00:00:17 -!- merimus_ [~merimus@c-67-171-83-6.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:02:42 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:03:40 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:47 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:42 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-75-49-205.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:12:40 -!- sloyd [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 00:13:18 sloyd [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has joined #scheme 00:14:28 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 00:16:44 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.122] has joined #scheme 00:17:25 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-170-024.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:18:16 -!- bzzbzz [~user@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:21:05 -!- ___rm [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:22:22 rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #scheme 00:27:36 -!- rm_ is now known as glogic 00:30:10 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:31:04 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:17 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:31:50 sav [~sav@189001131236.usr.predialnet.com.br] has joined #scheme 00:33:41 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:33:54 bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-170-024.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:35:20 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:41:16 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:42:58 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@82-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:50:26 pharon [~pharon@dsl092-075-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 00:50:44 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 00:53:22 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-237-4.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: good night] 00:54:25 schmir [~schmir@p54A9106B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 00:58:00 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A9106B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:20 -!- funkenblatt [~user@adsl-69-238-246-201.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #scheme 01:18:23 -!- towodo [~anonymous@209-6-213-168.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: towodo] 01:20:20 -!- sav [~sav@189001131236.usr.predialnet.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:27 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:29:05 -!- rt7 [~rt7@Free.Arethusa-VPN.with.mirkforce.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:31:27 rt7 [~rt7@Free.Arethusa-VPN.with.mirkforce.de] has joined #scheme 01:32:20 -!- MononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 01:32:21 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:34 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:33:14 MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:34:59 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:36:31 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:36:31 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:36:32 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 01:41:55 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 01:44:32 Azuvix [~user@174-19-239-187.bois.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:44:58 Let me guess, most people on here are bots too? 01:45:27 Hm. Let's see. 01:45:33 minion: Are you a bot? 01:45:33 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 01:45:53 No surprise there. 01:45:55 I'll take that as a "yes", despite his terminology quibble. Out of a sample size of one, we can conclude that 100% of the users in #scheme are bots. 01:46:16 chandler: Ha. 01:46:43 I just hopped over from #lisp, where I was told most are bots. 01:46:59 Oh. Well, minion is in both channels, so I'm not surprised. 01:47:31 In any case, I wanted to ask for some good links to learn more about Scheme. I've tried a couple of code examples and I really like it so far. 01:48:05 Ah. Well, there's a collection of links in the topic that might be interesting to you. 01:48:23 Which implementation are you using? 01:48:42 guile1.8, on a PPC, for GNU/Linux. 01:48:51 Minus the wonky order. 01:49:54 Hm. Well, I'm not particularly fond of Guile, as it has few unique virtues and many deficits, including poor performance and bad hygiene (though the latest prerelease versions have addressed a number of the problems with it). 01:50:30 I was thinking that might be the case. I had enough of a hassle mentioning GCL earlier. 01:50:37 Oh, dear. 01:50:43 I can only imagine. 01:51:09 What would you recommend instead? The student is ready to learn. 01:51:27 A number of new users look for the implementation that has the official Stamp of GNU on it, but that may not be the best free software implementation of a given language. A shame, really. 01:51:54 Azuvix: There are a number of implementations. I personally find PLT to be a complete and useful environment, with excellent documentation: http://plt-scheme.org/ 01:52:09 Then to PLT I go! 01:53:10 Though before I do... PPC? 01:53:38 You'll likely need to compile it from source. 01:53:46 What distribution are you using? 01:53:47 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:16 Ubuntu. It's the only one that had enough PPC support... 01:54:33 Oh, dear. Isn't that port abandoned? 01:54:42 By the looks of things. 01:54:56 Gentoo was next in line, but they're likely to drop it as well. 01:55:00 Did you look at Fedora? 01:55:28 If all else fails, Debian would be the default distribution of choice. 01:55:33 It's certainly a thought, I'm fond of both. 01:57:53 This DOES help tremendously, though. I've been using Elisp for a long time now and wanted to get the real meat of the language. 01:58:27 I've got a PPC system running an oldish Ubuntu, in fact. Let's see how long it takes to compile PLT 4.2.5. 01:58:44 If you'd do that, I'd be grateful. 02:01:51 Intertricity [Intertrici@c-65-34-236-148.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:01:58 What's the most mature scheme for CLR? 02:02:11 Is there more than one? 02:02:21 Oh, I'm forgetting Common Larceny. 02:02:45 Hey all, where can I read about how to use define-syntax? 02:02:54 Well I've seen Common Larceny, Bigloo, and IronScheme so far 02:02:58 seangrove: What level of detail are you looking for? 02:03:42 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:04:07 Just how to use it 02:04:11 I'm messing mine up 02:04:27 http://pastie.org/private/ap5jv7klf1yvp8imt54ka 02:04:36 Intertricity: I've no idea about the maturity of Bigloo for .NET. Common Larceny is, as I understand it, very immature and slow. IronScheme seems to be more mature, but lacks `call/cc'. On the plus side, the author (leppie) is here frequently. 02:04:41 lisppaste: url? 02:04:42 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 02:04:47 seangrove: ^ for future reference 02:04:53 Heh, I know about lisp paste 02:04:59 I just haven't integrated it into emacs yet :P 02:05:03 My bad for being lazy 02:05:20 Ok, I see there's one out there 02:05:23 Installing it now 02:05:26 I can't spot at a glance if you've got a paren error here or not. 02:05:33 chandler, so there's pretty much no stable Scheme for the clr? 02:06:06 Intertricity: I don't see how you can conclude that from what I said. 02:06:23 Well, complete 02:06:24 seangrove: Are you intending this macro to be called as (with-camera-matrix foo bar baz) or similar? 02:06:51 Yes, exactly 02:07:08 seangrove pasted "define-syntax beginner" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97475 02:07:13 seangrove: Ah. Put a `...' after `body', both in the template and its expansion. 02:07:16 are there scheme interfaces for ncurses? 02:07:29 Ah, I never noticed the paren highlighting on lisp.pate 02:07:30 paste* 02:07:35 That's very useful, yes. 02:07:53 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-253.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:08:20 -!- doc_who_ is now known as doc_who 02:08:54 seangrove annotated #97475 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97475#1 02:08:55 doc_who_: I'm sure there are some, but the question I always ask when I hear this question is "Do you really need to work with ancient terminals that *aren't* of the ANSI flavor, or use terminal extensions beyond ANSI?" 02:09:01 Like that? 02:09:20 seangrove: Whoops, no. I was using `foo' as a means of quoting foo. Read them as TeX single quotes. 02:09:39 oh what is the alternative? 02:09:43 seangrove: In the original, change "body" to "body ..." (without the quotes). 02:09:56 its the only thing i know of to make a console app 02:10:04 Ah 02:11:31 seangrove annotated #97475 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97475#2 02:12:18 Well, I have an extra paren for one thing, it seems 02:12:35 seangrove: Oh, yes. Now wrap all the forms in the expansion in a "begin", e.g. (begin (gl:PushMatrix) (your-other-functions-here) body ... (gl:PopMatrix)) 02:12:37 just pass ANSI escape codes to make a UI? 02:12:52 doc_who: I've done it before. You'll need to figure out how to set your terminal into raw mode. 02:13:02 Hey, that seems to have worked 02:13:04 Thanks chandel ;) 02:13:09 chandler* 02:13:18 -!- Azuvix [~user@174-19-239-187.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:28 doc_who: Binding to ncurses can be a pain. If you find a binding, though, go ahead and use it. 02:13:32 doc_who: What implementation are you using? 02:13:44 plt 02:13:44 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 02:14:41 doc_who: I'm not aware of any existing ncurses binding for PLT. 02:15:07 everybody pretty much rolls their own. 02:15:19 for some minute value of "everybody" 02:16:40 hmmm ive never written bindings before 02:17:00 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:17:06 or made any real software 02:17:19 What are you intending to do with this? 02:17:38 i was thinking of trying a simple irc client in scheme 02:17:45 That's definitely cleaned up the code quite a bit 02:18:00 do you think that would be a feasible first project for a beginner? 02:18:01 doc_who: My first projecrt was writing selenium rc binding for scheme 02:18:01 doc_who: Simple IRC client, you mean, like netcat? *grins, ducks, and runs* 02:18:14 I imagine irc might be a similarly good first project 02:18:44 ive never used netcat 02:18:45 seangrove : wrap the result forms in a begin 02:18:51 doc_who: Rather than diving into curses, why not start with a GUI application, and then figure out how to map it to a terminal interface? 02:18:52 doc_who: Why not use scheme/graphics? 02:18:56 IJP: You're far, far too late. 02:19:04 *Daemmerung* needs a "Jinx" button 02:19:13 chandler: whoops 02:19:26 doc_who: There you go. Implement a graphical IRC client with a Jinx button. 02:19:31 lol 02:19:46 Thats what I get for being on reddit 02:20:05 ...wretched hive of scum and villainy, etc., etc. 02:20:21 hmmm thats a good idea as well 02:20:40 IJP: Yes, well, reddit will teach you how to tl;dr and comment, but we don't really appreciate that 'round these parts. 02:20:42 the UI doesnt matter so much as making the backend function 02:21:26 doc_who: You like backend stuff? ITA Software had a job puzzles page where one of their puzzles is "Roll your own chat server". If you implement that, you might even get a job with them! :-P 02:21:34 doc_who: There isn't an IRC library on planet as far as I can tell, but you might be able to steal some source from rudybot. 02:21:37 rudybot: source 02:21:37 chandler: git clone git://github.com/offby1/rudybot.git 02:21:46 scheme/graphics is pretty easy to use, and has lots of sample code. Unlike any ncurses binding. Of course, if you're already a ncurses stud, never mind. 02:22:26 Daemmerung: Shirely you're thinking of scheme/gui? 02:22:47 *Daemmerung* blames smoke inhalation 02:23:16 A-yep. 02:23:37 Daemmerung: ...smoke of the magical persuasion? :-P 02:23:38 shire-ly? is that in a hobbitish fashion? 02:24:12 prince [~prince@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 02:24:36 apparently scheme/gui is a version of wxwidgets 02:24:38 cky: No, my aerobic capacity is poor enough already without that. I'm burning slash. 02:24:45 foof: Heh, no, just ordinary transposition error. 02:25:02 doc_who: It used to be. The code has since diverged. 02:25:40 apparently PLT Scheme is a version of libscheme 02:28:35 uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 02:29:19 How widely supported is (define-syntax (foo stx) ...) ? 02:29:36 or are you stuck with (define-syntax foo (lambda (stx) ...)) 02:29:57 Assuming the system has syntax-case of course 02:30:11 rcassidy [~rcassidy@pool-72-85-200-203.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:30:31 -!- rcassidy [~rcassidy@pool-72-85-200-203.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:37:37 -!- cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:41 cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 02:43:13 chandler: Are you still doing most of your work in Common Lisp or do you have a preferred Scheme that you are now using for real work? 02:43:51 Most of my work is done in C for an embedded target. I'm doing some ancillary things in PLT Scheme. 02:46:13 I must say, I was surprised today (or was it yesterday?) when I logged onto Cuil and did a search; encyclopedia results? Interesting.... 02:48:00 Cuil?! 02:48:42 chandler: Yes, Cuil. Got a problem with it? :-) 02:48:54 Uh... 02:50:44 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has left #scheme 02:50:51 sundaymorning [~root@189.107.132.204] has joined #scheme 02:51:50 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #scheme 02:52:48 timj__ [~timj@e176222055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:54:54 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:56:30 -!- timj_ [~timj@e176205092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:00:58 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:03:39 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:07:47 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:08 bzzbzz` [~user@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:09:12 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 03:15:01 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:18:21 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:49 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-170-024.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:25:31 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:25:56 offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 03:26:14 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:26:14 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 03:28:35 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.81.40] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 03:31:32 Cpedia is bizarre. Very Dissociated Press. 03:35:06 Wow. That is a whole new dimension of fail. 03:35:15 Daemmerung: It's a little strange, but actually, I did find it useful for a few searches. 03:35:29 arcfide: Have you looked at DuckDuckGo? 03:38:13 chandler: I haven't. What's it about? 03:38:34 It's another off-the-beaten-track search engine. 03:38:43 https://duckduckgo.com/ 03:38:47 It seems to be less friendly to my Lynx browser. 03:39:11 OK, this is the point where I bow out from this conversation. 03:39:18 I thought you used Opera anyway. 03:39:24 chandler: I do. 03:39:37 :-) I use LYnx and Opera. 03:39:42 Depending on the needs and situation. 03:40:02 What situation in this day and age warrants Lynx? 03:40:09 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:40:31 The same situations that demand that a blog be published via gopher://, I reckon. 03:40:37 It's quite a convenient tool for doing information only browsing. I especially like it when I get a web page that I want to print out, but that doesn't have the right settings. 03:40:44 -!- sundaymorning [~root@189.107.132.204] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:41:08 I still use lynx on my bsd box. 03:41:39 just because it's a text-only box. 03:41:54 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:10 And by "use," I mean "the box that sits in the corner running slimserver that I almost never access." 03:49:18 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:47 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 03:53:10 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 03:53:26 chandler: You have an interesting Cpedia page. 03:55:32 That's, uh, hm. 03:55:42 Are you sure this isn't a Markov chain? 03:56:00 *arcfide* shrugs. 03:56:09 Who knows what they are using. It's also classified as Alpha. 03:56:41 If Cuil's good at anything, it's putting Alpha and Beta quality software out there for the public to laugh at. 03:57:23 And yet you asked me why I boggled at your use of Cuil. 03:57:48 Well, yeah. :-) People also accuse Opera of releasing their software too fast, as well as Apple. 03:58:14 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@dsl-173-206-227-128.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:23 I don't know if you hang out in the Opera Newsgroups, but people are having a field day with the latest releases and snapshots. 03:58:40 Cuil seems to have hidden their actual search results now. 03:59:00 chandler: It's a setting. You can set in your preferences whether to show Cpedia results or regular web results. 03:59:34 That's useless to me, since I always set my browsers up to clear cookies and other state information when I close them. :-) 03:59:59 I can see why some would be complaining about the latest Opera releases. Personally, I'm just waiting for the hidden Enable On Demand Plugin option to start working. 04:00:12 Hehe. :-) Well, I find it runny, as well, that they would put alpha results up there as their first results, especially given that their regular search results have improved significantly since they got all the bad press. 04:00:37 s/runny/funny/ 04:00:47 but runny was funny 04:01:18 Cuil and most other new search engines are uninteresting to me. My primary complaint about Google is that it's too smart; that is, it too often thinks it knows better than me what I had intended to search for. Most new search engines seem predicated on taking that flaw to an extreme. 04:02:46 I could see why you wouldn't like the way search engines are going then. :-) 04:02:46 -!- _paradox_ [untouchabl@dhcp-129-64-166-29.dorm.brandeis.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:22 -!- Armageddon00 [~danking@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:03:48 untouchable [untouchabl@129.64.166.29] has joined #scheme 04:04:02 Armageddon00 [~danking@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 04:04:02 I generally use search engines either to find a very specific site, or to get a broad picture of a topic. Cuil generally works well for the latter, and for the former, while Cuil usually works well for me, Google generally always works. 04:04:24 s/Google generally/Google almost/ 04:04:32 runny is funny but liquor is quicker 04:04:49 offby1: I'm going to have to start collecting offby1-isms. 04:05:16 well, allow me to quote and cite that properly: "Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker." -- Ogden Nash 04:05:17 that's an Ogden Nash-ism, if I'm not mistaken. 04:05:22 chandler: jinx 04:05:37 *offby1* casts "detect fogey" at chandler 04:05:41 the channel is full of 'em! 04:05:49 Where's my PLT IRC client with a Jinx button? 04:05:57 hmm 04:06:05 don't tempt me 04:06:13 -!- MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:06:15 doc_who is supposedly writing just such a thing. 04:06:29 I really need to get around to writing my IRC bot. 04:06:49 will it have a "High Five" button, and "Slap" and "Curse" buttons? It really should 04:07:02 arcfide: when you finish, we can have it and rudybot duel. 04:07:10 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 04:07:48 offby1: I'm not so much a fogey as someone who has memorized a number of fortunes via sheer repetition. 04:09:08 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 04:09:58 you can pass for one whenever you want, though! Imagine the prescription-drug discounts that await 04:11:03 Not to mention the all-you-can-eat chicken fried steak. 04:15:13 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:23:26 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:24:49 -!- bzzbzz` [~user@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:44:39 fabe [~fabe@p54A7E180.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 04:46:31 -!- uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:48:08 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 04:51:53 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:52:22 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 04:54:14 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:28 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 05:13:25 Colloguy [~flx@64.134.236.48] has joined #scheme 05:14:42 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:19 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:44 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:24:20 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7E180.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:32 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 05:34:17 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:35:34 -!- dysinger [~tim@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:43:32 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 05:46:48 crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 05:47:59 dysinger [~tim@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:48:11 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 05:49:41 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 06:05:57 minion: chant 06:05:58 MORE PROBLEMS 06:06:00 :D 06:06:04 I support this campaign platform 06:11:28 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-119-86.sa.westnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:05 uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 06:16:33 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.61] has joined #scheme 06:24:54 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:25:28 Candidate Jay-Z in 2012: I got 99 problems, but a Mayan Apocalypse Ain't One 06:25:45 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 06:31:37 -!- Colloguy [~flx@64.134.236.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:35:10 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:41:53 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 06:47:15 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 06:53:22 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:57:47 -!- adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:58:54 adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 06:59:42 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.122] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:01:55 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:04:38 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 07:06:39 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.117] has joined #scheme 07:08:25 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:09:37 -!- adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:09:53 adzuci [~ada2358@login.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 07:10:29 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:50 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:14:08 -!- OneSadCookie is now known as OSC|away 07:22:54 Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-106.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 07:23:12 wingo [~wingo@83.34.178.60] has joined #scheme 07:23:19 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-208-80.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:23:55 -!- cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Quit: Vision[0.9.7-H-090423]: i've been blurred!] 07:26:35 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36:14 -!- uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:46 -!- wingo [~wingo@83.34.178.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:42:36 -!- OSC|away is now known as OneSadCookie 07:46:37 -!- sloyd [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 07:48:33 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-75-49-205.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.8 -- Are we there yet?] 07:59:57 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 08:00:46 sloyd [~sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has joined #scheme 08:04:45 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #scheme 08:11:13 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 08:12:17 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:20:35 -!- IJP [~Ian@host86-174-203-114.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:22:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:22:39 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:33:51 -!- nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:18 Colloguy [~flx@adsl-99-30-229-136.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:36:22 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 08:37:23 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 08:46:12 -!- Mohamdu [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-106.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:46:35 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-106.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 08:48:51 nebogeo [~dave@cs181215205.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 08:51:33 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:00:53 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:17 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 09:05:54 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-106.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:22:10 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-43.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 09:22:10 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 09:22:52 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-114-72.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:24:27 Jafet1 [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 09:25:51 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:26:02 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 09:27:43 alaricsp [~alaric@router1.hotdesktop.biz] has joined #scheme 09:30:50 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 09:32:05 -!- dysinger [~tim@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:33:42 Jafet1 [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 09:33:44 dysinger [~tim@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 09:33:53 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:02 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 09:34:25 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 09:34:51 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 09:35:05 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 09:36:57 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:47 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 09:42:43 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-43.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 09:44:35 -!- dysinger [~tim@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:46:13 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-43.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:57:08 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:00:41 -!- ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:36 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 10:09:23 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers_ [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:11 -!- PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f055027022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:11:24 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 10:11:31 jmcphers_ [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 10:14:03 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 10:15:09 PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f055119029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 10:15:15 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-43.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:44 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:20:34 -!- foof [~user@lain.inunome.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:23:10 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:24:29 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 10:25:10 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:28 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 10:36:45 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 10:38:29 alvatar [~alvatar@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 10:41:00 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 10:42:25 phao [~phao@189.107.158.123] has joined #scheme 10:45:43 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:47 nego [~nego@c-76-16-30-244.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:07:23 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:07:39 foof [~user@lain.inunome.com] has joined #scheme 11:28:52 -!- jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:13 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-114-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:32 towodo [~anonymous@209-6-213-168.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 11:44:31 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 11:45:41 jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has joined #scheme 11:47:16 -!- pharon [~pharon@dsl092-075-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 11:48:48 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-225.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:48:56 -!- sah0s [~anto@92.251.222.154.threembb.ie] has quit [Quit: sah0s] 11:56:08 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:57:05 MononcQc [~ftrottier@207.253.180.96] has joined #scheme 11:57:35 how do I return unispecified? 11:57:44 (void), in some schemes 11:58:12 I was doing 11:58:14 Otherwise (values) can be a good way to do that, IIRC 11:58:22 (define unispec (cond ((#f) #f))) 11:58:31 That could work too 11:58:32 hehe 11:58:42 could work? 11:58:48 I didn't try it 11:58:53 what is the problem with that? 11:58:56 (if #f #f) 11:59:14 I didn't know I could use if that way 11:59:24 You can 12:00:14 I need that because I'm making something like a list cond 12:00:22 I give it to list and a predicate 12:00:30 and a value 12:00:47 if (pred value current-element-of-thelist) (return the current element of the other list) 12:00:58 so I needed something to return if nothing matches 12:01:00 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 12:01:11 btw, is there any built in for that? 12:01:32 I don't really understand 12:01:40 Can you give a concrete example? 12:01:45 hmm yes 12:02:26 (list-cond 'c '(a b c) (list 1 2 3) eq?) 12:02:29 will return 3. 12:02:42 I see 12:02:52 Normally you'd use alists for that 12:03:21 what is that? 12:03:25 (alist-ref 'c (map cons '(a b c) (list 1 2 3)) eq?) 12:03:32 An alist is a list of pairs 12:03:45 The car of the pair is an identifier you use for looking up the cdr of that pair 12:03:54 like a dictionary? 12:03:56 yes 12:04:26 The above example reduces to (alist-ref 'c '((a . 1) (b . 2) (c . 3)) eq?) 12:04:28 that's not standard, sure? 12:04:39 alist-ref isn't standard, but assq is 12:04:53 That works the same except you get the entire pair instead of the cdr 12:05:17 xwl [~user@125.34.169.128] has joined #scheme 12:05:18 incubot: (assq 'c '((a . 1) (b . 2) (c . 3))) 12:05:19 (c . 3) 12:05:27 ok 12:05:40 thx 12:05:43 yw 12:05:59 If you're using a scheme that has something like alist-ref I'd recommend you use it 12:06:12 It'll be more readable and more convenient for you 12:06:21 And assq always uses eq?. 12:06:25 yeah 12:06:38 ok 12:06:41 srfi-1 has member, which is generalized to accept a predicate 12:06:52 with alist-ref you can specify the comparison procedure. 12:16:58 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:36 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:22 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 12:24:21 -!- xray7224 [~xray7224@unaffiliated/xray7224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:26 xray7224 [~xray7224@unaffiliated/xray7224] has joined #scheme 12:25:57 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #scheme 12:28:48 -!- towodo [~anonymous@209-6-213-168.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:38:27 luz [~davids@189.122.81.40] has joined #scheme 12:42:20 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-80-99-198-11.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 12:46:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-80-99-198-11.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:51:23 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:54:09 chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has joined #scheme 13:01:26 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 13:11:54 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 13:14:09 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 13:20:54 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:24:17 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 13:46:49 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #scheme 13:56:50 leppie [~lolcow@196-210-186-123-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:00:36 dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-201-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:05:02 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:24 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 14:29:43 pavelludiq1 [~c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-aqhvcznlfatdxlzr] has joined #scheme 14:32:09 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-251.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 14:34:44 -!- nebogeo [~dave@cs181215205.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:39 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.81.40] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:38:36 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 14:43:26 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:40 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:46:46 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 14:51:46 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:54:34 luz [~davids@189.122.81.40] has joined #scheme 14:55:29 minion: memo for Azuvix: if you're interested, I've plopped a PPC binary of PLT 4.2.5 at http://unmutual.info/content/binaries/plt-4.2.5-linux-ppc.tgz 14:55:29 Remembered. I'll tell Azuvix when he/she/it next speaks. 14:58:57 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:21 -!- crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:48 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:02:07 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.61] has quit [Quit: off] 15:02:19 uman [~uman@uawifi-nat-210-16.arizona.edu] has joined #scheme 15:02:19 -!- uman [~uman@uawifi-nat-210-16.arizona.edu] has quit [Changing host] 15:02:19 uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 15:05:50 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:21 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:22 Daemmeru` [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 15:11:10 scheibo [~scheibo@dsl-173-206-227-128.tor.primus.ca] has joined #scheme 15:20:19 -!- pavelludiq1 [~c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-aqhvcznlfatdxlzr] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:22:16 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:22:50 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:04 normally I'd use "member" for what phao was talking about 15:23:12 rudybot: eval (member? 'a (list 'a 'b 'c)) 15:23:14 *offby1: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: member? in module: 'program 15:23:18 pff 15:23:21 rudybot: eval (member 'a (list 'a 'b 'c)) 15:23:21 *offby1: ; Value: (a b c) 15:24:27 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:25:49 -!- xwl [~user@125.34.169.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:26:47 ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #scheme 15:28:45 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:29:28 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:35 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:08 alvatar [~alvatar@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 15:30:56 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:34:54 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:35:18 sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:36:26 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 15:37:35 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:38:11 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:40:50 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:46 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:12 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:50:16 alvatar [~alvatar@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 15:50:58 -!- uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:54:23 -!- Daemmeru` is now known as Daemmerung 15:54:54 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 15:54:59 alvatar [~alvatar@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 15:57:37 -!- m811 [~user@150.181.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: "If you put a million monkeys at a million keyboards, one of them will eventually write a Java program. The rest of them will write Perl programs."] 15:58:34 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00:00 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:01:52 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-5-225.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:02:42 -!- prince [~prince@203.246.179.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:03:34 x2cast [~alvaro@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:04:32 prince [~prince@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 16:04:56 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:05:30 fabe [~fabe@p54A7E180.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 16:06:47 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:16 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:14:08 -!- OneSadCookie is now known as OSC|away 16:17:14 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-133-85.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:17:43 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:18:59 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 16:20:45 sikilpaake [~carlos@189.146.184.29] has joined #scheme 16:20:47 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:52 Daemmeru` [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 16:21:02 -!- sikilpaake [~carlos@189.146.184.29] has left #scheme 16:21:38 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 16:23:15 cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has joined #scheme 16:26:59 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:14 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:31:34 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:32:26 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:34 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:33:51 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:34:54 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@listertech.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:47:15 uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 16:53:55 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 16:54:13 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:55:59 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:21 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 17:08:56 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:11:09 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:21:57 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 17:26:09 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 17:26:26 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:26:46 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 17:26:47 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:30:56 -!- x2cast [~alvaro@150.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:25 -!- uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:33:50 -!- OSC|away is now known as OneSadCookie 17:33:53 uman [~uman@uawifi-nat-210-16.arizona.edu] has joined #scheme 17:33:58 -!- uman [~uman@uawifi-nat-210-16.arizona.edu] has quit [Changing host] 17:33:58 uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 17:34:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 17:34:34 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:35:46 jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:38:03 -!- uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Client Quit] 17:43:34 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:49:33 x2cast [~alvaro@70.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:56:13 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 17:57:16 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 18:03:01 -!- cpr420 [~cpr420@unaffiliated/cpr420] has quit [Quit: Vision[0.9.7-H-090423]: i've been blurred!] 18:03:50 wingo [~wingo@83.34.178.60] has joined #scheme 18:04:47 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:09:23 -!- x2cast [~alvaro@70.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:43 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:12:28 x2cast [~alvaro@246.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 18:15:29 seangrove pasted "nacro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97508 18:18:04 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 18:19:36 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:19:42 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:49 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:21:15 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 18:28:33 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29:45 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@dsl-173-206-227-128.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:30:18 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:49 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 18:30:51 -!- x2cast [~alvaro@246.119.20.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:33:38 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-106.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 18:37:36 postlogic [~michaekt@archlinux/user/postlogic] has joined #scheme 18:38:26 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:57 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 18:39:36 Hi, can anyone help me out with this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/97512 18:39:44 Explained in the comments on the bottom 18:39:55 (fails on line 20) 18:41:21 postlogic: You didn't paste make-state 18:41:40 That procedure is not related.. 18:41:47 It is called from make-states-list 18:41:56 likewise BSL 18:42:00 -!- Daemmeru` is now known as Daemmerung 18:42:17 Yes, but it hasn't got anything to do with this error... I get the same error if I write something using the same define structure 18:42:46 what scheme is it? 18:42:54 R5RS 18:43:02 Which. implementation. is. it. 18:43:09 :) 18:43:33 Isn't.. R5RS an implementation? >_> 18:43:45 nope, it's a specification :) 18:43:53 PLT-Scheme? 18:44:09 ah. 18:44:16 heh 18:44:18 i don't know what # means for plt. 18:44:18 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:44:29 Probably whatever (void) returns :) 18:44:36 or set!. 18:44:39 Oh crap, I'm not returning anything, am I... 18:45:02 You are, I think 18:46:13 Yes, it should be returning.. 18:46:13 postlogic: Try changing the last three lines to (let ((states (make-states-list memory-span))) (set-pointers! states 0) states) 18:46:22 Too much missing from this fragment. You claim that the missing pieces have nothing to do with the error. I dispute that. 18:46:36 I think this is a result of the rewrite of internal defines to letrec 18:47:54 sjamaan: That did it, thanks! 18:48:38 I can't quite reproduce it with a trivial example, though 18:48:45 Mebbe I'm using a different Scheme mode 18:48:48 Daemmerung: I've already tested and verified those parts, I know they are working. I fail to see how this could have anything to do with the error I was getting; however, I'm not going to even attempt making a stand here, being new to functional programming of any kind. 18:49:40 rudybot: eval (letrec ([x x]) x) 18:49:43 eli: your scheme/base sandbox is ready 18:49:43 eli: ; Value: # 18:49:47 wingo: ^ 18:50:28 eli: That's not *quite* what he did though 18:50:31 More like 18:50:34 rudybot: eval (letrec ([x 1] [y x]) y) 18:50:44 rudybot: Wake up 18:50:46 sjamaan: your sandbox is ready 18:50:46 sjamaan: ; Value: 1 18:50:47 sjamaan: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 18:50:48 heh 18:51:26 sjamaan: I don't know who "he" is (or what he did), but I suspect that it would be more like 18:51:33 rudybot: eval (letrec ([x y] [y 1]) x) 18:51:33 eli: ; Value: # 18:51:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/97512 18:51:49 In any case, this value is unrelated to # 18:51:55 ^ that's the code under discussion 18:52:09 Aren't those two fragments equally undefined? 18:52:28 sjamaan: Good catch. 18:52:36 ty 18:53:04 chandler: No, mzscheme (in the default language) uses what became known as `letrec*'. 18:53:25 He's not using the default language here, however. He's using R5RS. 18:53:34 For inner `define', or as the semantics for all `letrec's? 18:54:02 For all -- nested definitions do expand to `letrec's. 18:54:27 eli: tx. 18:54:47 *wingo* would like to be able to raise an error in that case, at some point. 18:55:16 Ah. And why doesn't The Language Yet To Be Known As Racket use the R6RS semantics of `letrec*', which would have caused this error to be more obviously detected? 18:55:20 *wingo* would also like for (if #f #f) to be equivalent to (values) 18:55:44 chandler: i don't think even the r6rs requires detection of that error 18:55:56 wingo: and what does (list (values) ...) mean to you? 18:55:57 wingo: instead of initializing letrec frames to #, init them to something which, applied, raises a letrec-savvy exception 18:56:09 chandler: (list ...) 18:56:11 er 18:56:13 what :) 18:56:15 chandler: an error. 18:56:26 too few values to continuation. 18:56:48 Daemmerung: i prefer the "fixing letrec reloaded" approach 18:56:49 So why not just forbid one-armed `if's ala TLYTBKAR? 18:56:58 haha 18:57:09 then what would you do for `when' 18:57:16 wingo: "Implementations must, during the evaluation of an expression, detect references to the value of the corresponding or the of any of the bindings that follow it in ." 18:57:18 that's the question i'm interested in. 18:57:24 chandler: i stand corrected! 18:58:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:58:52 I think having (when #f #f) -> no values would be sensible if and only if the continuation of `c' in (begin c some-other-forms ...) accepts any number of values. 18:59:01 pronounced "tuh-LIT-buh-KAR" 18:59:49 Which is totally different than and not to be confuse with "tuh-LIT-buh-KDR". 19:00:31 chandler: (list (when #f #f)) should raise an error imo 19:00:54 composed via tuh-LIT-buh-KONS (the magnificent) 19:01:09 hm, what's TLYTBKAR? I guess I'd like it, I despise one-armed `if's 19:01:25 stepnem: The Language Yet To Be Known As Racket 19:01:33 *wingo* doesn't like the temporal associations of "when" 19:01:33 chandler: ah... hehe 19:01:52 wingo: Making (if E1 E2) expand to (if E1 E2 (values)) is a nice way to strongly discourage using one-sided `if's. 19:01:57 that makes it very clear 19:02:32 wingo: Unless you want `c' to be evaluated before `b' in (when b c), it *is* a sequencing form. 19:02:43 eli: i don't see that it would have much of an effect; one-arm ifs are for effect, and usually in a context in which their value is discarded anyway 19:02:52 chandler: I thought that R6RS's `letrec*' is equivalent as what mzscheme uses for `letrec'. 19:02:56 chandler: good point. 19:03:02 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:03:03 eli, you are correct 19:03:09 rudybot: eval (letrec* ((x x)) x) 19:03:12 chandler: your scheme sandbox is ready 19:03:12 chandler: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: letrec* in module: 'program 19:03:21 rudybot: eval (letrec ((x x)) x) 19:03:21 chandler: ; Value: # 19:03:45 also, plt does not check the restriction on plain `letrec' that the r6 specifies 19:04:10 chandler: IIUC (but I didn't look much into it), the intention of `letrec*' is to leave the result of that unspecified. 19:04:22 No; it's required to be checked by the R6RS. 19:04:27 rudybot: init http://paste.lisp.org/display/97515/raw 19:04:29 chandler: error: program:3:8: import: ill-formed library reference at: (rnrs 6) in: (import (rnrs 6)) 19:04:34 Grr. 19:05:25 Hm. PLT R6RS doesn't correctly check that, though. 19:05:26 *wingo* should sneak when and unless into guile, finally... 19:05:48 chandler, right, it just implements letrec as letrec* 19:06:01 "Implementations must, during the evaluation of an expression, detect references to the value of the corresponding or the of any of the bindings that follow it in . If an implementation detects such a violation of the restriction, it must raise an exception with condition type &assertion." 19:06:14 http://www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs/r6rs-Z-H-14.html#node_sec_11.4.6 19:06:40 samth: `letrec' and `letrec*' have visibly different semantics in the R6RS, though. 19:06:57 chandler, http://docs.plt-scheme.org/r6rs/conformance.html?q=r6rs 19:07:00 (letrec ((x 1) (y x)) x) *must* result in a condition of type &assertion being rased. 19:07:12 yes, it's a documented non-conformance 19:07:18 Ah. 19:07:50 "Raised", even. Or perhaps "razed", if you take a particular dislike to the R6RS's condition system. 19:08:38 wingo: BTW, having a separate # and # (rather than a single # value) is something that bugged me for a long time, and typed scheme made the need for two different values very clear. 19:09:06 i love it when i can help confused people :) 19:09:12 (In a way that justified my use of # for uninitialized class slots in swindle.) 19:09:22 samth: What's the reasoning behind implementing `letrec' as `letrec*', and why not actually check the semantic restriction in TLYTBKAR? 19:10:09 chandler, you'd have to ask matthew, but i would guess it's that it would be hard to implement as a macro without major performance loss 19:10:10 samth: actually, swindle does something very similar -- you can specify a "type" for a slot (as a predicate), and # is taken as satisfying all such predicates. 19:10:36 eli, i think of the way undefined inhabits all types as a soundness bug 19:11:03 typed scheme should implement the dybvig/ghoulum algo. and have Undefined as a type 19:12:13 samth: unlikely; "fixing letrec reloaded" has the details 19:12:24 i would bet matthew has seen it but not gotten around to it. 19:12:50 samth: Yes, yes, but that still does not eliminate the implicit justification of having # to begin with. (IOW, using # for both would have made the language more broken.) 19:13:05 eli, yes 19:13:16 they're very different 19:13:17 eli: interesting, regarding types, swindle, and typed scheme. 19:13:48 wingo, i doubt he plans to change that 19:14:06 you would know better than i :) 19:14:14 and fixing letrec reloaded is about letrec* 19:14:21 Actually, I should have taken the swindle hint for why it's good to have them separate, but somehow it didn't click at the time -- I'd just made # satisfy all such predicates... 19:15:58 -!- rt7 [~rt7@Free.Arethusa-VPN.with.mirkforce.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:46 rt7 [~rt7@Free.Arethusa-VPN.with.mirkforce.de] has joined #scheme 19:19:34 I have been reading # as # all this time. Apparently expectations can override little things like reading skills. 19:19:39 *Daemmerung* cleans his reading glasses 19:20:03 So let's just call it # 19:20:15 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 19:20:26 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:26 scheibo [~scheibo@dsl-173-206-227-128.tor.primus.ca] has joined #scheme 19:26:40 jafet pasted "with-self" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97518 19:27:23 How should I write this macro? Currently any use, like (with-self (cons 1 self)), produces an error "Unbound variable self". 19:27:36 I want to create objects which refer to themselves. 19:28:20 samth annotated #97518 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97518#1 19:28:28 Jafet, like that 19:29:22 samth annotated #97518 "using letrec" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97518#2 19:29:31 that one avoids set! 19:30:10 Er, that does not seem to work here. The #f value of self is eagerly bound in (expr ...) 19:30:38 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:30:39 really? 19:31:00 in both, all references to `self' are delayed by `lambda' 19:32:12 nebogeo [~dave@cs78174123.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:32:22 That was what I was expecting, but (with-self self (cons 1 self)) with your definition evaluates to (1 . #f) 19:33:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:43 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-24-199-203-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:36:12 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:36:36 ah yes, you need to use the letrec version 19:37:28 rudybot: init scheme 19:37:43 Let's see... 19:37:45 wait, no, that doesn't work either 19:38:05 if you want circular values, you'll need to do the mutation of structures explicitly 19:38:11 or used scheme/shared 19:38:23 assuming that rudybot ever sees fit to get back to me 19:38:51 that's what `shared' does 19:39:08 it makes rudybot time out?? good to know. 19:40:34 -!- rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:40:48 Hm. I could make the object expose a self member, which I set later 19:41:49 rudybot [~luser@offby1.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 19:44:04 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:44:08 But why the error message "unbound variable: self" 19:44:46 your first example was trying to capture an identifier that doesn't appear in the macro input 19:45:00 Oh right, self in the syntax gets turned into something else 19:45:20 Could I force it to use 'self anyway? 19:45:27 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/guide/pattern-macros.html?q=macro#%28part._.Lexical_.Scope%29 19:45:31 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:45:34 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ylfd6uy 19:45:48 yes, but it's probably better to allow the user to specify the name 19:48:28 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.158.123] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:49:41 Well, I am the only user. 19:50:30 syntax-case 19:51:25 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:51:44 Jafet, in that case you need to learn how to write unhygenic macros 19:52:00 as Daemmerung says, you should look up `syntax-case' 19:52:51 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 19:54:49 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 19:55:34 This macro doesn't need to be unhygienic, but it's a pain to write without good utilities. 19:56:08 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-24-199-203-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 19:58:47 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:20 dudrenov [~user@adsl-99-147-43-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:59:45 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 19:59:52 -!- postlogic [~michaekt@archlinux/user/postlogic] has left #scheme 19:59:53 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:01:31 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:59 sah0s [~anto@92.251.202.78.threembb.ie] has joined #scheme 20:08:33 -!- bzzbzz is now known as meta4 20:09:39 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:06 seangrove pasted "history" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97521 20:13:24 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 20:13:56 ...... 20:14:03 This is the third time 20:14:26 That I've tried to delete an s-expr with C-M- 20:14:56 and you restarted your machine. 20:15:20 Option "DontZap" "true" iirc. 20:15:36 ah no, that's C-M-backspace. 20:15:42 you need to edit inittab 20:16:46 Well, xmms was still running, so it was okay 20:17:41 I sometimes close firefox tabs with C-w when editing forms. But restarting the machine is much more radical. :-) 20:17:53 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 20:17:57 C-q is next to C-w on my layout 20:17:57 heh, indeed :P 20:18:16 :-) 20:26:38 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.81.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:17 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:10 phao [~phao@189.107.150.153] has joined #scheme 20:31:13 -!- MononcQc [~ftrottier@207.253.180.96] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:31:19 luz [~davids@189.122.81.40] has joined #scheme 20:31:50 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-251.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:32:12 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-251.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:40:20 jafet annotated #97518 "look ma no set!" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97518#3 20:40:26 Jafet: C-M-k 20:40:51 Thanks 20:41:05 That adds it to the kills? 20:41:47 It does 20:41:48 "C-M-k runs the command kill-sexp" 20:42:17 Jafet: You don't see the `set!' there? It's spelled `define', and in your previous annotation, it's spelled `letrec'. 20:43:01 That was samth's, and letrec doesn't allow self-recursion 20:43:16 ... What? 20:43:43 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@82-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #scheme 20:44:03 Does scheme literally define define in terms of set!? 20:44:39 Inner defines are defined in terms of `letrec'. 20:44:52 `letrec' is essentially defined in terms of `set!'. 20:45:53 Your last paste is equivalent to samth's. If you don't believe that, you should try some experiments or reread the RnRS. 20:47:23 Hm, they are equivalent when the letrec one is fixed 20:48:45 -!- meta4 [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:49:03 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:49:30 -!- bzzbzz is now known as Guest69201 20:49:38 -!- Colloguy [~flx@adsl-99-30-229-136.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:50:47 -!- Guest69201 [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:51:50 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:51:54 Ok, thanks chandler, samth 20:53:23 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:54:09 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:55:50 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:37 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:58:10 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:00 Axioplas1_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 20:59:26 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:59:28 MononcQc [~mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:00:37 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 21:00:44 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:45 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:45 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:45 -!- bunz [~bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:47 bunzz [~bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has joined #scheme 21:06:10 -!- OneSadCookie is now known as OSC|away 21:08:15 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: my favourite color is blue......NO, YELLOWWWWWWWWW] 21:09:15 fschwidom [~fschwidom@p5B26AB46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:12:49 Intertricity_ [Intertrici@c-65-34-236-148.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:15:21 -!- Intertricity [Intertrici@c-65-34-236-148.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:21:12 -!- scheibo [~scheibo@dsl-173-206-227-128.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:46 *Daemmerung* looks out the window at the blowing snow. Ah, springtime! 21:22:49 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@user-0c2h0f1.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 21:23:38 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 21:23:45 Daemmerung, where are you that it snows? 21:24:06 samth: north central Washington state 21:24:18 elevation 700m 21:24:41 latitude 49 deg minus epsilon 21:25:02 *gnomon* lines up the ICBM launcher 21:25:10 ...well... 21:25:16 ...the CBM, perhaps. 21:25:36 gnomon: careful you don't fry any fellow Canucks with splash damage 21:28:08 Pshaw! The population density up here is so low that a randomly aimed rocket is more liable to hit a moose than a person. 21:28:34 Possibly also a squirrel. 21:28:47 moose and squirrel? 21:28:56 Just make sure it isn't endangered or native to the Inuit. 21:28:59 :) 21:29:00 schmir [~schmir@p54A92135.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:29:06 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 21:29:19 Too bad Canadaland cancelled its entire fighter/bomber project in the 70s, just to give the yankees a head start. 21:29:34 Shut up. That's a very sore point. 21:29:49 *gnomon* grumps 21:29:53 There are moose in Manning PP, so yeah, you might make mooseburgers. 21:30:45 manning provincial park 21:31:01 *Daemmerung* effed up his kbd focus again 21:31:35 Mmm, mooseburgers sound like a really good idea. 21:34:18 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 21:39:46 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #scheme 21:44:11 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:44:22 It's curious how, while reading SICP, it becames obvious that many people out there don't learn how to program. 21:47:54 s/people/programmers, even professional ones,/ 21:49:36 yeah, another thing is that they confuse learning how to program and learning a programming language 21:49:36 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #scheme 21:49:41 (I made that mistake in the past) 21:50:46 -!- dzhus [~sphinx@95-26-201-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:52:31 Intertricity [Intertrici@c-65-34-236-148.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:53:29 At least now I know that I don't know how to program. 21:54:28 why you say that? 21:55:28 -!- Intertricity_ [Intertrici@c-65-34-236-148.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:56:33 Learning is not the cure for all ignorance, but merely a cause for humility. 21:57:13 I didn't understand what you mean. 21:57:19 meant* 21:59:01 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 21:59:28 -!- bzzbzz is now known as Guest27317 21:59:52 phao: Reading SICP should not teach you about the ignorance of your fellow programmers, but rather that there was much you don't know and much you still don't know. 22:00:20 I teaches me both of those. 22:00:29 -!- Guest27317 [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #scheme 22:00:39 maybe the writers didn't write it in a way to not teach me the first thing you talked about. 22:00:40 chandler++ 22:00:48 It's easy to find a cause for humility, but unfortunately there still is no cure. 22:01:55 -!- fschwidom [~fschwidom@p5B26AB46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:22 "The three chief virtues of a programmer are... laziness, impatience and hubris." 22:04:46 bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:05:19 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-170-225.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:42 -!- Intertricity [Intertrici@c-65-34-236-148.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:07:36 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 22:07:54 Jafet: This isn't #perl. I would consider none of those virtues. 22:08:35 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 22:09:02 Intertricity [Intertrici@c-65-34-236-148.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:10:43 What do you consider virtues in a programmer? 22:11:41 annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-14-62.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:11:41 -!- annodomini [~lambda@pool-151-203-14-62.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:11:41 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 22:11:44 fides, spes, et caritas 22:13:02 google, luck and easy problems 22:14:47 Jafet: Certainly nothing that leads to an abomination like Perl. I favor clarity in communication, careful consideration of consistency and the potential global effects of a local solution, and above all the humility that accompanies a life of learning. 22:17:13 -!- Intertricity [Intertrici@c-65-34-236-148.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:17:29 I should learn doublethink as well. 22:18:42 Hm? 22:20:18 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:23:17 I find that that statement is contradictory and brashly patronizing; reeking of political correctness and the "European" school of ivory-tower programming methodology. 22:23:51 Put down that crack pipe, Jafet. 22:24:15 If you can't hate on Perl in #scheme, where can you? 22:24:23 python 22:24:31 *Daemmerung* ponders 22:25:11 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:25:25 -!- sah0s [~anto@92.251.202.78.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:43 sundaymorning [~root@189.107.132.204] has joined #scheme 22:29:13 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 22:31:15 I suspect that the usual reason for programmers to adopt this view is that their Lisp is their Blub. 22:34:36 ... 22:35:15 -!- nebogeo [~dave@cs78174123.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:54 the "virtues" of the perl programmer are specifically those that leads to things getting done 22:36:19 chandler's virtues are those that lead to things getting done well 22:36:44 it's the worst-is-better debate 22:36:57 deja vu all over again 22:39:46 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 22:42:08 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-55-243.gmavt.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:40 SharkBrain [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has joined #scheme 22:42:40 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:27 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@82-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:46:12 kanak [~user@dhcp-18-111-102-67.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 22:50:46 dysinger [~tim@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:51:55 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 22:57:00 -!- dudrenov [~user@adsl-99-147-43-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 23:01:28 dudrenov [~user@adsl-99-147-43-195.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:02:15 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:03:01 -!- wingo [~wingo@83.34.178.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:05:30 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 23:15:42 metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:22:54 -!- OSC|away is now known as OneSadCookie 23:26:38 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:50 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 23:30:39 -!- Axioplas1_ is now known as Axioplase_ 23:31:03 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 23:31:08 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 23:34:28 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-55-243.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 23:37:30 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:38:03 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:40 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7E180.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:52 -!- fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad7bb5e.bb.sky.com] has left #scheme 23:43:50 sah0s [~anto@92.251.218.4.threembb.ie] has joined #scheme 23:47:59 sav [~sav@189001131114.usr.predialnet.com.br] has joined #scheme 23:50:18 pharon [~pharon@dsl092-075-228.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 23:52:48 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:55:27 Jafet: I'm not sure I know what a Blub is (wasn't it something from a Paul Graham essay), but the rest of your objection made no sense at all to me. Can you elaborate? 23:59:45 Blub is the highest language of a programmer. The programmer's fundamental concepts are expressed in this language. The term also carries the pejorative connotation that the programmer is incapable or unwilling to learn any different concepts.