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If you want to see something that looks like a for loop, well, knock yourself out! 02:53:53 -!- astok [~astok@CPE001346a7260b-CM001225dfe322.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55:53 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176193226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:58:47 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:02:04 chandler, what I was trying to say 03:02:19 is that scheme forces you to think more than other languages when you're designing a loop 03:02:32 at least that is how I feel about it -- it may be that this is just my impression 03:02:48 and, when I say loop, I mean iterations. 03:06:02 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:07:36 -!- MononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 03:09:41 timj__ [~timj@e176208174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:14:13 Does it? 03:15:33 I think the contrary: I do loops without thinking much about it, for I know that tail-recursive looping will not exhaust the stack. In another language, I would have to think about it every time I do recursion. 03:16:31 If the loop shmashes the stack, then it would've happened with any other language 03:18:57 -!- seamus-android [~alistair@host86-178-140-209.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:19:41 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.149.41] has joined #scheme 03:24:31 cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 03:39:13 phao: http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/foof-loop.txt 03:40:34 The beauty of abstraction is the joy of thinking about a problem no more than you want to and no less than it deserves. 03:44:04 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 03:47:20 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.81.40] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 04:12:14 hungrylumberjack [~thelumber@bas3-ottawa10-1279617097.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #scheme 04:14:11 Having some trouble getting an implementation of blackjack to run on SCM #lang it is yelling at me for scope but it works fine on mzscheme 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Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 16:48:06 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 16:52:00 dzhus [~sphinx@95-27-129-178.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:57:47 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:14 phao [~phao@189.107.189.221] has joined #scheme 17:03:36 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 17:04:20 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A927D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:31 -!- OSC|away is now known as OneSadCookie 17:14:05 fluflag [~c8c62a62@gateway/web/freenode/x-vbwfhqhrzficsprm] has joined #scheme 17:14:18 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-231-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:22 hello. i want my program to accept as its parameter a file which should be a list s-expressions, which my program should execute. Is that easy to do? What functions should I look for? 17:16:13 -!- adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:16:15 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-27-129-178.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:48 adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:17:18 dzhus [~sphinx@95-27-129-178.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:17:51 fluflag: `read' and `eval'. 17:23:03 r5rs read 17:23:03 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_612 17:23:04 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/58gpe2 17:23:12 r5rs load 17:23:12 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_630 17:23:12 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5vvuxd 17:23:15 r6rs eval 17:23:22 Sorry, no r6rs index. 17:23:39 minion: pacify specbot 17:23:40 you speak nonsense 17:25:25 incubot: what are your hopes concerning r7rs? 17:25:29 Indeed, I must confess that I have already begun implementing my own formatting combinators, yet again, with much more caution taken concerning abstraction barriers. 17:26:02 incubot: Do you think -t will sink any hope for sanity in the process? 17:26:05 you might want to look at other functional languages to see if you like their syntaxes better, like haskell or ocaml or kogut 17:26:55 incubot: there can be only one chicken! 17:26:58 unless Chicken is somehow image-based... 17:27:22 ... Kogut? 17:27:52 Oh, right, this is littledan's thing. 17:27:55 Perfectly pointless. 17:30:36 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:33:12 it means "male chicken" in polish... 17:33:33 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:42:17 anyone using paredit on a tty? i need recommendations for handling C-up, C-left, C-), etc. which cannot be entered on my terminal 17:43:56 Fabse [~mightyfid@p50803CF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:43:58 -!- Fabse [~mightyfid@p50803CF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:43:58 Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 17:46:53 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 17:53:44 -!- Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 17:54:32 Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 18:01:41 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:06 chandler, it would be hard to -t to do that, since he was expelled :) 18:08:10 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-93-34.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 18:12:32 is it only me or are sweet-macros actually harder to understand than regular syntax-rules/syntax-case 18:16:54 datura [~datura@p5499579D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:20:14 x2cast [~alvaro@83.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 18:21:18 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:24:09 Belaf [~campedel@194.209.131.192] has joined #scheme 18:28:06 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:24 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 18:29:57 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:31:57 samth: Shows how much I've been paying attention. Have they gotten rid of bh yet? 18:37:42 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:55 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:54:13 is there a let that can bind values from a list to symbols from a list? like (let-something (a b c) '(1 2 3) body) 18:56:09 HG` [~HG@xdslej193.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 19:01:44 Leonidas: You mean like apply? 19:02:04 (apply (lambda (a b c) (body)) '(1 2 3)) 19:02:16 I mean, it's easy to write a macro to make it fit the form you just described. 19:02:29 Leonidas: You might want to look into a `match'-style form. 19:03:56 cky: yep, like apply, thanks 19:06:06 -!- chittoor [~rajesh@115.117.198.170] has quit [Quit: This client just died] 19:14:10 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 19:17:22 -!- x2cast [~alvaro@83.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:22 x2cast [~alvaro@237.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 19:20:46 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 19:20:56 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:24:18 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:25:13 -!- x2cast [~alvaro@237.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 19:30:57 chandler, no, they haven't 19:31:20 however, we can still use 'tl;bh' in discussion 19:34:58 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC59680.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:07 :-) 19:44:00 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:46:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:46:36 IJP [~Ian@host86-174-203-114.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:47:38 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 19:55:50 -!- Belaf [~campedel@194.209.131.192] has left #scheme 20:03:13 -!- fluflag [~c8c62a62@gateway/web/freenode/x-vbwfhqhrzficsprm] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:06:51 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:30 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:08 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:27 wingo [~wingo@11.Red-79-156-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:59 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-208-195.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 20:17:24 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 20:21:09 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.250] has joined #scheme 20:23:24 -!- xray7224 [~xray7224@unaffiliated/xray7224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:58 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:59 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslej193.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:29:00 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 20:30:07 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-142.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:30:33 kilimanj4ro [~kilimanja@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:31:01 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-146.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:31:37 -!- kilimanj4ro is now known as kilimanjaro 20:31:47 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:31:47 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:36:11 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.250] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:38:48 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #scheme 20:41:00 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: my favourite color is blue......NO, YELLOWWWWWWWWW] 20:41:28 jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has joined #scheme 20:42:36 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 20:43:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:45:21 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:35 mehgahbleh [~mtndew@x-160-94-94-234.uofm-secure.wireless.umn.edu] has joined #scheme 20:48:56 I have a list in the global symbol table. 20:49:11 I made a function 20:49:12 (define (reverse! lst) (set! lst (reverse lst)) 20:49:13 ) 20:49:26 that takes in a lst and it should set the lst to its reverse. 20:49:37 But when I have (define a (list 1 2 3 4)) 20:49:44 and I do (reverse! a) 20:49:52 We need a #scheme FAQ for this one. 20:49:55 and then check the value of a 20:49:58 it's still the same. 20:50:00 chandler: Indeed. 20:50:02 o.o 20:50:09 mehgahbleh: You're setting the local variable `lst' bound by the function `reverse!'. 20:50:20 mehgahbleh: Do you understand the concept of pass-by-value? 20:50:24 So I'm attempting to change something in the local symbol table? 20:50:28 mehgahbleh: Yes. 20:50:37 How would I go around that? 20:50:49 mehgahbleh: Normally, you need to use a macro. 20:51:18 I'm not that familiar with the language. What's a macro? 20:51:43 A macro basically causes the calling code to be rewritten, in a sense. 20:52:03 A macro is a source-to-source transformation. In this case, a macro application of (reverse! a) would expand to (set! a (reverse a)) . 20:52:57 Shouldn't the program I wrote suffice? It should end up evaluating to (set! a (reverse a)) 20:53:26 No, that's not what it does. You're setting a local (lexical) variable binding. 20:53:38 -!- cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Quit: Vision[0.9.7-H-090423]: i've been blurred!] 20:53:39 mehgahbleh: Again, do you understand the distinction between pass-by-value and pass-by-reference? Scheme only does pass-by-value. 20:53:52 Do you know C? It's just like void foo(int a) { a = 42; } ... foo(b); ... 20:53:57 cky: no I do not. 20:54:20 mehgahbleh: Hmm. I'll see if I can find a quick way to explain it. 20:54:27 Thanks. 20:54:55 mehgahbleh: If you know C, see chandler's example above. That's pass-by-value. 20:55:12 Not familiar with C, unfortunately. 20:55:21 mehgahbleh: What other languages do you know? 20:55:34 Java, C++ are what I'm good with. 20:55:41 ... 20:55:42 Okay. Java also only does pass-by-value. :-P 20:55:51 not exactly ;) 20:55:51 The example I gave makes perfect sense in C++. 20:56:01 MononcQc: Actually, exactly. 20:56:19 MononcQc: I would love to see Java do pass-by-reference. 20:56:31 Ok. So that int a is being changed to 42, but only in that area. Outside that it wouldn't have a value of 42. 20:56:34 Andrej [~Andrej@BSN-61-34-41.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #scheme 20:56:35 Right? 20:56:37 mehgahbleh: Right. 20:56:41 Great. 20:56:45 The variable `a' only *exists* in that area. 20:56:58 wThen how can I edit something outside that area? 20:57:38 You can mutate an object, or use a closure. 20:57:43 Can I first ask why you're doing this? 20:57:44 ah, cky, it's about the whole bunch of discussions I've seen on the web about "references passed by value" and whatnot 20:57:52 I must have been confused :) 20:57:55 MononcQc: Hahahaha. 20:58:05 chandler: messing around with the language. 20:58:12 MononcQc: Java doesn't do pass-by-reference; in fact, I've only seen about 3 languages that support pass-by-reference: C++, C#, and Perl. :-P 20:58:16 How can I mutate the object? 20:58:21 " The difficult thing can be to understand that Java passes objects as references passed by value." 20:58:22 Which object? 20:58:24 MononcQc: Could be a sign of my ignorance more than anything else, of course. 20:58:30 cky, count PHP in that. It does support references ;) 20:58:30 MononcQc: That's a very, very confusing explanation. 20:58:36 An object defined in the golbal symbol table. 20:58:37 called a 20:58:38 MononcQc: Okay. 20:58:40 and it's a list. 20:58:49 mehgahbleh: Don't talk about "the global symbol table". 20:58:55 What you're thinking of probably doesn't exist. 20:58:56 The books do :( 20:58:59 :P 20:59:01 Which books? 20:59:18 I'm learning from Structure and INterpretation of computer programs. 20:59:40 chandler, yeah, I always found the explanations confusing 20:59:46 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html#%_toc_start 20:59:57 Well, what to do then? 21:00:11 -!- Andrej1 [~Andrej@BSN-61-24-205.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:00:24 mehgahbleh, what chapter are you at? 21:00:54 I don't follow it step by step. I just mess around with it. 21:01:00 But it's around chapter 3. 21:01:02 my question, that is. 21:01:05 MononcQc: a "reference passed by value" is like passing a cons cell. The reference is passed by value. Some Java types are not objects (as are some Scheme types), so the explanation of "references passed by value" is false in general. 21:01:39 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-20.html#%_sec_3.1.1 <-- That has the section I'm looking at. 21:01:43 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 21:01:45 ah, chandler, I see. 21:01:48 Well, "primitive values and references passed by value" is probably more accurate. 21:01:53 But all the objects there are defined in (let)s 21:02:52 mehgahbleh, when you get to 3.2, you'll see how this works in more detail 21:03:07 there are little drawings and boxes to make sure you geti t. 21:03:15 mehgahbleh: Where did you get this concept of "global symbol table"? 21:03:59 cky: Indeed, but that's no less by-value than anything else; it just means that there aren't any compound value types. 21:04:02 Teh intrawebs. 21:04:13 and a guy that introduced me to the language. 21:04:54 cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 21:05:03 chandler: Exactly my point. :-) 21:05:16 o.o 21:05:53 OK. Just for your clarification: there is no "global symbol table" in which objects reside. There is a global environment in which global bindings exist. Bindings associate identifiers with locations, and the location stores a value - in the case of a list, a reference to a cons cell at the head of the list. 21:06:57 minion: memo for foof: FYI, wrap-lines on an empty string throws an error: (fmt #t (wrap-lines "")) -> Error: (vector-length) bad argument type: () 21:06:57 Remembered. I'll tell foof when he/she/it next speaks. 21:07:10 Ok, I understand that now. 21:07:13 Reading 3.2 21:07:37 pft no don't skip sections ;_; 21:08:25 Well, I really want to know how to mutate something in a higher environment. :( 21:09:46 Only something which refers to a binding by its name can mutate it. 21:11:56 So it can't take in an arbitrary list? 21:12:03 -!- MononcQc [~ftrottier@207.253.180.96] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:12:31 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:12:55 mehgahbleh: If you have a way to touch its name, then you can. If you can't touch its name, then you can't. 21:13:27 mehgahbleh: I think you're still missing the distinction between a list - which is a chain of cons cells - and a binding, which might point to the head of the list. 21:13:35 schmir [~schmir@p54A90087.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:13:42 mehgahbleh: To expand on chandler's point: in Scheme, bindings aren't first-class. 21:14:04 And neither is the name to which the binding applies. :-P 21:14:49 (Eh, scrub out that last part, it's getting too confusing. Just leave it at bindings not being first-class. :-P) 21:15:13 To explain my parenthesised point, symbols are first-class, but symbols are not bindings. 21:16:19 What do you mean by first-class? 21:17:10 mehgahbleh: A first-class thing can be passed around. (It also has other meanings, but for the sake of this discussion, that's the only distinction that's useful.) 21:17:54 Okay. Remember chandler's C example? I'd like to augment with a slightly different example so you understand what I mean by first-class bindings. 21:18:13 void foo(int& a) { a = 42; } ... foo(b); 21:18:40 That changes b to 42. Why? Because instead of passing b's value to "foo", instead, b's reference is passed to foo. (Passing-by-reference.) 21:18:47 (That's a C++ example, by the way.) 21:19:12 In that sense, the binding is made first-class as a reference (in the C++ sense). 21:19:40 (I bet somebody will lecture me on misusing the word "first-class". :-P) 21:20:09 That's not making the binding first-class, cky! 21:20:30 Well, maybe it is. Hard to say with C++. 21:21:21 Sorta kinda. It actually makes b's location first-class, not the binding per se. 21:21:27 (http://pastebin.com/adz0igGL 21:21:32 But with C++ the distinction is kinda blurry, or maybe I'm just being ignorant. 21:21:33 Question is commented at the end. 21:21:40 lisppaste: url? 21:21:40 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 21:21:44 (For future reference.) 21:22:17 Ah, ok :P 21:22:38 mehgahbleh: Your example is mutating a cons cell, not a binding. 21:23:35 Can't I use something like that (mixed with an algorithm) to reverse everything? 21:23:35 I mean, if I have a list (1 2 3 4) 21:23:45 I can use a series of set-car!s and set-cdr!s to change the value of that list to its reverse? 21:23:52 Yes, you could perform an in-place reverse. 21:24:24 So doing set-car! would actually change its car? 21:24:26 mehgahbleh: As chandler says, you can do an in-place reverse, but you still need to be able to rebind your list with the new head-of-list. 21:24:34 mehgahbleh: Sure. 21:24:44 cky: ... You do? 21:25:00 chandler: Well yeah, otherwise the original binding points to the new end-of-list. 21:25:21 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:34 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-186-123-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:25:35 chandler: (Protip: Got stung by that one at Google on-site interview. :-P) 21:27:18 *mehgahbleh* goes to code algorithm to do it that way. 21:27:34 mehgahbleh: Sure, but take note what I said. 21:27:56 If you don't rebind your list (using set! on the original binding), it will still point to the old location, which is the last element of your reversed list. 21:28:14 chandler pasted "reverse!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97697 21:28:17 Well, last cons cell of your reversed list, just to be clear. 21:28:25 rudybot: init http://paste.lisp.org/display/97697/raw 21:28:32 chandler: your "http://paste.lisp.org/display/97697/raw" sandbox is ready 21:28:37 rudybot: eval (let ((x (list 1 2 3 4))) (reverse! x) x) 21:28:38 chandler: ; Value: {4 3 2 1} 21:28:52 cky: So, what were you saying about the old head-of-list? 21:29:11 chandler: *studies that code* 21:29:39 Oh! You're using a set-car! solution. Right. 21:29:50 The one I did at Google on-site was a set-cdr!-based solution. 21:30:08 So you're shuffling the next pointers, not the elements themselves. 21:30:08 alexshendi [~alexshend@178.2.213.217] has joined #scheme 21:30:47 Ah. 21:30:55 It makes sense. 21:31:09 But I still don't get what you said about binding, cky. 21:31:11 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 21:31:15 cky: And that's typically how a mutating reverse is done, but that doesn't rule out a true in-place reverse like this. 21:31:22 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 21:31:34 chandler: Point. :-) 21:32:13 mehgahbleh: Try implementing your reverse! using the typical O(n) solution. You'll see it when you try it. 21:32:15 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-186-123-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 21:33:26 Ah. 21:33:32 I'll try it in a bit. 21:33:37 Thank you a lot for your help. 21:33:48 I'll be back in a bit. But I'm thinking on a completely empty mind. 21:33:58 :-) 21:34:00 Once again, thanks a lot for actually knowing what you are doing. 21:34:07 *mehgahbleh* showers the room with candy :3 21:34:14 *mehgahbleh* will bbiab. 21:34:18 -!- mehgahbleh [~mtndew@x-160-94-94-234.uofm-secure.wireless.umn.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:34:22 *wingo* grubs around on the floor for sweets 21:34:29 Hehehehe. :-) 21:35:28 -!- alexshendi [~alexshend@178.2.213.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:43:25 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:45:04 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:47:58 MononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:50:40 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 21:51:03 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 22:00:24 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-222-57.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 22:02:52 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-27-129-178.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:05:22 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:05:45 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:05:56 -!- wingo [~wingo@11.Red-79-156-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07:14 -!- saccade [~saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-SEVEN-FORTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:35 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7EE43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:49 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90087.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:09 wingo [~wingo@218.Red-88-17-205.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:15:28 -!- wingo [~wingo@218.Red-88-17-205.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:28:38 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:29:23 -!- datura [~datura@p5499579D.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 22:31:47 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 22:35:41 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 22:37:09 -!- Andrej [~Andrej@BSN-61-34-41.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:45 zbigniew: thanks 22:38:45 foof, memo from zbigniew: FYI, wrap-lines on an empty string throws an error: (fmt #t (wrap-lines "")) -> Error: (vector-length) bad argument type: () 22:39:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:39:37 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 22:40:41 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:41:33 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC59680.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:27 schmir [~schmir@p54A90087.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:47:22 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 22:48:29 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 22:52:17 -!- glogic [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:53 rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 22:56:57 -!- rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:38 rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 22:59:20 -!- rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:38 rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 23:00:43 -!- rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:13 glogic [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 23:04:31 slava [~slava@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 23:04:37 what are the use-cases for first-class continuations? 23:05:10 erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 23:09:29 slava: thanks for reminding me, i want to wax poetic about that on the WG1 wiki :) 23:10:17 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90087.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:48 -!- jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:23 foof: I meant use cases not covered by coroutines (context switching) and exceptions (downward continuations) 23:11:35 like, when do you actually want to return more than once? 23:11:39 slava: yes, i know what you mean 23:12:22 i use call/cc only rarely - there are maybe a half-dozen uses of it in my entire (huge) codebase 23:12:37 but every time i use it it's indispensible 23:12:44 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:13:29 foof: do you wrap it in an abstraction or use it from application code? 23:13:57 it's an abstraction, otherwise there would be more than a half-dozen uses ;) 23:14:16 slava wow you ditched minnesnowta :( 23:15:27 foof: do the scheme implementations you use do anything more clever than copying the stack for call/cc? 23:15:52 note that heap allocating all frames is less clever than copying the stack in call/cc IMO :) 23:16:55 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:27:25 Andrej1 [~Andrej@89.142.217.135] has joined #scheme 23:28:22 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-142.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:28:36 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:28:56 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-142.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:32:50 slava: chicken uses cheney on the MTA 23:33:01 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 23:33:21 it basically gives you call/cc for free 23:33:32 but it adds an overhead on every call and return 23:33:42 because you lose locality and the CPU's call/ret pairing 23:33:51 slava, dybvig has a very impressive scheme in chez 23:34:26 slava: it optimizes tight loops so as not to allocate new frames 23:35:32 more generally, any CPS-based scheme will have call/cc for free - optimizing loops that can be done in the stack or registers is just more opportunities for the compiler 23:35:46 the orbit thesis gives a good discussion of this 23:35:58 and unlike chez, the orbit code is open source 23:36:14 even if T is a dead implementation :/ 23:36:44 chez caches the top X frames in a stack and heap allocates the rest? 23:36:51 and copies frames in and out on under/overflow? 23:36:57 -!- OneSadCookie is now known as OSC|away 23:37:03 br1 [~Bruno@r190-135-54-75.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #scheme 23:38:14 srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #scheme 23:38:34 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 23:42:09 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 23:42:54 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:09 bbl 23:45:40 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:45:56 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 23:47:13 anyone here has been running their email server on a) a computer at their apartment, or b) a VPS - for several years? 23:47:38 (and storing mail on an encrypted $HOME) 23:52:59 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 23:54:33 somnium [~user@adsl-243-27-73.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 23:56:00 srid: no encrypted home, but yes, email server on vps 23:57:13 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 23:58:35 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]