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My friend is taking a lower level CS course and needs to parse a comma delimited line. She can't figure out how to get read of the comma when she reads the input, and I don't know the language, is there an option on read that's not on the docs? 00:27:39 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 00:28:04 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-73-34.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:11 r5rs read 00:29:11 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_612 00:29:12 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:29:12 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/58gpe2 00:29:29 eli: http://cairnarvon.rotahall.org/2010/05/25/towards-a-better-bbcode/ 00:29:41 thanks guys 00:29:44 the composition syntax there is nice 00:30:51 incubot: read my li(p)sp 00:30:52 Error: unbound variable: my 00:31:12 -!- Naex [~chatzilla@75-119-230-51.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 00:31:28 incubot: (lol) 00:31:28 Error: unbound variable: lol 00:37:22 incubot: (* 6 7) 00:37:23 42 00:37:58 incubot: What do you get when you multiply six by nine? 00:38:01 In that case, I hope it rocks nine ways to Sunday! 00:39:00 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:50 incubot: ((lambda (t1) (* t1 3 7)) 2) 00:39:50 42 00:41:44 Daemmerung: what's your preferred latin dictionary? are you an oxford man, or a lewis-and-short type? 00:44:26 klutometis: A tattered Cassell's that has served me since I was in short pants. 00:45:02 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:45:44 Back when paperback publishers weren't afraid to emboss embarrassingly low prices on the spines of their works. 00:47:33 Daemmerung: cassell's is a classic, too; do you have the red-yellow edition? 00:51:18 The only yellow is the color of the paper. I wasn't joking about the short pants: this was my grade-school dictionary. Oxford would have been overkill for our Caesar-chomping. 00:52:12 Wish I'd taken it further, but about then puberty kicked in and GOOD-BYE it all went. 00:52:21 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 00:52:26 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.125] has joined #scheme 00:52:34 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:02:26 foof: Thanks -- I replied. 01:02:39 incubot: (list->string (map integer->char (filter (lambda (i) (even? (count (lambda (char) (eq? char #\1)) (string->list (number->string i 2))))) (append (iota 5 107) (iota 4 110 -1))))) 01:02:39 lol 01:02:45 heh 01:03:48 Daemmerung: bizarre the way puberty is antagonistic to discipline. 01:05:52 eli: agreed, his proposed syntax loses badly when it comes to escaping 01:07:47 Yeah, I was going to describe how painful it would actually be -- pointing at the supposed section where he'd write something like: if you want to have an actual \\\{ in your text, all you have to do is backslash-escape the backslash itself: \\\\\\\{ 01:08:12 But I somehow doubt that many people can make sense of such gems. 01:09:30 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@90.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:13:26 -!- turbofail [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:28 k0rn [~k0rn@38-247.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:17:53 *foof* just had a surreal experience 01:21:17 I have a complex parser written in C++. To check out some statistics on the same data, I wrote a naive 10-line Perl-based parser. The Perl parser generated warnings from the builtin Perl sort() function I used, helpfully including the line number of the input, and revealing a case I wasn't handling properly but in fact silently ignoring in C++. 01:26:28 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!] 01:30:55 rudybot: t8 de en Prinzip des zu vermeidenden performativen Selbstwiderspruchs 01:30:56 sladegen: Performative self-contradiction of the principle to be avoided 01:30:59 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31:19 run away, run away! 01:32:06 rudybot: t8 en en Blah blah blah 01:32:06 eli: Blah blah blah 01:33:05 incubot: (display "rudybot: t8 en en incubot: (display \"foo\")") 01:33:05 rudybot: t8 en en incubot: (display "foo")# 01:33:20 *eli* shakes fist at offby1 again 01:42:13 minion: incubot? 01:42:13 incubot: (begin "minion: chant") 01:42:14 minion: chant 01:42:14 MORE CL 01:42:19 OH NO 01:42:37 That wasn't what I intended. 01:48:03 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:18 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:50:25 Checkie [7784@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 01:50:30 shofetim [~user@97-121-217-56.blng.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:51:01 -!- FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-27.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:51:33 Heh. heh. heh. 01:58:25 kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #scheme 02:01:40 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 02:05:48 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:56 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:07:01 -!- peddie [~peddie@adsl-99-191-72-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:09:46 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:43 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:13:50 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:36 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:21:57 peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:25:35 -!