00:01:33 -!- akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:02:24 saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:14:33 akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has joined #scheme 00:17:36 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.197.173] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:49 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:24:51 -!- nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:55 TR2N [email@89-180-237-84.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 00:27:11 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-4.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:27:51 foof` [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 00:28:51 sloyd_ [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has joined #scheme 00:28:52 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 00:29:51 KatieH [~katie@cmiller.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #scheme 00:30:17 SharkBra1n [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has joined #scheme 00:31:24 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:24 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:25 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:25 -!- SharkBrain [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:25 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:25 -!- sloyd [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:25 -!- foof [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:25 dlouhy_ [~jdlouhy@129.10.116.129] has joined #scheme 00:31:37 -!- KatieHuber [~katie@cmiller.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 00:31:38 -!- KatieH is now known as KatieHuber 00:31:51 -!- acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-33-192.gmavt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:32:13 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 00:32:13 -!- dlouhy [~jdlouhy@zerowing.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 00:32:18 -!- dlouhy_ is now known as dlouhy 00:32:35 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 00:33:35 acarrico [~acarrico@pppoe-68-142-33-192.gmavt.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:25 sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-151-204-250-193.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:38:03 -!- masm [~masm@bl7-199-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:05 -!- akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:44:15 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 00:48:21 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:19 -!- wingo [~wingo@151.Red-88-17-131.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:53:22 -!- SharkBra1n [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:54:14 SharkBrain [~gerard@210.48.104.34] has joined #scheme 00:55:17 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 00:55:40 -!- Colloguy [~flx@64.134.18.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:56:41 Is there an elisp file that will automagically reformat a set of SExps over a couple lines to optimally use the 80 character width? I have a list thats got a few elements in it, but if I change the indentation level I have to respace everything. 00:59:58 -!- foof` is now known as foof 01:01:21 -!- csmrfx [csmr@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:01:56 csmrfx [csmr@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #scheme 01:12:13 Armagedd1n00: I believe it is called indent-region. 01:12:21 There are other ways to access the same functionality. 01:12:35 Sorry, but I am not an Emacs user, so this is going from a very rusty memory. 01:13:21 -!- Armagedd1n00 is now known as Armageddon00 01:16:29 arcfide: That will reindent all the lines, but if the change in indentation opens up 6 chars of space it wont move a 5 char word from the next line up, a la '(foo bar baz\nquuux) => '(foo bar baz quuux) 01:17:11 The more I think about it, it seems like it'd be hard to figure out what could be moved around safely without tokenizing the whole document 01:17:39 Armageddon00: I am fairly certain that you can do this. 01:17:41 Colloguy [~flx@64.134.235.17] has joined #scheme 01:18:04 Maybe paredit has something built in, but I remember using something like the formatting paragraph code that did this automatically when it was in Scheme mode. 01:18:08 samth: ping. 01:25:48 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:54 Checkie [3260@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 01:27:04 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.236.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:06 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:27:55 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 01:31:26 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:47 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:33:39 ros3 [~ros3@209.129.161.251] has joined #scheme 01:39:55 mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 01:39:58 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:41:59 -!- csmrfx [csmr@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:42:03 csmrfx [csmr@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #scheme 01:44:19 ribbs [~ribbs@p024062.doubleroute.jp] has joined #scheme 01:45:28 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 01:57:19 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 02:11:06 haesbaert [~haesbaert@c9155a20.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 02:17:04 eli: If you know, is there a reason why the Advanced Student Language (HtDP) doesn't allow (case ...) with characters? 02:17:31 No idea. 02:17:46 Ask on the mailing list... 02:21:17 Ok 02:30:58 Kavinorum [~kavinorum@pool-74-103-119-154.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:34:14 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-231.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:35:28 does anyone know how to create a dotted pair using (list) only? 02:37:53 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:49:16 (list '. '.) 02:51:11 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:53:31 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:07 lolwut 02:55:55 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:07 Kavinorum: What do you mean by a dotted pair here? 02:56:20 (x . y) 02:56:27 as opposed to a list 02:56:45 Kavinorum: Are you under the impression that the procedure LIST is capable of producing something other than a proper list? 02:57:01 apparently 02:57:10 Who told you this? 02:57:28 well its an assignment for my class 02:57:33 I see... 02:57:58 i'm supposed to create given s-expressions using cons only and list only 02:58:01 I imagine then, that there is some other subtlety that has been omitted here. 02:58:03 the dot just separates the car and the cdr in the intepreter youre using 02:58:09 it doesnt mean anything 02:58:20 Oh. 02:58:25 You have CONS and LIST? 02:58:26 (cons 1 2) returns (1 . 2) 02:58:27 Well then.... 02:58:32 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-4.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:58:36 yea i've got the cons 02:58:58 Do you know how the dotted pair notation relates to the condensed list notation? 02:58:59 but a list works differently because it could go on and on 02:59:01 i have to do one with cons and one with list 02:59:15 That is, do you know how some s-expresion (a . b) relates to some expression (a b)? 02:59:15 no i dont arcfide 02:59:29 other than the dot in the middle, i dont get why its there 02:59:45 -!- skld_ [~skld@unaffiliated/skld] has left #scheme 03:00:06 The notation (a . b) is the lexical syntax for a pair containg a and b, where a is in the CAR position, and b is in the CDR position. 03:00:38 ok but (a b) will give you the same thing 03:00:41 The notation (a b) is the lexical syntax for a list whose elements are a and b. 03:00:52 A list in Scheme is a linked list of pairs. 03:01:18 All proper lists have the final CDR field of the final pair filled with a () or NIL object. 03:01:29 ok so a list is a pair with an atom and a pointer? 03:01:30 (a b) => (a . (b . nil)), right? 03:01:31 (a b) = (a . (b . NIL)) 03:01:40 Guess so. 03:01:58 Well, NIL is unbound by default in most Schemes, so it's probably safer to say something like (a b) <=> (a . (b . ())). 03:02:19 It's just called "nil" or "the empty list." 03:02:55 Kavinorum: A list is either the empty list/nil, or it is a pair whose car is some elemnt -- it does not matter what -- and whose CDR is a list. 03:03:36 However, it is rather tiring to write (a . (b . (c . ...))) all the time, so we shorten it does to just writing (a b c ...). 03:03:54 Internally, they are the same thing, but simply written differently. 03:04:16 Now, you can have an improper list, whose tail may not be a list: (a b c . d) <=> (a . (b . (c . d))). 03:04:19 you should watch the SICP videos on youtube, kavinorum. sussman goes over constructors (and lists) using boxes and pointers as visual examples and they are helpful. 03:05:00 And it's time for sleep. 03:05:08 Good night everyone. 03:05:09 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:10 -!- arcfide [arcfide@99.14.208.10] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.8 -- Are we there yet?] 03:05:40 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:09:07 -!- ros3 [~ros3@209.129.161.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:17:15 -!- adzuci [~ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:18:40 adzuci [~ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:18:57 -!- MononcQc [~ferd@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:24:40 Armageddon00: ping 03:25:44 Coding in Lisp is effectually manually inputting a parse tree into some data structure. 03:26:36 Lajla: More like writing already parsed trees -- and that's not a coincidence. 03:27:01 eli, what is the difference exactly? 03:28:23 "inputting" reads to me like a program waiting for you to interactively enter expressions; and "into some data structure" is incorrect -- it should be "as some data structure". 03:29:04 I again fail to see what is the difference of inputting data into some structure or putting it as some data structure. 03:29:27 If I write a plain text file, to me, I have input characters into it basically. 03:29:30 Needn't be interractive. 03:29:45 Any way, I think we mean the same thing in different words. 03:29:55 "into" implies some container value that holds the syntax. 03:30:21 eli: pong 03:31:36 Armageddon00: What's with the `foo` vs `foo'? It's email, you know... 03:32:09 Also, using all round parens is weird in that particular context. 03:33:46 eli: Oh, I usually use `foo` for something that I intend to be read as code 03:33:47 -!- haesbaert [~haesbaert@c9155a20.virtua.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:42 Armageddon00: Yes, I'm familiar with the fashionable markdowns. They don't work as well in emails, and even worse in scheme-related emails. 03:35:21 Yeah, I didn't think about the quasi-quote stuff. 03:35:54 It's a ruby conspiracy. 03:36:44 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 03:37:59 As well, it occurs to me on second reading that the "Is this a feature?" note doesn't come off as a joke so much as an accusation. 03:38:59 I didn't read it as either. 03:40:47 Seems I need to work on my humour. 03:41:17 If that was humor, then I tend to agree with your conclusion. 03:41:39 Perhaps a homework on the subject will be relevant. 03:44:15 If you've got some lessons on humour, I'll listen. 03:50:46 Armageddon00: I somehow doubt that this will help much. 03:52:45 timj_ [~timj@e176200073.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:53:01 So little faith 03:54:03 without faith, I am nothing 03:55:39 -!- timj__ [~timj@e176208199.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:28 saint_cypher 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[~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:42 masm [~masm@bl7-92-35.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:28:55 bvalek2 [~c11a2f4d@gateway/web/freenode/x-fizlasmtaynlkoru] has joined #scheme 09:29:12 -!- bvalek2 [~c11a2f4d@gateway/web/freenode/x-fizlasmtaynlkoru] has left #scheme 09:30:15 leppie|work [~52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-fevksfuygxyfrrgp] has joined #scheme 09:31:37 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 09:32:06 -!- leppie|work [~52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-fevksfuygxyfrrgp] has quit [Client Quit] 09:37:29 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 09:45:07 -!- Colloguy [~flx@adsl-99-30-230-155.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:46:00 -!- virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:15 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 09:57:46 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:04 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 10:10:15 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 10:10:49 -!- PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f055123015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:30 PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@g230086070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 10:20:52 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:06 -!- ros3 [~ros3@208.66.28.143] has quit [Quit: ros3] 10:28:30 nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has joined #scheme 10:28:50 Hi 10:29:03 may I have some help on 'lambda'? 10:30:01 what about lambda 10:30:56 for a novice, lambda seems ambiguous, is a procedure without name? 10:34:02 yeah 10:34:32 you can bind it to a name if you want to (define name (lambda () 10:34:47 it creates a procedure without name, like (LIST 1 2 3) creates a list without name 10:35:41 -!- xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:05 xwl_ [~user@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 10:36:22 ok 10:38:20 ((lambda (x) (+ x x)) 4) => 8 10:39:19 can quite get the purpose of such an artifact 10:39:43 i meant can't 10:40:24 say you want to do a sort 10:40:26 something like nested procedures in Pascal, which will be of limited scope? 10:40:49 you can do (sort lst (lambda (a b) 10:43:16 like code blocks in ruby? 10:44:24 passing a code that gets evaluated at run time? 10:45:16 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.154] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:36 nataraj: Yes, with the difference that in Ruby methods can only have zero or one code blocks passed to them 10:46:00 In scheme, you can pass an arbitrary number of lambdas to procedures, since lambdas are just regular values 10:46:16 Ruby treats blocks "specially" 10:46:30 parameters? what type? 10:48:01 Closures make it easy to parcel up some code to do later or elsewhere 10:48:05 Imagine a list of things you need to do 10:48:20 In C, you could do that as a list of structs that define what to do, and have a big case statement to do each 10:48:39 Or start to use function pointers, and still need slots in the structs to specify data needed by the function 10:49:12 But the difference between "doing it now" with code and wrapping up the code to do it later is still lots of work (at least, declaring an extra function outside of the one you're writing, handling passing all the data you need into it, etc) 10:49:17 But in Scheme, you can write: 10:49:22 (do-foo 1 2 3) 10:49:24 Or you can write: 10:49:29 (append-to-list-of-things-to-do! 10:49:35 (lambda () (do-foo 1 2 3))) 10:49:55 ...and be done with it. Just wrapping (do-foo 1 2 3) in a lambda makes a closure that can be called to do it later. 10:50:41 getting a feel of it! 10:53:01 is it stored in the stack? 10:53:26 nataraj: Try not to think of implementation methods while you're learning a new language 10:53:31 Just treat it as magic for now 10:54:02 ok :) 10:54:39 -!- jao [~jao@83.50.65.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:56:27 sepult` [~user@xdsl-78-35-204-39.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 10:58:27 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-103-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:58:45 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 11:00:16 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:36 -!- SharkBra1n [~gerard@122-57-62-216.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:16:45 -!- ribbs [~ribbs@p024062.doubleroute.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:19:55 -!- nataraj [~nataraj@122.165.223.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:24:11 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-204-39.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:25 fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has joined #scheme 11:27:45 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:52 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:28:52 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Client Quit] 11:28:56 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 11:29:10 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:31:36 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:05 alvatar [~alvatar@226.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:36:37 jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:49:37 sepult [~user@xdsl-78-35-204-39.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:49:57 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:25 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 11:52:49 D2 is already 2.042 11:52:52 sorry 11:52:58 wrong channel 12:01:04 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 12:15:49 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 12:24:40 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:14 luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 12:43:36 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 13:10:36 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:10:38 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:11:09 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:36 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 13:21:41 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:22:22 xwl [~user@123.115.121.9] has joined #scheme 13:32:43 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.154] has joined #scheme 13:39:48 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-28-130.w86-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:11 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:51 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:50:53 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:56:16 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3664, sources date: 20090924, built on: 2009-12-03 14:48:48 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:01:43 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 14:05:20 fabe [~fabe@p54A7E3ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:06:37 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:08:16 -!- OneSadCookie is now known as OSC|away 14:14:26 -!- foof [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:25:43 -!- DerGuteMoritz is now known as lisppaste 14:26:36 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:04 -!- lisppaste is now known as DerGuteMoritz 14:38:46 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 14:43:13 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:11 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 14:45:49 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.154] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:09 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@226.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:02:41 A bot drought! 15:07:23 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.154] has joined #scheme 15:08:18 pigdude [~pigdude@static-96-231-201-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:09:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:09:21 MIT scheme is not available for my OS. Can one work through SICP with other implementations? 15:09:57 I have mzscheme available and a few other implementations 15:12:03 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: foobar] 15:12:05 -!- xwl [~user@123.115.121.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:14:14 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:23 nevermind installed from scratch 15:14:24 -!- pigdude [~pigdude@static-96-231-201-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #scheme 15:16:37 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:23:09 wtf :) 15:26:44 foof [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 15:27:18 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:29:02 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:34 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:39:00 annodomini [~lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:39:00 -!- annodomini [~lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:39:00 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 15:41:01 mdmkolbe [~adamsmd@2001:18e8:2:244:212:3fff:fe43:5290] has joined #scheme 15:47:37 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:47:55 What is a nice R6RS way to produce a void-like-object? I have been using (values) but that breaks when I'm in a single value return context. (These contexts arise even though the value isn't really used due to warts in the program design that I don't have time to fix right now.) This void like object should be eq? to itself but generally useless for any other computation. 15:48:43 I've thought about '() and #f, but those have special meaning and defensive programming tells me I should avoid them. 15:48:48 (list 'void)? 15:48:56 (i.e. use the runtime typechecks to my advantage) 15:50:18 what is the meaning of your void value? 15:51:46 C-Keen: they mean "yes here is a value to keep the calling context happy (i.e. as the return value of a function that "returns no values"), but don't do anything with it (other than eq?)" 15:52:31 -!- foof [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:37 how do you use it? 15:54:24 (define (f x) blah blah ... (values)) (for-each f blah) 15:54:46 that is just one example, but it gives the flavor 15:55:23 for-each does not care about your return values anyway 15:55:35 mdmkolbe: In R6RS code, I'd suggest (if #f #f) . 15:56:16 You're right for-each is smart enough to not croak, but other constructs that I'm building myself aren't and it is too much work to fix those constructs right now. 15:57:07 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.201] has quit [Quit: off] 15:57:10 *Daemmerung* gazes into the Void 15:57:19 chandler: that should work. (I'll probably (define (void) (if #f #f))) 15:57:39 Why not just (define void) ? 15:58:01 chandler: is that legel R6RS? 15:58:07 *mdmkolbe* checks R6RS 15:58:25 Yes, it's legal. 15:58:53 foof [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 15:59:21 chandler:=-0. I guess it is. I didn't expect that. I guess I'll have to use that. 15:59:56 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:59:56 But I don't want to be negative zero. 16:00:06 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 16:00:45 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:03 None can stand against the assignment operator. 16:01:41 Unless you are in the republic of haskell :) There you will originally stay the same :) 16:03:13 incubot: What is your prime imperative? 16:03:17 Well, criticizing something from a position of ignorance is not going to encourage people to read your comments forgivingly. 16:05:50 alvatar [~alvatar@226.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:06:21 ;) 16:11:07 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:47 -!- fabe [~fabe@p54A7E3ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:43 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #scheme 16:25:37 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:25:47 -!- qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:01 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:27:49 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-10.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:30:00 -!- luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:36 How's everyone today? 16:41:07 *foof* is packing 16:42:17 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:43:43 scheibo [~scheibo@129-97-249-183.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 16:44:31 *elly* got enough sleep 16:47:17 Hm, it seems like when one compiles PLT if one is missing the GL/glu.h file you get an error, but the installation process keeps going until producing an error at the very end (quite some time later), leaving a half-done installation. Would that be something to file as a bug? 16:49:45 foof: Packing? 16:50:33 Moving to Tokyo. 16:50:45 Oh... 16:50:50 Hah, what do you know? 16:51:18 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 16:52:04 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 16:57:20 fradgers- [~fradgers-@5ad4c06e.bb.sky.com] has joined #scheme 16:58:17 -!- OSC|away is now known as OneSadCookie 16:58:36 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:58:40 metasyntax`: (a) that's intentional, (b) missing gl doesn't make it "half-done", it's more like "95%-done". 17:01:38 virl [~virl__@chello062178085149.1.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 17:03:52 Ah, OK. It was just surprising to me to get almost all the way to the end ("half-done" I mean colloquially) and to get an error, but in reading the scrollback finding evidence of a problem much earlier. I wonder why that's intentional? (Not trying to lay blame, just curious.) 17:04:54 Just curious-- on which platform are you building, lacking glu.h? 17:05:23 -!- adzuci [~ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:57 I thought that most Unixy build processes used an excruciating ./configure batch file to detect missing files of that nature. Of course I only "know" that through hearsay. 17:06:48 Daemmerung: Ubuntu 9.10; I installed libglitz-glx1-dev (which pulled some dependencies) to make ./configure happy - which is why I was somewhat taken aback when "make install" gave an error. 17:07:41 ./configure checks for GL/glx.h but not GL/glu.h 17:11:25 metasyntax`: It's intentional since GL support is optional. You do get everything else. 17:13:16 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:15:47 -!- samth [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:16:08 samth [~samth@17.244.1.89] has joined #scheme 17:16:15 samth_ [~samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 17:17:16 eli: Right, it's just that my usual experience with software is that optional features don't cause "make install" errors. :-) Maybe the configure script could be made to check for GL/glu.h as well, looking through the mailing list archives this seems to be a question that other people have experienced before. But if not then at least it's good to know what it means, so thanks for the clarification on the matter. 17:17:54 metasyntax`: Well, it's a question how to deal with it... 17:17:56 *Daemmerung* laughs at the result of googling +ubuntu +glu.h 17:18:23 The configure script does detect that there's no GL support, so mred (the plt gui thing) is built without it. 17:18:50 But when setup-plt is compiling the sgl library (the actual scheme GL interface), then it throws an error. 17:19:20 That could be turned into a warning or something -- but this wouldn't be great if you *wanted* to have GL. 17:22:38 I guess some of the blame might be put on Ubuntu here, as with the libraries I have mred seems to be linked against OpenGL just fine (MRLIBS="... -lGL ...") but setup-plt still fails because GL/glu.h is not present - since the libraries are split into 1000 different packages. 17:24:29 Ugh... Yes, ubuntu does that. You just need some -dev package. 17:27:00 Yeah, I have just enough of the files to pass ./configure but not enough to "make install" - that part of the Debian philosophy certainly has its downsides. 17:35:33 ros3 [~ros3@208.66.28.143] has joined #scheme 17:36:15 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:37:05 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@226.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:41 alvatar [~alvatar@226.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:43:40 -!- ros3 [~ros3@208.66.28.143] has quit [Quit: ros3] 17:51:22 For the lidless eye of the chat room logger, and posterity, the answer is to install libglu1-mesa-dev. Although I still think it would be cool if ./configure could check for GL/glu.h :-D 17:54:02 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@226.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:54:14 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 17:55:50 fabe [~fabe@p54A7E3ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:57:43 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 17:59:45 kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:59:52 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 18:00:18 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 18:00:33 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-14-208-10.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.8 -- Are we there yet?] 18:10:12 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:21:30 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 18:21:43 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:21:59 -!- Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:25 Sveklo [~sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 18:23:14 brianski [~ski@173-10-136-30-BusName-washingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:23:21 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 18:23:21 -!- brianski [~ski@173-10-136-30-BusName-washingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #scheme 18:23:59 luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 18:25:22 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:34:39 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 18:37:47 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 18:39:12 ros3_ [~ros3@208.66.28.143] has joined #scheme 18:45:36 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 18:53:14 incubot: Scientists have identified a previously unknown type of ancient human through analysis of DNA from a finger bone unearthed in a Siberian cave. 18:53:17 http://www.murlyki.ru/breed/siberian3.jpg 19:01:59 haha 19:02:12 gives a new meaning to "siberian husky" 19:03:31 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:03:50 -!- mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:05:06 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 19:08:12 incubot: The extinct "hominin" [humanlike creature] lived in Central Asia between 48,000 and 30,000 years ago. 19:08:16 that seem to have gone extinct since then. 19:20:45 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 19:21:33 foof` [~user@FL1-122-131-151-108.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 19:23:02 -!- foof [~user@FLH1Aib193.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:31:14 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:12 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:48:14 -!- kar8nga [~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:34 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:49:34 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-151-204-250-193.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:35 sstrickl [~sstrickl@pool-151-204-250-193.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:54:17 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06:09 jcowan [~jcowan@nat/google/x-pglqzccewyszlhib] has joined #scheme 20:06:37 *jcowan* unvanishes 20:07:10 -!- saccade [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:13:01 -!- elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:18:47 webwanderer [~75ce3536@gateway/web/freenode/x-wcgszywtuvzqwrrw] has joined #scheme 20:19:52 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 20:26:51 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:04 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 20:28:08 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [] 20:28:25 -!- webwanderer [~75ce3536@gateway/web/freenode/x-wcgszywtuvzqwrrw] has left #scheme 20:29:02 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:29:57 arcfide [arcfide@140-182-147-20.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 20:30:05 Terminology query! 20:30:33 I have a procedure that take what is, in essence a relative reference, and turns it into an absolute reference. This could, for example, be a relative URI to an absolute URI, or a path, just the same. 20:30:40 Is there some correct verb term for doing this? 20:30:47 I'm trying to figure out what to call this procedure. 20:32:05 canonicalize is something for that, i dunno if its absolute->relative or relative->absolute though 20:32:14 its in the java world.. let me see 20:32:21 `contextualize' springs to mind. 20:32:34 How does something relative become absolute? A context must be supplied. 20:32:40 I was thinking of the term GROUND. 20:32:43 In Tcl it's called "normalize." 20:32:59 How about 'mangle'? 20:33:15 arcfide: That sounds a bit like you're sending the URI to its room, but is otherwise acceptable. 20:33:22 Haha. 20:33:27 find the most obscure mathematical realm, like category theory, and find an apt word from there 20:34:16 Canonicalize and normalize both seem to imply a potential mutation or alteration of the origina input, which I do not wish to imply. 20:34:59 chandler: Contextualize seems to imply that the procedure will provide some context, when in reality, it's more like an environment or context lookup. 20:35:08 arcfide: The RFC refers to that process as "resolution" IIRC 20:35:14 jonrafkind: if I knew obscure mathematics, then I probably would be fine. 20:35:17 sjamaan: Hey.... 20:35:20 PLT calls it cleansing when it comes to the filesystem. 20:35:23 sjamaan: That's not half bad. 20:35:26 Resolve a relative reference against an absolute one 20:35:46 yes, in my own file system libraries I call absolute->relative 'cleanse' 20:35:51 Hrm... 20:35:56 relative->absolute I call 'find' 20:35:58 I think of URI cleansing whenI think of that. 20:36:13 Which would do things like escaping and other things. 20:36:22 hm.. 20:36:30 arcfide: Have a look at http://chicken.wiki.br/eggref/4/uri-generic for an example of a pretty complete and pedantically standards-compliant lib 20:36:30 i would just call that 'uri=escape' 20:36:58 Root might also be a decent term. 20:37:37 yea thats reasonable 20:38:09 *arcfide* snickers. 20:38:16 How about "ground-relative" ? :-P 20:38:24 arcfide: In my code, it's actually called MERGE-URLS, by analogy with CL's MERGE-PATHNAMES. 20:38:54 merge is a nice name too 20:39:12 chandler: you could merge two relative URIs into another relative URI, though, right? 20:39:20 Yes. 20:39:53 (plant root relative), hahah, that's full of visual imagery. 20:39:58 There's no specific term for the operation of concretization. (Hey, there's another word.) 20:40:33 why use an existing word when a new one will do just as well? absolutise! 20:40:42 chandler: Eh yes, there is. Resolution 20:40:50 sjamaan: In my code, that is. 20:40:58 or absolutify ... better yet: absolutificate 20:40:59 Concretize is a word too. 20:40:59 oh, ok 20:41:13 Sorry about that :) 20:41:56 "Absolve", as in to absolve your URIs of the sin of being relative. 20:42:23 Absolve they uris of their relativistic beings, give them absolute truth! 20:42:37 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5BA21.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:42:39 s/they/thy/ 20:43:05 elderK [~elderK@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 20:47:56 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-50-80.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:49:16 -!- luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 20:55:16 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:33 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 21:03:54 arcfide: RFC 3986 calls this process "resolution". 21:04:50 schmir [~schmir@p54A937B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:04:51 toekutr 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