00:03:27 emacs/paredit/quack/geiser 00:03:31 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:03:52 ... he says half an hour later 00:04:01 emacs/paredit/cluck 00:04:05 Seems to work now! :) 00:05:26 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-118-219.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:09:58 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:13:30 -!- Zuu [~Zuuo@unaffiliated/zuu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:13:34 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 00:20:04 -!- wingo [~wingo@83.32.71.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:21:00 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:13 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 00:25:27 -!- ben_m is now known as sierjins 00:26:55 -!- sierjins is now known as ben_m 02:16:04 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 02:16:04 02:16:04 -!- names: ccl-logbot oconnore_ jengle mbohun ASau aFlag adu RageOfThou Colloguy nickgibbon sepult i1ey MichaelRaskin hadronzoo ben_m bzzbzz parolang rmrfchik Sergio` dlouhy jmcphers hosh_office antoszka bgs100 snorble NNshag bipt lisppaste phao SharkBrain luz stepnem Adamant PygoscelisPapua rstandy incubot Checkie Modius_ alexsuraci dfeuer Daemmerung TR2N mjonsson kniu mbishop GammaRays copumpkin nothingHappens Quadrescence rudybot Obfuscate Poeir phnglui leppie 02:16:04 -!- names: bunz metasyntax` REPLeffect samth_away lusory Pepe_ sladegen metasyntax Axioplase errordeveloper mreggen joast rapacity cmatei gnomon askhader DerGuteMoritz elf fractalis rrm3 C-Keen zbigniew fnord123 alaricsp derrida dmoerner nowhere_man eno ASau`` cky emma winxordie Baughn eldragon araujo offby1 Hydr4 adzuci Adrinael_ mrd` ski ecraven sloyd Khisanth ineiros tltstc Arelius Leonidas yosafbridge z0d mornfall tizoc chandler fda314925 rotty sjamaan 02:16:04 -!- names: Armageddon00 roderic elly gabot timchen1` specbot minion ironChicken eli tabe` duncanm jay-mccarthy kencausey saccade clog felipe mhoye slxix qebab jyujin klutometis XTL ray nicktastic 02:20:55 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-99-42-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:22 -!- ben_m [~ben@chello084113058207.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: foo] 02:25:27 hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-99-42-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:27 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-118-219.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 02:32:40 Does (define var 1) then (define var 2) change the location to which the variable var is bound? 02:38:44 (or is location fixed but content that is stored there changed?) 02:41:54 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:43:07 -!- aFlag [~root@189.107.184.230] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:45:57 okay, the 2nd define apparently just stores the value '2' at var's address. 02:47:56 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.131.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:48:47 ribbs [~ribbs@p024062.doubleroute.jp] has joined #scheme 02:55:52 foof [~user@FL1-122-131-198-106.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 02:58:55 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Nichts mehr.] 03:05:22 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:08:36 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:09:05 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:23 -!- jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-roexyjtlqslenjqf] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:15:48 Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:19:39 rstandy` [~rastandy@net-93-144-67-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 03:19:40 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 03:19:48 Anyone know why this is #t? (define a '#(1 2 3)) (define b 2) (set! b a) (eqv? a b) 03:20:29 As I understand it, set! should only edit the value stored at a var, and not the address to which that var is bound 03:21:16 -!- Hydr4 [~Lernaean@24-107-60-232.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 03:22:22 I submit for your consideration the following demonstration of EQV?: (define a #t) (define b #t) (eqv? a b) 03:22:25 does that make things clearer? 03:23:50 I think your example should eval to #t, but eqv? is defined differently for vectors (in terms of physical location) 03:25:12 I believe that in your example both a and b will contain the address of a vector... 03:25:33 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:25:33 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-67-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:26:04 (define a ) stores the address of into a? But (define a ) stores the value of into a? 03:27:08 in general, (define var ) stores the value of at the location of var, but (define var ) stores the location of at the location of var? 03:27:20 I actually do not know 03:27:25 I am attempting to construct a test case 03:27:40 in your example, the way you'd tell would be if a were a mutable vector, and then a VECTOR-SET on b also changed a 03:28:42 yeah, as I thought 03:28:47 > (define a (make-vector 3 0)) 03:28:47 > (define b 2) 03:28:47 > (set! b a) 03:28:47 > (vector-set! b 1 1) 03:28:47 > a 03:28:49 #(0 1 0) 03:28:54 I suspect that R5RS doesn't mention "addresses" 03:29:00 certainly not :P 03:29:04 let's see if rudybot is having a good day 03:29:09 it does mention "location in the store" 03:29:10 rudybot: eval #(1 2 3) 03:29:12 nope 03:29:17 *offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 03:29:19 *sigh* 03:29:31 Colloguy: ah. That would be an address :) 03:29:54 :) 03:34:48 What's all this talk about values and addresses? 03:35:00 *Daemmerung* channels Emily Litella briefly 03:36:05 Daemmerung: Emily? Uh, that's "Bayous" and "dresses". 03:36:17 kids today don't know from Emily Litella ... 03:36:34 *offby1* proactively hurls his dentures at mbishop 03:40:23 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 03:47:10 das64 [~das@adsl-67-124-39-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:01 Colloguy: You may consider every variable definition as storing an object's address. The model does not differentiate between atoms and non-atoms. 03:52:19 *Colloguy* thinks it over 03:54:00 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:54:42 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:03:17 -!- Colloguy [~colloguy@64.134.223.160] has left #scheme 04:03:35 I am looking at some scheme code and see function definitions such as (define (function _) ...). What is the underscore used for here? 04:05:42 it usually indicates "I don't care what this is" 04:05:50 punzik [~punzik@wn2nat48.beelinegprs.ru] has joined #scheme 04:06:21 thanks elly. That sounds right, since it's not used in the body in the examples I'm looking at. 04:09:29 we use same convention in Python 04:09:50 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:11:52 and in ML and Haskell 04:12:55 -!