00:01:36 Do you ever wonder if it's you programming the program, or the language programming you? 00:04:17 Do you wonder that about natural languages? 00:04:37 I have spent many years thinking without language 00:05:08 Its impossible when working with language fulltime 00:05:35 off topic, so quicklu 00:05:42 Was that time disjoint from the amount of time spent in a state of sobriety? 00:06:35 not sure why would that be 00:07:05 the right side of the brain doesnt care for language so much 00:07:38 of course, if your dominant side is permanently left, maybe only inebriants help 00:11:29 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:13:00 -!- sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-161-17.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:14:59 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-161-17.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:16:35 csmrfx: Knowing just enough about neurobiology to be dangerous, I'm rather surprised by the assertion that one can spend years thinking without language. 00:16:53 we all have 00:16:59 not that its what I meant 00:17:11 -!- mmc1 [~michal@cs27122086.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17:46 but if you are working with/in images full time, then language may become secondary 00:18:11 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 00:19:32 I'm not sure how one would justify that statement, except through (essentially unreliable) introspective thinking. 00:19:52 Also, that's a rather glib rejection of Sapir-Whorf. 00:20:21 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:20:24 are you saying words or language are the reality 00:20:30 ha! 00:22:03 I'm not saying either. I was rather trying to suggest that it's not worth worrying too much about this. 00:22:04 perhaps you could 'justify' it through nonverbal communication 00:22:30 nothing to see here, move along 00:24:12 *csmrfx* snickers from behind the verbiage 00:24:49 -from 00:27:28 my only aim for learning scheme is actually making a hit online multiplayer game that will actually achive critical mass, singularity and become a sentient being. 00:28:15 That's nice. 00:34:07 I've heard worse 00:34:44 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-212.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:34:50 its been a long time since I've had massively parallel company 00:35:06 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-212.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:36:45 nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has joined #scheme 00:44:15 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:44:38 TR2N [email@89-180-206-33.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 00:47:19 _rata_ [~rata@pc-159-139-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #scheme 00:47:34 <_rata_> hi schemers :) 00:47:44 and racketeers 00:48:02 <_rata_> yes, and racketeers :) 00:48:25 <_rata_> are you one of those? 00:49:36 I guess 00:49:46 rudybot: eval (banner) 00:49:56 hey! rudybot! I'm talkin' to you 00:50:01 Reliable as ever, I see. 00:50:19 *offby1* fumes 00:51:25 *offby1* suspects rudybot is building scribble docs 00:52:02 -!- rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:52:14 rudybot [~luser@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:cde7] has joined #scheme 00:53:12 Heh. I think the one-sentence summary on racket-lang.org should be replaced with "Racket is a tool for keeping your CPU occupied building Scribble documentation." :-) 00:53:48 rudybot: eval (banner) 00:53:49 *offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to MzScheme v4.2.5 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2010 PLT Scheme Inc.\n" 00:53:58 chandler: ya rly 00:54:31 *gasp* 4.2.5? Wow, it's almost like a living fossil! 00:54:35 I know 00:54:52 he keeps asking for help browsing the internet 00:54:57 telling me the same stories, etc 00:55:01 huh? I only have 4.1.5 00:55:03 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-161-17.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:34 minion: memo for arcfide: Do you have an Android phone? http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/07/overbite-project-brings-gopher-protocol-to-android.ars 00:55:35 Remembered. I'll tell arcfide when he/she/it next speaks. 00:55:35 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/297gt9k 00:56:02 samth_away: (continuing our severely time-lagged debate) 00:56:35 Are you still debating the meaning of "much"? 00:57:21 not as much as before, no. 00:57:40 if you just count # of times the implementation is fastest, that still gives chicken: 1, gambit: 2, plt:3 in the low bracket, followed by mit: 4, larceny: 5, then bigloo: 9 and ikarus: 13 00:58:02 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-161-17.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:59:17 more meaningful numbers would be to look at the average ratio over all tests - for ikarus this is still going to be 1.x, whereas most other implementations are less consistent 00:59:35 either way you look at it, i stick by my choice of adverb 01:00:04 foof are those counts or rankin numbers? 01:01:38 csmrfx: those are # of times the impl was first in the benchmarks samth_away linked to 01:01:43 so higher numbers are better 01:01:59 ryght 01:13:16 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:28 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 01:17:37 luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has joined #scheme 01:20:24 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:22:00 It would be nice if racket kept working at its performance instead of applying a Steve Jobs-esque reality distortion filter telling people what fast means :P 01:22:39 They've got the resources, they should be able to close the gap. 01:24:17 bokr [~eduska@85.26.232.238] has joined #scheme 01:24:35 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 01:26:02 -!- nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:26:28 nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has joined #scheme 01:28:16 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 01:34:13 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:34:56 -!- minglis [~minglis@203.171.96.17.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:35:42 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:36:35 *jcowan* unvanishes and all. 01:36:46 *offby1* yawns 01:41:06 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 01:44:49 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-212.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:57:44 foof: (a) The "Steve Jobs" comment is downright insulting; (b) I believe your original adverb was "much, much faster", which I'd apply for example for Python vs C, certainly not for two things that are as close; (c) those alleged resources is basically one person with a full-time professor position to deal with; (d) the "Steve Jobs" allegation was horrible, you could just as well invoke Godwin's law. 01:59:30 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 02:01:54 eli: that's why I used a smiley, sheesh 02:03:20 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 02:04:02 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 02:04:58 Sorry, I don't think smileys help when mass murderers and information dictators are concerned... 02:05:30 And comcast, who are responsible for me being able to write each sentence over three minutes. 02:06:40 Didn't you hear? Like Blackwater, Comcast is shedding its old skin in favor of a brand new shiny name starting with 'X'. 02:12:49 That's just the product name, their support is still all "comcast". 02:12:59 s/support/"support"/ 02:13:33 I'm finally going to switch to a commercial line, in an attempt to put an end to these problems. 02:15:29 Commercial Comcast? That won't help. 02:15:59 I've been through that. It still has problems, and the support people still don't know what they're doing, but they charge you more and they're friendlier. 02:16:10 IIUC, they're supposed to fix your network problems within an hour. 02:16:27 And you're supposed to get people who know more what they're talking about. 02:16:55 Heh. That doesn't help when each occurrence of the issue doesn't last longer than an hour. 02:17:14 And re the price -- we have no other service so we're now at ~74$/month for the second level speed thing, 02:17:30 and the commercial thing is supposed to be about $60. 02:17:45 Well, that's not unreasonable. 02:25:00 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-76-124-164-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:33:43 -!- nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:05 nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has joined #scheme 02:34:46 is there a way to specify a cleanup/finalizer block in racket? 02:35:29 `dynamic-wind'? 02:36:44 one that works with co-routines? 02:37:20 within the context of: http://groups.google.com/group/scheme-reports-wg1/browse_thread/thread/5ba8f5bc6d640e15 02:37:21 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2edmgg9 02:37:47 sajith [~sajith@59.164.105.152] has joined #scheme 02:39:03 foof: You mean an implementation of that `exception-protect'? 02:39:39 That would probably fit racket's `with-handlers', but a generic `dynamic-wind'-based solution has been discussed in c.l.s in the past. 02:39:43 (Multiple times, IIRC.) 02:40:30 but the dynamic-wind solution doesn't allow for co-routines 02:40:58 foof: I'm not sure that performing the cleanup when leaving the context due to an exception is any saner than performing the cleanup when the context is exited for any reason. 02:41:12 In either case, one may wish to re-enter the context at a later point. 02:42:19 -!- winxordie [~winxordie@199-49.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:42:39 re-entering via co-routines and other control inversions is bread-and-butter for a lot of scheme code, it should be assumed 02:42:52 Why is `dynamic-wind' inappropriate for coroutines? 02:43:30 re-entering after an exception occurs is dangerous anyway 02:44:04 Why? 02:44:06 unless you know and are anticipating some class of exception, which you should then catch inside the `exception-protect' 02:44:42 I've been not paying attention to what WG(1,2) is doing. Are you assuming an eager unwind model of exceptions? 02:45:01 we're not assuming any model of exception yet 02:45:10 though i'm assuming no implicit restarts 02:45:45 (I'm still not clear on why `dynamic-wind' is not working for coroutines.) 02:46:15 eli: if you use `dynamic-wind' to free the resource as soon as the dynamic-context is left, the resource will no longer be available next time you enter it. with co-routines, you're pretty much guaranteed to leave and re-enter. 02:46:51 eli: Because coroutines implemented via `call/cc' instead of with partial continuations are broken. 02:47:11 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-215-36-144.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:11 which is why the papers by clinger and sitaram I point to require the programmer to differentiate between escaping and non-escaping continuations 02:47:44 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:50:49 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 02:50:55 I did say "and other control inversions." Just assume the programmer is an avid user of things like Sitaram's `amb'. 02:50:59 Well, (a) if you're talking about proper coroutines, then the resource cleanup would happen outside of the dynamic extent where the work happens, and (b) if you're talking about something like the problems in that paper, then (IIRC, but I might mis-remember) the paper describes a solution for it. 02:51:34 eli: Yes, I'm asking what, if any, the PLT solution is. 02:52:23 The solution is `with-handlers' (and a few related functionalities), but given the solution in that paper, this is mostly an issue of efficiency. 02:52:25 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176194216.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:33 timj [~timj@e176194216.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:52:35 (And other complications due to delimited continuations.) 02:53:23 IJP_ [~Ian@host86-186-180-103.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 02:53:48 -!- IJP [~Ian@host86-174-13-40.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:55:05 no, with-handlers is just an exception handling construct, I wanted something for running cleanup code 02:55:40 (with-handlers ([(lambda (_) #t) (lambda (_) (cleanup))]) (work) (cleanup)) 02:56:09 leppie [~lolcow@196-215-36-144.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 02:56:29 a) you're not re-raising the exception b) you're duplicating the cleanup code 02:56:49 which is why I'm recommending a utility for this 02:57:19 That's why I asked about the context, and "co-routines" is obviously not explicit enough. 02:57:23 and apparently racket has no such utility, nor does any scheme I'm aware of :/ 02:57:40 Minor edit: (with-handlers ([(lambda (_) #t) (lambda (e) (cleanup) (raise e))]) (work) (cleanup)) 02:58:25 the context is "scheme" and anything you might ever want to write with it 02:59:23 ah! 03:00:18 gauche's `unwind-protect' only cares about the exception system, not general transfer of control via call/cc. that's exactly what I'm looking for. 03:00:46 This is doing just that then. 03:01:03 It won't duplicate the cleanup, btw -- unless there's an exception in the cleanup. But that's easy to avoid in a number of obvious ways. 03:01:15 -!- sajith [~sajith@59.164.105.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02:19 I'm talking about code duplication. Are you seriously arguing that no utility is needed? 03:03:41 c) you're also not returning the result of (work) 03:04:10 kniu [~kniu@cpe-76-174-76-107.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:05:51 asarch [~asarch@189.188.142.66] has joined #scheme 03:09:57 -!- nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:10:15 nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has joined #scheme 03:11:31 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:59 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 03:22:48 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 03:24:33 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.142.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:28 foof: What duplication of code? `cleanup' is supposedly an argument to some utility that you're looking for. 03:25:44 And re returning the result of `work' -- yes, there's a missing `begin0' there. 03:32:51 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:36:02 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 03:37:43 asarch [~asarch@189.188.142.66] has joined #scheme 03:37:57 malcolmci [~malcolmci@203.171.96.17.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #scheme 03:38:03 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.30.106] has joined #scheme 03:38:27 -!- _rata_ [~rata@pc-159-139-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:40:31 (define (exception-protect body cleanup) (with-whatever-handler ...)) (exception-protect (lambda () ... (raise (make-warning "You lose!")) ...) cleanup) 03:41:20 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:41:24 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:14 If things absolutely must not be dirty outside a certain extent, then use DYNAMIC-WIND. (Example: A pass phrase buffer absolutely must not be filled except during a dynamic extent; scrub on exit, and reentry be damned.) 03:43:08 If that's not the case, use finalizers. As a hint about when the resource can be released, you can put a finalizer on a continuation, which a clever implementation will run as soon as the continuation is popped, if it has not been reified. 03:43:56 -!- kniu [~kniu@cpe-76-174-76-107.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46:11 Riastradh: Most implementations are not clever, and for a lot of things we need a guarantee of immediate cleanup. 03:46:30 It doesn't take a lot of cleverness: you just need reified frames to be marked. 03:46:54 Riastradh: how many existing implementations perform that optimization? 03:48:01 kniu [~kniu@cpe-76-174-76-107.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:48:10 Anyway, implementation be damned - everyone is telling you "you can do it this way" but I've already posted a solution. 03:48:41 I'm discussing the interface of a convenience utility to do this which can hide the implementation details. 03:48:57 No Scheme systems I am aware of have this optimization in general object finalization mechanisms. However, putting it there is silly. Any Scheme system in which CWCC is not a constant-time operation can easily mark frames as reified. 03:49:25 Hide the implementation details? I hope you aren't hiding anything about how it works. 03:50:09 It's supposed to work only with exceptions, like Gauche's unwind-protect. 03:50:19 And like the definition I sketched. 03:50:21 (raise (make-warning "You lose!")) 03:50:39 Right, I left out that important bit :) 03:51:12 (with-handler (lambda (c) (use-value 'a-better-one)) (lambda () ... (exception-protect ... (substitutable-value-error "You lose!") ...) ...)) 03:51:54 (with-handler enter-the-debugger ...) 03:52:54 I wouldn't know where to mark frames in chibi, BTW, I'd have to allocate an extra cell or bit somewhere on each frame to do so. 03:53:04 No, just on some special frames. 03:53:46 I suppose the 2009-03-28 entry in could have another appendix for examples in which using condition handlers for the purpose fails. 03:55:10 Oh, you lost me, I don't see where condition handlers fail. 03:55:24 Signalling a warning does not mean that the resource has to be released. 03:55:35 Signalling an error that is fixable does not mean that the resource has to be released. 03:56:05 A warning wouldn't go through the exception system. 03:56:07 Signalling an error and entering the debugger does not require that the resource have been released before the debugger be entered. 03:56:18 Releasing the resource breaks continuing after the warning, or fixing the error, or debugging the problem. 03:56:27 Restarts do need some consideration. 03:58:16 In the two examples I gave, using a condition handler makes no sense. Using DYNAMIC-WIND and finalizers, respectively, makes sense. If you have a different class of examples, I'd like to hear about it. 03:58:28 In the examples I gave in the blag entry, that is. 03:58:50 Uh, in every example I can think of, dynamic-wind fails. 03:59:02 Please be specific. 03:59:57 sorry, using dynamic-wind alone fails 04:00:32 I gave two classes of examples in the blag entry. While using DYNAMIC-WIND makes no sense for one of them, neither does using condition handlers. 04:01:16 I'd like to hear about classes of examples in which using condition handlers makes sense, but neither using DYNAMIC-WIND nor using finalizers makes sense. 04:01:44 I disagree with password example as well, since the user has no feedback that the password they are editing has suddenly been cleared. 04:02:01 What? 04:02:08 I don't understand. 04:02:52 If control leaves in the middle of (read-password (current-input-port)) you can't just clear the password field. 04:03:03 Why not? 04:03:12 Because the user is in the middle of typing it! 04:03:49 IJP [~Ian@host86-183-36-186.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 04:04:27 And if it's between typing the password and using it, resetting it is still unacceptable unless you want to ask for the password again. 04:04:30 The assumption is that control doesn't exit in that case, or that any control transfer out will be reflected in the UI. More generally, the assumption is that control is not about to reenter this extent. 04:04:47 ... and be prepared to do so potenitially an unlimited # of times before using it. 04:04:59 So why is control exiting and reentering the extent? 04:05:13 co-routines, amb, whatever 04:05:36 gambit's threads are implemented on top of call/cc 04:05:45 False. 04:06:04 -!- IJP_ [~Ian@host86-186-180-103.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:06:12 maybe, but it's besides the point 04:06:20 Switching threads does not run DYNAMIC-WIND entrance and exit procedures. 04:06:24 you can't use dynamic-wind 04:06:44 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.142.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:38 If you're using coroutines, then you're right: one can't use DYNAMIC-WIND. That doesn't make condition handlers any more appropriate, though. 04:08:12 The real condition under which it is safe to release the resource is when the extent can no longer be re-entered. 04:08:26 The only issue with condition handlers is restarts, which need more though and I don't think belong in WG1 anyway. 04:08:26 Releasing the resource before then is a bug. 04:08:48 That a condition was signalled does not imply that all the resources must be released. 04:09:31 Specifically - a condition was signalled "and not caught" within the extent of the protection procedure. 04:10:00 That a condition was signalled and has not yet been caught still does not imply that the resource must be released. 04:10:37 Again, only if you allow restarts. 04:10:40 The next enclosing handler might invoke the debugger in which I want to examine the state of the resource to find out what was going on. Releasing the resource would interfere. 04:10:43 False. 04:11:19 I don't have to invoke a restart in order for the debugger to be useful. I might want to abort back to the REPL, without using any restarts. Only then may the resource be released. 04:11:35 A debugger that can expect the full state can effectively provide restarts 04:11:45 No, it can't. 04:11:47 And debuggers are special anyway. 04:12:45 Restarts are part of the intent of a program. `Restarting' a particular continuation in a debugger is an operation that violates program semantics. 04:12:53 The problem is we absolutely need something, and specifying both finalizers and immediate GC requirements on continuations is not going to happen. 04:14:15 It's not safe to release resources in a condition handler without an operation that also discards all restarts up to the dynamic point of the condition handler -- that is, all restarts that were established between the handler and the signaller. 04:14:36 So we can provide this, and debuggers can either provide special overrides for not reclaiming resources, or deal with the fact that the resources will be gone when they get a chance to inspect. 04:14:48 It is, however, safe to release resources once the extent cannot be reentered. 04:15:08 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 04:15:38 And restarts be damned - if we have to choose between restarts and portable guaranteed cleanup blocks, I'll take cleanup. 04:16:21 You simply can't write reliable software without cleanup. 04:16:24 So I suggest that the *semantics* of UNWIND-PROTECT be to run the protection procedure when the implementation can prove that the extent cannot be reentered. As an optimization, implementations may mark DYNAMIC-WIND points or continuation frames in order to clean resourecs up as soon as possible. 04:16:33 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 04:16:35 foof, in that case, I suggest that you use the following definition: 04:17:11 (define (with-cleanup cleanup procedure) ((cwcc (lambda (k) (lambda () (with-handler (lambda (c) (k (lambda () (cleanup) (raise c)))) procedure] 04:17:25 Sorry, that's not quite right. 04:17:43 You also need to call CLEANUP in the non-exceptional case, of course. 04:18:20 Rather: (define (with-cleanup cleanup procedure) ((cwcc (lambda (k) (lambda () (dynamic-wind error (lambda () (with-handler (lambda (c) (k (lambda () (raise c)))) procedure)) cleanup] 04:18:21 Riastradh: that's essentially what I posted to the list 04:18:27 No, it's not. 04:19:38 Sorry, the second one doesn't do what you want for coroutines. 04:21:30 actually, what i want to do is add call/ec to make a distinction between one-shot continuations, and define exceptions in terms of those 04:21:58 *foof* wanders off to lunch 04:23:06 04:24:18 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.198.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:29:57 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:50 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 04:33:52 04:35:43 It is long past my bedtime now. 04:35:49 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:39:49 typemore [~typemore@unaffiliated/typemore] has joined #scheme 04:39:59 anyone know of a good tutorial for implementing prolog in scheme? 04:46:29 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:46:47 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.30.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:58 typemore: You can look for "schelog". 04:48:10 ...or a recent reincarnation of that: http://git.racket-lang.org/plt/tree/HEAD:/collects/racklog 04:55:45 nice; thanks 04:55:45 -!- MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:55:47 -!- typemore [~typemore@unaffiliated/typemore] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:08:30 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:11:14 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:48 -!- malcolmci [~malcolmci@203.171.96.17.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:14:00 Riastradh: that dynamic-wind once again breaks the semantics 05:14:54 ...ironically because of things like schelog :) 05:15:42 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.201] has joined #scheme 05:21:28 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:26:36 drwho [~drwho@c-76-124-164-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:31:05 malcolmci [~malcolmci@203.171.96.17.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #scheme 05:32:05 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: night] 05:48:08 -!- luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has quit [Ping 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has joined #scheme 07:47:21 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 07:47:57 dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-138-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 07:52:14 adu [~ajr@pool-96-255-9-193.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 08:04:34 -!- IJP [~Ian@host86-183-36-186.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:06:08 IJP [~Ian@host86-173-118-203.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 08:18:37 Blkt [~user@93-33-132-54.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 08:18:48 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:39 good day everyone 08:20:22 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 08:22:43 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 08:25:49 Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 08:29:13 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 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xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 09:27:50 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 09:28:45 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #scheme 09:32:01 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:33 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has left #scheme 09:37:47 mije [5641b192@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.65.177.146] has joined #scheme 09:37:53 hi 09:39:27 a/s/l? 09:39:36 oops, wrong window... 09:42:50 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-138-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:47:17 foof : --> [] 09:51:21 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52:46 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 10:01:21 -!- saccade [~saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:23 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 10:04:31 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 10:09:29 -!- nicktick 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quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 13:22:30 Hmmm. FIPS140. 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[~curi@237.muf176.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:13 Greetings, people. I was here some time ago and talked about xml importing and SSAX and stuff, but I dropped all my plans to import and process from xml (non-linear) and instead choose a file format which is linear. Any suggestions what is a good and standard way to parse a custom syntax and trigger scheme functions from there? 18:15:30 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-132-54.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:16:57 -!- bokr [~eduska@85.26.232.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:17:20 curi_ [~curi@237.muf176.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net] has joined #scheme 18:21:14 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:00 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 18:23:31 -!- mathk [~mathk@dispo-82-65-236-245.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:49 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-25-82-254-171-94.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:27:45 saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:29:28 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@66.37.58.254] has joined #scheme 18:35:39 Nils^: depending on your needs, matchable might be sufficient: http://chicken.wiki.br/eggref/4/matchable 18:35:53 masm [~masm@2.80.143.249] has joined #scheme 18:36:06 some other possibilities: http://chicken.wiki.br/eggref/4/lexgen, http://chicken.wiki.br/eggref/4/input-parse, http://chicken.wiki.br/eggref/4/lalr 18:37:03 also, i could have sworn that Riastradh wrote something; have to ask foof. 18:40:58 -!- curi_ [~curi@237.muf176.snfc.sffca01r18.dsl.att.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:42:47 klutometis: thanks, lets see. I think this will be usable even if I use guile, not chicken. 18:45:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:50:03 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.143.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:53:50 masm [~masm@bl19-143-249.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 18:56:32 -!- cpr420 [~cpr@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:40 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-248-79.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:00:36 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-128-130.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:02:47 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@89-178-199-26.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:06:56 cinch [~cinch@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #scheme 19:10:31 -!- hhomar [~hhomar@92.27.45.218] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 19:18:04 nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has joined #scheme 19:23:24 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:39 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] 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[~Mohamdu@CPE00222d53fe20-CM00222d53fe1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:47 -!- certainty [~closure@dslc-082-082-134-143.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:40:38 incubot: Hayabusa capsule particles may be from asteroid 20:40:42 Heaven Chronicles are set in an asteroid belt where years, days, etc. don't have much meaning. 20:43:24 -!- xwl [~user@125.34.174.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:50:45 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5BF75.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:50:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:51:28 Blkt [~user@93-33-137-76.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #scheme 20:53:40 -!- hotblack231 [~jh@p4FC5BB19.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:45 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:02:20 -!- nicktick [~na@unaffiliated/nicktick] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:24 -!- langmartin 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[~saccade@dhcp-18-111-84-184.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:58:00 -!- IJP [~Ian@host86-173-118-203.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:13 IJP [~Ian@host86-174-203-56.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 22:07:00 -!- alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:16 alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:11:00 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-25-82-254-171-94.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 22:11:36 MonononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:13:06 -!- MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:13:09 -!- MonononcQc is now known as MononcQc 22:21:19 alvatar [~alvatar@136.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 22:29:17 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@66.37.58.254] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:30:33 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5adb10a1.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:33 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:05 schmir [~schmir@p54A9041C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:37:08 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@136.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:39:43 hotblack231 [~jh@p4FC5BC48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:40:33 What keyboards #schemers like best? 22:40:41 I mean *you 22:42:25 I use a Microsoft Bluetooth Mobility Keyboard 6000 at the office and an el-cheapo Logitech piece of junk at home, since apparently my Model M bothers the cat. 22:42:48 I don't pretend that either of these are ideal, but they work satisfactorily for me. 22:43:13 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5BF94.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:43:56 la la la 22:44:04 Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.84.70] has joined #scheme 22:44:51 -!- hotblack231 [~jh@p4FC5BC48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:47:17 I have had enough of this crappy logitech ultra flat whatever 22:47:56 DUM de dum 22:52:33 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A9041C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:35 *cky* has a Microsoft Natural 4000. 22:52:42 <3 <3 <3 23:04:01 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-143-249.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:15 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-85.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:06 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:14 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-183-17.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:08:12 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-60-119.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:36:57 -!- cinch [~cinch@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:07 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 23:44:05 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 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