00:05:14 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:05:32 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-151-205-123-229.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:13 masm [~masm@bl10-5-19.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 00:15:10 -!- masm [~masm@bl10-5-19.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:22:15 "Racket" as in "What the hell were they smoking" 00:23:53 damn kids 00:25:28 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DDAEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:25:36 I mean, 1 Apr is six weeks away. Kind of early 00:26:01 *Daemmerung* got TED swag from his wife for V-day 00:27:34 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:30:21 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:34:59 -!- wingo [~wingo@235.Red-79-151-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:40:45 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 00:43:12 docl [~luke@97-120-215-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 00:45:28 Daemmerung: didja get one o' those free Google phones? Huh? Huh? 00:50:40 I did indeed!! 00:52:49 *offby1* seethes with envy 00:52:53 serves me right for askin' 00:59:32 Yeah, but now I have to learn Java. 01:00:02 uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 01:00:20 And barbeque for her in the rain. Quid pro quo. 01:07:36 offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 01:09:11 -!- alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:25 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:10:19 Free Google phones? Where? Where?! 01:10:26 Daemmerung: Port SISC! 01:11:44 chandler: That's my plan. Pocket Scheme will rise again, alleluia. 01:13:38 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 01:13:40 -!- offby1 [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:13:40 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 01:15:24 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:38 -!- Fabse [~mightyfid@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 01:21:55 blagobu [~blagobu@modemcable004.220-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:23:28 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.175] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:23:44 I never could get motivated to write an Android app, because the thought of learning Java makes my heart sink. 01:23:47 Maybe moby. 01:23:52 Dooby dooby 01:24:43 get thee behind me, penguin 01:25:36 -!- errordeveloper [~errordeve@host86-129-186-136.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:28:14 errordeveloper [~errordeve@host86-129-186-136.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 01:30:32 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:31:28 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:32:21 -!- offby1 is now known as flotz 01:32:23 -!- flotz is now known as offby1 01:34:01 offby1: You could write in Clojure instead of Java. ;) 01:34:31 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:34:44 -!- errordeveloper [~errordeve@host86-129-186-136.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:35:23 winxordie: can I? 01:35:59 I was under the impression that Clojure requires a top-notch garbage collector, but Dalvik's gc isn't so hot 01:36:38 anyway, I have no idea how I'd go from a Clojure program to a working Android program, but I bet it'd be even more tedious, fussy, and unreliable than simply using Java and the Android SDK in the "official" way, which has already proven to be quite difficult indeed (for me) 01:38:42 gah. I forgot about that little gc thing. 01:39:19 it's the little things that trip up scheme on java. :( 01:39:45 -er on the jvm. hehe. 01:40:16 anyway, all this is a long-winded way of saying: I'm _extremely_ lazy. 01:40:24 errordeveloper [~errordeve@host86-129-186-136.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 01:40:43 If it's harder than typing code into a single file, and then executing a single shell command to run that file on the emulator ... 01:41:24 lol. nothing wrong with lazy. what was it again? laziness, hubris, etc. 01:44:38 meric [~Eric@124-171-63-122.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 01:47:21 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #scheme 01:54:01 mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 01:54:35 I'm very disappointed by Dalvik's pathetic garbage collector (and lack of JIT or AOT). Why in 20-frickin'-10 should people be told that it's good to avoid allocation in a garbage-collected environment? 01:55:36 offby1: There's also a version of Scala for Android, but this may or may not be preferable to learning Java in the first place. 02:01:23 yeah, I've heard about Scala. Other than that it runs on the JVM, I know nothing about it 02:03:26 -!- uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:03:59 It's supposedly more palatable than Java, but much of the hype I've heard has come from Rubyists. This gives me pause. 02:06:01 Daemmerung: If you are seriously looking at porting SISC to Android, count me in. I'm too lazy (more accurately, too busy) to do this by myself, but I'm more than happy to pitch in if someone else takes charge. 02:06:56 Of course, there's also the possibility of using a native Scheme (Chibi) with the NDK, and with the odd little JSON-based API bridge that's included in the Android Scripting Environment. 02:07:07 Er, that was supposed to be "(Chibi?)". 02:10:25 What's the NDK? 02:13:48 The NDK is the oddly-named SDK that includes the usual set of gcc compilers for building ARM native shared libraries that can be called from Java applications. 02:20:57 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:22:18 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:26:43 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:27:08 davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:31:43 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-195.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:33:25 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:34:57 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.216] has joined #scheme 02:35:06 alexsuraci [~alexsurac@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:36:44 ARM? 02:36:56 oh, the CPU 02:37:02 It's the more compact version of LEG. 02:37:03 uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 02:40:11 LEG was, of course, a necessary predecessor for ROMP. 02:40:40 techonaut [~chatzilla@130.108.57.154] has joined #scheme 02:41:31 is there a way to convert define to letrec in scheme 02:41:32 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:42:18 no 02:42:38 techonaut: What kind of `define'? 02:42:59 Also, what kind of Scheme? 02:43:06 i don't want to use helper functions with define, instead i would like to use helper functions using letrec 02:44:06 For the R5RS, see: http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-8.html#%_sec_5.2.2 02:44:07 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yeea76h 02:44:30 I use Dr. Scheme to code BTW 02:44:35 ... yeea76h? 02:44:35 http://pastebin.com/m7fbe54e5 02:44:40 lisppaste: url? 02:44:40 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 02:45:11 For future reference, we prefer lisppaste here. 02:45:18 Yikes. Your closing parens sure look lonely. 02:46:02 so, is there a way i can change my helper function to a letrec 02:46:58 Which helper function? 