00:06:01 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:06:10 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:09:25 -!- Frq [~chatzilla@88.240.84.243] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:50 Frq_ [~chatzilla@88.240.84.243] has joined #scheme 00:14:39 Frq__ [~chatzilla@88.240.84.243] has joined #scheme 00:16:15 problem : http://pastebin.com/50TG13ZT // the solution i tried but didnt work : http://codepad.org/uhDwHIkX 00:16:36 -!- Frq__ is now known as Frq 00:16:43 anyone can solve, correct it? 00:17:58 -!- Frq_ [~chatzilla@88.240.84.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:19:10 btw, i have this error>>>modulo: expects type as 1st argument, given: #; other arguments were: 10 00:19:38 anyone awake? 00:19:43 nobody here but us zombie processes. 00:20:04 :) 00:20:09 Frq: what do you consider (cond((odd? d)(x)) 00:20:15 to mean? 00:20:41 -!- Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 00:20:50 I don't think there's enough context in the assignment for me to understand it 00:21:21 or (#t) ? 00:21:32 Frq_ [~chatzilla@88.240.84.243] has joined #scheme 00:21:42 i dropped.. 00:21:56 if you see (x) in a normal evaluation position, what does that mean? 00:22:14 x is a digit of my card no 00:22:33 12345 shall be my card no .. i check one of them in other procedures 00:22:40 (x) means apply a function 'x' to an empty argument list 00:22:56 if you mean 'x', dont put parens around it 00:23:00 same for (#t) 00:23:25 if a digit is odd i add that digit , if even ( if <5 2*digit) (if >4 2*digit+1) 00:23:26 rudybot: init r5rs 00:23:26 erato: your r5rs sandbox is ready 00:23:54 rudybot: eval (define x 10) 00:24:03 rudybot: eval (define d 9) 00:24:15 rudybot: eval (cond ((odd? d) (x))) 00:24:15 erato: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: 10 (no arguments) 00:24:24 rudybot: eval (cond ((odd? d) x)) 00:24:24 erato: ; Value: 10 00:24:30 -!- Frq [~chatzilla@88.240.84.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:24:31 see? 00:24:44 -!- Frq_ is now known as Frq 00:25:09 ok i deleted parantesis from x , #t and #f 00:25:27 so, lets go on... 00:25:37 still the same 00:25:49 modulo (or 'remainder') only takes numbers as arguments 00:26:07 what type has the value of a call to encodedTotal? 00:26:26 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:26:47 hm 00:27:05 erato: technically modulo and remainder aren't the same 00:27:39 (if(= 0 (modulo (encodedTotal cardNo 0) 10))#t #f)) ;here i have error it says 00:27:43 IJP: i was just looking that up, but you were faster :) 00:27:44 about modulo 00:28:02 think about the return type of encodedTotal 00:28:21 the body of the function is a single lambda-expression 00:28:26 after recursing dont it return a number? 00:28:43 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:28:50 what type has a lambda-expression? 00:29:09 procedure? 00:29:15 indeed 00:29:22 a procedure is cleary not a number 00:29:37 so what shall i do 00:29:47 use numbers for modulo 00:30:21 how come? i need to return a number from encodedTotal 00:30:23 or try to explain what encodedTotal should do 00:31:41 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:31:56 what does scheme do when it sees (d+1)? 00:32:23 increase d 00:32:26 dont it? 00:32:30 no 00:32:38 prefix syntax, not infix 00:32:43 it sees the identifier 'd+1' 00:33:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 00:33:01 and thus tries to apply the function 'd+1' to an empty arg list 00:33:34 how can i increase d then 00:33:42 (+ d 1) 00:34:12 rudybot: eval (define d 0) 00:34:15 ahh.. its a bit late here 4 am 00:34:17 rudybot: (d+1) 00:34:17 erato: I set it to aspell, and added the extra parameters (-d ro, romanian checking) 00:34:20 confused :) 00:34:30 rudybot: eval (d+1) 00:34:30 erato: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: d+1 in module: 'program 00:34:36 rudybot: eval (+ d 1) 00:34:36 erato: ; Value: 1 00:34:39 see? 00:35:02 yes 00:35:08 ok 00:35:18 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 00:35:35 why did you use a lambda form in encodedTotals? 00:36:17 i didnt know it retuns a procedure if i use lambda .. i only knew it's non named operation 00:36:28 still trying to understand it 00:36:52 what do u suggest me to do? 00:36:53 don't use keywords you don't understand :) 00:36:59 because he's seen too much too early without proper lecture probably... 00:37:05 i t hought i did :) 00:37:33 only 1 hour class with 90 slides.. 00:37:44 no problem 00:37:48 i have time 00:37:52 + whole days without sleep at home sitting in front of pc 00:37:58 2 days 00:38:11 maybe you should sleep right now 00:38:26 i cant ... deadline is 9:00 am :D 00:39:06 i was into my network project .. online tictactoe .. so this has reached to deadline 00:39:13 Frq: what's the time? 00:39:17 4 am 00:39:27 ok, 5 hours left :) 00:39:30 but i have 2 more to do after this 00:39:40 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-65.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:39:42 2nd out of 4 00:40:00 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-65.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:40:12 try to explain what encodedTotal should do... 00:40:30 start with: "it takes a card number and a total value for ..." 00:40:44 i tried to recurse and get the total of a card number after encoding 00:40:46 i mean 00:40:57 123 >>> 3. is first digit 00:41:01 so 3 is 3 00:41:14 2 is second and less than 5 so 2 becomes 4 00:41:29 i did this in encode procedure 00:41:29 ok 00:41:35 i see 00:41:45 and tried to add 1+4+3 in encoded total 00:41:47 you really do not want that lambda there 00:41:58 ok 00:42:10 what are 'x' and 'd' for? 00:42:26 erato: docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:90jhOy3av_MJ:gustavus.edu/%2Bmax/concrete-abstractions-pdfs/chapter5.pdf+Credit+card+numbers+also+use+a+divisor+of+10+and+also+use+a+function+that+yields+di+itself+when+i+is+odd.&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiMM5EfyGN5Lv2_COvrMAW-3JiHazkgi5E4-dcNXas8Np_y05fmEjt9HqDpeZCPh-olfhINGPSdp1rmvs3Y5-yYhXHv9FoeQW4P859ZTPKIhVEbF5NznN0Wpz2VMFI88enL5wPy&sig=AHIEtbSrK5y6QHHNYy1W4gXWxS-4N3TJJA 00:42:32 x is my digit. d is number of digit 00:42:33 crap 00:42:39 http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:90jhOy3av_MJ:gustavus.edu/%2Bmax/concrete-abstractions-pdfs/chapter5.pdf+Credit+card+numbers+also+use+a+divisor+of+10+and+also+use+a+function+that+yields+di+itself+when+i+is+odd.&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiMM5EfyGN5Lv2_COvrMAW-3JiHazkgi5E4-dcNXas8Np_y05fmEjt9HqDpeZCPh-olfhINGPSdp1rmvs3Y5-yYhXHv9FoeQW4P859ZTPKIhVEbF5NznN0Wpz2VMFI88enL5wPy&sig=AHIEtbSrK5y6QHHNYy1W4gXWxS-4N3TJJA 00:42:41 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/38pfdze 00:44:04 offby1: :) 00:44:07 5.13 00:44:13 for 12345 : for 5 : x=5 and d=1(digit order number) for 4 x=4 d=2 00:50:09 Frq: that's a cool problem. Here's my function: http://gist.github.com/378864 00:50:25 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:50:41 i'm checking 00:52:41 i guess its same as my procedure . i'm stucked at encodedTotal procedure 00:53:05 i need to sum each bit after encoding 00:53:49 btw, this was mine http://codepad.org/uhDwHIkX 00:54:15 Frq: but yours does not work :) 00:54:32 i know :D but i'm tring to solve encodedTotal 00:54:47 by trial and error? 00:55:17 i didnt understand what u mean now 00:55:39 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:56:06 anyway, how does your code look now? 00:56:25 still thinking 00:56:40 after finishing this a tictactoe problem i have 00:56:52 and last part abpout complex numbers as far as i remember 00:57:38 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:29 http://codepad.org/RXNuxXjB 01:02:42 it print something but dunno if its ok 01:02:49 i'm checking 01:04:15 i would greatly appreciate a proper indentation 01:05:38 as i understand, u say my indentation is bad right? i'm new to scheme (so new) so i'll learn :) 01:06:03 let the editor indent for you 01:06:11 you thing this is ok? i'm just curious about "d" digit.. 01:07:02 i dunno 01:09:30 how can i check 01:09:35 dunno 01:14:02 ok seems i solved it 01:15:08 now question 3 ... : try to find winner if exist from a tic tac toe game table that has finished 01:15:28 nobody ever wins tic tac toe 01:15:31 problem solved 01:16:02 :9 01:16:25 so first you may want to start with the data structure representing a board 01:17:21 oh 01:17:41 i think i can solve three ways 01:18:00 all 3+3+2 states of win checking. 01:18:09 -!- masm [~masm@85.240.39.101] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:18:12 2. thinking as lists 01:18:23 3. AI 01:18:43 but AI is hard to apply and i dont need to 01:19:06 testing for a winner in tic tac toe has nothing to do with ai 01:19:29 how do you represent a board? 01:22:26 sphex [~nobody@modemcable014.10-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:23:28 Frq: did you figure out encodedTotal? 01:24:49 yes 01:24:52 i solved the problem 01:24:54 good 01:25:31 http://codepad.org/RXNuxXjB this is solution i guess. (dunno if it is really) 01:25:34 -!- sphex_ [~nobody@modemcable014.10-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:25:58 but it shall be d instead (+ d 1) there 01:27:38 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-65.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:14 3 hours left.. 01:28:23 how do you represent a board? 01:29:30 i'm just starting 01:29:53 shall i use a (list '(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ) 01:30:02 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:32:13 your board should support only one selector, i think 01:32:45 (get-piece x y) -> 'X' or 'O' or 'free' 01:33:06 sorry, i mean (get-piece board x y) 01:33:30 get-piece a predefined keyword? 01:33:40 no 01:34:02 just a suggestion for your selector procedure 01:34:24 shall i write a tic tac toe 01:34:47 shall I compare thee to a summer's day? 01:35:13 18 01:35:23 didnt understand 01:35:46 hah, right :) 01:35:49 how do i get input from user 01:35:56 Frq: that's surprisingly tricky. 01:36:12 anyway i shall first solve problem later on i may write a tic tac toe 01:36:46 i likes scheme so much .. but its a bit harder than C i guess :) 01:36:53 depends 01:37:09 do they still teach C? 01:37:12 Frq: i would claim the opposite 01:37:24 offby1: why not? 01:37:40 erato: because it's a million years old, and isn't much used in industry any more. 01:37:45 but certainly C is a bad choice for learning to program 01:37:52 Its only value is a) historical; and b) it's a pretty clean simple language 01:38:19 offby1: from what I hear, C is still vital an small architectures 01:38:24 * on 01:38:24 probably. 01:38:35 But I bet waaay less than 10% of working programmers use it. 01:38:44 I haven't written a line of C professionally in a decade. 01:38:45 C is still vital on a lot of stuff. 01:38:55 offby1: what do you do right now? 01:39:00 well, hell; COBOL is vital on a lot of stuff. 01:39:07 doesn't mean the schools should be teaching it. 01:39:11 yeah, but COBOL don't run your OS. 01:39:29 Adamant: web site -- back-end-y stuff, mostly in Python, with some occasional Erlang and (when I can't wriggle out of it) C#. 01:39:39 C comes with the whole gnu/linux stuff 01:39:40 yeah, that would be why 01:39:52 (not trying to be a dick) 01:39:55 don't get me wrong; I used C for years, and was happy with it. 01:40:09 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:40:12 But it's so damned low-level; for _most_ of what (I think) most programmers want to do, it's the wrong choic. 01:40:14 choice. 01:40:16 also, I do know people using C/C++ for 'web backendy' stuff 01:40:22 yuck 01:40:26 but they work for top 20 US websites 01:40:40 I think C++ is one of Google's three allowed languages. 01:40:46 (Java and Python being the other two) 01:40:46 omg 01:40:48 that actually have some mild justification for use 01:40:53 alas, yes. 01:41:38 also, I think they tend to use C++ more for client-side apps that are hard to directly web-ify currently 01:42:04 e.g. Google Earth and Google Sketchup 01:42:26 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Quit: Emacs boggin' down; time to bounce it] 01:45:31 is there a number for tables in scheme i havent seeen 01:45:53 i mean array[10] i wanna use array[4] 01:46:04 in scheme arra[4] what i want 01:46:07 rudybot: eval list-ref 01:46:07 erato: ; Value: # 01:46:19 rudybot: eval (define l '(1 2 3)) 01:46:28 rudybot: eval (list-ref l 0) 01:46:28 erato: ; Value: 1 01:46:30 rudybot: eval (list-ref l 1) 01:46:31 erato: ; Value: 2 01:46:35 rudybot: eval (list-ref l 2) 01:46:35 erato: ; Value: 3 01:46:37 rudybot: eval (list-ref l 3) 01:46:38 erato: error: mcar: expects argument of type ; given () 01:47:03 oh thanks 01:47:20 offby1: I agree for the most part, but there is still no credible replacement for C/C++ for a lot of systems and embedded programming. And while systems and embedded programming probably don't put more programmer asses in paid seats than web stuff (ok, maybe embedded as a whole might), they are, you know, still a better job prospect than COBOL jobs for folks. 01:47:32 ah, he's gone 01:47:35 :) 01:47:47 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 01:48:00 Adamant: I'm sorry, but I cannot argue against you because I agree 01:48:35 Frq: try to define your own 'my-list-ref' 01:48:52 ok 01:49:04 i have x and o's 01:49:07 erato: I wish you could. There is stuff that can take C/C++'s lunch money in specific situations, but nothing sufficiently general to really overthrow it 01:49:15 in that niche 01:49:24 i will try to compare each . 01:49:29 even modulo the costs of relearning languages 01:49:34 do i need to use = or eq? eqv? 01:50:37 Frq: for numbers, use = 01:50:54 for any object, use eq? or equal? 01:51:02 for now, you can ignore eqv? 01:51:41 solution: http://codepad.org/hd2C884L 01:52:40 Adamant: i really like C, for using it as a portable assembler 01:52:58 I don't like C++ or Java 01:53:08 erato: I do too, but Apple apparently doesn't. 01:53:18 they have ObjC 01:53:29 you can treat Java and Javascript as a new wave portable assembler :PP 01:53:41 you might like them more then 01:54:04 i am pertectly happy with a scheme compiler and a c-function interface 01:54:26 python is ok, except that it lacks proper tail calls 01:54:34 erato: yah, I mean them keeping stuff that's source translated to an allowed language for the iThing from being used 01:55:13 Obj-C is OK besides that nonsense 01:55:16 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 01:55:25 Adamant: but, is far as I hear, this would not be legal 01:55:47 erato: not legal in what sense 01:55:56 Adamant: in the sense of law 01:56:13 I have no idea how the law is going to protect us from that one 01:56:20 you'd have to tell me 01:56:47 Adamant: i heard that apple requires you to write iPhone software only in those languages 01:57:11 yes 01:57:15 that is the case 01:57:25 this is madness 01:57:31 I thought you meant the law was going to somehow prohibit that restriction 01:57:39 no, sorry 01:57:55 I just wanted to clarify my meaning of "legal" 01:58:52 yes 02:00:16 Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:01:49 http://codepad.org/upJRXR5l 02:02:16 i've problem with eq? .. i thought it can be used with 3 args like (+ 1 2 3 ) :) 02:02:20 how to fix it? 02:03:01 seems also i used printscr wrong :S 02:03:53 Frq: you mix up the two 'define' syntax rules 02:03:54 -!- Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:04:01 the first ist (define name value) 02:04:05 * is 02:04:20 the second is (define (proc arg ...) form) 02:04:37 this is the same as (define proc (lambda (arg ...) form)) 02:04:51 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:13 hm 02:05:19 you have to write (define (printscr) (display "wins")) 02:05:32 or (define printscr (lambda () (display "wins"))) 02:05:57 it shall also get input 02:06:42 the program? 02:06:56 hmm ... I think it'd be easy to write an "eq?" that takes multiple arguments 02:06:58 i mean 02:07:11 offby1: indeed 02:07:25 (define (printscr (list-ref tttt 0)) (display "wins")) shall print x wins 02:07:29 or o wins 02:07:36 possible? 02:07:56 incubot: face my palm! 02:07:59 For about six months, my Palm + keyboard was my main computing platform. 02:08:26 incubot: why use a keyboard? 02:08:28 my great keyboard splitted the sentence :-P 02:08:34 rudybot: why use a keyboard? 02:08:34 *offby1: You don't use a keyboard? 02:08:42 we should find out which bot is smarter 02:08:48 :) 02:08:51 whats keyword for AND operator? 02:08:58 and 02:09:00 Frq: and 02:09:02 nice :) 02:09:09 cunning, eh? 02:09:22 rudybot: whats keyword for AND operator? 02:09:22 erato: I like HQ9+T. The T operator is specified to make the language Turing-equivalent, but it is not specified HOW. 02:09:29 :) 02:10:35 rudybot: is incubot smarter? 02:10:36 erato: i don't know what church you got to, but i can assure you the wine served on the one back home is of extremely good quality (granted it's located in a wine farming area, but still, it means you need to get yourself a smarter minister) 02:10:52 incubot: is rudybot smarter? 02:10:55 ooh, that's smarter than sarahbot 02:11:02 incubot: you win 02:11:02 this could go on for hours! 02:11:04 *offby1* is eating it up 02:11:31 slyphon [~slyphon@unaffiliated/slyphon] has joined #scheme 02:12:09 incubot: smart is hard. let's go to church. 02:12:12 you have to look deeper into how church numerals represent numbers to understand why it takes 2 arguments 02:12:28 no argument. 02:12:38 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.28.42] has joined #scheme 02:12:43 rudybot: t8 en pl smart is hard. let's go to church. 02:12:44 sladegen: smart jest trudne. idziemy do kocioa. 