44:47 personally, I make mistakes frequently, but find that a functional style leads to somewhat less frequent mistakes, regardless of the program. 02:44:48 Functional make it easier to reason about, maintain and update. 02:45:19 <_Pb> the goal is the game itself 02:46:01 <_Pb> but yeah, that's why i wanted to program it functionally in the first place 02:47:06 _Pb: Consider this game: http://programmingpraxis.com/2010/07/27/hamurabi-bas/ 02:47:25 The main loop there is riddled with set!s. 02:47:56 But it could be written functionally using foof-loop, and would be easier to read and probably faster as a result. 02:48:53 <_Pb> that makes sense 02:49:27 Character stats and the like probably aren't going to change more than a few time per second, so a few conses for functional update there are no problem. 02:49:51 <_Pb> yeah, but what happens when you introduce a lot of complex game objects that need to be updated every frame? 02:50:02 On the other hand, moving characters through a large grid-world functionally may be expensive. 02:50:09 <_Pb> thanks, btw, i'll read through that later 02:50:10 <_Pb> yeah 02:50:27 Right - positions in the game world are one thing you probably want to use mutation for. 02:51:04 <_Pb> yeah, only pass around a list like (x y dx dy) 02:52:30 <_Pb> oh 02:52:44 timj_ [~timj@e176192212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:13 -!- saccade [~saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:53:18 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:55:20 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:56:03 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176195156.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:06:17 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:17:03 mprime [d0668528@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.102.133.40] has joined #scheme 03:20:39 -!- mprime [d0668528@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.102.133.40] has left #scheme 03:34:53 FreeBSD appears to store a pointer to thread-local storage in %gs. 03:37:12 That doesn't interfere with makecontext, sigaltstack, or MIT Scheme, I imagine. 03:37:23 Nobody uses the segment registers, anyway! 03:41:28 ... 03:41:41 apparently not on freebsd 03:42:16 -!- _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49:39 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:53:01 OT, how does STM deal with external mutations? e.g. you output a web-page showing someone's bank account balance and then afterwards realize you need to rollback the transaction? 03:53:15 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:00 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 03:54:18 foof: usually IO isn't permitted during a transaction 03:55:06 foof: usually CRYING isn't permitted during baseball 03:55:21 It doesn't, foof. 03:57:52 offby1: I'm a Phillies fan, I have a lot to cry about. 04:00:17 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:02:22 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:08:20 foof: it's OK for fans. But for players -- verboten. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWoD2sQ9LiU 04:08:53 *offby1* suspects he's never before in his life encountered a Phillies fan -- despite being descended from a Philadelphia native 04:09:13 see, my Mom like the Philadelphia _Athletics_. Gives you an idea how old I am. 04:09:19 s/like/likef/ 04:09:21 liked 04:09:26 *offby1* curses tequila 04:12:02 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-239-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:49 you scared off the booze 04:18:03 m4k3r [~maker@host242-91-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 04:31:33 waltermai [~walt@c-68-54-64-79.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:02:29 pavelludiq [~user@87.246.26.183] has joined #scheme 05:05:31 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 05:05:31 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:52 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:08 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 05:06:25 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:30 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connection] 11:03:54 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-169-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:39 kingping [~kp@95.70.80.122] has joined #scheme 11:04:44 Hello ! 11:05:23 Will using #!r6rs make my code more portable across various Scheme implementations? 11:05:45 no 11:06:03 alvatar [~alvatar@119.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:10:04 Ok, across implementations supporting R6RS. 11:11:06 only if you use "pure" r6rs 11:11:30 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 11:11:53 Yep. 11:14:08 I expect functions like `put-u8` be available for implementations supporting R6RS. 11:17:24 soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 11:17:25 hi 11:17:49 how could I have a repl that outputs pictures? 11:18:10 download Racket 11:19:51 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 11:22:36 lolcow [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:23:00 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@119.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:23:00 -!- kingping [~kp@95.70.80.122] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:23:00 -!- mmc [~michal@109.112.89.51] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:23:00 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:23:00 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:23:00 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:23:00 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:23:00 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-0-142.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:25:58 m`` this looks good ty 11:26:40 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 11:28:43 alvatar [~alvatar@119.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:29:19 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:29:26 is it possible to get just R5RS + slideshow? 11:29:26 well I don't really know hat is going on here 11:30:29 metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has joined #scheme 11:31:15 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-0-142.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:31:16 mmc [~michal@109.112.89.51] has joined #scheme 11:32:02 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 11:37:59 -!- csmrfx [csmr@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:39:49 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.133.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:39:57 -!- linkd is now known as __name__ 11:40:09 -!- __name__ is now known as linkd 11:41:25 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-83-253.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:48:11 how do you tell SYSTEM about $PATH? 11:48:17 it's saying sh: latex: command not found 11:48:27 but I have that in /usr/texbin/latex 11:49:01 http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/runtime.html PUTENV from here? I guess 11:51:10 (that works) 12:00:47 but how do you read the output from the port that PROCESS gives? 12:02:57 I wish there was a procedure that just gives the whole output at once 12:04:03 oh PORT->LINES does it 12:05:44 I seem to have crashed racket 12:07:52 csmrfx [csmr@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #scheme 12:20:23 if I have a string like "aonuafonu&foo;" but the "&xx;" might not be there - how would you chop it off? 12:21:21 all I can think of is using string->list 12:27:07 this is what my script does http://i.imgur.com/DQxdn.png 12:28:28 soupdragon pasted "latex typesetting in the REPL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/113211 12:28:47 any suggestions? 12:33:41 kar8nga [~kar8nga@k-213.vc-graz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 12:40:23 -!- maker2 [~maker@host235-82-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:54:23 SinDoc [~SinDoc@109.128.212.44] has joined #scheme 12:59:14 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@109.128.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:03:35 -!- soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:05:21 soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 13:11:02 copumpkin [~pumpkin@94.166.44.231] has joined #scheme 13:11:19 -!- waltermai [~walt@c-68-54-64-79.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:14:15 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:15:04 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:18:49 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.187] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:08 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 13:22:04 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 13:27:48 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 13:29:30 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:29:35 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 13:30:06 rotty-web [8dc96d8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.201.109.140] has joined #scheme 13:31:38 foof: I'm thinking about implementing serializing and reinstating a continuation in chibi scheme. how do you think about feasibility of this, and do you have any tips on how to approach this problem? 13:35:03 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:19 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:45:06 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:45:27 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 13:45:31 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 13:56:37 SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has joined #scheme 14:01:51 ventonegro [~alex@200.150.183.81] has joined #scheme 14:08:27 -!- Checkie [3703@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:17:27 fowlduck [~fowlduck@2002:cc0f:6d26:0:fa1e:dfff:fed7:9dc1] has joined #scheme 14:18:18 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-91.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:22:03 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 14:25:30 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has left #scheme 14:26:04 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 14:42:17 rotty-web: You would need to serialize the environment, which would be made easier once I provide fasl loading. 14:43:16 (`Fast-loading loading'?) 14:43:17 Although as a potential optimization you could save references to global variables as their module+name. 14:46:09 foof: you're going to provide FASL? very nice 14:50:24 It's probably getting pushed to 0.5, I'm trying to wrap up 0.4 now before I add more features. 15:02:34 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:53 -!- mmc [~michal@109.112.89.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:59 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 15:09:26 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 15:27:22 mmc [~michal@109.112.160.45] has joined #scheme 15:33:47 waltermai [~walt@c-68-54-64-79.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:36:54 Now that's interesting. The System V x86 ABI says that arguments reside in the caller's stack frame. I knew that the callee had to preserve esp,[*] but I assumed that it was also not allowed to modify the contents of the locations on the stack in the caller's frame where the arguments reside. But I just caught GCC generating code to do precisely that. 15:37:12 Riastradh: lots of people discussing the Data.Map bug now on libraries@ :) thanks agian 15:37:15 *again 15:38:05 [*] As an aside, this, together with the fact that esp on entrance to a subroutine is a function of (1) the position and size caller's frame, and (2) the number of arguments passed, implies that the ABI precludes proper tail recursion. 15:38:16 copumpkin, neat. Does that mailing list have an archive? 15:38:40 s/size caller's frame/size of the caller's frame/1 15:45:57 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@119.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:48:26 Riastradh: yep! http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/libraries/ 15:49:19 Riastradh: and ticket was opened http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/4242 15:52:23 Great. Now that someone has gone and fixed the math I was worried about, can someone fix the ABI question I'm worried about? 15:52:47 which is that? 15:53:09 *Riastradh* points upward half a page in the channel. 15:53:29 oh :) 15:57:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:25 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-188-109.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03:37 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@k-213.vc-graz.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:16 -!- rotty-web [8dc96d8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.141.201.109.140] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:09:09 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:09:13 sladegen_ [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 16:12:21 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-1-244.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:16:19 -!- IJP [~Ian@86.184.83.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17:36 IJP [~Ian@host81-159-206-39.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] 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