02:47:21 cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:48:23 techonaut pasted "intersect" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94963 02:49:00 pls refer to the paste, where i indicated the helper function 02:49:00 Yes; that can be trivially converted to a `letrec'. 02:49:10 can u tell me how 02:49:39 To start with, you should rewrite (define (element? x lst) ...) as (define element? (lambda (x lst) ...)) . 02:49:56 Then, simply take that `lambda' expression and bind it using `letrec'. 02:51:07 yes but, letrec expects an expression after defining some variables. Whereas, define doesn't expect any expression after the definitions 02:51:53 Right; you'll need to surround the expressions where you use the helper function in the `letrec' binding. 02:53:59 techonaut annotated #94963 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94963#1 02:54:25 can u give me an example using this program http://paste.lisp.org/display/94963#1 02:54:33 That's not how `letrec' works. 02:54:41 What book are you following to learn Scheme? 02:54:57 ppts from my school website 02:55:38 Gosh. It's a shame that educators can't be charged with malpractice. 02:56:16 so can u give me an example of letrec with the function i just gave 02:56:52 (This also applies to those who taught you to write in English.) 02:57:03 I can show you how `letrec' is used. 02:57:25 (letrec ((name-1 value-1) (name-2 value-2) ...) body-forms-here! ...) 02:57:39 I'm trying to be as short and precise as possible. I'm not really sure if strict grammar is applied here. 02:57:42 You need to actually bind the lambda expression to a name. 02:58:11 Yes, could you please give me an example of the same. 02:58:39 Can you take a guess at it, given the format I just showed you? 02:59:38 Let me confirm something, if I write a helper function using define, can I re-write it using letrec? 03:00:34 That's a very broad question. In this specific case, you can certainly bind `element?' locally in the definition of `intersect' using `letrec'. 03:00:53 Top-level defines can't, in general, be converted to anything else. 03:01:43 Yes, exactly. I'm trying to to bind element? locally in the definition of 'intersect' and I'm struck there. 03:02:13 OK. The `letrec' needs to surround the body of `intersect' - this would be the outermoust `if' expression. 03:02:41 Additionally, the syntax for `letrec' expects you to bind a name to the form. This would be something like (letrec ((element? (lambda (x lst) ...))) ...) . 03:03:30 I'm trying.. 03:05:17 -!- blagobu [~blagobu@modemcable004.220-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:07:16 techonaut annotated #94963 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94963#2 03:07:49 You've misplaced your parens. 03:07:55 That paste gives me an error. Any suggestions? 03:08:55 Could you pls point where exactly? 03:08:56 Move your mouse over the binding of `element?' in that paste. The paren directly following the identifier `letrec' should be highlighted in yellow. That paren needs to be closed before the body. 03:09:42 Note how that differs from the template I gave: (letrec ((element? (lambda (x lst) ...))) ...) 03:10:44 Checking.. 03:12:40 -!- mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 03:13:21 Code complied.. 03:13:37 But, I got an error after execution. 03:14:04 techonaut annotated #94963 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94963#3 03:15:32 -!- errordeveloper [~errordeve@host86-129-186-136.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:15:45 Could you pls point the error in http://paste.lisp.org/display/94963#3 03:16:31 cky_ [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:16:41 -!- cky [~cky@cpe-065-190-148-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:16:46 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 03:17:20 Well, the first thing I see is that your parens are off. Check the `cond' expression. 03:17:26 offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 03:17:27 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 03:17:29 Do you have a TA who you can ask for help on this? 03:17:39 Not really. 03:18:20 errordeveloper [~errordeve@host86-129-186-136.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 03:21:01 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:26:29 Do we need to change the body of the function when re-writing with a letrec 03:26:54 Bcoz, it worked fine when I ran the code as a function with define. 03:27:49 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:28:20 If the function you were binding with `letrec' was the same as the one you bound with `define', it might indeed work. 03:28:24 You changed it. Why? 03:28:42 kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has joined #scheme 03:30:04 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:30:34 Bcoz, I din't want to have helper functions with define as there are a series of sub program's and I wanted only the main programs to be with define and the rest with letrec 03:30:53 main functions* 03:31:01 That's not what I was asking about. Why did you change the `cond' expression? 03:32:36 I didn't? 03:33:59 I'm sorry, but I can't help you in that case. 03:38:55 Can you suggest a good book or site to learn scheme basics. 03:54:42 techonaut: have you had a look at htdp.org? 03:54:54 techonaut: it's pretty accessable 03:55:00 -!- pestario [~pestario@ool-43522f54.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:55:56 -!- tjafk [~timj@e176201053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:58:26 -!- offby1` [~user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:58:27 offby1` [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 03:58:35 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 03:59:43 SharkBrain: Will try now.. 04:18:57 chandler: I haven't even unboxed the phone yet, but I'm serious about getting a Scheme on it, and SISC looks like the shortest route to a quality result on that platform. (A route that I'll retrek if Amazon green-lights my Kindle dev beta request.) Ordinarily I'd be all about NDK+armasm, yeah. 04:20:03 chandler: Also, I have zero Java chops right now. Really dreading acquiring them, but one does what one must. 04:20:43 Solamen miseris socios, etc 04:22:09 I haven't written a line of Java in years, but it's really Not That Hard. 04:22:52 From what I gather, it's less the writing than the surrounding incantations and evocations necessary. Anyway. I will learn. 04:23:10 Daemmerung: Do have a look at the Android Scripting Environment too: http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ 04:25:02 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 04:26:41 yeah, to the "surrounding incantations and evocations" 04:31:13 Thanks, noted. I have a bit of a learning curve to surmount. First, however, to unbox. (The Valentine just marched into my office, bearing her geeky gift, along with orders to unbox same. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.) 04:37:11 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:56 -!- techonaut [~chatzilla@130.108.57.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:13 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 05:06:25 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-121-211.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:08:39 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-29-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:18:16 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-15-130.