00:02:18 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:36 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:10:12 -!- Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:20:50 Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 00:23:37 -!- Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:24:05 -!- masm [~masm@bl7-193-96.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:25:51 Leonidas [~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 00:33:40 -!- Summermute [~Summermut@c-68-55-150-29.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 00:36:28 What is a good introductory text for homological algebra? 00:36:46 Oops wrong channel 00:56:20 On what channel do they discuss homological algebra? 00:56:32 #haskell? :) 00:56:44 ah :) 00:56:53 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:57:05 I obviously don't know what homological algebra is :) 00:57:21 I don't either 00:57:24 it sounds mathematical! 00:59:32 I think that is guaranteed :) 01:05:55 -!- likebike [~900fffe3@gateway/web/freenode/x-whyyanwhaazjnocf] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:17:39 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:17:40 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:17:46 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:08 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 01:51:06 jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has joined #scheme 01:55:38 -!- nostrand [~rickard@h-62-207.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #scheme 02:04:22 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #scheme 02:05:01 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:10 meric [~Eric@124-168-145-247.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined 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[~RageOfTho@users-55-134.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:10:54 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 03:11:34 .oO( There are wiggers on s-r-wg1? ) 03:12:11 what's a wigger? 03:13:00 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:06 Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 03:14:15 Checkie [10051@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 03:15:27 Gerald Sussman with bling 03:18:46 -!- yosafbri` [~yosafbrid@adsl-71-142-225-118.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 03:20:55 -!- jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has quit [Quit: return EXIT_SUCCESS;] 03:22:58 *Daemmerung* is glad he wasn't the only one that flinched 03:23:06 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:24:25 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-175-181.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 03:26:20 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-117-79.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 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ago 09:49:56 Hi foof, is wg1 discussing about the new scheme standard? 09:50:06 Belaf: yes 09:51:06 foof: is the discussion publicly readable? I guess it would be interesting :) 09:51:07 This will naturally affect the direction of chibi - I'm likely to make the core chibi language the same as the wg1 standard (which hopefully should be smaller than R5RS). 09:51:38 Belaf: Yes, but there are already over 300 messages and it hasn't been a week since we started. 09:52:10 foof: erm... I'm not sure I've got time to read them all :/ 09:52:23 but if you're curious it's at http://groups.google.com/group/scheme-reports-wg1/ 09:52:35 Sure, thanks. 09:52:35 There's also -wg2, though that isn't as active yet. 09:52:54 is that about the more extended language? 09:52:59 yes 09:53:44 Good to know. 09:57:27 choas [~lars@p5B0DA9C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 10:00:23 foof: so chibi will become a reference implementation of wg1 standard? 10:01:04 possibly 10:01:31 I'm more concerned with actually using chibi, though, so if I'm not happy with the wg1 result I'll just provide some sort of compatibility mode. 10:02:54 One problem with standards is they usually cannot provide "no-compromise" results, by definition. 10:05:22 In my naive view, I feel the single most important feature to include would be a standard way to seamlessly extending the language. 10:05:44 *extend 10:05:52 Well, views differ on that, but what everyone agrees is that we need a module system. 10:06:13 The problem with extending the language is that everyone wants to do so in different ways. 10:06:57 Well, a standard module system is a first step in the right direction, IMHO 10:07:29 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:46 Could you just give an hint about the "different ways"? 10:08:42 Well, some people want reader macros and there's nothing even semi-standardized about that beyond SRFI-10, which has a ton of issues. 10:08:45 mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 10:09:41 Then there are the different low-level macro facilities, which are in some cases incompatible (e.g. syntax-case makes assumptions about the implementation of macros). 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:30 But beyond syntax, what do you want to programmatically extend? 10:10:43 I see. During my playing with chibi I was wondering what would mean, for instance, extending it to handle rationals or complex numbers, and I didn't see a way to do it without modifying the interpreter itself... but maybe I just don't know anough about it. Am I wrong? 10:10:58 I think this is about syntax extensions, yes 10:11:10 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 10:11:49 other examples are support of unicode 10:12:09 With reader/writer extensions for user-defined types you could implement rationals as a library. 10:12:46 Chicken is an example of adding unicode as a library. 10:13:00 Well, that would address my issues, then :) 10:14:35 Would it allow to get the same kind of performances than a native implementation? 10:14:47 -!- leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-3-197.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:05 leppie [~lolcow@dsl-243-3-197.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 10:15:21 it depends, but usually no 10:16:08 Well, that seems a worthwhile goal. 10:17:04 But in general, the idea is that Scheme is flexible enough, and we should build a good enough core on which WG2 can build libraries on which people can build useful applications. 10:17:55 Trying to minimize the drawbacks of growing the language from a minimal kernel, I mean, within the obvious real-life constrains. I bet I'm not saying anything new here :) 10:19:14 Spend too much time playing with the language itself and you never get anything done :) 10:19:33 Looks the story of my life ;-) 10:20:31 So wg2 is meant to be an extension on top of the wg1 core? 10:20:37 yep 10:21:06 Every wg1 program should work out-of-the-box on a wg2 implementation. 10:22:29 I think I'm trying to understand if all of wg2 is meant to be obtained by just extending wg1, without "core changes". 10:22:44 that remains to be seen 10:23:23 For example, it's unlikely that wg1 will specify Unicode (just leaving the character range and semantics unspecified), bu wg2 will probably specify Unicode. 10:23:44 Which is not a change so much as clarification of unspecified behavior. 10:25:58 I don't see it as a problem, as long as wg1 defines enough to let wg2 build unicode on top of that... 10:26:47 I think I need to read a bit of the discussions in the archive you pointed me to, maybe later I'll have more meaningful comments to make :) 10:28:18 I'll be back later. Bye 10:28:31 cya 10:28:48 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:30:00 Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 10:48:14 djanatyn [~djanatyn@pool-74-98-199-53.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 10:50:06 spoke [~msw@75-101-102-192.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #scheme 10:50:38 pjb [~t@238.Red-79-149-135.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:00:10 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 11:11:59 -!- meric [~Eric@203-214-147-25.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: meric] 11:13:51 -!- drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gauss Eleminated] 11:14:41 drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 11:16:01 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:20:13 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #scheme 11:25:44 -!- dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:28:43 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-!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:04:18 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:04:52 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-175-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:06 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-175-181.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:15:09 foof` [~user@FL1-125-198-249-114.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 15:18:09 jewel [~jewel@41.31.160.34] has joined #scheme 15:19:06 -!- foof [~user@FL1-125-198-249-114.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22:48 -!- foof` is now known as foof 15:25:43 alvatar [~alvatar@107.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 15:26:58 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-175-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:35:07 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-175-181.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:39:04 reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:39:43 marcob [~marco@host106-3-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 15:42:50 -!- marcob [~marco@host106-3-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:43:27 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.31.160.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:57:09 -!- meric [~Eric@124-171-63-122.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: meric] 15:57:18 jewel [~jewel@41.29.138.205] has joined #scheme 15:58:57 hi! 15:59:40 I'm a Vim user, but I've decided to give emacs a try, especially now that I'm learning Scheme. Do you know of any good quick introduction to scheme+emacs 16:00:05 ? 16:02:02 nope 16:02:22 -!- annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Quit: annodomini] 16:03:01 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:03:04 well I guess lisp+emacs is also suitable, I just need to know how to plug Gambit, instead of CL or whatever 16:04:21 -!- NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-60-82-254-220-250.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:07:35 "plug"? 16:07:58 I don't particularly integrate emacs with scheme -- I just use emacs to edit my scheme code, but not to run it. 16:08:10 (Well, I do generally have an interactive *scheme* buffer, but I don't use it for much) 16:08:25 when I want to run my program, I just run it from the command line, all at once 16:09:01 avatar, maybe limp (in vim) will be enough for you? 16:09:06 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-175-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:19 MichaelRaskin: nope, I've tried it and don't like it 16:09:26 MichaelRaskin: i'm looking at limp right now but does it do scheme? 16:09:31 alvatar: what's wrong with it? 16:09:34 Edit one shell file 16:09:44 hmm 16:09:47 It wants to run SBCL and pass it the core 16:09:59 there's also http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 16:10:22 Well I'm using another script, but the problem is that I don't get any nice formatting in Vim, which would help me understanding my own code :) 16:10:39 ah 16:10:46 i found an indenter at some point 16:10:55 "setf scheme" is not enough? 16:11:07 = is indenting 16:11:11 == indent line 16:11:21 =[text object] - indent area 16:11:39 yes, it works more or less, but only with chucks of text, not automatically with each line 16:11:46 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-213.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:12:06 well I guess I should try to figure out that, and stay with vim 16:12:21 alvatar, I guess you need ":noremap ==" 16:12:29 Or something like that 16:12:36 I'm surprised, because people here try to make you learn Emacs :P 16:13:02 The evil forces have to be opposed! 16:13:37 I love vim, is just that I thought that I might be limited specially for Scheme 16:13:40 I actually edit generalised text enough time that learning modes pays off for me 16:13:53 you mean emacs modes? 16:13:58 No 16:14:00 I'd hate to have to learn a whole new text editor just to learn a new language 16:14:03 Vim keyboard modes 16:14:06 ok 16:14:25 offby1, I'd love to learn a new text editor for the sake of it 16:14:25 yeah, I know vim pretty well also, I've even translated half of its documentation :) 16:14:41 If only it had a _good_ extension language 16:14:55 Vim script is fine for me. 16:15:03 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:15:17 And the editor should have keyboard modes, of course 16:15:18 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.29.138.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17:05 -!- sphex [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:17:36 sphex [~nobody@modemcable072.42-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 16:18:47 NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-24-82-64-152-232.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:19:56 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-213.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:22:32 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:29:22 jewel [~jewel@41.31.111.233] has joined #scheme 16:32:49 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:07 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 16:38:00 MichaelRaskin: how do you to it to get automatic indentation once you hit enter after an incomplete expression? 16:38:36 I don't do it 16:38:42 But == should still work 16:41:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.31.111.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:42:00 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:20 -!- masm [~masm@bl7-195-42.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:09:16 annodomini [~lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:09:16 -!- annodomini [~lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:09:16 annodomini [~lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 17:10:18 jewel [~jewel@41.30.34.70] has joined #scheme 17:10:24 jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has joined #scheme 17:12:44 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:13:54 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 17:16:51 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:16:55 hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 17:16:55 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@107.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:55 alvatar [~alvatar@107.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:22:46 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:23:06 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 17:24:33 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 17:25:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.30.34.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:25:24 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:26:19 meric [~Eric@124-171-63-122.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 17:29:08 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 17:29:23 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:46:10 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 17:50:09 marcob [~marco@host106-3-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 17:54:34 TR2N [email@89-180-214-3.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 18:06:17 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:06:39 karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #scheme 18:11:39 Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 18:17:37 -!- marcob [~marco@host106-3-dynamic.53-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #scheme 18:26:14 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:32:54 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #scheme 18:36:42 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-136.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:26 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 18:51:15 davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:58:10 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DA9C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:56 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 19:01:01 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:06:40 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 19:07:44 masm [~masm@bl7-195-42.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 19:08:27 -!- fractalis [~fractalis@cpe-98-27-162-52.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:20 dsmith [~dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:10:10 dfeuer [~dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 19:14:21 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:17:27 -!- hiyuh [~hiyuh@KD124214245222.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: |_ e /\ \/ i |/| G] 19:24:48 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:41 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-154-7.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:31:07 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:35 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5BA16.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 19:33:16 errordeveloper [~errordeve@host86-129-186-136.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 19:33:18 -!- jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has quit [Quit: return EXIT_SUCCESS;] 19:33:19 hi 19:34:10 can someone give a little hint on how to read input from a serial port AND use that as command input ? 19:35:13 i got a micro-controller outputing basic (so far) things like (+ 1 2 3) and i want execute that in scheme .. 19:35:57 (eval (read))? 19:36:38 next she'll suggest you print the result 19:37:04 ... and then that you write a loop to do those things over and over ... 19:37:27 Does the microcontroller support loops though 19:38:23 use strings! 19:39:23 to quote a good friend of mine: 19:39:24 > (loop (print (eval (read)))) 19:39:25 (+ 1 1) 19:39:27 2 19:40:40 offby1: that sounds heretical 19:41:03 to quote a good friend of mine: 19:41:08 '(a good friend of mine) 19:41:10 *offby1* slaps thigh 19:41:13 hah. 19:41:21 betcha didn't see that coming. 19:41:25 ok ..i thought it would be something like that :)) 19:42:18 errordeveloper: reading from a serial port would involve implementation specific API. Until you tell us what implementation you use (and I personnaly don't know any implementation specific stuff really), we can only tell you to read the documentation of your implementation. 19:42:32 just open /dev/ttyS0! :P 19:42:41 For example. 19:43:39 elly: exactly .. 19:46:09 You may have to set the speed, bits, parity, handshake, etc, for a serial port... 19:46:35 suddenly you will find yourself in the magical wonderland that is ioctl() :P 19:50:11 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:24 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@107.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:00 letto [~letto@188.26.203.154] has joined #scheme 20:03:33 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #scheme 20:03:46 -!- Narrenschiff [~ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [Quit: Narrenschiff] 20:10:21 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:17:36 Does scheme support ncurses? 20:18:25 Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:18:42 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:19:25 djanatyn: There's no answer to that question. You might try: "Does implementation support ncurses?" or "Is there a Scheme implementation that supports ncurses?". 20:19:49 Ah. 20:22:48 bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:23:04 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:23:57 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:24:53 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:25:48 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:25:54 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:26:30 jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has joined #scheme 20:39:06 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:41:10 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:42:04 kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 20:43:18 simple way to setup serial port is to call a external prg like stty 20:45:28 -!- karme [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-171-082.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #scheme 21:00:30 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:01:09 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-196.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:02:04 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-123-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:31 -!- jengle [~jengle@69.0.36.99] has quit [Quit: return EXIT_SUCCESS;] 21:05:05 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:05:56 Money line so far in the WG1 archive: "It is my understanding, but not knowledge, that Aaron W. Hsu is our chair." --Tom Lord 21:06:12 heh 21:06:15 Nice one 21:11:55 A lot of people evidently lost the welcome message to spam filters. 21:12:30 Any idea why? 21:17:04 jcowan, can I sit on him? 21:18:05 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:22:48 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:23:25 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-228-125.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:43 Fare: do you frequent #tunes? 21:28:03 -!- letto [~letto@188.26.203.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:50 letto [~letto@188.26.203.154] has joined #scheme 21:29:58 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:31:24 *offby1* whistles occasionally, but admits that's not quite the same 21:31:50 -!- letto [~letto@188.26.203.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:30 letto [~letto@188.26.203.154] has joined #scheme 21:33:54 adu: I'm the founder 21:34:44 oooo, my memory is good then :) 21:35:35 Fare: so how goes the ever-growing quest to re-define all of computing? 21:38:48 slowly 21:38:52 trying to redefine myself 21:39:10 -!- infralite is now known as makmanalp 21:52:23 timj [~timj@e176210241.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 21:56:25 -!- letto [~letto@188.26.203.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:00 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:33 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 22:12:04 Pinchyfingers [~tommy@173.62.244.19] has joined #scheme 22:21:31 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #scheme 22:26:09 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:30:19 letto [~letto@188.26.204.203] has joined #scheme 22:33:57 -!- Pinchyfingers [~tommy@173.62.244.19] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:34:10 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-75-20-228-125.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 22:37:01 Pinchyfingers [~tommy@173.62.244.19] has joined #scheme 22:38:09 josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-189-108-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #scheme 22:40:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:41:33 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:41:57 schmir [~schmir@p54A90298.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:42:29 Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 22:46:56 -!- Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 22:47:16 Sergio` [~Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 22:47:42 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 22:48:51 pestario [~pestario@ool-43522f54.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 22:49:23 so do all of schemers/lispers use emacs? 22:50:25 alternatively, is it easier to pick up emacs if you are a schemer/lisper than if you are not? 22:50:26 Fare: I've started my own quest as well: http://drosera.co.cc/index.xhtml 22:50:43 pestario: the majority of them I'd say yes. 22:51:05 pestario: as a mere user, knowing lisp doesn't help in learning emacs. 22:51:24 -!- schmir [~schmir@p54A90298.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:51:28 pestario: however, as a power user, it does, since emacs scripts are written in emacs lisp. 22:51:33 pjb: i understand... but at the moment, i find emacs bindings to be un-intuitive 22:51:35 *ducks* 22:51:45 But there's a lot of customization that can be done without writing a single lisp form. 22:51:52 -!- makmanalp [~legato@constant.inople.net] has left #scheme 22:51:54 pestario: there's a logic to it. 22:52:13 pestario: get yourself an emacs cheat sheet. 22:52:23 I have also been wondering about emacs 22:52:41 i have gone through the emacs tutorial a few times 22:52:52 I really like vim, but the more interested I get in scheme, the more I start to onder if I should give emacs another shot. 22:53:56 the way i see it, vim is easier when working on code 22:54:14 emacs seems suitable for editing papers/stories 22:54:23 since it works with structured text 22:54:31 like paragraphs, sentences, etc 22:54:38 vim is awful when it comes to any kind of word processing. 22:54:39 pestario: far from it, from my POV. 22:54:43 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #scheme 22:55:03 pestario: try: http://www.stevenchan.us/publications/emacs 22:55:25 In any case, for s-exp editing, be sure to use paredit-mode. 22:56:17 -!- kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:56:41 thats a cool cheatsheet 22:56:44 thanks 22:57:22 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-125-29.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:57:45 aside from editing documents, is there any overwhelming reason that I should learn emacs? 22:58:24 Pinchyfingers: reading news? editing mails? spreadsheets? databases? games? web? 22:58:36 all in one solution, eh? 22:59:10 Yes. And since it runs on a lot of OS, that makes a unified user interface. 23:00:30 Basically, I use emacs for everything (including usual web). I only have a Firefox open for javascript and other web pages heavy on graphics. 23:00:43 yeah, I always think that I can just do things from with a combo of vim and other unix utilities, that emacs users do from just emacs, but there are a lot of times that I'm not using linux. 23:00:44 (of course, irc goes thru emacs). 23:00:51 -!- letto [~letto@188.26.204.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:12 wow.. cool stuff pjb 23:05:41 emms is my music player. 23:05:48 kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 23:07:53 The lisp machine bubble burst and left emacs 23:08:21 Yep. 23:08:30 The blues had a baby and they named it "Rock and Roll". 23:08:49 the "brothers" :-) 23:09:22 I suppose I can get emacs to mimic anything that I really like in vim. 23:09:39 Pinchyfingers: er, not really. 23:09:47 no? 23:10:02 Vim has a "repeat" command that's as far as I know impossible for emacs to exactly duplicate 23:10:22 offby1, I now have an image of baby making between Greenblatt and Noftsker 23:10:41 yeah, because there isn't multiple modes 23:11:16 Pinchyfingers: I forget the details. 23:11:36 Pinchyfingers: on the other hand, if you're used to vi, and large men with guns force you to use emacs, there are ways to lessen the shock 23:11:38 it feels so simple to highlight a few lines and swith to command mode and type something like :s/^ 23:11:49 s/^/;; 23:11:58 haha 23:12:20 I suppose I can get emacs to mimic anything that I really like in vim. 23:12:24 M-x term vim 23:12:49 There are a lot of hooks in emacs, so I can't imagine an impossibility to emulate any feature of vim. Even if you need to patch the C sources of emacs for that... 23:12:50 run vim inside emacs? 23:14:01 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-31-12-26.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:16 -!- drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:14:24 this conversation reminds me so much of a thought i recently i have had. See, i took Spanish as my foreign language in high school thinking it will be practical since it is a second language. Never giving it a second thought. I recently realized while working on a crossword puzzle that taking Latin instead of Spanish would have done wonders for my vocabulary. 23:15:20 so which editor does wonders for programming skill? 23:15:33 And having learned latin, you would be able to learn Spanish, Portuguese, French, and Italian easily. 23:15:43 Pinchyfingers: emacs. 23:15:47 i feel vim is like taking the spanish course and latin like emacs 23:16:05 If you get the habit of programming it, using emacs lisp. 23:16:21 If that's the case then sign me up. 23:16:25 Have you really learned Latin before? It's more like teco. 23:17:06 metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:17:20 Using/programming emacs is like reading sicp. 23:17:48 I believe you, but can you give me an example? 23:17:49 pjb: how so? 23:18:12 In the mind widening experience. 23:18:30 mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 23:18:35 that's a bit of a stretch i think 23:19:01 not that i claim to know emacs 23:19:03 Just make sure all your variables have different names 23:19:38 hey pjb, thanks for the post on comp.lang.scheme a couple days ago about using truth tables to form boolean expressions 23:19:53 Well, for one thing emacs programming is done in lisp. But the structure of the application opens horizons on any other kind of applications, not only on editors. The idea of linking a function no any input event (key bindings) and that you can change that dynamically by programming from inside the application (whatver it's kind), it's such a generic and powerful way of designing application! 23:20:03 pestario: I agree with you. Nowadays English and Latin are really the basic languages. 23:20:05 Pinchyfingers: you're welcome! 23:20:32 pjb, what 23:20:42 elisp isn't even tail recursive, how can it be generic and powerful 23:22:00 Jafet, elisp lacks sane scoping rules. What tail recursion do you talk about? 23:22:03 Jafet: it's Turing-equivalent, how can it not be generic and powerful? 23:22:04 -!- masm [~masm@bl7-195-42.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:36 Fare, BF is turing-equivalent too.. 23:22:49 *sladegen* enjoys programming in rule 110. 23:23:10 The technical details don't really matter. And you can always implement in emacs lisp a compiler for your favorite languages targetting the emacs byte code. 23:23:50 badass 23:25:01 I'm glad MIT Scheme uses Scheme as an extension language of Edwin. 23:26:15 This conversation has strongly swayed my view of vim and emacs 23:26:33 I used to think that vim was really easy to use and all I would ever need 23:26:57 Both are correct 23:27:09 And Vim script has lexical scoping 23:27:59 -!- offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:28:46 offby1 [~user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 23:28:46 -!- josephholsten [~josephhol@ip70-189-108-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: josephholsten] 23:29:32 MichaelRaskin, uh, doesn't BF work with a finite memory? 23:29:41 HQ9+T is Turing-equivalent. 23:29:51 Ideal BF in vacuum has infinite fields 23:31:16 I like HQ9+T. The T operator is specified to make the language Turing-equivalent, but it is not specified HOW. 23:31:46 it could be a Perl interpreter, or a BF interpreter, for all we know. But it does make the language Turing-equivalent. 23:33:14 -!- kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:33:34 kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 23:35:36 -!- Jafet [~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:36:48 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Quit: melba] 23:37:21 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:51 devslashnull [~nope@dyn-78.greentreefrog.net.au] has joined #scheme 23:42:45 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-159.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:51:28 foof: What does Chibi use as its low-level macro system?