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That is, to encrypt a file with a pass phrase, with no PKI involved. 02:59:28 I'm leaning toward the latter two options, but the first one is always possible. 03:00:06 Oh, I would like a MAC on the thing, too -- but no public keys involved. 03:09:42 GnuPG's docs are hopeless 03:10:59 Yes, that's why I just used the source to confirm that it is, in fact, the third option, as far as I can tell. 03:11:23 Not that the documentation should be absolved from failing to mention the absurd fact that GnuPG is incapable of producing the sequence of packets I requested. 03:13:47 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-0-142.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:34 mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:18 _danb_ [~user@124.149.177.177] has joined #scheme 03:29:28 -!- mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:37:06 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:45:38 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:48:25 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@94.164.127.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:50:39 gpg's docs are indeed nigh useless 03:51:09 as is emacs with the default screen control char bound to ^a 03:51:14 brb 03:51:20 -!- foof [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:51:41 araujo_ [~araujo@61.173.116.67] has joined #scheme 03:51:44 emacs drives men mad 03:51:50 foof [~user@li126-140.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 03:52:41 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:45 -!- araujo_ [~araujo@61.173.116.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:55 zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 03:53:01 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:53:24 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 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-!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-222-164.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 07:34:35 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #scheme 07:45:34 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-91-83.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #scheme 08:02:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 08:50:09 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57:45 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@7-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 09:01:14 -!- rm_ [614c3062@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.76.48.98] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:16:19 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:32:35 nAgoHaK [~nagohack@unaffiliated/nagohak] has joined #scheme 09:33:02 what is the best ide for mac ? 09:34:31 for mac what? 09:34:34 Xcode 09:35:08 Otherwise, I keep using emacs whatever the workstation. 09:35:12 to use with scheme 09:35:33 Or you may use DrScheme on all your workstations. 09:36:16 can I use xcode with scheme? 09:36:24 I don't think so. 09:36:59 ok, but something better than DrScheme(Racket) ? 09:37:32 I don't know if there's something better. 09:37:55 ok. thanks 09:38:19 kingping [~kp@95.70.82.22] has joined #scheme 09:38:23 Hello folks 09:38:27 pjb: but how to configure emacs for scheme? 09:38:57 (setq inferior-lisp-program "/usr/bin/mzscheme") M-x inferior-lisp RET 09:39:35 Should I worry when I issue `length` on a list, do lists internally have a length filed or their length is evaluated each time I call `length` on them? 09:39:56 kingping: they don't have. length is O(n). 09:40:11 lists are chains of pairs. 09:40:23 Nothing more, nothing less. 09:40:53 pjb: So, probably the best solution is to bind the `length` results and reuse them later. 09:41:00 Yes. 09:41:05 Okay, thanks :] 09:41:42 kingping: notice however that while you don't call length in a loop, your algorithm will still be no worse than O(n) or what it was originally. 09:42:03 string-length, on the other hand, is usually O(1) (unlike strlen), but that's not guaranteed. 09:42:05 I see. 09:42:46 vector-length too will be O(1) 09:43:37 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 09:44:18 pjb: Oh, the same question is true about bytevectors then. I just thought I'd need to sum up all bytes while I'm constructing the bytevector so that I don't need to calculate its length later. 09:46:27 I'm unaware of any implementions where vector-length is O(n), except maybe Scheme9. 09:50:10 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:48 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 10:15:20 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:30 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 10:35:52 moell [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 10:40:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:42:59 How do I "unquote" say '(42 666 777) ? 10:43:36 So that I can use `list?` against unquoted expression. 10:46:18 (apply 'list '(42 666 777)) 10:46:51 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-49-233.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:48:26 kingping: I don't understand your question. (list? '(42 666 777)) is #t 10:48:49 IJP: Oops 10:48:57 (map 'list? '(42 666 777)) ? 10:49:58 So (list? (list 42 666 777)) is. 10:50:21 (list? (apply 'list '(42 666 777))) But (list? (list anything)) always returns true. 10:51:28 And (list? '(list 42 666 777)) 10:51:31 is #t 10:51:43 Yes, since (list 42 666 777) is a list. 10:52:06 Yes, since (list 42 666 777) IS a list. Irrelevant what it may return when evaluated, since it's quoted in (list? '(list 42 666 777)). 10:52:13 kingping: yes, it is a list of four elements 10:52:34 I'd just like to pass a list to my function and say that it should be treated something different than list. 10:53:24 kingping: still not making sense. 10:53:37 What do you mean by "it should be treated something different than list"? 10:54:07 I think it means he wants a convenient syntax for a custom type 10:54:16 |12:43| ( kingping) How do I "unquote" say '(42 666 777) ? 10:54:21 Sounds like he wants "eval" 10:54:33 pjb: Uhm, I have a generic function which accepts a datum and should process it based on its type. I have list processing routine, and would like to have a different routine which treats lists a bit different way. 10:55:49 Then: (define (my-generic-function object) (cond ((list? object) (process-differently object)) (else (process object)))) 10:56:13 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:57:15 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 10:58:15 pjb: But I'd like to pass the list but treat it a bit differently. Surely, I could just use some complex list, which has hypothetic 'treat-me-different-way symbol as its first element, but it would complicate the design for the end user: they wouldn't be able to use 'treat-me-different-way symbol as a first element in the list. 10:59:06 pjb: I understand what are you talking about. 10:59:06 kingping: ok, you would want to differentiate a list obtained by quote from a list built with list? 10:59:27 kingping: but the reader will use list to build the list returned by quote! 10:59:36 kingping: therefore there is no way to differentiate them. 10:59:42 I don't know ATM, I'm just looking the way I'd go. 10:59:46 kingping: at least on most implementation. 11:00:08 (equal? '(a b c) (list 'a 'b 'c)) is true! 11:00:35 Don't want to require the user to use different functions for the objects processing. 11:00:55 Like IJP suggested, you could use a macro to distinguish a call (m '(a b c)) from a call (m (list 'a 'b 'c)) or (m my-list) 11:00:56 Yes. I already know it. :/ 11:01:13 ah, let me see. 11:01:15 kingping: Why not use something else than lists? Lists are lists, but vectors are not lists 11:01:16 but then you couldn't distinguish (let ((mylist '(a b c))) (m mylist)) from (let ((mylist (list 'a 'b 'c))) (m mylist)). 11:02:23 I've just thought of some kind of tagging the list. 11:02:34 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #scheme 11:02:44 kingping: a generic function is just a function that tests the type of its arguments to do something specific for each type. 11:02:48 Maybe putting it to some other kind of object I'm not going to process. 11:02:54 kingping: what are your distinct types? 11:03:58 List, Tuple, Bignum, Fixnum. 11:04:05 What is a tuple? 11:04:06 #f, #t 11:04:17 A tuple is an Erlang term. 11:04:27 Whatever. What lisp type is it? 11:04:29 > List, Tuple <- I think we see the problem 11:04:35 And probably exists in Python. 11:04:39 Are you using lists to represent both? 11:04:57 pjb: It's very close to lists. 11:05:07 kingping: in lisp it is either a list or it is not. 11:05:18 There is no "closeness" of lisp type. 11:05:22 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:05:43 kingping: tuples are more like vectors; afaik tuples cannot be added to or removed from - they have a fixed length 11:05:45 So how did you define your tuples? 11:06:09 sjamaan: Yes, you're correct. 11:06:23 So just use vectors to represent them and you're done :) 11:06:33 I'm sorry for not being clear. 11:06:36 (set! sjamaan (+ sjamaan 1)) 11:06:36 notice that if you implement typles as vectors, you will have the same problem when you want to dispatch on vectors vs. typles. 11:06:43 *sjamaan* mutates 11:06:52 If you have a specific typle type, make it a specific type! 11:07:00 (defstruct tuple elements) 11:07:28 pjb: I think vectors would do, since I'm not planning to handle them in any way. 11:07:32 pjb has a point, if you want to keep this open for vectors you need to do that 11:07:36 ok 11:10:11 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:11:15 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 11:13:14 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:14:03 ryoko-sha [~steve@ryoko-sha.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:15:50 sjamaan_ [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 11:16:08 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:16 -!- sjamaan_ is now known as sjamaan 11:16:27 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 11:16:27 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 11:19:22 `vector-length` is also O(n) ? I mean they don't have length field to peek. 11:19:58 It's internal, but it's there 11:20:05 So it's O(n) 11:20:14 eh, O(1) 11:20:53 "A vector typically occupies less space than a list of the same length, and the average time required to access a randomly chosen element is typically less for the vector than for the list." 11:20:59 I guess that's not guaranteed 11:21:14 But it'll be O(1) in your typical Scheme implementation 11:21:34 But it would be anyway better to bind results of vector-length, right? 11:21:41 ? 11:21:58 So that it's calculated once. 11:22:10 Its length. 11:23:07 If you use it several times in the same procedure, that might be useful, but I wouldn't worry about it too much 11:23:11 I mean `vector-length` will iterate over all vector. 11:23:55 -!- ryoko-sha [~steve@ryoko-sha.demon.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:24:19 Until it calculate its (vector's) length instead of just peeking hypothetical "length" field, associated with a vector. 11:30:00 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:30:34 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:32:23 karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 11:35:57 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 11:37:26 -!- cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: cky] 11:48:51 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:52:58 preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #scheme 11:53:22 Belaf [~campedel@194.209.131.192] has joined #scheme 11:53:36 -!- Belaf [~campedel@194.209.131.192] has left #scheme 11:54:56 kingping: if you have doubts and want to ensure O(1), you can always define your own structure and keep the length yourself. 11:55:37 kingping: anyways, in most cases, you will have more sophisticated data structures that already have some kind of length attribute. For example, allocated size vs. element count. 11:56:00 pjb: I've already decided I'll be happy with just one `vector-length` against incoming vector. 11:56:03 That's why it doesn't matter whether vector-length or length is O(1) or O(n). 11:56:15 Ok :-) 11:57:11 Thanks you all chaps for all and standing me, the stupid :D 11:57:37 kingping: so far your understanding speed is perfectly correct. We cannot call you stupid. 11:58:03 Sure. :> 12:01:03 -!- nAgoHaK [~nagohack@unaffiliated/nagohak] has quit [Quit: nAgoHaK] 12:12:18 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.52.177] has joined #scheme 12:46:23 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-177-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:50:38 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 13:08:29 -!- kingping [~kp@95.70.82.22] has quit [Quit: Vale.] 13:10:32 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-150-183.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:30:03 schmir [~schmir@p54A91114.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 13:34:20 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A91114.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:49:20 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-177-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:52:20 alvatar [~alvatar@47.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 15:04:24 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-91-83.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:10 -!- ASau` 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