00:00:05 evening ppl ;) 00:00:35 -!- phax is now known as bitweiler 00:01:02 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 00:01:13 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:15 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 00:03:57 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:05:59 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 00:08:12 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:25 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #scheme 00:09:30 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:13:07 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:23:51 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-219.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:18 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:33:09 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:36:01 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:37:22 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:41 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:39:45 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@58.171.248.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:41:06 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:42:02 Kibane [Kibane@83.231.20.196] has joined #scheme 00:42:50 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:46 newbie008 [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-anqculqeidfkavxm] has joined #scheme 00:51:19 can someone help me translate a scheme snippet to a more imperative syntax? 00:51:26 it's a very very very short snippet 00:51:33 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-72-95-204-229.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:52:11 newbie008 pasted "make-counter function" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99207 00:52:12 newbie008: no, but we might be able to make it more functional :P 00:52:46 foof: haha, I think I don't need help with making it more functional 00:52:54 foof: I can probably write that in haskell 00:53:24 foof: now give me a second and i'll be annotating that paste with my guess at translating it 00:53:37 foof: i'll be translating it to lua but dont worry because lua has simple syntax 00:56:15 you can't write it in haskell without something like a state monad 00:56:45 and you can't make it imperative, though you could do an OO version 00:57:05 Is there any special incantation to bind a java method to a scheme procedure in sisc? I have `public static String hello() { return "foo"; }' on the java side and `(define hello (generic-java-method 'hello))' on the scheme side. When I call `(hello)' I get "Caused by Error: no applicable method for args () in generic procedure #0=#". Isn't this supposed to work? 00:57:08 you might be right about haskell but i'm pretty sure i can make it imperativewith closures 00:57:18 foof: you might be right about haskell but i'm pretty sure i can make it imperativewith closures 00:58:51 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:00:21 is that not already imperative? calling the return value from make-counter changes the world 01:01:24 turbofail: right but i mean "translate it to a more familiar syntax" 01:01:28 oh 01:01:57 newbie008: it already _is_ a closure 01:02:10 function make_counter() { var n=0; return function () { n+=1; return n; }} 01:02:14 in javascript 01:02:42 i think in lua it would be the same, just with "end" instead of braces 01:03:37 In Lua it would be: http://paste.lisp.org/display/99208 01:03:57 But it's mostly the same as Scheme and JS, there isn't anything more imperative about it. 01:04:32 newbie008 annotated #99207 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99207#1 01:05:18 foof: i don't argue that, my only problem is i'm not familiar with sexps 01:05:35 turbofail: thank you or that but please also see my post, i made that from scratch from my head 01:06:39 turbofail: so now we're on the same page 01:06:47 now comes my question 01:07:25 turbofail: I need some help applying that same translation to another piece of scheme code , but this time this scheme snippet uses callcc 01:07:55 turbofail: now, Lua doesnt have callcc but I want us to pretend it does because I cant understand callcc if it's being presented to me using sexps 01:08:03 hm 01:08:18 well, you can write it in continuation passing style, but in lua that will be hideous 01:08:25 it's already kind of hideous in scheme 01:08:38 newbie008: I don't think you'll get very far with that attitude. Why not learn to read (and write) Scheme instead? 01:09:01 newbie008 annotated #99207 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99207#2 01:09:18 foof annotated #99207 "no lambdas" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99207#3 01:09:27 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@58.171.237.104] has joined #scheme 01:09:42 turbofail: well CPS is more something that compilers do, not humans, right? 01:09:53 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:09:55 yeah 01:10:05 That's not true. Humans write CPS quite frequently. 01:10:06 but if you want equivalent functionality in lua that's all you get 01:10:06 turbofail: can you take a look at my paste, i think that would be a good beginner application of callcc 01:10:42 chandler: i'm sorry that you think i have an attitude, I really don't, i'm just dying of curiosity because i really want to understand continuations and i think i'm quite close to doing so 01:11:10 For instance, some "event-driven" frameworks in languages that don't have call/cc or coroutines involve the use of CPS for at least some of the program. 01:11:38 foof: WOW that paste of yours is a lot more readable!! 01:11:41 newbie008: You'd like to understand continuations, but you can't understand it if it's presented using S-expressions? 01:11:58 chandler: that's right, I get confused because I can't see the scopes 01:12:06 "Can't see the scopes"? 01:12:19 chandler: yes, which variable is within which scope and so on 01:12:29 chandler: i can't really see what is being applied to what 01:12:31 If reading Scheme confuses you, and you're unwilling to learn how to do that, what makes you think that you will be able to understand `call/cc'? 01:13:06 chandler: if you can't separate callcc from scheme then i don't think you'd be able to help me much 01:13:26 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:13:34 turbofail: i want a mock-equivalent in lua 01:13:44 It's not about separation. You've professed a desire to understand a sophisticated concept while stating that another concept - one which is actually much simpler - is too confusing for you. 01:13:45 turbofail: i want to pretend we have a function in lua called callcc 01:13:53 Why would anyone want to help you with this? 01:13:54 turbofail: and i need help translating that snippet to it 01:14:04 turbofail: i'll give it a try and show you what i have 01:14:07 well a function called call/cc in lua won't do this properly 01:14:19 you'd have to write everything in continuation passing style 01:14:49 and by everything i mean not actually everything 01:14:57 turbofail: why do I have to write everything in CPS if all callcc does is grab a copy of the stack? 01:15:23 well if there's some function that grabs the stack for you in lua then you can do it i guess 01:15:44 but i'm not aware of any such functionality in lua 01:15:44 turbofail: that's where i'm getting at, let's pretent i have that function 01:16:01 That function is called `call/cc', essentially. 01:16:27 chandler: ok so if callcc grabs a copy of the stack, then the first thing i dont understand is, why does it take parameters? 01:16:59 "parameters?" It takes one parameter. 01:17:19 The parameter that it takes is a function which is called with the continuation of the call to `call/cc'. 01:17:33 right, it takes an anonymous function that takes a continuation as its only parameter 01:18:20 Anyway, I'm not sure why I'm engaging you in this. No doubt I will stumble upon something else that you refuse to learn. 01:18:30 i guess what's confusing to me is, in my naive head all I'd have to do to grab a copy of the stack would be something like: 01:18:42 myCopyOfTheStack = callcc() 01:18:43 you could think of that argument as just "binding the continuation to a variable" 01:19:02 newbie008: What is the continuation of the call to `callcc()' there? 01:19:16 chandler: everything that is about to happen 01:19:48 turbofail: i have trouble grasping that very concept, why do i need to pass to callcc a function that takes a continuation? 01:19:55 Including binding the return value of `callcc()' to `myCopyOfTheStack', yes? 01:20:04 turbofail: would myCopyOfTheStack = callcc() not work? 01:20:18 chandler: oh hold on i think you're on to something 01:20:21 chandler: lemme think... 01:20:36 in any case i have to leave 01:20:44 turbofail: aww.. 01:20:54 but i think there's a decent article out there about CPS in python that might help 01:21:08 chandler: so you're saying if i did myCopyOfTheStack = callcc() i'd have a spoiled continuation? 01:21:19 turbofail: i will look for it 01:22:12 It wouldn't be "spoiled", but it is less useful than receiving a continuation which is a prefix of the current continuation. Consider the typical "escape" case, where the continuation is invoked as an early exit from some procedure. 01:22:41 chandler: ok, i've seen many examples of that, that's one of the simplest usages of continuations. go on 01:24:26 Suppose I've done something like (let ((k (call/cc values))) ...) . How do I "escape" using this continuation? If I invoke it, I wind up just returning back into where `call/cc' was called originally, and the value I pass the continuation is then bound to `k'. 01:25:12 I need to do something convoluted like: (let ((k (call/cc values))) (if (pair? k) (cdr k) (begin ... (k (cons #f return-value)) ...))) 01:25:45 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:25:52 In this case, I'm invoking the continuation to return a pair, which is used as a flag to indicate that I'm actually trying to escape from the whole control construct. 01:26:44 In ordinary style, I'd just write (call/cc (lambda (k) ... (k return-value) ...)) . 01:27:24 chandler: i think i see what you're saying 01:28:20 so myCopyOfTheStack = callcc() would be useless because when you call mycopyOfTheStack you would be transported to where you want to be, but the first thing you'd do when you get there would be to take a copy of the stack again? 01:29:16 No, that's not true. You'd wind up right where the return from `callcc()' is, which means that whatever value you pass to `myCopyOfTheStack' ends up bound to `myCopyOfTheStack'. 01:30:28 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-251-31.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERROR: do not makunbound t please!] 01:31:13 chandler: what do you mean by "bound" here? you mean lambda-bound, as in a bound variable or a free variable? 01:32:15 chandler: can i show you my translation of that scheme snippet to lua? I just finished it 01:32:27 chandler: i thin that'll help me understand better 01:32:31 I mean "bound" as in the sense of a local variable. 01:32:31 chandler: here it is: 01:32:34 newbie008 annotated #99207 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99207#4 01:32:42 I don't speak Lua, so I'll have to guess at what it means. 01:32:55 chandler: that's fine, lua is easy enough 01:33:23 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:29 chandler: just as a note, when in Lua I do something like "this = function() bla bla bla" that is Lua's way of declaring a lambda 01:33:44 OK, I think there are a few parts of this that are wrong. 01:33:51 `#f' is false. 01:34:06 `mysterious' isn't a function which returns a function; it's just an ordinary function in the Scheme example. 01:34:30 (env 1) is a call to the `env' procedure, not an assignment. 01:34:49 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 01:34:50 -!- Zarutian [~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Quit: Zarutian] 01:34:51 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:34:51 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 01:34:53 chandler: hmm... okay then let me try to fix it 01:35:05 `exit' isn't standard Scheme, but presumably quits the whole program. 01:35:11 chandler: but if mysterious isnt a function that returns a function then what does it mean for it to have "lambda" as its first line? 01:35:27 `define' doesn't define just procedures. It defines anything. 01:35:35 rudybot: eval (define x (lambda () 2)) 01:35:37 chandler: your scheme sandbox is ready 01:35:38 rudybot: eval (x) 01:35:38 chandler: ; Value: 2 01:36:17 ok i see 01:37:03 chandler: see if i have it right now: 01:37:10 newbie008 annotated #99207 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99207#5 01:37:47 -!- davazp [~user@64.Red-79-157-94.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:01 -!- Kibane [Kibane@83.231.20.196] has quit [] 01:38:49 newbie008: I think you still missed the bit about (exit) . 01:39:26 Also, in callcc(function(k) env = k end) the lambda needs to return 0 following the assignment. 01:39:29 chandler: is that all i missed? 01:39:41 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@58.171.237.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:40:05 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:40:19 chandler: then this one: 01:40:29 newbie008 annotated #99207 "final-version (hopefully)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99207#6 01:43:15 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:33 newbie008: `os.exit' seems to correspond to what the typical `exit' procedure does in Scheme. 01:44:50 chandler: ok so you think the code is correct now? 01:45:18 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@35-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:45:33 Hm. I don't quite think so. Let me paste what I think is the correct translation now. 01:45:35 you should never have to ask someone else if the code is correct. 01:45:49 You might need to ask them if the _tests_ are correct, though :) 01:45:53 *offby1* pontificates 01:45:58 chandler: ok thanks 01:46:40 chandler annotated #99207 "corrected version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99207#7 01:47:01 This wasn't an especially good example of how to use continuations, though. 