00:00:46 -!- ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:00:59 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ac735ac.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 00:01:23 Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 00:04:25 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:34 haole: could you at least paste an example of what you are doing? 00:05:54 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:07:15 PiRSquared17: People do not stay connected to IRC constantly. Many times they will ask a question and then leave their computer for one reason or another. When haole feels like responding, he or she certainly will. 00:07:20 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 00:09:03 alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has joined #scheme 00:09:25 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:11:17 haole: I'm pretty sure you wrote something like "(define (f x) (if (cond-on-x x) (begin (f (- x 1)) (print x)) 42))" instead of "(define (f x) (if (cond-on-x x) (begin (print x) (f (- x 1))) 42))" 00:12:10 In all fairness he didi say 'brb' 00:13:07 should have been bbl 00:13:36 Time is relative. 00:13:59 Maybe he's in a shuttle flying at the speed of light. 00:18:40 maybe his cat needs his belly rubbed 00:19:48 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-201.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:21:19 Maybe he got up for a minute and then got distracted by something else entirely. Point being, incessantly directing messages at him isn't going to make him come back any sooner. 00:21:38 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 00:21:47 ooh I like the imaginary situations being made up about hoale. chandler can you tell another?? 00:22:06 maybe hes skiing on a mountain, with chuck berry! 00:23:50 Maybe he/she is stuck in a rip in the spacetime continuum 00:24:13 Or in a parallel universe 00:24:37 maybe you are already in a parallel universe and you are him in that universe 00:24:38 chandler: it might if his client beeps or makes some audible cue when messages include his nick 00:25:00 *foof* piped all of his messages through say(1) at one point 00:25:06 Fair enough. 00:25:24 the internet is serious business 00:25:32 that is what I meant to do when I wrote "haole" 00:25:50 -!- PiRSquared17 is now known as ELIZABOT 00:27:05 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.126] has joined #scheme 00:27:56 This Racket situation is interesting; I wonder how PLT / the Racket crew considers the role of R7RS and WG2, and how it relates to Racket. 00:30:34 It will be trivial for PLT to provide a language for WG2. Whether they actually make use of it, or ignore it like R6RS, is an interesting question. 00:30:57 what do you mean "ignore it like r6rs" ? 00:32:18 -!- ELIZABOT is now known as PiRSquared17 00:32:23 The R6RS language can't interact with native PLT modules, and has no development environment of any kind. 00:33:08 you can use r6rs in drscheme 00:33:39 -!- PiRSquared17 is now known as ELIZA 00:33:44 -!- ELIZA is now known as ELIZABOT 00:33:53 Oh? I didn't realize that, I only use mzscheme. 00:34:22 mmmk 00:37:44 pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 00:41:09 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:22 -!- ELIZABOT is now known as PiRSquared17 00:44:32 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:13 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 00:46:17 k0rn [~k0rn@38-247.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:47:46 pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #scheme 00:50:14 -!- PiRSquared17 is now known as PiRSquared17Bot 00:53:18 -!- PiRSquared17Bot is now known as PiRSquared17 00:56:45 -!- geckosenator [~sean@dsl-63-249-91-224.dhcp.cruzio.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:03:26 haole is sleeping? 01:05:39 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 01:06:26 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:07:01 *sladegen* electricutes PiRSquared17 and smacks him with an eel for good measure. 01:07:15 -!- PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #scheme 01:07:20 PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #scheme 01:11:34 PiRSquared17, sorry, girlfriend called :D 01:12:41 lol 01:12:47 Axioplase, no, i did it the second way... i'm gonna make my test case now 01:12:50 PiRSquared17, almost there :D 01:13:34 PiRSquared17, there! i got it... gonna pastebin 01:14:30 (So the real reason turned out to be better than most of those hypothesized.) 01:14:47 :) 01:15:03 girlfriends are mean when they get ignored... sorry about that :) 01:15:14 http://paste.lisp.org/display/99323 01:15:19 haole: PiRSquared17 is pretty mean when ignore too, it seems 01:15:30 this code only prints the numbers only at the end of the execution 01:15:42 my program is cpu intensive and i want to print some milestones to the user 01:15:54 bremner, lol 01:16:49 haole: I think what's going on: your operating system is buffering the output 01:16:58 so put a call to (newline) right after the (display ...) 01:17:07 offby1, ok, gonna try 01:17:10 that will probably cause the buffer to "flush" -- i.e., get printed immediatley 01:17:12 immediately 01:17:12 i'm under gentoo linux, btw 01:17:26 happens everywhere. 01:17:39 offby1, you were right... that did it! 01:17:42 I'm also guessing it prints all the numbers in a single big line 01:17:43 thanks a lot 01:17:54 yeah, you are right about that too 01:18:01 rudybot: eval (define (test-print-rec number) (if (equal? number 0) number (begin (display number) (sleep 1) (test-print-rec (- number 1))))) 01:18:16 rudybot: eval (test-print-rec 20) 01:18:20 he'll time out 01:18:26 *offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 01:18:29 *nod 01:18:30 http://codepad.org/8qCGDKW8 01:18:36 rudybot: eval (define (test-print-rec number) (if (equal? number 0) number (begin (display number) (test-print-rec (- number 1))))) 01:18:37 *offby1: ; stdout: "20191817161514131211" 01:18:39 heh 01:18:46 rudybot: eval (test-print-rec 20) 01:18:46 *offby1: ; Value: 0 01:18:47 *offby1: ; stdout: "2019181716151413121110987654321" 01:19:29 rudybot:e 01:19:29 PiRSquared17: is it necessary to do a regex to have (split-sequence '(a b c d e) 'c) -> ((a b) (d e)) ? 01:19:31 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@120.152.74.79] has joined #scheme 01:19:44 rudybot: naw, don't be stupid, you stupid bot. 01:19:44 *offby1: naw 01:20:07 rudybot: eval (display "Hello world!") 01:20:09 PiRSquared17: your sandbox is ready 01:20:10 PiRSquared17: ; stdout: "Hello world!" 01:20:11 gaah. I hate codepad. 01:20:55 rudybot: be wery, wery stupid. 01:20:55 B/C it evals? 01:20:56 sladegen: But why would Emacs do the complicated thing when the stupid thing is easier? 01:21:09 I guess it's not the worst. But I wish it would _display_ the raw code, rather than _download_ it 01:21:23 sladegen: are you hunting dumb wabbits? 01:21:23 it ain't easy beaing stupid. 01:21:43 i'm wabbiting smart hunters. 01:21:45 my cat makes it look easy 01:23:08 offby1: It makes up for that by evaluating the code 01:27:52 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:57 using mzscheme v371? 01:33:02 which is like two years old by now? 01:35:11 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-38-34.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:35:39 -!- lisptastic [~user@76.177.227.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:50 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has left #scheme 01:40:52 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@120.152.74.79] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 01:42:24 -!- k0rn [~k0rn@38-247.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:47:52 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@35-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:51:16 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:42 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-38-34.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 01:52:47 -!- haole [~ivan@187.23.86.52] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 01:57:38 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:58:59 -!- Vonunov is now known as l-l 01:59:02 -!- l-l is now known as Vonunov 02:05:33 -!- PiRSquared17 is now known as HELLOWORLD 02:05:37 -!- HELLOWORLD is now known as HELLO_WORLD 02:05:55 -!- HELLO_WORLD is now known as PiRSquared17 02:06:01 - 02:06:43 + 02:06:59 * 02:08:51 http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth's_up-arrow_notation 02:10:22 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF |^0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF 02:11:04 | is the arrow 02:11:47 :) 02:12:13 I had heard of it 02:12:18 TeX ftw 02:12:30 LaTeX ftw 02:13:38 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 02:14:44 -!- Arelius [~user@208.80.117.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:06 offby1: Aug 2007; almost three years. 02:17:49 my context is gone. 02:17:53 What's that in response to? 02:17:57 oh, v372 02:17:58 codepad.org 02:18:03 371. 02:18:13 PLT 02:18:31 betcha that version has _lots_ of juicy sandbox bugs ... I'm just sayin' ... 02:19:05 foof: You can also use r6rs from mzscheme like any other module, the only problem in interacting with plt code is with mutable vs immutable pairs. 02:19:13 offby1: Who uses it? 02:19:28 (I can't even remember if the sandbox library dates so far back.) 02:19:33 eli: who uses what -- vc371? Codepad.org? 02:19:42 What's that? 02:19:49 http://codepad.org 02:19:58 paste site that runs your code for you. 02:20:21 v371 > nothing 02:20:37 Ah, it's 372. 02:20:51 Dec 2007. 02:21:03 Besides, there is an option to not execute 02:21:42 eli: that's a pretty big problem though 02:22:00 Ah, now I remember -- it's that silly thing that runs interpreters in a chroot jail. 02:22:01 v372 > nothing ? 02:22:29 offby1: Therefore no need to worry about any sandboxing issues -- it's done at the os level. 02:22:48 foof: There's no sane way around that. 02:23:45 MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:23:47 foof: It could be made a little more convenient if immutable lists were treated as mutable lists for the m* functions -- but that would be inconvenient too, only moreso on one side. 02:23:52 Well, you could allow car/cdr to work on both mutable and immutable pairs (chibi does this). 02:24:11 No, it's the other way -- you'd need to make mcar mcdr work on both. 02:24:24 I mean make both work on both. 02:24:51 You *can't* have car and cdr (the immutable ones) work on both. 02:24:53 i.e. the only distinction that is ever made is when you use set-c[ad]r! 02:25:06 You miss the guarantee that immutable pairs give you in the first place. 02:25:32 The guarantee is in the values, not the operations. 02:26:15 In any case, my personal opinion (and that's after I've tried to materialize some ideas about how to make things a little easier) is that I'm absolutely tired of schemers claiming that functional == better, and how it would be great to have immutable pairs, and blah blah blah, without actually doing anything about it. 02:26:29 lol 02:26:40 It's like every time I see that damn chapter in SICP I feel like I'm going to throw up. 02:26:54 If PLT is already using the car/cdr operations to perform type inference and make guarantees about the values, that's a different story. 02:27:10 Having gone through teaching a 6.001 class at exactly that time, I can say that newbies tend to puke too. 02:27:40 But if I ever add such optimizations to chibi I'll perform the analysis at the value level, so car/cdr are free to continue working on both mutable and immutable pairs. 02:28:08 I don't know what optimizations you're talking about. 02:28:27 Tell me more... 02:28:32 -!- PiRSquared17 is now known as ELIZABOT 02:28:34 Right now, I can do (and (list? l) (> (length l) 5) (list-ref l 3)) 02:28:36 Well, not necessarily optimizations, but guarantees. 02:28:56 If all of these worked on mutable lists, this code works only without threads. 02:29:17 Lisp/Scheme is Turing-complete 02:29:23 It can do anything 02:29:30 -!- ELIZABOT is now known as PiRSquared17 02:29:44 Right, so in my approach it would become (and (immutable-list? l) ...) 02:29:47 rudybot: look! A new friend for you. 02:29:48 *offby1: Friend says he's managed to crash the JVM. 02:30:13 For the case where you want to guarantee the list is immutable. 02:30:57 foof: In this case you shouldn't try to claim that PLT is somehow missing on some great way to make things work -- because it sounds like you're exactly at pre-v4 PLT. 02:39:48 I'd have to think about this more. I generally associate immutable pairs with things like literals, dotted tails from applications and other things you don't want to be able to mutate. 02:40:15 Making pairs an inherently thread-safe data structure seems odd to me. 02:42:46 rudybot: Hello world! 02:42:47 PiRSquared17: the functional programming world said, "we'll write a combinator that hides the state-passing from the programmer" 02:43:10 lol 02:45:15 hum, a state monad. 02:45:58 I hope that's a joke 02:46:02 *offby1* passes from Texas into Mississippi, hidden in a monad 02:46:25 foof: Yes, that was *exactly* the point of the switch; it's not that some values happen to be conveniently represented as immutable lists, it's that immutable lists are themselves a very useful type -- more useful than mutable ones. 02:46:57 *offby1* hasn't missed mutable conses at all 02:47:39 *eli* walked a long way from a "who needs this box thing when you have cons" place 02:51:35 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-48-79.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:52:36 timj__ [~timj@e176193158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:52:41 It's more of a mindset issue. Scheme is not purely functional, therefore whenever you're working with data structures that may be shared between multiple threads, you need to use caution (or mutexes). 02:53:22 So I tend to think of thread-safe data-structures as expensive. 02:54:09 Immutable pairs don't change this, but draws the line differently, increasing the chance that you're working with data structures which don't need mutexes. 02:54:39 And then you've got a situation where some things are cheap to share between threads, and some are expensive. 02:55:15 Well, if you have immutable data *by default*, then you don't need expensive locking facilities (or risk bugs), it's just safe. 02:55:42 And for the more rare cases where you prefer mutation, you can still have it, of course. (You don't want to hear my opinion on Haskell.) 02:55:47 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176193175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:56:18 Right, that's what I said, some things are cheap, some expensive. 02:56:24 -!- MononcQc [~Ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:56:55 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@209.30.32.248] has joined #scheme 02:57:21 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@209.30.32.248] has quit [Client Quit] 02:59:59 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:02:28 geckosenator [~sean@dsl-63-249-91-224.dhcp.cruzio.com] has joined #scheme 03:03:18 I'm trying to figure out a good way to organize nested libraries in the scheme48 module system, assuming that's even a good idea... it seems tricky 03:03:57 from what I've seen, the built in modules are flat rather than hierarchical 03:04:20 is anyone familiar? 03:04:24 gweiqi: it's tricky because the modules are first-class values in the config language 03:04:35 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-201.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:06:17 foof: so how do library-writers normally organize their modules, and in what form do they distribute/expose it to users? 03:07:12 they choose a name and hope it's unique 03:07:26 since the number of scheme48 developers is quite small, this is usually the case ;) 03:09:53 foof: haha, i see... so the module system doesn't have a good way to cope with the name clashing? 03:10:28 that seems a shame 03:17:10 -!- geckosenator [~sean@dsl-63-249-91-224.dhcp.cruzio.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:22:18 -!- PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:24:45 mprime [~d0668528@gateway/web/freenode/x-tpwcbtpkahlgpbsu] has joined #scheme 03:24:50 Daemmerung [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 03:25:07 is PLT's module system better suited for that? 03:25:39 plt lets you rename identifiers as you wish 03:26:32 jonrafkind: so does scheme48, he's talking about the module names, not the exported identifiers 03:27:07 plt modules are named by their filesystem path, so there aren't usually any name clashes 03:27:41 *sladegen* calls for immutable fs. 03:27:59 sladegen: that would make haskell I/O a lot easier! 03:28:09 *Daemmerung* declares `f' as immutable 03:28:59 immutable fs is not an entirely bad idea for solid state storage 03:29:49 *sladegen* wonders if expansion of universe is proof of its data structures being immutable and someone being to lazy to write gc. 03:33:03 "a lazy god is a smart god" 03:34:01 yeah, he is so lazy he don't want to exist.. heh. 03:40:47 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:15 Extodus [~tomreece@99-149-27-239.lightspeed.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:55:38 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 03:59:15 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:48 fabe [~fabe@p54A7E2D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 04:07:02 -!- Extodus [~tomreece@99-149-27-239.lightspeed.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Extodus] 04:07:22 Extodus [~tomreece@99-149-27-239.lightspeed.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:09:30 -!- Extodus [~tomreece@99-149-27-239.lightspeed.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 04:12:14 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:13:53 Sergio` [~positron@a95-95-189-14.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 04:13:57 -!- Sergio` [~positron@a95-95-189-14.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Changing host] 04:13:57 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 04:19:54 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4921.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #scheme 04:32:32 kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:45:48 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-222-57.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!] 04:45:53 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:47:00 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:02 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 04:54:23 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4921.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:57:44 pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.106] has joined #scheme 05:03:48 -!- pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:02 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:14:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 05:15:48 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:19:58 pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.106] has joined #scheme 05:31:52 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 05:32:45 -!- kg4qxk [~bohanlon@pool-173-48-104-141.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 05:37:34 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 05:39:22 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:13 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:45:14 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 05:52:30 -!- pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:58 somnium [~user@adsl-65-172-234.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 06:03:34 -!- mprime [~d0668528@gateway/web/freenode/x-tpwcbtpkahlgpbsu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:10:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 06:12:44 mathk [~mathk@83.158.190.46] has joined #scheme 06:32:46 -!- peddie [~peddie@adsl-76-254-70-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:20 peddie [~peddie@adsl-76-254-70-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 06:44:43 tessier__ [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #scheme 06:45:15 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.97] has joined #scheme 06:53:02 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 06:56:43 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 06:58:06 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:58:27 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:27 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:17:14 Peteris [~peteris_e@84.237.180.192] has joined #scheme 07:17:35 how appropriate would scheme be for a personal mathematical library? 07:18:05 compared with the alternatives C++, Python 07:18:19 it would be more appropriate for a public math lib ;) 07:18:30 ;) 07:18:53 what sorts of functions would go in it? 07:19:02 math stuff! 07:19:06 pretty much anything that I learn in university 07:19:13 atanh 07:19:14 that is computable 07:19:19 *foof* misses that all the time from R5RS 07:19:27 well, scheme might not be the best choice for big matrix math type stuff 07:19:31 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 07:19:39 because of speed or inconvenience? 07:19:43 speed 07:19:53 would Python stand a chance? 07:20:12 no, in both cases you would depend on an external library written in some sort of hand-optimized whatnot 07:20:22 no, the best python compilers still don't hold a candle to the better scheme compilers 07:20:37 such as, say, goto-BLAS or something 07:20:50 I know that there's numpy, which is regarded as good at this kind of thing 07:20:54 but if you find a scheme with a good FFI, then it's pretty easy to wrap a library 07:21:04 right, that's the thing, with python those wrappers already exist 07:21:45 numpy is lumpy - it's not written in python 07:21:48 oh, so I could, for example, write the matrix code in C ? 07:21:54 you could 07:21:58 or you could just use somebody else's 07:22:06 which will be guaranteed to be faster 07:22:26 but i'd say it's a decent exercise to write a simple gaussian eliminator 07:22:40 depends on what the goal is 07:22:59 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7E2D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:23:03 yes, the goal would also be partially to acquaint with the algorithms 07:23:24 if you're doing a linear algebra assignment you might want something that will go through all the steps of gaussian elimination so you can show your work without going through mindless tedium 07:23:53 yeah, i'd say scheme is a fine choice for that 07:24:22 ok, cool 07:33:16 mmc [~michal@cs27127162.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 07:37:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:42:00 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 07:42:34 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 07:43:41 stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 07:50:07 how do I take optional named parameters in function? 07:50:22 with predefined value if not specified 07:51:38 Aperculum: with the right SRFI? 07:52:06 "Optional positional and named parameters" 07:52:22 yeah, I read that but couldn't make heads or tails from it 07:52:39 use list-ref 07:52:44 Well, basically, you check wether your implementation has it :) 07:53:30 nope :( 07:53:37 well, that's unfortunate 07:54:53 perhaps use curry then... 07:56:01 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:01 incubot: smart alec says: god is dead... god is silent. 07:56:06 Alan, not Alec 07:56:25 turing to me, baby! 07:56:35 Aperculum: use your own environment in your function, and overwrite-it with given parameters if any? 07:59:41 Bonjour [~4e29e354@gateway/web/freenode/x-rcmwantzmsekgxhd] has joined #scheme 08:16:24 Axioplase pasted "optional hack." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99330 08:16:49 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:17:21 Aperculum: If you can't get your implementation to support SRFI89, you may try the above ugly, unsafe code 08:18:24 aren't srfis just libraries or some such that I can just add to my environment? 08:19:02 you can always try to port "portble" implementation to your scheme as a first hack. 08:20:13 or in this case just make all procedures take a list as arg and pass arguments as alists... 08:20:22 Aperculum: No SRFI's are rather specs that are suggested to implement to ensure portability of code that plays the game. 08:20:35 I see 08:21:46 or write your own OO system and make everything an object accepting messages as god intended it... 08:21:52 Aperculum: what implementation do you use? 08:21:55 *sladegen* rambles into the distance. 08:22:28 guile 08:22:37 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 08:23:05 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:23:16 let-optional... 08:23:36 first hit in info's index... 08:24:13 thanks 08:24:30 and it has srfi-88 (a precursor to 89...) 08:24:35 I'm still quite new so I'll have to study a bit more 08:24:48 Yeah. Guile is far from an implementation missing everything ^^ 08:24:53 I'll let you know how it goes 08:25:05 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.215.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:26:07 masm [~masm@bl15-135-186.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 08:34:07 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:38:40 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 08:39:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 08:44:16 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ac735ac.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 08:47:35 stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 08:58:11 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 09:06:17 forcer- [~forcer@g224120167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 09:08:09 -!- forcer- is now known as forcer 09:18:08 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.164.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:19:07 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:21:08 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 09:23:43 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:24:33 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:25:32 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 09:25:40 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:05 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:31:32 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 09:37:50 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 09:40:22 ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 09:44:05 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:45:15 -!- ros3 [~roselynro@70-36-146-118.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:54:15 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 09:54:25 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:56:07 Aperculum: regarding optional args: there's also the `let-optionals*' macro from Scheme 48. 09:57:28 also see the Guile manual (node "Optional Arguments") 09:58:28 (what to use depends on whether you want to write portable code, or being Guile-specific is ok) 09:59:48 -!- somnium [~user@adsl-65-172-234.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:09 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-171-185.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:03:28 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 10:06:27 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:29 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 10:30:41 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:31:20 Peteris: scheme makes worse choice for mathematics than common lisp. 10:32:09 As for difference between CL, C++ and Python, it depends on what you do exactly. 10:33:02 If you do symbolics, CL is better than any of them. 10:33:48 If you do heavy numerics, it depends on subtle issues, 10:33:49 though Python+C++ is a bit more preferred combination. 10:34:07 Esp. when you do FEM, CFD and similar things. 10:41:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:46:52 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 10:48:36 -!- incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:12 incubot [~incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 10:53:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #scheme 10:55:19 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:03:32 alvatar [~alvatar@33.232.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:06:08 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 11:12:57 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:28:48 HG` [~HG@xdslfd250.osnanet.de] 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[~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:24:20 pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.94] has joined #scheme 15:25:00 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:26:10 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:53 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:22 -!- pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:05 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 15:39:35 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:43:28 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:55:55 how can i create additional funcallable objects (which are not procedure?) in mit-scheme? (or alternatively in scheme48) 16:00:52 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:01:05 ecraven, lambda ? 16:01:17 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:01:17 pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.94] has joined #scheme 16:02:57 -!- pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:03:21 pencilk [~jk@222.178.152.94] has joined #scheme 16:05:27 jonrafkind: that does return #t to procedure? 16:07:14 im pretty sure it does 16:07:25 yea it does in mzscheme 16:09:11 ecraven: Why? 16:09:43 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:11:59 -!- Peteris [~peteris_e@84.237.180.192] has left #scheme 16:12:05 jonrafkind: so that does not do what i want :) 16:12:13 whats a funcallable object? 16:12:16 Daemmerung: i'd like to implement generic functions that are separate from procedures 16:12:36 Use a procedure. 16:12:48 i cannot store additional information with a (plain) procedure 16:13:06 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:15 oh I see what you mean. in plt you can make a struct callable, i dont know if other systems have that 16:13:27 jonrafkind: exactly, that kind of thing, but for mit-scheme or scheme48 16:15:07 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@33.232.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:15:29 -!- Bonjour [~4e29e354@gateway/web/freenode/x-rcmwantzmsekgxhd] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:15:31 ecraven: I remember seeing some generic-like stuff in scheme48's code 16:15:58 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has joined #scheme 16:16:02 ``Application hooks are objects that can be applied like procedures.'' --MIT/GNU scheme manual 9.0.1, section 12.5 16:17:04 (define-method &real-part ((z :recnum)) (recnum-real-part z)) 16:17:12 ^ from scheme/rts/recnum.scm 16:17:23 That defines real-part for recnum types 16:18:48 Doesn't seem to be documented though? 16:19:56 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 16:29:02 Peteris [~peteris_e@84.237.180.192] has joined #scheme 16:30:24 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:31 -!- xwl [~user@125.34.170.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:23 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 16:31:29 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 16:33:48 sloyd: perfect, thanks! 16:34:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:32 -!- Peteris [~peteris_e@84.237.180.192] has left #scheme 16:39:48 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:43:35 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:47:37 phao [~phao@189.107.224.66] has joined #scheme 16:50:47 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-19-75.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:52:59 -!- turbofail 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host closed the connection] 17:46:56 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:23 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:49:59 mathk [~mathk@83.158.190.46] has joined #scheme 17:55:30 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:34 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:03:23 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 18:07:42 saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-84-184.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 18:08:15 -!- Aperculum [~laurihak@unaffiliated/aperculum] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:10:41 Belaf [~campedel@194.209.131.192] has joined #scheme 18:10:44 -!- Belaf [~campedel@194.209.131.192] has left #scheme 18:15:32 Aperculum [~laurihak@unaffiliated/aperculum] has joined #scheme 18:16:00 alvatar [~alvatar@147.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 18:16:27 without hooks, I'd use a weak hash table to associate meta-information with procedures 18:18:43 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:19 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 18:21:02 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:21 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@147.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-253.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:26:47 Daemmerung: i've done that before, but i'd really like to keep it all in one place (i.e. with the procedure).. entities seem a good way to do that 18:29:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-253.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme 18:30:44 gives you a simpler gc/scoping story, yeah 18:32:11 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:32:33 HG` [~HG@dynj203.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 18:35:47 -!- mhoye [~mhoye@shell.off.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:38:25 Nshag 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[~eno@adsl-70-137-140-101.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:28:57 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-101.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:28:57 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 20:29:43 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@c-98-239-182-129.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:34:28 jonrafkind: you could also use a trick like this: http://github.com/rotty/spells/blob/master/spells/procedure-annotations.sls 20:34:29 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/2dfgcwe 20:37:58 i dont follow the code.. what is `value' ? 20:38:11 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 20:38:12 oh its a parameter from proc, oops 20:38:27 syntax highlighting is weird :p 20:38:31 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:57 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 20:42:10 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 20:45:16 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: i want to be formal but i'm 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