- shofetim [~user@97-121-217-56.blng.qwest.net] has left #scheme 02:25:56 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:27:26 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:08 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 02:34:47 -!- peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 02:38:51 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-176-198.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:39:37 X-Scale [email@89.180.219.203] has joined #scheme 02:44:11 Leimy annotated #100533 "giterdone" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/100533#5 02:49:19 omgjrm? 02:52:36 timj__ [~timj@e176195238.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:29 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:09 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 02:54:13 Perils of cross-channel paste sharing. 02:56:34 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176196255.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:57:28 http://a.leptoquark.net/~elly/sic0.tar 02:57:36 this is an IRC client which has much of the unix nature 03:01:12 bossy-boss [~root@117.136.9.36] has joined #scheme 03:01:15 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:01:38 -!- bossy-boss [~root@117.136.9.36] has left #scheme 03:02:48 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:03:55 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:09 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 03:06:16 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:13:43 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!] 03:14:00 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 03:14:34 peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:16:55 wow, mysql client uses latin-1 by default, regardless of locale settings - how braindead can you get? 03:17:15 you could make an argument for preferring utf8 to the locale, but latin-1?! 03:29:07 asarch [~asarch@187.132.137.173] has joined #scheme 03:32:55 isn't latin-1 even with high bits on the same as utf8? could have used ASCIIFTW encoding then if not... 03:33:22 incubot: don't speak! 03:33:25 I'm looking it up as we speak. 03:33:53 sladegen: i have no idea what crack mysql is smoking but it just ouputs ????? for everything 03:34:04 *foof* misses postgres 03:35:38 and i have no idea why mysql gets so much love when postgres is so much better :/ 03:35:44 *sladegen* blames it on mysql not being popular in asia, then. 03:36:21 because of the myth of speed among the php junkies... 03:37:52 *elly* has only ever used sqlite 03:38:06 and for simple uses they could probably just as well use awk and flat files... anyway. 03:40:18 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:43:24 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 03:46:06 sqlite is fine. it doesn't have many features, but it also doesn't munge your data or deliberately break standard SQL. 03:50:42 -!- IJP [~Ian@86.135.220.180] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:53:36 hey! 03:53:40 I haven't done this in a while 03:53:41 minion: chant 03:53:41 MORE CL 03:53:44 excellent. 03:55:33 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 03:58:19 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-7-135.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:01:00 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-12-251.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:02:13 hohoho [~hohoho@p67fbbb.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:12:10 sqlite breaks obscurely 04:12:23 it does? 04:12:57 for us, yes 04:13:07 we use it for our unit tests, to stand in place of MySQL. 04:13:22 We'd like to use the "in-memory" variant, since that's faster than the on-disk variant; but for some reason we can't 04:13:26 and so our tests are slow 04:13:58 owned :( 04:14:22 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 04:21:31 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:27:51 Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:29:31 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:30:01 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:31:02 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:31:22 gnomon [~gnomon@99.232.20.26] has joined #scheme 04:33:20 -!- Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:53 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-205-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:27 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:26 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 04:53:39 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:30 sorry; wanted to apologize for this in advance: http://jonex.info/dump/yolisp.jpg 05:09:56 i'm both disgusted and compelled to look 05:11:29 rofl 05:11:50 fabe [~fabe@p54A7FDF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 05:14:19 -!- Checkie [7784@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 05:19:31 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7FDF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:23:37 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.137.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:27 Hum. ((atom e) (assoc e a)) -> shouldn't it rather be ((atom e) (cdr (assoc e a))) ? 05:27:53 I never met a lisp that returned the binding instead of the value 05:28:57 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:33:14 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:01 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 05:40:10 Checkie [882@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 05:40:42 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@75-119-244-229.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:43:05 Axioplase_: heh, good point; i guess they didn't have an alist-ref 05:44:53 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@69-196-140-137.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 05:49:48 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-74.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:54:13 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:58:51 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-186-100-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:59:07 -!- mastertogo [~togo@ip70-171-249-111.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:07:09 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:15:19 mastertogo [~togo@ip70-171-249-111.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 06:23:32 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 06:28:16 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 06:29:33 toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:36:00 -!- k0rn [~k0rn@38-247.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:39:08 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 06:41:00 -!- ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@69-196-140-137.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:47:51 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 06:50:36 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-146-237-tvwt-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:50:56 -!- WormDrink [~WormDrink@196-210-40-30.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:51:44 WormDrink [~WormDrink@196-210-40-30.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:53:33 -!- Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:54:03 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@76-10-139-177.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 06:54:04 Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 07:02:21 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.219.203] has left #scheme 07:05:40 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:05:47 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 07:06:27 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:13:17 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:14 HG` [~HG@85.8.73.39] has joined #scheme 07:21:53 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:23:40 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.73.39] has quit [Client Quit] 07:24:51 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:25:59 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 07:27:57 Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:28:57 masm [~masm@bl19-147-33.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 07:34:27 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 07:36:12 Bonjour [~4e29e354@gateway/web/freenode/x-rfegodgnauldhtaf] has joined #scheme 07:47:38 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 07:49:47 anyone else irritated by the fact that `)' no longer does a newline by default in paredit? 07:50:09 sure, it's trivial to change; but i got used to it after initial cognitive dissonance. 07:50:44 that same cognitive dissonance might do some other new users good, too. 07:51:39 maybe! 07:51:42 easily fixed, I think 07:51:51 *elly* doesn't like newline after ')', though 07:53:17 klutometis: you need more than one line for your programs? o_O 07:55:11 elly: i'm not sure i liked it other, but i felt that it was good for me, for some reason. sort of like fish oil or lima beans. 07:55:23 foof: not if i can help it! 07:55:48 on the other hand, fish oil and lima beans are now considered obsolete, klutometis 07:56:07 oh, interesting! i had no idea mother nature deprecated them. 07:56:15 they're all the rage among the paleo-fetishists. 07:57:17 HG` [~HG@85.8.73.39] has joined #scheme 07:57:31 Paleo-fetishists? Is that like fish boners? 07:58:05 Ew, Jafet. 07:59:18 Jafet: heh; do you mean soul food? no, there's a cult of pseudo-dieticians nowadays that lament the arrival of bread. 07:59:47 *elly* loves bread. 08:00:10 Sliced fish works for me, but toasting them is such a hassle 08:00:32 elly: i followed their advice and went strictly fruit, nuts, and meat for six weeks. it was horrible. 08:00:37 Ew! 08:00:42 Jafet: herrings? 08:00:49 *elly* eats bread, fruit, vegetables, and dairy. 08:00:55 it works out pretty well :) 08:01:06 You can use anchovies and keep on using bread. 08:01:07 wow, what neolithic hubris ;) 08:01:43 I thought that not eating meat would be harder than it has turned out to be 08:02:03 next tuesday marks four months of vegetarianism 08:02:25 was there an adjustment period when you had to deny yourself what you craved? 08:02:30 or was it transitionless? 08:03:00 it's mostly been pretty easy. 08:03:17 my parents forgot when I came home the first time, and we had dinner at a steakhouse 08:03:31 ouch; potatoes and asparagus? 08:03:31 so I ended up eating a sickening amount of fries and nothing else :) 08:04:01 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:04:19 Why do you follow that diet? 08:04:37 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 08:05:41 klutometis, I think you can survive on nothing but potatoes and asparagus 08:06:08 Jafet: you may be right; i remember when my advisor went vegetarion, though. he became intolerably cranky. 08:07:08 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 08:08:48 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 08:11:32 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-74.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:13:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 08:13:53 Jafet: I doubt it, unless asparagus contains a complete protein (which is unlikely). 08:14:36 You can live off soybeans and rice though, if you don't go insane in the process. 08:15:26 What does rice provide? 08:15:37 (Don't soybeans have carbohydrate?) 08:17:33 They have complementary types of proteins. It's not as simple as just getting carbs and protein: you also need to get the right types for amino acid synthesis. 08:23:04 Sure. 08:33:23 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:33:28 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 08:41:19 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:03 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e02b45e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 08:46:19 fabe [~fabe@p54A7F556.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:49:51 you can go around in so many circles with regards to diet it's crazy. 08:51:04 Adamant: isn't it bizarre that people are so susceptible to fads in this domain? 08:51:21 or is that just a symptom of living in a decadent, soon-to-be-extinct society? 08:51:44 klutometis: people are susceptible to fads in any domain. 08:51:56 or at least, most of the domains I've seen 08:52:47 also, the world/society/humanity/etc. has been ending for about forever. 08:53:04 true enough; so maybe susceptibility to fads is a priveleged domain of insusceptibility, so to speak. 08:53:28 yeah, but aren't we in a particular romanesque state of decay? 08:53:31 endless wars? 08:53:34 I can't remember if insusceptibility is like inflamable 08:53:42 i'm only sorry that there aren't more orgies. 08:54:33 klutometis: I would say two things are true 08:55:27 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7F556.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:55:40 one is that society has been decaying according to a lot of folks since I was born, and according to folks that got started in the Roaring Twenties, people were claiming it was decaying then. 08:56:09 the second is that it doesn't mean things are actually decaying. 08:56:13 *aren't 08:56:34 gah. I need to sleep. yet another sign of the apocalypse. 08:56:42 :P 08:56:46 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:53 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 08:56:53 yes, yes; the relative decay argument. you have to admit, though: societies have objectively measurable ebbs and flows. ancient athens is no more (experienced a bona fide decay), as did ancient rome, etc. 08:57:22 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-254-201.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:37 alaricsp [~alaric@router1.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 08:58:59 it's worse than relative decay. I think it's pretty likely people were talking about how things were going to hell at the start of both civilizations. 08:59:51 also, historical analogies are usually strained and are mostly constrained by the historical knowledge of the conjecturor (and this includes my own) 08:59:52 (Which hell?) 09:00:00 Jafet: good point! 09:00:58 oh, i see. much like the sixth great extinction: http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/nature/end-of-alaotra-grebe-is-further-evidence-of-sixth-great-extinction-1982947.html 09:01:00 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/247z4x5 09:01:09 we're all tardy to the party, so to speak. 09:04:19 I don't think we should ignore stuff, but we should keep it in perspective. 09:06:21 exactly; extinction-level events make the latest diet degeneracy look insignificant. 09:06:44 klutometis: I think we should keep "extinction-level events" in perspective. 09:07:05 meaning, what's a few birds between friends? ;) 09:07:57 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-238-235.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:08:14 klutometis: I was serious about the world ending bit - according to both various religions and scientists of various stripes, the world should have ended a long time ago. 09:08:57 all were accused of being false prophets, of course 09:09:16 such that we're living on borrowed time; or that's it's an ancient, ignorable meme? 09:09:31 "in the long run we are all dead". 09:09:55 that would be true even if the Singularity happened tomorrow, which I rather suspect it will not. 09:11:30 anyway, on the subject of diets 09:11:43 that's unarguable; what about infecting alien races with memes through radio transmissions/satellites: is that an indirect form of immortality? 09:12:26 diets are more down to earth 09:12:55 klutometis: I was assuming Singularized humans would either last until the end of this universe or run out of multiverses to use. 09:13:25 assuming it will end 09:13:35 diets are, aren't they 09:13:47 here's my imperfect diet that seems to be working 09:14:13 calories in < calories out 09:15:04 the real problem is calories-out-fluctuation 09:15:21 i broke my hand last week, for instance, such that i've gone from 6 to 0 days of activity per week 09:15:27 sure. 09:15:32 that is a problem. 09:15:40 there's this horrible transition period of calorie adjustment 09:15:44 can you use a machine? 09:15:50 cardio-type machine 09:15:52 safely 09:15:56 just started trail-running yesterday 09:16:00 good idea 09:16:03 felt good; though the damn cast gets sweaty 09:16:21 have to counter-balance the cast-weight with something in my right hand, too, to avoid asymmetry 09:16:22 yeah, unless they've come up with better stuff it's going to get funky. 09:16:39 what about the properties of the calories you consume? 09:16:46 are sugar colaries equal to meat calories? 09:17:08 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:17:16 I've kind of given up on the macronutrient ratio deal. 09:17:55 surely 8 cups of broccoli is better than a tablespoon, say, of sugar (or whatever the ratio is); or not? 09:18:22 I suspect it's based to a large degree on the individual in question. 09:18:51 how large; don't we have about 99.9% of DNA in common? how much variance is there, really? 09:19:18 klutometis: not necessarily a good measure. 09:19:59 klutometis: even if you get beyond poor newspaper science reporting to actual studies 09:20:07 true; it's hyperbole. but who thrives on sugar over brocolli, i wonder? 09:21:17 klutometis: as a probable mostly-European, you thrive to some degree on milk when folks from another culture might not. 09:21:29 cow milk, this is. 09:21:51 also, it's usually not as drastic as that. 09:22:03 hmm, that's a good point; and seem to have a higher tolerance for sugar and alcohol than my southern counterparts. 09:22:23 maybe. or it could just be a family thing. 09:22:36 or bad self-report :P 09:22:48 (I keed, I keed) 09:22:49 heh, good point 09:24:00 so this is my crazy theory regarding exercise 09:24:22 doing "real exercise" a set amount of times a week is good 09:24:38 what's also good is to integrate exercise into your daily life. 09:25:32 it's true; but motivation is tricky. when i was a vein teenager, exercise as such was a sufficient motivator. now i need a hunter-gathere clique of co-sufferers. 09:25:42 ah. 09:25:43 s/vein/vain/ 09:25:50 I mean more along the lines of walking more 09:25:57 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 09:26:10 stuff like gardening if you do it 09:26:35 how do you feel about the treadmill desks that keep cropping up? 09:27:14 I'm going to try a bike pedal + resistance unit under my desk at some point, actually. 09:27:31 well, a bike pedal with resistance 09:27:37 oh, nice; let me know if it works out. 09:27:37 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:27:52 these things are a little pricey: http://store.steelcase.com/go/products/detail/A7T/?cvsfhu=413754&utm_source=affiliate&utm_medium=bannerad&utm_campaign=logo 09:27:54 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ygjmxsn 09:27:59 I will. there are definitely noise concerns and probably other problems. 09:28:22 ah, good point. a nice, cheap engineering solution would be cool. 09:28:42 mixing them and chairs with wheels will probably be interesting. 09:29:03 heh 09:29:12 but if you could do a bit of biking for 5-10 minutes out of an hour for your 8 hours 09:29:32 i bet that would add up 09:29:52 may not linearly add up to the equivalent of 40-80 minutes, but it would be something. 09:30:28 there's not a lot of rhyme or reason with the price of fitness gear. 09:30:57 yuppies with spare cash are probably the rhyme and the reason 09:31:24 doesn't seem like something you couldn't do yourself with cheap components 09:31:29 probably. sometimes the high-end gear at least delivers on the promises. 09:31:43 other times it's total drek for most people. 09:32:27 i have an expensive treadmill, for instance, that's gets no use. 09:32:35 couldn't stand the damn thing after a couple weeks. 09:32:46 that's why i'm expensive-gadget-skeptical. 09:33:02 yes. buying fitness equipment or gym subscriptions to make you exercise, doesn't usually do the job. 09:33:06 it does for some people. 09:33:50 so much stuff plays into it as well, I think. 09:34:20 probably why i love crossfit/rugby; there's an irresistable social component. 09:34:25 stresses of various sort tend to give you shitty eating habits, the level of knowledge about exercise and diet, etc 09:34:28 yup 09:34:36 all those anti-social cats at the gym give me the creeps. 09:34:59 gyms can be very different. 09:35:08 apparently the cortisol levels of programmers is high, too, which doesn't help. 09:35:10 true 09:36:19 klutometis: with regards to professions, who knows. 09:37:37 fabe [~fabe@p54A7C53D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:38:19 programmers' stress level is probably somewhere between, say, philosophers and wall-stree bankers; don't you think? 09:38:21 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-97-1.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:38:53 dentists were supposed to be unhappy because they were committing suicide at twice the normal rate, except suicide is a fairly rare event and so are dentists. 09:40:11 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 09:40:13 stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 09:40:14 heh; the fallacy of insufficient N 09:41:01 yeah, also, there's the 'committing suicide' bit being a simple marker for unhappiness. 09:42:16 well, according to these bozos, at least, programmers don't make the most-stressful top 10: http://www.careercast.com/jobs/content/ten-most-stressful-jobs-2010-jobs-rated-0 09:42:21 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/26grvth 09:42:34 there's the distinction between "attempting" and "committing", which is really, really complicated. for starters, some groups tend to succeed more for various reasons. 09:43:04 like picking a more lethal method for the first try. 09:43:29 also there are a fair amount of folks that are pretty miserable but won't attempt or commit suicide. 09:43:50 hmm; yeah, it's an interesting metric 09:43:51 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:44:01 how would you go about quantifying unhapiness, then? 09:44:23 seratonin? testosterone? 09:44:38 klutometis: I think the usual standard is self-report. 09:45:32 also, there's the question as to whether quantification would give you useful information. 09:46:03 you're probably right; i don't think a poorer standard was ever invented, to be honest. i had to deal with some epidemiological data in grad-school, and it's amazing what self-deception can do. 09:46:23 and then there's the so-called dunning-kruger effect. 09:46:34 now inject fraud :P 09:46:37 Dopamine! 09:46:40 right 09:46:59 Jafet: there you go; that's the neurotransmitter i was looking for! 09:47:22 right, but it's quite likely dopamine isn't the whole picture. 09:47:30 That measures particular aspects of happiness 09:47:45 (Anyone still up for fish boners?) 09:48:10 also, I dunno how they would measure the dopamine in a human. 09:48:36 you can check blood levels of metabolites and such. 09:48:52 Jafet: heh; i still don't know what those are 09:49:19 but measuring the actual levels in the brain took cracking open the skull last I heard. they may have developed something better in the interim. 09:49:31 is that what catecholamines are? 09:49:44 No single chemical or hormone quantifies pleasure, I think 09:49:55 Most of them have broad functions 09:49:58 probably. 09:50:08 So measuring any one is pointless to this already pointless endeavour 09:50:20 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 09:51:38 then the best we can hope for is philosophical or psychological metrics 09:52:47 Heh, philosophical metrics 09:52:56 exactly ;) 09:58:09 anecdotal evidence, apropos of nothing - the same website lists actuary as a top job by their criteria. Edward Norton is a bit of a thinly-disguised one, or a very related field, in "Fight Club" 09:58:32 maybe a mixture of seretonin, enkephalin and dopamin ... 09:58:44 lol 10:05:02 have you guys heard about this, actually? - Cached - Similar 10:05:02 Illusory superiority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 10:05:02 In Kruger and Dunning's experiments participants were given specific tasks (such as logic problems, grammar and determining whether or not jokes were funny) ... 10:05:04 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority - Cached - Similar 10:05:15 whoops, sorry; wrong paste. 10:05:31 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DunningKruger_effect 10:05:46 i think of it every time i hear about self-reporting 10:05:58 (sorry, can't paste the link with an en-dash) 10:06:03 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:06:18 http://bit.ly/cMhwUo 10:07:40 -!- Mandar [~armand@pha75-21-78-228-186-233.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-238-235.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:12 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-34-238-235.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:16:46 my self-esteem was never high nor low 10:17:02 somewhere in-between 10:17:27 I have no idea how they ranked percentiles, but using undergraduates at a fairly elite college as a stand-in for the general population is fraught with difficulties for the grammar and logic bits, or at least should be. 10:18:24 yeh, ask one who never heard of it! 10:18:28 lol 10:28:43 Adamant: a survey was conducted to ask women whether they would consider sleeping with Tiger Woods. 90% replied "never again". 10:29:15 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:29 Jafet: thank you, you have made my insomnia-clouded night 10:29:48 that was pretty funny. 10:31:12 lol 10:32:38 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 10:33:17 -!- Bonjour [~4e29e354@gateway/web/freenode/x-rfegodgnauldhtaf] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:34:17 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@router1.hotdesktop.biz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:30 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:51:20 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:53:23 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:51 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 11:05:07 if you either work out a whole lot, and I mean a lot, or you want to have a cheat meal about every month and have it come in liquid form, you could try this. 11:05:11 http://www.coldstonecreamery.com/assets/pdf/nutrition/Nutrition_Info_Shakes_05_09_08.pdf 11:05:13 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/3x7c53q 11:32:28 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:32:32 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:38:17 Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 11:41:15 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02:40 about the orgies: http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/827061-naked-woman-in-yoga-protest-at-parliament 12:02:42 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2wvllwt 12:03:35 kind complementary with exercise... diet and happiness. 12:04:49 luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has joined #scheme 12:12:17 alaricsp [~alaric@router1.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 12:17:22 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p67fbbb.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:25 alvatar [~alvatar@59.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 12:38:00 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:41 ventonegro [~alex@187.51.143.218] 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[~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:33 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 16:08:18 I'm looking through the scrollback and seeing precious little that actually relates to Scheme. 16:08:48 saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-THIRTY-SEVEN.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 16:09:53 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:11:56 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:15:39 -!- xwl [~user@114.250.51.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:16:20 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.73.39] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:21:36 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:21:37 I could kvetch about not writing any Scheme. Would that count? 16:23:00 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:45 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:24:26 -!- toast-opt [~toast-opt@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast-opt] 16:24:52 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:28:43 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:26 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:30:37 alvatar [~alvatar@23.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:31:33 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:31:34 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@p5B26AC0D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:41 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35:03 snorble 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has joined #scheme 23:02:15 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:07:10 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-67-112-204-194.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:08:03 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-67-112-204-194.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:13:59 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:53 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-125.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:21:46 incubot: it's ominous the way the facebook-borg have, overnight, infected logins for other sites. 23:21:50 yeah, the wiki is going to *need* logins, or at least some thinkcash system. 23:22:38 tltstc` [~nine@DHCP-225-183.caltech.edu] has joined #scheme 23:24:44 -!- tltstc` [~nine@DHCP-225-183.caltech.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:09 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-162-134.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:35 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-165-221.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:29:47 soupdragon [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 23:39:17 it's really annoying how edwin windows change size :/ 23:39:36 like if you split horizontally them resize and resize back, the top one is smaller 23:39:47 and it just gets smaller until it disappears.. then the program crashes 23:44:53 -!- masm [~masm@bl19-147-33.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:45:18 Do you know any small sisc example of java code loading and evaluating a scheme file which invokes java code? 23:49:09 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@81.2.70.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:52:58 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:22 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 23:55:15 YOu mean, like what sisc.repl does? 23:55:48 in terms of creating an Interpreter etc 23:57:21 Daemmerung: hmmm. I don't know how the sisc repl works. 23:58:31 I'm trying to recall an example more direct than "copy the implementation of the implementation's REPL." Give me a bit. 23:58:45 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: i want to be formal but i'm here to party] 23:59:05 My scenario is: I have a java program and some libraries and I want to extend it in scheme. The scheme code should be able to call java code from the libraries. 23:59:56 REPL.java is the source file in question.