01:47:50 Honestly, I think it would be absurd if I wanted to learn more about some language construct that Lua has - continuations, say - but decided not to learn Lua, and instead asked the participants in a Lua channel to help translate everything to mock Scheme. 01:48:38 chandler: when I was learning Python, I translated it into scheme in my head. 01:49:00 That may have been unfair to the voices in your head, but I can't see how anyone else would have been affected by that. 01:49:46 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:21 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:53:00 chandler: ok, i understand your point of view 01:53:08 chandler: i'll explain why i;m doing that later 01:53:16 chandler: i gotta go now but i'll be back in a couple hours 01:53:32 chandler: i appreciate the example and i'll read and re-read it and compare to the original 01:53:39 chandler: just as an aside 01:53:49 chandler: i understand continuations fine, and i understand passing them around 01:54:01 chandler: i just dont understand the callcc function 01:54:08 chandler: lua has coroutines 01:54:13 Then you don't understand continuations. 01:54:23 chandler: but the coroutines return a one-shot continuation 01:54:32 chandler: but someone made a hack to clone a coroutine 01:54:43 chandler: thus turning them into fullblown continuations 01:54:51 Coroutines are not the same thing at all. You can use single-shot continuations to implement coroutines, but that is a case of a more specific abstraction being implemented in terms of a more general abstraction. 01:55:03 chandler: see this if youre interested: http://lua-users.org/lists/lua-l/2006-01/msg00652.html 01:55:08 Yes, cloning coroutines would allow you to simulate call/cc inefficiently. 01:55:17 chandler: yes i understand all that 01:55:28 chandler: and yes the ONLY thing lua is missing is coroutine.clone 01:55:42 chandler: but that link has an implementation of it by modifying Lua's C source code 01:55:54 chandler: now mind you, in that context i can understand and use continuations successfully 01:56:01 chandler: and i understand all uses thereof 01:56:14 chandler: but callcc really complicates it beyong need 01:56:35 chandler: with coroutines with cloning ability all i have to do to save a continuation is yield, then capture that and clone it 01:56:52 chandler: no need to do CPS anywhere (not even inside the Lua C source code) 01:56:59 chandler: anyway i hope you're not mad at me :) 01:57:00 Which is both complicated and inefficient compared to using `call/cc' to reify the current continuation. 01:57:05 chandler: it's all in good fun 01:57:06 Why would I be "mad"? 01:57:15 chandler: that might be true, thats why im trying to understand callcc 01:57:18 chandler: now i'm going my wife is mad 01:57:22 chandler: see ya 01:57:27 -!- newbie008 [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-anqculqeidfkavxm] has quit [] 01:58:11 incubot: if you meet a luanista on the road... kill 'im. 01:58:14 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:58:15 I'm a road rider, mainly. Even though road cyclists are mostly self-absorbed assholes. 01:59:14 them, too, all tights and aerodynamic head gear... 01:59:57 -!- bitweiler [~phax@adsl-69-153-229-179.dsl.pnblar.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:48 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:02:57 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:10:08 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:13:45 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19:46 seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has joined #scheme 02:23:15 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:30:24 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 02:31:03 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-72-95-204-229.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:38:54 Pip [~pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #scheme 02:39:08 Hello guys, is there good way to use emacs with scheme ? 02:40:33 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:43:37 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:44:11 C-u M-x run-scheme 02:44:47 *foof* dislikes the tights and head gear but they're very necessary 02:45:02 C-h b 02:46:30 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:46:38 -!- luz [~davids@189.60.69.82] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 02:47:28 there is also geiser (for guile and mzscheme) or quack... mit-scheme has its own emacs. bigloo has extensive emacs mode... there once was a slime for scheme48... and i so long for africa. /me stifles a tear and a sigh. 02:48:00 ? 02:48:37 *sladegen* wants a farm in africa... never mind. 02:49:48 asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.121] has joined #scheme 02:50:27 *foof* wants a farm in Hokkaido 02:51:47 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:52:17 yea, could be less unhealthy. an island in the Pacific would be good, too. 02:52:31 timj_ [~timj@e176194147.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:52:55 ktzqbp_ [~ktzqbp@unaffiliated/ktzqbp] has joined #scheme 02:52:56 -!- ktzqbp_ [~ktzqbp@unaffiliated/ktzqbp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54:19 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@c-98-231-201-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55:03 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176197212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:56:07 -!- seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has left #scheme 03:08:55 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:11 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 03:09:31 -!- mhoye [~mhoye@shell.off.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:09:35 mhoye [~mhoye@shell.off.net] has joined #scheme 03:10:23 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 03:12:13 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13:49 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:24:31 Arelius [~user@208.80.117.82] has joined #scheme 03:24:43 pip_ [~pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #scheme 03:24:43 -!- Arelius [~user@208.80.117.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:57 -!- Pip [~pip@unaffiliated/pip] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:29:15 -!- pip_ [~pip@unaffiliated/pip] has quit [Client Quit] 03:34:15 Hokkaido ? Eek. Way too much snow. 03:34:16 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 03:35:41 and 70% of the commercials on TV are about some local brewery that sells cow piss rebranded as "beer" 03:47:00 I think you're talking to the wrong channel. 03:52:40 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:54 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 03:54:34 Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 04:01:58 newbie008 [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxyhfovobydzujcz] has joined #scheme 04:02:00 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@35-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 04:03:10 i'm back but i'll really be back in a few minutes 04:10:58 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 04:13:45 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:10 ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #scheme 04:21:05 -!- MononcQc 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[~mbohun@202.124.75.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:44:41 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:46:24 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 05:48:14 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:42 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 05:51:39 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.161] has joined #scheme 05:57:28 _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 05:58:00 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 05:59:25 -!- Guest6910 [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:06:28 -!- mathk [~mathk@83.158.241.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:38 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-36-82-251-61-89.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 06:11:21 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:11:52 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 06:14:41 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:19:15 -!- Axioplas1 [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: brb] 06:19:38 Axioplas1 [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 06:20:39 -!- Axioplas1 [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 06:20:51 -!- elderK [~zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: elderK] 06:25:15 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26:55 -!- Colloguy [~flu@64.134.236.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:29:32 Axioplase: a bunch of people from my lab just transfered to tohoku 06:30:05 how's working in japan? 06:30:26 foof: in CS? 06:30:42 Axioplase: yeah 06:31:15 I know a lab moved from Nara in NLP, and that a few guys from Todai got positions too. 06:31:20 Kentarou Inui transferred there and took several students w/ him 06:31:25 What would they be studying in your lab? 06:31:27 that's that lab :) 06:31:39 i was in nara 06:31:58 Oh, I have a B4 from last year who went there. 06:32:23 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:10 who went to nara? we're grad-only, no B4's 06:34:24 No, who went to the new lab in Tohoku-dai 06:34:59 I'm jealous. I heard they have girls in his lab ^^ 06:36:29 a rare thing indeed! 06:37:03 hohoho_ [~hohoho@pa3a20d.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:37:03 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@pa3a20d.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:32 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 06:41:38 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 06:42:06 mm.. girls in the lab 06:42:59 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 06:45:16 ... in lab coats 06:45:31 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:46:38 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-36-82-251-61-89.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 06:51:21 ... glasses 06:59:55 ... serving tea 07:01:39 ... wishing to find a nice husband in their university so that they don't have to work once they're married, and can spend their husband's income in prada and vuitton bags, and their afternoons chit-chatting with friends in a starbucks 07:01:47 Aaaah, Japan 07:05:47 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #scheme 07:11:42 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 07:15:16 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:58 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.35] has joined #scheme 07:20:12 fabe [~fabe@p54A7DDE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:40:18 -!- newbie008 [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-bxyhfovobydzujcz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:41:45 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:41:46 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 07:42:09 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 07:45:42 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:47:54 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:01 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:49:34 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:50:21 HG` [~HG@85.8.72.77] has joined #scheme 07:57:22 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:58:49 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #scheme 08:00:24 Bonjour [~4e29e354@gateway/web/freenode/x-otcoqiovijfrivje] has joined #scheme 08:12:05 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 08:15:38 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:22:33 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.161] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:28 snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 08:29:04 -!- Bonjour [~4e29e354@gateway/web/freenode/x-otcoqiovijfrivje] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:40:58 elderK [~zk@125-238-255-129.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 08:40:58 -!- elderK [~zk@125-238-255-129.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 08:40:58 elderK [~zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 08:41:52 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 08:46:35 newbie008 [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-elxruukakytgcxfy] has joined #scheme 08:46:44 chandler: you're still there? 08:49:01 can anyone help me implement callcc on a program that only uses CPS? 08:49:16 like wikipedia says 08:49:37 all one needs to implement callcc in a language is for that language to offer closures and for the programmer to use CPS 08:49:45 well I'm using Lua and it offers closures 08:50:14 my current implementation of callcc is as follows: 08:50:15 callcc = function(k,f) return k(f(k)) end 08:50:40 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 08:50:52 this almost works, "almost" meaning it does what it's supposed to, but somehow it keeps doing other stuff, namely it executes the statements that come after the callcc block, which it shouldnt 08:57:24 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-59.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 08:59:32 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 09:02:15 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:02:25 offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 09:03:51 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:06:40 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:11:44 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 09:12:05 masm [~masm@bl16-183-174.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:12:19 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 09:15:31 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:21:25 can anyone help me write a callcc function in CPS? 09:22:25 I found this: (define (cps-call/cc k consumer) (let ((reified-current-continuation (lambda (k1 v) (k v)))) (consumer k reified-current-continuation))) 09:22:30 but I don't know if it's right 09:24:02 newbie008: this is the quiet time 09:24:13 east coast US will be waking up in another couple of hours 09:24:40 foof: oh i know that, i'm in the US too, CST 09:24:45 but I work overnights :) 09:24:46 hypercube31 [~hypercube@253.240.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 09:26:14 Bonjour [~4e29e354@gateway/web/freenode/x-ksxjvlgdsngxseri] has joined #scheme 09:32:58 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has left #scheme 09:33:55 newbie008: why has your call/cc two arguments? 09:38:15 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:39:59 lysium: i dont know lol 09:40:11 lysium: should only have oone, right? 09:40:15 right 09:40:31 lysium: oh hold on i know why 09:40:40 lysium: because it's in continuation-passing style 09:40:44 lysium: that's why 09:41:05 lysium: but that function i pasted above i didnt write, it came from c2 09:41:20 lysium: from here: (no need to scroll down): http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?CallWithCurrentContinuation 09:41:52 what about 09:41:53 ,--8<- 09:41:54 |(define call/cc 09:41:54 | (lambda (consumer k) 09:41:54 | (let ((cc (lambda (result) (k result)))) 09:41:56 `-->8- 09:41:58 (consumer cc k)))) 09:42:01 ? 09:42:23 looks like your c2 lol 09:42:31 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 09:42:41 lysium: so its exactly the same thing, right? 09:42:45 right 09:43:10 hmm actually not quite 09:43:15 it's not the same at all 09:43:20 lol 09:43:25 do you know for a fact that your version works? 09:43:29 no 09:43:30 i mean, are you able to test it? 09:43:38 i can try 09:43:52 please 09:44:14 i'm looking for a callcc implementation written in continuation-passing style that is verified to work 09:44:35 that's incredibly hard to find on google (only found that c2 version) 09:44:43 if you can, try both your version and c2's 09:46:33 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:48:01 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:50:14 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 09:50:21 lysium: how did it fare? 09:50:30 mom 09:50:32 moment 09:52:43 ok 09:55:53 alaricsp [~alaric@mukhadvaram.gurukuli.co.uk] has joined #scheme 09:58:47 -!- Bonjour [~4e29e354@gateway/web/freenode/x-ksxjvlgdsngxseri] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:04:26 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:39 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:35 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 10:15:58 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:19:38 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22:37 Kibane [Kibane@83.231.93.62] has joined #scheme 10:24:10 lsyium pasted "cps-cc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99214 10:24:44 newbie008: the c2 definition works in the given paste 10:25:50 call/cc in cps-style is 'easy', as the continuation is already given explicitly as a parameter 10:26:16 I should have put the continuation as first parameter, but when I realized it, it was too late to change everything 10:27:26 in c2, the continuations also take two arguments: the result and a further continuation 10:27:35 in the paste, continuations take only one argument 10:27:52 -!- newbie008 [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-elxruukakytgcxfy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:28:59 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:29:23 newbie008 [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-bofyslhwrkkohmnn] has joined #scheme 10:29:34 lysium: sorry about that, my browser crashed 10:29:39 lysium: i'm looking at your paste now 10:32:55 lysium: wow that's awesome 10:33:06 :-) 10:33:10 you basically reimplemented many functions from scheme in CPS 10:34:12 yes, if you do cps, you need cps-version of the 'primitives' 10:34:20 at least so I think 10:34:26 lysium: but did list-length and cps-list-length both perform exactly the same? 10:34:37 define 'perform' 10:34:40 the result is the same 10:34:41 lysium: you didnt test the list-length in the code 10:34:48 ? 10:34:50 did they return same results 10:34:56 yes, they did 10:35:31 ,--8<- 10:35:32 |> (list-length '()) 10:35:32 |0 10:35:32 |> (list-length '(1 2 3 4)) 10:35:32 |4 10:35:34 |> (list-length '(1 2 3 . 4)) 10:35:37 |#f 10:35:39 `-->8- 10:35:41 karljoh [~fooki@p249-n81.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #scheme 10:36:06 lysium: awesome, that's beautiful, and it helps me a lot 10:36:20 thanks, you're welcome 10:36:40 lysium: man, you're very good :))) 10:36:58 very comfortable with cps i can see 10:36:58 alvatar [~alvatar@87.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 10:37:25 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 10:38:03 lysium: could you also use cps-cc in a simpler function (much simpler than cps-list-length) so I can better convert it to another language? 10:38:48 try it yourself with the first example in http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_566 10:38:50 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/dn3xsn 10:42:25 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 10:42:35 newbie008_ [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-tnbnsadwlgmmieal] has joined #scheme 10:42:53 lysium: i crashed again 10:43:08 ? 10:43:13 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 10:43:13 lysium: i dont have scheme installed yet 10:43:28 lysium: what do you recommend as a batteries-included distro of scheme for windows? 10:43:34 drscheme 10:43:45 lysium: ok lemme look that up 10:44:22 lysium: (about the crashes: i'm in oklahoma city right now and we're in the middle of a heavy thunderstorm) 10:44:32 lysium: power goes down and disconnects my router 10:44:44 -!- newbie008 [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-bofyslhwrkkohmnn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:45:03 ic 10:45:53 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:46:02 when you start drscheme, you must setup the language level (Ctrl+L) 10:46:18 choose 'R5RS' under 'Legacy Languages' 10:47:12 lysium: awesome, i'm excited, thank you so much for walking me through this 10:47:42 lysium: first thing i'll try is to run your code 10:47:54 lysium: then once that works i'll try and apply it to what i need 10:48:04 lysium: the download's almost done 10:50:22 lysium: ok i selected R5RS and now it says R5RS at the bottom left corner of the window 10:50:42 lysium: even though if i click CTRL+ L again the little arrow still points to Swindle 10:50:45 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:51:31 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 10:51:34 lysium: oh that's because it's a dropdown, silly me 10:51:58 lysium: holy wows that worked fine 10:52:04 lysium: that was as painless as it can be 10:52:13 lysium: now i'm gonna try and do some stuff 10:52:44 -!- hypercube31 [~hypercube@253.240.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:53:26 lysium: wow indeed your cps-list-length returns exactly the same as list-length 10:55:39 lysium: ok lysium, i have a question, if you see the first example in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call-with-current-continuation 10:55:50 lysium: i can get the first display line to work 10:56:12 lysium: but the second one is missing some parameters, that cant be right, plus DrScheme also says it's missing something 10:56:37 lysium: while you look at that i'm gonna try the first example of that page you gave me 11:10:21 testing 11:11:36 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:11:43 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 11:12:47 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 11:13:51 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:14:07 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 11:14:48 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #scheme 11:15:45 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:45 jgracin_ [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #scheme 11:15:53 -!- jgracin_ [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:58 whats the shorcut to walk the sexps in DrScheme? 11:22:05 the keyboard shortcut i mean 11:25:23 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:26:39 Zarutian [~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is] has joined #scheme 11:33:52 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ac735ac.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 11:38:54 cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:40:16 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has left #scheme 11:40:28 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 11:41:16 -!- newbie008_ is now known as newbie008 11:42:43 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 11:44:35 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:44:38 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-233-55.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:45:57 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:51:03 newbie008: there's a 'debug' button in the top row, near the 'Run' and 'Stop' buttons 11:51:43 the wikipedia example works for me 11:55:33 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.72.77] has quit [Quit: HG`] 11:59:27 lysium: this line works for you? 11:59:30 lysium: (display (call-with-current-continuation f)) ; displays 2 11:59:49 > (display (call-with-current-continuation f)) 11:59:50 2 11:59:52 yes 11:59:57 lysium: to me it doesnt even make sense, isnt f a function that takes one parameter? 12:00:13 yes, and call/cc calls f with that one parameter, the current continuation 12:01:21 lysium: funny, now it worked 12:01:28 lysium: hmm i'll have to think about that 12:03:04 lysium: do you know any lua? 12:03:43 marginally 12:04:33 lysium: great, gimme just a second 12:05:22 newbie008 pasted "understanding cps-cc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99221 12:05:57 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:05:58 lysium: those questions are mainly because i don't know how to tell in Scheme when something is being returned or simply executed 12:11:48 casually, the result of a scheme expression is the value of the last expression executed; there is no 'return' keyword or similar 12:12:11 concerning your question in the paste, that depends on how you return values in lu 12:12:15 lysium: oh, so scheme always returns the last evaluation? 12:12:19 yes 12:12:25 lysium: ok that helps a lot 12:12:33 grwat 12:12:34 lysium: what about the way to return things in lua? 12:12:35 great 12:12:44 I don't know 12:13:02 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 12:13:04 lysium: lua only has lambdas, there are no named functions 12:13:13 lysium: every name is just a pointer to a lambda 12:14:20 that's the same in scheme 12:14:35 lysium: in lua I can do something silly like: 12:14:38 lysium: yell=print; print=1; yell(print) 12:14:45 lysium: and it'll print "1" 12:15:01 Lua's print is Scheme's display 12:15:30 lysium: now what i mean is 12:15:38 lysium: did i get the returns right on my translation? 12:15:51 lysium: or being that scheme always returns the last evaluation, i should always return on my code? 12:15:58 this yell-print thing, you can do it in scheme, too, no problem 12:16:02 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:16:18 I don't know how you return value from a function in lua. 12:16:43 lysium: i have to use the keyword return 12:17:18 so that's the way it is 12:18:01 lysium: how do you do the yell print thingy in scheme? 12:18:06 lysium: i'm trying something like 12:18:15 lysium: (let yell display) 12:18:31 ,--8<- 12:18:31 |> (define yell display) 12:18:31 |; no values returned 12:18:31 |> (define display 1) 12:18:31 |> (yell 1) 12:18:33 `-->8- 12:18:36 1#{Unspecific} 12:19:05 lysium: doesnt like it: define-values: cannot change constant identifier: display 12:19:54 yes, drscheme does not allow to change that definition 12:20:13 lysium: oh ok 12:21:17 if you change the language to 'essentials of programming ...' it should work 12:23:01 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:23:07 lysium: how do you paste multilines here? 12:23:24 that's my irc client, irssi 12:23:29 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:23:38 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 12:24:27 lysium: oh 12:24:51 lysium: I'm trying to convert this --> (define (f return) (return 2) 3) <-- (wikipedia's first function) to CPS 12:24:55 lysium: here's what i got: 12:25:05 lysium: (define (f2 return k) (k (return 2) 3)) 12:25:26 lysium: i think that last 3 is wrong 12:26:44 k is the continuation? It either takes only one argument, the result, or two, where the second is the (next) continuation 12:27:18 lysium: correct, k is the continuation, just like all your implementations on that file you gave me (the CPS version of adding, subtracting, etc) 12:32:03 -!- karljoh [~fooki@p249-n81.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 12:32:18 xwl [~user@125.34.170.89] has joined #scheme 12:33:01 so it takes only one argument, not two 12:33:28 lysium: i think i got it 12:33:30 lysium: hold on 12:37:48 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 12:38:06 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 12:39:54 newbie008 annotated #99221 "cps version of F" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99221#1 12:40:05 lysium: that's what i have, it almost works 12:40:13 lysium: can you spot what's wrong? 12:40:57 lysium: i dont think my cps-f is truly CPS because it evaluates 3 outside the last function call 12:42:13 lysium: oh i probably have to put all that inside a lambda!! 12:43:06 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 12:44:40 newbie008 annotated #99221 "still doesnt work" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99221#2 12:45:43 hm, i guess you're tripping over: continuations here have no continuation, but just take a single argument 12:46:08 i mean, the '3' is never evaluated anyways 12:46:19 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:46:24 but to properly represent it, you must pass a continuation to return that evaluates '3' 12:46:39 which never happens, as return discards its given continuation 12:46:44 lysium: that's the point of the example, right? that the 3 is there and it wont be evaluated it it's callcc'ed 12:46:50 and uses the one when created in cps-cc 12:47:25 lysium: can you check out my last annotation to see if i'mgetting close? 12:48:33 lysium: on that last example i believe i did exactly what you said 12:48:48 lysium: but it still doesnt work... 12:52:44 lysium annotated #99221 "two-arg continuation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99221#3 12:54:34 -!- hohoho_ [~hohoho@pa3a20d.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:55:25 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:56:00 lysium: ok i understand perfectly what you did there 12:56:21 lysium: but i don't think that's the way to go 12:56:25 :-) 12:57:04 lysium: because you just made the return function take two parameters and that screws up the other example that is supposed to output 3 12:57:17 take a look at my fix, it works now but it does something extra 12:58:14 newbie008 annotated #99221 "very close to solving" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99221#4 12:59:09 lysium: now i really need you to give me the solution because i cant figure out why the last function that is supposed to only print 2, prints 2 AND ALSO 3 12:59:51 yes, because your return actually returns, which it shouldn't 13:00:00 that's not cps anyway 13:00:10 lysium: :(( 13:00:17 lysium: what i'm doing is not cps? 13:00:48 not exactly, I think 13:00:56 when you say '(return 2)' 13:01:06 there is an implicit continuation waiting 13:01:12 namely, '(k 3)' 13:01:32 instead, the continuation should be named explicitly as an argument to '(return 2 (lambda (k) ...))' 13:01:33 lysium: i thought that was the tail call 13:01:38 ? 13:01:40 lysium: and the line before it is not waiting for it at all 13:02:17 lysium: if we do what you suggested then you're changing the nature of return, namely from being a function that takes 1 parameter to being a functio nthat takes 2 13:02:48 lysium: that's not the way to do CPS i think, the only thing we change in CPS is transform what was returned into a parameter to the continuation 13:05:58 ok 13:06:19 in any case, you have calls waiting after (return 2), which should not be the case 13:07:22 lysium: (return 2) is just a body 13:07:37 lysium: CPS'ed functions can't have bodies? 13:10:53 gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:11:25 i did not say that 13:11:31 lysium: i think they can as long as the bodies are not waiting for anything that comes afterward 13:11:45 but there is (k 3) afterwards 13:13:12 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 13:15:45 lysium: but as i understand that is fine because it's a tail call 13:15:57 ok 13:15:58 lysium: (k 3) doesnt need to return, it's not part of an expression 13:16:31 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:16 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 13:30:19 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:30:19 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 13:30:48 -!- gweiqi [~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:32:04 Michael_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:34:55 phao [~phao@189.107.222.109] has joined #scheme 13:35:25 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:37:42 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.222.109] has left #scheme 13:39:53 lysium: hey man 13:39:58 lysium: i appreciate all your help 13:40:10 lysium: i gotta go now but i'll be back soon 13:40:45 lysium: just wanted to let you know that you helped me a lot and that because of you i'm very close to being able to do what i'm trying to (which is implementing callcc in Lua via CPS) 13:43:06 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 13:43:42 luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 13:45:53 lysium: i'll see you later 13:45:57 -!- newbie008 [~48c8da6f@gateway/web/freenode/x-tnbnsadwlgmmieal] has left #scheme 13:46:08 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:46:26 -!- 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[~greg@cpe-67-247-134-161.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:08:50 ventonegro [~alex@187.51.143.218] has joined #scheme 15:10:36 can anyone point me to literature re implementing dynamic binding on compilers that use CPS as intermediate language? 15:13:30 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 15:15:24 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 15:16:00 *offby1* watches the tumbleweeds skitter down Main St 15:16:08 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.37] has joined #scheme 15:16:47 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17:30 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.35] has quit [Quit: off] 15:18:34 offby1: Google fails me about this, what is weird 15:21:23 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:49 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 15:22:29 -!- alaricsp 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celebration 19:42:59 *jcowan* scatters largesse among the populace 19:43:39 If I understood arcfide properly, let-syntax splices its names into the containing environment rather than pushing a new containing environment, but is that really true? 19:43:50 I can't find any warrant for it in R5RS. 19:43:58 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:30 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:44:35 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 19:45:56 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:03 14WAAMU1K [57o9@57o9.org] has joined #scheme 19:47:51 -!- 14WAAMU1K is now known as bgs100 19:48:02 -!- bgs100 [57o9@57o9.org] has quit [Changing host] 19:48:02 bgs100 [57o9@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 19:48:18 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:48:31 jcowan: see http://sisc-scheme.org/r5rs_pitfall.scm 8.3 19:50:40 Ah, thanks. I see that R6RS has changed ("fixed") this. 19:56:35 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:31 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:12:08 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: the crop circles are talking tooo meeeeeeee] 20:14:33 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.199.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:14:42 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:14:47 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@87.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:17:34 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:46 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:28:50 -!- laevus [~marc@196-210-171-56-wrbs-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: laevus] 20:32:31 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:34:16 fschwidom [~fschwidom@p5B26A6F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:35:55 gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.19.11.138] has joined #scheme 20:39:29 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@35-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:41:27 doc_who [~doc_who@c-98-231-201-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:44:55 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 20:48:35 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:49 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:28 kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:53 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o eli 20:55:14 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 20:55:43 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o eli 20:57:45 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-176.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:57:54 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-59.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:48 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:04:49 -!- turbofail [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #scheme 21:11:37 -!- gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.19.11.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:04 somnium [~user@adsl-65-181-75.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 21:12:21 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:12:46 can anyone suggest good resources on cps conversion (preferably related to concrete implementations) ? 21:14:48 Read the Rabbit compiler, or at least the comments. 21:14:58 jcowan: thanks 21:15:06 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:07 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:15:39 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-50-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:10 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-50-3.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 21:17:31 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:18:06 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:56 also http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~boucherd/mslug/meetings/20041020/minutes-en.html 21:18:57 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/fj4af 21:19:15 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-102-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 21:19:59 somnium: it seems we share interests 21:21:00 somnium: when you get to implement dynamic binding please tell me how you did it :) 21:23:15 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:37 ventonegro: Im targeting javascript (with semantics similar to a typeless ML), so far I've been 'cheating' by generating js-functions for non-tail calls, thinking cps conversion might permit even tidier code. 21:24:52 (disclaimer: I dont really know what I'm doing) 21:25:03 somnium: heh 21:25:34 somnium: how do you do tail-call elimination in JS? 21:25:52 after CPS conversion all your calls will be tail-calls 21:25:56 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7DDE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:10 fabe [~fabe@p54A7DDE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:28:52 ventonegro: api calls cant be helped I guess, but Ive had good results by just inlining calls and changing recursion to switch/while loops 21:30:17 -!- ventonegro [~alex@187.51.143.218] has quit [Quit: ventonegro] 21:30:26 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7DDE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:12 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-84-184.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:37:47 somnium: Are you going to use trampolined style for other calls? 21:38:29 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.100] has joined #scheme 21:40:11 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:56 chandler: for mutual recursion, between say f and g, Ive been generating functions that take "f" or "g" as the first parameter and then loop between the two 21:44:52 its based on paper I saw on eliminating tail calls in hostile environments 21:45:13 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:45:29 Which is a worthwhile optimization, but there are times when the call graph can't be analyzed statically. 21:47:46 chandler: are var-args the main source of this? so far Ive been enforcing fixed arity (for optimizations and currying) 21:48:28 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:49:03 mostly I wanted to see how much was possible with zero-runtime support 21:51:32 chandler: I should probably ask, what are the principle cases where the graph cant be analyzed and a trampoline is required? 22:15:12 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 22:16:39 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:11 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:25:34 waterh [~waterh@114.143.92.32] has joined #scheme 22:27:14 bitweiler [~phax@adsl-69-153-229-179.dsl.pnblar.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:27:26 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:19 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 22:31:19 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:05 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 22:38:02 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 22:48:38 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:51:53 a very silly example of elimination it does now 22:51:59 http://gist.github.com/401787 22:52:29 -!- luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 22:53:14 hopefully its inadequacies will become more apparent to me as I study the suggested resources, thanks to all for being helpful as always 22:56:48 -!- waterh [~waterh@114.143.92.32] has quit [Quit: later] 22:57:13 -!- somnium [~user@adsl-65-181-75.dab.bellsouth.net] has left #scheme 23:08:46 elderK [~zk@125-238-255-129.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 23:08:46 -!- elderK [~zk@125-238-255-129.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Changing host] 23:08:46 elderK [~zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 23:15:46 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:56 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 23:17:07 -!- elderK [~zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:18:46 elderK [~zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 23:18:48 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:20:34 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:25:38 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@35-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 23:25:40 arquebus [~shintaro@189.221.9.134.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #scheme 23:25:49 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 23:26:44 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ac735ac.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 23:27:22 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@p5B26A6F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:35 -!- kniu [~kniu@pool-71-105-70-131.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:06 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:21 sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 23:29:21 -!- sjamaan [~sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has quit [Changing host] 23:29:21 sjamaan [~sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 23:31:32 -!- arquebus [~shintaro@189.221.9.134.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has left #scheme 23:32:37 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:11 -!- futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:36:27 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:36:53 futilius [~otheruser@2001:470:d:128:216:3eff:fe86:c70e] has joined #scheme 23:47:28 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:51:05 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:35 -!- masm [~masm@bl16-183-174.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #scheme 23:59:33 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-7-10.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme