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00:56:01 <foof> wow, the guile list is hoppin'
00:56:20 <arcfide> Really?
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00:57:50 <foof> possibly only just now because tl is trolling :/
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02:06:05 <foof> oh wait, that post was on the emacs list :)
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02:37:31 <zbigniew> (fmt #f (fmt-unicode (wrap-lines (string #\u2026))))   ;=> Error: utf8 trailing char overflow
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02:43:07 <foof> zbigniew: what does (string #\u2026) return?
02:46:12 <foof> it fails for me
02:47:04 <foof> fmt-unicode is counting actual unicode graphemes, so i think it's correct to signal an error on invalid utf8
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02:49:08 <arcfide> foof: Is that means to be an x instead of a u?
02:50:21 <foof> arcfide: no, that's the chicken syntax
02:50:34 <arcfide> Oh, weird.
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02:53:28 <foof> arcfide: why weird?
02:56:10 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176219018.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
02:56:40 <arcfide> 'u' isn't something I would expect to see.
02:56:54 <arcfide> o, x, b, those I expect. Maybe d.
02:57:14 <arcfide> When I see 'u' I think unsigned.
02:57:40 <foof> u is for unicode
02:58:21 <foof> which the character _is_, it's just the default `string' procedure which doesn't handle unicode chars correctly
02:59:02 <arcfide> That's weird too. I would normally expect that the characters would use the same character set.
02:59:54 <arcfide> I guess, when I see a letter like that next to a number, I expect it to indicate the numeric radix instead of the "set" of the character.
02:59:59 <foof> you need to (use utf8) to get unicode aware chicken
03:00:13 <arcfide> Hrm, I see.
03:00:22 <foof> which is chicken's way of doing things - everything is modular
03:00:41 <foof> arcfide: if you've read enough unicode docs, U+NNNN becomes very natural-looking
03:00:43 *arcfide* twitches an eyebrow.
03:01:21 <arcfide> Oh, and speaking of which, I had some further discussion of StringRepresentation with my Unicode aware colleagues. They had some interesting insights, and I hope to get those out to the group soon.
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03:02:48 <foof> arcfide: i hack unicode in my sleep, don't make appeals to authority over me on that subject :)
03:03:16 <arcfide> I'm not trying to make any appeals to authority, I'm just making an appeal that this guy knows more than I do.
03:04:36 <arcfide> foof: BTW, it's rather annoying not to have the WWW subdomain active for synthcode.com.
03:04:58 <zbigniew> foof: I've already (use utf8) there -- it was shorthand so I didn't have to type unicode in the channel
03:05:02 <foof> arcfide: why? o_O
03:05:18 <foof> zbigniew: OK
03:05:20 <zbigniew> foof: (fmt-unicode (wrap-lines ...)) fails on any valid unicode string as far as I can tell
03:05:32 <arcfide> foof: Because I always prefix my domains with www if I'm trying to get to the web service.
03:05:39 <foof> zbigniew: that's new, i'll look into it
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03:07:14 <zbigniew> foof: also, (fmt #f (wrap-lines ...)) completely screws up unicode chars it seems; i can understand an incorrect line width, but the outputted bytes are totally wrong.  odd
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03:12:27 <zbigniew> here's an example of correct output
03:12:37 <zbigniew> csi -R fmt -p '(fmt #f "abc" (##sys#char->utf8-string #\ufb01) "def")'|xxd
03:12:38 <zbigniew> 0000000: 6162 63ef ac81 6465 660a
03:12:49 <zbigniew> and incorrect output
03:12:57 <zbigniew> csi -R fmt -p '(fmt #f (wrap-lines "abc" (##sys#char->utf8-string #\ufb01) "def"))'|xxd
03:13:01 <zbigniew> 0000000: 6162 63ef ac20 6465 660a 0a
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03:14:08 <zbigniew> i assume the normal wrapper is considering certain bytes outside of ascii range as pure whitespace?  anyway just pointing that out
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03:20:37 <foof> zbigniew: the unicode stuff was written for very old chicken
03:20:52 <foof> i only just updated it enough so that it would compile, haven't really used it recently
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03:24:59 <zbigniew> foof: i'm thinking that if wrap-lines restricted whitespace to #\space, #\tab and #\newline bytes, then even non-unicode wrap-lines would output correctly, simply with ragged line width
03:25:29 <zbigniew> as it is, output is obliterated
03:32:59 <foof> zbigniew: wrap-lines _is_ restricted to #\space, #\tab, since it uses chicken's string-tokenize internally
03:34:18 <zbigniew> oh, that's right
03:35:08 <zbigniew> let me look at it then, I cannot understand why valid bytes are being converted to whitespace
03:35:15 <foof> well, srfi-13 tokenize, so if unicode is getting garbled then that's the culprit
03:37:54 <zbigniew> yep, confirmed it's string-tokenize
03:40:29 <zbigniew> string-tokenize does not split at whitespace, it splits at non-token-character
03:40:41 <offby1> curse that srfi-13
03:40:45 <offby1> that's some srfi, that srfi-22
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03:43:17 <zbigniew> the proper call appears to be
03:43:18 <zbigniew> (string-tokenize str (char-set-complement char-set:whitespace))
03:43:29 <zbigniew> kinda silly
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03:44:17 <zbigniew> in chicken one can instead use (string-split str)
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03:45:34 <zbigniew> foof: i will hack the fmt egg to use string-split (only on chicken) unless you have a better solution (such as using the srfi-14 charset complement)
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03:49:39 <zbigniew> keep on token
03:50:36 <offby1`> Don't
03:50:38 <offby1`> bogart
03:50:39 <offby1`> that
03:50:41 <offby1`> whitespace
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03:57:05 <zbigniew> leggo my &eggo;
03:59:12 <offby1> How about a nice Hawaiian Punch®?
03:59:40 <Quadrescence> I want some Hawaiian Punch®.
03:59:53 -!- copumpkin is now known as Hawaiian
03:59:57 *Hawaiian* punches Quadrescence 
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04:00:21 <Quadrescence> tasty
04:00:26 -!- Hawaiian is now known as copumpkin
04:00:33 <zbigniew> you got acute accent in my e
04:00:34 <Quadrescence> you can see the crimson fluid coming out of my mouth
04:00:58 <zbigniew> you got e in my acute accent!
04:01:08 <zbigniew> ok i'm tapped
04:01:39 *offby1* had considered the Reese's line earlier
04:01:46 *offby1* glances around nervously.
04:01:52 <offby1> "These cards are marked".
04:01:56 <offby1> "They are MESSED!"
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04:03:13 <Quadrescence> Reese's Pieces®
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04:40:51 <foof> zbigniew: theoretically the default string-tokenize is what i want, but it doesn't handle unicode in chicken, so i'll just change it to non-whitespace
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04:48:46 <zbigniew> foof: isn't that true for any system that has unicode support turned off though?
04:50:28 <foof> well, in those cases you shouldn't have non-ASCII chars :)
04:51:17 <zbigniew> well, i thought a major selling point of utf8 is in transparency to ascii systems
04:52:10 <offby1> well, for ASCII characters, it's got the same encoding; but not for non-ASCII characters
04:52:36 <foof> zbigniew: it is, and that's why string parsing works best specifying the delimiters, not the token constituents
04:52:58 <zbigniew> foof: precisely, that's why i think string-tokenize is dumb
04:53:07 <foof> i hate SRFI-13, and in particular the choice to provide string-tokenize and not string-split, but it's what i'm stuck with if writing portable code
04:53:14 <zbigniew> ok
04:53:52 <foof> well, for this case i may just write my own string-split, but i did make an effort to re-use code in fmt :/
04:54:47 <zbigniew> you're right though that due to the way utf8 is implemented in chicken we cannot easily pull in the unicode-compliant string-tokenize when needed, and /that/ is chicken-specific
05:01:18 <zbigniew> oh, forgot if i mentioned, but i had to disable the compiled version of mantissa+exponent because many fp tests were failing, i did not investigate further
05:09:15 <foof> that code's a mess
05:09:33 <foof> dybvig's algorithm doesn't work w/o exact rationals
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05:09:58 <foof> wait... that should have nothing to do w/ mantissa+exponent...
05:12:45 <zbigniew> no, i think something is just wrong with the C implementation; the scheme one passes all tests
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05:31:27 <foof> but it worked before :/
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07:20:58 <zbigniew> foof: maybe in chicken 3, or early chicken 4, or something--but I know it's been broken for quite a while
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07:26:12 <gnomon> Nice post on emacs-devel, wingo.
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07:35:07 <chandler> Emacs is fungible?
07:35:21 <chandler> I wouldn't exactly say that.
07:37:32 <chandler> But yes, a good email. Let's see what comes of it!
07:38:03 <chandler> If GNU Emacs can be the Emacs with a sensible extension language I've been waiting for, so much the better.
07:41:07 <gnomon> Go  to bed, chandler!
07:41:23 <chandler> Heh. Can't. Work will eat me.
07:41:47 <gnomon> The good kind of work, I hope?  You're not biting off all your fingernails these days?
07:42:29 <chandler> No, it's definitely nail-biting right now.
07:42:36 <gnomon> Eek!
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07:52:39 <foof> chandler: just saves the clippings to sprinkle in your oatmeal!
07:58:14 <elly> wow, wingo's email...
07:58:19 *elly* just found and read it
07:58:24 <elly> I should learn to use emacs.
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08:17:32 <R3cur51v3> NOOOO
08:17:39 <R3cur51v3> vim >> emacs
08:17:44 <R3cur51v3> actually I don't know
08:17:53 <R3cur51v3> although I do know that vim is generally awesome
08:18:30 <elly> paredit-mode.
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09:02:44 <Axioplase_> paredit mode is indeed great.
09:03:09 <Axioplase_> I use surround.vim all the time. It's not paredit, but it is still very very convenient.
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14:22:53 <Daemmerung> incubot: we are privileged to have traces of his code... and his ethereal presence here on this list
14:22:57 <incubot> the PowerPC has 32 general-purpose registers, 32 floating-point registers, and a number of other special-purpose ones (condition register, link register, count register, floating-point status and control register, XER register (for dealing with overflow), and many more visible only to privileged code).
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15:12:03 <Quadrescence> god this is ugly http://cap-lore.com/MathPhys/Field/finite/PrimPoly
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15:13:00 <gnomon> Everyone knows, but it's impolite to point it out in public.
15:14:04 <offby1> Quadrescence: that's like assembly code with parens
15:14:07 <offby1> or "fingernail clippings"
15:14:40 <Quadrescence> gnomon: erm i meant it's beautiful
15:15:02 *Daemmerung* looks into his oatmeal with dismay
15:17:41 <Quadrescence> Daemmerung: may I see a photo of you
15:17:46 <gnomon> The frequency with which fingernail clippings are associated with oatmeal and vice versa never ceases to make my stomach churn, ever so slightly.  I *like* oatmeal, and damn you all for attempting to poison the experience!
15:18:06 <sjamaan> heh
15:18:10 <sjamaan> Blame Larry
15:18:19 <Daemmerung> Quadrescence: only if you join the website as a Premium member
15:18:21 <gnomon> Daemmerung does not show up in photographs - like vampies, or Fraggles.
15:18:39 <gnomon> -1s/pies /pires /
15:19:08 <Daemmerung> and, yeah, that code is so ugly that I'd pull a piece of Perl over it when company comes over
15:20:08 <Daemmerung> shave its ass and train it to eval backwards
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15:39:16 *Daemmerung* is still chuckling at "vampies"
15:40:32 <Daemmerung> having waded through the Kindle SF/F bestseller list yesterday evening.  it is infested with vampies.
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15:50:42 <offby1> How come we don't have any vampire lawyers?  Seems like the ideal profession
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15:53:01 *gnomon* imagines a new Phoenix Wright game penned by Stephanie Meyer
15:53:08 *gnomon* shudders in horror
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16:15:31 <leppie> hmmm
16:16:16 <leppie> offby1: sharks not cool enough?
16:18:46 <cky> leppie: Nah, sharks have jumped the shark. *rimshot*
16:19:57 *leppie* is not how shark porn fits into this, but ok :)
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16:20:09 <leppie> not sure how
16:20:14 <cky> leppie: It's not a reference to shark porn. :-P
16:20:22 <cky> leppie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
16:20:55 <leppie> o lol
16:21:01 <leppie> zee fonzzz!
16:21:11 <Daemmerung> scary Mary-Sue vampire shark lawyer fashion models
16:21:12 <cky> Hehehehehe.
16:21:14 <leppie> i remember seeing something about that once
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16:21:41 <leppie> the scene was so totally fake if I recall
16:23:09 <cky> Hehehehe.
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17:42:13 <enquora> is there an actively developed and robust imap or pop3 library that works with gmail?
17:53:40 <cky> enquora: There's nothing special about Gmail; any software that supports IMAP should, to my knowledge, work with Gmail.
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17:53:59 <cky> enquora: It does need to support SSL, but that's a function of your socket library, rather than the IMAP library. :-P
17:54:44 <enquora> cky: I'm long away from the Scheme/Lisp world, and unfortunately, Googling 'scheme imap' doesn't return the sort of results I'm interested. wondering where to look.
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17:55:53 <enquora> cky: and I can't be writing an imap implementation myself - I've already tried half a dozen languages that are breaking while parsing random message :-(
17:56:13 <samth> enquora, plt scheme provides an imap library
17:56:20 <Daemmerung> imap doesn't parse messages....
17:56:38 <samth> enquora, http://docs.plt-scheme.org/net/imap.html
17:57:54 <enquora> most of the libraries out there are, indeed, parsing into some sort of structure. That's really what I need, rather than just traversing the mailbox. I'll take a look at the plt implementation. I'm hoping to use Gambit, if I can find something
17:58:30 <enquora> thks.
18:01:06 copumpkin [~copumpkin@dhcp-212-228.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme
18:03:20 <Daemmerung> The top-ranked Google hit for `gambit scheme smtp' was "SMTP/POP3 Email Engine for COBOL Email from your (Fujitsu) COBOL application."  Ouch.  I am sorry.
18:06:35 Narrenschiff [~ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme
18:07:57 <Daemmerung> Gauche has a RFC822 parser.  MIT Scheme has something called IMAIL.
18:08:35 <Daemmerung> I seem to remember Ria hacking the latter a few years ago.
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18:16:05 <gnomon> foof has also hacked together a pretty awesome mail tool, but I believe he develops under Chicken rather than Gambit.
18:16:41 <gnomon> cky, unfortunately that's a widely held misconception: Gmail breaks several IMAP RFCs, to the vocal rage of those who actively support the standard.
18:18:23 <gnomon> Daemmerung, and actually the partial message primitives supported by IMAP *do* require the server to be able to parse the messages, so as to be able to offer the ability to selectively download certain headers, or message bodies without requiring the client to also snarf enormous binary attachments except on demand (Blackberry and Symbian devices use this to great advantage; check out the Lemonade Profile RFC).
18:18:44 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:18:51 <gnomon> foof's mail suite is called Hato: http://synthcode.com/scheme/hato/
18:19:27 <Daemmerung> gnomon: I was assuming client
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18:20:32 <gnomon> Daemmerung, ah, sorry.
18:22:23 <Daemmerung> and I did not know about the "fetch" aspect of hato-- I figured it was "only" a MTA.
18:23:21 <gnomon> The really impressive part about hato is http://synthcode.com/scheme/hato/doc/hato-manual-Z-H-7.html
18:23:53 *Daemmerung* boggles
18:24:31 <Daemmerung> I believe I feel the onset of the vapors.
18:24:48 <mario-goulart> Another really impressive part is that it is made in scheme.
18:25:55 <mario-goulart> That's not usual for an application which is not a compiler. :-)
18:25:58 <ventonegro> foof must be a nickname for an army of alien coders
18:26:39 <gnomon> We've all long suspected something along those lines.
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18:31:05 <enquora> gnomon: I might have better luck using POP3. I've been around the language map looking for existing code, and everything seems to break on some number of messages that is smaller than the complete list.
18:32:57 <Daemmerung> Exactly what are you trying to do?
18:33:17 <Daemmerung> Cracking mailboxes isn't exactly cutting edge.
18:34:35 <enquora> I have a database that I need to provide 'mail-in' functionality for. I'm trying to avoid setting up a local smtp daemon, so I'm polling an inbox, parsing the new messages, pushing them to the db, and marking them as read.
18:34:49 *gnomon* boggles
18:34:53 <enquora> I want a REPL, too, so that this can be done ad-hoc
18:35:27 <gnomon> You're trying to avoid setting up a local SMTP daemon, so you write your own fetchmail?
18:35:43 <gnomon> That sounds... unnecessarily complicated.
18:35:55 <Daemmerung> rfc 5465
18:36:28 <enquora> something like that. the local daemon still has the same problem. Postfix will happily hand off a message to an external script, but it's a raw message that needs to be parsed. these have attachments, usually pcitures
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18:37:01 <Daemmerung> So really what you need is a MIME bodypart burster.
18:37:07 <enquora> so the problem is in parsing the message. yes.
18:37:25 <enquora> plain text messages are trivial, and they never fail
18:37:56 <Daemmerung> Can you guarantee that the messages are composed by any particular client?
18:37:57 <enquora> and the posting to db part is trivial, it's a couchdb, and just an http message
18:38:03 <enquora> I wish.
18:38:08 <gnomon> I can't help but think that the mh suite of tools will handle this task pretty well.
18:38:12 <enquora> that's the rub :-(
18:38:26 <enquora> mh?
18:38:34 <Daemmerung> MIME bursting is buggy.  Even Thunderbird occasionally chokes for no apparently reason at all.
18:38:44 <gnomon> enquora, http://rand-mh.sourceforge.net/book/
18:38:53 <Daemmerung> (not to hold up Tbird as some blazing paragon of virtue)
18:38:54 <gnomon> enquora, mh is a very old mail handling system.
18:38:56 <enquora> I'm open to all suggestions. I'm about to go to the dark side and use Java.
18:38:58 <gnomon> Daemmerung, heh.
18:40:24 <enquora> thks. I've been using 'nix since before the first copyright on that book, and haven't come across mh
18:41:35 <Daemmerung> PLT does have MIME parsing libs, though I've never used 'em.  I have managed to avoid email hackery for the last decade, a record I intend to maintain.
18:42:44 <enquora> it's worth a try
18:43:20 <gnomon> enquora, looks like your best bet might be investigating 'mhlist' of the nmh package, and 'showpart' to actually extract the parts in question.
18:43:48 <enquora> the other issue I have is I'll need (eventually) a parser to tease some structure out of the message text. I don't relish trying to debug that outside of a REPL
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18:44:27 <gnomon> enquora, I don't envy your requirement to delve into natural language processing.
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18:45:02 <ecraven> hm.. how does mh-e compare to wanderlust?
18:45:12 <enquora> I don't need to be perfect. just get two-thirds of the stuff reasonably well tagged. Rev. Bayes will probably help me.
18:45:20 <gnomon> I couldn't tell you, since I've never used either.
18:45:36 <Daemmerung> My net experience with PLT has been quite good.  Try it.
18:46:26 <enquora> as I say, I've been long (very long) away from this world, but I'm curious to see what it looks like now. I'll give it a try.
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22:50:37 <foof`> hato will be ported to the WG1 module system when it's finalized
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23:07:20 *elly* giggles at the way #haskell just spawned #haskelgbt in response to a troll
23:08:23 <Adamant> humans + humans = silliness.
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23:08:35 <Adamant> good thing I am a gibbon.
23:08:49 <elly> I am a humanoid
23:08:57 <elly> possibly monstrous
23:09:16 <Adamant> I am the walrus
23:09:23 <Adamant> wait for it
23:09:25 <Adamant> ...
23:09:31 *elly* waits
23:09:32 <Daemmerung> THE HUMANOID MUST NOT ESCAPE
23:09:32 <Adamant> goo goo gajoob!
23:09:42 <elly> Daemmerung: Augh! *flees*
23:09:51 *Daemmerung* bounces ominously
23:10:02 *elly* burrows underground
23:10:32 doc_who [~doc_who@c-98-231-201-176.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
23:10:42 <Daemmerung> Chicken! Fight like a robot!
23:10:47 <doc_who> hello
23:10:58 *foof`* burrows undercovers
23:11:06 <foof`> but i don't wanna go to work mom!
23:11:13 <elly> foof`: you can burrow under my covers any day? ;)
23:11:15 <Adamant> Hi, my name is E. Gibbon. You may remember me from such works as 'Decline and Fall Of The Roman Empire', 'Why Monotheistic Religion Is For Stinky-Pants-Heads', and 'The Purple-Assed Baboon, a Play In Three Acts'
23:11:53 <Adamant> doc_who: you're late. I might even say tardis.
23:11:57 <Adamant> :P
23:12:22 <elly> Adamant: you are forbidden :(
23:12:30 <doc_who> lol
23:12:42 <Adamant> 404, one might say
23:12:59 <Adamant> elly: the pun was that bad? also, which pun was that bad?
23:13:00 <foof`> elly: only if you keep them warm :)
23:13:05 <elly> Adamant: all of them
23:13:08 <foof`> it's freezing in tokyo today
23:13:08 <elly> foof`: that was the idea, hon ;)
23:13:29 <foof`> elly: you're not from baltimore are you?
23:13:38 <elly> not usually
23:14:09 <doc_who> are you foof` ?
23:14:16 <doc_who> oh tokyo
23:14:38 <foof`> "hon" is a typical sentence terminator of the region
23:14:53 <elly> foof`: oh, I acquired that habit from a friend of mine who /is/ from baltimore
23:14:56 <elly> it is not mine, though
23:15:04 <Adamant> 'Belive, hon' is a not-uncommon bumper sticker from the area
23:15:59 <Adamant> it's no 'Welcome To Detroit, Missed You The First Time' with multiple gunshot holes drawn on it, though
23:16:13 <elly> hahahahaha
23:16:15 <elly> that's classy
23:16:41 <Adamant> it's more a statement of irony
23:16:50 <Adamant> ironing, even, one might say
23:17:02 <elly> argh :P
23:17:36 <doc_who> how so?
23:17:59 <Adamant> doc_who: Detroit's crime problem is both very, very real and mythologized
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23:18:59 <Adamant> there are plenty of other towns that have deal with some nasty stuff on the level of Detroit, but not many of them have had the same fall from grace, at least in recent memory
23:19:02 <Adamant> *dealt
23:19:23 <doc_who> i meant the ironing
23:19:29 <doc_who> i get the bullet holes thing
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23:20:03 <Adamant> doc_who: ironing is used when something fits the common definition of irony but not the technical one
23:20:09 <kilimanjaro> I think John Carpenter should make an "Escape from Detroit"
23:20:14 <doc_who> oh
23:20:17 <doc_who> i didnt know that
23:20:25 <doc_who> *checks dictionary*
23:20:29 <Adamant> doc_who: it's not super common usage
23:21:02 <Adamant> doc_who: like, back in the 90's, there was an Alanis Morrissette song about ironic things
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23:21:12 <Adamant> many of which did not fit the technical definition for irony
23:21:16 <Daemmerung> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g09GtnWdBjc
23:21:26 <doc_who> yes yes
23:21:31 <doc_who> i am aware of that
23:21:42 <doc_who> i dont think it used the term "ironing" though
23:22:19 <kilimanjaro> Daemmerung, hahaha
23:22:33 <Adamant> doc_who: yeah, it developed as a response
23:22:46 <Adamant> like I said, it's not super-widespread
23:22:58 <Adamant> it might be on Urban Dictionary though
23:23:05 <Adamant> but the better question is what isn't on there
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23:24:49 <Adamant> Daemmerung: 'I wanted Detroit to win. I've been there, they could use it. It's like God took a shit on a parking lot.' - shitmydadsays Twitter feed
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23:25:44 <Daemmerung> My wife is from Detroit.  Ain't going back.
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23:28:29 *foof`* is originally from Killadelphia
23:28:55 *elly* is originally from Sydney.
23:29:18 <copumpkin> what does "originally from" mean?
23:29:29 <elly> 'born in'
23:29:33 *alaricsp* is from Luton, England, a town with its own violent crime issues
23:29:48 <alaricsp> Yes, "from" might imply where you are living now
23:30:14 <alaricsp> If I was visiting the US, I'd say "I'm in the US, I'm from Gloucestershire in England (which is where I live), and I'm originally from Luton"
23:30:16 <foof`> copumpkin: in my case raised, i was born closer to alaricsp
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23:30:45 <alaricsp> ...if I wanted to differentiate the three
23:31:17 -!- foof` is now known as foof
23:31:17 <lisppaste> Leonidas pasted "breaking hygiene" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97839
23:31:26 <alaricsp> foof: I'm glad hato will be ported to WG1 modules, BTW - but will you wait until there's a working implementation first? :-)
23:31:47 <copumpkin> but someone could be born in timbuktu
23:31:52 <copumpkin> but just because parents were there on holiday
23:31:55 <Adamant> alaricsp: yeah; I just use the nearest big-ish city when describing where I live, as well
23:31:55 <Leonidas> any idea what is happening here? I get some weird procedure in the second case (that one with the let)
23:32:09 <copumpkin> seems like "originally from" should have stronger meaning
23:32:31 <Adamant> copumpkin: I think it's both birth and where you grew up
23:32:36 <Adamant> to some degree
23:32:38 <foof> alaricsp: ideally i want a module system like in chibi, realistically we'll probably have something more like ERR5RS modules
23:32:49 <Adamant> sometime that gets seperated out more
23:32:53 <copumpkin> Adamant: what if they don't coincide though?!
23:33:26 <Adamant> copumpkin: they had a deal for that in boxing, where someone is really from a home city but might have technically been born somewhere else but moved as a kid or whatever
23:33:56 <Adamant> like, Joe Frazier was from somewhere in SC originally but grew up in Philly and is basically from Philly
23:34:13 <copumpkin> yeah, it applies to me
23:34:18 <Adamant> and they announce his location in a certain way
23:34:20 <alaricsp> Module systems seem to be poorly understood
23:34:26 <alaricsp> Intuitively, it should be simple
23:34:44 <alaricsp> But, especially when macros enter the mix, the semantics of namespaces and renaming and so on can be subtle
23:35:03 <alaricsp> I feel I should find some really good practical examples to illustrate the issues, and write about them
23:37:14 <foof> alaricsp: we're now into month 3, i'm going to post to the list planning our next steps this weekend
23:37:26 <foof> but for now, i have to go to work :(
23:37:29 <foof> TGIF!
23:37:42 *foof* trudges off
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23:57:11 <Daemmerung> Leonidas: try (datum->syntax stx `(not ,(syntax->datum #'condition)))
23:58:03 <arcfide> Daemmerung: Um, when would that be useful?
23:58:21 <Daemmerung> arcfide: hell if I know.  His code, not mine
23:59:00 <arcfide> Unless he's got a situation where NOT is not defined in the syntax macro's lexical scope or is bound differently in his call site scope or the like, that's unlikely to be a very useful thing.
23:59:06 *arcfide* hunts the logs.