00:01:55 paperkettles [~chris@ip72-195-132-159.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #scheme 00:05:12 -!- fowlduck [~fowlduck@2002:cc0f:6d26:0:fa1e:dfff:fed7:9dc1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:13 -!- paperkettles [~chris@ip72-195-132-159.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:06:19 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 00:09:58 -!- Mr-Cat [5f1f0439@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.31.4.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:17 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-0-142.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:12:47 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@7-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:15:30 paperkettles [~chris@ip72-195-132-159.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #scheme 00:17:03 _danb_ [~user@124.149.177.177] has joined #scheme 00:23:22 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-109.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:26:04 I'm reading through js-port of box2d 00:26:31 that's ugly to read since it looks like being half-generated from c++ code. :/ 00:27:02 dumbness like having classes instead of closures remain. 00:27:14 ugly return arrays 00:27:22 instead of directly returning an array 00:27:37 doubly linked lists, likely from some reason though. 00:28:06 I'm surprized it runs with performance I've seen. 00:28:54 figuring there might be perhaps nice stuff coming out of cleaned box2d -code, written in dynamic language. 00:30:37 _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 00:39:39 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:58:51 -!- Cheery [~cheery@a88-113-49-213.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:03:58 -!- _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:05:38 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 01:17:59 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:18:02 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:34:54 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 01:38:55 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:41:18 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:48:50 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:50:02 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 02:00:21 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:11:56 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:12:14 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:12:53 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:17:31 _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 02:21:39 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 02:36:45 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:44:57 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 02:46:03 -!- _Pb [~pb@75.131.194.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:48:15 BW^- [~Miranda@92.81.218.45] has joined #scheme 02:49:07 -!- BW^- [~Miranda@92.81.218.45] has quit [Client Quit] 02:51:20 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 02:52:24 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176193088.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:40 timj__ [~timj@e176193088.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:57:43 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:01:38 GMP, on applications supplying a memory allocator to the GMP library: `There's currently no defined way for the allocation functions to recover from an error such as out of memory; they must terminate program execution.' I thought GMP wasn't supposed to be a stupid library. 03:05:22 It's not obvious what to do. You can return NULL, but that only puts off the evil day, because C programmers simply don't check returns from allocation functions. 03:05:41 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:06:24 i always have 03:06:29 The only sensible thing to do is to release any intermediate resources and deliver the error to the caller, who will proceed to trigger a garbage collection and retry. 03:07:07 GMP would have a leg to stand on blaming C programmers for being lazy and not checking for allocation failures, if GMP didn't have this ridiculous bug in it itself. 03:08:40 Most code lacks a garbage collector to trigger. 03:09:58 So? If the caller is out of memory and can't proceed, then it can fail. That doesn't absolve GMP of its responsibility to behave like a reasonable library. 03:11:06 It's very common for code to have a function xmalloc that invokes malloc and exits if it returns NULL, and then use that throughout. 03:11:26 Yes, in applications. That's not reasonable in libraries. 03:11:27 GMP is a library. 03:12:37 I'd rather have a proper traceable failure than an untraceable failure due to a null-pointer dereference. 03:13:02 Then check for allocation failure! 03:13:28 numerical code probably is slightly faster without all the tests :) 03:13:47 More to the point, if your library provides hooks for custom allocation functions, it ought to handle a NULL return sensibly and return an error from the library call that caused the failed allocation. 03:14:00 Here are the two options. (1) The library assumes allocation succeeds. (2) The library informs the caller of allocation failure. What are the possible consequences of these two options? Let's see: 03:14:27 It's not sane to expect that a collection can be done at the point where the allocator is called. 03:15:17 (1) You can't use the library in a garbage-collected environment. Sloppy code may deliver a nice error report, or it may not, because it's sloppy anyway. (2) You can use the library in a garbage-collected environment. Sloppy code may deliver a nice error report, or it may not, because it's sloppy anyway. 03:15:33 Which of these two options leads to the desirable outcome? Hint: It's not (1). 03:15:53 *offby1* scratches head 03:16:02 I'll give you three guesses, offby1! 03:16:48 I'm going to guess "dandruff". 03:18:30 (2) 03:18:33 *offby1* chews nails 03:18:35 By the way, I neglected to quote the following sentence from the GMP manual: `A ``longjmp'' or throwing a C++ exception will have undefined results.' 03:18:58 Wow, offby1! 03:19:03 *Riastradh* hands offby1 an electronic cookie. 03:19:03 However, googling suggests that if compiled with -fexceptions, C++ exceptions are in fact propagated through libgmp correctly. 03:20:12 http://gmplib.org/list-archives/gmp-discuss/2008-December/003479.html et seqq. 03:21:07 offby1, here you go: Set-Cookie: NID=37=KG3IUQR72txlAIScefJ0XY6AY-C_QRm1xJLtL6kaRYGuf0mnOMXTG20-2bm7xIbPVD1X-uASngTtZGPbV_F5CE4t9cHrs0C8LeErdiU_5Q-bIoRhPIysKNRPihpDu704; expires=Wed, 02-Feb-2011 03:20:37 GMT; path=/; domain=.google.com; HttpOnly 03:21:53 jcowan, not necessarily. Does GMP never use temporary intermediate storage? 03:22:27 If it ever allocates temporary storage, and fails to release that storage, then non-locally exiting from the allocation routine is a bug, because it leaks that temporary storage. 03:23:16 Why would you use GMP anyway? 03:23:47 I hear it's supposed to be fast and kept up to date with the latest fashions in bignum algorithms. 03:24:22 The lowest-level GMP functions don't do allocation, so they are safe. 03:24:35 (That is, you do the allocation yourself, and Ghu help you if you overrun it.) 03:25:09 Reference? 03:26:04 http://gmplib.org/manual/Low_002dlevel-Functions.html#Low_002dlevel-Functions 03:26:04 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2apn9ar 03:26:31 "limbs" = bigits. 03:26:40 Where does it say that these don't allocate? 03:26:47 I searched for the string `alloc' and found nothing in that node. 03:27:35 I see: `It is the responsibility of the caller to ensure that the destination has enough space for storing the result.' 03:28:45 It's conceivable that one of those routines allocates internally, but I very much doubt it. 03:29:13 .oO( jcowan's limbs are bigots? ) 03:29:30 Rhymes with widget, foof. 03:29:37 Or digit, more to the point. 03:30:05 What do you have against midgets anyway?! :O 03:37:05 *jcowan* refuses to dignify etc. etc. 03:40:09 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:41:47 mpn/generic/mul_fft.c allocates memory. 03:44:15 efficient mul/div are unlikely to be able to work entirely in-place 03:44:40 Sure, that's reasonable; it's just GMP's constraints on the custom allocators that are unreasonable. 03:48:21 So I don't think even using the mpn subset of the library will suffice. 03:48:32 Various other parts of mpn/generic also allocate memory. 03:48:55 (mul_fft.c was just the first one that grep turned up; I had to grep slightly deeper to find the others.) 03:49:29 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:49:40 That's frustrating. 03:50:28 What are you using GMP for? 03:50:50 Just getting an idea of what the right way to do bignums in a Scheme system is. 03:51:30 I would think it would be anything but GMP :) 03:51:47 For the reasons I just stated, or for other reasons? 03:52:21 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:52:32 The reasons you stated, and because if performance really is your concern you'd probably get much better results tightly integrating the bignum implementation with the core. 03:53:28 How much tighter than calling the mpn routines after in-line fixnum arithmetic overflows? 03:54:37 Well, for example you need to wrap the mpn routines to normalize back to fixnums. 03:57:22 Control of memory is also important. If you know a bignum doesn't escape, you can modify it in place. But this is an optimistic optimization, and only applies if the new value fits in the old - with the mpn routines, you have to guarantee up-front that the destination can hold the result. 03:58:53 *foof* wanders off in search of food 04:00:53 bweaver [~user@c-68-60-0-190.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:02:34 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:10:11 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-63-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:14:29 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-149-113.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 04:15:09 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-149-113.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:04 -!- foof [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:26:01 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 04:40:48 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-111-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:41:06 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-111-144.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:44:47 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:02:07 -!- bweaver [~user@c-68-60-0-190.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:05:52 foof [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 05:10:39 R3curs1v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 05:12:08 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:12:13 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 05:12:29 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:12:31 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 05:12:39 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 05:22:39 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:40 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:24:48 -!- R3curs1v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:58 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-23-121-25.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:26:20 Anyone know of a tool to grep for overloaded operators in C++? 05:26:54 e.g. find all occurrences of x << foo, where foo is of type Foo? 05:27:48 -!- neilv [~user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #scheme 05:36:13 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.166.54.94] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 05:39:11 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 05:43:10 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:44:16 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 05:44:27 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 05:45:31 -!- mauke [~mauke@p3m/member/mauke] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:45:47 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@2607:f2c0:f00e:500:222:15ff:fe91:b24c] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:46:18 mauke [~mauke@p3m/member/mauke] has joined #scheme 05:49:41 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 05:53:41 when would Multiple Values be useful? 05:59:37 when you want to return multiple values, and a collection isn't appropriate 06:00:21 take split-at from srfi 1 - it splits a list at an index and returns the two lists 06:01:08 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:01:53 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:03:05 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #scheme 06:03:31 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:05:47 IJP: hmm, for split-at, it doesn't seem to have much difference from returning as a list. 06:07:15 sure, you could have it return a list of two lists, but multiple values makes the intent clearer 06:07:37 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 06:08:19 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 06:10:08 another advantage would be that if you return two values where only one is expected, an error would be raised. If you were [ab]using lists you would need to include that yourself 06:10:44 rudybot: eval (+ (values 1 2) 3) 06:10:46 IJP: your sandbox is ready 06:10:46 IJP: error: context expected 1 value, received 2 values: 1 2 06:11:48 of course, that would also fail with a list, but you get the idea 06:15:09 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:17:36 actually, according to the r6rs, "the effect of passing an inappropriate number of values to such a continuation is undefined", so I guess that wasn't the best example 06:18:50 maybe only for "natural" situations, such as split-at, values becomes useful. 06:20:35 It'll generally be obvious to you when a function needs to return multiple values, so I'd say don't worry about them too much 06:21:18 thanks for explanation! 06:22:18 no problem 06:25:40 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:35:49 masm [~masm@bl19-128-18.dsl.telepac.pt] has 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connection] 16:26:40 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 16:29:22 -!- jao [~user@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:30:04 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 16:31:05 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:33:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-33.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 16:38:01 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:39:01 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 16:40:04 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 16:40:11 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 16:40:18 nice bots 16:40:45 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:54 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:46:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:13 REPLeffect 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#scheme 18:23:45 weinholt! you old son of a gun! i had a lot of questions about scheme from our last chat about scheme 18:23:50 are you ready to answer more questions? 18:25:07 Wow! foof's software on #scheme! 18:27:33 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-246-180.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:34:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:37:56 -!- _danb_ [~user@124.149.177.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:41:32 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@87.222.127.0] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:47:03 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:57 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 19:19:17 pavelludiq [~user@87.246.26.183] has joined #scheme 19:28:32 incubot: Spider size is a question of gravity 19:28:35 (define (create-gameworld-physics world-object (gravity 9.81))) 19:36:33 fod [~fod@92.251.255.7.threembb.ie] has joined #scheme 19:39:35 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:25 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 19:48:57 -!- hat0 [~hat@cpe-67-9-132-238.austin.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 19:50:27 saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:57:35 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:02:31 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-125.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:06:08 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-170.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:14:34 bamccaig [~bamccaig@unaffiliated/bamccaig] has joined #scheme 20:15:00 There seem to be a lot of interpreters for scheme and no particular 'official' one. Which one should one choose to learn with? 20:15:35 I typically recommend Racket, which is a dialect of Scheme. http://www.racket-lang.org/ 20:17:47 I'm more interested in a "pure" implementation, if such a thing exists... o_O 20:18:09 No such thing exists! 20:18:13 bamccaig, wtf are you doing here 20:18:26 you gonna use scheme at work now? 20:18:48 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-246-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:20:08 jonrafkind: No, on my server. :) At least, I want to learn it cause I've heard it's "enlightening". :D 20:20:33 you should work through the exercises from htdp.org with racket 20:21:11 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-246-180.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:21:15 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-246-180.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:21:55 jonrafkind: The solutions are password protected. >:( 20:22:01 use yer brain! 20:22:45 jao [~user@203.Red-88-6-160.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:29:43 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has joined #scheme 20:30:09 gnomon: What do you mean by "pure"? In the sense of side-effect free? 20:30:50 *bamccaig* was looking for something accepted as THE scheme interpreter or implementation. 20:31:01 I suppose that doesn't exist... 20:31:30 No. If it helps, Racket is THE implementation of Racket. 20:33:13 chandler, I mean that I don't know of a Scheme implementation which restricts itself to implementing nothing more than R5RS, plus a perfectly comprehensive list of the ways in which items left as "implementation details" have been integrated into the system. 20:33:29 gnomon: Whoops. I meant to ask that question to bamccaig, not you. 20:33:51 I saw your response on the next line and had an output buffer underrun at that moment. 20:35:17 Ah, my apologies for stomping on your buffer pointers. 20:36:23 :D 20:36:29 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 20:36:51 Can't we at least start a flamewar about implementations. D: This channel seems so indifferent. 20:37:28 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has joined #scheme 20:38:28 bamccaig, you could look at RABBIT, the original implementation (in MACLISP) from Steele's thesis. 20:38:52 If anything counts as THE implementation of Scheme, that's IT. 20:39:09 he should have said the "at least r5rs" implementation of scheme 20:40:05 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:27 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has joined #scheme 20:40:30 standards-based development: first we get everyone to agree on the thing, then we see if the damn thing works. 20:40:32 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:57 sounds like the waterfall method 20:42:12 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:32 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has joined #scheme 20:44:28 -!- justicefries_ [~thefry@173-14-6-4-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: justicefries_] 20:47:05 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-125.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:50:04 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:04 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 20:51:09 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 20:55:07 Thanks for the help. :) 20:55:09 -!- bamccaig [~bamccaig@unaffiliated/bamccaig] has left #scheme 20:55:19 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 21:04:42 bgs100 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-mvocagowihqkbozd] has joined #scheme 21:07:15 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-33.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:19:14 schmir [~schmir@p54A90647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:23:21 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-78-45.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 21:23:28 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-9.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:04 justicefries_ [~thefry@173-14-6-4-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 21:40:41 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:40:44 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:19 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 21:42:26 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 21:51:31 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #scheme 21:52:45 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:24 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 21:58:08 Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 22:00:54 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:03:02 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06:12 -!- fod [~fod@92.251.255.7.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:52 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:17:49 Riastradh: http://hg.mozilla.org/tracemonkey/file/898ab54a0ce9/js/src/jsval.h#l240 22:18:21 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:57 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:52 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:15 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:39:52 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 22:47:09 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.11/2010071400]] 22:49:52 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adafe9d.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 22:53:38 -!- EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:56:46 EbiDK [~ebi@3e6b7ac3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #scheme 22:58:57 Somelauw [~anonymous@084-246-052-113.PN.NL] has joined #scheme 22:59:19 What is the best scheme implementation? Is scheme better than common lisp? 23:01:17 The best Scheme implementation is Larceny. Scheme is better than Common Lisp. 23:01:31 I am lying. 23:01:40 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:02:16 scheme is better than common lisp because it's less like perl 23:04:09 mauke, sounds convincing :P 23:04:15 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:05:35 gnomon, but I am on 64-bit. 23:06:57 Somelauw, racket 23:07:33 gnomon, oh I see there is also a cross-platform variant 23:10:46 open [~cutintape@unaffiliated/open] has joined #scheme 23:22:00 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:24:19 I'd say Racket (see #racket) is a pretty good lisp to get started with. 23:24:33 depends what you're trying to do with it, too. 23:24:45 for unix systems programming, you might be better off with chicken. 23:25:01 I'm told gambit also has some whizzbang IDE. 23:29:56 I am on ubuntu (unix-like). I already installed plt-scheme, but wondered whether that is what everyone is using. 23:31:58 arcfide [~arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-210.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:34:51 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.49] has joined #scheme 23:35:07 everyone is different. 23:35:11 (I'm not!) 23:40:47 -!- pavelludiq [~user@87.246.26.183] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:50:24 is htdp better than sicp for learning racket? 23:51:02 faure: Neither is really something to learn Racket. 23:51:16 faure: Both are books for teaching you how to program. 23:51:24 k 23:52:18 faure, htdp is easier to understand than sicp 23:52:30 usually 23:53:24 yeah, I have read some sicp in the past, but now I just want something practical for getting stuff done in racket. I'm working through the continue tutorial 23:53:39 oh for practical stuff just read the racket docs 23:53:45 If you just want to get things done, it's better to read the Racket documentation. 23:57:02 cool 23:59:11 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme