00:01:16 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:18 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 00:11:43 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A904EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:17 turbofail [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:17:35 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:18:23 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.34] has joined #scheme 00:25:26 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:29:04 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #scheme 00:35:38 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:36:27 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:36:30 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #scheme 00:38:58 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:42:53 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-111-80.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:44:25 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:45:13 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.56.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:39 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:56:50 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:57:49 -!- mastertogo [~togo@ip70-171-249-111.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:58:10 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #scheme 01:05:48 -!- futilius [~otheruser@cow9.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11:23 futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has joined #scheme 01:12:29 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:12:44 mastertogo [~togo@ip70-171-249-111.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:17:00 asarch [~asarch@187.132.139.42] has joined #scheme 01:18:16 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:38 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:28:55 foof: what are the range of tokyo rents? 01:30:45 there's a loop line going around the city - inside the loop is insanely expensive 01:32:38 most people end up living pretty far outside the loop (including neighboring prefectures) in very small rooms 01:33:08 maybe $700 for a one-room apartment 01:33:34 I see rents that are cheaper, actually -- 138,000 for two people. 01:33:54 what are you looking at? 01:34:14 Just googled "tokyo rent" and clicked a few links. 01:34:19 (and japanese people don't usually have roommates) 01:34:35 $700/month would be very cheap for a single apartment. 01:35:15 But cambridge is weird -- you cross a street and you're in somerville, and the prices are very different. 01:35:33 i found a place for $1000 for "two people" but it's small (35m^2) and far from the city center, and far from the closest station (18min) 01:35:52 distance to the station is a huge factor in price - everyone wants under 10min 01:36:11 (Oh, you mean tokyo, not cambridge...) 01:36:25 yeah, sorry 01:36:39 my old place was downtown, 2min from the station, 1 bedroom, $1800 01:37:39 *bremner* has stayed in Hongo and Shirogane, both inside the loop 01:37:42 for 2 people you'd be hard pressed to find under $2000 downtown 01:38:44 Over here, IIRC, for an apartment at the size that we were looking for (2.5-3 rooms), the prices were from $1400 in distant places (very => car), to around $1800 in closer ones, $2200 for decent ones, and $4000 for the really organized ones. 01:39:11 But that was in 2003-4, I have no idea where the market is now... 01:43:08 those are the minimum - the rent on nice places can get really high, $3000 is easy and i've seen $10,000 01:43:44 copumpkin_ [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:44:28 -!- masm [~masm@2.80.142.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:44:46 bremner: shirogane is close to where i used to live 01:46:12 foof: I liked it well enough. I was more like 15 minutes to a station from the "weekly mansion" 01:46:13 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:46:13 -!- copumpkin_ is now known as copumpkin 01:49:41 osaka was very different though - still a _huge_ city, but rent was 2/3 what you'd pay in tokyo 01:49:55 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:51:43 at this point i want to save up and buy a house. rent that high is just a waste. 01:53:34 What ho, foof 01:54:00 hey 01:54:54 re scheme48 modules: i need to be more clear that's _not_ what i'm arguing for 01:55:46 i don't see us agreeing on any of the different ways to extend modules, which is why i'm just proposing a static system (_not_ a scheme48-like system which is not static) 01:56:34 In what sense, not static? 01:57:08 AFAIK the only thing that s48 has that your proposal doesn't is interfaces, which amount to multiple export lists. 01:57:13 because the module description DSL (called the config language) is a subset of scheme, and can itself be extended 01:57:37 Oh, your proposal is not extensible? 01:57:59 no, in scheme48 you can ,config ,open 01:58:10 s// 01:58:23 then those module bindings become available in the config language 01:58:39 Ah, I didn't know that. 01:58:50 so, e.g. you could implement ChezWEB or whatever module system extension you want portably 01:58:53 But you do allow implementation-specific extensions, no? 01:59:11 Well, sort of portably: the modules you are opening have to be portably implemented. 01:59:17 while still maintaining a separation for easier static analysis 01:59:18 m811 [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 02:00:38 that's the same level of portability as syntactic modules 02:00:41 You mentioned an argument against changing BODY to BEGIN, but I forget what it was. 02:00:47 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 02:01:06 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 02:01:20 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:02:14 i'm still debating it 02:02:32 i haven't really said anything about scheme48-style module systems because i'm not proposing one 02:04:41 I mean in your current proposal. 02:07:19 well, in a syntactic module system my proposal would likely be implemented by just making the syntax match up 02:08:01 but in that case there are two different begins - the Scheme begin, and the begin used to include code into a module 02:08:45 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:09:37 hmmm... i guess it really wouldn't matter in the syntactic module case, but it would for a config module 02:10:08 still, scheme48 uses begin, so i'll probably switch to that 02:11:41 We have already two or three different begins. 02:12:11 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-190.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:12:15 (begin expression ...), (begin declaration ...), and (begin declaration ... expression ...) 02:12:29 the point is within the config language i'd need to define something else, like (sequence ...) 02:12:36 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:16:00 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:14 Why so? IMPORT and INCLUDE will already be shared between Scheme and the config language, no? 02:16:29 consider (begin (import foo) (export bar)) 02:17:15 this is illegal - the body of the begin is scheme code, but import and export are part of the module declaration language, and do not exist in scheme 02:17:55 Ah, I see. 02:18:05 so if you use (begin) to delimit scheme code, if you were to add some sequencing construct to the module declarations you would need a separate binding 02:18:38 Well, okay, but declarations are, er, declarative; they have no side effects, so sequencing is uninteresting. 02:18:39 my proposal does not and will not have such a sequencing construct, but chibi does and it happens to be called begin 02:19:30 again, outside the scope of the proposal, but suppose you want to implement gauche's (extend module) 02:19:45 that imports module and then re-exports all of it's bindings 02:19:51 What does begin do in the Chibi config language. 02:20:19 it sequences the forms within the context of the config language 02:20:57 so to implement that you would write a macro, which would get the list of exports and then expand into (begin (import module) (export ids ...)) 02:22:03 Oh, so your proposal allows the config language to be generated by macros? I did not undrstand that. 02:22:12 of course, if you write that macro in some module (chibi extend), and export only the `extend' keyword this is still safe because the begin would resoklve hygienically 02:22:41 that is, import only the `extend' keyword into the config language 02:23:15 NO! My proposal is a static system. Scheme48/Chibi, on the other hand, allow such extensions to the config language. 02:23:21 It would have been much better if we had separate keywords SPLICE and SEQUENCE. 02:24:31 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:01 When it comes to evaluated forms and ordinary definitions, splicing *is* sequencing. (Or are you not preserving the inner-definitions-as-letrec* semantics of R6RS?) 02:26:49 seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has joined #scheme 02:29:29 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 02:30:38 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:03 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:31:04 i've been trying to distinguish between 3 types of module system: syntactic (chez), config (scheme48/chibi), and static (r6rs) 02:31:27 (sorry, lost the last few lines) 02:31:35 i've been trying to distinguish between 3 types of module system: syntactic (chez), config (scheme48/chibi), and static (r6rs) 02:32:17 Also the run-time type 02:33:04 PLT might be considered a config-type system with its separate languages 02:34:41 *jcowan* nods. 02:35:36 i like config because it gives all the flexibility of syntactic, but adds a separation between determining the module env (imports, exports) and between actually expanding the module 02:37:31 this also makes it easier to build functors/units 02:37:32 How, all the flexibility? No macro expansion, no generation, no nested modules, etc. etc. 02:38:08 you can perform all the macro expansion and generation within the config language 02:38:47 nested modules are orthogonal - just having a syntactic macro system does not guaranteed nested modules, and you could provide nested modules within a config system 02:39:13 naturally the nested modules would not allow static analysis, you'd have to expand them first 02:42:29 What is the scope of a module in Chez-type systems anyhow? 02:44:53 well, something like gauche's module system is basically syntactic (you can expand into a module), but only top-level modules are allowed 02:46:08 i believe in that case the scope is the interaction-environment 02:46:50 Sure. 02:46:54 that's how common-scheme worked in gauche, it extended the env with a `common-module' macro which expanded into a normal gauche module 02:47:30 It seems pointless, though, to have a non-top-level module declaration if its scope is just the current syntactic environment frame, unless it is an anonymous (and self-importing) module. 02:48:40 right, like i said, nested modules are orthogonal, and some syntactic systems don't have them 02:51:00 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 02:51:56 geckosenator [~sean@h-66-134-142-18.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:42 timj__ [~timj@e176193060.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:17 -!- IJP [~Ian@host86-185-165-237.range86-185.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:54:39 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:55:38 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176192250.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:56:09 i could add nested modules easily enough to chibi, but the question is how to handle them? 02:57:09 Right. I don't see that they make sense in a config system. 02:57:41 What really matters is whether import can be non-toplevel, and what that means. 02:58:03 i guess (let ((mod (module ...))) (import-local mod) ...) would be the syntax, where import-local takes a first-class value instead of a hierarchical module name 03:01:47 Depends on what you think (module ...) returns. It could return the module, or void, or just disappear. 03:03:35 interesting... arcfide's proposal allows (import ) to import the first-class module bound to identifier 03:04:17 but (import (car boxed-module)) doesn't evaluate the form, but instead refers to the global hierarchical name 03:04:22 that's really ugly 03:06:08 -!- geckosenator [~sean@h-66-134-142-18.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:06:15 +1 03:06:57 It seems weird to call a module system "syntactic" if it involves run-time objects. 03:07:04 geckosenator [~sean@h-66-134-142-18.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has joined #scheme 03:07:38 really, in any system top-level modules and nested modules are going to be different 03:08:10 but without hierarchical names, you could get away with making them look the same 03:09:32 i'd just as soon have add-on extensions like Riastradh's lexmod for when you really want nested module-like objects 03:12:12 Actually, I don't think arcfide's proposal does what you say it does. Module names are meaningful only in import statements, not in arbitrary Scheme expressions. 03:12:53 it does what i say 03:13:08 if you have some expression (let ((mod (module ...))) ...) 03:13:27 you have to access that module with (import mod) 03:13:45 if you have (let ((mod (list (module ...)))) ...) 03:14:24 you _can't_ access it with (car mod) because that would conflict with the global module (car mod) 03:14:47 you would first have to (let ((tmp (car mod))) (import tmp)) 03:16:11 by the way, have there been any noteworthy results lately out of wg[12]? 03:16:19 that's inevitable because he has only one import statement for both types of modules 03:16:33 klutometis: Not yet. 03:17:07 Yes, except that (let ((mod (module ...))) ...) binds mod to (void) in arcfide's proposal, *not* to the module. 03:17:31 incubot: vapourware is notworthy, too. 03:17:34 If you want something like arc thats not vapourware try out goo. 03:17:47 boo! 03:18:49 oh, i misread... so modules _aren't_ first-class objects 03:18:51 jcowan: thanks for the executive summary; i'm still heartened by the fact wg1's post-rate ~= 1/day. 03:21:14 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:34 *foof* needs to buy an external USB hard disk and a few sticks or RAM to bring to work... 03:25:27 In fact, I see no reason why MODULE in arcfide's proposal shouldn't be just a declaration, rather than an expression returning undefined value. 03:27:45 indeed 03:28:03 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #scheme 03:30:35 klutometis: You also have to allow for wiki pages, issues, and comments on issues to determine the raw posting rate. 03:30:40 It's bursty, of course. 03:35:55 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:38:53 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-111-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:39:56 jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:48:02 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:00:51 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 04:11:08 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:12:33 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 04:15:17 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 04:16:46 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 04:17:31 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 04:18:08 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #scheme 04:19:02 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 04:19:16 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:25:28 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:26:51 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 04:31:46 -!- toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:31:50 toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has joined #scheme 04:32:37 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #scheme 04:34:25 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 04:34:42 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:38:17 are (-[-{ and )-]-} equivalency innovations on r5rs? 04:38:28 more importantly, anyone know how to turn them off in chicken? 04:38:37 maybe i better ask in #chicken. 04:38:43 cluck 04:39:29 copumpkin: like chinese, there are too many subtle intonations of cluck than come through in irc. 04:39:35 rudybot: cluck 04:39:36 *offby1: cluck, I think what I'm looking for is a hook that runs when a frame is created where I can set frame-parameters contingent on the value of window-system. 04:40:02 offby1: oh, no; you had to displeasure me with me, too. ;) 04:40:18 rudybot: say hello to your daddy 04:40:18 *offby1: told the board who his daddy was and said he was a folk singer also 04:42:00 oh, beautiful! -no-parentheses-synonyms 04:42:06 i had a feeling those cats would come through 04:43:25 "First John called Mary a Republican, and then SHE insulted HIM." 04:45:39 klutometis: () and [] equivalence is part of R6RS, but it's pretty common in other Schemes. How to turn it off, if there is any way, is system-specific. 04:45:48 In Chicken, you mutate the system readtable. 04:46:02 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:47:48 jcowan: i see; indeed, it's all opaque after csi passes (parentheses-synonyms . #f) off to MAIN. 04:51:06 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:04 shofetim [~user@97-121-228-161.blng.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 04:58:13 -!- geckosenator [~sean@h-66-134-142-18.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:58 teurastaja [~samuel@modemcable224.15-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:59:01 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:09 -!- turbofail [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:21 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:37 jcowan: similarly, the pipe-notation for bizarre symbols doesn't seem to be covered in r5rs 7.1.1. 05:00:04 incubot: '(|{| . 2) 05:00:05 ({ . 2) 05:00:08 -!- teurastaja [~samuel@modemcable224.15-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 05:00:16 incubot: '({ . 2) 05:00:16 Error: invalid use of `.' 05:01:31 klutometis: Pipes are not standardized by R5 or R6 either. 05:01:34 THey may wind up in R7. 05:01:40 interesting 05:04:31 They are mostly useful if you allow both case-folding and case-preserving modules in the same system. 05:05:00 rudybot: later tell Riastradh it might be nice to have a pipe matched with another automatically in paredit.el; it's trivial with autopairs, but still. 05:05:01 minion: memo for Riastradh: klutometis told me to tell you: it might be nice to have a pipe matched with another automatically in paredit.el; it's trivial with autopairs, but still. 05:05:01 Remembered. I'll tell Riastradh when he/she/it next speaks. 05:07:36 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:08:14 minion: memo for minion: recursion: see recursion. 05:08:14 Buzz off. 05:08:20 *jcowan* laughs. 05:11:28 jcowan: i take it there's no way you can acquire and publish a list of google's special cases, is there? ;) 05:12:01 I no longer work at Google. But what "special cases" do you mean? 05:12:59 these, i suppose: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google's_hoaxes#Easter_eggs 05:13:16 including, inter alia, "recursion" 05:13:37 i guess the internet's busy beavers already ferretted them out, to mix a metaphor 05:13:52 s/tt/t/ 05:15:08 jcowan: #|...| might be better, it leaves | open for symbols as in SCSH 05:15:35 *jcowan* inserts the usual greatest-compatibility-with-the-greatest-number argument. 05:15:54 foof: that's an interesting idea, actually 05:15:59 seems more consistent, in any case 05:16:06 Anyhow, I'd be fine with |...| not being allowed to contain whitespace. 05:16:20 That was one of the reasons why the R6RS WG rejected it. 05:16:36 oh wait... darnit, that's the SRFI-30 syntax :/ 05:16:41 *foof* hates SRFI-30 05:17:49 jcowan: any scheme that supports |...| could add support for #|...| trivially 05:18:03 but we'd need something else because of SRFI-30 05:18:18 All lexical syntax is trivial, but existing codebases aren't. 05:18:41 "Code matters, implementations don't." --the ANSI C committee 05:19:12 I very, very rarely see |...| in code, but | and || are ubiquitous in SCSH. 05:22:46 does any scheme use #{...} ? 05:23:41 Yes; Scheme48 does. 05:25:16 It doesn't actually seem to *read* anything from it, but it uses it for #{Unspecific} and possibly other things that I've forgotten. 05:25:43 dang 05:26:23 #&|...| 05:26:56 Bowdlerized curse or reader syntax? You decide! 05:27:17 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:27:20 :) 05:28:28 rudybot: eval #{} 05:28:33 chandler: your scheme sandbox is ready 05:28:33 chandler: ; Value: #() 05:33:54 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.154.108] has left #scheme 05:34:15 HG` [~HG@85.8.89.174] has joined #scheme 05:37:03 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-48-20.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:39:35 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:44:13 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:48:53 lisppaste: url 05:48:53 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 05:49:28 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-152-232.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 05:50:20 klutometis pasted "Pipe patch for paredit" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/100261 05:51:50 minion: memo for Riastradh: here's a pipe-patch against the current paredit-beta: . it is mainly a duplication of the double-quote logic. 05:51:51 Remembered. I'll tell Riastradh when he/she/it next speaks. 05:55:45 he 05:55:50 oh 05:55:52 it's a bot :P 05:56:40 Riastradh is a bot? Not surprising. 05:58:26 any wagers on whether Riastradh accepts the patch? 05:58:43 i've never successfully gotten him to apply a patch; we'll see. 06:25:14 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:33:05 untouchable [~untouchab@pool-141-154-53-242.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:35:53 *sladegen* votes for against. 06:38:43 incubot: what do you think about adding an amendment to U.S. cunstitution granting the right to change vote after elections, an ultimate freedom! 06:38:47 you are correct; I should indeed have invoked my Fourth (or Sixth) Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination, and I hate myself for not having thought of that. 06:40:03 considering it doesn't matter whether one votes left or right it just may make sense. 06:41:24 Isn't that the reason why it makes no sense? 06:41:25 oh, got a good name for it. a statistical equilibrium amendment. 06:42:22 yes, exactly it makes perfect sense in current situation making no sense. as soon as situation stops not making sense the amendment could be repealed. 06:42:26 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.56.6] has joined #scheme 06:43:31 Well, I'm all for dadaist amendments. Absurdity doesn't seem to be a detriment in politics. 06:44:32 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.201] has joined #scheme 06:46:30 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 06:46:49 but that's only because you are looking at it from intellectually rational perspective. from the mainstream perspective politics is very conventional. so such dadaist proposition could actual better communicate the situation, rather than "eye glazing chomskists" monologues. 06:46:59 *sladegen* stops spamming. 06:51:33 it may be a sort of following the logic to its ad absurdum proof. 06:55:35 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:29 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 07:00:54 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 07:04:15 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:13 geckosenator 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timeout: 265 seconds] 12:55:39 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:57:17 neilv [~user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 13:00:30 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 13:12:37 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-254-202.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:15:23 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:20:30 sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:22:43 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-111-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:23:19 sepisultrum [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has joined #scheme 13:25:00 Hi. I'm looking for a scheme implementation that can do UDP sockets and that can compile small binaries. Any ideas? 13:27:39 sepisultrum: you can embed tinyscheme or use chicken, gambit, ... 13:28:02 depending on your definition of 'small' 13:32:00 C-Keen: ok, I think I'll try chicken 13:32:01 thanks 13:33:15 sepisultrum: there's also #chicken for chicken-specific questions. 13:35:00 BerndBauer [~bernd@d91-130-24-79.cust.tele2.at] has joined #scheme 13:35:33 -!- BerndBauer [~bernd@d91-130-24-79.cust.tele2.at] has left #scheme 13:46:13 IJP [~Ian@host86-183-36-169.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 13:47:42 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:48:01 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:49:23 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@59.233.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:52:30 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:16 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:56:41 vika23 [~mika@122.177.215.125] has joined #scheme 14:06:00 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 14:15:39 BerndBauer [~bernd@d91-130-24-79.cust.tele2.at] has joined #scheme 14:16:36 -!- BerndBauer [~bernd@d91-130-24-79.cust.tele2.at] has left #scheme 14:24:31 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:26:26 sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:31:07 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@c-98-231-201-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:32:59 doc_who [~doc_who@c-98-231-201-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:33:24 -!- shofetim [~user@97-121-228-161.blng.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:37:06 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 14:37:09 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:37:09 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 14:38:11 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 14:44:22 xwl [~user@125.34.168.40] has joined #scheme 14:54:33 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #scheme 14:57:39 -!- vika23 [~mika@122.177.215.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:17 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-89.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:59:33 luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 15:00:05 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.201] has quit [Quit: off] 15:07:07 ejs [~eugen@85-238-113-136.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has joined #scheme 15:09:01 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 15:12:21 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:12:41 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:13:33 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 15:16:49 -!- karme [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-001-160.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:36 incubot: it's the world's tiniest open-source violin. 15:17:39 the bit about the violin, you mean? 15:17:55 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 15:18:03 it's gigabytes, GIGABYTES, man! 15:19:05 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.56.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:32 asarch [~asarch@187.171.13.15] has joined #scheme 15:33:25 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-152-232.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:46 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 15:38:14 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:25 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-152-232.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 15:39:38 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@router1.hotdesktop.biz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:39:58 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 15:49:02 alaricsp [~alaric@router1.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 15:53:14 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.89.174] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:59:46 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:02:16 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 16:04:11 incubot: roaring virile fire 16:04:14 foreskin is a whole, virile language of sensitivity non-pareil 16:06:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:10:57 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 16:12:19 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:31 -!- sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:05 alvatar [~alvatar@5.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:15:15 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:57 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:23:13 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:37 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@5.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:24:49 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 16:26:20 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 16:27:35 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 16:38:45 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:16 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:23 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:34 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has left #scheme 16:47:20 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:47:56 does scheme support some kind of user defined polymorphism? 16:51:59 you could write a macro to do that 16:53:03 there are various object systems in scheme dialects that support that 16:55:50 -!- newbie008 [~8fa6e23a@gateway/web/freenode/x-bfpyfhbqcgvqpavz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:00:28 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 17:01:37 -!- ejs [~eugen@85-238-113-136.wifi.tenet.od.ua] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:07:27 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:07:51 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 17:09:16 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 17:09:59 Dawgmatix [~dman@cpe-69-203-78-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:11:37 jsj [johan@devio.us] has joined #scheme 17:15:09 HG` [~HG@85.8.72.224] has joined #scheme 17:19:48 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:22 wingo [~wingo@11.Red-79-151-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:30:26 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:31:39 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.72.224] has quit [Quit: HG`] 17:31:40 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:31:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 17:33:22 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@c-98-231-201-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:01 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:35:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 17:41:08 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 17:43:15 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 17:48:48 arcfide [~arcfide@ppp-70-246-145-12.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 17:49:46 -!- neilv [~user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:30 foof: pong (any connection between my times and the local angle of the sun are coincidental...) 17:54:54 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 17:55:08 good evening, sir barzilay 17:56:28 Hey wingo, how's Guile coming along? 17:56:47 heya arcfide 17:56:57 we'll probably have another prerelease before 2.0 17:57:09 the novelty is some preliminary support for r6rs 17:57:56 Heh, cool. 17:59:07 the pleasant thing is that it's integrated with guile-modules 17:59:44 so one may use guile modules from r6rs modules, and vice versa 17:59:49 they share a namespace. 18:00:46 Well that's a good thing. Do you have some documentation on how you did this? 18:01:15 wingo: Will I be able to expand into R6RS library forms? :-) *hopeful look* 18:01:28 yep :) 18:01:33 wingo: Good *morning*... 18:01:43 `library', `import', and `export' are just macros 18:02:01 er 18:02:06 library and import i mean 18:02:23 Great news. 18:02:35 wingo: Good work. :-D 18:03:13 the initial docs are at http://hydra.nixos.org/build/415586/download/2/guile.html/R6RS-Libraries.html#R6RS-Libraries 18:03:13 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/24x52de 18:03:19 but they are slightly incorrect; 18:03:30 we don't do implicit phasing, we do no phasing whatsoever :P 18:03:44 Heh, um, that's going to cause a bit of trouble, isn't it? 18:03:54 so even if an imported library is not referenced at runtime, it's still imported 18:04:11 no, they are all available at all phases; it is permissible afaik 18:04:29 Ah, okay. 18:04:38 Well, that's not quite the same as having no phases. 18:05:10 true, though dybvig and ghuloum are at pains to say that they do phasing 18:05:33 (sp? on aziz's surname, i always have to look it up :P) 18:05:37 Well, they are comparing to the explicit phasing model, so they have to talk about phases. 18:05:45 I don't know how to get it right either. 18:06:12 It's just a little more of a shotgun approach to make it available in all phases. 18:06:17 yep 18:07:22 If you would, it would be beneficial to me and the Working Groups if you would write up a bit of an analysis on how you linked this in with the existing system and how difficult it was to implement the syntacitc R6RS library form in the way you did. 18:07:23 there are a few incompatibilities; some intentional, some not. 18:08:02 i am working on a blogpost about it 18:08:04 You can feel free to email it to me and I'll make sure it gets logged. 18:10:03 how do I expand symbols in a quoted list? say I have this '("gnah" symbol1 "argl" symbol2) and I want that the symbols are replaed by their values, how do I do that? 18:10:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:10:11 Great, if you can email me when you're done writing it that would be great. 18:10:32 virl: use quasiquote? 18:10:33 virl: 'symbol1 has a value of just that, what do you mean? 18:12:35 (of course, as arcfide pointed out, unlike in CL, a symbol has just itself as a value) 18:13:53 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:14:43 How's it going Rotty? 18:15:02 busy with university stuff, mostly :-/ 18:15:09 Fun fun. 18:15:17 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@router1.hotdesktop.biz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:08 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 18:18:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:19:06 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:20:06 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 18:22:42 -!- arcfide [~arcfide@ppp-70-246-145-12.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:54 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:23:40 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:31 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 18:29:05 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:51 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-89.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:30:05 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:33:27 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:12 alvatar [~alvatar@40.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 18:34:28 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:35:03 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:15 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 18:36:08 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 18:39:14 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:40:34 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-38-34.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:42:30 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:47:21 choas [~lars@p5B0DBFF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:47:49 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 18:48:58 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:49:08 PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #scheme 18:49:23 rudybot: eval (display ((lambda (x) (+ x 1)) 9)) 18:49:25 PiRSquared17: your sandbox is ready 18:49:25 PiRSquared17: ; stdout: "10" 18:50:21 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:34 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:52:41 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:53:34 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ros3] 18:55:42 rudybot: eval (display "0") (display "1") 18:55:42 PiRSquared17: ; stdout: "01" 18:56:11 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:57:30 -!- cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Quit: Vision[0.9.7-H-090423]: i've been blurred!] 19:00:38 rudybot: eval 19:04:11 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:05:11 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.49] has joined #scheme 19:07:20 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:15:28 -!- xwl [~user@125.34.168.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:09 rudybot: qwertyuiop 19:16:09 PiRSquared17: qwertyuiop! 19:16:16 rudybot: qwertyuiopasdfghjkl 19:16:16 PiRSquared17: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 19:16:24 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:00 ros3 [~roselynro@99.13.242.166] has joined #scheme 19:22:11 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:23:14 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:25:32 cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 19:25:54 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:27 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.49] has joined #scheme 19:31:28 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@40.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:34:17 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5BD38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:42:08 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:42:23 -!- PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:44:57 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Quit: the old ways are lost] 19:45:26 saccade [~saccade@2002:125d:34f:4:21e:c2ff:fe1b:2fcf] has joined #scheme 19:47:46 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:48:34 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 19:52:39 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@static.77.8.networkiowa.com] has joined #scheme 19:53:41 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:57:03 PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:58:09 schmir [~schmir@p54A9074D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:59:45 rudybot: Look! An elephant for you! 19:59:45 PiRSquared17: it's like the "Elephant Crystal" hanging in my kitchen window: it's supposed to keep away elephants. It must be working, since I never see any elephants in my back yard. 20:00:40 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has left #scheme 20:01:49 *Daemmerung* wants an elephant, too 20:02:03 Where's my elephant?! I want my elephant!! 20:02:12 O_ELEPHANTS 20:02:41 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A9074D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:03:20 ENOPACHYDERM 20:03:33 | O_RDONLY 20:03:36 elephant pipe 20:03:48 MetaEntity [~4efbed6d@gateway/web/freenode/x-shiupwokwbqeueql] has joined #scheme 20:03:57 hello 20:04:27 I have a question for the scheme community, may I know why the R6Rs has not been well accepted by the implementors? 20:05:00 *wingo* mumbles something about questions to irc and sampling bias :) 20:05:01 Please don't overwrite my elephant! 20:05:37 MetaEntity: it's big & complicated & fairly static 20:05:43 many parts of it are good tho. 20:06:00 Of the elephant, or R6RS? 20:06:08 yes. yes. 20:06:41 big & complicated & fairly static, I don't understand you arguments? 20:06:53 The elephant is big & complicated & fairly static. R6RS is is big & complicated & fairly static too. 20:07:13 what is big? R6RS is only some kb length 20:07:24 The elephant is big 20:07:29 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:07:38 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@99.13.242.166] has quit [Quit: ros3] 20:07:49 complicated => it brings portability and a lot of well thought constructs 20:07:56 static, why? 20:08:23 ah, i see you have misstated your question! 20:08:29 indeed 20:08:30 It doesn't change? 20:08:46 you meant to ask if anyone was interested in getting into an argument about r6rs! 20:09:02 *Daemmerung* is still upset about the UNFAIRNESS of not having an elephant in his back yard 20:09:11 I mean if I want a hashtable in a R6Rs implementation I only need to know make-*-hashtable 20:09:35 Daemmerung: You have an elephant on your Scheme book http://www.cs.unm.edu/~joel/cs257/TheLittleSchemer-Cover.jpg 20:09:41 while it is always different with non R6RS implementations 20:10:01 MetaEntity: variety is the spice of life! 20:10:03 I mean for me it is not complexity, but easiness 20:10:08 Usenet is that-a-way 20:10:19 2008 has come and gone 20:10:35 damn, I'm late for a lot of things 20:11:00 *wingo* too 20:11:30 yes but I would prefer to memorize one time something rather than thousands of time, to keep this precious time for taste of the variety of the REAL life spices 20:11:33 Daemmerung: What about Usenet? 20:11:58 hehe. are you saying that spices are the spices of life 20:12:12 Spices are the elephants of life. 20:12:20 wingo I am interested in your "too static" argument 20:12:26 last night it was explained to me that regulations help us regulate things. Most enlightening. 20:12:33 rudybot: Look! An elephant for you! 20:12:33 PiRSquared17: The elephant is big 20:12:40 Told you! 20:12:43 and static 20:12:57 and complicated 20:13:12 and coming soon to a back yard near you!! 20:13:13 don't think I am a r6rs fan, I am pretty new with scheme, but when I tested different implementations, I have been surprised people didn't like r6rs 20:13:16 MetaEntity: for example. the `library' form may only be at top level. it may not be generated by a macro. there are no first class modules. there is no portable module introspection. the top level is a mess. &c! 20:14:09 wingo, what about define? 20:14:18 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 20:14:26 what about what about define 20:14:26 I mean library or define what is the different in term of staticity 20:14:40 geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 20:14:49 define may be generated by a macro and may occur lexically nested. 20:14:57 rudybot: eval (define (square x) (* x x)) (display (square 25)) 20:14:58 PiRSquared17: ; stdout: "625" 20:16:17 (define (define a 2)) doesn't work 20:16:24 it is static too in some way 20:16:37 This is a functional language 20:16:48 Not procedural or OO 20:17:55 That's not a hugely meaningful statement, PiRSquared17. It's entirely possible to write Scheme code in the procedural style, and not much more difficult to implement an object system and write in the OO (by which you probably mean inheritance+polymorphism) style. 20:18:01 MetaEntity: if you really want portability, choose an implementation :) 20:18:15 ros3 [~roselynro@99.13.242.166] has joined #scheme 20:18:26 personally I think it is a pitty you cannot load your files on all scheme implementations the same way with non r6rs implentations 20:18:31 gnomon: What you're saying is true 20:18:37 Thank you. I know. 20:18:40 I mean it is the basis to be able to split sources in different files 20:19:13 MetaEntity: it's Turing-complete, so it can do anything :p 20:19:32 "computable" 20:19:34 ahah :) 20:20:11 it is likewise a pity that i cannot compile my scheme code with g++ 20:20:33 wingo you can and in a portable way :) 20:20:35 Write a C++ compiler in Scheme. 20:20:49 since you can create your own C++ generator in r6rs scheme :) 20:21:02 ... 20:21:20 now, a few years ago i was quite irritated at the denizens of #scheme. 20:21:27 wingo: I am training now by doing it in C, it works in C++ too ^^ 20:21:29 i thought you all snarky and knowitall 20:21:47 now i see that it is frustrating to answer the same questions 500 times :) 20:22:05 ok anyway it is a kind of troll, I wanted to know, it is all, thanks :) 20:22:12 -!- MetaEntity [~4efbed6d@gateway/web/freenode/x-shiupwokwbqeueql] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:22:12 and while i hope i don't become too snarky, it's tempting :) 20:22:38 Am I the troll? 20:22:42 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:23:01 rudybot: Look! An elephant for you! 20:23:01 PiRSquared17: You have an elephant on your Scheme book http://www.cs.unm.edu/~joel/cs257/TheLittleSchemer-Cover.jpg 20:23:45 rudybot: Look! An elephant for you! 20:23:45 PiRSquared17: dog elephant frito-lay 20:23:51 ??? 20:25:13 rudybot: Look! A PiRSquared17 for you 20:25:14 PiRSquared17: yep, the date gets stuffed up for me on rcirc too 20:25:16 somebody was trying an Alpha Bravo Charlie and couldn't recall the rest of the sequence 20:26:00 -!- saccade [~saccade@2002:125d:34f:4:21e:c2ff:fe1b:2fcf] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:26:55 rudybot: Look! A PiRSquared17 for you! 20:26:55 PiRSquared17: johnsu01, sorry for the delay. I don't find any log files, but I'm going to paste the postfix .cf files. I forgot to say that I'm trying to send the email through our bluehost.com account. Also, we have installed and want to use offlineumap. 20:26:56 saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:27:32 -!- kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 20:29:10 rudybot: may I know why the R6Rs has not been well accepted by the implementors? 20:29:11 PiRSquared17: See, this is why implementors should not be part of a language definition. 20:29:26 rudybot: may I know why the R6Rs has not been well accepted by the implementors? 20:29:26 PiRSquared17: I would have argued for some form of open-submission process where ad-hoc working groups could promulgate draft standards, attract implementors, and ultimately be commented on or ratified by a committee. 20:29:37 lol 20:30:45 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:32:02 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:33:48 samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 20:36:03 rudybot: may I know why the R6Rs has not been well accepted by the implementors? 20:36:03 PiRSquared17: an important question would be : what do scheme implementors want scheme to be good for ? 20:36:18 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e02b45e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 20:36:40 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5e02b45e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 20:40:51 -!- PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #scheme 20:41:53 QWERTY123 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #scheme 20:42:13 I've got a question: Why is there an elephant in my code? 20:43:15 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.171.13.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43:39 Lectus [~Frederico@189.105.26.250] has joined #scheme 20:47:28 -!- saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:55 QWERTY123, likely because the elephant crystal in your kitchen window either failed or is absent. 20:50:26 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:51:28 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-253.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:51:52 My code: (define (elephant elephants) (if (= 0 elephants) 1 (* (elephant (- elephants 1)) elephants))) (display (elephant 3)) 20:52:05 -!- geckosenator [~sean@adsl-71-132-217-215.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:05 rudybot: eval (define (elephant elephants) (if (= 0 elephants) 1 (* (elephant (- elephants 1)) elephants))) (display (elephant 3)) 20:52:08 QWERTY123: your sandbox is ready 20:52:08 QWERTY123: ; stdout: "6" 20:52:39 Someone, help me! 20:52:52 "6" elephants! 20:53:01 -!- QWERTY123 is now known as PiRSquared17 20:53:36 3 * 2 * 1 = 6 20:54:02 saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THIRTY-EIGHT.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 20:54:12 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 20:54:19 Aka elephanctorial 20:54:27 3 * 2 * 1 * elephant = 6elephant 20:54:53 mario-goulart: lol 20:54:54 where do you get * elephant from 20:55:07 is this a joke or are you serious 20:55:27 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:56:56 jonrafkind: I got the elephant from http://www.cs.unm.edu/~joel/cs257/TheLittleSchemer-Cover.jpg 20:57:37 kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:57:37 the function you just evaluated? 20:57:46 Joke 20:58:03 not serious 20:58:24 the internet is a serious place for serious people doing serious work 20:58:29 incubot: im compeltely serious!!! 20:58:32 yes, thats true. its not compeltely arbitrary 20:59:05 Elefunctors. Hmmm. 20:59:10 incubot: Elephant 20:59:13 what's elephant? 20:59:31 incubot: http://enwp.org/Elephant 20:59:34 annotated #49777 with "iterative" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/49777#1 21:00:43 incubot: Look! An elephant for you! 21:00:46 "What an elephant was doing in my pajamas I'll never know." 21:00:47 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:01:00 rudybot: Look! An elephant for you! 21:01:00 PiRSquared17: And land upon the Great Elephant 21:01:22 -!- petey_ [~petey@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:05:15 rudybot: Look! An elephant for you! 21:05:16 PiRSquared17: here's the elephant version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R25Eflr0oJ8 21:05:22 incubot: Look! An elephant for you! 21:05:25 "Elephant garlic" is actually a variety of leeks, according to /The Joy of Cooking/ (which is my cooking Bible) 21:06:14 incubot: Does the elephant garlic serve the same purpose as the elephant crystal? 21:06:17 only hebrew-ism is that in hebrew an "elephant" would be male by default, and "ant" a female. 21:06:32 rudybot: Does the elephant garlic serve the same purpose as the elephant crystal? 21:06:33 PiRSquared17: QWERTY123, likely because the elephant crystal in your kitchen window either failed or is absent. 21:06:42 rudybot: Does the elephant garlic serve the same purpose as the elephant crystal? 21:06:43 PiRSquared17: good to see its all so crystal clear though.... 21:06:54 -!- PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #scheme 21:07:45 PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:10:13 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:54 sladegen 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now, but it seems we need another prerel... 22:31:21 it's been a year of these monthly releases, and it's getting tiring :P 22:31:38 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 22:32:00 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:32:15 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:16 *Leonidas* is planning to do some work with guile this week, so using 1.9.x is definitely better than 2.x :) 22:32:20 -!- jsj [johan@devio.us] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:34:09 turbofail [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:35:47 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:50 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:36:03 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-63-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:36 -!- fradgers- 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