00:03:29 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:37 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:07:47 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-36-82-251-40-245.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 00:12:05 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 00:14:00 -!- Mr-Cat [~Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:14:27 dharmatech [~dharmatec@206.55.180.51] has joined #scheme 00:15:58 -!- masm [~masm@bl5-104-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:16:24 -!- sstrickl [~sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 00:19:41 foof, I was messin around with an R6RS port of foof-loop recently. rotty has one in his spells: http://github.com/rotty/spells 00:20:28 I thought I remember somebody sayin that an R6RS port would be messy but it looks like he's using the stock code via include and it passes riastradh's test suite. 00:23:18 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.138] has joined #scheme 00:25:30 I don't recall saying foof-loop would be hard to port - it should be straightforward. 00:25:42 It's my match macro that breaks because of the stupid _ change. 00:28:26 -!- nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:54 So who's on WG 1 & 2? 00:33:02 foof: well, loopy-loop is also in chicken 4, so we have like 4 loop macros ... :P 00:34:22 *mejja* plucks a chicken 00:34:47 loopy-loop shouldn't have been ported 00:35:36 fast-loop and foof-loop have compatible syntax, but are extended in different ways 00:40:42 foof: Off-topic, but have you ever looked up "foof" on UrbanDictionary, by chance? :-) 00:41:57 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:42:17 well that's unfortunate... 00:44:58 foof, Just curious, did you ever consider ERR5RS for Chibi? Or did you reject it for some reason? I mean, I know how you feel about R6RS. :-) But ERR5RS seems pretty lean. 00:45:06 FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-247.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 00:45:06 http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/FOOF 00:45:30 dharmatech: I like what I've seen of ERR5RS. 00:46:54 Clinger proposed ERR5RS, anticipating that alot of R5RSers would reject R6RS, but might still want to adopt pieces ala carte. Since that time a few implementations have appeared, each with new module systems; Chibi, Jazz, Chicken 4.0. But none with with ERR5RS. 00:47:46 I naturally chose what I thought was the best possible module system for Chibi :) 00:47:56 It's too bad... If there were implementations of ERR5RS along with R6RS, it would be possible to write to the least common denominator and target them all. 00:48:12 foof, The "It's too bad..." was not directed at you. :-) 00:48:13 But unless it's a hideous mess, Chibi will switch to the R7RS module system. 00:48:16 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:40 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 00:49:01 -!- RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-42-60.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:49:42 The only ERR5RS implementation is Larceny. :-) 00:51:13 chibi is fun 00:53:25 foof, Is Chibi gonna ship with Irregex and fmt at some point? 00:54:24 not likely, but there will be a "chibi-install chibi.irregex" and "chibi-install chibi.fmt" most likely in the next release 00:54:37 Aha 00:55:23 foof: re loopy-loop, that is what I thought 00:56:30 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:57:27 arcfide: You want to keep transcript-on/off? 00:57:46 I wonder why Gambit still doesn't ship with an official module system. :-) 00:58:09 The unnoffficial ones are black hole and Jazz. 01:01:05 Gambit's BDFL probably doesn't want to commit to anything nonstandard. He's on the Scheme7 steering committee, so perhaps that'll change before the decade ends. 01:01:11 -!- Daemmeru` is now known as Daemmerung 01:01:11 gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.249.11] has joined #scheme 01:02:32 Daemmerung, That makes sense. 01:02:51 Those darn academics always take their time. :-) 01:06:29 foof, Is chibi structured such that a native code compiler could be a part of it some day or would that be awkward given the architecture of it. 01:14:19 dharmatech: working on a JIT compiler 01:14:27 bbl 01:14:31 -!- foof [~user@FLH1Aep019.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:14:41 -!- kuribas [kristof@d54C4377F.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:18:49 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:20:43 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:22:41 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:04 nutmegmagi [~swalters@pool-71-101-51-208.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:25:39 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:12 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 01:35:24 -!- NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-22-82-249-125-175.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:24 -!- fractalis [~fractalis@cpe-98-27-162-52.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:34 -!- FunkyDrummer [~RageOfTho@users-55-247.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:35:39 NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-22-82-249-125-175.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 01:35:40 fractalis [~fractalis@cpe-98-27-162-52.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:36:00 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:40:02 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 01:47:00 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:47:17 -!- dharmatech [~dharmatec@206.55.180.51] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:50:42 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:54 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-50-226-58.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57:05 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:59:36 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 02:01:31 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:06 FiveLemon [~945701ac@gateway/web/freenode/x-eohyzgrgrobagsow] has joined #scheme 02:08:31 Prael [~alamar@206.214.117.131] has joined #scheme 02:11:03 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-67-78-79-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 02:15:36 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:10 elly: the sgl code that Daemmerung refers to does just that -- it creates a small C program and runs it to pull out some values, then grabs them and uses them at the syntax level, which means that none of that is left at runtime. 02:18:51 It's not brute force or ugly in any way that I see -- it's just the easiest way to get the meaning of random C values without implementing a C compiler yourself. 02:19:34 For example, it can give you values of constants whether they're defined as toplevel constants or as preprocessor definitions. 02:19:59 At some point I intend to make a library that will make doing all of that easy without doing the necessary work yourself. 02:20:14 (That's something that Fare has been asking for a while, too.) 02:25:32 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:27:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:28:34 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-50-226-58.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:28:56 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:30:23 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-96-124.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:36:51 -!- mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:22 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@pool-71-101-51-208.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:37:58 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:38:36 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:40:19 eli: I got the impression that elly wanted manifest constants and enums, not host values such as `sizeof GLuint'. (Though of course the gl-uint-size calculation approach would work if you were willing to enumerate every #define that you wanted to import.) 02:41:17 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 02:41:29 Or are you referring to something other than make-gl-info? 02:42:51 I'd like to see swig's PLT support updated to embrace the modern PLT FFI. Not that I'm volunteering. 02:54:11 jonrafkind [~jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:57:18 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:37 foof [~user@isa7-dhcp-116-239.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 03:01:05 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-175.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 03:07:33 nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has joined #scheme 03:18:34 Daemmerung: Yes I know -- but once you face the fact that you can do it all with compiling and running some throwaway C code just to some values -- any kind of values, then things are simple. 03:19:49 This actually came up in one of the circus "discussions" on the r6rs list, when someone (I don't remember who) found it surprisng that all of that can be done in a macro. 03:20:02 And re swig -- I completely agree. 03:32:53 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:33:03 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #scheme 03:42:22 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.138] has joined #scheme 03:51:38 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 03:54:40 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:09 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 04:00:42 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:00:46 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:03:50 -!- nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has left #scheme 04:07:23 saccade_ [~saccade@c-66-31-40-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:09:42 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:10:35 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:16:53 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:19:29 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 04:20:11 -!- Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:15 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:28:29 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:29:53 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:35:25 -!- luz [~davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 04:37:29 Mr_Awesome [~eric@c-98-212-139-181.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:39:24 *foof* can't wait for the ritual case-sensitivity debate on the scheme working groups lists 04:41:01 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:30 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43:42 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 04:44:40 arcfide: ping 04:45:06 foof: how does it usually go/ 04:45:07 *? 04:45:07 foof: Aye? 04:48:52 elly: (let debate () (blah!) (sleep (random)) (debate)) 04:48:55 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 04:49:15 (define blah! (begin (yak) (yak) (yakety) (yak))) 04:49:35 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:49:55 I thought that all the case-insensitive recidivists were only on WG1. 04:51:06 (define soundtrack (begin (yakety) (sax))) 04:51:07 *Daemmerung* doesn't look back, yakety-yak 04:52:51 *offby1* don't get no spending cash 04:54:05 Daemmerung: If WG1 is case-sensitive, WG2 has to be as well. 04:54:07 Hey now.... 04:54:21 I'm a case-insensitive sort of guy, at heart. 04:55:27 foof: No, I was suggesting that WG1 would revert to case-insensitive. 04:55:57 -!- gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.249.11] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:55:57 Me, I'm a case-sensitive new-age guy. 04:56:07 (or a cSNAG) 04:56:11 Errr, right, that's what I meant to type. Whatever WG1 decides, WG2 has to be compatible. 04:57:51 *offby1* slaps Daemmerung upside the haid 04:58:07 Owwwww... mah haid 04:58:15 *elly* is incredibly tired of botnet attacks 04:59:00 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:59:57 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 05:01:12 -!- jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Quit: jeapostrophe] 05:04:54 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-68-55-225-191.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:05:08 -!- ixmatus [~ixmatus@ip68-8-228-224.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #scheme 05:09:18 elly: Are there attacks going on here that I'm not aware of? 05:09:35 no 05:09:39 they're on a different network 05:09:46 one without the sense to run bopm, even 05:11:26 .oO("bop 'em"? As in, http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Bunny_Foo_Foo ? ) 05:12:29 no - blitzed open proxy monitor 05:12:47 it's a bot that detects open proxies and removes them from an IRC network automatically 05:13:26 that'd be groovy if I knew what an open proxy was 05:13:45 MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has joined #scheme 05:14:09 a proxy that will forward a connection from anyone to anywhere 05:14:14 they are great annoyances 05:15:09 ok 05:15:58 It's like an open mail relay, except for relaying TCP connections instead of emails. 05:21:19 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-68-55-225-191.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #scheme 05:30:25 18VAACU5T [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:30:43 -!- 18VAACU5T is now known as bipt 05:52:52 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 05:52:55 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #scheme 05:55:05 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has 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has joined #scheme 11:22:09 *offby1* is slowly learning to use "curry" instead of "lambda" 11:22:41 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:23:23 *XTL* is sticking to bit-fiddling 11:24:03 *mario-goulart* recommends chicken for trying curry 11:25:52 .oO(Looks like ther iss a tool called lamb...) 11:27:56 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 11:28:46 *mejja* is the sole member of WG3 11:29:31 mejja: sgml? 11:29:35 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #scheme 11:30:29 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Client Quit] 11:30:46 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #scheme 11:31:26 please... 11:32:38 Curry Workgroup Three: Northeastern Indian Poultry Recipes 11:35:19 nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:39:30 -!- nutmegmagi [~swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45:05 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 11:45:19 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:06 MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-201.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 11:46:09 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:18 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-78-25-217.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 11:48:32 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #scheme 11:49:48 hi! 11:50:09 anyone here could recommend me a good resource for learning about continuations? 11:50:23 heh 11:50:26 not I 11:50:48 SICP is probably the best thing I came across, but even after reading that, I'm not terribly clear 11:52:50 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-201.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:53:41 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 11:53:57 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:58:51 alvatar: here perhaps http://community.schemewiki.org/?category-learning-scheme under "Intermediates". 11:59:41 ulsou http://library.readscheme.org/page6.html 12:00:29 I find continuations the easiest to understand via Continuation Passing Style. Also I found http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~boucherd/mslug/meetings/20041020/minutes-en.html illuminating, even though it is not strictly about CPS. 12:00:31 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/fj4af 12:02:08 thank you :) 12:02:33 incubot: google me a clueoidation. 12:02:37 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22define%3ade%20facto%22 12:27:29 automejja [~edwin@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 12:28:04 -!- automejja [~edwin@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:15 -!- mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 12:29:24 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@100.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:29:26 alvatar_ [~alvatar@161.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 12:36:04 jeapostrophe [~jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 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[~itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe27f900-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 15:54:31 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:54:33 reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:54:33 ineiros [~itniemin@dsl-hkibrasgw1-fe27f900-103.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #scheme 15:55:59 nowhereman [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 16:06:47 kuatto [~kuatto@c-75-72-177-136.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:06:58 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 16:09:03 alvatar [~alvatar@161.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:11:52 -!- kuatto [~kuatto@c-75-72-177-136.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:22:07 -!- langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:23:47 kuatto [~kuatto@c-75-72-177-136.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:23:47 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@161.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:54 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:42 alvatar [~alvatar@161.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:29:59 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 16:31:10 Prael [~Alamar@208.79.95.74] has joined #scheme 16:34:00 Narrenschiff [~ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 16:34:58 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:54 -!- bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:38:47 -!- Len_ [~Len@87.70.252.116] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:39:00 Len_ [~Len@87.70.252.116] has joined #scheme 16:39:31 -!- FiveLemon [~945701ac@gateway/web/freenode/x-eohyzgrgrobagsow] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:40:37 -!- Len_ [~Len@87.70.252.116] has quit [Client Quit] 16:41:36 The last chapter of /The Little Schemer/ and then /The Seasoned Schemer/ have quite a bit of continuation coverage. SICP discusses continuation procedures only briefly in 4.3.3. The only paper on readscheme.org that I'd recommend to alvatar is "Call with Current Contination Patterns" at http://repository.readscheme.org/ftp/papers/PLoP2001_dferguson0_1.pdf. 16:42:26 I agree that understanding CPS is a good way to approach it, too. I finially grokked CPS via an early edition of EOPL. 16:42:42 Len_ [~Len@87.70.252.116] has joined #scheme 16:48:05 masm [~masm@bl10-244-206.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 16:56:46 Pinchyfingers [~tommy@173.62.244.19] has joined #scheme 16:57:44 I am working thorough HtDP and it is great, but I am dying for an alternative to DrScheme, because my computer is underpowered. 17:00:17 Pinchyfingers: Emacs is a nice one. 17:01:05 Is it possible to just use mzscheme? Or will all of the language packs, etc. not work? 17:08:32 -!- hkBst_ [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:17 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:13:56 Well, I've looked at MrEd. I think I am stuck watching DrScheme cause my computer to melt down. 17:13:57 -!- alvatar [~alvatar@161.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:50 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:59 Pinchyfingers: I'm using MIT Scheme and loving it. It's very similar to Emacs, but tailored for Scheme programming. 17:15:11 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:15:13 Yeah, I use before. I like it too. 17:15:33 I am working through HtDP and it relies on some DrScheme specific features. 17:15:49 I am trying to figure out how to get them withouth running DrScheme. 17:16:06 Any ideas? 17:16:25 It depends on the complexity of those specifics, I guess. 17:17:44 Well, your need to load some libraries for graphical stuff. 17:18:04 And there is modified language sets, depending on what part of the book your in. 17:18:42 I'd like to be able to edit in VIM and then just run from the command line, which I thought would happen with mzscheme or MrEd. 17:19:00 -!- kuatto [~kuatto@c-75-72-177-136.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:19:06 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:09 you could create a VIM macro for that purpose. 17:19:12 Maybe I just need a faster computer and more memory. 17:19:38 alvatar [~alvatar@161.126.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 17:19:40 I'm glad I can do SICP in MIT Scheme. 17:20:20 That would be great, but I think the code depends on the DrScheme environment, so I'd still have to watch my computer come to a halt. 17:20:44 JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-236-233-23.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:21:11 Pinchyfingers: out of curiosity, what's your hardware config? 17:21:24 Pentium 4, 128MB 17:21:37 NEED MORE RAM! 17:21:37 Ah, the memory. 17:21:39 128 MB of memory is short. 17:21:52 tell me about it. 17:21:58 You will end up having a lot of swapping. 17:22:41 I run DrScheme in a Pentium 3 700MHz in not much fuss. But it has 768MB of RAM. 17:22:44 I was going to upgrade it recently, but I decided to just suck it up until I get a new computer. 17:22:55 Pinchyfingers: I think you need more RAM to work confortably. 17:23:04 Absolutely. 17:23:14 I am suffocating. 17:23:34 I guess it's not DrScheme's fault. 17:24:01 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:24:06 I guess you'd go swapping as soon as the graphics mode starts in modern OSs. 17:24:08 I just have to decide whether to upgrade my RAM or wait a couple months until I can afford something new. 17:24:09 DrScheme sure is heavy and bloated. 17:24:12 -!- sysop_fb [~bleh@80.255.39.35] has quit [] 17:24:29 Well, I run openbox, so the graphics are pretty lightweight. 17:24:38 -!- mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:24:45 Windows makes my computer implode. 17:24:50 Ah, ok. :-) 17:25:52 I am using to just finding a lightweight alternative to everything, I'm a little disappointed there is no alternative for DrScheme. 17:26:27 I guess I'll just finish HtDP as fast as possible so I can move on to mit-scheme in SICP. 17:27:40 -!- reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:56 What I like about MIT Scheme is how well Scheme is integrated with the IDE. It just feels so good to code with it. 17:28:36 And it's lighter and faster than DrScheme. It just doesn't have as many libs. 17:28:45 It is cool. I worked throught the first three chapter of SICP about a year ago. That was the first time I really looked at Emacs 17:29:31 However, when I had to start working on other things and I didn't have time for SICP, I went back to VIM and remembered how much more I liked it. 17:29:36 I had a negative feeling about Emacs until I started using MIT Scheme. 17:30:02 VI(M) is nice too. A different philosophy. 17:30:04 When I use MIT Scheme again I'll probably use vim and the shell. 17:30:15 I had a negative feeling about life until I started using Emacs. 17:30:18 Foofie [~innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 17:30:25 heh 17:30:33 Emacs is really cool because you have such a supportive environment to work in. 17:31:21 kuatto [~kuatto@c-75-72-177-136.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:31:32 I agree. 17:31:33 VIM seems to fit my brain better though, and I just complement it with GNU screen/terminal to make up for its slimness. 17:32:00 I like to use VI to code C in FreeBSD console. 17:32:21 You have a Mac? 17:32:29 A PC. 17:33:06 -!- Fufie [~innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:33:25 Oh, you run FreeBSD then. 17:33:35 FreeBSD/Windows XP 17:34:25 Cool. 17:35:02 I used FreeBSD for a couple of weeks, but I went back to ArchLinux, which is in someways very similar. 17:35:42 How far along are you in SICP? 17:36:23 What I like about FreeBSD is that it is light, boots to the console in a few seconds, the man pages are quite informative, it is not generally bloated, and has a huge ports collection ready to be installed by a simple command. 17:37:48 I learned Scheme from another book. But SICP is really an amazing book about computer science. I'm in chapter two. 17:37:48 The users are obnoxious and it abuses /usr/local 17:38:00 hehe 17:38:10 I second the nice manpages, though 17:38:29 Also, web versions, which is nice when you're away from real os's 17:38:54 I like the rc.conf, which is partially why I use Arch. 17:40:00 SICP is great, I can't wait to get back into it. 17:40:49 I should do that, too. But sadly it's pretty far down on the list now 17:40:50 I stopped because I was waking up at 5am to study for an hour or so before work, and eventually I was too tired and stopped waking up. 17:41:51 Time to watch DrScheme torture my measly RAM! 17:42:17 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 17:42:27 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@24.130.33.243] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:43:54 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:04 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:44:09 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #scheme 17:49:21 Pinchyfingers: try going to Edit.Preferences.Tools and disabling inessential tools. You could also try using mzscheme, or mred -z if the HtDP exercises need graphical things. 17:52:27 Thanks. I've been playing around with mred trying to get it to work. 17:52:55 mred -z filename.scm ?? 17:53:40 Ah! 17:53:43 Hold on a second. 17:55:33 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 17:55:36 f'n A. Thank You! 17:56:12 I was trying mred -e mred -f, how does MrEd know to load the appropriate language pack? 17:56:23 Pinchyfingers: which OS are you on? 17:56:31 ArchLinux 17:56:43 And which version of PLT? 17:58:14 MzScheme v4.2.3 [3m] 17:58:39 Pinchyfingers: In this case, using the `mred-text' executable would probably be easier than `mred'. 17:59:25 That's just for running code though, not for editing files. You could edit files in any editor you want as long as the files have no non-textual objects. 17:59:44 so I can edit in vim, use mred-text for an interpreter, and run files with mred -z ? 18:00:00 This is making me so much happier. 18:00:04 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:00:27 As for the contents of the file -- you could just create a few template files in drscheme -- with the right teachpacks etc, then in your text editor you'll see a prefix in the file which is where the language & teachpacks are specified. 18:00:56 You could also edit that, once you know where the teachpacks are specified there. (IIRC, it should be straightforward.) 18:01:16 There's some other boolean flags etc, which correspond to various options in the DrScheme language dialog. 18:02:09 Yeah, I see that right now. I ran the code in mred before I looked at it, but I see the prefix now. 18:02:45 You should be fine as long as the actual body of the file looks like plain text. 18:02:46 Man, I can't believe I was just about to fire up DrScheme and torture myself some more. Thank you so much for the help. 18:03:05 what's wrong with drscheme Pinchyfingers? 18:03:17 I sure as hell don't plan on putting images in my source code, although I saw that in the HtDP book. 18:03:23 If you ever see a file with lots of binary-looking strings, then that would be a file that has embedded non-textual objects like images and such. 18:03:24 Nothing, my computer just sucks. 18:03:41 I'm just saying that in case you get a file in your class having them. 18:03:41 oh ok 18:04:04 You could lurk outside an elementary school, mug a 7-year-old for their milk money, and use the resulting largesse to quadruple your RAM. Just a thought. 18:04:15 Hehe. It's a thought. 18:04:31 I have plenty of money to upgrade, but I think I'm going to just build a new computer soon. 18:05:03 I'd rather work in VIM anyway, so this good info regardless of my computer's level of suckiness. 18:05:08 Pinchyfingers: BTW, seeing your comment about finishing htdp -- you *could* also just run things in mzscheme, provided that you don't use the gui stuff. 18:05:44 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 18:05:48 It's kind of awkward because the whole point of using the gui stuff is to make it more approachable -- but if you're a vim user then you probably have a different concept of what is considered approachable. 18:05:55 eli: I'm committed to doing every example and exercise, even though a lot of it reight now seems kind of remedial. 18:06:15 Yeah, gui is not really my friend. 18:06:51 eli: it seems that MrEd is going to work pretty well. 18:07:20 (I don't remember the details, but it will go up -- if it feels like it's too simple, then you could just move faster through these parts. As long as you don't skip on the main ideas.) 18:08:51 Pinchyfingers: Oh, and one more thing about DrScheme -- for cases where you do need it, one thing that you can do is go to the preferences, then the "Tools" tab. When DrScheme starts it loads up a bunch of code from several "tools", and in that tab you can disable everything that you don't need. 18:09:23 I just want to make sure I don't miss anything. I don't really give a crap about moving shapes around on the screen and all of that. I just want to learn about sciency stuff. 18:09:23 That should get your memory footprint down; I don't remember the numbers, but it might help. 18:10:05 Well, besides the moving shapes on the screen (which you can get through mred) DrScheme does some more useful things. 18:10:42 For example, when things get more confusing -- like when you learn about first class functions and `lambda', you can use the DrScheme stepper to see how the computation goes. 18:10:53 I mean as far as examples in the book that seem kind of basic. My real goal is to understand computer science. I could draw to the screen from BASIC in elementary school. 18:11:10 I'm not really comfortable with being a script kiddie 18:11:30 I'd like to understand abstract data structures and lambda calculus, and so on. 18:11:35 Is this something that you do yourself, or part of some class? 18:11:51 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:27 By myself, but I recently enrolled back into college, where I will have plenty of experience learning java. 18:12:43 mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-46-82-253-250-19.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:12:46 *eli* ewws 18:12:52 I'm not going to trust my education to some institution. 18:13:47 Too bad I can't get into a real school, but I'm just going to do the best with what I've got. 18:13:59 Thanks MIT for open course ware! 18:17:26 i started to teach myself calculus from the MIT open course stuff, but i dropped it half-way through 18:17:39 -!- MichaelRaskin [~MichaelRa@pantagruel.mccme.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:45 jonrafkind: ever check out khanacademy.com? 18:17:51 no 18:18:25 This guy Salaman Khan is a really cool teacher and he has about 1200 videos. You might like it. 18:18:26 -!- kuatto [~kuatto@c-75-72-177-136.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:34 ok 18:18:52 eli: Thanks a lot for your help. I feel like I can get some work done now. 18:19:44 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #scheme 18:22:11 jonrafkind: there is this Norman J. Wildberger professor on youtube that has great math lessons. He is the creator of Rational Trigonometry. 18:22:49 well I didn't drop it for lack of understanding.. I just got bored :p 18:23:04 Pinchyfingers: What I wanted to suggest is that when you're done with htdp, you will probably enjoy moving on to plai (see it at www.plai.org) -- it's a book about programming languages which covers some of the grounds that SICP does, but in a more modern way, and without the (many) problems of SICP. 18:24:34 cool, I've never heard of that book. I"m really open to any suggestions. Do you think that SICP is worth working through at all? 18:24:34 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:24:59 SICP has some good parts, but they're covered in some amount of dust now. 18:26:09 For example, it spends a good chunk of time on `set-car!' and `set-cdr!' and that's not really a good place to spend your time on. Also, it has some antiquated sections about abstractions. 18:26:46 So if you're interested in the PL stuff, then PLAI will get you there more efficiently. 18:27:18 Awesome. I am waiting for the page to load so I can check it out. 18:27:36 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 18:28:06 Poeir [~Poeir@c-98-228-48-133.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:28:11 http://www.cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Books/ProgLangs/ 18:28:17 Looks cool 18:28:27 Shouldn't be that slow... But you can get the full PDF there. (The author considered a conventional publisher, but decided to go this way.) 18:28:44 plai.org is broken. 18:29:25 And there is also a planet package that goes with the book to give you the right language for it. (And you'll be able to do it all in mzscheme, I don't remember any gui.) 18:29:55 Re plai.org -- I've talked to him about it, he has some opinion about intentionally using the "www." prefix... 18:30:21 (I have almost the opposite opinion, which is why `plt-scheme.org' works fine...) 18:30:27 I just read: 'I recommend using DrScheme version 4.2' and I thought, man, good thing eli helped me out. 18:31:05 Well, you should be fine with just plain mzscheme... 18:31:39 But you will lose the extra features that drscheme gives you, which could be important when you're dealing with the heavier stuff. 18:32:02 Maybe I'll have a new computer by then. :) 18:34:38 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 18:35:42 I wish I had started studying this stuff years ago, I feel like I have a lot of catch up to do. I'm gonna start feeding my brain now. 18:38:16 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:44:14 MononcQc [~ftrottier@207.253.180.96] has joined #scheme 18:45:38 Fufie [~innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 18:47:36 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:48:06 -!- Foofie [~innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:48:35 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 18:52:51 jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-uogegqiyoapcjxbl] has joined #scheme 18:58:59 Does anyone here use geiser? 19:01:47 Edico_ [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 19:02:16 -!- Edico [~Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:03:28 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 19:07:57 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:08:49 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 19:13:33 langmartin [~user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 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[~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:39:15 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 21:40:02 -!- davazp` [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:10 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:15 davazp` [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:40:38 drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:41:03 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:08 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:08 Dawgmatix [~Dawgmatix@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:48:43 emma [~em@cpe-72-225-241-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:48:44 -!- emma [~em@cpe-72-225-241-65.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:48:44 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 21:52:47 -!- saccade_ [~saccade@c-66-31-40-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:13 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:55:37 -!- Pinchyfingers [~tommy@173.62.244.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:55:45 Okay, a question: R5RS requires that string break it in what way? 21:57:15 By allowing more (or less) sophisticated sorting algorithms to be used. 21:57:54 saccade_ [~saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 21:58:40 "less"? 22:02:07 If it's not lexicographic based on char For example: If chars are Unicode values, but strings can only contain the Windows-1252 subset, then naive binary sorting of strings will not be equivalent to sorting by characters. 22:02:48 The Unicode collation algo, perhaps. 22:02:49 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:02:55 I'm not even sure under what circumstances people would use string Heaps. 22:03:13 Or B-trees. 22:03:15 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:03:28 Ohh, I see what you are saying 22:03:50 The Unicode algorithm would be an example of a more sophisticated sort. 22:03:51 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:17 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 22:04:36 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:05:28 Would that mean (string In principle, though I think it would be very unlikely. 22:07:45 It would definitely mean that (string Huh? 22:09:29 German vs Swedish? 22:09:46 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:10:12 -!- Belaf [~campedel@194.209.131.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:30 Yes. 22:11:49 Or perhaps "smart sorting" vs. "dumb Latin-1 sorting". 22:12:58 sorry, that would be for (string I don't hear anyone screaming "NO! NO! MUST BE LEXICOGRAPHIC!" here. 22:14:56 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-22-130.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:17:28 I'm trying to recall the objections the last time around.... 22:17:44 Microsoft wants me to reboot. Bye-bye. 22:17:46 -!- Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Quit: Smoove out.] 22:26:26 Daemmerung [~goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 22:26:26 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:09 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-46-82-253-250-19.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 22:28:36 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:28 jcowan, there was lots of discussion of this in the R6RS srfi on unicode 22:29:38 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 22:32:29 Mr-Cat [~Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:32:47 R6RS is firmly Unicode. I don't think that Thing One necessarily will be. 22:33:05 But I'll look through that archive. 22:44:55 jamamooga [~quassel@99-196-239-40.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #scheme 22:45:01 -!- jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-uogegqiyoapcjxbl] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:45:22 Hehe! http://groups.google.com/group/scheme-reports-wg1/msg/3e851b4a89c8f54b 22:46:15 incubot: To change the subject, and speaking of driving stakes in the ground,I hereby propose that WG1 symbols are case-insensitive. 22:46:18 driving is just...bad 22:46:52 I've just posted the location of my counterproposal: http://docs.google.com/View?id=dc46qrdf_17w7v486hc 22:47:39 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:49:06 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:28 mejja: ugh 22:50:40 I truly hate the R6RS Unicode escape syntax of \x;. 22:50:55 And I thought only public mailing lists went crazy. 22:51:22 It is C-style braindamage. I hate it, too. 22:52:27 Of all the termination characters, why did it have to be semicolon? 22:52:35 -!- jamamooga [~quassel@99-196-239-40.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:35 Exactly! 22:53:30 SGML/XML, I suppose. 22:54:02 Daemmerung: What alternative would you have suggested? 22:54:27 arcfide: http://lists.r6rs.org/pipermail/r6rs-discuss/2007-July/003073.html 22:54:39 nickgibbon [~nring@210.8.201.244] has joined #scheme 22:55:40 jamamooga [~quassel@99-196-239-40.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #scheme 22:56:40 And there was no comment on this? 22:57:59 There was none. It was pretty late in the R6 game. 22:58:00 -!- jamamooga [~quassel@99-196-239-40.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:07 -!- choas [~lars@p5B0DC7D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:00:26 -!- NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-22-82-249-125-175.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:00:39 I'm proposing |...| a la CL 23:00:43 as an alternative 23:01:57 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.196] has joined #scheme 23:06:00 But not a la CL, right? 23:06:18 (where vertical bar means "take the ensuing characters in the source text stream literally") 23:06:40 What's the difference? 23:06:44 e.g. |CamelCasedSymbol| 23:06:51 -!- mmc1 [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:07:24 The syntax that mejja and I abhor is that for hexadecimal encodings. 23:08:36 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:10:29 So in CL, a|B|c would be a symbol that has uppercase B as its second character, the settings of *readtable* and *print-case* notwithstanding. 23:11:07 What I was proposing was \|...|, the backslash indicating hex-encoding magic. 23:11:36 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:49 rudybot: eval (symbol->string 'a|BB|a) 23:11:57 mejja: error: with-limit: out of time 23:12:00 H\|65|llo -> Hello; H|65|llo -> H65llo. 23:12:09 rudybot: eval (symbol->string 'a|BB|a) 23:12:13 mejja: your sandbox is ready 23:12:13 mejja: ; Value: "aBBa" 23:12:19 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@dhcp-212-239.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Quit: copumpkin] 23:12:36 incubot: See that girl, watch that scene 23:12:39 aw, it's a girl 23:13:05 saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:13:34 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:13 NNshag [~shag@lns-bzn-57-82-249-10-215.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:15:35 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.196] has joined #scheme 23:18:45 mreggen [~mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 23:25:36 shadwick [~portal@d207-6-253-38.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 23:25:45 hello hello 23:28:21 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:59 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 23:34:14 -!- jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:55 I don't like it either, but I'm proposing CL-style |...| around the whole symbol as an alternative. 23:35:08 jengle [~9598170a@gateway/web/freenode/x-erxsjpdylpmjuhnt] has joined #scheme 23:35:11 jonrafkind [~jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 23:35:13 In CL, you need to be able to say |foo|:|bar| and let that be one symbol distinct from |foo:bar|. 23:35:20 But Scheme, fortunately, has no such needs. 23:35:40 So |foo|:|bar| would be three tokens, |foo|, :, and |bar| 23:37:15 Eh? 23:37:27 I'm not sure I like that. 23:38:16 hadronzoo_ [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-96-124.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:38:27 -!- davazp` [~user@165.Red-83-46-5.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:38:33 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@220.120.43.80] has joined #scheme 23:39:20 Mikaeel_Mohamed [~Mohamdu@129-97-241-135.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 23:39:27 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-96-124.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:29 -!- hadronzoo_ is now known as hadronzoo 23:39:30 Same as "foo"x"bar" is three tokens. 23:39:32 arcfide: Chez doesn't exists from a standardisation pov. It can be completely ignored. 23:39:55 "Code is important, implementations are not." --motto of the ANSI C standardization committee 23:40:15 jcowan: petit chez: '|foo|:|bar| => foo:bar 23:41:33 It's not something I think is critical one way or the other. Chicken does it the opposite way. 23:42:06 So there would be no hex escape at all? That's okay by me. 23:42:15 (Actually, Chicken has a bug: it treats it as |foo| |:\|bar| 23:42:48 Well, the problem with not having any escape is when I get code written with Japanese identifiers and I don't do Japanese charactres. R6RS doesn't have that problem because it is all Unicode all the time. 23:42:53 -!- shadwick [~portal@d207-6-253-38.bchsia.telus.net] has left #scheme 23:44:15 That's a problem of the encoding of the program source, I think. Japanese Schemers are unlikely to use trigrams in their own code. 23:44:25 (trigram in the C sense) 23:46:08 I confess to being slightly mystified at the amount of support that case-insensitivity has received. I can't recall the last time I saw a program which made use of or would benefit from case-folding behavior. The code I write would work equally well with or without case folding. Can someone point me to something which demonstrates the expressive utility of case folding? 23:46:26 -!- saint_cypher [~saint_cyp@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:47:33 The blackboard style, where folks want to have `LET' and `let' both resolve to the same lexeme. Ria uses that style often enough here. 23:50:29 Narrenschiff [~ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 23:52:41 I'm looking for some official documentation on ER macros. Where can I find it? 23:52:50 mejja: Eh? 23:53:47 arcfide: ? 23:53:50 chandler: Riastradh uses it. 23:54:11 mejja: Above you said Chez doesn't exists from a standardization POV, I'm not sure what you mean by that or why you brought up Chez in particular. 23:54:57 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:55:07 arcfide: In code, or just in IRC explanations? 23:55:17 I'm not sure I've seen him use it in code, but perhaps I've missed it. 23:55:45 chandler: In code. 23:55:49 chandler: In macros mostly. 23:55:58 chandler: I think foof-loop has some things in it. 23:56:14 I thought he used UPPER-CASE for introduced identifiers. 23:56:24 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:57:04 Er, it's the other way 'round.