00:00:58 I use this term because Graham uses Blub as a variable for languages like C which constrain the ability of their users to express certain abstractions, and Graham's Blub is Lisp. He is as unaware of it as he claims C programmers are unaware of their thinking being limited to C. 00:02:16 I find it hilarious to see Lisp programmers doing two things in the same IRC message: 1) disparaging imperative-language programmers for their close-mindedness, and 2) claiming Lisp to be the end-all-be-all 00:02:22 You seem to be endorsing a sort of Sapir-Whorf view of programming languages, but I'd argue that this argument cuts both ways. A toolkit for creating new languages is likely to encourage broader horizons of thinking than any one existing grab-bag of semantics. 00:02:52 I did neither 1 nor 2. 00:03:21 The list of virtues I mentioned had little to nothing to do with Lisp, and everything to do with a mindset for programming. 00:04:52 I think it's not productive to discuss this any further, so I stop here. 00:05:03 Thank you. 00:05:03 Ok, I'll read them again and see. 00:06:06 You'll note that the last one in my list explicitly argued against being "incapable or unwilling to learn any different concepts". 00:06:10 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.212] has joined #scheme 00:15:01 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 00:15:52 Jafet: graham misses the point of his own essay 00:16:12 MonononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:16:13 -!- MonononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has left #scheme 00:16:33 he waxes poetic about a "100 year language" not realizing that Lisp itself, being a programmable programming language, already is the language he envisions 00:17:31 he so failed to grasp this point that he thought it necessary to implement Arc as an Arc->Scheme compiler, when in fact Arc is easily implementable using macros and reader macros 00:21:14 ... in addition to making some dreadful design decisions and forgetting the lessons we've learned of hygiene 00:21:15 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:21:15 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:21:15 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 00:21:21 -!- sundaymorning [~root@189.107.132.204] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:22:02 Well, he a common lisper by trade 00:22:17 And that doesn't excuse anything. 00:29:51 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:36:12 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:24 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 00:41:32 -!- untouchable [untouchabl@129.64.166.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:37 untouchable [untouchabl@dhcp-129-64-166-29.dorm.brandeis.edu] has joined #scheme 01:11:21 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:11:26 towodo [~anonymous@209-6-213-168.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:16:54 Anyone know how to continue the execution after calling (repl) ? 01:18:19 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A92135.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:43 -!- sah0s [~anto@92.251.218.4.threembb.ie] has quit [Quit: sah0s] 01:25:00 I can find it for mit scheme and gambit, but not chicken :P 01:26:11 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:33 -!- towodo [~anonymous@209-6-213-168.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: towodo] 01:28:36 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 01:29:08 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:30:04 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:30:48 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-106.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:32:30 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 01:33:03 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-251.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:34:50 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.150.153] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:37:57 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 01:40:00 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:42:02 foof: From his On Lisp book, I get the impression that he's anti-hygiene, so that goes a step beyond "forgetting the lessons". :-P 01:42:59 Why against hygiene? 01:43:41 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-120-160.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 01:45:20 seangrove: I don't want to speak for anyone but myself, but, the impression I got was that it got in his way. Like, he wanted to be able to "leak" additional bindings that the macro "callee" (not sure what the right term is) could use. 01:47:22 -!- sav [~sav@189001131114.usr.predialnet.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:55 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:49:37 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-75-51-148.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:50:00 ate2muchuranium [~root@189.107.132.204] has joined #scheme 01:50:14 is there the equivalent to haskell's zipWith in scheme? 01:51:23 ate2muchuranium: there's zip and unzip in SRFI-1 01:51:41 cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 01:51:47 It's called map 01:51:57 cky: explicit renaming doesn't get in your way 01:59:25 -!- kanak [~user@dhcp-18-111-102-67.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:59:34 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:55 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:00:33 *jcowan* appears. 02:01:25 -!- dudrenov [~user@adsl-99-147-43-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:48 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 02:01:53 foof: I would argue that ER macros certainly get in your way if you want to write "correct" macros, in the sense of them being, for the most part, hygienic, with their hygiene breakage clear. On the other hand, if someone hates hygiene, well, ER macros would probably not get in the way at all. 02:02:33 But, then again, I thought Arc and its author were a done deal? 02:02:51 Call no man _evdemon_ until he is dead. 02:03:47 As long as Paul G is still with us, Arc can still change. 02:03:59 jcowan: Funny thing happened the other day: I liked on of Thomas Lord's posts...:-) 02:04:04 arcfide: the point is ER macros provide a smooth transition from CL-style hygiene-free macros to incrementally solving both hygiene problems 02:04:24 foof: Yes, that they do. 02:04:31 arcfide: It's not that he never makes any sense. It's that his posts are tl;dr. 02:04:40 foof: Though, I'm not sure that's a good thing. 02:04:55 jcowan: Sorry, what is tl;dr? 02:04:58 Which is probably why Chicken 4 adopted them. 02:05:01 "too long; didn't read" 02:05:08 Hahah. 02:05:22 I'm guilty of that as well, though, so I can't bash him there. 02:05:22 he's also just an ass 02:05:28 Or more to the point "too long; don't have time/energy to reply" 02:05:45 he likes to put words in people's mouths and then attack them for it 02:05:47 However, I thought he made some decent points about why we shouldn't remove string-ref/string-set!. 02:06:22 Or, for that matter, remove the restriction of the ref and set! being O(1). 02:06:34 jcowan: his latest post is an ad hominem attack on you 02:06:45 A certain well-known Schemer who is certainly *not* known for being overly friendly on mailing lists wrote to me about him thus: 02:07:48 "[H]e managed to weasel his way onto research mailing lists with focussed, project-specific topics, which he would then derail with *relentless* off-topic pet issues -- delivered with an undergraduate's level of understanding, coupled with a tone of 100% certainty. I.e., his style was pretty much what I am seeing today." 02:08:40 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-120-160.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:41 foof: Latest post where? 02:08:50 arcfide: I'm actively polling for opinions on the O(1) access time debate - if you have one, please share! 02:08:57 jcowan: c.l.s 02:09:18 foof: I'm definitely going to get to it, but you'll allow me some time, I hope. I've been inordinately busy, and I have a stack of WG messages to which I would like to reply. 02:09:37 foof: is it on purpose that 'length' returns 0 for non-list objects on chibi? 02:10:02 tizoc: length accepts dotted lists, and ignores the dot, so yes 02:10:09 it's basically length+ from SRFI-1 02:10:26 I agree that that's TRT 02:10:31 foof: no, sorry, I mean things like numbers and strings 02:10:32 TRT? 02:10:40 not pairs that aren't proper lists 02:10:43 tizoc: a number is a degenerate dotted list 02:10:53 foof: I started off in the O(1) camp, thinking that UTF-32 was the natural in-memory representation for Unicode strings. Riastradh succesfully convinced me that accessing characters in strings by numeric index was a pointless task, and that iterators were better, more expressive constructs. 02:10:57 ah ok, thats new to me :) 02:11:51 The Right Thing 02:12:07 chandler: I've been speaking with some people who have done some of the Unicode work with Scheme around here, and there are a few sides. One side argues that any Unicode "encoding" should have no bearing on the underlying internal representation, and even modulo that, it's perfectly feasible to get O(1) random access. 02:12:13 I just read -t's post, and I don't agree that it's either an attack or ad hominem. He's probably quite correct, and I probably blundered. 02:12:17 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:12:55 arcfide: But what is the *point* of string-ref? 02:13:14 jcowan: he started with "An influential member of WG1 seem to be a bit confused..." 02:13:20 Moreover, there was the question of what you get out of a string-ref, whether it is a grapheme (sp?), code-point, or what. 02:13:23 (sic) 02:13:43 grapheme is correct 02:13:53 Well, if I am confused (and I don't deny it) then that's not an attack, it's a statement of fact. 02:14:03 foof: I thought that was in reference to your comment (in passing) that a non-32-bit representation of strings forced non-constant random access. 02:14:07 Quadrescence: then O(1) access is unreasonable 02:14:19 jcowan: it's just obnoxious the way he phrased it 02:14:30 And he is not saying "You are wrong because you're a bad person", so it's not ad hominem. 02:14:44 Well, if he had addressed me by name, would that be better or worse IYHO? 02:14:49 true enough 02:14:53 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:15:37 There's certainly nothing wrong with 8/16/32 or 8/16/24 styles of internal storage, and they are O(1). 02:15:43 foof: Quadrescence was just making a spelling point :-) 02:16:03 chandler: The point would be to get access to parts of a string without having to iterate or have linear access times. 02:16:04 oh :) 02:16:14 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 02:16:22 You can have fast ref and compact representation, but that trades off for a complicated underlying data structure, which is something else to consider 02:16:47 arcfide: And how does one decide what part of a string to access? 02:16:55 no, Jafet, UTF-8 is not only smaller but is the fastest implementation for the most expensive string operations 02:17:07 How complicated is it? A length, a character size in bytes, and the bytes. 02:17:10 that's why google uses utf-8 for their new regex library 02:17:30 Regex != random access. 02:17:34 But for string-ref? 02:17:34 There is also another range of thought that doesn't buy the argument of space being too large when using 32-bit representations. The argument goes something like: we've been using 8-bit characters even when we cared about every bit of our memory space, and we're at a point now where there are better algorithms for compression than the encodings give us, and it doesn't make sense to do all this extra work just to save space that w 02:17:49 arcfide: You were cut off at "space that w" 02:17:51 jcowan: the point being you don't _need_ random access 02:18:01 You don't unless you do. 02:18:05 When do you? 02:18:10 ...space that we could save more effecitvely in other ways. 02:18:26 Once upon a time I thought that I did need random access, but now I'm not sure that I do. 02:18:55 chandler: I can't say for certain, but there were some fuzzy string matching algorithms that I think were most naturally expressed using random access elements, but I can't recall if this is correct or not. 02:18:59 Another consideration is that you already have vectors, which are random access 02:19:06 For one thing, when you are processing record files with fixed-length fields. 02:19:12 chandler: And I'm not sure I understand what you mean by what part of a string to access? 02:19:22 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:19:28 the only algorithm anyone has given that requires random string access is boyer-moore, which can be more quickly implemented in utf-8 02:19:39 chandler: If you're talking about the issue of characters vs. code points, then I'm not opposed (at the moment) to using code points. 02:20:00 foof, is that because utf-8 is prefix-free? 02:20:20 foof: What do you mean more quickly implemented? 02:20:53 arcfide: simpler implementation, arguably asymptotically faster unless you want to argue hash-table lookups per char are O(1) 02:21:22 i will benchmark utf-8 string search against ucs-4 any day of the week 02:22:31 "Character" is not a technical term in Unicode. 02:22:37 foof: I'm still not sure I understand what you mean, sorry. I'm partially thinking about other things. 02:22:47 (We use it, of course, but informally.) 02:22:51 arcfide: What I was suggesting is that the index in random string access usually is determined by having effectively iterated through the string, not because some index was picked out of thin air. 02:23:15 Which is to say, it's a location cookie whose value you don't actually care about, per Riastradh's text library. 02:23:39 But I do find myself saying "cut -c1-5,40-59" more often than I'd like. 02:24:00 That's UNIX bogosity. 02:24:04 Worse is better, etc. 02:24:07 jcowan: So, instead of accessing a piece of a string by index, you have a cookie stored someplace that gets you back there? 02:24:25 Yes. 02:24:27 We're too starved of brainpower to use actual data types and serialization methods, so here's a blob of text in a mostly-undocumented format. Cut and sed at will. 02:24:57 Not necessarily undocumented (it's well-documented in the case I have in mind). Just old. 02:25:02 Is this library implemented and documented somewhere that I can play with? 02:25:16 Documented but not implemented: 02:25:20 -!- ate2muchuranium [~root@189.107.132.204] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:25:29 I haven't taken a look at these things for a while, but I'm willing to consider them if they are really convincing. I'm just very conservative on the idea of dropping strings as "arrays" in some senese. 02:25:47 Well humph! If it isn't implemented.... ;-) 02:25:49 arcfide: you read through all of lord's post and none of my original post?! :/ 02:26:00 foof: Sorry? 02:26:17 foof: I've read through all the messages I can remember receiving from you. 02:26:18 arcfide: i linked to the library in question 02:26:26 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:26:33 foof: Ah. 02:26:56 foof: In both your message and most others, Thomas' including, I usually mentally ignore all URLs. 02:27:06 I have to go through a second time to get those. 02:27:26 You have to use the gopher: scheme to get arcfide's attention. 02:27:28 arcfide: http://mumble.net/~campbell/proposals/new-text.txt 02:27:30 Anyways, I'd better get to work, so I can do WG stuff without guilt. 02:28:28 arcfide: btw, similar libraries have been implemented in gauche and chicken 02:28:55 tom lord's utf8 trie (sic) hack, however, has never been implemented 02:29:03 to my knowledge 02:29:24 i think it would be a pretty horrible idea 02:29:28 -!- dysinger [~tim@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:29:47 foof: I think he also claimed that Larceny had some sort of O(1) access time string thingy that wasn't 32-bit. Still, I'm not sure the space issue is a valid one. 02:29:52 *foof* gets back to work as well 02:29:56 foof: What's this hack? From the description, it sounds like a way to get O(1) access to characters in a UTF-8 encoded string? 02:30:18 There's an argument to be made about what it means to access random string elements, and so forth, but space in internal representations isn't one of them, I think. 02:30:36 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:30:55 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:30:59 chandler: i think he want's a skip-list to get O(lg(n)) into the indices, and is claiming that since memory is limited lg(n) is constant 02:31:03 chandler: Essentially, you can get amoritized constant access time in UTF-8 based string representations by creating "chunks" of strings that you jump into or some such. 02:31:08 but his proposal wasn't terribly lucid 02:31:36 foof: No, but I did verify that it's a reasonable approach with some other people whose implementation skills in such matters I trust more fully than Thomas' assertions. 02:32:27 I think my reference mentioned something about fixed-depth ropes, tries, and other such data structures. 02:32:30 foof: Isn't a skip-list a random data structure with O(1) amortized time? A trie would be O(lg(n)), though claiming that it's O(1) is batty. 02:33:11 chandler: I think skip lists are O(log(n)). 02:33:53 Ah. 02:34:05 My memory seems to be a bit off here. 02:34:47 It seems to me that this is the kind of thing one could reasonably implement using string iterators, if one so desired. 02:37:20 -!- pharon [~pharon@dsl092-075-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 02:38:22 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 02:38:39 REPLeffect <-- best nickname ever. :-P 02:41:25 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 02:45:41 -!- prince [~prince@203.246.179.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:30 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 02:51:51 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:14 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:52:32 timj_ [~timj@e176215214.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:14 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176222055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:59:19 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 03:05:39 -!- MononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 03:06:57 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.81.40] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 03:07:43 sketch: Uw smaak in bioscoop inspireert me 03:09:08 minion: chant 03:09:08 MORE FULLY 03:09:10 :D 03:09:11 okay 03:09:35 FOR MULLY 03:12:38 I decoded -t's post and he's clearly right. 03:14:50 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 03:15:14 jcowan: Decode and clearly used in the same sentence...type violation. 03:16:58 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:17:14 Mmm, no. Not everything is obvious. Especially not in th Scheme world, where people are expected to decipher other people's code with no explanations. 03:17:54 jcowan: I'm working on that. :-) 03:19:29 Scheme code has the fewest comments I've ever seen; in particular, there are never any "why" explanations. 03:20:18 to get to the other slot? 03:21:08 jcowan: You're just the man I want to talk to then. Mind commenting on just such a matter with some recent code I'm playing with? 03:21:28 Gladly. 03:22:07 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:23:17 Hm. Writing this whole page of documentation might have been a waste of time, if it isn't in the scheme style 03:23:26 Oh well 03:27:39 Andrej1 [~Andrej@BSN-61-27-26.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #scheme 03:29:05 Jafet: Well, not all of us believe in writing minimal documentation for Scheme. 03:29:19 change /Scheme/Scheme Programs/ 03:31:14 I think ratio of code to comments is a fairly accurate indicator of language power 03:32:06 foof: I don't have a dog in this fight, but aren't/weren't emacs buffers implemented as a string broken in two pieces with a bubble at the point? Would that count as an example requiring some kind of array access like you are asking for? 03:32:42 (assuming you are talking about mutable strings) 03:33:33 Well, editing buffers are not (and should not be) flat arrays 03:33:51 acarrico: it's called a gap buffer, and an editor is one of my primary arguments in favor of utf8 03:34:29 ... although the gap-buffer is a pretty crappy data-structure, and the reason emacs can't handle large files 03:35:44 -!- adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36:32 I'm not saying a gap buffer is a good idea, it just came to mind as an example. 03:36:46 adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:37:06 Out of curiosity, which data structures are currently contending for the string type? 03:37:33 Jafet: all of them ;) 03:38:41 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@user-0c2h0f1.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 03:39:53 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:44:11 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:48:25 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:40 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 03:53:32 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 03:57:44 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:00:23 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 04:03:19 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:10:09 What is the preferred Scheme implementation for Linux? 04:10:29 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 04:11:52 R3cur51v3: Who is doing the preferring? 04:11:54 Most implementations run fine on Linux. The OS is the wrong parameter for choosing a Scheme. 04:13:26 chandler, there is basically one C compiler that dominates the open source scene (GCC) and one Python interpreter that does likewise (CPython). I was wondering if there was similar software for Scheme. 04:13:42 So perhaps I should have asked, "Which Scheme implementation is the most popular?" 04:14:27 There's no implementation in such a position. 04:15:01 I don't know which implementation is most popular. I personally use PLT Scheme, which is reasonably popular; I certainly can't say as I know of another that's more popular. 04:15:52 R3cur51v3: There are quite a few popular Schemes, and generally speaking, there is not this "everyone (almost) uses _____ Scheme." 04:16:22 OK, thanks, PLT seems to be mature and is available in the Fedora repo, so I think it will suit my purposes. 04:16:36 Generally speaking, the numeric counts for Scheme implementations probably isn't going to help much, and there is not such a clear winner that you can offhandly say, "This Scheme is most popular, surely." 04:17:10 OK, thanks arcfide 04:17:30 Maturity is a good benchmark. I'd be hard pressed to identify a free-as-in-DFSG Scheme that could plausibly claim to be more mature than PLT. 04:17:45 DFSG? 04:18:39 Among mature Schemes I could count Chicken, MIT Scheme, Gambit, PLT, Chez (my personal favorite), at least. Bigloo, too, but....Eh. 04:18:51 (chibi) 04:18:55 Sorry, would count. 04:19:01 elly: Eh, no. 04:19:03 :-) 04:19:03 Debian Free Software Guidelines. Insert your favorite definition of Free or Open Source here to suit. 04:19:20 I usually say free-as-in-freedom 04:19:24 Ah, yes, it might be hard to find one that was demonstrably more mature there. 04:19:50 I believe Chez and PLT Scheme are two of the more long lived Scheme projects, though MIT Scheme might vie for the age vote. 04:20:11 Considering that it was created at MIT, I think MIT wins :) 04:20:22 Yes, but some of the other benchmarks that I'd use for overall implementation maturity strongly favor PLT over MIT. 04:20:23 Hah! 04:20:32 chandler: Agree. 04:20:40 i really like PLT 04:20:52 its the only R6RS i've been able to find AND use 04:20:57 Scheme48 is pretty mature, too, but how long has it been around? 04:21:05 Quite a while. 04:21:08 adu: Have you tried Chez Scheme 8.0? 04:21:15 I  plt too 04:21:30 arcfide: nope, i've tried to use Ikarus, but it wouldn't compile 04:21:38 It would be interesting to compare the relative conformity of Chez vs. PLT to R6RS. 04:21:46 adu: Ikarus is quite a new kid. 04:21:59 i'm on macosx 04:22:01 R3cur51v3: Anyway, you will probably find PLT to be a good starting point. It's an active implementation with a large user community presence in this channel, has a good set of programming tools, and is quite well documented. 04:22:05 adu: If you're curious about how other Schemes do R6RS, Petite Chez Scheme is good. 04:22:14 ok, i'll try it 04:22:16 if i can 04:22:19 ;) 04:22:20 OK, thanks chandler 04:22:24 I've used Ikarus on OS X. I'm pretty sure Aziz is a Mac user, so I'd be surprised if it didn't work in general. 04:22:27 R3cur51v3: yes, I would definitely go for the documentation factor, and PLT has plenty of it. 04:22:54 adu: It's very easy to install, as you don't compile it. You just link the binaries with your system. 04:23:06 chandler: well, iirc, I tried Ikarus back when i had a ppc mac, ... now i have an x86 mac so perhaps i should try again 04:23:31 adu: It's probably the most mature Implicit Phasing R6RS implementation, which is sort of a different style of R6RS from PLT Scheme's approach. 04:23:50 adu: Oh, yeah, Ikarus is 100% x86, and a fairly new version of x86 at that. 04:24:29 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 04:24:57 I actually have PLT (of course), Petite, Ikarus, Larceny, and Ypsilon installed on my Mac. 04:25:10 So, almost a full R6RS house. 04:25:35 (Among R6RS implementations, that is. I have quite a selection of others, too.) 04:25:35 I love the PLT documentation 04:25:38 arcfide: when I try and download Chez it redirects me to http://www.scheme.com/download/unavailable.html 04:25:59 adu: Chez is a commercial product. The Free (as in no-cost) version is Petite. 04:26:14 i tried downloading the petite version 04:26:32 :P i'm sticking with PLT 04:26:47 why does PLT exist, anyway? 04:26:59 educational purposes 04:27:03 Do they sell some other things that plt-scheme helps sell? 04:27:18 jcowan@jcowan-laptop:~$ scheme 04:27:18 Try mzscheme, gosh, mit-scheme, gsi, csi, bigloo, scsh/scheme48, guile, kawa, sisc, petite, scm, ikarus, larceny, mosh, s9, s7, stklos, sscm, sxi, vscm, or chibi-scheme. 04:27:18 jcowan@jcowan-laptop:~$ 04:27:38 adu: The download page lists Chez Scheme first, you have to go to the Petite Chez Scheme section. 04:28:01 elly: PLT is realy an umbrella name for a framework for language development. :-) 04:28:18 uh-huh 04:28:19 -!- leppie [~lolcow@196-210-186-123-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28:26 and irssi si really a framework for chat client development 04:28:26 arcfide: oh, lol, found it 04:28:32 arcfide: thanks 04:29:01 elly: I'm not sure I understand your sarcasm. 04:29:21 I am being silly, and it is probably best to ignore me 04:29:25 I have had very little sleep 04:29:58 Oh. 04:30:13 elly: IMO, much as the PLT people want to claim to be Scheme, I would say that they really "have Scheme modes" in their system, but most of the language there are not standard Scheme, nor a compatible superset thereof, and the default language they recommend you use is also not compatible with the standards. This is not a bad thing, but it's certainly a very specific, different approach. 04:30:31 This is why I'm glad of the name change. 04:30:46 Then I can stop using ridiculous terminology like TLYTBKAR 04:30:51 what name change? oO 04:31:25 elly: see http://www.plt-racket.org/new-name.html - but shh, don't tell anybody! It's an open secret. 04:32:13 oh, nice! 04:32:14 zomg 04:32:18 it has tab completion 04:32:36 annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-14-62.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:32:36 -!- annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-14-62.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:32:36 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 04:33:18 I assume this was published 8 days ago? 04:33:36 No, not at all. They're entirely serious, and it's been around for a month or so. 04:33:38 adu: What does? 04:34:10 (Well, some of that page is obviously tongue in cheek.) 04:34:29 arcfide, will the differences between Scheme proper and PLT trip me up as I'm learning? Are they very significant? 04:34:29 arcfide: Petite Chez Scheme 04:35:17 R3cur51v3: No, I don't think the differences will trip you up much, and if you want to stick to a standard dialect it's very easy to do so in PLT. 04:35:23 R3cur51v3: Just use a Standard compliant language in PLT and you won't get tripped up. Use R6RS or R5RS language modes. 04:35:25 (I know you didn't address that to me.) 04:35:26 *adu* <3 completion 04:35:27 R3cur51v3: "Scheme" is the name of a family of languages, including three standards and several dozen implementations. They have a lot in common, but they have a lot more that's not in common. 04:35:33 OK 04:35:42 jcowan! <3 04:35:47 just like "C" is a family of languages 04:35:51 Hi, elly. 04:35:52 adu, not really 04:35:57 adu, not at all in fact 04:36:00 No, much more different than that. 04:36:03 C is a very specific standard 04:36:05 adu: Ah, yes, it has some other niceties too. This comes about I think largely because many of the Chez Scheme developers and users do not use Emacs. 04:36:22 there were several revisions, and GCC implements slight modifications to the standard 04:36:32 but still, ANSI C is a very definite thing 04:36:35 By the way, anyone who entertained thoughts of writing iPhone applications in Scheme (as some have done using Gambit) might want to read this: http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/apples-iphone-lockdown-apps-must-be-written-in-one-of-three-la/ 04:36:36 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yesur2h 04:36:38 chandler: Are they seriously changing the name? 04:36:42 Evidently. 04:36:43 arcfide: Yes. 04:36:58 Does this mean the sublanguages will be called SmallRacket and PrettySubstantialRacket? 04:37:10 Wow. 04:37:15 (I had thought that this was common knowldge by now. I wouldn't have spread the link if I had known.) 04:37:38 jcowan: No idea. I'd rather they dispensed with them entirely, to be honest. 04:38:02 R3cur51v3: http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2010/2/69354-a-few-billion-lines-of-code-later 04:38:03 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/y268fz5 04:39:00 R3cur51v3: If you stick to the Scheme standards, and pick an implementation that supports the standard that you want to use, then learning is easy. After that, you can branch out into implementation specific things, once you know your way around. 04:39:31 adu, what am I supposed to gather from that massive article? 04:39:42 -!- kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:18 kniu [~kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:40:23 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:40:35 R3cur51v3: that C sucks 04:41:41 adu, I highly doubt that the ACM's magazine employs idiots as writers. 04:42:17 R3cur51v3: also, that C isn't always implemented in a standards-compliant way 04:42:48 C is pretty convenient when truly appropriate 04:42:58 and that many applications make use of these nonstandard features 04:43:07 like inline assembly NOT in a string 04:43:21 adu, yes. I understand that. However, there IS a standard, and everyone, more or less, is expected to follow it, even though mistakes are made from time to time. 04:43:43 so how is that different from scheme? 04:43:56 Anyway, I doubt that #scheme is a forum for arguments over C. 04:44:52 R3cur51v3: my confusion remains 04:44:59 It's quite a lot like the variance among the R5RS implementations, and not a lot like the difference between PLT TLYTBKAR and the RnRS, or between the R6RS and the R5RS. 04:45:06 R3cur51v3: are you saying RnRS aren't "definite" standards? 04:46:41 Never mind. I am not well versed in the variations between Scheme standards. I only know that C is nowhere close to having "three standards and several dozen implementations", and that C is not a "family of languages". 04:47:11 ok 04:48:07 all i know is that it seems very painful 04:48:36 Lisp is a family of languages in the literal sense, that you can just spawn a new one if you feel like it 04:49:03 By recursion, this applies to any variant of it 04:49:35 i think the reason why its so painful to talk about boils down to libraries/modules, but that's just my understanding 04:50:26 it seems like there are 3 separate camps, the (library) camp, the (module) camp, and the "what are those?" camp 04:50:50 adu: I would disagree there. 04:50:55 arcfide: how so? 04:51:14 There are many, many more camps than just 3. 04:51:17 hehe 04:51:22 That assertion depends very much on what you mean by libraries, modules, and the like. There are many different thoughts on that. 04:51:44 well, by the (library) camp, i mean the camp that "won" with R6RS 04:52:26 by the (module) camp i mean people who like NOT having tabs/whitespace infront of every line in a library when using emacs' autointenting 04:52:52 nebogeo [~dave@cs78174123.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 04:52:56 but i'm sure that that is just one of several issues people disagree upon 04:55:43 adu: You know, you can put the library body in a separate file... 04:55:44 adu: Nobody one with R6RS' library form. Everyone got a compromise. 04:56:11 s/one/won/ 04:56:58 I don't remember whether the R6RS has an `include' syntax, but if it doesn't, it's not terribly hard to write one. 04:58:55 arcfide: that's good to know :) 04:59:08 Or fix scheme-mode to not autoindent module bodies 04:59:23 Good night, all. 04:59:26 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!] 04:59:46 Jafet: thats true... 04:59:57 night night 05:00:11 PLT #lang syntax is a nice compromise between library and module. 05:00:16 since when does rudybot speak unbidden? 05:00:59 Whenever duncanm signs in, for one thing. 05:01:06 chandler: it does not have a built-in include, but it is easy to write a portable version. 05:01:31 Daemmerung: Well, other than that. 05:01:59 Daemmerung: I'm not sure I understand that assertion. We should define what library and module mean here. 05:02:55 I was using the indentation-focused definitions. 05:03:58 If we're talking about whether the module declaration encapsulates or syntactically wraps the code (assuming the absence of an include form), I'm not sure I get how #lang has anything to do with it. 05:07:18 #lang scheme is reader syntax for a (module ...) that syntactically wraps the remainder of the file. 05:08:07 How is this a compromize then, between libraries and modules? This seems to just be another syntax for modules, which seems like no compromize at all. 05:08:49 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:12 chandler: quand mon maître me tire les cordes 05:13:30 Now that's quality AI 05:14:30 chandler:  05:14:52 prince [~prince@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 05:15:30 *Daemmerung* wonders what the "I" denotes in PNAMBIC 05:20:50 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:46 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:22:13 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:50 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 05:28:11 nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has joined #scheme 05:31:28 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.122] has joined #scheme 05:45:23 crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 05:53:53 -!- 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timeout: 240 seconds] 11:42:08 MetaEntity [~56499fa8@gateway/web/freenode/x-olqxvgmggzwwapni] has joined #scheme 11:42:20 bonjour tout le monde 11:42:31 salut 11:42:44 c'est anglais ou francais ici? 11:42:51 english 11:43:00 ok sorry 11:43:07 pas de problem 11:43:24 some ` or ' missing there? 11:43:32 I am looking for a way to define a syntax define-type-predicate 11:43:47 which uses a symbol-append procedure 11:43:58 at expansion-time to build 11:44:10 (define (symbol-append type-name '?) .... 11:44:24 I know how to do that with define-macro 11:44:37 but with define-syntax I don't know how to do it 11:45:01 MetaEntity: using `datum->syntax' 11:45:03 x2cast [~alvaro@105.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:45:26 ok thanks 11:45:41 (datum->stx #'ctxt (symbol-append ...)) 11:45:42 what datum->syntax exactly does? 11:45:45 also, it wont work with syntax-rules 11:46:00 you need something like syntax-case 11:46:14 MetaEntity: it takes a datum (s-expression) and turns it into a "syntax object" 11:46:16 ok thanks leppie 11:46:26 well not really... 11:47:17 leppie are you the one who created ironscheme? 11:47:21 where a "syntax object" has lexical information (taken from #'ctxt in the above example), as opposed to "plain" datums 11:47:29 MetaEntity: yes 11:47:36 oh great 11:47:51 I was wondering where I saw your name :) 11:48:01 Is it an active project yet? 11:48:10 I am interested in it 11:48:29 not so much anymore, I kinda got burnt out at work, and havent really done any work on it this year 11:48:43 it's quite stable though 11:48:54 I want to build a project for Imagine Cup next year with it 11:49:30 I have been a french finalist of the contest the previous year 11:49:31 you could probably use any R6RS scheme for that, unless you specifically want .NET integration 11:49:41 nice MetaEntity 11:49:57 in the rules we have to use the .Net framework ... 11:50:06 I am not a fan of Microsoft 11:50:11 and I prefer scheme 11:50:19 oh cool :) 11:50:19 so I wanted to use your project 11:50:27 that be great! 11:50:33 thanks 11:51:08 But I am still a beginner in Scheme 11:51:11 havent you thought about F#? 11:51:25 I started only 1 month ago 11:51:39 I dislike Haskell :( 11:52:12 F# is more OCaml than haskell iirc 11:52:19 My project implies data manipulation and the creation of several net protocols 11:52:37 I thought scheme would be a good data representation instead of xml 11:53:05 that's true :) 11:53:34 Are you often connected here? 11:54:02 yes, mostly after hours 11:54:25 Sorry but I will bother you with some questions sometimes :) 11:54:26 I lurk alone in #ironscheme too, if you want ask specific questions 11:54:33 ok thanks 11:55:29 Did you already do some benchmarks of ironscheme? 11:55:52 the startup is a little slow, but after it seems to be quite quick 11:56:11 i tested against the other IRonPython, and it is a lot faster 11:56:22 ok great 11:56:42 is it compiled to managed code? 11:57:18 yes 12:02:29 MononcQc [~ftrottier@207.253.180.96] 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[~lambda@pool-151-203-14-62.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:47:49 -!- annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-14-62.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:47:49 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 13:53:27 -!- karme [~user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:20 luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 13:59:41 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:02:15 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 14:02:21 -!- sah0s [~anto@92.251.239.60.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:27 sah0s [~anto@92.251.239.60.threembb.ie] has joined #scheme 14:04:01 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-186-123-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:04:13 i have a reduce/reduce conflict in a bison grammar, which channel should i go for help? 14:04:14 thx 14:05:54 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 14:05:59 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:06:06 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 14:06:29 sah0s: http://www.delorie.com/gnu/docs/bison/bison_88.html 14:07:16 I think another way of saying it is that your grammar is ambiguous. 14:10:31 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:24 i had a stray rule that i hadn't gotten rid of 14:13:27 thanks 14:16:01 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:20:58 -!- xwl [~user@125.34.169.128] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:23:03 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:25:06 -!- xray7224 [~xray7224@unaffiliated/xray7224] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:33 Ikarus users with a few minutes to spare around? 14:42:42 #define begin { 14:42:43 #define end } 14:42:50 void main(void) 14:42:51 begin 14:42:53 ... 14:43:23 xray7224 [~xray7224@unaffiliated/xray7224] has joined #scheme 14:43:23 -!- xray7224 [~xray7224@unaffiliated/xray7224] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:43:36 -!- pavelludiq1 [~5b8bc32b@gateway/web/freenode/x-uxmozchifyozdgqs] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:43:43 xray7224 [~xray7224@unaffiliated/xray7224] has joined #scheme 14:43:44 -!- xray7224 [~xray7224@unaffiliated/xray7224] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:44:37 I wasn't prepared to see that :-| 14:45:08 alevt once had '#define $ (void *)' 14:45:34 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.122] has quit [Quit: off] 14:45:34 (which, apparently, worked at some stage (weird version of cpp)) 14:45:45 *mario-goulart* would #define WTF ; 14:46:21 So you can finish your statements with WTF, to make things clear. 14:46:25 mario-goulart: nice one 14:46:40 :) 14:48:47 mario-goulart: wouldn't "#define WTF ; //" be even more fun 14:48:49 ? 14:49:50 some_code() WTF was that? 14:49:56 sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:50:22 rotty: that would be just amazing. 14:50:34 +1 for readable code. 14:50:36 *g* 14:52:20 -!- OneSadCookie is now known as OSC|away 14:53:05 int tmp WTF is this variable?! 14:53:30 -!- OSC|away is now known as OneSadCookie 14:54:20 *mario-goulart* thinks of a `ltf' macro to be used instead of `let' in scheme. 14:56:33 And `stf!' instead of `set!'. 14:57:03 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 14:57:15 ...and call/tf instead of call/cc. :-P 14:57:23 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:57:58 Or, in long-form, call-with-the-current-fucking-continuation. :-P 14:59:20 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:46 thesaurise your scheme. map -> gps, left-fold -> socialist-circumvolution 15:00:08 Socialist-circumvolution? Wow, that's a mouthful. :-P 15:00:30 :) 15:02:09 (socialist-circumvolution + (cite (1 2 3))) => 6 15:04:30 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 15:05:18 Maybe WG1 should consider allowing -tf suffixed forms the be aliases to the forms without it. So we could portably use `define-tf', `let-tf', `if-tf' and `for-each-tf', for example. 15:06:08 Allowing expanded -tf (e.g., `define-the-f*ck') would be a plus. 15:06:33 *mario-goulart* is out to lunch 15:06:39 set-tf! 15:06:39 :-) 15:08:04 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 15:08:45 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:06 ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #scheme 15:28:26 -!- gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:28:45 gnomon [~gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 15:29:26 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 15:31:13 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 15:33:51 -!- saccade__ [~saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit 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21:39:37 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:00 MetaEntity [~56499fa8@gateway/web/freenode/x-blzndtqkoebhkmya] has joined #scheme 21:41:04 hello 21:41:22 I have a question about generic methods implementation 21:41:55 when calling such a method there should be a place to refer for the dispatch 21:42:01 something like hashtable 21:42:04 right? 21:43:20 Hi. 21:43:24 You could do that. 21:43:50 hi 21:44:02 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:44:06 is it the most common implementation? 21:44:41 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 21:44:54 r6rs should provide generic methods 21:45:20 generic methods + r6rs record types would make oop extension useless 21:45:24 so it would be nice 21:47:40 I don't see why that is a plus :P 21:49:31 elly: it depends what you want to do 21:50:26 if I use symbol as keys for a hashtable, is the corresponding data structrure efficient? 21:50:42 I mean a simple hashtable could be a binary tree 21:50:53 if symbols are just represented by numbers 21:50:58 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:09 a string would provide better results 21:51:27 -!- MetaEntity [~56499fa8@gateway/web/freenode/x-blzndtqkoebhkmya] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:51:38 ...No? 21:51:51 What on earth was that thing on 21:55:18 Good question. 21:55:29 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-27-141-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:08:51 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DDE18.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:11:12 -!- luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 22:14:01 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: my favourite color is blue......NO, YELLOWWWWWWWWW] 22:15:40 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:26:23 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:27:10 MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:33:49 Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 22:37:53 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:02 lol 22:40:59 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 22:41:04 incubot: it was the gardener 22:41:07 reminds me of the constant gardener which I saw last night 22:53:44 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-201.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:57:43 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-73.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:58:27 -!- OneSadCookie is now known as OSC|away 23:10:01 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:35 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 23:24:29 -!- OSC|away is now known as 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