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:18:18 Hey everyone. 05:18:21 How's it going? 05:18:48 I've got a little macro question that has me all curious about things, and I wonder if some Syntactic Closure and Explicit Renaming experts can help. 05:20:17 jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has joined #scheme 05:20:40 arcfide pasted "Macro Challenge" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94969 05:21:15 arcfide annotated #94969 "Correct Output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94969#1 05:21:58 I am trying to understand how you express certain paradigms in ER and SC macros. I know how to do these with syntax-case, but I'm interesting in knowing the other solutions. 05:30:33 *offby1* stares blankly 05:30:38 macros are hard 05:30:40 *offby1* goes shopping 05:35:39 offby1: What, not even a go at it?! 05:35:40 :-) 05:41:53 -!- Belaf [~campedel@net-93-144-91-149.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has left #scheme 05:43:03 I couldn't even answer a very basic macro question on the PLT list 05:44:53 Haha. What? 05:44:57 I don't believe it. 05:45:12 With all the time you've spent here, you still have not tackled the illustrious macro? 05:47:35 well, I know a _leetle_ bit. 05:47:42 If I can find a URL to the message, I'll post it. 05:50:22 (man, that was hard to find) 05:50:23 http://list.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-scheme/2010-February/038161.html 05:50:43 spent ten minutes reading the PLT docs, and trying random stuff at the repl; got nowhere 05:51:20 offby1, thats interesting to know. what do you find defficient about the docs? 05:51:23 not enough examples? 05:53:25 jonrafkind: well, it's hard to articulate, other than that they didn't help me figure out how to do what the guy wants. Did you read the mailing list post? 05:53:34 offby1: I would be surprised if there were a straightforward means of writing a macro which then allows you to evaluate any expression like (3 in-add 5) => 8. 05:53:37 yea, i think he wants syntax-id-rules 05:53:38 I suspect that what he wants is actually quite diffuclt 05:53:47 I tried syntax-id-rules for about two minutes; got nowhere 05:53:59 I presume that the answer is actually to have a wrapped syntax for doing this, like (infix (3 + 5)). 05:54:18 arcfide: it'd be interesting to try to explain why that's necessary. 05:54:19 Sort of equivalent to a QUOTE form. 05:54:36 I can imagine someone asking me "if Scheme is so great, why can't I define this simple macro?" 05:54:42 I would have no idea how to answer that. 05:54:51 I'm also in a foul mood, in case you can't tell :) 05:54:58 offby1: The expansion process is fairly rigid in regards to this, so I suspect that it would require this sort of behavior, at least from an R6RS perspective. You can alter the way application occures, in PLT, but I don't know if that extends to macros. 05:56:01 I know that PLT has a funny infix form ... 05:56:07 rudybot: eval (3 . + . 2) 05:56:14 *offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 05:56:15 *offby1* drums fingers 05:56:21 damn, that's happening again 05:56:23 rudybot: eval (3 . + . 2) 05:56:24 oh wait I guess what he wants is impossible, its not syntax-id-rules 05:56:26 *offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 05:56:30 offby1: I can certainly explain why I don't think you can do this in R6RS. 05:56:41 anyway, (3 . + . 2) => 5 05:56:45 syntax-id-rules would just let you give a meaning to the infix operator, but it can't accept the other 2 arguments 05:57:08 offby1: That's an additional syntax that has to be built into the reader, I believe. 06:00:47 offby1: If you follow the expansion process outlined in R6RS, you'll note that how you handle a form is based on the first element in the form. In this case, that 3 is going to be considered an expression, as opposed to any of the other special forms. This means that all of the definitions there will be handled, and then the rest of this expression, and the following expressions will be expanded. In this case, each term in the fo 06:00:47 this case), will be expanded in turn. Because of this, the in-add transformer will be called with a syntax object something like #. It will not know about the 3 or the 5. 06:01:35 bummer 06:01:42 hope someone can answer that guy's email 06:03:21 Now, I think you can control in PLT the application or something like that, and it is possible, then, that you could implement something like the . prefix notation which would allow you to do this. 06:10:07 I think "NO GODDAMMIT SCHEME DONT WORK THAT WAY" would be a fine answer. 06:15:41 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:22:23 Hrm, does Chibi Scheme use ER macros? 06:23:41 Ah, no, it's syntactic closures. 06:24:12 arcfide: It supports both. 06:24:32 Actually, all of the library syntax is either syntax-rules or ER. 06:25:15 foof: Really? 06:25:30 foof: Do you happen to know how to translate the macro above into either Syntactic Closures or ER macros? 06:25:45 Blasted WG1 got me thinking about this and now I'm very curious. 06:26:05 I've only studied the ER approach at the moment, and I can't see how to do it. 06:29:35 busy right now... maybe a little later 06:30:03 No rush. :-) 06:34:11 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:47:56 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-109-243.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:50:06 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:51:11 copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:53:36 -!- nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has left #scheme 06:55:20 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 07:11:05 mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 07:17:54 -!- Len_ [~Len@87.70.13.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:56 Len_ [~Len@87.70.13.20] has joined #scheme 07:21:09 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-15-130.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:21:37 -!- jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:23:03 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 07:29:12 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-15-130.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:29:14 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:39:10 mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 07:43:54 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:49:52 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:51:07 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:51:10 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-15-130.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 07:52:04 -!- ski_ [~md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:53:08 wingo [~wingo@235.Red-79-151-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 07:56:38 ski_ [~md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 07:58:23 lol xkcd :) 07:59:36 well, sure. 08:01:51 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 08:01:53 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:01 -!- kilimanjaro [~kilimanja@unaffiliated/kilimanjaro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:04:09 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 08:05:25 well, it's not _always_ funny 08:05:57 -!- sockpuppetzero [~sockpuppe@unaffiliated/sockpuppetzero] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:06:54 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 08:07:18 *Daemmerung* didn't get "kid with duplicator" 08:07:44 he's duplicating himself and forking off extra tracks 08:07:54 *Daemmerung* facepalms 08:08:02 Legolas actually had a duplicator too. 08:08:06 like duh. Thank you, explainerator. 08:10:15 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-15-130.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:10:15 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-15-130.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 08:10:50 I didn't get "kid with duplicator" either, but it was merely one of a bunch of panels, most of which made me chuckle, so I didn't sweat it 08:10:52 In related news, I'm also not getting the great new taste(trademark) of teh Googlephone. Perhaps because I'm not approaching it as an iPhone fanatic. Perhaps because my neurons have calcified into complete inelasticity over the last week. 08:11:09 Daemmerung: OK, I'll take it off your hands for a generous $42 08:11:36 I have an old G1, which I love/hate. 08:12:02 The hate is due to frustrating slowness and frustrating flakiness; I'm hoping the spiffy N1 is fasterer and less-flakier. 08:12:15 The nexus/one hardware is lovely. The interface continues to mystify. 08:12:17 (just ordered an N1 myself, so don't say anything too bad) 08:12:34 I can deal with the interface OK. Nowhere near as nice as the iPhone, but tolerable 08:12:42 betcha can't make folders in a folder though. 08:13:41 I am not what one would call a cellphone "powar usar." Prolly not their target market. 08:14:45 I am, however, Good With Computers, and so my spasticity does not bode well for gross-grandma market acceptance. 08:15:12 *Daemmerung* wishes the damned thing had a CLI 08:15:16 it does. 08:15:17 seriously. 08:15:24 Where dat? 08:15:40 well, download "connectbot" (a lovely ssh client) and make a connection to localhost. 08:15:53 you can't really do anything interesting unless you "root" the phone, though. 08:15:58 I made the mistake of entering gmail, and escaped literally by mashing random fucking buttons 08:16:03 heh 08:16:19 (I've heard that google even provides a sanctioned "rooting kit" for the n1, but have never seen it) 08:16:20 "There's an app for that!" (sfx: shotgun) 08:16:46 if you're not a total google whore like me, the phone may not be all that attractive. 08:16:52 but I love having data sync. 08:16:57 the iPhone doesn't do that, as far as I know. 08:17:16 (by "sync", I mean: reside locally on the phone, so you can get at it even without a data connection) 08:17:23 Might also be a problem that my broad, spatulate fingers are more suited for eating sausage and root vegetables than pressing goddamn fucking tiny virtual keys meant for underfed emo boyz 08:17:35 the virtual keyboard on my G1 is -awful- 08:17:38 nearly unusable 08:18:01 oh, and did I mention the horribly short battery life? Nasty and brutish, too 08:18:06 Heh 08:20:09 I always assumes that because of my unique, orcish physiognomy, I'd end up with a Blackberry. This one just fell into my lap because my Valentine is already pledges to the love of the Turtlenecked One 08:20:42 ? 08:20:49 Sweetie is an iPhone user, so ... 08:20:53 that means you get a N1? 08:20:55 *offby1* don't follow 08:21:23 She had an iPhone, she attended TED, she dumped the surplus l00t upon moi 08:22:03 This is a persistent pattern, bless her heart 08:22:33 aaaahhhh 08:22:56 She did this twelvish years ago, which is how I got into hacking WinCE 08:23:45 well, anyway; if you live inside gmail and google reader, it's probably great. If not, it'll be some variety of "meh". 08:23:58 mine does have a benighted little IMAP client; I never use it. 08:24:05 I was just going to ask 08:25:30 -!- wingo [~wingo@235.Red-79-151-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:26:07 I definitely do not live within the Google universe. If it can answer telephone calls and serve as a lightweight general calculator, I'll be satisfied. 08:26:32 mmc [~mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 08:26:42 gotta warn ya -- mine has _rebooted_ during calls. Many times. 08:26:43 Am currently the user of a geriatric Moto flip-phone, 80% of which I never access. 08:27:04 granted, all but one of those reboots were before the most recent OS upgrade. But that last one ... 08:27:08 Oh! How wonderful! It'll be WinMo all over again. 08:27:08 *offby1* fumes, shakes fist 08:27:31 Oh no! It's nothing like Windows Mobile -- why, it's Linux! It's Free Software!!1!! 08:27:45 It shows a -penguin- when it bluescreens. 08:27:51 (Well, not really.) 08:28:00 *offby1* is in a foul mood generally 08:28:05 This TED manna, first thing it does, updates its firmware. And its existing firmware was from mid goddamn January, as I discovered from my random button mashing which led to a very reassuring bootloader type seq 08:28:46 If it shows a. goddamn. penguin. Im-a gonna get my AR-15 out of its cosmoline, just on general principles. 08:29:00 heh 08:29:16 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #scheme 08:29:26 *Daemmerung* is only cranky because he expected so much 08:29:31 "Whenever he drove through Yorkville, Rosenbaum got angry, just on general principles". 08:30:01 ^^ First line of the novel "Marathon Man", my favorite book decades ago 08:30:31 I did NOT know that Mr. Princess Bride wrote that 08:31:54 Oh, yes. I almost forgot to bitch about Java. 08:32:02 If you read 'em both you'll find they're very similar 08:32:09 -!- meric [~Eric@124-171-63-122.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:15 you'll probably like (or dislike) them about equally; I did 08:32:49 Sam Morgenstern is all I've ever read of his 08:34:14 incubot: do you have any general principles? 08:34:18 I don't know enough about the principles of sign languages to really even start: I know a little bit about ASL and that's it. 08:34:37 I still am awed by the beauty and simplicity of incubot. 08:35:22 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.163] has joined #scheme 08:41:35 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 08:41:45 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has left #scheme 08:42:00 The power of god-knows how many years of random nonsense spewed into this channel. 08:42:28 -!- drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:51 drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:43:10 -!- drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:43:16 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 08:43:34 I had hopes of producing a succubot, but if I end up flailing at Java in my Copious Free Time(tm) that's going to return to the Bad Ideas, Deferred queue. 08:43:42 heh 08:44:04 probably a bad idea to make a similar bot of opposite sex; they'll just slink off and get a room, leaving us bereft of entertainment 08:44:07 meric [~Eric@203-158-63-66.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 08:44:57 It's happened before. Qv sorbet 08:53:27 aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 08:53:59 -!- sphex_ [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:58:04 sphex [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 08:59:34 morning 08:59:54 (#) ... Ha! 09:01:09 *eli* expects certain people to discover shortly that if you put round discs in a certain way you can move more efficiently. 09:01:11 Damn this infernal racket! Can a man not sleep in peace in here? 09:02:19 Well, FWIW, I think that JRM's maneuvers were much more amusing than that xkcd. 09:03:47 "All computer languages should come with a fully parenthesized API to their syntax tree." 09:03:55 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 09:05:49 I'm talking about his wg1 posts, and leading tom lord to re-invent `#lang r7rs' (or `(module r7rs ...)' since he's not talking about a different reader). 09:06:33 choas [~lars@p5B0DCC7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:06:48 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:20 His membership on the WG is like Jerry Lewis: it gives me hope to carry on. 09:09:19 I'm not tracking the contents of the mailing list, however. The Googleplex makes it inconvenient for me, and I of course live for convenience. 09:09:42 alvatar [~alvatar@215.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 09:10:02 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 09:17:11 alaricsp [~alaric@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 09:26:51 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-121-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:28:59 drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 09:37:03 hi 09:37:21 newbie q: 09:37:24 I'm a bit confused 09:37:52 I have a list, and using for-each I iterate it and change with set! everything to '() (for example) 09:38:07 when I display that list again, it didn't change 09:38:34 You must realize there is no list. Then you'll see it's you who will change and not the list. 09:38:35 I'm used to all this by ref/by value stuff of OOP, but I don't know what's happening here 09:38:52 that's very Zen 09:39:20 I like it, but I need to transform it into code :P 09:39:41 so, is foreach making a copy of the list or what¿ 09:39:47 alvatar: you should lisppaste the example that is confounding you 09:40:02 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:34 lisppaste 09:40:36 lisppaste! 09:40:40 /topic 09:40:41 lisppaste: url 09:40:41 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 09:40:43 damn, I always forget it 09:41:25 Hm. Curious idea doing set! in a foreach, actually. 09:41:53 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 09:42:50 alvatar pasted "set! writes or not?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94973 09:44:05 XTL, well I'm very new to functional programming, so I might be doing things in a very awkard way 09:44:16 anyway, I was just trying 09:44:54 The SXML list is very nice to work with, but it encodes all the numbers as strings, so I was thinking of converting all of them in place 09:45:23 it could be done recursively I guess, but I just tried with the code I had already 09:45:50 alvatar: I think that the auto-formatting by lisppaste shows where you 09:46:05 're erring. But I could be wrong. What is that supposed to do? 09:46:50 Daemmerung: at first this iterates and paints the SXML with cairo. That works 09:47:19 But I want now to (for example) remove all 'walls from the list 09:47:34 No no no no. Higher level. Forget about Cairo. 09:47:51 masm [~masm@bl10-5-19.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 09:47:52 what?? 09:47:54 I have no interest in Cairo, SXML, or your mother-in-law. 09:48:07 You are making some claim about for-each. 09:48:08 fortunately I don't have the latter 09:48:22 Lucky you. 09:48:29 yeah, I expected it to let me change whatever I touch with set! 09:48:36 :) 09:48:54 Can you please simplify your example? It is 2am on my side of the planet. 09:49:07 hehehe, its 9am here ;) 09:49:10 give me a sec 09:49:18 Lucky you, noch einmal 09:51:39 Ich bin nicht Deutsch! aber es gibt viele Deutsche hier 09:52:30 alvatar annotated #94973 "should this change a list" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/94973#1 09:53:17 so, here we have the simplified version. This is what I want to do. 09:53:20 is that possible? 09:53:42 No. 09:53:55 ¿? 09:54:17 yeah, then I definitely have some lack of knowledge :D 09:54:37 so, how can I do something *like* that. I mean, the idea is simple, right? 09:54:37 That's okay. It's not intuitive. 09:55:39 Your problem (other than that your definition of "graph" does not compile, but that's okay) is that your lambda sets its local value of "elem." not the member of the parent list that it's walking. 09:56:49 ok, I see. I have some similar situation in D. Is there a way to make that a "reference" to the parent list being walked? 09:57:00 or it needs a completely different approach? 09:57:32 CDA. 09:57:54 lost :S 09:58:04 google doesn't clarify 09:58:18 Completely Different Approach. 09:58:21 HAHAHAHAH 09:58:28 zorry 09:58:45 non-native on the keyboard 09:58:48 r5rs map 09:58:49 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_558 09:58:50 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/5g3njv 09:58:59 voi la. 09:59:40 aaah, yes.. I read that in SICP *blush* 09:59:59 well, I'm doing it. Thank you guys! 10:00:15 No need to blush. I've seen you in this channel for the last week-plus. You're doing better than fine. 10:00:37 hey thanks :) 10:00:51 I enjoy scheme actually! 10:01:51 It will return to punish you; but for now, enjoy it. 10:02:16 *Daemmerung* was trying to think of a more sarcastic response, but failed. too late on this side of the planet 10:03:13 *Daemmerung* returns to his Ukrainian video-game. Of course he is not !&#^%# working at 2am 10:04:17 Ukrainian video-game? 10:06:30 mejja: that's stalker 10:06:40 i guess 10:06:41 S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - after "Roadside Picnic" by the brothers Strugatsky - a story I enjoyed a !&^%# of a lot 10:06:46 bokr: you win 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:31 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 10:21:51 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 10:23:51 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #scheme 10:30:14 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:31:49 incubot: The wedding cake was created by Plourde's Bakery in Fall River, Massachusetts. 10:31:52 may be partially due to local competition, however: I live about 500m from the nearest subway station, and I pass three produce stands, a bakery and a supermarket between it and my abode) 10:32:49 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:33:48 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:42 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:56 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 10:43:54 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:39 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-109-243.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 10:56:03 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:01:24 mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 11:14:52 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:43 incubot: Forecast in chrome and plastic. Tyrants breathing alloy of slavery, planet hunger 11:23:46 ...his future total control. I think it's safe to conclude that some tyrants do not start out benign. 11:25:57 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@215.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:10 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 11:31:21 alvatar [~alvatar@215.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 11:35:19 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:03 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 11:43:01 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-180.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:45:25 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:46:23 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:51 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 11:49:50 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:13 pbusser 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[~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 14:45:26 -!- karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:50:49 -!- ski [~slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:57:10 karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 15:01:09 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:01:35 -!- karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:15 karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 15:03:02 -!- karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:25 karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 15:08:57 offby1: I've recently discovered how to fix the battery life on the blasted G1. 15:11:22 chandler: Does the solution involve some kind of dance? 15:11:43 It involves installing a grody little hack that periodically kills off applications that are running in the background. 15:12:02 -!- ski_ [~md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:12:03 Apparently, this substantially improves the battery life of the device when it's just sitting in my pocket. 15:12:08 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@27.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:15:31 bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 15:20:32 ski [~slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 15:23:26 -!- ski [~slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:07 AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 15:27:08 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:50 ski [~slj@c-0611e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 15:43:28 Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:47:03 josephholsten [~josephhol@70.234.107.67] has joined #scheme 15:47:14 -!- uman [~uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:47:56 bigwavejake [~w0lfpak@sas12242.nat.sas.com] has joined #scheme 15:50:02 Fun thing about programming for mobiles. Profiling thereon entails counting watts as much as counting bytes. 15:50:50 Arcade [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has joined #scheme 15:52:46 -!- Morbeo [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:54:26 rudybot: t8 de en aber es gibt viele Deutsche hier 15:54:26 *offby1: but there are many German here 15:55:21 -!- Arcade [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:55:34 chandler: do tell 15:55:40 Morbeo [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has joined #scheme 15:56:01 chandler: I know of a couple apps that do that (and have one or two installed) 15:57:03 jewel [~jewel@41.30.170.205] has joined #scheme 16:05:45 errordeveloper [~errordeve@host86-129-186-136.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:08:30 ziggurat [~quassel@pool-173-71-25-61.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:09:53 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@pool-173-71-25-61.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:13 ziggurat [~quassel@pool-173-71-25-61.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 16:11:01 -!- hkBst__ [~hkBst@41.184.83.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:11:51 -!- bigwavejake [~w0lfpak@sas12242.nat.sas.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.30.170.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:15:00 alvatar [~alvatar@27.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:15:15 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:18:36 offby1: I'm using, let's see here, something called "Advanced Task Manager". 16:19:00 I have no idea how it compares to other task managers or killers. 16:20:08 I have it set up to kill any non-active application on 30 minute intervals, excluding a few that pop up background notifications that are important (Beautiful Widgets for weather, Silent Time Lite for muting the chirp at night). 16:21:31 Not only does it seem to reduce the incidence of odd behavior (refusing to place, pick up, or switch calls, or taking forever to bring up the dialer), but I've been surprised to discover that my battery is not completely drained at the end of the day anymore. 16:26:39 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 16:29:04 -!- mmc [~mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:29:47 mmc [~mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 16:30:15 -!- mmc [~mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:32:51 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-52-82-65-65-63.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:34:49 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:34:55 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:42:26 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:46:03 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:44 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-180.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:46:57 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-180.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 16:48:32 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-22-139.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:55:30 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:41 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:25:22 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:25:27 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 17:27:59 when I type (define head (list ears mouth nose eyes hair)) 17:28:11 I get undefined indentifiers 17:28:26 however, ears are defined 17:28:44 what about the rest of them 17:29:04 yeah, all of them 17:29:12 they are all defined 17:29:15 -!- karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:29:19 mesa is confused 17:29:26 does the error say which identifiers are undefined? 17:29:39 however, if I make it a procedure they will evaluate 17:29:52 jonrafkind: yeah, ears. 17:31:42 its a bit silly example.. but I can paste it . 17:31:50 sure paste it 17:31:53 in lisppaste 17:32:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/94994 17:32:40 karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 17:33:31 put the ears definition above head 17:34:10 does that matter? 17:34:27 yea 17:34:36 hm 17:34:57 you can define mutually recursive functions in any order but not plain pieces of data 17:35:00 cool 17:35:02 thanks 17:35:08 that will be todays lesson :) 17:35:21 it has to do with letrec, if you want to explore further 17:38:34 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:39:13 -!- meric [~Eric@203-214-145-35.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: meric] 17:43:27 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@70.234.107.67] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 17:45:59 -!- pbusser [~pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 17:50:00 -!- bweaver is now known as weaver` 17:50:26 -!- weaver` is now known as bweaver 17:53:59 josephholsten [~josephhol@wsip-70-184-255-9.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 17:57:00 -!- docl [~luke@97-120-215-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:27 -!- mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:08:18 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:55 -!- drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:20:33 josephholsten_ [~josephhol@wsip-70-184-255-9.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:18 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@wsip-70-184-255-9.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:22:18 -!- josephholsten_ is now known as josephholsten 18:29:14 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:29:35 mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:32:19 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 18:36:03 drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:36:37 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 18:39:15 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:42:34 davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:09:18 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@wsip-70-184-255-9.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 19:11:55 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:15:35 wingo [~wingo@235.Red-79-151-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:15 mije [~antoine@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:58 hello, whoever you are 19:23:45 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 19:24:03 -!- wingo [~wingo@235.Red-79-151-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:13 is there an advantage in writing a procedure (define foo (lambda arg) ...) rather than (define (foo arg) ...) ? 19:26:44 Beginners often find it clearer 19:27:08 sorry (define (foo (lambda (arg) ...)) 19:27:14 okay 19:27:42 No, you got it right the first time 19:29:24 both are ok i guess 19:29:50 No, (define (foo (lambda (arg) ...))) is invalid 19:31:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:35 it seems it depends on the implementation, it's ok in plt 19:33:16 ! 19:33:24 It's not ok in plt, I just checked 19:33:30 It says there's a missing procedure body 19:33:47 And lambda list expected 19:36:06 josephholsten [~josephhol@70.234.126.173] has joined #scheme 19:39:33 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@70.234.126.173] has quit [Client Quit] 19:40:22 wingo [~wingo@84.Red-81-39-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:43:34 bipt` [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:43:41 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:37 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 19:45:03 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:45:29 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 19:50:31 -!- alaricsp [~alaric@217.205.201.45] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51:34 saccade_ [~saccade@2002:126f:4151:9:21e:c2ff:febb:cedd] has joined #scheme 19:54:21 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:56:35 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 20:00:13 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@27.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:04:58 ah ok 20:05:16 josephholsten [~josephhol@adsl-70-234-126-173.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:05:30 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@adsl-70-234-126-173.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 20:05:36 (define foo (lambda (arg) ...)) and not (define (foo (lambda (arg) ... ))) my mistake 20:05:38 djjack [~djjack@cpe-098-026-029-215.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:07:04 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 20:11:20 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:37 -!- djjack [~djjack@cpe-098-026-029-215.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:15:51 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:59 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 20:16:04 jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has joined #scheme 20:16:10 -!- mario-goulart [~user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:12 -!- jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has quit [Quit: return EXIT_SUCCESS;] 20:33:46 -!- davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:13 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:40:53 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 20:41:26 -!- mije [~antoine@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:36 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@pool-173-71-25-61.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:01 davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:01 -!- aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:54:19 aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 20:58:42 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:59:21 -!- aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:24 aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 21:00:34 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:14:16 kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:14:37 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:16:46 _pr0t0type_ [~prototype@cpe-66-65-36-202.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:17:07 <_pr0t0type_> hi. what does the '.' (dot) operator do in scheme again? I can't find anything on google. 21:18:03 '(a . b) is like (cons 'a . 'b) 21:18:07 wait 21:18:10 '(a . b) is like (cons 'a 'b) 21:18:31 it indicates a pair or the end of an improper list 21:18:47 It is not an operator. 21:19:25 <_pr0t0type_> how can you cons into an atom 'b? 21:19:27 _pr0t0type_: . is part of the syntax for a cons cell. 21:19:54 The proper search phrase is "dotted pair." 21:19:55 (a . b) means a cons cell with car "a" end cdr "b" 21:20:10 <_pr0t0type_> ah 21:21:22 http://www.scheme.com/tspl4/start.html#g6 look for dotted pair 21:21:29 *Daemmerung* is less cranky post-RTFM 21:26:17 <_pr0t0type_> SharkBrain: that clears up a few thing, thanks 21:26:29 np 21:27:01 <_pr0t0type_> Last question: is there anyway to return more than one atom from a function call? 21:28:19 <_pr0t0type_> guess not... 21:29:05 (values ...) 21:29:06 Why do you say "guess not..."? Do you assume that someone else is always here to answer the question, such that no answer can correctly be taken as "no"? 21:29:19 If so, you've gravely misunderstood the medium. 21:29:25 I don't think he's ready for `values'. 21:29:28 r5rs values 21:29:29 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_572 21:29:30 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yoye9g 21:29:31 good point 21:29:41 I revise my answer to "no" 21:29:57 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:29:58 I thought he was just saying "guess not" because few languages do 21:30:03 I would say "mu" 21:30:40 whoah, our names have the same number of letters 21:30:45 brothers! 21:30:52 Lung brothers1 21:30:57 er, ! 21:31:06 <_pr0t0type_> SharkBrain: you were right in what I mean 21:31:11 *SharkBrain* is Lung brothers2 21:32:04 _pr0t0type_: generally speaking if you want to return more than one object/value/whatevs from a function, why not return a list? 21:32:44 SharkBrain: http://www.achewood.com/index.php?date=03062003 21:32:56 achewood? nerd! 21:33:05 c'est moi 21:33:56 -!- davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:34:11 <_pr0t0type_> SharkBrain: Yes, I was thinking of the same thing; all I would need to do then is get the car of the combination (assuming that the list is composed of atoms). But then I thought, is there a way to return atoms. It was just a curiosity. 21:35:05 do other people use 'atom' for value? am I the weird one? 21:36:11 Isn't an atom anything that is not a cons cell? 21:37:13 And also not the empty list. 21:37:34 aack` [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 21:37:37 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:43 huh, guess I'm the weird on 21:37:44 e 21:38:02 *SharkBrain* is having flashbacks to the little schemer 21:38:09 Daemmerung: the empty list is an atom. 21:38:55 what about vector? 21:39:24 aack`` [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 21:40:39 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 21:40:41 NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-54-82-251-108-182.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:06 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-37-82-253-22-139.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:35 In emacs lisp it is an atom. 21:41:54 I guess in other lisps it is also. 21:41:59 atom? is the inverse of pair? according to an internet book 21:42:12 -!- aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:42:12 -!- aack` [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:18 kuribas: #scheme? 21:42:29 and an '() is not a pair 21:42:32 kuribas: The Li'l Schemer disagrees with you. Also, you smell bad. 21:42:45 because I mentioned scheme :) 21:42:52 elisp, I mean... 21:43:26 Daemmerung: What does the Little Schemer say? 21:43:58 It says that your mother wears army boots. On the very first page. In boldface. 21:44:15 *Daemmerung* heads for the bookshelf 21:44:23 I wish I had my copy here... 21:44:29 I'm not even sure where it is 21:44:31 Daemmerung: Really? I should have that book... 21:44:44 Page 5 - "Is it true that this is an atom? ()" "No, because () is just a list." 21:44:45 kuribas: you're famous, at least your mother is 21:45:37 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 21:47:15 In any case, ATOM is a term from LISP, it isn't usually used in scheme. 21:47:23 _pr0t0type_: are you reading the little schemer? 21:47:49 <_pr0t0type_> yes, as well as the online ebook... I think is scip or something. 21:47:54 -!- aack`` [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:58 aack`` [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 21:48:03 sicp 21:48:58 <_pr0t0type_> SharkBrain: and the seasoned schemer is on the table as well, but I plan on finishing the little schemer, naturally, before touching that latter book. 21:53:06 I <3 the little/seasoned/reasoned schemer 21:53:26 -!- aack`` [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:53:30 I haven't gotten very far in sicp though 21:55:02 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: melba] 21:55:58 <_pr0t0type_> nice 21:55:59 one drawback with sicp, is all the math related content 21:56:06 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@32.169.67.37] has joined #scheme 21:56:35 the math dependencie is a bit much for many poeple 21:56:48 dependency even.. 21:56:55 am I getting congratulated for not getting very far in a book? (+ 50 point) 21:57:11 <_pr0t0type_> morphir: the math is not too exhaustive though. Like for instance, the square root problem. It doesn't mention the Newton-Rhapson method, although thats intrinsically what they're using in the example. 21:58:04 <_pr0t0type_> SharkBrain: I meant, that you read the little book. Sometimes, the material there can seem a bit too cartoony though. 21:59:19 I keep getting distracted while reading SICP, last time I watched the Berkley lecture where he goes over the metacircular interpreter I ended up writing a crappy lisp in js 22:02:56 <_pr0t0type_> This is my first foray into functional languages. Coming from a C/C++ background, I must admit this paradigm seems a bit crazy. 22:03:15 SICP isn't about scheme, it's about programming. If you have read all of SICP, you'll know a lot about programming. 22:04:06 _pr0t0type_: it's seems crazy because you are not used to it. 22:05:27 <_pr0t0type_> All the cons'in, and cdr'in, and car'in! haha. It's certainly interesting though, just a bit of a learning curve. 22:09:14 Well, the idea of functional programming is to limit side effects, so it is easier to reason about code. 22:09:59 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:10:10 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-3-197.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:10:23 I find it easier to understand functional code than an imperative code, because in an imperative program you must be aware what the whole program does. 22:10:44 In functional code I can look at some piece of code, and have a basic understanding what it does. 22:13:42 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@2002:126f:4151:9:21e:c2ff:febb:cedd] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:16:02 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-3-197.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 22:19:27 -!- wingo [~wingo@84.Red-81-39-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:21:47 ben_m [~ben@chello084113058207.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 22:24:04 morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has joined #scheme 22:31:09 schmir [~schmir@p54A92021.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:32:34 -!- Morbeo [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:40 Morbeo [myrlochar@91.92.170.132] has joined #scheme 22:46:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:46:46 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-180.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:08 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-180.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 22:47:57 -!- morphir [~morphir@84-52-234.12.3p.ntebredband.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:51:21 letto [~letto@188.26.202.76] has joined #scheme 22:57:11 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A92021.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:35 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:28 nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has joined #scheme 23:15:13 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DCC7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:23:28 -!- sloyd [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:39 I would like for R7RS to contain EQUIV-ISH? 23:33:54 which returns #t if its arguments are more or less equivalent 23:35:12 I'd vote for inclusion of `lengthish', which always returns 7. 23:35:41 "close enough for government work" 23:36:31 sloyd [sloyd@station457.vo3.net] has joined #scheme 23:37:56 KINDA-RANDOM 23:39:14 That's a good enough excuse to link to my favorite Dilbert: http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2001-10-25/ 23:39:36 Which is exactly what I thought about :) 23:39:54 The only dilbert comic I know 23:40:04 So it's my favourite one, too! 23:40:08 this gives a new meaning to MAP-PARTIAL 23:53:36 -!- bweaver [~user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:56:49 davazp [~user@33.Red-88-8-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:57:48 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini]