00:03:39 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-85-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:11 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-85-28.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:06:17 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-85-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:51 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-85-28.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:14:30 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:15:20 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-182-221.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:54 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@40.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:23:54 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e02b45e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 00:26:06 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:39:59 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:41:52 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 00:42:04 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 00:46:39 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #scheme 00:52:02 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 00:57:23 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:58:39 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:14:41 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:35 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 01:24:32 saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:32:01 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:35:44 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 01:41:29 ros3 [~roselynro@99.13.242.166] has joined #scheme 01:44:10 sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-200-175.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:45:01 rgz [~rgz@unaffiliated/rgz] has joined #scheme 01:45:45 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-127-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 01:45:55 Is there a lot of math in SICP that I should be aware about? 01:46:00 I'm very poor with math. 01:46:06 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-85-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:46:28 don't be complacent 01:46:31 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 01:47:24 copumpkin, Would I be here, if I am being complacent? 01:47:36 guess not :) 01:47:56 I don't remember much about SICP, sadly 01:48:34 They say it's the book that would turn a noob into a satisfactory programmer, with the right mental models to approach problems in programming. 01:48:41 But, I don't know 01:51:20 %G%@ 01:52:04 sepult, thanks 01:56:53 Angie [~angieb@unaffiliated/angie] has joined #scheme 01:56:57 -!- rgz [~rgz@unaffiliated/rgz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03:42 we talk about the book in #sicp 02:03:51 Kind of an informal reading group 02:04:26 oh.. he left 02:04:33 I was about to nerdgasm about sicp 02:05:34 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:09:27 -!- mastertogo [~togo@ip70-171-249-111.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:44 stiv [~steve@blender/coder/stivs] has joined #scheme 02:10:00 mastertogo [~togo@ip70-171-249-111.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 02:12:37 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-62.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:12:51 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:39 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 02:17:04 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 02:17:07 hi. I'm rooting about on the interwebs looking for an embeddable lisp-like language (scheme?) for use as an extension language in C/C++ programs. Something similar to how python can be used as an embedded scripting language. any advice, hints, suggestions and/or mockery is appreciated 02:19:08 guile was originally intended for exactly that. 02:19:14 I don't know how well it does, though 02:20:25 browsing around, I kind of got the impression that guile had fallen by the wayside and wasn't used much anymore 02:21:06 but it seems to be a candidate along with Elk 02:30:26 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:30:41 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 02:34:24 there's this guy "wingo", who shows up here occasionally, who seems to be single-handedly reviving it. 02:37:26 offby1, interesting. thanks 02:38:52 stiv: It's a bit different in its method, but chicken is also suitable for embedding (with C/C++, specifically). 02:40:47 Obfuscate, thanks. that is one I have not looked at yet 02:42:33 stiv: Note that there's also a #chicken channel. 02:43:36 useful info! I get the impression there are many scheme implementations that were sort of university experiments 02:44:05 as opposed to ending up in something practical like the gimp 02:44:08 *offby1* stifles a giggle 02:51:24 stiv, you may want to investigate Lush. 02:51:49 It's not Scheme, but it's got other advantages to compensate for that. 02:52:13 Lisp Universal Shell? 02:52:33 timj__ [~timj@e176194123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:35 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176195161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:54:13 Is there a big ol' frog on the page? 02:54:34 gnomon, yeah 02:55:02 Your mother's brother is named Robert. 02:58:01 Unless I'm mistaken, guile-1.8 comes with almost no documentation. 02:58:07 (An incomplete tutorial, and nothing else) 02:58:28 gnomon: I always wondered where that expression came from. 02:58:47 gnomon, I had looked at that awhile back and got the impression it was a university project that was no longer maintained. source forge page shows recent svn commits, tho. 02:59:41 offby1, I've often wondered that too! 03:00:13 stiv, I got that impression from the page as well, but I believe that's because the page is stale while the code (and accompanying documentation) appears to be receiving all the love and attention. 03:00:40 gnomon, that's really the bottom line 03:00:42 Anyhow, I have no personal experience with Lush, but I've rather surprisingly good things about it from several people. 03:00:54 stiv: if you are after something small you can try chibi-scheme. 03:01:02 Or Lua! 03:01:11 factor! 03:01:13 Uh, I mean. Not Lua. Because it's not Scheme either. 03:01:39 io! 03:01:46 Squirrel! 03:01:49 incubot: CHANT 03:01:54 Its been said that chant is minion: CHANT 03:01:56 MORE ASBESTOS 03:02:00 after python, lua seems...limited. plus I have this burning desire to do something lispy 03:02:15 Wait, what? You find Lua *more* limited than Python? 03:02:19 CL! 03:02:19 stiv: language-wise, python is more restricted than Python 03:02:25 err 03:02:27 sladegen, ECL! 03:02:31 than Lua 03:02:40 that's not a 'more human than human' type statement 03:02:45 Churches! 03:02:47 Newlispewww! 03:02:52 Lead! Lead! 03:02:57 *gnomon* hits sladegen with a rolled-up newspaper 03:02:59 A DUCK! 03:03:01 Newlisp indeed. 03:03:03 Burn her! 03:03:07 *sladegen* quacks. 03:03:14 admittedly not a lua programmer, but the language seems to have one datatype - a table 03:03:18 Quack, damn you! 03:03:34 stiv, sure, in the same way that C has one data type: the memory cell. 03:03:43 *sladegen* swims for the horizon. 03:03:45 ... and scheme only has pairs. 03:04:07 gnomon, heh. 03:04:10 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:32 #f should be enough for everybody. 03:05:15 Yes, and all of this binary computing is nonsense: isn't base 1 sufficient? 03:06:01 0 bases covered! 03:06:11 stiv, I don't want to get into a huge argument about Lua in this channel, but Lua gives you lambdas, closures, tables which intelligently behave like either associative or numeric arrays depending on use, varargs, resumable coroutines (which offer some of the same features as limited continuations)... the major drawbacks are the lack of proper macros and the continuations problem. 03:06:11 maybe in the olden days. but now it's ones and zeros everywhere 03:07:10 Furthermore, one advantage which Lua has over Scheme is that it strongly encourages a programming model which emphasizes long-lived data structures, which minimizes allocation and garbage collection on very memory-limited machines like video game consoles. 03:08:44 gnomon, interesting. sounds like I need to take a 2nd look at it. 03:09:03 *sladegen* gets dizzy watching the tentacles fling. 03:09:19 *gnomon* is offered cupcakes by someone offscreen and wanders off 03:09:32 *gnomon* slimes sladegen on the way out 03:09:47 eek! 03:10:10 the other drawback would be my burning desire to play with lisp. (maybe it's all those parentheses) 03:10:43 asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.242] has joined #scheme 03:12:08 -!- luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 03:15:32 stiv: perhaps combine the two... quick google shows at least two toy scheme interpreters written in lua. 03:16:08 sladegen, now you are scaring me! 03:18:53 well, it is scary, compiling scheme to C is common implementation stretegy. 03:20:23 chibi scheme looks interesting 03:25:36 yup, breath of fresh air, its imlplementor works hard on the new scheme standarization WG1..., too. 03:28:45 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:29:41 -!- scottmcl66 [~chatzilla@c-68-33-81-72.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:29:54 scottmcl66 [~chatzilla@c-68-33-81-72.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:32:00 is the cube of something defined in scheme? 03:32:45 IE: a (cube x)? 03:33:21 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-200-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:40:11 probably not 03:40:17 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.198.242] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:40:22 rudybot: eval (expt 10 3) 03:40:30 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 03:40:30 *offby1: ; Value: 1000 03:40:31 hmm 03:51:23 rudybot: eval (cube 'x) 03:51:24 sladegen: ; Value: xxx 03:51:34 zexy! 03:52:02 rudybot: eval (cube 'sex) 03:52:03 sladegen: ; Value: sexsexsex 03:53:32 rudybot: give Thomas_H cube 03:53:32 Thomas_H: sladegen has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 03:58:36 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:00:47 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@99.13.242.166] has quit [Quit: ros3] 04:02:38 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:04:41 -!- scottmcl66 [~chatzilla@c-68-33-81-72.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:06:11 rudybot: eval (FLAB) 04:06:12 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: FLAB in module: 'program 04:06:12 scottmcl66 [~chatzilla@c-68-33-81-72.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:06:24 rudybot: flab slab drab hab. 04:06:25 *offby1: Daemmerung, Has du etwas zeit für mich, denn singe ich ein Lied für dich, von Neun-und-neunzig blümenkraften, womit ich du zu Schlaf hab machte. Und in deinem Schlaf geh' ich in dein Haus, und nehme ich deine Kinder raus, und brenge ich sie in meinen Badezimmer, und ficke ich sie wie Deutscher, immer. 04:12:43 du hast! 04:15:06 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 04:20:32 Daemmerung [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 04:25:00 scottmcl66_ [~chatzilla@c-68-33-81-72.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:25:30 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:25:49 rudybot: t8 de en Daemmerung, Has du etwas zeit für mich, denn singe ich ein Lied für dich, von Neun-und-neunzig blümenkraften, womit ich du zu Schlaf hab machte. Und in deinem Schlaf geh' ich in dein Haus, und nehme ich deine Kinder raus, und brenge ich sie in meinen Badezimmer, und ficke ich sie wie Deutscher, immer. 04:25:49 sladegen: Twilight, Has something you time For me, for I sing you a song Fri, from nine blmenkraften-and-nine, by which I made you have to sleep. And in your sleep I'll go in your house, and I take your children out, and I brengen in my bathroom, and I fuck her like a German, always. 04:26:34 rudybot: your such a crude. 04:26:35 sladegen: [18] For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter., ..[Type ,more] 04:26:53 ,more 04:27:05 -!- scottmcl66 [~chatzilla@c-68-33-81-72.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:27:09 -!- scottmcl66_ is now known as scottmcl66 04:28:39 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:32:07 -!- scottmcl66 [~chatzilla@c-68-33-81-72.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 04:32:16 *Daemmerung* grimaces 04:38:36 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #scheme 04:38:45 04:38:45 Riastradh, memo from rudybot: klutometis told me to tell you: it might be nice to have a pipe matched with another automatically in paredit.el; it's trivial with autopairs, but still. 04:38:45 Riastradh, memo from klutometis: here's a pipe-patch against the current paredit-beta: . it is mainly a duplication of the double-quote logic. 04:38:55 *Riastradh* stumbles backward. 04:40:13 :o 04:42:21 *sladegen* dreams of pipes. 04:43:24 *foof* offers sladegen a peace pipe 04:45:18 What's new and exciting in the (insert context here) world? 04:45:41 initial WG1 ballot is available 04:45:53 *foof* is going to need a lot more peace pipes 04:49:39 just add the wacky tobaccy and make folks share. 04:49:59 On a totally unrelated note, what do you folks all use to store pass phrases? I have been inspired by a hard disk failure to stop using Mac OS X's keychain, which I had been intending to do for a long time. 04:50:23 KeePassX 04:50:30 *foof* uses a single gpg-encrypted file, backed up on a friend's server 04:50:37 it's slightly annoying, but cross-platform 04:52:10 it's in a CSV format, allowing for a quick grepping by acccount for the passwd I need 04:52:31 I keep all my passwords on a pastebin online! 04:52:43 never have to worry about losing them then 04:52:51 What happens when the paste expires, copumpkin? 04:52:58 Most of them other than lisppaste tend to do that. 04:53:03 don't be silly, it's on a site that doesn't expire them 04:53:12 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:53:24 *copumpkin* is proud of his fancy password scheme 04:53:36 Adamant, yikes, Qt! 04:53:56 Riastradh: yes, that's the annoying bit 04:54:28 you could try Password Safe or others 04:54:35 the original 04:55:42 no, that's Win32 only, IIRC 04:55:55 What is this `Win32' thing of which you speak? 04:56:30 you'd think we'd be at Win64 by now 04:56:40 it was considered winning back in 1932 04:57:11 and wing64 was only considered winning because everyone was on drugs that year 04:57:15 *foof* passes the peace pipe 04:57:20 Ah, back when John Godwin became chancellor at the Reichstag? 04:57:44 Excuse me, Mike Godwin. 04:57:50 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 05:21:15 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:23:02 rudybot eval (grab) 05:24:12 caps 05:24:39 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 05:25:18 rudybot: your such a cutie when you zombie around with us. 05:25:19 sladegen: so please stop abusing your op power your power addicted cutie 05:25:47 /set +b rudybot 05:28:23 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 05:30:30 lol 05:30:54 rudybot eval (GRAB) 05:31:07 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 05:31:08 Thomas_H: your sandbox is ready 05:31:09 Thomas_H: ; Value: # 05:31:16 .. 05:31:17 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 05:44:04 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:18 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 05:56:07 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 06:02:48 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:57 Can someone give me a hand with my code? http://pastebin.com/yhS8EeKE 06:06:09 This is for SICP exercise 1.8 06:07:36 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 06:07:39 I can't seem to evaluate it 06:07:49 What happens when you try? 06:07:52 It doesn't give me any info when I C-x C-e 06:07:57 Its just... nothing 06:08:22 A little more context, first. What Scheme system are you using? 06:09:18 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:09:18 Mit/Gnu Scheme 06:09:37 edwin editor 06:09:51 I hope that isn't ed for windows 06:09:59 for windows 06:09:59 OK. Have you typed the code into the *scheme *buffer? 06:10:06 ...`the *scheme* buffer', rather. 06:10:33 How do I check? 06:10:40 copumpkin, no, I think Edwin predates Windows. 06:10:58 Thomas_H, where have you entered the code? 06:11:22 Into the text area at the beggining 06:11:53 oh good 06:11:59 Thomas_H, if you look at the bottom of the window, does it say something like `--**-Edwin: *scheme* (REPL: listen)'? 06:14:12 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:14:13 yeah... um 06:14:28 Let me just restart edwin.. 06:16:02 yeah it still isn't doing anything 06:16:23 If you type (+ 1 2), and then hit C-x C-e, what do you see? 06:16:58 REPL needs a response before evaluation will be enabled 06:17:45 If you look at the bottom of the window, does it say `*scheme*' like I asked before? 06:18:08 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:18:16 (Scheme: Listen) like that 06:18:51 --**Edwin: cubert.scm (scheme:listen)---Bot------------- 06:18:52 No, that's a little different. I'm guessing that it looks something like `--**-Edwin: foo.scm (Scheme: listen)', which is not quite the same. 06:19:08 right 06:19:12 OK. Type `C-x b *scheme* RET' to switch to the REPL buffer, which is called `*scheme*'. 06:19:57 (In case you're not familiar with Emacs notation for keys, that means: hold down control while typing `x', then type `b', then type `*scheme*', then hit the return key.) 06:21:51 When you have done that, do you see Scheme asking you a question? 06:22:21 yeah! 06:22:28 It is evaluating now 06:22:33 My code just doesn't work :D 06:23:04 (thanks for the clarification: I was typing in RET' cluelessly) 06:23:08 OK. Before you go much further, I suggest that you read the tutorial by typing `C-h t', as Edwin recommends when you start it up. 06:23:34 yeah I read the whole thing awhile ago 06:23:38 and I remember the part about buffers 06:23:48 I just never have to use it 06:25:05 all I need is my C-x C-e, arrow keys, C-spacebar, C-_, C-w, C-y, and C-x f/s 06:25:18 :\ 06:27:40 pretty nooby I guess.. I should learn some more commands 06:32:39 ;The procedure #[compiled-procedure 11 ("arith" #xb3) #xf #x1ed256b] has been called with 2 arguments; it requires exactly 1 argument. 06:32:50 ^ what is that trying to tell me? 06:33:13 It is telling you that you applied a procedure, for which Scheme doesn't currently have debugging information available, to two arguments, when it expected you to apply it to only one. 06:33:17 I understand the 2 arguments part... but how do I know what [compiled-procedure 11 is? 06:34:43 If you type (pp #@11), Scheme may load debugging information for it; you can make Scheme load the debugging information before printing the error message by evaluating (set! load-debugging-info-on-demand? #t), which you can put in your .scheme.init file if you always want it. 06:35:10 (Specifically, (pp #@11) will try to load the debugging information in order to pretty-print the procedure's source code.) 06:35:54 oooo 06:35:59 what is that called? 06:36:07 What is what called? 06:36:11 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:36:12 (pp 06:36:21 Also, if Scheme asks you whether you want to enter the debugger, and you answer `y', it will describe much more information about what happened. 06:36:38 `PP' stands for pretty-print. It is a procedure that pretty-prints objects, including the source code for procedures if available. 06:36:50 does it work for anything? 06:37:05 well I guess I could just try 06:37:29 (pp +) = !!!!! 06:37:31 whoa 06:37:32 You can pass anything to PP, but it won't always provide more information than Scheme showed you when it printed the object ordinarily. 06:37:39 this is cool 06:37:58 For example, if debugging information is not available for the procedure, then PP will stubbornly continue to show just #[compiled-procedure ...] with no further information. 06:38:25 I see 06:39:11 The `source code' output of PP is approximate, by the way; you can't usually just take what it outputs and type `C-x C-e' to get back a procedure identical to what you passed to PP, for various reasons. For example, what (pp +) is pretty silly, and not real Scheme code. 06:39:48 (Well, it could be evaluated in an appropriate environment, but its meaning as Scheme is not what PP intends for you to understand by it.) 06:40:38 right, so take it with a grain of salt 06:40:55 but it is pretty neat to see that sort of thing anyways 06:40:57 Exactly. It's a heuristic debugging tool. 06:41:15 -!- saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:41:50 oh darn, i was hoping that was the real source to + 06:42:26 No, the real source looks more like (make-arity-dispatched-procedure (named-lambda (+ self . zs) (reduce complex:+ 0 zs)) (named-lambda (nullary-+) 0) ...). 06:42:45 ...which is generated by a (special-purpose) macro; see runtime/arith.scm. 06:43:04 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 06:43:14 Oops, actually, it doesn't even use MAKE-ARITY-DISPATCHED-PROCEDURE, although I don't remember offhand why not. 06:43:36 my compiler used case-lambda for a while then switched to cond + apply for > 2 args 06:43:57 (It probably has to do with cold load cruft.) 06:44:07 saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 06:45:57 so I went into /runtime/ and there are a bunch of .bci files 06:46:04 are these just scm files? 06:46:10 No, those are debugging information files. 06:46:39 (BCI probably stands for Binary Compressed (debugging) Information, or something like that.) 06:46:42 -!- adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:55 I see 06:47:01 -!- mastertogo [~togo@ip70-171-249-111.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:47:32 You can find the source code at . 06:47:57 adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 06:49:47 oh god I love programming 06:50:08 this is so cool :O 06:51:10 (my cube root program still doesn't work though, says 32 isn't an applicable object - seems to want a procedure?) 06:51:23 That's right. You can't apply a number as if it were a procedure. 06:51:56 By the way, you can use lisppaste directly through Edwin: mark the region you want to paste, and type `M-x lisppaste-region RET'. 06:52:13 If you use lisppaste, I'll take a look at your code. 06:53:02 awesome. I have to get my edwin cheat sheet to mark that down! 06:55:52 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-148-21.net.novis.pt] has left #scheme 07:01:29 umm 07:01:35 Did it work? :p 07:01:50 under channel I just put "scheme" 07:02:21 mastertogo [~togo@ip70-171-249-111.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 07:03:32 and it says it does work... 07:03:45 and now when I do it again it doesn't let me change it? 07:06:14 Use `C-u M-x lisppaste-region' to force it to prompt you. 07:06:31 For the channel, you need to put `#scheme'. If you hit TAB, it will give you a list of completions. 07:07:11 Thomas_H pasted "SICP Ex 1.8" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/100314 07:07:21 oh man is that ever slick! 07:07:50 ...and you can insert the contents of the paste numbered N into the buffer by typing `M-x lisppaste-insert-paste RET N RET'. 07:08:29 What jumps out at me first about that code is that you evaluate (x) inside GOOD-ENOUGH?. When x is a variable, the expression (x) means `Scheme, please apply the value of the variable x as a procedure to zero arguments.' 07:09:27 yeah.. that doesn't seem right 07:09:51 I'm trying to do this exercise and learn about block structure at the same time 07:10:19 let me fiddle with this for a second... 07:10:20 Remember that in Scheme, every parenthesis matters. 07:10:42 If you add a parenthesis, you pretty much always change the meaning of the program. 07:14:08 So if you just wanted to pass the value of the variable x to some procedure, you simply write x in the list of operands, rather than (x). 07:14:20 I know, they kill me 07:14:31 ahh 07:14:37 I remember this from the lectures 07:14:55 (x) is the unknown procedure 07:14:55 x is the value 07:14:55 right? 07:15:32 (side question: when I opened up the help box it split the windows in edwin... how do I make it so that only a single buffer is on screen?) 07:15:56 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:14 The value of the expression x is the value of the variable x. The value of the expression (x) is computed by finding the value of the variable x, applying it as a procedure to zero arguments, and then using what the procedure returns. (If the value of the variable x is not a procedure, this makes no sense, of course.) 07:16:23 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 07:16:35 C-x 0 (weird command) 07:16:55 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 07:17:00 that makes sense 07:17:41 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:41 messed something up in edwin again.. 07:19:12 okay... so I selected the buffer to be *scheme* with C-x b... but it doesn't print anything when I do an evaluation 07:19:26 Does it still say `(REPL: listen)' in the mode line? 07:19:38 Ohhh 07:19:41 it says REPL: eval 07:19:48 That means it's busy evaluating something already. 07:20:26 You can stop it by typing `C-c C-c'. 07:20:53 hmm 07:21:03 so my code is doing this... 07:21:08 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-20-82-64-26-107.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:22:23 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-20-82-64-26-107.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:33 alright I got it working now 07:22:35 Ahh! 07:22:44 my code prints a value now 07:22:50 wrong values though 07:23:03 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-20-82-64-26-107.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 07:23:13 oh nvm 07:23:18 it works... WOO HOOO! 07:23:59 oh man, thanks for your help... I learned a lot with that exercise 07:24:01 holy smokes 07:25:37 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-127-5.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:28:14 *Thomas_H* reads on 07:31:24 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Quit: Goin' away] 07:42:51 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 07:43:03 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 07:45:48 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:47:58 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:55:51 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:09:52 rahuljha [~rahuljha@122.166.180.19] has joined #scheme 08:26:28 dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-233-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:28:44 masm [~masm@2.80.128.213] has joined #scheme 08:30:27 -!- lisptast` [~user@76.177.227.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:59 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-140.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 08:45:07 -!- saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:45:19 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:49:43 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 08:53:04 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-233-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:35 dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-233-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 08:59:03 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-254-202.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:04:19 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 09:11:08 -!- Blkt`` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-230-215.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERROR: do not makunbound t please!] 09:13:17 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-233-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:48 alvatar [~alvatar@59.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 09:27:13 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 09:29:44 ajcc [~Adrian@81-234-205-71-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #scheme 09:37:40 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 09:49:09 -!- ajcc [~Adrian@81-234-205-71-no118.tbcn.telia.com] has left #scheme 10:04:33 -!- m811 [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: "If you put a million monkeys at a million keyboards, one of them will eventually write a Java program. 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[~b83b11d0@gateway/web/freenode/x-bdeaascrxxzmzcqn] has joined #scheme 16:09:15 should i be using read-bytes-avail!* to do a non-blocking read on a socket? 16:09:23 it never appear sto read anything 16:12:03 ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@75-119-244-229.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 16:29:06 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:29:12 fabe [~fabe@p54A7DAB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:30:58 Owner_, the answer to your question is probably yes. (I presume you're using PLT Scheme.) As to your problem, you need to give more information. How are you using it? Are you sure that the other end point has sent data to your socket? 16:31:39 i connect via telnet and type in characters and returns 16:31:45 yes, it's plt 16:32:11 Do any of you know if there is any scmutils (for the book Structure and Interpretation of Classical Mechanics) for DrScheme? 16:32:21 by the way Riastradh good to see you are back. 16:32:22 If you run the server with, say, netcat or socat, do you see output? 16:32:38 I do get a connectionnetcat or socat? 16:32:38 this channel is never the same if you aren't in it. 16:32:41 this is windows... 16:33:16 tcp-accept appears to work 16:34:16 emma, doubtful, but the person who is probably best to ask is Will Farr; his email address is his surname at csail.mit.edu. 16:34:38 Owner_, oh, Windows. I don't know, then -- I assume everything is broken there anyway. 16:34:51 ok thanks 16:34:53 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@129.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:08 Owner_, well, what happens if you do a blocking read? 16:35:17 i'm going to try that now 16:37:06 if i change read-bytes-avail!* to read-bytes-avail! it works 16:37:35 emma: the last I heard, there was not. Apparently it would be not trivial to port. Highly mit-scheme dependent. 16:37:56 hm. 16:38:15 something about the macrology, and Sussman's coding style. All hearsay from a couple years ago, mind you. 16:38:23 Riastradh: but then it's blocking 16:38:24 I guess I'll get to know MIT scheme then..... :[ 16:38:33 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-195-36.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:39:10 there are one or two mit-scheme users hereabouts. occasionally they speak up. 16:39:53 that is, when they're not out working on their golf game or whatever Riastradh is up to nowadays 16:40:05 Golf? 16:40:07 *Riastradh* blinks. 16:40:22 Badminton, then. 16:40:23 *Riastradh* raises several eyebrows, too, for added effect. 16:40:41 *Daemmerung* maintains a straight face 16:40:46 greco-roman wrestling? 16:40:54 Now yer talking. 16:41:00 Beekeeping 16:41:22 bee wrestling 16:41:35 Greco-roman beekeeping. Wearing nothing but oil and a smudge pot. 16:42:24 Owner_, at this point, you should lisppaste your code so that others can read it and test it themselves, rather than guessing at precisely what you're doing with READ-BYTES-AVAIL!*. 16:42:31 *stiv* wipes spilled coffee from keyboard 16:44:03 lisppaste: url 16:44:04 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 16:46:24 Owner_ pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/100319 16:47:09 I forget to change it back to * 16:47:24 but it's the same thing otherwise 16:48:42 stiv: If you have a model-M, you'd have drain holes! 16:48:43 My first reaction is that you should use an event for reading from any of the clients, rather than looping through them yourself and trying to read from each one individually. At the very least, it will keep your server from busy-waiting. 16:49:05 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 16:49:52 Quadrescence, that is really a requirement for the wittier irc channels 16:49:52 Owner_ annotated #100319 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/100319#1 16:50:13 Riastradh: thanks 16:50:18 never used events before 16:53:44 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 16:55:48 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 16:56:45 -!- Owner_ [~b83b11d0@gateway/web/freenode/x-bdeaascrxxzmzcqn] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59:36 -!- rahuljha [~rahuljha@122.166.180.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:33 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:05:47 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e02b45e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 17:06:41 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:08:24 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 17:09:12 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:09:13 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:13:55 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e02b45e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 17:19:41 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-1-77.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:13 vmixey [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 17:23:52 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 17:24:24 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 17:24:44 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 17:26:21 rahuljha [~rahuljha@122.166.180.19] has joined #scheme 17:26:56 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 17:27:49 alvatar [~alvatar@43.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:28:02 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 17:31:02 -!- xwl [~user@61.149.81.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:31:21 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 17:32:58 anyone here know how to install mit scheme on ubuntu (10.04) ? 17:35:47 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-53-92.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:35:52 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:36:58 emma: on i386 (32 bit) it should be just sudo apt-get install mit-scheme 17:38:22 but i have a 64 bit machine :( 17:38:55 does that matter? 17:39:11 -!- vmixey [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:42:13 vmixey [~quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #scheme 17:44:22 bremner: do you suppose it matters if my machine is 64 bit? 17:45:34 emma: I'm no expert, but I think mit-scheme only works in 32 bit mode. What does uname -a say? 17:45:52 i definitely have a 64 bit machine. 17:46:10 use a different scheme? 17:47:28 there might be tricks to work around this if you absolutely need mit-scheme. 17:51:26 emma: you could get scmutils installation which is based on mit-scheme http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/6946/scmutils-tarballs/ 17:52:13 but iirc mit-scheme provides binary "distro-agnostic" builds, too. 17:52:16 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:02 sladegen: my hole purpose is to get scmutils so i can use it to work through structure and interpretation of classical mechanics. 17:53:39 oh there is a mit-scheme tgz on that page 17:53:48 mit-scheme-20100210-AMDx86-64-gnu-linuz 17:53:51 liunx 17:54:09 weird. I wonder why debian doesn't build it on amd64 17:54:23 it's a recent development. distros tend to lag 17:54:33 emma: so, git it, i answered before reading scroll back. 17:54:44 basically all software is totally broken and screwed 17:55:01 it seems to be an incredible coincidence that anything works 17:55:39 ros3 [~roselynro@99-203-211-255.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #scheme 17:56:35 that's what makes the field so much fun for me: the constant sense of delight and wonder that anything works at all. 17:56:42 mit-scheme seems a bit undermaintained on debian (and hence on Ubuntu) 17:56:56 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@99-203-211-255.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:56 alvatar_ [~alvatar@188.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:58:03 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@43.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:00:07 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:10 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 18:10:40 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:12:27 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-62-21.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:13:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-60.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:18:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:18:53 mit-scheme has zero interest in becoming a widely used scheme. It prefers if only a certain type of person can use it. That's why it will never become adopted by a lot of people like Python has. And therefor there will be very few people who use it, or make it better, or even know about it. Until finally the handful of people who can all die. And then it will be extinct. And all of you who cared about mit-scheme will also be dead, but no one will be around ... 18:18:59 ... who can recognize any of your work. 18:19:55 You have a policy of extinction and irrelevance. Way to go. 18:21:31 In the long run, that pretty much applies to anything. 18:23:45 yeah, once the sun burns out, we're pretty much totally screwed 18:24:53 okay well i appreciate you taking my angry words lightly. I was just temporarily enraged :) 18:25:05 stiv, we'll just move to another sun 18:26:10 Actually, isn't the sun supposed to increase in volume a few hundred times (and consume the earth) before it extinguishes? 18:26:27 yes 18:31:51 success! 18:32:14 I just installed scmutils directly from the binary tarball 18:32:27 and it seems to take care of mit-scheme and edwin itself, somehow. 18:33:57 oh god this all runs in emacs? 18:37:25 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:39 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 18:46:59 bremner, MIT Scheme has native support for the i386 and x86-64 architectures, and the portable C version runs on many 32-bit and 64-bit architectures. I don't know anything about the Debian packaging -- you should contact Chris about that. 18:47:24 emma, we don't have a marketing department here at the MIT Scheme offices. Were you offering to be one? 18:50:31 emma, yes, one usually interacts with MIT Scheme either by using Edwin or in GNU Emacs with xscheme.el. If you just want a REPL at the console, `scheme --band mechanics.com' (or perhaps `--band /path/to/mechanics.com') should give you that. 18:58:03 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:00:38 incubot: where is your insanity department? 19:00:43 i actually know some people who care a lot and push this "abstraction uber alles" approach. the new math insanity was largely fueled by these people, i think :) 19:01:15 watch our or you'll piss of Cantor. 19:01:41 rudybot: where is your insanity department? 19:01:43 *offby1: Why not use lua? Embedding lisp in C++ is close to insanity. 19:02:00 typo dido datta 19:04:47 "I took a stab at porting scmutils to the guile implementation of scheme" 19:04:57 ... why would someone do this.. seriously? 19:05:16 if you are porting scmutils because it _only works on one implementation_... the solution is not to port it so it only works on two... 19:05:27 the guy should be making an R5RS implementation of scmutils 19:05:40 vmixey, hmm, why would someone keep changing one's nickname? 19:06:30 hey Riastradh 19:06:55 Let me know when you figure out how to make an environment in which the arithmetic operators and procedure application and so on all have different behaviour -- more general, and dynamically editable. 19:06:56 whats going down ? 19:07:02 ...in the R5RS. 19:07:23 okay well R5RS + module system 19:07:29 :( 19:08:03 Riastradh: different moods? 19:08:14 different parole officers. 19:08:48 a different passport for every intelligence agency that uses me 19:09:06 copumpkin, I don't think one typically maintains about the same mood for a year, and then suddenly switches to a new mood for another year, and so on... 19:09:17 and one for Argentina, just in case 19:09:55 maniacal depressives do. 19:10:03 Riastradh, infact common lisp would probably work 19:10:11 with AMOP 19:10:23 but do you get my general point 19:10:24 ? 19:10:32 1 and 2 are roughly the same 19:10:56 Is your general point that you're stepping up to improve what you're complaining about? 19:11:09 I am quite happy with MIT scheme... 19:11:14 it's this other guy who is complaining 19:11:54 well he's not really complaining 19:12:39 I'm just saying why port from A -> B when you could port from A -> {A,B,C,D,...} 19:13:22 vmixey: parrot? 19:13:58 Let w : 2^(Scheme implementations) -> (units of work) map each set of Scheme implementations to the amount of work it takes to port scmutils to those Scheme implementations. I posit that w is not a constant function. 19:14:41 (Even ignoring the degenerate case of w({}).) 19:15:07 yes okay but let us consider the lagrangian of w 19:16:16 *offby1* 's nerd threshold is exceeded 19:16:23 ETOOLONGDIDNTREAD 19:16:37 offby1, that's OK, at least it wasn't tl;bh. 19:17:37 heh 19:17:43 ham ill tone ian it. and seek symmetries. 19:22:12 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 19:23:06 Hello Riastradh. 19:24:24 Hi. 19:25:05 Is it just me, or is the average comprehensibility of the discussion in this channel heading for an all-time low? 19:29:37 Well, that depends on what interval of time you average over. 19:30:43 -!- somnium [~user@adsl-65-186-62.dab.bellsouth.net] has left #scheme 19:30:45 Maybe the question could be answered more clearly by taking the Fourier transform of the comprehensibility rate over all time. 19:32:47 s/rate/level/1 19:36:19 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:36:37 *vmixey* discretely takes the fourier transform 19:36:41 over long enough periods it all averages to zero anyway. 19:38:35 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-62-21.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 19:46:43 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:46:54 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:08 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 19:47:34 . 19:48:25 .: not enough arguments 19:48:54 command not found: .: 19:49:07 incubot: Let's Argue! 19:49:10 in American it says: "tastes and colors cannot be discussed" or "one doesn't argue about taste and color". 19:49:22 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 19:50:46 in the long run we are all dead 19:52:07 rudybot: what about cryogenics? 19:52:09 bremner: interesting enough that the discussion on menu-bar came up.. i was about to say about it a bit earlier.. i have (menu-bar-mode -1) ever since my second month of emacs and still have.. but now, i have a tired hand,wrapped up in bandages and now i gave menu bar a try and it looks cool that emacs have addressed efficient use of mouse too:) and last day johnsu01 was talking about emacs on openmoko, that emacs is pretty useful with point 19:52:47 wow 19:53:07 I've signed up for a cryogenic service. It's important to me that I stay dead for as long as possible. 19:53:18 thus getting the most value for your dollar 19:53:28 I'll try not to wake you up 19:53:44 Thanks. I would really prefer not to end up a zombie. 19:54:10 start trek will come and defrost us all. 19:54:41 stop trek... /me facepalms. 19:54:45 Riastradh: Care to fix the parser to handle #| |# comments? (broken by JRM; edwin barfs bla ha ha bha ha #F) 19:55:39 Blargh. I don't even like #| |# comments... 19:57:32 that was so embarassing thta time when I was like omg who invented those silly #;(...) comments 19:57:37 and it turned out to be you 19:57:51 Me? 19:57:55 yeah 19:57:59 I didn't invent them. 19:58:02 you did too 19:58:08 ... 19:59:01 Bla ha bla ha ... 19:59:49 *chandler* watches in amusement as reality rewrites itself to match fax's assertions. 20:00:59 Something is rotten in the state of #scheme 20:02:32 smells like horse was too poor to pay for cryogenics... 20:09:52 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-67-78-79-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:10:32 what is rotten in the state of #scheme? 20:10:57 how do I eval the whole buffer in edwin? 20:10:58 A reality distortion field. 20:10:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:11:07 vmixey: M-o 20:11:12 (C-h w eval-current-buffer RET) 20:11:25 *Daemmerung* flashes on the death ramblings of GlaDOS, for some reason 20:11:50 thanks Riastradh, that works 20:11:53 kuribas [~user@d54C2AD98.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 20:12:00 Thomas_H: Heaven will direct it. 20:12:04 I'm curious why it's not in the C-h b help bindings file though 20:12:35 I see it there, vmixey. 20:13:07 Note that the binding is disabled in the REPL mode, because otherwise it would be too easy to accidentally repeat all your prior interactions (and all the errors they caused and so on). 20:22:30 -!- alvatar_ [~alvatar@188.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:28:19 jao [~jao@138.Red-88-6-166.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:36 This is probably a place of bias to ask this... but is MIT/GNU scheme the best way to program scheme? Is there a better way? 20:29:13 *stiv* goes looking for the One True Scheme 20:29:24 haha 20:29:40 This is a place of many biases. 20:30:35 my favorite scheme is MIT-scheme right now 20:31:46 Have you used it for more than a day or so? 20:32:03 no 20:32:06 A few days.. not much 20:32:17 vmixey: Well, then, I'd say that input isn't worth much. 20:32:20 Thomas_H: If you're looking for alternatives; I quite like PLT Scheme. They're about to release a new major version (5.0). 20:32:32 okay 20:33:02 I'm working through SICP, so I'm concered that PLT will have weird complications 20:33:17 MIT scheme has a special SICP mode I think 20:33:23 but then again so does PLT 20:33:30 really? 20:33:33 yes 20:33:35 SICP mode... 20:33:43 >_> 20:33:49 you know how PLT supports all these different languages 20:33:57 I am pretty sure SICP is one of them 20:34:41 wingo [~wingo@81.38.179.115] has joined #scheme 20:35:10 noscheme with nosql connecter is way better. 20:35:42 what is the website for noscheme ? 20:36:01 sladegen: hilarious buzzword-pastiche 20:36:46 Thomas_H: There is a SICP language for PLT on PLaneT. See http://www.neilvandyke.org/sicp-plt/ for documentation. 20:37:09 yellow 20:37:20 Green, wingo. 20:37:30 Orange you glad to be in #scheme? 20:37:32 I do not think that word means what you think it means, wingo! 20:37:37 har ;-) 20:37:45 it's http://www.localhost.tld:8080/ 20:38:15 Azure as the day i was born, Riastradh :) 20:38:37 *wingo* looses the pun-hound 20:39:12 I hoped you might lose it instead, wingo. 20:40:16 I w'in go THAT far. 20:42:34 wingo, I was looking for a scheme-ish language to embed in C/C++ apps. someone said you were single-handedly reviving guile. 20:43:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:23 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-106.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:49:07 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-140.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:52:05 stiv: there are other hands ;) 20:52:22 guile is fine. i like it. foof's chibi scheme might be nice as well. 20:53:40 wingo, always good to have someone to share the blame! someone mentioned chibi scheme last nite. it seems both lite and under development 20:53:58 *stiv* had the impression guile had kinda sorta fallen by the wayside 20:54:10 perhaps a valid impression 20:54:20 not so much the case any more, i'd hope 20:54:27 though i am not a qualified observer :) 20:54:38 what is the best way to compute factorials in scheme? 20:55:02 20:56:01 Thomas_H: read any scheme text ever written :) 20:56:14 (define (factorial-aux n acc) (if (zero? n) acc (factorial-aux n (* n acc)))) (defines (factorial n) (factorial-aux n 1)) 20:56:22 *stiv* tries not to laugh 20:56:48 oh, that. I thought you want an algorithm that completed in sub-exponential time :) 20:57:53 mejja, comments should be fixed now. 20:59:08 wingo, I'm willing to entertain unqualified opinion - especially from someone working on the project. basically, I'm looking for a scheme that can be embedded and extended via C/C++ similar to how one might use python 21:00:45 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:01:02 *Thomas_H* reads a scheme book 21:01:41 -!- rahuljha [~rahuljha@122.166.180.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:21 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@232-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 21:04:38 *offby1* reads tea leaves 21:04:41 -!- kuribas [~user@d54C2AD98.access.telenet.be] has left #scheme 21:10:02 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 21:10:30 *Thomas_H* spills tea on his scheme book 21:10:31 FUCK 21:11:07 This space reserved for TEA STAINS 21:11:35 stiv: guile works in that regard. some other schemes do as well. just choose one, all of them have their joys and inconveniences :) 21:11:58 Thomas_H.. sad to think of that :( 21:12:09 *vmixey* doesn't own SICP but I can imagine 21:12:34 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has left #scheme 21:12:42 the thing was expensive... I don't let anything liquid near it 21:13:11 wingo, sensible advice! /me is a little overwhelmed with all the choices at the moment. best to just dive in, I guess. 21:13:15 *vmixey* always has an eye out incase a second hand bookstore has it 21:13:20 very low chance though.. 21:13:43 Thomas_H: my copy of SICP looks pristine. Probably a bad sign. 21:14:13 a wire brush and a little coffee can fix that! 21:14:14 stiv: if you find a few implementations that seem to do what you want (extend C/C++), I'd choose the one that seems most active. 21:14:28 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 21:14:28 also, developer presence on IRC counts for a lot :) 21:15:10 in addition to liberal tea and diet crack(R) stains, my SICP is bedecked with the scribblings of my two-year old toddler like an illuminated manuscript 21:15:38 offby1, yeah, that was starting to turn into a deciding factor. hence the questions about guile 21:15:43 that is hardstyle right there 21:16:33 sicp == finis africae 21:16:45 klutometis: ever so gently nudge him or her towards the exercises ... perhaps s/he'll stumble onto some novel solutions 21:16:50 which you can then forward to the authors 21:17:19 or perhaps  21:18:12 I'm afraid of some of the exercises 21:18:25 I finished 1.8 last night and that kicked my ass 21:18:33 I can't imagine what is forward in the book 21:18:44 I don't have any previous programming experience though, mind you 21:18:54 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-74.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:25 SICP is a very hard beginner book :P if you get that done you'll be very much ahead 21:19:39 I got stuck and had to give up on the last chapters 21:20:09 \me still hasn't done chapter 5 21:20:27 Its kind of fun 21:21:07 *sladegen* will do it in the meta-life. 21:21:34 I have to re read lots though, I have to read other novels and things to remind myself that I can actually read faster than 5 pages / day or something like that :0 21:21:40 *wingo* hasn't done chapter 5 either 21:22:25 Isn't chapter 5 supposed to be where programming trancends code and you just use magic or something like that? 21:22:44 lol 21:25:34 rainbow-farting unicorns 21:26:17 chandler, so, uh, what's new in the world of...discussions that make sense?nnnn 21:26:22 ...er, without the trailing n's. 21:26:58 My aim is to show that the heavenly machine is not a kind of divine, live being, but a kind of clockwork (and he who believes that a clock has soul attributes the maker's glory to the work), insofar as nearly all the manifold motions are caused by a most simple and material force, just as all motions of the clock are caused by a single weight. 21:26:58 Johannes Kepler (letter to Herwart von Hohenburg, 1605) 21:27:02 O.o 21:27:52 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 21:28:00 Did you see Keplers theory about celestial bodies? 21:28:11 the one about all the nested platonic solids 21:28:51 i did 21:29:06 and after reading galileo's observations 21:29:11 makes more sense than the timecube 21:29:14 fascinating that they were in correspondence 21:29:48 the one almost positivist, the other wondering if life existed on jupiter's moons 21:44:00 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:23 offby1: good call, actually; the infant mind is an abyss of surreality. 21:45:20 arcfide [~arcfide@adsl-99-50-226-43.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:45:20 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:43 foof: ping 21:46:03 Riastradh: Not much. I've just been quietly hacking code and looking forward to PLT TLYTBKAR 5.0. 21:48:55 arcfide: how are things on the working-group front, btw? 21:49:20 okay what the heck is with that timecube website 21:49:34 where did it come from? why do people talk about it? 21:49:55 Thomas_H: I just think its hilarious 21:50:08 Thomas_H: it's the result of a psylocybin experiment, apparently. 21:50:19 klutometis: Um, what do you mean by that? :-) We're making progress, logging a lot of issues, and we're taking a sample voting of stuff to get a quick run down on the 67+ issues in the tracker right now. 21:50:33 We've had a number of interesting proposals on various topics. 21:50:39 Discussion has slowed down. 21:51:18 arcfide: i noticed the slow-down, and was loath to see wg[12] go the way of ERR5RS; just curious whether there had been any tangible results. 21:51:27 Hah! 21:51:36 It is way too early, IMO for something like that. 21:52:03 We are taking a preliminary vote right now though. 21:52:18 nice; reminds me of jarndyce vs. jarndyce. 21:52:51 Really, some of these things require time, and people shouldn't expect us to be replacing or supplanting R6RS or R5RS any time soon, if you ask me. 21:54:03 of course not; but boredom is a disease that blights buds of good intention. 21:54:11 i just like to crack the whip once and awhile ;) 21:54:23 doc_who [~doc_who@c-98-231-201-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:01:08 That's what we have excellent WG Chairs for. 22:10:42 necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:11:23 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-67-78-79-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 22:20:13 WG = working group? 22:20:53 arcfide: so you're saying we shouldn't expect R7RS until 2025? 22:22:05 how does the naming convention on R7RS work? 22:22:23 naming convention? 22:25:23 what does the R stand for etc 22:25:41 *R*elease *7* *r*eally *s*ucks? 22:25:45 Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme 22:25:51 Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme 22:25:53 etc 22:26:21 Thomas_H: oh i thought you meant an FFI naming convention, if that was the case, I developed a GHC-like naming convention here: http://pastebin.com/89hXxXPg 22:28:00 Thomas_H: this would result in names like rnrs_base_forZKeach 22:29:16 :0 22:32:59 I don't even know if we are going to go with the R7RS name. 22:33:21 And I'll leave you with that little fun nugget. 22:33:42 are you a dev? 22:34:50 Ill take it as so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FucbvoFFy0 22:35:00 is it going to be Scheme 7? or something new like Shannon 1? 22:36:17 so is EEERR5RS more likely than R7RS? 22:36:40 *vmixey* has lost interest in these specifications since R6RS 22:38:56 Riastradh: re: jrm's wreckage: strange fix you did... 22:40:41 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:40:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-MOFt2zWkw 22:41:02 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:42:31 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 22:42:44 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:58 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e02b45e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 22:44:32 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 22:46:51 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-195-36.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:54 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-195-36.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:54:53 Owner_ [~b83b11d0@gateway/web/freenode/x-hflxxeuwrqrupqem] has joined #scheme 22:55:55 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-16-74.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 22:56:36 how do you get the current thread in plt-scheme? am i just missing the obvious? i see you get a thread descriptor when you call (thread thunk). but if i want to send a message from the child thread to the parent thread's mailbox, how do i give the child thread a reference to its parent's thread? 23:03:24 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:19 TR2N [email@89.180.157.246] has joined #scheme 23:07:36 asarch [~asarch@187.132.132.188] has joined #scheme 23:12:43 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7DAB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:38 i found it 23:18:17 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:23:20 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 23:28:43 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-254-202.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:42 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.195.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:34 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.132.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:05 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 23:46:10 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.128.213] has left #scheme 23:50:54 -!- ve [~a@guava.vm.bytemark.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:54:15 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:54:32 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 23:57:59 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-60-162.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:59:33 tommylommykins [~tommylomm@nas44-220.york.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 23:59:43 hiya 23:59:58 Trying to get mit-scheme working on windows...