- punzik [~punzik@wn2nat48.beelinegprs.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:18:40 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:19:45 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 04:20:10 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:21:08 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:21:38 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:21:53 *offby1* belatedly notes the omitted "the" 04:22:06 I'm trying out a Russian accent, apparently. 04:22:20 offby1: oh, I thought that was to emphasize python's totalitarianism by analogy with russia :P 04:22:23 "Index, I copy from old Vladivostok telephone directory." 04:23:41 Does anyone know if there is a documentation function in mit-scheme similar to the function with the same name in Common Lisp? 04:26:20 *offby1* watches the tumbleweeds skitter down Main St 04:31:13 "In one word, he told me secret of success in open source software: Plagiarize!" 04:34:41 One man deserves the credit! One man deserves the blame! 04:34:48 And ... 04:34:49 uh ... 04:34:59 *offby1* vainly tries to Russify the name "Richard Matthew Stallman" 04:36:05 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 04:36:27 *Daemmerung* is playing part of the hypotenuse 04:38:02 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:21 *offby1* is poisoning pigeons in the park 04:38:49 *elly* is looking through cgsociety: http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g07/191407/191407_1266926546_large.jpg 04:40:15 ooh, a picture 04:40:26 *offby1* wonders why rudybot didn't tinyurl-ify that URL :-| 04:41:57 it was in an action? :nfi: 04:44:37 elly: that's actually a good guess. 04:44:46 I WONDER IF THE BOT WILL TINYURL-IFY http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g07/191407/191407_1266926546_large.jpg 04:44:47 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ygn8lgw 04:44:52 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:56 elly: I think you win the prize 04:45:24 yay! 04:45:26 what is the prize? 04:45:46 I dunno. 04:45:56 Anyway, he only looks in PRIVMSGs, as you suspected. 04:46:11 *offby1* awards elly a brooch made of a Cracker Jack toy and a paper clip 04:46:12 there 04:49:23 yay, a brooch! 04:49:25 *elly* wears it 04:49:31 do I get a bonus to my armor class? 04:50:42 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 04:52:59 well, probably +2 charisma 04:57:00 yay! 04:57:06 *elly* feels her charisma modifier go positive! 05:02:23 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 05:02:53 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-173-96.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:04:36 ton [~ton@173-16-130-10.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 05:04:38 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-254.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:05:30 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 05:05:40 *elly* oscillates 05:05:49 I should go to sleep 05:06:05 then go 05:06:08 plz 05:06:12 jk 05:06:35 hey now, don't be mean :P 05:08:25 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:09:06 srr ._. 05:09:15 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 05:13:49 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-99-42-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:15:10 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:43 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 05:16:00 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:33 Colloguy [~colloguy@64.134.22.247] has joined #scheme 05:17:22 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 05:39:42 sphex [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 06:02:25 -!- ton [~ton@173-16-130-10.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:58 -!- foof [~user@FL1-122-131-198-106.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:23:47 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:26:35 -!- Colloguy [~colloguy@64.134.22.247] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:27:50 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:29:30 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:30:15 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:43:43 -!- elly [~elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [Quit: switching irssi over] 06:45:15 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 06:46:20 elly [~elly@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 06:46:25 victory! 06:46:51 -!- elly [~elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [Client Quit] 06:48:33 elly [~elly@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 06:59:31 flonum [~ben@24-138-98-109.zing-net.ca] has joined #scheme 07:00:13 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:06:11 Kusanagi [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 07:07:00 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:10:45 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has left #scheme 07:10:59 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 07:11:12 -!- flonum [~ben@24-138-98-109.zing-net.ca] has left #scheme 07:13:56 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:32 -!- nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has left #scheme 07:18:22 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:22:54 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 07:23:51 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:06 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 07:25:34 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:06 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 07:34:29 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:48 hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 07:45:46 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:46:24 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:40 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:50:52 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 07:55:03 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:56:47 -!- hosh_office [~hosh@c-24-126-188-198.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:10 -!- das64 [~das@adsl-67-124-39-87.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:58:47 foof [~user@isa7-dhcp-116-214.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 08:04:26 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 08:11:27 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:14:22 Colloguy [~colloguy@adsl-99-19-51-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:16:08 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 08:24:56 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 08:32:58 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:34:16 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 08:34:44 uno problemo. My (gcd) is broken :( 08:36:06 (gcd 2 3) should yield a 6. 08:36:09 right? 08:36:15 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:30 mine results in 1 08:36:37 which is the suck :! 08:36:44 morphir, you're confusing gcd and lcm 08:37:44 ahh! 08:37:46 :) 08:37:48 thank you 08:38:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has joined #scheme 08:48:21 dmoerner: thanks man - I'm glad I have this channel *phew* 08:48:36 morphir, if only all problems were that simple :) 08:49:33 well, I just do what Einstein said... 08:49:46 "when I don't understand, I ask" 09:06:54 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 09:08:30 -!- Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:09:48 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 09:10:02 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:10:17 amca [~amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 09:15:24 -!- Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:17:34 -!- amca [~amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:19:55 amca_ [~amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 09:22:30 a-s [~user@2001:15c0:66a3:2:214:85ff:feea:c35a] has joined #scheme 09:23:40 -!- amca_ is now known as amca 09:25:13 Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:25:19 -!- Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:27 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:28:09 -!- a-s [~user@2001:15c0:66a3:2:214:85ff:feea:c35a] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:27 SharkBra1n [~gerard@222-152-107-233.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 09:39:57 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:42:47 wingo [~wingo@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:44:42 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-53.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 09:53:03 hkBst_ [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:55:11 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:58:13 -!- hkBst_ [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:19 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:26 hkBst_ [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 10:04:02 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 10:05:03 -!- hkBst_ [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:52 hkBst_ [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 10:09:36 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:53 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:13:02 sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 10:26:34 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 10:27:17 -!- wingo [~wingo@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:44:57 -!- foof [~user@isa7-dhcp-116-214.naist.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:45:27 -!- PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f055100208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:47:01 PygoscelisPapua [~pygospa@f055208130.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 10:49:04 pjb [~t@95.124.93.115] has joined #scheme 11:10:35 schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 11:20:06 Zuu [~Zuuo@h207.natout.aau.dk] has joined #scheme 11:24:42 incubot: when i don't understand i go berserk. 11:24:46 so you plan going berserk now and kill everybody and the neighbour, or just go on looking? :P 11:25:25 *sladegen* looks for his plane keys. 11:32:41 -!- hkBst_ [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:32:47 hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has joined #scheme 11:37:18 Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:42:38 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:42:56 haptiK [~alsodongs@157.140.112.178] has joined #scheme 11:52:20 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 11:53:10 xwl [~user@124-168-127-213.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 11:57:14 alvatar [~alvatar@196.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:58:30 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:53 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 11:58:57 pjb` [~t@95.124.11.78] has joined #scheme 11:59:11 pjb`` [~t@95.124.11.78] has joined #scheme 12:00:15 -!- pjb [~t@95.124.93.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:01:07 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 12:02:25 -!- pjb`` [~t@95.124.11.78] has quit [Client Quit] 12:16:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:22:48 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:25:44 Dark-Star [Darkstar@p57B553B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:34:41 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 12:37:24 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 12:38:37 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@net-93-144-67-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:42 rstandy`` [~rastandy@net-93-144-67-152.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 12:40:11 -!- Dark-Star [Darkstar@p57B553B7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:43:04 -!- amca [~amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.cqzr1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: booork] 12:45:32 Dark-Star [Darkstar@p57B56B5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:46:12 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 12:51:24 hi! 12:51:51 a "map" builds a new list transforming one with a function 12:52:10 is there a way to use "map" to remove things from a list if they satisfy a predicate? 12:53:11 alvatar: there's SRFI-1 remove: http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html#remove 12:53:14 making the function return a '() or (void) doesn't work, of course 12:53:27 ah, that's a SRFI thing :) 12:53:34 thanks mario-goulart, I'll take a look now 12:53:43 You're welcome. 12:53:50 this might be my first SRFI use (excited!) ;) 12:54:06 :-) 12:58:05 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 12:59:46 -!- hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:04:23 cool, works great 13:04:39 there's also (filter pred list) but I think this has only been introduced in R6RS 13:05:41 yes, I took a look at how remove is implemented, and it uses a filter function 13:05:50 Dark-Star: filter is SRFI-1 too. 13:06:29 -!- xwl [~user@124-168-127-213.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:07:11 hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has joined #scheme 13:07:31 xwl [~user@124-168-127-213.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 13:07:38 `filter' returns a list with all the elements which satisfy the given predicate. `remove' returns a list WITHOUT the elements which satisfy the given predicate. 13:10:04 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:44 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:12:09 -!- hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:58 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:27 -!- dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:16:05 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:19:27 -!- nothingHappens [~nothingha@173-31-122-80.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:20:52 attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-182-92.vodafone.hu] has joined #scheme 13:22:16 hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has joined #scheme 13:26:16 -!- hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:03 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:30:16 -!- DerGuteMoritz [~syn@85.88.17.198] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:30:20 DerGuteMoritz [~syn@85.88.17.198] has joined #scheme 13:30:31 hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has joined #scheme 13:30:41 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:23 luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 13:47:05 What would be your opinions about representing graphs in scheme? There several data structures that have straightforward representations in lists, but coming from the C family languages I'm used to do graphs with pointers. 13:48:25 I found this for lisp, anyway: http://rlai.cs.ualberta.ca/RLAI/graph.lisp 13:48:34 -!- SharkBra1n [~gerard@222-152-107-233.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:51:33 -!- hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:32 hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has joined #scheme 13:55:31 Why can't you "do graphs with pointers" in scheme? 13:58:14 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 14:01:19 -!- Zuu [~Zuuo@h207.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:02:26 -!- xwl [~user@124-168-127-213.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:03:44 Jafet: ok, how exactly would be a good way? 14:03:57 What do you want to do? 14:04:09 bweaver [~user@c-68-60-0-190.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:04:29 for example, a tree with references to other parts of the tree 14:06:09 That sounds self-descriptive. 14:08:13 yeah, but how should the pointers be done in scheme. If that's done through pairs, the car is the pointer and the cdr the next? 14:08:46 Describe recursively a "tree with references to other parts of the tree" 14:08:48 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 14:09:40 wow, I'm broken now. I'll have to meditate that :) 14:10:21 ... 14:11:06 rudybot: eval (let* ((x (cons 'dummy 4)) (y (cons x 'dummy))) (set-car! x y) (set-cdr! y x) y) 14:11:07 ski: ; Value: #0={#1={#0# . 4} . #1#} 14:12:54 thanks :) 14:22:32 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:30:32 Zuu [~Zuuo@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 14:32:37 -!- hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:20 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:40:01 -!- ribbs [~ribbs@p024062.doubleroute.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:55:06 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 14:56:04 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:31 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:59:02 wingo [~wingo@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:59:33 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:05:27 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@196.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:06:10 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:11:41 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 15:11:49 hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has joined #scheme 15:11:58 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:12:11 -!- mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:18:29 phao [~phao@189.107.201.217] has joined #scheme 15:18:38 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:24:45 copumpkin [~copumpkin@dhcp-212-241.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 15:25:23 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 15:26:28 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 15:28:57 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-168.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 15:33:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@apn-89-223-182-92.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:34:14 -!- hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:40 hkBst___ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has joined #scheme 15:35:05 -!- schmir [~schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:10 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:40:02 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:42:51 offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 15:42:55 foof [~user@FL1-122-131-198-106.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 15:43:22 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:43:22 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 15:44:20 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:51:06 marijn [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has joined #scheme 15:52:52 jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-aiuiarnmyvgbyycs] has joined #scheme 15:53:50 -!- hkBst___ [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:47 -!- marijn [~hkBst@41.184.82.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:32 sstrickl [~sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:07:21 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@dhcp-212-241.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 16:14:53 alvatar [~alvatar@196.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:36:20 -!- qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:39 copumpkin [~copumpkin@dhcp-212-241.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 16:43:24 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:01 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 16:51:44 -!- jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-aiuiarnmyvgbyycs] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:53:15 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 16:53:26 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@196.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:55:24 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:56:48 davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has joined #scheme 17:00:09 alvatar [~alvatar@114.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:06:02 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:42 -!- foof [~user@FL1-122-131-198-106.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:48 foof [~user@FL1-122-131-198-106.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 17:12:07 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:15:08 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:21:34 -!- bweaver [~user@c-68-60-0-190.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:39:32 where is riastradh? I must thank him for paredit-mode 17:41:34 *copumpkin* will hunt him down for you 17:41:40 actually, scratch that 17:42:50 he'll be back eventually 17:44:40 mije [~antoine@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 17:44:59 live long and prosper, young brilliant people 17:47:40 how does one convince paredit-mode to add a containing S-expression to an S-expression? 17:48:20 elly: what do you mean? 17:48:38 I have an S-expression (and (foo) (bar)); I'd like it to be (not (and (foo) (bar))) 17:48:46 how do I convince paredit-mode of this? 17:49:46 What I do is to move before (and and type C-1 ( 17:50:09 If you want to swallow two following sexps, C-2 (, etc. 17:50:10 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:50:11 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:12 M-( 17:50:51 M-( and C-) are great 17:51:15 You still need C-1 or C-u 17:51:45 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 17:52:59 -!- jay-mccarthy [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has quit [Quit: jay-mccarthy] 17:54:37 i don't think so 17:54:53 at least not the paredit that i run 17:54:56 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@dhcp-212-241.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 17:55:05 I use paredit-version 21. 17:55:23 But I may have interfering key bindings... 17:56:09 jay-mccarthy [~jay@lallab.cs.byu.edu] has joined #scheme 18:02:10 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-3-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:06:30 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:10:12 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:15:21 rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.227.78] has joined #scheme 18:15:49 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #scheme 18:19:46 -!- Checkie [~checkie@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:21:07 -!- Kusanagi [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 18:22:00 Kusanagi [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 18:23:28 -!- i1ey [~iley@host-81.200.2.121.su29.ru] has quit [Quit: ...:: Ðóñèôèöèðîâàííûé mIRC 6.35 îò CrEmAtOrY ::... --••» http://scriptpro.org.ru «••---] 18:29:46 masm [~masm@bl7-207-69.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 18:36:31 Completely OT: "This, folks, is the bracingly direct route to preparing dioxygen difluoride, often referred to in the literature by its evocative formula of FOOF." http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride.php 18:36:33 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yjdhf7d 18:39:24 -!- NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-57-82-249-9-129.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48:00 \o/ 18:48:12 kitteh! 18:48:25 *foof* is only stable at low temperatures 18:48:29 heh! 18:53:31 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:54:00 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:02:11 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-53-82-65-36-161.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:53 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.227.78] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 19:15:33 saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-68-179.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 19:16:19 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 19:17:13 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.89] has joined #scheme 19:19:24 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:55 foof` [~user@FL1-118-110-13-211.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 19:20:51 jimrees_ [~jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 19:21:09 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:21:35 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:06 -!- foof [~user@FL1-122-131-198-106.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:29:12 the result of eval is an address, not a value, right? 19:30:18 which is then dereferenced if it appears where you would expect a value 19:32:47 seems like the only way to explain why this returns #t: 19:32:52 (let ((p '(a . b))) (eqv? p (begin (set-car! p 'c) p))) 19:33:54 p is a pair 19:34:02 All you're doing is modify the contents of that pair 19:34:07 But it's the same pair 19:42:52 Review the first paragraph of r5rs 3.4 ("Storage model") 19:44:55 if a variable can be imagined to store a value, in the sense that eval returns an address, do the eval of arbitrary expressions also return an address? 19:45:12 errr replace 1st instance of "value" with "address" 19:45:48 including the eval of "atoms" 19:48:05 maybe it doesn't matter 19:56:42 Everything is just values. Some values explicitly denote locations in the store. Everything else is an implementation detail. Your "atom" may or may not be implemented as an immediate value. That decision lies outside the language specification. 19:57:13 Daemmerung: Actually, atoms must compare with eq? whereas some other values don't have to, AFAIK 19:57:37 bignums for example are allowed to not be eq? to eachother, even if their value is the same 19:58:47 "behavior is implementation-dependent," per the spec 19:59:34 "Eq? and eqv? are guaranteed to have the same behavior on symbols, booleans, the empty list, pairs, procedures, and non-empty strings and vectors. 19:59:42 Eq?'s behavior on numbers and characters is implementation-dependent, but it will always return either true or false, and will return true only when eqv? would also return true." 19:59:59 The semantics specify eqv?, but not eq?. 20:00:39 It does say that eq? needs to return the same value for symbols 20:00:59 .. and the empty list 20:08:00 -!- luz [~davids@139.82.89.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:47 Erm, I'm using gambit. How should I transform an int to a double? Just *1.0?? I don't find any method for such purpose 20:14:04 exact->inexact ? 20:14:30 paredit-mode <3 20:15:43 sloyd: yeah, that seems the scheme way to say it ;) 20:15:46 thanks 20:18:49 jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-oghenbqryrtixgku] has joined #scheme 20:23:22 o/ 20:23:25 byeee 20:23:29 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@114.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:25:23 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:26 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:28:22 sjamaan: (The point was about immediate values, not about the presence or absence of atoms. Colloguy seems to be trying to make some lvalue vs rvalue differentiation in Scheme.) 20:29:13 Oh, you're really talking about differences that aren't discernable on the Scheme level 20:29:30 Right. Page back about a day. 20:29:58 heh 20:30:07 This reminds me of a question I'd like to find the answer to: 20:30:13 for real, it's groundhog day up in here 20:30:32 42 20:30:36 Is there any actual use for `eq?'s ability to distinguish some `eqv?' numbers and characters? 20:30:59 Darn that "actual" there. 20:31:27 :P 20:31:44 As far as I'm concerned, if `eq?' was the same thing as `eqv?' (ditto EQ and EQL in Common Lisp), I wouldn't notice. 20:31:44 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 20:31:50 chandler: Efficiency is the only thing I can think of 20:31:56 Efficiency of *what*? 20:32:01 Of the comparison 20:32:07 For what purpose? 20:32:24 If you *know* it's either the exact same object or another different one, you can just use eq? and it'll be faster 20:32:53 For very big bignums in number-heavy code, I can see a point to using eq? instead of eqv? 20:33:40 Is the implementaiton allowed to copy bignums at any time? 20:33:49 "implementation", even. I can't type today. 20:34:04 I don't know 20:34:15 (I ask because Common Lisp implementations are, but I don't know what the R5RS says.) 20:34:30 keyboard fatigue from typing all those extra "v" characters. Eventually it'll kill ya 20:34:36 :) 20:35:46 r5rs doesn't say anything about bignums, really. It says WOO SCHEME IS TEH TOOL WITHOUT LIMITS and also says that some numbers won't eq? #t when they would = #t, but otherwise... silent. 20:35:59 ``Eq?'s behavior on numbers and characters is implementation-dependent, but it will always return either true or false, and will return true only when eqv? would also return true.'' 20:36:40 Oh, and it's explicitly stated that (let ((n (+ 2 3))) (eq? n n)) is unspecified. 20:36:53 hey, that's odd indeed 20:37:04 Well, then I really have no idea :) 20:37:10 So using `eq?' on numbers is never a good idea. 20:37:38 It's too bad there's no rationale for all those nitty gritty details 20:37:43 This is equivalent to the behavior specified in Common Lisp, for what it's worth. 20:37:58 I'd be inclined to guess at hysterical porpoises. 20:38:00 Why (let ((n (+ 2 3))) (eq? n n)) should be unspecified? 20:38:17 Because 5 might be a bignum 20:38:27 Yeah, but it'd be _the same_ bignum 20:38:43 It's comparing `n'. 20:38:45 Because the implementation is allowed to copy numbers at any time. 20:38:55 At least, that's the Common Lisp justification. 20:39:01 funky 20:39:17 Can n be a copy of n in that case? 20:39:17 "An implementation is permitted to make ``copies'' of characters and numbers at any time." 20:39:24 At least Common Lisp has justifications. I don't feel like mining rrrs-authors this afternoon. 20:39:37 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:39:55 mario-goulart: Sure. The implementation might copy any number passed as an argument to a procedure. 20:40:22 ah, that actually makes some sense 20:40:37 Ah, ok. But why would the implementation do it? 20:40:41 I can't see why it would. 20:40:47 But it's permitted to! 20:40:58 mario-goulart: A naive implementation might do that 20:41:17 The proverbial sufficiently-stupid-compiler 20:41:22 :-) 20:41:23 OTOH, the spec hardly caters to those with the requirement for tail call optimization and first-class continuations... 20:41:46 So why would it do that here? 20:42:01 I think the specs should care less about stupid implementations in cases like that. 20:42:04 Neither of those requirements are particularly difficult to fulfill. Premature optimization is usually the primary cause of problems there. 20:42:19 Back to `eq?' again. 20:43:29 I still fail to see the purpose of distinguishing the identity of numbers or characters. 20:43:39 *sjamaan* too 20:46:22 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:16 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 20:49:08 -!- Colloguy [~colloguy@adsl-99-19-51-206.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:49:50 http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/ftpdir/scheme-mail/HTML/rrrs-1985/msg00195.html 20:49:52 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yjmn4jl 20:50:13 *chandler* fires up the WABAC! 20:50:29 *elly* is stuck on graph theory homework 20:50:39 There's a lot of traffic in 85 and 86 on this.... 20:52:03 Also, http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/ftpdir/scheme-mail/HTML/rrrs-1985/msg00200.html 20:52:05 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ylpqjls 20:52:28 Yes, I'm reading that now. 20:55:00 The money quote from Guy: "I argued for changing Common Lisp EQ to have the semantics EQL now has, but there was too much implementation tradition behind EQ and so EQ remained unchanged. I feel it is a mild pity that RRRS has made this same mistake." And here we are, 25 years later. 20:56:33 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:21 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:59:57 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-105-129.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:31 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:02:18 Did any of you guys here update the Gentoo lisp overlay with the bigloo ebuild? 21:02:19 * Cannot find $EPATCH_SOURCE! Value for $EPATCH_SOURCE is: 21:02:29 * ( bigloo-3.3a_p5-no_strip.patch ) 21:02:31 is missing. 21:02:43 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.34] has joined #scheme 21:04:05 drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:04:40 (of course, apparently one can copy it over from the previous release) 21:07:40 antoszka: maybe #gentoo-lisp can answer. 21:08:35 thx, didn't realise there was such a channel 21:09:06 no problem. 21:14:31 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 21:24:09 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 21:25:05 -!- wingo [~wingo@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:26:33 Checkie [~checkie@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 21:28:37 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-168.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:58 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-168.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 21:36:55 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 21:37:22 -!- Zuu [~Zuuo@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 21:42:06 Colloguy [~colloguy@64.134.17.233] has joined #scheme 21:42:43 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:45:31 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:47 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 21:47:47 xwl [~user@124-168-127-213.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 21:49:39 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:54:55 -!- xwl [~user@124-168-127-213.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:49 good night. 21:58:52 -!- mije [~antoine@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:58:58 -!- Colloguy [~colloguy@64.134.17.233] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:04:50 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:29 wingo [~wingo@83.44.191.228] has joined #scheme 22:13:26 -!- jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-oghenbqryrtixgku] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:15:30 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 22:19:49 rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.235.192] has joined #scheme 22:20:09 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@dhcp-18-111-68-179.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:29:55 mejja [~user@c-52b1e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:39:27 greyhame [~jao@236.Red-213-98-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:40:06 jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has joined #scheme 22:40:37 *jcowan* , WG2 Janitor, unvanishes 22:41:48 "Janitor"? 22:43:06 Doorkeeper in ancient days; nowadays, the guy with the mop. 22:44:13 but not the MOP 22:44:26 Nope. 22:44:41 A neat demo of the requirement for case-sensitivity 22:44:48 heh 22:45:09 *wingo* likes case sensitivity 22:45:19 I'm pushing a model in which all Schemes must support both, but the default is implementation-dependent. 22:45:40 that might be the practical thing. good luck. 22:46:46 *wingo* seems to have delimited continuations working in guile 22:46:55 *fnord123* thinks capital letters in code should be errors 22:46:57 So far nobody's seriously averse to it in the WG. 22:47:33 Basic model: casefolding is downcasing, |...| is case-insensitive, #!case-fold and #!no-case-fold flags 22:48:10 #!foo is ugly tho. sigh, standards. 22:48:28 http://docs.google.com/View?id=dc46qrdf_17w7v486hc 22:48:33 #! should have been reserved for scsh-style comments :P 22:48:49 I'll try to reserve #!/ 22:49:21 the actual byte sequence is "#! /", typically 22:49:26 note the space 22:49:36 i think there is a posix standard about that 22:49:58 *wingo* could be remembering wrong of course 22:50:24 Posix is actually silent about #! comments 22:50:34 But I always use #!/bin/sh and it works fine with no space. 22:50:53 In effect, the "#!" is a magic number for an executable, and executable formats is not a Posix issue. 22:50:54 wikipedia claims "There have been rumours that some old versions of UNIX look for the normal shebang followed by a space and a slash ("#! /"), but this appears to be untrue." 22:51:07 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.120] has joined #scheme 22:51:08 i thought the magic number was 4-byte, but i appear to be wrong 22:51:16 Nah, it goes back to the PDP-11. 22:51:28 http://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/shebang/#details 22:51:32 -!- greyhame [~jao@236.Red-213-98-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:32 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:33 -!- pjb [~t@95.124.11.78] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:33 -!- Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:51:34 anyway :) 22:52:01 ah, i probably got that from the autoconf tutorial, then, as that web page notes. 22:52:08 excellent, one more piece of trivia 22:52:10 *wingo* hoards 22:53:18 greyhame [~jao@236.Red-213-98-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:53:18 drwho [~drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:53:18 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:53:18 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 22:53:18 davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has joined #scheme 22:53:18 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 22:53:18 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:53:18 pjb [~t@95.124.11.78] has joined #scheme 22:53:18 Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:53:33 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:53:40 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:45 Why constant vectors must be quoted? 22:53:51 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:54:01 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:54:04 Tradition. 22:54:26 Just this?! 22:54:36 As far as I know. 22:54:46 Common Lisp has changed this, but Scheme (so far) has not. 22:55:24 This question has been bugging me for such a long time. And the answer is "tradition". 22:55:39 fda314925 [~fda314925@121.124.124.117] has joined #scheme 22:55:39 I tested a bunch of Schemes a few days ago, and most of them do allow it. But it is not in RnRS for any n. 22:55:40 *mario-goulart* is disappointed 22:55:45 http://web.mit.edu/~axch/www/scheme/choices/self-evaluating-vectors.html 22:55:45 (define a 1) (define b 2) (define c #(a b)). What is c? 22:56:27 a vector of 1 and 2 22:56:52 Hey, a great resource, Daemmerung. Thanks. 22:57:23 In chicken it's an error. In guile it's #(a b) 22:58:46 That ambiguity is why I like my vectors non-self-evaluating. There's always quasiquotation. 22:59:04 nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has joined #scheme 22:59:16 xwl [~user@124-168-127-213.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 22:59:20 I don't see it as an ambiguity. #(a b) is the only reasonable non-error value AFAICS. 22:59:42 Daemmerung: interesting point. 23:00:15 R6RS bytevectors are self-evaluating, apparently by analogy with strings rather than vectors. 23:00:42 But if I wanted #(1 2) I'd have written (vector a b), no? 23:01:13 mario-goulart: that's not the same 23:01:27 Ok, bad example. 23:01:37 hm 23:01:44 no, sorry, i misunderstood you 23:01:50 Yes, provided you are writing Scheme code and not a data file. 23:01:53 I Formally Withdraw My Comment Your Honor 23:02:34 jcowan: I don't believe that R6 bytevector literals can contain identifiers. 23:03:00 No, sure. 23:04:52 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:55 guile> (define a 1) 23:04:55 guile> (define b 2) 23:04:55 guile> #(a b) 23:04:55 #(a b) 23:04:58 guile> '#(a b) 23:05:01 #(a b) 23:05:04 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 23:06:08 As far as I understand, quoting vectors doesn't do anything practical, right? 23:06:25 (unless when the implementation says it's an error). 23:06:35 (like chicken does) 23:09:41 mario-goulart: see that page i linked to 23:09:56 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.235.192] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:00 wingo: I'm reading it. The table is very interesting. 23:10:05 indeed 23:10:11 rickmode [~rickmode@64.134.235.192] has joined #scheme 23:10:30 but specifically, the comment regarding self-evaluating vectors. 23:11:45 Radul's example is better than mine, though mine is what provokes my own biases. I look for QUOTE to tell me that an identifier is or is not a symbol. 23:12:04 Note that the Chicken is Chicken 2.5, which is very old, so the particular results are not to be trusted. 23:12:34 -!- hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5AC8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:12:41 And the PLT is v360. 23:12:45 jcowan: I'm testing it with chicken 4.3.4 23:13:03 would be nice to run his tests against newer schemes. still though, i doubt many of the results change 23:13:31 My point is: does quoting vectors make sense? 23:14:00 mario-goulart: Does quoting numbers make sense? 23:14:24 Quoting anything makes sense, but we assume that '3 and 3 mean the same thing (though in a 2-LISP it doesn't) 23:14:32 s/it doesn't/they don't 23:15:03 mejja: no 23:15:15 Numbers don't contain identifiers, or lists that look like combinations. 23:15:16 mario-goulart: and what about characters? 23:15:23 or #t and #f? 23:15:25 no 23:15:40 Daemmerung: Some characters do, though, like #\space. 23:15:59 That's a single lexeme, jcowan. 23:16:11 I know. But if you're thinking about what things *look like*, it's relevant. 23:16:44 Looks like one thing to me. I don't see an identifier in #\space. 23:17:20 I don't see an identifier (as opposed to a symbol) in #(a b) either. 23:17:49 You don't see a combination in #((+ 1 2) 3)? 23:18:40 Or in #((let ((a (+ 3 2))) (eq? a a)) 42)? 23:18:51 No. Once I see #(, all is quoted to me, just as when I see ' or ` or #\ or whatever. 23:19:04 Chicken damage. 23:19:05 Are vectors supposed to have its elements evaluated when not quoted? 23:19:12 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-75-69-96-50.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:19:26 I don't actually write code that leaves #(...) unquoted (though I did write code for Chez that left () unquoted). 23:19:38 I'm just saying it wouldn't bother me one bit if vectors were self-evaluating. 23:19:46 mario-goulart: No. 23:20:09 There are even a couple of Schemes I tested (I forget which) that politely say "You must quote vectors" rather than reporting a generic syntax error. 23:20:20 mario-goulart: This isn't about what is, but rather what might be. 23:20:32 I think it would be even politer to accept the vector and maybe print a portability warning. 23:20:49 And since about half the Schemes I tried actually do accept it, it's not all that unportable. 23:20:54 Just unstandard. 23:21:08 like identifiers starting with @ 23:21:08 (parameterize ((politenessman-mode? #t)) ...) 23:21:14 hehe 23:22:57 Using an identifier like @foo is asking for trouble when you write ,@foo some day. 23:23:02 If quoting a vector produces the same result as not quoting it, I see no reason why evaluating it unquoted should be an error. 23:23:29 jcowan: :-) 23:23:30 As Daemmerung says, it tends to reduce a certain kind of misreading to make that not valid. 23:23:44 mario-goulart: how do you feel about empty combinations? 23:24:13 What are empty combinations? 23:24:20 () 23:24:43 Unquoted, that's a syntax error in Scheme. 23:24:53 That "could" be a call to a nothing. 23:24:55 Actually, it's a vague spot in the R5RS. 23:25:06 #() is not a call to anything. 23:25:22 See Radul's writeup on () 23:26:01 "Endless potential for bikeshed debates" - that is perfect!! 23:26:13 -!- greyhame [~jao@236.Red-213-98-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:26:19 :-) 23:26:29 I'd prefer it to be illegal, myself. 23:26:36 Most people think it is illegal, I think. 23:26:47 jcowan: do you happen to have a link to Radul's text? 23:27:18 http://web.mit.edu/~axch/www/scheme/choices.html is the main page 23:27:26 click on the links at the left to explore the issues 23:27:39 *mario-goulart* facepalms 23:28:12 jcowan: thanks. I didn't associate the name to the text. :-) 23:28:31 I don't know. "() is not a syntactically valid expression" seems pretty unambiguous to me. 23:29:15 r5rs 4.1.3 23:29:15 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 4.1.3. 23:30:37 Probably yes. Radul obviously reads it as merely saying that () is not a combination. 23:34:10 Per 7.1.3, () also cannot be a literal, a lambda expression, a conditional, an assignment, a derived expression, a macro use, or a macro block. Since any one of those (plus procedure call) would make it some sort of expression. 23:34:29 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:10 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-24-104.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:35:21 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.146.34] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 23:35:39 But #() is a different thing, isn't it? 23:36:18 It is a datum. 23:38:36 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 23:38:49 (regarding to (), recent chickens consider it an error) 23:39:07 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:32 "I am not a statistic!" "Very true. You are a datum." 23:40:26 *Daemmerung* is not a de Bruijn number-- he is a free variable! 23:42:09 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.0.116] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:42:19 hehe 23:43:40 incubot: I thought Daemmerung were married 23:43:43 Hi i need some hints for a project.. we're doing this simple family tree thing but im stuck at one point... if i want to know children or parents i have to find all related spouses.. like if mary married bill then remarried to bill and the guys never remarry the couples list would be something like ( (mary bill) (mary dink) )... problem is if i want to find all children of bill that will include children bound to mary and dink, even 23:45:39 incubot: if A has chidren c1 and c2 with B, and C has children c3 and c4 with D, and A remarry with D, that doesn't make c3 and c4 children of A, unless he adopts them. 23:45:42 Hi i need some hints for a project.. we're doing this simple family tree thing but im stuck at one point... if i want to know children or parents i have to find all related spouses.. like if mary married bill then remarried to bill and the guys never remarry the couples list would be something like ( (mary bill) (mary dink) )... problem is if i want to find all children of bill that will include children bound to mary and dink, even 23:46:08 Whoa. /keanu 23:46:12 incubot: Another example is that there are fatherless children. 23:46:15 so make a list like: (bob), and find all the children of the first element of the list, pluggin them in if not already in that list, which results in 23:46:34 incubot: therefore the parent-child relationship is independant of the couples. 23:46:37 A tender relationship with bits I guess. 23:46:40 *Daemmerung* had better get out of here while there's still a little sunshine 23:47:03 :-) 23:48:20 *wingo* hopes the sfp returns to europe at some point... 23:48:28 north america for the last 3 years now 23:52:13 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:25 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 23:56:44 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@2620:0:1003:1005:21a:a0ff:fe13:f0c0] has left #scheme 23:56:55 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:57:48 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-118-219.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:58:17 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:59:38 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme