00:00:08 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 00:08:34 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-247-126.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #scheme 00:14:46 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:16:33 carbocal` [~user@206-248-156-163.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:16:50 mmc [~michal@109.117.142.201] has joined #scheme 00:17:40 -!- carbocalm [~user@206-248-156-163.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:28:42 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:28:56 neilv [~user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:13 -!- mmc [~michal@109.117.142.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:34 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 00:44:03 I wodner if I can handle sicp 00:44:08 I guess I'll find out 00:56:33 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:59:55 R3cur51v3 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[~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #scheme 03:36:56 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:20 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:44:25 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:45:52 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-36-151.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:48:15 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:50 vishsingh [~vsingh@bas2-toronto10-2925235557.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 04:38:59 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@120.155.111.76] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 04:40:46 hohoho [~hohoho@airh128004095.mobile.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:43:00 saccade [~saccade@209-6-36-151.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:47:48 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-36-151.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:52:16 saccade [~saccade@209-6-39-179.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 04:55:07 -!- xissburg [~chatzilla@187.3.132.80] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 05:00:25 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.139.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:12:55 hohoho_ [~hohoho@airh128016001.mobile.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:13:00 You can't HANDLE the SICP. 05:13:48 *pizza_* picks it up 05:15:25 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@airh128004095.mobile.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:21:37 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 05:49:16 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:49:56 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-239-169.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:50:12 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-239-169.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:16:30 *metasyntax* wonders if you pronounce SICP like you do sexp 06:22:24 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:23:59 I started reading it, I just got to 1.1.4, so far I'm not lost! 06:24:02 :) 06:41:46 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 06:53:42 has anyone hear read simply scheme? 06:54:20 here* 06:54:34 im tired :\ 07:03:02 -!- mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #scheme 07:04:01 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:16:53 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:27:03 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #scheme 07:53:05 mmc [~michal@109.116.154.75] has joined #scheme 08:07:34 masm [~masm@bl16-197-19.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 08:14:01 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 08:18:38 -!- saccade 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13:49:02 e-future [~e-future@a89-152-184-50.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 13:49:03 -!- e-future [~e-future@a89-152-184-50.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Changing host] 13:49:03 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 13:52:31 vinjacob [~vinjacob@83.96.38.206] has joined #scheme 13:59:01 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:06:15 -!- incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 14:09:18 -!- mmc [~michal@109.112.25.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:14 incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 14:15:19 -!- vinjacob [~vinjacob@83.96.38.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:16:30 xissburg [~chatzilla@187.3.134.43] has joined #scheme 14:29:11 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:37:41 SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has joined #scheme 14:42:31 paint [~paint@unaffiliated/paint] has joined #scheme 14:43:06 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has left #scheme 14:43:15 SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has joined #scheme 14:47:18 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 15:00:01 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 15:03:03 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:30 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 15:08:28 xissburg pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112583 15:16:49 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:26:26 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 15:31:35 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:35:00 xissburg : maybe instead of ((_ (e)) (car e)) you meant ((_ (e0 e1)) 'e0) ? 15:35:47 xissburg: also, you probably don't want the quote in the macro invocation 15:36:21 *ski* thought that was the whole point .. 15:36:40 -!- PurplePanda [~PurplePan@unaffiliated/purplepanda] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:46 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 15:40:05 -!- pizza_ [pizza@poipu/supporter/pizza-milkshake] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:15 pizza_ [pizza@ool-457e8a75.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 15:46:09 ski: yea that is wrong. I have to use (e . rest), afaik 15:46:16 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has left #scheme 15:46:33 to match with a list 15:46:46 that could work as well 15:47:03 (.. or you could use a procedural macro system) 15:49:20 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 15:50:01 SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has joined #scheme 15:51:58 -!- pizza_ [pizza@ool-457e8a75.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:51:58 pizza_ [pizza@poipu/supporter/pizza-milkshake] has joined #scheme 16:04:59 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:27 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:13:04 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:36 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:50:49 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-173.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:51:04 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-173.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 16:53:38 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:12:51 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@235.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:20:34 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 17:20:48 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 17:25:19 moghar [~marcin@unaffiliated/moghar] has joined #scheme 17:28:14 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-83-37.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:43 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:29 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 17:53:24 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-31-82-252-253-94.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:44 mathk [~mathk@83.159.117.241] has joined #scheme 17:54:24 dzhus [~sphinx@89-178-241-97.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:01:35 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 18:02:57 saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:03:07 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-83-37.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:16:46 Dark-Star|away [~michael@HSI-KBW-085-216-084-235.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #scheme 18:18:41 -!- Dark-Star|away is now known as Dark-Star 18:26:54 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-173.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:26:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:27:19 ahc [~Antti@ip-87-108-75-67.customer.academica.fi] has joined #scheme 18:29:05 -!- offby1 is now known as lagniappe 18:29:17 what is happening here? http://pastie.org/1049523 18:29:24 it's Gambit 18:30:43 ahc: you're trying to invoke a procedure "1" with an argument "2". 18:30:51 Unfortunately for you, however, "1" is a number, not a procedure. 18:31:02 you probably meant ... 18:31:05 ahc: in scheme arguments are evaled before applied to a procedure 18:31:07 rudybot: eval (cons 1 '(1 2)) 18:31:14 lagniappe: your sandbox is ready 18:31:14 lagniappe: ; Value: (1 1 2) 18:31:44 ah, got it! thanks. 18:33:12 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-53-183.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:18 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-53-183.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36:46 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 18:38:48 Mr-Cat_ [5f1f0439@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.31.4.57] has joined #scheme 18:38:48 waltermai [~walt@c-68-54-64-79.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:42:51 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has quit [Quit: I must have accidentally left my workstation!] 18:44:16 mmc [~michal@109.117.197.19] has joined #scheme 18:44:52 SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has joined #scheme 18:51:54 -!- Mr-Cat_ [5f1f0439@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.31.4.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:57:51 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:57 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:00:07 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 19:07:16 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:08:18 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.89.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:39 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:47 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:13:16 anli_ [~anders@c-e419e155.1056-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:13:46 Is this the good way of incrementing a var: (define i (+ i 1))))) 19:13:53 oops, not all ):s 19:14:10 (define i (+ i 1)) 19:14:57 seems like it depends on the situation. are you incrementing in a recursive procedure? must i be passed between procedures? 19:15:41 Its a loop var 19:15:58 I intend to loop through all pixels in an image, its a try to write a gimp plugin 19:16:12 So I will probably use x and y instead 19:16:41 you probably mean (set! i (+ i 1)) 19:16:44 Komi [Komi@62.32.135.50] has joined #scheme 19:16:47 aha 19:16:48 (define (proc x y) ........(proc (+ x 1) y))? 19:17:00 but even thats sort of bad, you should use recursion if possible and pass in new values of i 19:17:05 ah 19:17:11 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #scheme 19:21:24 I like the recursion stuff, seems that the language "wants" that like prolog 19:21:36 I am a newcomer on scheme however 19:21:50 I don't know any prolog, but recursion is awesome, I agree. 19:22:12 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:22:12 Will that not make the stack demands go high? 19:22:17 Or how to express it 19:22:25 Will that not use a lot of stack space 19:22:50 No, provided that you use tail recursion. 19:23:12 as I understand it, practically all implementations optimize tail recursion, but hey, it ain't c or asm. 19:23:38 though many imps of scheme are written in c. 19:23:39 seems that any text editor without paren matching is not a text editor for scheme 19:23:50 aha 19:24:12 there's truth to that, but the better I get with scheme the less I depend on that feature. 19:24:23 Is there any scrip-fu coder here btw? 19:27:13 features beyond simple paren-matching, such as the structural editing provided by paredit are very helpful as well 19:28:53 what is scrip-fu? the gimp thing? 19:29:10 yeah 19:30:01 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 19:31:45 waltermai : implementations of Scheme are required to do proper tail recursion 19:32:45 ski, so perhaps I could've omitted the "practically" and been more concise. 19:34:26 (and btw, "proper tail recursion" actually refers to that *all* tail calls (not just recursive ones) must be "optimized" (it's not really an optimization, as it is required)) 19:35:18 ski, indeed, though the question was about tail recursion particularly. 19:37:12 karme [~user@stgt-5d84bdfc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #scheme 19:41:27 -!- mmc [~michal@109.117.197.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:44:12 Can this in any way be a start? http://nopaste.voric.com/paste.php?f=nh48r8 19:44:40 Remember that I am a newcomer 19:46:38 I get a message about image-height to be unbound when I try to run it 19:50:00 you have too many paranthesis on your let* 19:50:11 its (let* (variables) body) 19:50:16 anli_: the let*-s seems to be messed up 19:50:49 I've been doing without while and for for so long now they are making my head hurt to see them again. ;) 19:51:57 ah, seems that the let block must not finish until the locals has been used 19:52:31 So its (let (foo bar) and some more code that uses foo ) 19:52:45 (let ((foo bar)) blah) 19:53:10 ski pasted "sane indentation of anli_s paste" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112592 19:53:45 Whats sane with ))))) 19:53:46 :) 19:54:14 but if you say so 19:54:27 you can put spaces and newlines between them if you like to line them up vertically with the s-expressions they close. 19:54:36 ski: Did you turn off Scheme colorization on that paste, or is something afoul with lisppaste? 19:54:48 anli_: It is the idiomatic way to do it. Deviating from that will make your code hard to read for experienced lispers 19:55:14 aha, but I will not let one of those see it (more than I did when posting in this channel) 19:55:15 anli_: Mostly you should read scheme code by indentation, not counting parens 19:55:15 ....*nod sjamaan* ))))) isn't really so bad. :) 19:55:44 sjamaan, then my code was more "sane"? 19:55:45 anli_: Posting here counts, too :) 19:55:48 hehe 19:55:50 too bad 19:55:55 anli_: No, ski's code was sane 19:55:59 anli_: you are using some sensible editor? 19:56:24 gedit 19:56:26 :) 19:56:28 *waltermai* marvels at the connotations flying around 19:56:39 chandler : i used . i don't see any option for colorization there, apart from the channel selection 19:56:48 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-48-33.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:56:55 ski: Really? What browser are you using? 19:56:58 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-83-37.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57:01 w3m 19:57:04 Hm. 19:57:07 How are scheme and list related? 19:57:10 oops 19:57:11 lisp 19:57:22 .. er 19:57:25 Lisp is a family of languages. Scheme is a member of that family. 19:57:28 aha 19:57:39 hehe, scheme is a dialect of lisp. a lisp-1, to be more precise. 19:57:40 as butch relates to adams then 19:57:54 ski: Hm. Something must be buggy or broken with w3m then. I can't see why the option for colorization would be missing. 19:58:02 anli_: does gedit have some scheme/lisp plugin? 19:58:12 Seems like it has highlighting at least 19:58:18 chandler : sorry, obviously i'm going blind. now that i check again, i see `Colorize as: [None ]' .. i could have sworn there were no such entry the last time i looked 19:58:45 chandler: it would be nice if it autoselected colorization based on initial channel selection (I believe it used to do that, but no more) 19:58:55 anli_: i just launched gedit and first missed the feature matching parenthesis 19:59:15 karme, its not a default setting 19:59:24 So thats the first thing to configure 19:59:24 sjamaan: I see the problem. For some reason, both "None" and "Scheme" have the selected attribute. 19:59:31 Firefox is picking the second; w3m is obviously picking the first. 19:59:34 yikes 19:59:38 So does links 19:59:46 *karme* is using emacs 19:59:46 Buggy code. 20:00:12 Does the use of "car" here suggest that gimp-image-height returns a list? (let( (height (car (gimp-image-height image)))) )) 20:00:27 Now I know why I thought it used to do that before. I have occasionally used Firefox to paste, I guess it did the right thing then 20:00:58 anli_: It would, if that code was correct 20:01:05 Hm. That `if' obviously ought to be an `unless'. 20:01:10 It doesn't make sense though 20:01:22 Why would image-height return a list? 20:01:35 ski, sjamaan: how's it now? 20:01:45 chandler: Better :) 20:03:20 anli_: you could use lisppaste instead of that pastebin you used, it has proper highlighting for scheme: http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme 20:03:48 It is also automatically announced when you paste something 20:03:58 ani pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112593 20:04:20 Yikes. What are you using to edit this? 20:04:21 cool 20:04:34 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 20:04:46 It looks like a C programmer indented it :) 20:04:56 ok 20:05:13 Looks like someone that wants to know where blocks are indented it :) 20:05:43 well well, lets not discuss the whereabouts about the paster 20:06:04 hm, wonder if it is runnable 20:06:07 chandler : hm, i suppose this will not affect new annotations to the existing paste .. 20:06:25 anli_: in http://paste.lisp.org/display/112592 it's easy to find the blocks. Just visually check for indentations. Each indentation level is a new "block" 20:06:31 the indenting is ugly indeed 20:06:35 Error: Bad syntax of binding spec in let : pixel 20:06:36 (even though Scheme is not block-structured!) 20:06:42 anli_: (let (pixel (gimp-image-get-pixel image x y))) <- not good 20:06:55 anli_: (let (newpixel (transform pixel)) <- not good 20:07:06 not good <- not good 20:07:21 :) 20:07:26 anli_: (let ((...)) body) 20:07:26 ski annotated #112592 "probably more like what anli_ intended" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112592#1 20:07:26 anli_: Let accepts a list of variable/value items 20:07:37 it's (let ((identifier1 value1) (identifier2 value2) ...) body ...) 20:07:52 rotty: I use it like that 20:08:05 anli_: nah 20:08:05 anli_: Take another good look 20:08:12 aha 20:08:15 I will 20:08:15 (let (foo 1) ..) versus (let ((foo 1)) ...) 20:08:26 aha 20:08:33 sorry 20:08:44 sjamaan: Scheme isn't block-structured? That's news to me! 20:08:54 chandler: It's expression oriented 20:09:06 Maybe block-structured is the wrong term to use here? 20:09:12 (chandler : but, yes, better. thanks) 20:09:53 sjamaan: It's probably not what you're thinking of, no - particularly since the RnRS describes Scheme as being a language with block structure. :-) 20:10:00 :) 20:10:24 anli_: also take a look at ski's annotation -- that is way more readable for any Scheme programmer 20:10:37 chandler: The word for "making a distinction between statements and expressions" 20:10:39 r5rs: "The three binding constructs `let', `let*', and `letrec' give Scheme a block structure, like Algol 60." 20:11:12 *sjamaan* nods 20:11:15 My bad 20:11:29 :-)) 20:11:54 sjamaan: Ah, but Scheme makes that distinction too. 20:12:22 chandler: Can you give an example? 20:13:17 definitions vs. expressions 20:13:46 It's the difference between and in the grammar. 20:14:29 r5rs: "A Scheme program consists of a sequence of expressions, definitions, and syntax definitions." 20:15:53 hmm - no good fit ;-) 20:16:13 ah, the toplevel 20:16:15 choas [~lars@p5B0DFB96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:16:48 It's not just at the toplevel when you consider inner `define', too. 20:17:07 oh yeah, they're rewritten to expressions but are not expressions proper 20:17:36 anli_: does it work now? 20:18:44 anli pasted "more sane?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112594 20:19:07 now, I get Error: eval: unbound variable: gimp-image-get-pixel 20:19:30 karme: nope, but on the other hand, the transform function is empty 20:19:54 anli_: is there an api docu somewhere? 20:20:05 anli_: i mean the gimp api 20:20:21 Actually, there is a search engine built into gimp, so the function should exist 20:20:38 its called a "procedure browser" 20:20:45 *karme* launching gimp ... 20:21:17 under the help menu 20:22:31 looks like my gimp doesn't have gimp-image-get-pixel nor gimp-image-set-pixel 20:22:45 really? 20:22:46 yeah, mine neither (Gimp 2.6) 20:22:54 must check yet another time 20:23:15 Maybe you're looking for `gimp-drawable-set-pixel'? 20:23:18 true, its drawable 20:23:25 haha 20:25:08 is there a way to connect to the gimp scheme engine from within emacs? 20:25:42 User0009 [UNIX@p57A2F453.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:43 can i somehow launch the gimp listing on a socket? 20:26:12 maybe i should as that in #emacs 20:26:32 http://www.geekware.de/software/emacs/gimp-shell.el <-- this perhaps? 20:28:55 i first try: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GimpMode 20:29:51 looks more up-to-date indeed 20:30:58 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:31:06 ah: Gimp Mode can either run the Gimp as subprocess in Emacs, or connect as a client to the script-fu-server. 20:31:24 just ported my code from pltscheme to guile, was pretty easy, now I can use emacs! (am using lemote netbook with mips architecture, drracket won't build on it) 20:32:18 How do I make a function return the same that was coming as argument? 20:32:22 (foo) ? 20:32:28 or just foo 20:32:31 bbl all 20:33:42 (lambda l l) aka identity 20:34:41 karme: Uh, no, that's not right. 20:34:51 chandler: values? 20:35:00 anli_: Just `foo', if I understood you right. 20:35:08 karme: (lambda (x) x), though `values' works too. 20:35:18 (lambda l l) is `list'. 20:36:15 chandler: hmm but (lambda (x) x) won't return the same if a list applied 20:36:22 ? 20:36:31 rudybot: eval ((lambda (x) x) '(1 2 3 4 5)) 20:36:34 chandler: your sandbox is ready 20:36:34 chandler: ; Value: (1 2 3 4 5) 20:37:24 -!- waltermai [~walt@c-68-54-64-79.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:37:42 rudybot: eval (apply (lambda (x) x) '(1 2 3)) 20:37:44 karme: your sandbox is ready 20:37:44 karme: error: #: expects 1 argument, given 3: 1 2 3 20:37:49 Yes, and? 20:38:01 rudybot: eval (apply (lambda x x) '(1 2 3)) 20:38:01 karme: ; Value: (1 2 3) 20:38:10 chandler: ah, ok 20:38:13 chandler: your are righ 20:38:15 +t 20:38:20 karme: `list' isn't normally thought of as an identity function. 20:38:27 chandler: my fault 20:38:32 chandler: yes 20:38:36 Though you could say it's the identity function for `apply'. 20:39:24 -!- SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:45 SinDoc [~SinDoc@213.49.145.54] has joined #scheme 20:40:14 -!- xissburg [~chatzilla@187.3.134.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:41:10 Is there a cadddr function? 20:41:14 *karme* never uses values and prefers to use list for multiple return 20:41:15 It doesnt highlight for me 20:41:35 rudybot: eval cadddr 20:41:36 lagniappe: ; Value: # 20:41:48 anli_: rudybot seems to think so 20:41:55 aha 20:42:05 thx 20:42:34 rudybot: eval some-random-identifier 20:42:35 lagniappe: error: reference to undefined identifier: some-random-identifier 20:42:37 rudybot: eval who-would-have-thought-there-would-be-a-predefined-function-with-such-a-long-name 20:42:38 lagniappe: error: reference to undefined identifier: who-would-have-thought-there-would-be-a-predefined-function-with-such-a-long-name 20:42:49 rudybot: eval who-would-have-thought-there-would-be-a-predefined-function-with-such-a-long-name 20:42:50 lagniappe: ; Value: # 20:43:11 hm, argument 1 of car must be "pair" 20:43:18 indeed 20:43:18 Strange, I thought it needed to be a list 20:43:23 lists are pairs. 20:43:29 some pairs, however, aren't lists. 20:43:31 *lagniappe* nods gravely 20:43:34 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 20:43:39 ok 20:43:47 rudybot: eval (car (cons 1 2)) 20:43:48 karme: ; Value: 1 20:43:49 rudybot: eval (pair? '(1 . 2)) 20:43:50 lagniappe: ; Value: #t 20:43:56 rudybot: eval (list? '(1 . 2)) 20:43:56 lagniappe: ; Value: #f 20:44:02 rudybot: eval (list? '(1 2)) 20:44:02 lagniappe: ; Value: #t 20:44:05 rudybot: eval (pair? '(1 2)) 20:44:05 lagniappe: ; Value: #t 20:44:18 the distinction is a little bit subtle; don't feel bad if you don't immediately understand it 20:45:16 anli pasted "trying even more" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112595 20:45:22 pairs are very basic, simple, fundamental things: just two values glued together. 20:45:38 a list with two elements then 20:45:40 You create a pair with "cons"; you get the first value back with "car", you get the second value back with "cdr". 20:45:45 That's pretty much all there is to know about pairs. 20:45:57 No, a pair is _not_ a list with two elements; it's a .... something-else with two elements :) 20:46:02 rudybot: eval (cons 1 (cons 2 '())) 20:46:02 karme: ; Value: (1 2) 20:46:04 lists are a special case of pairs: 20:46:08 ok 20:46:22 lists are pairs where the second element is either the special value '(), or else it's a list. 20:46:26 Note the recursive definition. 20:46:33 Oh, and '() is itself a list. 20:46:34 I think. 20:46:39 rudybot: eval (list? '()) 20:46:39 lagniappe: ; Value: #t 20:46:41 yep 20:46:52 so I'd change my definition; 20:47:13 a list is either '() (colloquially called "the empty list"), or else it's a pair whose cdr is itself a list. 20:47:19 rudybot: eval (pair? '()) 20:47:20 lagniappe: ; Value: #f 20:47:29 -!- lagniappe is now known as lanyard 20:47:36 I'm in a nick-changing mood today. 20:48:59 A function is said to return two values, it returns a list with two elements then? 20:49:11 If I want the 2nd element, will I use cadr on the result then? 20:49:19 well ... 20:49:26 "return two values" is a little ambiguous. 20:49:33 rudybot: eval (let ((l (list 1 2))) (set-cdr! (cdr l) l) l) 20:49:33 karme: error: reference to undefined identifier: set-cdr! 20:49:33 It _might_ mean that it returns a list, or a pair. 20:49:39 But it more likely means something like this: 20:49:43 ok 20:49:51 rudybot: eval (define (returns-two-values) (values 'one 'two)) 20:49:51 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 20:49:53 lanyard: your sandbox is ready 20:49:54 rudybot: (returns-two-values) 20:49:55 lanyard: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 20:49:57 rudybot: eval (returns-two-values) 20:49:57 lanyard: ; Value: one 20:49:58 lanyard: ; Value#2: two 20:50:04 ski annotated #112592 "alternate ways of writing this" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/112592#2 20:50:11 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #scheme 20:50:33 anli_: can you show me the actual function in question? 20:50:44 the function that returns two values is internal 20:50:50 gimp-drawable-get-pixel 20:51:06 The first value is the number of channels for the pixel 20:51:12 anli_ : there's a few equivalent ways of writing your loop, for your pleasure 20:51:13 the 2nd seems to be a list with color componente 20:51:15 components 20:51:23 ok 20:51:30 sounds like it returns a list, I guess 20:51:45 ok 20:51:58 if I recall correctly, what the gimp calls "scheme" isn't really scheme; it's more like "some language that resembles scheme more than any other language" 20:52:06 ok 20:56:36 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-23-82-248-84-243.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:56:43 Ah, I found a really nice example of what I try to do 20:57:03 http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Sculpt_Texture_Export_Script_for_the_GIMP is my leading star for some time from now on 20:57:09 anli_ : btw, note that there's a nice "Annotate this paste"-button on your pastes, that you can use to annotate a paste with related pastes, instead of making new fresh ones all that time 20:57:18 aha 20:57:22 I like that 20:57:24 (that way, you can compare all the annotations for a paste on the same page) 20:57:35 How I hate the set! function 20:57:42 I like constants 20:57:46 don't use it ? 20:57:53 maybe a way 20:58:05 (also, strictly speaking, it's not a function) 20:58:11 aha 20:58:24 what is it then? 20:58:29 a language construct? 20:59:11 a punishment? ;) 20:59:14 it is syntax, like `if' and `define' and `lambda' and `cond' 20:59:17 ok 20:59:24 a language construct then, I suppose 20:59:30 if you will 20:59:36 :) 21:00:01 anli_ : did you note in my annotation, how you can e.g. use `do' or named-`let' to do your loops, while avoiding `set!' ? 21:00:22 actually not 21:00:30 but I am interested 21:00:45 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:00:48 see the link lisppaste provided some ~40 lines up 21:01:32 hm, thats cool 21:01:37 looking right now 21:01:44 do <-- for loop 21:01:56 I dont even have to declare x and y then? 21:02:16 `do' is syntax that declares its own looping variables 21:02:25 thats really nice 21:02:32 I switch to that 21:02:52 #e 21:03:15 in this case, each `do' only binds one variable, but you could easily have multiple variables (that advance "in parallel"), just like with `let' 21:03:40 (only this time, you also get to give a "step" expression for each variable) 21:03:45 r5rs do 21:03:46 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-7.html#%_idx_138 21:03:47 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/qfdonj 21:04:04 that explains the general syntax of `do' 21:04:14 hating set! shows you're cut out for scheme :) 21:04:28 however, /me dislikes "do" 21:04:35 can never remember the syntax 21:04:48 it's not *that* hard to remember 21:05:02 (and sometimes it fits quite nicely) 21:05:41 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 21:06:39 -!- ahc [~Antti@ip-87-108-75-67.customer.academica.fi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:07:13 (btw, note that to use the `iterate!' version, you will need to load into your Scheme system (as the documentation explains), and this requires that you have `define-syntax' and `syntax-rules' .. i mention this as i'm not sure whether script-fu supports the latter, out-of-the-box) 21:07:53 -!- User0009 [UNIX@p57A2F453.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:08:23 one thing to remember, with `do', is that the condition isn't when to go on, but rather when to terminate the loop 21:08:43 mmc [~michal@109.116.194.187] has joined #scheme 21:09:07 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-76-59.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 21:10:23 anli_ : you can also take note of the last two versions, using named-`let' and using simple recursive procedures 21:11:18 anli_ : in your case, the two former versions are probably clearer, but with some complex loops, its often easier to write it using named-`let' or explicitly 21:11:59 the last version is basically more or less what the named-`let' version expands to, so you could take that as an explanation of how named-`let' works 21:13:09 -!- mmc [~michal@109.116.194.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:14:20 -!- karme [~user@stgt-5d84bdfc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:54 mmc [~michal@109.116.194.187] has joined #scheme 21:17:00 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:23:17 -!- mathk [~mathk@83.159.117.241] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 21:25:06 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:29:31 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:19 mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:35:48 asarch [~asarch@187.132.138.254] has joined #scheme 21:37:55 -!- foof [~user@lain.inunome.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41:27 -!- lanyard is now known as offby1 21:47:38 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-232.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:54:06 jao [~user@14.Red-88-6-167.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:54:15 -!- moghar [~marcin@unaffiliated/moghar] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:56:12 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DFB96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:22 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:04 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:00 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:11:13 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:14 crazycaw [~frogscale@bl17-24-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 22:20:46 i only have 15 years old, but i know C, SICP is the best choise for learning Scheme and computer science in general? 22:21:23 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:22:47 its reasonable 22:22:58 C is probably the worst choice for learning computer science 22:23:18 i am learning Data Structure and Algorithms with C 22:23:26 why is the worst? 22:23:55 becuase you have to deal with things that aren't really related to basic computer science (like memory management) 22:24:44 so, i ony have 15 years old, i dont have a strong backgournd in maths, SICP is a good book? 22:25:21 not really.. htdp might be easier for you 22:25:46 SICP as a lot of maths exercices 22:27:38 I got a copy of SICP for some self study, I'm not that far into it yet, but I can confirm that it is definitely mathy 22:28:01 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.135.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:28:10 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@89-178-241-97.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:28:18 lisp itself is pretty 'mathy' though 22:28:40 I heard that the book is very good, if not the math is a nightmare I bought it 22:29:26 it's going to take me some careful reading to get throguh the book, surely 22:30:32 I'm doing it with a notebook, and a laptop with emacs/mit-scheme in front of me :) 22:31:24 ehhe Vim Rullez :P 22:32:26 crazycaw: http://racket-lang.org/download/ 22:33:55 yes, i know 22:34:12 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #scheme 22:34:12 -!- Dark-Star is now known as Dark-Star|Zzz 22:34:23 Recur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #scheme 22:34:49 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:17 so htdp 22:36:20 :) 22:37:44 htdp and then SICP? or htdp is just fine? 22:38:51 *ski* would try both .. 22:39:31 -!- Recur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:40:41 they are both available online, you could try one, and go with the other if you aren't happy 22:40:59 ok 22:41:00 whichever one you pick, just remember to write lots of programs 22:41:02 thanks 22:41:09 -!- crazycaw [~frogscale@bl17-24-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:43:33 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-57-42.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 22:51:18 And tip your waitress 22:52:25 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:27 :) 22:59:04 and look both ways before crossing the street 23:06:40 -!- mister_m [~matthew@c-71-201-6-9.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:10:46 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #scheme 23:17:36 -!- saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:23:31 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:25:04 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 23:26:05 waltermai [~user@c-68-54-64-79.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:36:21 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 23:36:58 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-106-4-84.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:36:59 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-197-19.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:44 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 23:45:26 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:52:04 mathk [~mathk@83.159.117.241] has joined #scheme