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(newline)) 00:31:58 # 00:32:17 How functional. 00:33:27 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:33:29 incubot: (format "Am I still with us?\n") 00:33:30 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.197.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:49 Guess not. 00:33:58 I really need to get writing my little bot. 00:34:06 I feel so, single, here. 00:34:13 I have no pet. 00:34:17 Everybody's doin' it. 00:34:32 It's a great way to pad our numbers here. 00:34:33 :-) 00:35:52 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-50-231-251.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:03 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-50-231-251.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:41:26 *Daemmerung* taunts cripple-bot, I mean rudybot 00:46:35 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 00:46:59 :-( 00:52:28 Kusanagi [~Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 00:59:14 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-248-95.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 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[~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:34:59 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-248-95.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 01:36:10 -!- TR2N` [email@89-180-224-77.net.novis.pt] has left #scheme 01:38:21 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:33 Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-44-82-249-248-95.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 01:45:29 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 01:46:22 -!- masm [~masm@bl7-207-174.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:24 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-55-44.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:48:39 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-44.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 01:51:31 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:55:21 I'm reading http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-15.html 01:55:31 and i'm slowly beginning to understand call/cc 01:56:07 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-193-55.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 01:56:08 but in the tree->generator in this page, I don't get why ((tree->generator '())) returns '() and not 'skip 01:58:49 and as usual, asking the question and going back to the code made me realize 01:58:56 thanks all for existing ;-) 02:02:04 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 02:03:46 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-118-107.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:51 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:05 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-118-107.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:05:10 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 02:05:29 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 02:10:42 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:10:57 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:14:47 automejja [~edwin@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 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RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-44.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 03:23:48 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:34 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 03:31:14 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:37:11 foof: Are you available? 03:37:30 I'd like some clarification on the precise behavior of your match. 03:38:06 Specifically, given a pattern (x *** y), what is x expected to be here? Is it expected to represent a match pattern for any individual node in the path? 03:40:31 ski_ [~md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 03:47:18 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 03:50:01 jengle [~jengle@69.0.54.57] has joined #scheme 03:54:52 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:57:04 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-50-231-251.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 03:57:18 arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-50-231-251.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:02:07 -!- JoelMcCracken [~joelmccra@pool-96-235-1-117.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:07:35 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 04:09:16 bokr [~eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 04:12:18 -!- arcfide [arcfide@adsl-99-50-231-251.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:15:06 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:17:18 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has 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[~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 10:46:56 melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 10:51:20 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:55:35 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 11:02:10 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 11:02:12 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 11:06:34 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:06:37 kanak [~kanak@209-6-238-148.c3-0.wtr-ubr2.sbo-wtr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 11:07:38 Hi. I'm trying to understand call/cc from Dybvig's TSPL4. I'm confused by this example: (call/cc (lambda (k) (* 5 4)). This returns 20, but i was wondering what is the value of "k" in this case. 11:08:42 -!- mmc [~mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:59 it's the captured continuation, but it's not used, so it returns normally 11:10:04 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:11:11 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:12:40 Fufie [~innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 11:13:28 -!- ente [d9468f58c4@wzff.de] has quit [Changing host] 11:13:28 ente [d9468f58c4@unaffiliated/n0nsense] has joined #scheme 11:14:21 -!- Foofie [~innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:18:02 @sloyd thanks. i guess i was just wondering what the continuation is when (call/cc ...) is at the toplevel? Is it incorrect to think of it as being equivalent, in some sense, to the identity function? 11:23:37 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 11:26:43 it's not really defined, but you can of it that way 11:28:07 mije [~antoine@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 11:28:37 good morning 11:29:39 @sloyd thanks. 11:31:46 suppose i have (+ 4 (call/cc (lambda (k) (* 5 (* 4 (* 3 (* k 2)))))). This evaluates to (+ 4 2) = 6. right? 11:31:56 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:32:51 no, you must apply k, e.g. (k 2) 11:32:59 otherwise, yes 11:33:14 hmm so you're saying the next step is actually (+ 4 (k 2)) = (+ 4 2) = 6 ? 11:34:16 I'm saying (* k 2) is impossble, but if you replaced that with (k 2) the whole expression would be equivalent to (+ 4 2) 11:34:42 oops. sorry. i did mean (k 2). 11:35:14 so it is correct to think of "k" as being equivalent to (lambda (x) (+ 4 x)) ? 11:35:40 yes 11:35:48 wait, no 11:36:03 the difference is that when you apply k, it does not return 11:37:42 i see. because if it was equivalent, then we'd be doing a (* 5 (* 4 (* 3 (+ 4 2)))) which is incorrect. Thanks. I think i'm starting to get it. 11:43:39 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 11:49:22 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:53:10 hotblack23 [~jh@p4FC5BA5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:01:23 kanak: If I remember correctly, Applications of Continuations by Dan Friedman has a nice, somewhat unusual, explanation of continuations. After you are done with TSPL, maybe you want to read that. 12:03:40 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 12:06:42 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:43 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:51 masm: the paper looks really nice. thank you for the recommendation :) 12:07:30 hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 12:10:11 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:11:11 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 12:23:42 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 12:26:24 blackened` [~blackened@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 12:26:39 kanak: the seasoned schemer gives really simple usage of call/cc. It's just used as a `goto' in some examples to get out of a recursion, but it makes it easy to comprehend where the actual *point* of the continuations is in the program. 12:27:58 some of the examples in dyvbig's book suck, imho 12:31:47 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:33:00 -!- hkBst [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:33:11 bytecolor: i agree. I think i'll go through seasoned schemer's treatment of continuations before proceeding with dybvig's. I'm so confused by his examples. 12:34:50 hkBst_ [~hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 12:34:54 kanak: I'm not knocking the book as a whole. I learned a ton from it ;) 12:35:57 I guess some would say I just need to be smarter... and that may very well be the case 12:36:17 i was really following dygvig until his treatment of continuations :/ 12:36:49 is Fixnum Day's treatment of continuations good/better? 12:37:06 haven't read it 12:37:07 HG` [~HG@xdslec141.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 12:37:40 Riastradh used to explain it to people a lot 12:37:52 I think he got tired of that and posted a log of one of those chats online 12:38:14 A search engine might be able to turn that up 12:38:16 There's the "free coffee" usenet post 12:43:42 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 12:44:51 foof` [~user@FL1-122-131-157-146.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 12:49:54 -!- foof [~user@FL1-122-131-157-146.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:51:44 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:52:42 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 12:53:38 -!- hkBst_ 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quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:32:56 hi! 15:33:07 what's the difference between ssax and sxml? 15:33:14 and, which one should I be using? 15:34:28 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:34:34 ssax is the name of the project 15:34:43 sxml is XML in s-expression notation 15:34:59 ssax is also the name of the sxml XML SAX parser 15:35:13 Your question makes no sense 15:36:49 sjamaan: ok :) 15:37:48 sjamaan: there are like 2 projects that look nice for chicken scheme: sxml-transforms and ssax 15:37:56 that's why I was confused 15:38:15 both of them from Oleg Kiselyov 15:38:20 Both are code taken from the ssax project 15:38:44 ssax is the XML parser, sxml-transforms is pre-post-order and everything that belongs to it 15:39:22 I don't really understand what pre-post order is, but I'll look into it :) 15:39:26 thanks 15:39:36 It's documented 15:40:10 okay 15:43:09 -!- hkBst___ [~hkBst@41.184.80.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:44 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 15:43:50 hkBst___ [~hkBst@41.184.80.212] has joined #scheme 15:45:30 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:52 -!- hkBst___ [~hkBst@41.184.80.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:54 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:50:16 hkBst___ [~hkBst@41.184.80.212] has joined #scheme 15:53:00 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 15:53:13 -!- hkBst___ [~hkBst@41.184.80.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:29 hkBst___ [~hkBst@41.184.80.212] has joined #scheme 15:54:43 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 15:58:39 -!- hkBst___ [~hkBst@41.184.80.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:03 (assoc 'zone ((parse/grammar "Thu, 19 Dec 2002 20:35:46 +0200" rfc-5322) 'sattr)) => (zone ((hours . 2) (minutes . 0))) 15:59:25 my parser is actaully getting legs under it ;) 16:00:10 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left #scheme 22:35:53 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-75-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:50 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:40:11 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 22:42:41 -!- AtnNn [~welcome@modemcable049.173-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: dovi] 22:42:51 -!- melba [~blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:37 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:47:15 -!- HeTaL [~teehee@x-134-84-81-24.reshalls.umn.edu] has quit [Quit: *sabs your face*] 22:48:52 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:50:23 hi - anybody like to discuss lisp/scheme fundamentals with me? 22:50:59 Sure. 22:51:11 sah0s: you don't know what you're getting yourself into ... 22:51:27 cool 22:51:50 Yet another announcement: Alex Shinn has taken on the role of WG1 chair, although he won't be active for about another week. 22:52:26 Our very own! 22:52:32 Indeed! 22:52:54 Yay foof! 22:53:12 An excellent choice 22:55:12 -!- drwho [~d@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:55:39 *sjamaan* cheers for foof 22:58:55 sah0s, does (+ 1 2 3) takes one argument, or three, that is the quaestion? 22:59:05 the plus therein, of course. 22:59:27 Lajla: well, in that example, + is of course being _passed_ three arguments. 22:59:36 offby1, I would disagree. 22:59:37 But the procedure + "takes" any number of arguments. 22:59:42 I would say it is passed a list 22:59:43 one argument 22:59:49 Lajla: I say you're wrong! 22:59:54 And my dad can lick your dad. 22:59:55 And this is why philosophy sucks 22:59:57 How can we settle this dispute? 23:00:01 because iit's all a matter of perspective 23:00:05 hm 23:00:10 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 23:00:22 I rather see operations in Lisp as taking one argument, which is a list to be honest. 23:00:38 well, I suppose you can look at it any way you want. But is you way of looking at it particularly useful? 23:00:39 I find it to help create flexible code like (+ 1 (if bla) x y)) 23:00:43 You're both right. It is given arbitrarily many arguments, which it receives in the form of a list. 23:00:50 offby1, well, lists can be constructed 23:01:07 (+ (cons 1 '(2 3)) 23:01:10 ) 23:01:25 Lajla: that's an error. 23:01:29 jcowan, it is? 23:01:33 Yes. 23:01:35 rudybot: eval (+ (cons 1 '(2 3)) 23:01:40 crap, eval is broken 23:01:47 *offby1: error: with-limit: out of time 23:01:47 incubot: (+ (cons 1 '(2 3)) 23:01:48 Error: unterminated list 23:01:53 incubot: (+ (cons 1 '(2 3))) 23:01:53 Error: (+) bad argument type: (1 2 3) 23:01:55 there. 23:02:16 Oh, yeah 23:02:18 you're right 23:02:22 I need (cons + ... 23:02:54 incubot: (cons + (cons 1 '(2 3))) 23:02:55 (# 1 2 3) 23:02:57 or actually eval (cons + ... 23:03:08 That will work, yes. 23:03:43 This is probably why I hate scheme though, it's dreaded inconsistency in this. 23:03:45 But eval is inherently frame-breaking, or level-crossing, or meta-*. 23:04:01 Lisp in general, but it's still the finest language out there. 23:04:40 No inconsistency here. Passing multiple arguments is *not* the same as passing a single argument which is a list. 23:04:57 automejja [~edwin@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 23:05:38 first off, i'm reading about john mccarthy's paper via paul graham, he mentions 7 primitive operations: ... quote, atom, eq, car, cdr, cons and cond ... yet wikipedia for scheme under the heading "minimalism" says Fundamental forms: define, lambda, if, quote, unquote, unquote-splicing, quasiquote, define-syntax, let-syntax, letrec-syntax, syntax-rules, set! 23:05:39 jcowan, I don't mean that. 23:05:42 I mean auto-evaluation 23:05:50 What auto-evaluation? 23:05:53 that some things just arbitrarily auto-evaluate, and others don't. 23:06:04 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:13 i am wondering why those two sets of primitives differ so much 23:06:19 like (+ 1 2 3), one can also write (cons + '(1 2 3)) but that doesn't auto evaluate. 23:06:21 i hope my question makes sense 23:07:07 Lajla: It does "auto evaluate". It evaluates the result of the cons 23:07:08 mejja [~user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 23:07:14 But _that_ result is not re-evaluated 23:07:17 sjamaan, I know 23:07:23 but what is (+ 1 2 3) then 23:07:28 I mean, I hate it that THAT auto evaluates 23:07:33 It evaluates the result of the + 23:07:39 yes, but why? 23:07:39 I don't see any inconsisteny here 23:07:42 sah0s: because two different people wrote them 23:07:44 I just have a list there. 23:07:55 Lajla: Because of the same reason that the cons is evaluated 23:07:57 I have to quote it to stop it from evaluating 23:08:02 cons is a procedure, + is a procedure 23:08:06 What's the difference? 23:08:07 sah0s: The second list excludes all procedures, so atom, eq, car, cdr, and cons won't appear in it. 23:08:10 sah0s: and pg's is about lisp 50 years ago, whereas that Wikipedia thing sounds like it's about contemporary Scheme 23:08:32 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.22] has joined #scheme 23:08:46 I'm not sure why McC's list excludes lambda. 23:08:50 sjamaan, hmm, you might have a point 23:08:58 Lajla: cons creates pairs, + sums 23:09:03 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 23:09:08 sjamaan: error: with-limit: out of time 23:09:14 fuck you, rudybot 23:09:22 rudybot: (cons 1 2) 23:09:22 sjamaan: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 23:09:25 feh! 23:09:40 Anyway. (cons 1 2) => (1 . 2), (+ 1 2) => 3 23:09:40 rudybot, (cons 1 '(2)) 23:09:41 Lajla: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 23:10:11 jcowan: ah, were all those not "procedures"? 23:10:11 Lajla: It's slightly inconsistent that numbers, strings, and booleans don't need to be quoted, but that's a matter of convenience. 23:10:25 jcowan, well, numbers aren't lists are they? 23:10:43 numbers and such evaluate, but they evaluate to themselves 23:10:46 Lajla: Of course not. 23:10:48 Lists do not 23:10:53 offby1: that figures, ... what would you give as the set of axioms for scheme? :) 23:11:11 sah0s: No. lambda, quote, cond/if aren't procedures, because they are not applied to the values of their arguments. 23:11:18 sah0s: Yuo may want to read up on the basic consing stuff in Touretzky's gentle introduction to symbolic computation. 23:11:23 sah0s: It's very well explained. 23:11:33 sepult [~levgue@2001:0:53aa:64c:34bd:4cbd:a8b1:b45a] has joined #scheme 23:11:59 jcowan: i think that lambda (and label) is built from eval which is built from all the other primitives 23:12:05 In a 2LISP like Q, 2 => 2, but '2 => '2. 23:12:08 jimster [~jimster@cpe-70-116-158-133.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:12:18 jcowan: (i think, don't er 'quote me on that) 23:12:31 jcowan: understood 23:12:34 I won't, since it's not true 23:12:52 antoszka: thx, i will 23:13:41 sah0s: hell, I dunno 23:14:32 Lajla: Also: 1 => 1 (eval 1) => 1 (eval (eval 1)) => 1 etc 23:14:35 jcowan: okay, that was just from my reading, it is so circular that it is hard to see what is built on what (according to paul graham that is, i haven't read the original paper of jmc) 23:14:59 sjamaan, are there any objects that are not lists that do not evaluate to themselves? 23:15:13 Lajla: However, (cons '+ '(1 2)) => (+ 1 2) (eval (cons '+ '(1 2)) => 3 (eval (eval (cons '+ '(1 2))) => 3 etc 23:15:18 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:15:32 Lajla: identifiers 23:15:37 incubot: + 23:15:43 pf 23:15:45 vectors, too 23:16:11 Ah, good point 23:16:19 *jimster* just started about scheme last week 23:16:32 so I've been doing project euler 23:16:38 there is something about it still which strikes me as inconsistent and unpreadictable, I can't get my head on what it quite is though 23:17:07 Poll: What is the most beautiful Scheme compiler? 23:17:19 -!- Nshag [~shag@lns-bzn-24-82-64-183-190.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:17:31 Lajla: What would a number evaluate to otherwise? 23:17:40 (if not itself) 23:17:41 jcowan, the Microsoft .NET ASP scheme compiler 23:18:26 -!- wingo [~wingo@120.Red-79-156-147.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:18:26 sjamaan, well, I guess it's this whole thing with 'evaluation' that bothers me about lisps, else I would consider them to be most elegant. 23:18:34 haha 23:18:42 Evaluation is their main strength 23:18:46 I think that it should be reversed, 23:18:47 code = data and data = code 23:18:51 not a quote operator, but an evaluation operator 23:18:52 That's the whole point of Lisp :) 23:18:54 Yes, I know 23:18:59 it is 23:19:16 but I find this auto evaluation to be ugly, instead there should be a special syntax for evaluation of data 23:19:24 sort of a reverse-quote 23:19:35 There is 23:19:36 , 23:19:36 and quote as default 23:19:40 In quasiquote 23:19:45 -!- sepult [~levgue@2001:0:53aa:64c:34bd:4cbd:a8b1:b45a] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:20:01 However, you'd end up with a fugly program riddles with "evaluate" characters 23:20:05 riddled* 23:20:10 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 23:20:28 evaluation is the right default for a program 23:20:28 Well, now you're riddled with quotes. 23:20:32 sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-75-165.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:20:39 Not really, there's more code than data in most programs 23:20:45 That's why they're programs 23:20:58 probably, statistically yes. 23:21:13 You can put your data in a separate file which you READ from 23:21:14 makes sense for what you write to mean "do something" rather than "store something" so auto eval is the way to go 23:21:14 but convenience often unelegant a language makes. 23:21:23 That way you don't need to quote your data 23:21:42 Lajla: you could use a compiler switch :) 23:21:59 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 23:22:13 Lajla: -d for "treat as data by default" 23:22:16 Convenience can make a language ugly, but rigid adherence to perfect systematicity also produces some ugly monsters 23:22:33 seamus_android_ [~scratch@host86-179-231-223.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 23:22:36 System.Console.writeline("foo"); 23:22:40 *sjamaan* coughs 23:24:34 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 23:25:21 *Lajla* goes on to develop own language to solve this all. 23:25:33 *Lajla* 's name shall blaze accross the stars for it. 23:25:48 yep 23:25:57 where can I buy shares? 23:26:22 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:26:28 Lajla: But will it be enterprise-ready? 23:26:44 jimster: ooh, I love Project Euler. 23:26:59 Or, that is, I occasionally have fun dinking at Project Euler problems in Scheme. 23:27:15 If I want to make a scheme program sleep for a period of time, what's the best way to do it? 23:27:22 sjamaan, I think I missed my degree for failure to conform to 'stupid procedures' about defending my thesis, I am more stubborn than Beethoven and a jammed dump in my bum combined. 23:27:25 jimster: http://github.com/offby1/project-euler 23:27:34 jimster: "Programming Praxis" is similar 23:27:38 Can I do it using standard r6rs, or will I need to call something external? I am using ypsilon 23:27:47 seamus_android_: alas, it depends on which Scheme you're using 23:27:51 thought so 23:28:06 dunno how ypsilon does it 23:28:14 -!- mathk [~mathk@lns-bzn-32-82-254-52-211.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ..zzZzzZ] 23:28:15 The only way I can see to do it with ypsilon is calling the unix sleep function 23:28:33 but I want to do it portably if possible 23:30:55 that'd probably work 23:30:55 *offby1* laughs cruelly 23:30:55 if you wanted "portable", why did you choose scheme? 23:30:55 I'm semi-serious 23:31:04 -!- csmrfx is now known as csmrfx_ 23:31:10 I really really like scheme 23:31:39 portable is a bonus 23:31:49 seamus_android_, motivate your awesome taste. 23:40:11 tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 23:45:14 RageOfThou [~RageOfTho@users-55-214.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 23:46:42 Woohoo! Found a function (usleep microsecond) hidden away in ypsilon, so I don't need to faff around with FFIs. 23:47:08 -!- tarbo [~me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:47:36 Should have thought to grep for 'sleep' earlier. 23:49:40 -!- MrFahrenheit [~RageOfTho@users-33-246.vinet.ba] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:51:39 *offby1* should have thought to grep for faff 23:54:07 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-75-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:29 sepult [~levgue@2001:0:53aa:64c:34bd:4cbd:a8b1:b45a] has joined #scheme 23:57:58 -!- sepult [~levgue@2001:0:53aa:64c:34bd:4cbd:a8b1:b45a] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]