02:13:15 sladegen: your obsession with Polish intrigues me. 02:14:05 offby1: maybe he's greek? 02:14:13 yeah, i'm also fascinated how people get carried away about their nationality. 02:14:17 maybe he's italian. 02:14:30 my nationality can lick your nationality 02:14:55 it's polished enough, senk yoo. 02:16:16 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.28.42] has quit [Client Quit] 02:16:17 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:16:44 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.28.42] has joined #scheme 02:17:04 sladegen:   ,    ! 02:17:14 *offby1* whistles innocently 02:17:21 http://codepad.org/xTHnoSLx 02:17:32 whats the problem here . it shall print X wins 02:21:45 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 02:23:01 can u see the problem? 02:23:27 i shall take a break .. 5 hours no move from chair 02:23:43 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-228-36.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:24:22 that's pretty much been my whole weekend 02:24:31 although I confess I got up a number of times to eat and feed the cat 02:24:40 Frq: use a helper function like this: http://codepad.org/DgZhpN8G 02:24:42 rudybot: ????? ?? ??????, ?? ?? ??????? ???! you were saying? 02:24:42 sladegen: it really sounds like you're trying to figure out why this is an intimidating topic, and we're saying it's not, and you don't believe us so you're going to be intimidated by it anyway. 02:25:00 ContraSF [email@89-180-229-37.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 02:25:17 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:26:21 -!- MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:26:37 rudybot: eval (define ttt '((0 o) (1 o) (2 x))) 02:26:48 Frq: look what rudybot thinks about it 02:27:00 rudybot: eval (list-ref ttt 0) 02:27:00 erato: ; Value: {0 o} 02:27:05 this is a pair 02:27:13 rudybot: eval (list-ref ttt 1) 02:27:13 erato: ; Value: {1 o} 02:27:16 also a pair 02:27:17 sphex_ [~nobody@modemcable014.10-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:28:01 two distinct pairs can never be equal in the sense of eq? (which means "the same") 02:28:05 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:45 rudybot: eval (cadr (assoc 1 ttt)) 02:28:45 erato: ; Value: o 02:28:47 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:29:29 Frq: this would work, but seems to be strange overhead 02:30:06 -!- sphex [~nobody@modemcable014.10-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:30:21 man recursion is so hard 02:30:23 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:30:25 how do i become good at recursion lol 02:30:41 brucelee: first become good at recursion 02:30:45 haha 02:30:57 so are you saying once i become good at recursion 02:31:02 then that will allow me to be good at recursion 02:31:26 no sane human would doubt that 02:31:27 but to become good at recursion, i first need to be good at recursion 02:32:23 brucelee: how do you count the files in a directory, including the files in all subdirectories? 02:32:26 *offby1* wonders: since when are list literals mutable? 02:32:33 rudybot: eval '(a b c) 02:32:33 *offby1: ; Value: (a b c) 02:32:38 rudybot: eval (list-ref '(a b c) 0) 02:32:38 *offby1: ; Value: a 02:32:46 rudybot: eval (list-ref '((a b c)) 0) 02:32:46 *offby1: ; Value: (a b c) 02:32:59 *offby1* wonders if erato's sandbox is in r5rs mode or something 02:33:08 it is in r5rs mode 02:33:13 that'd explain it. 02:33:35 erato: actually, I'm not entirely certain that _immutable_ pairs can't be the same. 02:33:47 rudybot: eval (define one `((1 2 3))) 02:33:48 erato, i can just see how many files are in the first directory, then i go one step deeper and count how many files in the subdirectories 02:33:49 rudybot: eval (define two `((1 2 3))) 02:33:51 and then go one step deeper 02:33:54 rudybot: eval (equal? one two) 02:33:54 *offby1: ; Value: #t 02:33:57 rudybot: eval (eq? one two) 02:33:57 *offby1: ; Value: #f 02:33:59 hmph 02:34:02 :) 02:34:14 well, I could make an argument for eq? returning #t in that case 02:34:16 -!- Maxels [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:34:21 brucelee: do you see that directories are recursive data structures by nature? 02:34:27 yes 02:34:29 since the things are immutable, there's no reason they _couldn't_ be equal, if the reader felt like doing that 02:35:10 -!- ContraSF [email@89-180-229-37.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:35:29 offby1: sure, but in Frq's example, all the car's point to different numbers 02:35:52 so the pairs need to be distinct 02:35:52 true true 02:35:59 frq surely wants "equal?", not "eq?" 02:36:33 Frq's data structure looks kind of verbose 02:36:59 brucelee: recursive data structures love recursive algorithms, in principle 02:37:14 yeah basically tree structures 02:37:26 i'm back 02:37:29 brucelee: how do you count the pairs in a list strucure? 02:37:36 i've read what u type 02:37:41 pairs in a list structure? 02:37:53 what do u mean by pairs in a list structure 02:38:03 something like '(1 . ((2 . 3) . 4)) 02:38:03 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:38:06 how many pairs are that? 02:38:14 its a bit hard to write (cadr (list-ref tttt 0))) etc 02:38:27 so i shall redefine my tttt ? 02:38:33 you mean in a list, how many times you can divide it by 2? 02:38:50 3? 02:38:58 4 02:39:19 brucelee: you know what a pair in scheme is? 02:39:25 hehe no :P 02:39:30 Frq: simply count the dots :) 02:39:33 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:39:40 i just started reading the little schemer 02:39:51 (: 02:40:26 ContraSF [email@89.180.196.239] has joined #scheme 02:40:35 erato: I'm not sure that "count the dots" always works. There are no dots in (1 2 3), e.g. 02:41:03 offby1: but they are in (1 . (2 . (3 . ()))) 02:41:23 rudybot: init r6rs 02:41:23 erato: error: r6rs: must contain a `library' form (for a library) or start with `import' (for a top-level program) in: (#%module-begin) 02:41:33 that's why it is in r5rs 02:42:09 rudybot: init r5rs 02:42:09 erato: your r5rs sandbox is ready 02:42:45 rudybot: init rnrs 02:42:46 *offby1: error: module: no #%module-begin binding in the module's language in: (module program rnrs) 02:42:47 hmph 02:42:50 that sucks 02:42:55 indeed 02:43:43 brucelee: the point is that recursion is more natural than loops 02:44:50 the number of files in a directory tree is the number of files in this directory plus the number of files in every child directory 02:44:58 yea but it doesnt seem like it though because i started off learning programming in loops :o 02:45:07 thatst rue 02:45:21 this definition is recursive 02:45:37 and you seem to have no problem understanding it :) 02:45:59 yeah but programming it seems difficult :P 02:46:25 even by pseudocode 02:46:31 if you were to count the number of files by recursiion 02:46:44 it's one of those things ... once you get it, it's easy. 02:46:47 you would have to put in conditions like "if this no subdirectory, then do something" 02:46:54 brucelee: that's easy, if you allow a loop for all the subdirs 02:47:29 and maybe easier without such a loop 02:47:50 lets take a slightly different problem 02:48:03 print out the names of all files 02:48:03 so... if u were to code that in pseudocode, what would happen if it goes to a subdir with no subdirs 02:49:50 then the list of the subdirs would be () 02:50:00 or the iteration over the subdirs would do nothing 02:50:21 so you dont do a condition, to check if subdirs = (), then do nothing? 02:51:27 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:02 brucelee: http://codepad.org/tgK72FxO 02:52:26 i use an iteration over the things for the ease of understanding 02:52:36 but the procedure is recursive by nature 02:52:47 yes 02:52:48 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:52:52 i see how that works 02:52:53 yeah 02:52:57 its recursive 02:53:01 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.28.42] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 02:53:01 i'm about to drive crazy 02:53:14 what shall i do tom fix this :S 02:53:19 i tried cadr on them 02:53:21 pff 02:53:23 if you were to do it without recursion, it would seem difficult 02:53:38 brucelee: you would need to maintain a stack by hand 02:54:14 yeah i cant even think of how i would do it 02:54:17 without recursion 02:54:37 you don't have to, since you may recurse whenever you want 02:54:55 but if you wanted to though, just to illustrate the point, how would the iteration code look 02:55:10 so if you come across a 'thing' thats a directory 02:55:14 you push that thing into the stack 02:55:14 Frq: try (define tttt '(o o o x ...)) 02:55:25 cky_ [~cky@h-98-135-106-187.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 02:55:45 -!- cky [~cky@h-166-165-142-131.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:55:48 i've just did it 02:55:50 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 02:55:53 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176207035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:55:59 an errror >>> procedure application: expected procedure, given: o; arguments were: # 02:56:13 printscr is wrongly used 02:56:25 brucelee: let's assume we want to print the names in the same order 02:57:09 brucelee: we loop through the dir, if a thing is itself a dir, we prepare to loop through this one first and come back later 02:57:28 brucelee: so we push the current dir onto the stack and then enter the thing 02:58:00 http://codepad.org/eSYEjhaX 02:58:10 still errors S: 02:58:55 Frq: you seem to like long lines 02:59:01 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:59:25 :) 02:59:34 procedure application: expected procedure, given: o (no arguments) 02:59:38 error 03:00:53 it finds the winner but cond(()(error)) 03:01:12 i guess i'm the first person who tells where the error occurs like this :) 03:01:51 erator how would you code that iteratively though 03:02:40 so you have something that traverses through hte stack, and then you keep adding stuff into the stack? 03:02:50 you have a loop that iterates through a stack of dirs 03:02:58 and when you come across dirs in the loop, you add those into the stack 03:03:10 so the loop will keep going, for as long as there are dirs 03:03:23 i see 03:03:24 yeah i think that would work 03:03:25 :D 03:04:45 :) 03:05:02 probably will work, but you're maintaining a stack "by hand"; it's easier to let your language maintain the stack for you. That's exactly what recursion gives you. 03:05:27 Frq: your code looks so bad, why not use some helper functions? 03:06:08 my brain has been *** 03:06:37 i cant think some more .. i'm planning to skip last question from no on ... just eed to solve th is :'( 03:07:51 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:08:29 Frq: why not shorten it like this? http://codepad.org/enEtD1x9 03:09:49 timj_ [~timj@e176195160.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:10:02 brucelee: another question 03:10:20 brucelee: How many characters are in a given string? 03:11:07 brucelee: you might have been told how to solve this with a loop 03:11:09 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:13:02 erato: i'm trying to understand it .. i cant think anymore 03:14:55 Frq: so maybe you should not talk to a computer since it requires you to 03:15:30 didnt understand this last sentence also :D 03:16:12 ... think 03:16:30 -!- cky [~cky@h-98-135-106-187.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:21:00 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:21:44 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:22:58 (define (prn . args) (apply display args) (newline)) 03:23:07 here whats the usage of "." 03:23:14 i dunno that 03:23:24 apply: expects type as 3rd argument, given: "wins."; other arguments were: # o 03:23:30 this is last error to solve i guess 03:27:09 Frq: sorry, my fault 03:27:34 it should be 'for-each' instead of 'apply' 03:27:37 btw i deleted prn there and procedure application: expected procedure, given: o (no arguments) remains 03:28:11 ah it worke 03:28:15 works 03:29:29 but a weird thing is ... o wins :D x should have won it :D 03:34:20 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:17 erato, sorry about that 03:54:20 i was disconnected 03:54:22 from my ssh 03:55:13 how many chars in a given string? 03:55:25 what do u mean? it depends on the string :Pp 04:04:56 Can you give an algorithm for counting the chars in a string? 04:06:06 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:08:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 04:13:03 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:15:48 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:21:48 -!- ContraSF is now known as TR2N 04:26:43 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:31:34 r2q2 [~user@c-24-7-212-58.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:33:13 http://codepad.org/diWs9vnQ trying to find inner-product of 2 vectors 04:33:19 stucked again :/ 04:33:51 8 am last 1 hour 04:36:26 reprore [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:36:42 Len_ [~Len@77.127.167.32] has joined #scheme 04:40:49 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:41:46 -!- reprore [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:13 reprore [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:42:47 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 04:48:52 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 04:54:11 http://www.resimupload.com/ds933413167_tempppp.html 04:54:38 http://codepad.org/EvG7hZES 04:54:55 if any1 could understand what to do can u explain me too :S 04:54:58 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-162-12-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:55:08 have 20 mins to solve 04:56:57 -!- erato [~user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:34 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #scheme 05:02:40 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #scheme 05:08:12 -!- Frq [~chatzilla@88.240.84.243] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 05:21:50 -!- r2q2 [~user@c-24-7-212-58.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:22:26 cky [~cky@h-98-133-115-203.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 05:24:13 phao [~phao@189.107.136.194] has joined #scheme 05:37:15 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:22 Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 05:48:26 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:59:47 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 06:00:43 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:01:47 _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 06:08:00 -!- slyphon [~slyphon@unaffiliated/slyphon] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:20:14 -!- Maxel_ [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:21:01 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-67-172-254-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:27:40 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:53 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.136.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:43:37 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:57:35 what does pair? do? 06:58:05 Ask if the object you give it is a pair 06:58:14 incubot: (pair? 'a) 06:58:14 #f 06:58:20 incubot: (pair? (cons 'a 'b)) 06:58:20 #t 06:58:26 oh i see 06:58:38 i really should read a book, but what about cons? :p 06:58:40 in that example 06:58:53 cons is the pair constructor 06:59:10 The things created by cons are generally not called conses 06:59:51 oh 07:00:02 so if you do (cons 'a 'b 'c) 07:00:10 thats not a pair 07:00:15 so that wouldnt work? 07:00:28 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:31 cons doesn't accept three arguments 07:01:06 (so that's an error before you even get to the point where pair? can ask anything) 07:01:36 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:01:43 oh ok 07:01:55 so cons creates a list of 2? 07:02:03 No, cons creates a pair 07:02:16 whats the point of this 'pair' 07:02:25 You can create lists out of them 07:02:42 should i look at the 'pair' as a list of 2 elements? 07:02:49 A list is either the empty list or a pair where the cdr is a list 07:02:53 No 07:03:02 incubot: (cons 'a (cons 'b '())) 07:03:02 (a b) 07:03:08 That's a list of two elements 07:03:30 If you drop the empty list marker at the end, it's called an "improper list" 07:03:50 incubot: (cons 'a (cons 'b 'c)) 07:03:50 (a b . c) 07:03:53 is there any way to construct a list thats just a, b 07:03:54 without using cons? 07:04:01 incubot: (list 'a 'b) 07:04:01 (a b) 07:04:07 sowhy do we need pair? 07:04:07 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.238] has joined #scheme 07:04:15 does it make something more convienent? 07:04:20 Because it's the building block of lists 07:04:35 It allows you to create lists that share tails 07:04:55 *ASau`* smells list cells. 07:05:01 morning ASau` :) 07:05:29 Time to mention defmacro? ;) 07:05:35 incubot: (define my-tail (list 'x 'y 'z)) 07:05:36 # 07:05:45 incubot: (cons 'w my-tail) 07:05:45 Error: unbound variable: my-tail 07:05:49 arf 07:05:52 Stupid bot 07:06:01 Persistency :) 07:06:53 incubot: (let ((my-tail (list 'x 'y 'z))) (write (cons 'w my-tail)) (write (cons 'a my-tail))) 07:06:53 (w x y z)(a x y z)# 07:07:05 brucelee: See? Without pairs I couldn't do that 07:07:21 These lists share their last three elements 07:07:39 (Last statement isn't demonstrated.) 07:07:47 Correct 07:07:53 (setf!) 07:07:57 so you have a list called my-tail, thats x y z 07:08:00 set! you mean 07:08:02 setf is CL 07:08:03 then you cons w to it 07:08:06 and then you cons a to it 07:08:17 but you could have just done, list w x y z 07:08:23 and list a x y z 07:08:29 and they would give you the 2 lists 07:08:44 Yes, but it would use up almost twice as much memory 07:08:47 brucelee: strictly speaking, there're no lists. 07:09:02 brucelee: there're dot pairs interlinked some way. 07:09:06 And if I decided to alter the value of one of those pairs of the x y z, in my example it would change _both_ lists 07:09:10 That's what sjamaan tries to explain. 07:09:25 ASau`: I explained that before you joined 07:09:30 Ah. 07:09:33 Alright. 07:09:44 -!- ironChicken [~richard@mx.slab.org] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 07:09:48 oh ok i see 07:09:52 thanks :D 07:10:11 it basically combines lists 07:10:16 like it concatenates them right? 07:10:27 No, append does that 07:10:36 incubot: (append '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) 07:10:36 (1 2 3 4 5 6) 07:10:36 it doesnt create a list i guess it temporarily does it 07:10:39 so u can write it 07:10:42 How's that tool called that draws nice dot pairs?.. 07:10:54 dunno 07:11:14 sjamaan: so if u have apend, why not just use append, instead of cons 07:11:14 ? 07:11:19 brucelee: Lists don't really exist except in the programmer's head 07:11:31 Because cons is different than append 07:11:43 append concatenates lists, wheras cons creates pairs 07:12:16 but for the purpose above 07:12:18 append also drops the trailing empty list of the first list 07:12:20 brucelee: basically it is this: 07:12:21 [1 . -]-->[2 . -]-->[3 . -]-->[4 . -]-->[5 . -]-->[6 . nil] 07:12:46 when you "(cons 0 it)", it becomes: 07:12:48 Nice ASCII arts :) 07:13:09 07:13:09 [1 . -]-->[2 . -]-->[3 . -]-->[4 . -]-->[5 . -]-->[6 . nil] 07:13:09 ^---[0 . -] 07:13:40 that looks like appending though 07:13:49 looks like appending 0 to the list 07:13:51 You could "(cons 666 it)": 07:14:08 brucelee: Have you ever implemented singly linked lists in a low-level language like C? 07:14:11 v---[666 . -] 07:14:11 [1 . -]-->[2 . -]-->[3 . -]-->[4 . -]-->[5 . -]-->[6 . nil] 07:14:11 ^---[0 . -] 07:14:17 sjamaan: yeha 07:14:22 brucelee: That's what this is 07:14:30 Note, that you have original list (1 2 3 4 5 6) unmodified. 07:14:43 right 07:14:43 A pair is a list element, which contains a 'next' pointer, which in Scheme corresponds to the cdr 07:14:49 It exists even after you performed cons or append. 07:15:21 sjamaan: do you have netbsd-4 by chance? 07:15:26 No 07:15:29 or netbsd-5 before time_t switch? 07:15:41 ASau`: You might bug Snader_LB, I think he's still running 4 07:15:50 do I see ASau` typing a linked list in IRC??? 07:15:57 :) 07:16:24 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:41 Quadrescence: I can write Fortran in any language. :p 07:18:33 <_danb_> brucelee: I thought this blog was kind of interesting on car/cdr/cons cells; note that clojure is a bit different http://www.mschaef.com/blog/2008/02/14 07:19:11 thanks for the link 07:19:12 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:19:25 ASau`: :))))) 07:21:44 hey in drscheme, how do i run code thats written to a file? 07:21:48 do i just open the file 07:22:00 with the code, and just type in a command? 07:22:41 so far i have 2 tabs, and i sthere no way to close the tabs? 07:23:11 load 07:24:08 i open the file, i see my code on the top frame of the window 07:24:11 and i press Run 07:24:34 it gives me something weird like "Module Language: only a module expression is allowed, either #lang 07:24:41 sjamaan: btw, do you have any idea why drscheme dumps core? 07:24:42 or (module ...) 07:24:44 hahaha 07:24:59 ASau`: I don't know. I guess it's b0rked 07:25:06 mzscheme works fine for me, though 07:25:13 sjamaan: yes, I know. 07:25:25 ASau`: Try mred 07:25:28 Does that work? 07:25:36 afair, it's mred that dumps core. 07:25:40 ic 07:25:50 Is it up-to-date? 07:26:18 brucelee: Now's the time to start reading the manual 07:26:24 Even when I build from svn, it breaks. 07:26:32 Well, that's expected 07:26:38 brucelee: Make sure that you have something like "#lang scheme" at the top of the file. 07:26:40 (or at least not unusual) 07:26:43 If you want my package, I can share it. 07:26:53 ok let me try that 07:26:54 brucelee: And then just click run. 07:27:09 ASau`: Nah, mzscheme is enough 07:27:12 brucelee: Do *not* try to use `load', unless you really know what you're doing. 07:27:25 brucelee: And to close a tab, use Ctrl+W. 07:27:34 BTW, it is yet to be found how I turn on debug symbols. 07:27:52 ASau`: How does it break? 07:28:10 eli: normally dumps core. 07:28:25 That's not enough information, obviously. 07:28:32 stack trace is meaningless, I don't see how I turn debug symbols on. 07:28:51 They always get stripped off. 07:29:07 If you build from the source, then the mzscheme/mred binaries are not stripped. 07:30:13 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 07:30:13 I'll start new build. 07:30:55 Does it break on any code, or on something specific? 07:31:07 Are there any drscheme extensions involved or not? 07:31:31 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 07:31:50 Also, svn might not be the best place to use for a build -- it's not being updated now, and we left it while there were some large code shufflings. 07:32:24 Is 4.2.5 enough? 07:32:38 I don't follow plt closely. 07:33:02 Yes, 4.2.5 is better. 07:33:24 Also what OS. 07:33:31 s/\./?/ 07:33:55 NetBSD/i386 (5.99.24 afair, sec). 07:34:12 NetBSD 5.99.27 i386 07:34:31 (IIRC, BSDs tend to suffer from excessive stack protection...) 07:34:39 s/stack/data/ 07:34:48 No ASLR there. 07:34:58 I have no idea what ASLR is. 07:35:26 How is it called otherwise? 07:35:29 PaX? 07:35:46 I think it stands for address space layout randomization 07:36:38 Which ensures that memory has different layout everytime (which should break many exploits that depend on memory locations of functions and such) 07:36:46 pax rings a bell; I don't think that there were issues with space randomization, but I know almost nothing about bsd. 07:37:22 Just how slow is the net today! 07:37:33 7.29 07:37:36 I'll return in half an hour. 07:37:51 ETA is 25 min anyway. 07:38:06 yikes 07:39:05 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:41:15 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 07:41:55 masm [~masm@bl7-36-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 07:44:53 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:06:07 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 08:09:50 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 08:20:23 Hm. 08:20:38 It has taken off on NetBSD/i386. 08:21:22 taken off? 08:22:00 Yeah, I've seen mred window. 08:22:29 What did you do? 08:23:37 I've started it from build tree. 08:25:39 So all that's needed is a package update? 08:26:04 Update? 08:26:11 There's no plt-scheme package yet. 08:26:35 huh? 08:26:45 There's lang/mzscheme and lang/drscheme 08:26:50 Ah. 08:26:52 I thought that was what segfaulted 08:26:53 Well... 08:27:03 lang/drscheme should be renamed. 08:27:09 Why? 08:27:16 eli asked that. 08:27:47 But why? 08:27:51 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 08:28:22 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:28:28 drscheme is the IDE isn't it? 08:28:42 With mzscheme being the CLI REPL 08:28:52 I don't remember details. 08:29:03 I thought PLT scheme was more of an umbrella name for all that's under their project 08:29:14 Even their website still mentions DrScheme 08:29:40 What I really don't like in all this, is that 08:30:06 a) build system is building something during installation phase; 08:30:15 o_O 08:30:16 b) installation phase pollutes ${HOME}. 08:30:21 o_O² 08:30:56 I can share my local package and you'll see yourself. 08:31:00 No thanks! 08:32:55 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:33:22 Also, shouldn't that be lang/racket? :P 08:33:28 o_O³ 08:33:35 hehe 08:33:46 wth is "racket"? 08:34:04 There was some talk that PLT will get renamed to racket 08:35:01 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:39 -!- masm [~masm@bl7-36-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:36:17 rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 08:36:29 foof: something like this? 08:36:29 ______ 08:36:29 /| /| 08:36:29 /_|___/ | 08:36:32 masm [~masm@bl7-36-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 08:36:32 | |o_O|_| 08:36:35 |/ | / 08:36:39 |_____|/ 08:36:45 nifty 08:42:10 ASau`: `make install' runs the scheme compilations 08:42:47 And it should only touch your home directory if you have any local planet packages or local .plt-scheme//collects packages that need to be recompiled 08:43:02 Otherwise it should not touch your $HOME. 08:43:43 alvatar [~alvatar@9.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 08:43:47 I don't have any, and it still touches it. 08:43:55 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:59 What did it touch, exactly? 08:44:06 JFYI, I override default HOME to catch this. 08:44:18 What did it touch, exactly? 08:44:46 It created .plt-scheme with something html or http related inside. 08:44:55 Details will follow in minutes. 08:44:59 No need. 08:45:17 You're building from svn/git, right? 08:45:35 I did before. 08:45:50 Right now I'm building 4.2.5 following your advice. 08:46:06 Do you mean you converted to git? 08:46:32 If you're building from the 4.2.5 source, it should not do anything in your home directory. 08:46:46 Alright, we'll see. 08:47:05 If you build from the repo, then there is one package (handin-server) that has its docs built in your ~/.plt-scheme//doc 08:47:29 (This is for technical reasons, insufficient HTML hacking.) 08:47:35 Yes, we converted to git. 08:47:58 If you look at the svn log, you'll see that it has been suspiciously quiet for a week now. 08:48:26 I didn't look into it for a month at least. 08:48:45 (`svn log' will look for you.) 08:48:46 I told you that I don't follow closely. 08:49:06 I know, this is why I'm tell you that we did. 08:49:24 Otherwise it would be redundant, since it's pretty hard to miss for people who do. 08:53:07 JFYI, installation hasn't finished yet, and dummy home contains this already: 08:53:12 .plt-scheme/ 08:53:12 .plt-scheme/4.2.5 08:53:12 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc 08:53:12 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/places 08:53:15 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/places/out.sxref 08:53:18 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/places/in.sxref 08:53:22 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/out.sxref 08:53:25 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/in.sxref 08:53:28 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/search 08:53:31 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/search/out.sxref 08:53:35 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/search/in.sxref 08:53:38 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/master-index 08:53:41 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/master-index/out.sxref 08:53:44 .plt-scheme/4.2.5/doc/master-index/in.sxref 08:54:06 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 08:55:32 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:38 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 09:02:29 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:48 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 09:04:24 ASau`: OK, that would be a (distribution) bug. 09:04:43 There're more files appeared there. 09:04:50 I'll send you a list. 09:05:02 If your would `rm -rf' the collects/scribblings/places directory, you'd get what it should have been (=> nothing) 09:05:14 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 09:06:02 There's no need for a list -- if the toplevel directories are "places", "search", and "master-index", then the bug is what I think it is. 09:08:02 http://netbsd.pastebin.com/K0aikBv7 09:08:14 I've made it already :) 09:09:31 Well, like I said, there was no need for that... 09:09:57 The bug is that the directory that I mentioned ("collects/scribblings/places") shouldn't have been included. 09:10:11 Since it is, it builds it and renders the included docs 09:10:15 Remove it at post-extract? 09:10:27 And these docs are installed in your home directory, because they're not intended for distribution. 09:10:52 And once it renders those in your home dir, it also renders a user-local version of the search page, and the master-index page. 09:10:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:10:55 -!- jao [~jao@6.Red-88-18-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:10:58 Which is why those appeared too. 09:11:15 So yes -- if you remove it after your unpack the archive, you shouldn't see anything there. 09:11:43 But since you already built it, you can simply `rm -rf' that directory, as well as $HOME/.plt-scheme 09:11:59 Alright. 09:12:06 Thanks for correction. :) 09:12:15 (I.e, you'd care to retry only if you're doing something like packaging some bsd distribution, or something like that.) 09:12:43 In any case, I've mailed the responsible people, and it should be fixed soon (not that it would make any difference for you with 4.2.5). 09:13:11 Nice. 09:13:28 Time to check whether mz-* contains the same bug. 09:13:29 FWIW, this is all temporary -- because the "places" feature is not ready yet. 09:13:39 But it should be done soon. 09:13:56 (It's another strategy for splitting your code to work on multiple cores.) 09:14:11 Yes, the mzscheme package will have the same probelm -- I can tell you that. 09:14:22 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 09:15:42 Alright. 09:16:48 ASau`: ... and I got a reply and fixed it (http://git.plt-racket.org/plt/commit/4fe535) 09:24:11 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 09:24:15 lazz0 [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 09:24:45 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:45 lazii [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 09:47:50 -!- lazz0 [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:45 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:48:57 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 09:56:27 -!- foof [~user@lain.inunome.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:19 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 10:11:37 jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:26:12 Hm. Weird. 10:26:27 It works on 2 of 4 platforms I have access to. 10:27:07 Could it be that it wanted newer libGL? 10:28:35 I'm lost. 10:28:47 What is Common Scheme name in "choose language"? 10:38:20 hey im reading this book about scheme and im having trouble understanding what this is doing 10:38:25 ((null? lat) #f) 10:38:51 so in scheme, when you have something in the form of ((something) (something)) 10:39:00 or lets say ... 10:39:04 ((a) (b)) 10:39:15 it computes (a), and if its true, then compute (b)? 10:42:34 eli: PLT Scheme virtual machine has run out of memory; aborting 10:43:02 eli: 128 M is problematic limit, since it is pretty large at start. 10:46:04 ASau`: That depends on what you want to do inside that limit; if you want to run setup-plt to compile the PLT tree, then it's very likely to be too small. 10:46:30 eli: it dumps core after (* 2 2) 10:46:43 on the second expression. 10:46:47 ComputerNewbie: You're probably reading the little schemer -- you should read the explanation on `cond'. 10:47:03 ASau`: Did you run setup plt so you have all the files compiled? 10:47:33 Do you mean I should do it as regular user after I have installed the package? 10:47:45 eli ok let me try it 10:48:03 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:10 ASau`: You should run the compilation without the 128mb restriction so you have all the files compiled. 10:48:24 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 10:48:36 Otherwise, it will still work -- but it will read all the file sources, expand them, compile them, generate the jit code, and then run that. 10:48:59 How do I turn this limit off? 10:49:16 And since just the `scheme' collection is pretty big (you should think of it as something that is included in the core), then that's a lot of code to shuffle around. 10:49:27 If you're interested, here's backtrace: 10:49:27 #0 0xbb6fcfa7 in _lwp_kill () from /usr/lib/libc.so.12 10:49:28 #1 0xbb6fcf65 in raise () from /usr/lib/libc.so.12 10:49:30 #2 0xbb6fc73a in abort () from /usr/lib/libc.so.12 10:49:33 I don't know -- it depends on your shell (and perhaps on BSD). 10:49:34 #3 0x08153733 in scheme_out_of_memory_abort () 10:49:37 #4 0x082cccf1 in out_of_memory () 10:49:37 #5 0x082d205a in malloc_dirty_pages () 10:49:40 #6 0x082d303e in allocate_big () 10:49:43 #7 0x080c1cc2 in GC_malloc_accounting_shadow () 10:49:46 #8 0x08093d9f in wxBitmap::Create () 10:49:50 #9 0x08093fa2 in wxBitmap::gcInit_wxBitmap () 10:49:52 (There's no need for that -- it already told you what's the probelm.) 10:49:53 #10 0x080f4227 in os_wxBitmap_ConstructScheme () 10:49:55 #11 0x0817ec0b in scheme_do_eval () 10:49:58 #12 0x080c10ba in init_prim_obj () 10:50:01 #13 0x0817ec0b in scheme_do_eval () 10:50:05 #14 0x081802fe in _scheme_apply_multi_from_native () 10:50:08 #15 0xbb0f0d35 in ?? () 10:50:11 #16 0xba84df60 in ?? () 10:50:17 Why isn't it done at build time? 10:50:33 You should define "it" and "build time". 10:51:22 Narrenschiff [~ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 10:51:25 Build time is the time after I've typed "make". 10:51:39 "it" is what you're suggesting to build. 10:52:15 I don't have 128M limit, that's not my invention. 10:52:26 the part about cond says it would run the next question if the first question is false 10:52:31 it didnt tell me what would happen if its true 10:52:39 but im assuming if its cond.. and then ((a) (b)) 10:52:47 it would compute (a) if its true, it would compute (b) 10:53:46 ASau`: I'm guess that you really mean by "build time" is what happens *during* the "make" run -- if this is correct, then "make" builds only the C core -- "make install" will install this core and proceed to compile the Scheme files. 10:54:09 That's part "a" what I don't like in PLT scheme. 10:54:14 It violates rules. 10:54:34 I have no idea which rules you refer to; I certainly don't know any such rules. 10:54:36 "make install" should only copy files (basically). 10:54:57 As for the 128mb restriction, unless you have a machine with only 128mb, you have something that sets that limit, so you should find how you can unset it. 10:54:59 Go to GNU, go to BSD, the rule is the same here and there. 10:55:19 I don't have 128 MB restriction. 10:55:46 Again, I've never seen such rules -- if there are any, then the obvious solution would be to rename the "install" target. 10:56:02 so what happens when you have (cond ((a) (b)) (else ... 10:56:21 where a can be something like (null? blah) 10:56:28 b can be something like #f 10:56:31 or #t 10:56:54 ComputerNewbie: What you said earlier -- it will first evaluate (a), and if the result is true the it will evaluate and return (b); otherwise it will proceed to the `else' expression. 10:56:58 syntax error 10:57:06 eli ahh ok 10:57:17 incubot: (#f) 10:57:17 Error: call of non-procedure: #f 10:57:21 and this form goes hand in hand with (cond? 10:58:03 if you dont have a cond, then just having ((a) (b)) , this wouldnt compute (a) and if true, evaluate and return (b) right? 10:58:17 ASau`: In case it wasn't clear, I wasn't arguing for the sake of arguing; if you know about such rules, then a pointer would be appreciated -- "go to GNU" is too generic to find anything concrete. 10:59:21 See "7.2.6 Standard Targets for Users" in GNU coding standards. 10:59:27 http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/ 10:59:33 *sladegen* lols. 11:00:35 but who cares about gnu... 11:00:38 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:45 In BSD this rule is more strict. 11:01:01 bsd is dead... ;) 11:01:19 ASau`: That page says: "If possible ..." 11:01:42 eli: what makes it impossible or very hard? 11:02:11 ASau`: And later on, note that it says "The way to install Info files is to copy them [...], and then run [...]" 11:02:50 This is part to rebuild index. 11:03:06 It doesn't change files you're installing. 11:03:13 I know, but still, it's not restricted to "copying files". 11:03:25 The plt "install" doesn't change any files either. 11:04:03 Re "impossible of very hard" -- it's obviously not hard, since a trivial "fix" would be to rename the "install" goal as something like "make-scheme". 11:04:31 The question is what would you expect "make" to do -- currently, that does all the C compilation. 11:04:42 Sorry? 11:04:59 make make-scheme... that sounds gay. 11:05:00 "make install" calls only install(1) and mtree(8). 11:05:47 ASau`: I don't know what that refers to (that page doesn't mention "mtree", and I don't have such a man page.) 11:06:55 Nothing is built during install phase in BSDs. 11:06:57 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #scheme 11:07:20 ASau`: In any case, the difficulty in compiling the Scheme sources and then copying them is that this means that they would be written into the PLT tree, not into the build directory. So doing that would break people who expect a plain "make" to only put stuff in the build directory. 11:07:25 Anyway, the main question is what you propose to avoid 128M limit. 11:07:45 guessing from the name mtree is like 'mkdir -p' on stereids... 11:08:00 No. 11:08:05 steoreids... 11:08:09 Better read man page, it isn't long. 11:08:11 sladegen: I'd guess that it something like "install" on linux. 11:08:55 -!- jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:10 ASau`: re "what you propose to avoid 128M limit" -- I don't know what limit you're talking about; earlier you said "I don't have 128 MB restriction." 11:09:37 eli: yes, I don't have 128 MB restriction. 11:09:49 It is restriction you put into drscheme. 11:09:58 So my proposal to avoid the 128 is "do nothing". 11:10:10 which causes core dump after simple (* 2 2) 11:10:13 DrScheme doesn't have a 128mb restriction. 11:10:43 PLT Scheme virtual machine has run out of memory; aborting 11:10:43 [1] Abort trap (core dumped) drscheme 11:11:05 It is somewhere there deep inside it. :) 11:11:22 ASau`: That happens when the OS doesn't give mzscheme memory. 11:11:44 So at that point mzscheme can do nothing except print some quick test and kill itself. 11:11:45 Does it ask more than 2,5 GB? 11:11:49 No. 11:12:40 Then you're doing something wrong. 11:12:41 Trying out a 4.2.5 run of drscheme (and doing nothing in it), I have the process at 404mb virtual memory, and 227 res. 11:13:16 Given that the only thing I did was to type in "drscheme", and given that it works, I can't see what's wrong here. 11:13:31 firefox is able to ask 3 GB of virtual memory on similar system. 11:14:17 It prings "Language: scheme; memory limit: 128 MB." 11:14:28 That is unrelated. 11:14:39 That limit is for running user code *inside* drscheme. 11:14:47 grof [~29b85437@gateway/web/freenode/x-tvslrqlzzomhpwdo] has joined #scheme 11:14:59 Once that limit is reached, drscheme will tell you about it and ask if you want to increase the limit. 11:17:13 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 11:17:34 (make-list (* 1024 1024) 0) resulted in crash with no questions. 11:18:26 Right -- you're reaching some kind of OS limit, this has nothing to do with the 128mb limit that drscheme shows. 11:19:33 time(seconds) unlimited 11:19:33 file(blocks) unlimited 11:19:33 data(kbytes) 262144 11:19:33 stack(kbytes) 2048 11:19:35 coredump(blocks) unlimited 11:19:38 memory(kbytes) 2046596 11:19:42 locked memory(kbytes) 682198 11:19:45 process(processes) 160 11:19:48 -!- grof [~29b85437@gateway/web/freenode/x-tvslrqlzzomhpwdo] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:19:48 nofiles(descriptors) 128 11:19:51 vmemory(kbytes) unlimited 11:19:54 sbsize(bytes) unlimited 11:19:58 Which one? 11:21:25 ASau`: I don't know -- maybe those memory or locked memory limits, or maybe its some problem with the memory randomization thing. 11:22:09 In any case, I have an exam to write in <1hr, so if you ask on the mailing list you'll probably get a more effective answer than what I can say. 11:22:23 Alright. 11:22:30 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:29 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 11:30:56 nurv [nurv@83.231.90.107] has joined #scheme 11:31:21 Hi. 11:41:15 xwl [~user@123.115.127.250] has joined #scheme 11:44:18 sphex [~nobody@modemcable014.10-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 11:45:26 -!- sphex_ [~nobody@modemcable014.10-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:48:24 -!- rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:48:24 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 11:49:16 Maxel [~Maxel@97-90-238-123.dhcp.eucl.wi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 11:49:24 I think that I'm hitting the same bug as earlier. 11:49:46 I have seen this pepsi logo once. 11:50:13 Now I can pass a bit past it, still result is the same. 11:55:54 -!- nurv is now known as nurv|afk 11:57:50 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #scheme 11:59:14 MononcQc [~ftrottier@207.253.180.96] has joined #scheme 12:00:49 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:11 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 12:05:55 (make-list (* 1024 1024) 0) resulted in a beautiful list full of zeroes 12:06:35 I suspect that it plays bad with mprotect. 12:07:42 744 virt 707 res 12:08:05 757 / 724 .. done 12:08:33 what is this operator do <>? 12:08:35 what does* 12:08:53 Compares. 12:08:58 not equal? 12:09:07 ahh i see 12:09:09 thanks 12:09:18 im too use to != being not equal 12:09:20 :p 12:09:22 ComputerNewbie: in what context? 12:09:26 drscheme has become really slow 12:09:35 lens got the right contex 12:09:39 context* 12:09:44 cant type for sh*t tonight 12:10:44 inhortte [polaris@fucksheep.org] has joined #scheme 12:10:47 how 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[~RageOfTho@users-33-197.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 16:25:38 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 16:30:03 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:31:17 incubut: would you tell me a joke? 16:31:24 -!- samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:31:26 incubot: would you tell me a joke? 16:31:30 that's worse than my periodic "many men cannot commit" joke on #svn 16:37:37 samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:41:02 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 16:42:33 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:37 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.90.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:43:00 -!- cky [~cky@h-166-165-159-16.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Quit: Grrr to crappy Internet connections.] 16:43:30 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 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Connection timed out] 17:18:05 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 17:25:31 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:26:56 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 17:43:48 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58:56 incubot: would you tell me another one? 17:58:59 Another quarter is Riastradh talking. 18:00:17 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:04:08 -!- nurv|afk is now known as nurv 18:08:02 -!- rapopp [~gobinau@maxcarony.eastcentral.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:36 choas [~lars@p5B0DC5D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:17:01 cky [~cky@h-166-165-226-187.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 18:19:51 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 18:21:17 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:31:29 -!- kenjin2201 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REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:43:51 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 20:46:21 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:47:43 Kaedenn [~Kaedenn@unaffiliated/kaedenn] has joined #scheme 20:48:38 I'm trying to read a fairly massive file (/usr/share/dict/words) into memory, yet my program is stack-overflowing pretty regularly. What should I do/read? 20:49:08 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@CPE0013f7bc6820-CM0013f7bc681c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:53:40 andreer [andreer@2001:700:300:1900:20b:cdff:fedb:de39] has joined #scheme 20:53:42 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:54:46 Can i compile my programs to standalone binaries with MIT Scheme? 21:00:03 MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:02:51 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 21:05:10 -!- Kaedenn [~Kaedenn@unaffiliated/kaedenn] has left #scheme 21:17:51 andreer: The closest I've seen to a static compiler that generates standalone binaries is Stalin, but I've never used it, so can't vouch for it. 21:19:24 marcob [~marco@host132-69-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 21:20:06 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20:34 Nils^ [steele@beegees.mtveurope.org] has joined #scheme 21:21:44 hi people. (Using Guile:) Is there a fast way to do char->number ? I'm expecting only the chars #\0 to #\6 but I need to list-ref a list with these values as numbers. 21:25:29 Nils, either do (string->number (string the-char)) or (- (char->integer the-char) (char->integer #\0)) 21:25:39 you might want to wrap it in a function 21:27:17 or write and use your own function that checks and tranforms only those chars... 21:27:46 case var (#\0.... ? :) 21:27:49 or you could do that :) 21:28:34 IJP: "string the char" with? there is no char->string, isn't there? 21:29:10 no, you just use the `string' function 21:29:13 incubot: (list->string '(\0)) 21:29:13 Error: (list->string) bad argument type - not a character: |\\0| 21:29:23 ah yes, of course. such basic thing...sorry 21:29:26 *sladegen* erms. 21:29:35 incubot: (list->string '(#\0)) 21:29:35 0 21:29:50 incubot: (string #\0) 21:29:50 0 21:30:27 those damn number come as strings in the first place, thats the whole problem. But I see no other way to calculate with base7 21:31:21 base 7? why? 21:32:31 I'm dealing with musical notation which is base7 21:32:36 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TEN.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:32:54 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DC5D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:55 -!- rup [Rupert@deathcoil.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:33:12 I thought and tried since january on very basic problems. Basic for a human. I do the tasks in one second I could not solve with my computer in month. and yesterday I finally realized that its all possible with base7 21:33:23 if the numbers come as strings already, I believe that string->number takes an optional radix argument 21:33:49 (well I'm an experienced musician but not an experienced programmer, that may be a reason, too) 21:34:02 IJP: yes, I'm using (string->number "100" 7) all the time 21:34:16 I wrote a complete subsystem to calculate 21:34:32 Base 7? I thought it was an *oct*ave with *eight* notes? 21:34:42 incubot: (string->number "17" 7) 21:34:42 #f 21:34:45 no, the eight one is the first one again 21:34:51 I've never understood why musical notes are so complex... what's wrong with just specifying the frequency in Hz? 21:34:52 Ah, I see 21:34:54 sladegen: there is no 17 in base7 21:35:01 oops 21:35:05 incubot: (string->number "16" 7) 21:35:05 13 21:35:07 0-6 21:35:22 meant to write 6, heh. 21:35:24 alaricsp: thats a very complex topic. 21:35:34 So I gather ;-) 21:35:38 Note that anything other than 2, 8, 10, 16 as the radix arg to `string->number' is nonstandard 21:35:50 but was anticipating 55 anyway ;) 21:35:55 But if 7 works in your impl, righteous 21:36:39 the guile people told me that even after decades of programming those baseX things still have bugs because they are so hard to deal with 21:38:42 -!- marcob [~marco@host132-69-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: marcob] 21:38:52 you are lucky, anyway, since r5rs doesn't specify any old radix. 21:38:56 Also, the correct answer to "Why does the diatonic scale have seven notes?" is "Go ask your father," then to look very busy 21:38:57 Meh, it's fairly exhaustively unit-testable... 21:39:27 Daemmerung: actually, I can explain all this. But to tell a computer is much more complicated... 21:40:20 Nils^: excellent, I lack the patience for anything other than handwaving 21:41:08 btw. I just got accepted as Google Summer of Code student to do a project entirely in Scheme. 21:41:27 Well done, Nils^ :-) 21:41:31 *Daemmerung* applauds 21:41:46 Wow. Congrats indeed. 21:42:25 It was a good thing that it needs more musical knowledge than scheme knowledge :) 21:42:40 -!- snarkyboojum [~snarkyboo@110-174-43-105.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: snarkyboojum] 21:42:42 What's the project? If you don't mind me asking that is 21:42:58 http://www.denemo.org 21:43:35 C+Guile 21:43:39 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 21:43:45 works pretty well 21:45:41 very nice 21:46:21 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/dj_jeezy.jpg] 21:48:27 That is indeed worthy. 21:49:20 I haven't copied a score in over a score of years, but I can feel the hand cramps as if it was only yesterday. 21:50:05 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-162-12-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:51:40 SUCCESS! three month (not constantly) of thinking resolved in two days of work! The second complex scheme program I wrote since the Mediawiki API 21:51:44 :) 21:54:23 eventhough you don't know what I mean, I just wanted to tell my joy. 21:55:10 alistair [~alistair@host86-180-16-151.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 21:57:45 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:45 turbofail [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:59:50 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:05 Nils^: looks great. 22:06:09 rup [Rupert@deathcoil.net] has joined #scheme 22:07:44 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:08:03 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 22:08:11 nurv: thanks 22:10:20 does it play the scores? 22:10:36 nurv: yes 22:11:01 not to every detail... 22:11:42 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:11:57 I need to sleep a bit. good night. 22:12:34 Have fun. :) 22:17:09 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 22:17:10 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 22:17:14 -!- mejja [~user@c-35bce555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 22:19:52 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-208.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:23:30 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-197.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:01 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:28:45 -!- turbofail [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #scheme 22:32:25 elibarzilay [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:32:41 -!- elibarzilay [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:49 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:33:33 doc_who [~doc_who@c-98-231-201-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:33:36 hello 22:37:58 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.90.107] has quit [] 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