00:00:00 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:06 Quadrescence: "and perhaps bound to 'x" -- if that were the case, applying the resulting lambda would error. did you mean something else? 00:02:30 also, what about (TO-LAMBDA '(LET ((X 3)) (+ 1 X)) 'X) ? i.e. what is the language these expressions are written in? 00:04:43 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 00:05:17 if it's just arithmetic expressions formed by a set of operators (`-', `+', ...) having literals variables, and other expressions as arguments, you could tree-walk the ... 00:05:57 erm, scrap that tree-walk part. 00:06:47 rotty: I mean if X is a symbol, and there is nothing bound to it already, or X is defined as 'X, i.e., (define X 'X) 00:06:48 why not just this: (define (to-lambda expression . variables) `(lambda variables ,expression)) ? 00:07:17 x is an identifier in that case. 00:07:28 Something feels wrong about that, but I suppose it would work. 00:08:30 so you would have (DEFINE X 13) in your program, and would like for user-supplied expressions pick that binding for X up? 00:09:33 there's no way to portably do that (at least using a standard "DEFINE") in any RnRS, I think 00:09:34 It would be ideal. 00:09:44 What is the not-portable way? 00:10:19 there are some Scheme implementations that support namespaces as first-class values 00:13:28 but your original question already pointed in the right direction -- it decouples the identifiers of those expressions from the host program 00:13:56 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 00:14:47 (define (to-procedure expression . variables) (eval `(lambda variables expression) some-environment)) 00:14:50 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-eknixryujlptbwuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 00:15:17 (define inc (to-procedure '(+ 1 x) x)) 00:15:28 (inc 5) ; --> 6 00:22:52 -!- chanmode_r_sucks is now known as sloyd 00:37:35 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@setf.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 00:37:35 00:37:35 -!- names: ccl-logbot ski antoszka dsmith jayne kilimanjaro tltstc gnomon emma bzzbzz ve cky ray_ olejorge1b j0ni_ blackened` bgs100 sepult Adamant MichaelRaskin rdd JoelMcCracken proq optikalmouse Fabse mejja devslashnull nullpo RageOfThou mreggen Mr_Awesome jmcphers bipt` saint_cypher mrsolo duncanm Khisanth stepnem gabot Zuu dnm_ jay-mccarthy alexsuraci dlouhy mhoye SharkBrain XTL cmatei Leonidas erg dfeuer Pepe_ tabe` Adrinael BD|gone elf csmrfx 00:37:35 -!- names: mornfall snorble tomaw__ Checkie Quadrescence Mr-Cat foof` TR2N nutmegmagi2 jonrafkind Modius Lajla Fufie nothingHappens marcoecc leppie samth copumpkin sphex yosafbridge Sergio` xwl masm luz mario-goulart alaricsp NNshag timchen119 ASau kniu xwl_ tjaway araujo Poeir eno roderic chandler mrd` jyujin_ sjamaan nicktastic brx slxix eli kencausey _Jordan_ felipe z0d Len__ saccade guenthr joast jimrees Terminus d3z C-Keen mbishop Axioplase_ tizoc 00:37:35 -!- names: peddie rapacity zbigniew klutometis ineiros qebab rotty incubot +lisppaste tarbo Arelius Daemmerung minion clog Obfuscate rmrfchik offby1 rudybot_ nowhere_man Armageddon00 REPLeffect specbot ironChicken dmoerner sloyd borism_ ecraven @elly 00:42:37 nullpo_ [n=nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:47:16 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 00:48:19 -!- masm [n=masm@bl10-245-183.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:53:49 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 00:57:16 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:59:31 -!- nullpo [n=nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:01:01 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 01:01:08 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:11:17 -!- ray_ is now known as ray 01:13:22 uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 01:14:41 arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-50-229-251.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:15:08 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-184-50.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:15:25 Is there any abstraction or general API for allowing resources in the filesystem to be accessed simultaneously in a safe manner from multiple processes? Something in Scheme would, of course, make my day. 01:15:39 I'm thinking of things like CGI scripts. 01:15:47 Say that they all need access to some session table. 01:16:26 That session table is kept persistent in the filesystem. Each CGI instance may alter or update that session table in the filesystem, and doing so much occur in a controlled, safe manner. 01:16:31 Anyone? 01:16:33 :-) 01:18:09 I guess flock(2) is the main way of doing this, no? 01:18:16 In Win32 I'd create a named mutex object. 01:18:42 arcfide: use sqlite 01:19:06 most unix's support exclusive open 01:20:24 jonrafkind: Do they also block while waiting to get access to this? Not to mention, if multiple processes try to access the file exclusively, there's a potential for deadlock or starvation, or is there? 01:20:40 zbigniew: SQLite is all well and good, but what if I don't want something so...intense? 01:20:44 starvation probably, deadlock I dont think so 01:21:11 I mean if a process has exclusive access to a file and tries to re-open it, I think it succeeds 01:21:17 As for SQLite, is there a good, portable binding around somewhere? 01:21:59 jonrafkind: If two processes require two locks on two resources, and one of them gets one, and the other gets the other lock, then they will deadlock trying to get access to the final lock. 01:22:29 I'm pretty sure the open fails if you dont have access, you dont just wait for it 01:22:41 you could get into deadlock if you try to keep re-opening the file, though 01:22:56 jonrafkind: flock(2) is blocking by default. 01:23:17 jonrafkind: Most Schemes don't block when they try to open files exclusively, I think. 01:23:43 i havent seen any schemes support exclusive open, but then again I haven't looked very hard 01:23:50 jonrafkind: Chez does. 01:24:02 I think Scheme48 and PLT do as well. 01:24:15 I wouldn't be surprised if Chicken and MIT Scheme supported it as well. 01:24:33 Though I haven't played with them in a while. 01:25:32 ah it seems that PLT implicitly uses O_EXCL for some cases 01:26:03 But, using lockfiles (which is what the O_EXCL implies) is kind of a gnarly hack. 01:26:13 Also, it's not mandatory locking, which is what I think arcfide is looking for. 01:26:32 The only kind of mandatory locking I know about uses fcntl. 01:26:36 -!- saint_cypher [n=saint_cy@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:40 I hear that flock is actually discretionary locking too. 01:28:34 cky: A discretionary lock is okay for me, because I'm assuming that the only programs going to access this will be ones that will behave with each other. 01:30:20 arcfide: Oh, okay then, in that case you have more options, including flock and lockfiles. :-P 01:32:52 cky: Basically, my problem is waiting, getting mutex like behavior from the filesystem. I'd have to write some FFI bindings to flock(2) or some such to get that. 01:33:25 annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 01:34:12 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has left #scheme 01:34:20 annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has joined #scheme 01:41:47 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:47:16 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 01:48:39 partisan [n=partisan@121.124.124.117] has joined #scheme 01:50:02 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:52:30 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-78-35-194-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:52:55 -!- alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:53:26 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-gpzdklnakgdeycea] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:54:09 alexsuraci [n=alexsura@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:18 arcfide: *nods* 02:03:13 -!- uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:03:20 -!- optikalmouse [n=user@bas1-toronto10-1279559101.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:03:37 fiddle [i=55e5b649@gateway/web/freenode/x-ffogvmmttnzucjbo] has joined #scheme 02:04:39 *fiddle* test1 02:04:44 Test2 02:04:58 -!- fiddle [i=55e5b649@gateway/web/freenode/x-ffogvmmttnzucjbo] has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:47 fiddle [i=55e5b649@gateway/web/freenode/x-bdkmualcfthaivuj] has joined #scheme 02:17:09 automejja [n=edwin@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 02:20:17 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:20:36 -!- fiddle [i=55e5b649@gateway/web/freenode/x-bdkmualcfthaivuj] has quit ["foo"] 02:21:00 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:21:39 -!- automejja [n=edwin@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Everything would be fine if users would learn to love the lash."] 02:23:31 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:25:29 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 02:29:19 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:32:41 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 02:34:27 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 02:36:50 -!- Len__ [n=Len@IGLD-84-228-254-219.inter.net.il] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:36:56 Len_ [n=Len@IGLD-84-228-254-219.inter.net.il] has joined #scheme 02:40:43 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:48:30 uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 02:49:29 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Apfelstrudel!"] 02:50:15 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 02:52:39 *jcowan* unvanishes and all that. 03:05:46 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:09:31 -!- nutmegmagi2 [n=swalters@pool-71-101-160-3.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:16:09 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 03:16:35 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-55-50.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:16:44 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-50.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 03:25:25 *arcfide* digitally reconstitutes himself. 03:29:12 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 03:34:41 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #scheme 03:36:04 parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 03:40:14 QinGW2 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #scheme 03:40:50 Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-208-226.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 03:41:58 bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has joined #scheme 03:45:05 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:45:31 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 03:48:10 nutmegmagi [n=swalters@static-72-91-30-22.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:09 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:50:30 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 03:52:37 tjafk [n=timj@e176193131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:54:41 -!- nullpo_ [n=nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 03:54:53 -!- Checkie [i=4111@unaffiliated/checkie] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:57:00 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:57:30 saccade_ [n=saccade@c-24-61-43-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:58:37 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:06:06 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:06:46 yay jcowan! 04:07:05 Thank you! But why? 04:07:39 I haven't had enough linguistic asides lately. 04:08:02 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:08:30 offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has joined #scheme 04:08:32 ("What imbecility have I committed that they applaud me thus?") 04:08:44 Everybody needs cheerleaders. 04:09:06 -!- tjaway [n=timj@e176203192.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:09:09 *foof`* wants a cheerleader 04:09:28 *Daemmerung* looks at his pom-poms, then reconsiders 04:09:32 Preferably a Laker Girl. 04:09:36 -!- foof` is now known as foof 04:10:24 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot 04:10:30 -!- nutmegmagi [n=swalters@static-72-91-30-22.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:10:37 Checkie [i=1411@unaffiliated/checkie] has joined #scheme 04:10:45 nutmegmagi [n=swalters@static-72-91-30-22.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:13:00 -!- alaricsp [n=alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:22:23 -!- uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:36:33 -!- nutmegmagi [n=swalters@static-72-91-30-22.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #scheme 04:42:11 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:52:42 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has joined #scheme 05:03:16 -!- devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-151.greentreefrog.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:03:30 devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-151.greentreefrog.net.au] has joined #scheme 05:03:41 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-208-226.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:08:46 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 05:12:53 Adamant, I'm still not sure which linguistic aside you're referring to. 05:13:10 jcowan: just in general 05:13:17 Oh, okay. 05:13:30 you usually make some point about linguistics inside a discussion 05:13:38 and I enjoy learning about it, so 05:13:53 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 05:15:07 TR2N` [i=email@89.180.233.165] has joined #scheme 05:15:42 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-50.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:16:30 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 05:18:05 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-208-232.net.novis.pt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:18:19 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 05:18:28 inside a discussion, it's too dark to read 05:21:35 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.133] has joined #scheme 05:33:15 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:41:21 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.197.90] has joined #scheme 05:59:33 offby1: It quite depends on what else the dog, er, discussion has swallowed, doesn't it? 06:07:25 mathk [n=mathk@lns-bzn-28-82-250-129-63.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 06:11:03 elderK [n=zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 06:17:25 -!- parolang 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[n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:53:27 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 06:57:07 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@dhcp-212-196.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [] 06:58:50 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:03:03 Just pondering. 07:03:11 :P Stressed over an essay-synopses thing I hvae to write. 07:03:16 also pondering scheme parsin' 07:03:22 :P consider it an assignment, the schem eparser. 07:03:27 although, it's not one. 07:03:28 :) 07:13:40 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:23:27 aidalgol [i=aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #scheme 07:24:57 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 07:25:49 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 07:32:59 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:33:50 ASau` [n=user@77.246.231.142] has joined #scheme 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[n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 09:35:26 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 09:35:36 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 09:35:42 SharkBra1n [n=gerard@125-239-135-180.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 09:35:42 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 09:37:47 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:41:54 Belaf [n=campedel@net-93-144-10-196.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 09:45:09 schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 09:53:07 melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #scheme 09:54:06 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 09:54:31 chylli [n=lchangyi@60.211.210.142] has joined #scheme 09:56:09 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:56:30 is there a function like (map-sequence x f1 f2 f3) which will do (f3 (f2 (f1 x))) 09:58:37 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@60.211.210.142] has left #scheme 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:10:19 -!- kniu [n=kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 10:11:06 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@c-24-61-43-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 10:11:22 saccade_ [n=saccade@c-24-61-43-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:12:54 -!- xwl [n=user@125.34.171.81] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:15:18 xwl [n=user@123.115.111.34] has joined #scheme 10:17:20 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-241-175.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:18:24 hkBst__ [n=hkBst@41.184.80.212] has joined #scheme 10:18:47 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 10:28:31 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:31:18 -!- Lajla [n=Lajla@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl] 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has joined #scheme 11:27:04 nutmegmagi [n=swalters@pool-71-101-160-3.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:27:09 -!- nutmegmagi [n=swalters@pool-71-101-160-3.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #scheme 11:37:14 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:41:16 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:41:27 -!- borism_ [n=boris@213-35-234-36-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:53:04 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:54:17 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:54:43 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:00:44 alvatar [n=alvatar@67.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 12:02:22 Cheery [n=cheery@a91-156-181-154.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 12:03:01 hi. I've gotten forward with my programming language project. 12:03:46 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-180-142.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:04:16 Though now I wonder, when I can't remove closures and function calls in language with continuation passing, how should I translate things like jumps with arguments? 12:05:23 to these questions I know the answers for C. 12:05:51 it's very simple because I have a reference point and the language details by this part are simple. 12:06:51 It's just that C calling conventions break completely for a programming language with closures and continuations. 12:12:18 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit ["Quitting"] 12:18:30 So it's sort of a question about.. how does code generated by scheme implementations pass function arguments around? 12:22:55 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:25:19 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has joined #scheme 12:29:48 masm [n=masm@bl7-206-144.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 12:37:46 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:53:00 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-173-77.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:53:25 -!- xwl [n=user@123.115.111.34] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:55:38 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-173-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:57:52 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-173-77.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:57:58 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 13:02:38 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 13:11:15 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:12:08 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:12:40 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:13:33 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 13:17:33 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-173-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:18:39 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-173-77.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:19:49 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-173-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:21:33 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:22:12 Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:22:31 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:27:31 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-173-77.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:27:48 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:36:47 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 13:38:45 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@c-24-61-43-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:46:36 prince [n=prince@203.246.179.177] has joined #scheme 13:55:33 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:59:00 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-140.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 13:59:03 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 14:04:32 FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 14:10:29 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:12:35 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:19:28 -!- hkBst__ [n=hkBst@41.184.80.212] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:24:47 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:33:15 Belaf1 [n=campedel@net-93-144-5-30.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 14:33:51 -!- Belaf [n=campedel@net-93-144-10-196.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:34:16 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:34:29 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:34:30 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:37:50 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 14:39:42 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:40:01 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 14:41:39 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:42:25 Reilithion [n=reilithi@75-162-240-236.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 14:43:46 I've been looking at different build systems (mostly in disgust) lately, and I came across Conjure. I'm curious why it apparently hasn't been worked on in 3-4 years? 14:44:26 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Success] 14:44:35 well 14:44:49 does it look extremely promising and solve a problem that nobody else solves well? 14:44:50 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 14:44:59 because those are the main ingredients for a dead project :P 14:45:41 lol 14:47:48 "/w 22 14:47:49 -!- partisan [n=partisan@121.124.124.117] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:47:49 oops 14:48:00 Yeah, we know. "Wrong window." 14:49:18 yes :P 14:52:27 the darcs repos for conjure are gone :| 14:52:40 and the IRC channel is deceased 14:52:58 the manual is still up, though, so you can steal their ideas :) 14:53:03 Ask rotty 14:53:12 gtg now 14:53:22 Yeah, it's way too bad. There's a shortage of decent build systems out there. 14:54:49 Chicken has been through several, and has now reverted to simple "make PLATFORM=foo" with a list of hard-coded platforms. 14:55:02 how come, jcowan? 14:55:15 My guess is portability. 14:55:25 Because more time was being spent fighting the build system than getting things done. 14:55:29 -!- Zuu [i=zuu@unaffiliated/zuu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:56:17 ah, I see 14:56:24 well, make *does* work, I guess... 14:56:27 I still can't believe that autoconf/automake is so prolific. It has to be the ugliest thing I've ever seen! 14:56:41 ugh, autotools 14:56:55 The current list of platforms is bsd, linux, macosx, solaris, cygwin, mingw, mingw-msys, and cross-linux-mingw. 14:57:17 elly: there's the R6RS rendition of conjure: http://github.com/rotty/conjure 14:57:37 rotty: I am intrigued by your ideas 14:57:57 but there is no documentation, and only two autoconfish usages for spells and sbank 14:58:06 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:58:45 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:59:02 yeah... 14:59:12 um, the #!@ thing is sort of weird 14:59:26 Zuu [i=zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 15:00:01 The original repository is also alive http://darcs.hacks-galore.org/darcsweb/jao 15:00:46 that appears to be an empty darcs repository? 15:00:54 wait, that's interesting 15:00:56 Hm, Common Lisp rewrite is only a year old 15:01:29 elly, browse somewhere where it will tell what to clone - I just named a summary page 15:01:33 fda314925 [n=fda31492@121.124.124.117] has joined #scheme 15:01:35 -!- Zuu [i=zuu@unaffiliated/zuu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:01:38 yeah, I found it 15:02:12 elly: it's intended to not conflict with valid scheme syntax, but the escape sequence can be adjusted if desired 15:02:39 why is not being valid scheme syntax a desirable property there? 15:02:46 I just really think it's time for autotools to die. And if Make slips into the abyss after it, so much the better. 15:03:00 Reilithion: so replace autotools with something better and just as portable? 15:03:20 elly, very hard even if it is already ready 15:03:21 elly: Which is why I was drawn to Scheme 15:03:55 *elly* -> class 15:03:58 The rumor says that a week after the original make, there was a small variation that used spaces and tabs interchangeably.. 15:04:00 o/ elly 15:04:51 MichaelRaskin: I can believe it. One thing experience has taught me is that software seems to survive on a worst-common-denominator basis. 15:05:16 On a need-done-yesterday basis, I would say 15:05:28 They go hand-in-hand. 15:05:46 The real key is hiding effort cost 15:05:51 Zuu [i=zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 15:06:05 Under the developer crash-pad. 15:06:18 Wherever 15:06:53 Tell people that C++ is just a small extension of C - they will believe, and a year better they will not admit the sunk cost 15:07:16 And their blood tears over C++ insanities after they are suck into it do not matter... 15:08:19 I have dreams in Python. And nightmares in C++. 15:12:38 -!- Zuu [i=zuu@unaffiliated/zuu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:12:42 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:13:21 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-1-100.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 15:13:25 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-173-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:18:16 Zuu [i=zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 15:19:00 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:25:36 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:26:07 -!- bokr [n=eduska@95.154.102.124] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:28:31 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:28:49 I started thinking about algorithms in scheme a few months ago 15:29:06 it was very, very strange; it's the first language that ever pulled my mind away from C 15:29:07 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-173-77.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:29:57 MichaelRaskin: The story is told that when Stu Feldman came to work for Google, his workstation was equipped with a special keyboard -- with no Tab key. 15:30:12 hahaha 15:30:24 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:30:28 oh, thanks for reminding me, jcowan - I need to send Google my signed acceptance 15:30:44 For employment? Cool. 15:30:52 yep :) 15:30:55 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:30:56 in boston! 15:30:57 Sweet 15:31:00 jcowan, well, his only fault was that he has shown the "make" to others too often 15:31:03 Oops 15:31:06 Too early 15:31:25 congrats, elly 15:31:26 Yes. "I could fix it -- but there must be a dozen people using it already!" 15:31:44 *jcowan* looks to see what Google Boston office does 15:32:51 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:34:36 ejs [n=eugen@6-83-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 15:37:04 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:37:16 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 15:38:30 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 15:41:17 -!- Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:41:35 Modius [n=Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:52:10 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:03 blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 15:55:21 whittle [n=bill@adsl-70-238-175-231.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has 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closed the connection] 17:48:10 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a95-95-190-253.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 17:48:44 aputtu [n=aputsiaq@88.83.2.114] has joined #scheme 17:48:50 -!- aputtu [n=aputsiaq@88.83.2.114] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:48:57 aputtu [n=aputsiaq@88.83.2.114] has joined #scheme 17:49:32 scheme rawks 17:49:53 -!- borism [n=boris@237.80.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:50:43 -!- aputtu [n=aputsiaq@88.83.2.114] has left #scheme 17:53:20 -!- mickn [n=mickn@76-10-169-240.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:54:31 mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 17:56:54 Yes it does! 18:03:46 -!- snorble [n=none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has left #scheme 18:04:41 -!- ejs [n=eugen@6-83-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:05:27 saint_cypher [n=saint_cy@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:06:09 snorble [n=snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 18:11:16 trolling, ur doing it wrong 18:12:18 -!- Reilithion [n=reilithi@75-162-240-236.slkc.qwest.net] has left #scheme 18:14:38 Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@a95-95-190-253.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 18:16:56 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:16:58 attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 18:18:46 bytecolor: you forget something! 18:18:49 it doesnt just rawk, 18:18:52 it rawks yo sawks! 18:25:50 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a95-95-190-253.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:26:33 -!- alvatar [n=alvatar@67.127.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit ["leaving"] 18:26:35 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 18:29:30 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-140.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:29:58 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-140.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 18:34:24 -!- mathk [n=mathk@lns-bzn-28-82-250-129-63.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [] 18:36:25 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:37:37 -!- Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@a95-95-190-253.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:38:34 nod, I'm doing some truly convolute programming, and I *still* can't paint myself into a corner ;) 18:38:56 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:40:29 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-27-47.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:45:35 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:47:10 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-27-47.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 18:47:43 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:54:10 bytecolo` [n=user@32.153.90.239] has joined #scheme 18:54:26 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.153.9.250] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:54:48 -!- bytecolo` is now known as bytecolor 18:55:47 :D hahaah 18:55:47 :) 18:55:53 has anyone ever used a stack-based symbol table for scope? Each var has an associated stack. When you enter a scope you push a marker onto existing vars stacks. When subsequent vars are added, they shadow the former vars. When I exit a scope, I pop until I hit a marker or until the stack is empty. If the stack is empty, remove the var from the table. 18:57:07 Sounds more or less like srfi-39 params 18:57:23 Except that those demand a predetermined set of vars 18:57:23 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:57:28 oh? hrm I've been googling trying to find what I'm doing but ... 18:57:49 What you want is called dynamic scoping 18:58:52 like emacs, you mean? call a proc within a let, the let binings are visible within the called proc? 18:58:57 indeed 18:58:59 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 18:59:21 Old Lisps used to have this scoping, until Scheme showed that lexical scoping is a lot more reliable and usable 18:59:37 I can see where that could be useful, but yes, it coul get nasty 19:00:43 That's why we have srfi-39; for those situations where it's useful 19:00:56 mathk [n=mathk@lns-bzn-28-82-250-129-63.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:02:58 ah, I was just reading 39, thanks sjamaan 19:04:23 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:05:54 Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 19:06:29 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:08:08 saccade_ [n=saccade@c-24-61-43-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:09:30 s/a lot more reliable and usable/reliable and usable/ 19:09:46 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:10:36 :) 19:10:38 hi eli 19:10:44 sjamaan: Good morning. 19:11:16 See also the withdrawn SRFI-15. 19:11:42 (which codifies the MIT-Scheme and Larceny approach, I think) 19:11:49 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:11:50 /ies/ied 19:11:57 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-14-179.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 19:14:08 Interesting, I didn't know that we had that SRFI 19:14:32 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:16:56 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:16 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:18:54 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 19:19:48 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:21:44 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:27:17 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:27:50 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:29:08 Larceny supports parameters, not fluids. My mistake. 19:29:54 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:29:55 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 19:30:12 Of course! fluids are for hippies! 19:30:40 -!- Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:30:49 *mejja* reads the backlog 19:30:56 *bytecolor* has long hair *and* a bushy beard 19:31:18 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:31:31 I thought it was hippies that were trying to steal my fluids. 19:31:31 *eli* casts a Summon Cartman spell 19:31:58 *Daemmerung* appears in a puff of bad temper 19:32:57 *eli* waits 19:33:20 *elly* has long hair, but, unsurprisingly, no beard 19:33:25 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:33:29 aahah 19:34:14 *Daemmerung* hates on Lisp hackers and anybody who looks like a Lisp hacker 19:34:35 Daemmerung: you should have shouted "RESPECT MY AUTHORITA!". 19:34:38 *Daemmerung* takes up a collection to buy elly a proper beard 19:36:30 I don't need a beard, Daemmerung :P 19:36:33 I would look very odd 19:36:39 oh, I still have my hat on 19:36:42 -!- elly has set mode -o elly 19:37:20 It was so stylish. 19:37:34 The beret, I mean. 19:38:02 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:39:34 arcfide [i=arcfide@140-182-145-188.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 19:39:47 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:45:36 -!- parolang [n=user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:46:38 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:51:48 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:52:40 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 19:56:01 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57:44 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:59:10 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-140.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:59:16 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-140.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:59:47 http://twitter.com/scheme => Sorry, the profile you were trying to view has been suspended due to strange activity. 19:59:57 *mejja* laughs 20:00:10 cool 20:00:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-14-179.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:01:07 wingo [n=wingo@11.Red-81-38-187.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:01:12 greets, schemers. 20:01:21 evening, wingo 20:01:36 bzzbzz_ [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:02:34 Hi wingo 20:04:08 Simon14 [i=8e192808@gateway/web/freenode/x-blzesfhlhupdjurq] has joined #scheme 20:04:22 -!- Len_ [n=Len@IGLD-84-228-254-219.inter.net.il] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:06:52 Len_ [n=Len@IGLD-84-228-254-219.inter.net.il] has joined #scheme 20:14:05 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:15:59 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 20:16:49 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 20:17:12 Hi, I have a list of numeric characters (\#1 \#2 etc.) and I want to convert it into an integer so i want (#\1 #\2) to become 12. 20:17:50 I have a possible solution but it would require me to first get the length of the list and I'm wondering if I should avoid that 20:19:17 do you want to write this yourself or just use a library function? 20:19:40 There are certainly ways to solve the problem without you explicitly calling `length' yourself, but this sounds like homework, and `length' is not evil. 20:19:40 i just saw the length function 20:19:43 jao [n=jao@72.Red-213-98-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:19:56 i'll give it a stab 20:20:09 length traverses the list once 20:20:28 If efficiency is important, you might not want to use that 20:20:34 I traverse it three times and take the majority result 20:21:03 Democratic calculation, eh? 20:23:06 haha ok, I got it 20:32:48 anyone going to http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/ ? 20:33:24 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.153.90.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:33:27 hotblack23 [n=jh@p4FC5A727.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:35:31 Simon14: (define chars->number (compose string->number list->string)) 20:35:54 list->string? 20:36:11 apply string 20:36:23 eli: Aw, you're supposed to make him work for it. 20:36:49 *arcfide* slaps Daemmerung with a slimy trout. 20:37:00 eww 20:37:07 *Daemmerung* retreats in the face of strange activity 20:37:18 :D 20:37:55 arcfide: in c.l.s tradition, that solution is perfectly fine for a working code, and absolutely horrible as a homework submission if that's the case. 20:37:58 well i had a working solution 20:38:30 and my teacher said we're not supposed to be using stuff he hasn't talked about (such as strings) 20:38:44 Or `apply' or `compose', I imagine 20:40:22 Simon14: Yes, that makes my solution useless for that purpose. 20:40:47 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 20:40:49 but the (string->number (list->string '(#\1))) is a nice and simple solution 20:41:12 chances are my teacher will go over strings the day before this is due... 20:41:36 *Daemmerung* crossposts to #scheme from comp.lang.lisp, comp.lang.perl, and alt.fan.karl-malden.nose in c.l.s tradition 20:41:45 Or a class after 20:42:15 Simon14: It seems like this is an exercise in learning recursion. Do you understand how to solve the problem without STRING->NUMBER and LIST->STRING? 20:42:31 i have a solution 20:43:24 and i understand recursion, this is part of a bigger problem - evaluating an infix notation equation 20:45:07 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:47:56 what sort of projects is scheme/lisp commonly used for? 20:48:11 Programming projects 20:48:15 *sjamaan* hides 20:48:19 :) 20:48:45 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 20:50:07 Like are there some medium-larger programs out there that have been written in Scheme? 20:50:27 Scheme compilers, for example. :-) 20:50:57 That sounds very... recursive :) 20:51:00 Weather report collators, radio telecope trackers 20:51:07 telescope trackers too, for that matter 20:51:11 phao [n=phao@189.107.174.24] has joined #scheme 20:51:22 Nice 20:51:29 is tehre anyway to use scheme as a scripting language of a bigger app? like LUA is used to script world of warcraft addons 20:51:35 Some graphical widgets. At least one sort of lame game. 20:51:54 phao: Yes 20:52:03 Daemmerung, do you know where I can find more about it? 20:52:08 or... what to search for 20:52:17 Gimp uses scheme, for example. 20:52:38 phao: Do you want an app that uses Scheme for script, or do you want a Scheme suitable for scripting? 20:53:08 I want a page talking about it. 20:53:17 It? 20:53:28 it = using scheme as a scripting language for bigger apps 20:53:43 Search for "embedding scheme" 20:53:48 Ok. 20:53:53 phao: look at the docs for guile; there are others options, too 20:53:57 You should get hits for mzscheme and Guile, among others 20:54:31 klutometis, thank you. 20:54:40 phao: Here's for chicken: http://chicken.wiki.br/man/4/Embedding 20:54:42 That is exactlu what I wanted Daemmerung 20:54:48 I didn't know the name was "embedding" 20:55:01 chibi looks nice too 20:55:34 Chibi looks very nice, but I don't know how well it's documented. 20:55:41 Here's for mzscheme: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/inside/index.html 20:56:02 mario-goulart: oh, interesting 20:56:21 i have shinythingitis and don't want to work with guile 1.8, only 1.9... 20:58:06 -!- schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:59:41 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 21:00:24 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:02:21 *Daemmerung* wishes Gambit were better documented 21:04:40 plt has lovely documentation 21:05:54 PLT's doc is an impossibly high standard. I'd settle for Chicken-level. 21:07:59 -!- Cheery [n=cheery@a91-156-181-154.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #scheme 21:14:15 -!- emma_ [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:14:31 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 21:15:16 -!- nothingHappens [n=nothingh@173-31-122-80.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:19:02 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:19:28 Daemmerung: I don't think PLT Scheme's level of documentation is particularly high if you want a production quality Scheme. 21:20:27 that is a blank statement 21:20:36 -!- phao [n=phao@189.107.174.24] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:20:39 or do you think that only chez is used in production? :) 21:20:52 Daemmerung: I'd maybe thing that PLT's set of tutorials and other things are more than you would require for such a system, but I would at least expect clear and correct documentation of all the visible features of my Scheme implementation if I were to use it for any non-trivial commercial or serious academic work, for example. 21:20:58 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:21:09 wingo: No, I think PLT Scheme's documentation is perfectly adequate for a production system, from what I have seen. 21:21:36 wingo: I think that there are other Schemes which are used in commercial environments which don't have that level of documentation, and I don't think that's a good thing. 21:21:48 The source is the best documentation, right arcfide? 21:21:58 mejja: Only when you hack MIT Scheme. 21:22:01 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:22:05 ;-) 21:22:33 In fact, I would say the documentation level of some high profile Scheme systems is rather unfortunate. 21:22:39 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 21:23:25 Scheme48 has a nice manual now, but MIT Scheme, Gambit, and Larceny, from what I have seen, don't have what I would call reliable documentation. I've only glanced occassionaly at Larceny though, so I am likely wrong on that front. 21:23:52 Gambit's documentation is reliable, but incompletel. 21:24:29 For me, reliable means complete enough that I should feel comfortable going to it for the vast majority of questions I may have regarding the use of its features. 21:24:42 Okay, Humpty. 21:24:55 *arcfide* shrugs. 21:25:11 Is that too much to ask? :-) 21:25:34 I think there are plenty enough Schemes that do deliver that level of documentation, that we don't need to feel compelled to use the others. ;-) 21:25:35 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:55 Though I have felt strong urges in the past to go on a "Documentation Spree" for MIT Scheme. 21:26:11 mejja: :) 21:26:37 arcfide, how frequently do you use MIT Scheme? 21:26:48 kilimanjaro: I used to use it much more than I do now. 21:27:08 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 21:27:13 I haven't used it in quite some time, maybe even a year or more. 21:27:31 I used it a bit but never got too excited about it, although I did have some enthusiasm that Riastradh was doing overhauls 21:27:53 But I'm in the same camp, I haven't used it in quite a while 21:28:01 MIT Scheme has plenty of warts, but that's nothing new with many Scheme implementations. 21:28:17 MIT Scheme can brag about having some of the oldest warts 21:28:41 kilimanjaro: Besides, people might decide to flog me for using MIT Scheme if I mentioned that where I currently do my work. 21:29:01 Do you work with schemers? 21:29:07 kilimanjaro: I'm at IU. 21:29:11 ohh, haha 21:29:12 kilimanjaro: Indiana University. 21:29:24 Do you get a free license? 21:29:30 kilimanjaro: People here use Ikarus, Chez, and PLT. 21:29:46 kilimanjaro: Yes, but I had a number of licenses before coming here. 21:29:50 I know Chez came out of IU 21:30:07 how many non-academic schemes are there in wide use? chicken, guile, ... ? 21:30:08 I also do commercial or non-academic work in Chez, and those licenses don't come for free, even here. 21:30:20 wingo: What do you call a non-academic Scheme? 21:30:32 Most of the good Scheme implementations I know of are associated with research of some sort or another. 21:30:32 arcfide, just curious, how would you describe the relationship the PL group at IU has with the rest of the CS dept? 21:30:39 a scheme that has no one working on it that is on university payroll 21:31:31 wingo: Wasn't Guile motivated by academics as well? I don't know about Chicken. 21:32:05 wingo, most schemes are open source 21:32:13 kilimanjaro: *shrug* How would I answer that? Most of the people around here have their own ideas of how things should go, but most of them have more PL to them than I've seen at other places. 21:32:28 Even the systems folks favor more PL approaches many times. 21:32:42 On the other hand, there is a strong informatics group that loves Java. ;-) 21:32:47 arcfide, yea, I was sort of wondering of the culture, since I have never really been around a dept that had a heavy PL emphasis 21:32:52 arcfide: Guile has never had academics working on it, to my knowledge 21:33:20 Indiana has /two/ Schemes. Notable. 21:33:24 wingo: I think I would call Stallman an academic in the past, and I thought he supported or did some work related to Guile back when it was first coming in, no? 21:33:25 indeed 21:33:30 Daemmerung: two good schemes, at that 21:33:45 i guess northeastern has larceny and plt 21:34:00 wingo: Oh, true 21:34:03 arcfide: stallman never hacked guile, and the last time he was an academic was in the 70s 21:34:11 But PLT transcends NErn 21:34:18 indeed 21:34:24 PLT transcends . . . never mind. 21:34:31 PLT transcends almost everything 21:34:34 Chicago, Utah, elsewhere. No longer Rice I think 21:34:41 plt transcends a lot of stuff, it's true 21:34:44 man, i wish i understood delimited continuations 21:34:51 except DrScheme, they still haven't been able to transcend that 21:34:55 hehe 21:35:48 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-106-80.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 21:35:51 arcfide, are you a graduate student? 21:36:30 bytecolor [n=user@32.152.158.243] has joined #scheme 21:36:34 kilimanjaro: Yes. 21:37:03 What sort of stuff are you working on? 21:38:13 Education, teaching, Scheme, packaging, libraries, AI-related code translation and analysis, functional web programming, ... take your pick. 21:39:09 Much of my work is motivated by my commercial or non-academic projects in which I use Scheme. 21:39:09 oh, no, you pick first 21:39:11 :) 21:40:00 Right now I'm just clearing out some course requirements, but last semester I was doing a generic one-way translation framework and a portable sockets library. 21:40:13 Cool 21:40:27 Before that I did the initial grunt work on Descot (metadata for Scheme libraries and the associated infrastructure to make it work). 21:41:02 are you an r6rs believer, arcfide 21:41:06 Hah! 21:42:20 I believe R6RS is full of compromises and problems, but I also believe that, having used it for a while, it is far less onerous in actual programming work that I do than its theoretical problems suggest. In other words, I sure hope someone fixes it, but I'm okay with using it for right now. 21:42:34 yeah i can understand that position. 21:43:11 I'm actually working on a number of SRFIs to address a few things that I'd like to see widely implemented. 21:43:15 dybvig probably reached a similar conclusion 21:43:28 *wingo* really respects dybvig's work. 21:43:37 I think Kent was in a hard position. :-) 21:44:39 Schemer's won't be satisfied. I'm not saying it isn't worth trying to do it right, just that no matter what you are going to do it wrong. 21:44:54 -!- bzzbzz_ [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:11 yeah we're getting funny backlash at guile 2.0, c.f. s7 21:45:16 it's amusing 21:45:31 wingo: How is Guile coming along? Are we into the previous decade? 21:45:36 hehe 21:45:45 we are firmly into the naughties! 21:45:55 i'm about to merge a proper dynamic ffi 21:46:30 and with that, we won't lack in features, besides r6rs/letrec* and delimited continuations 21:46:31 I'm sort of considering trying to do a master's in CS after a 3 year vacation into mathematics 21:46:51 wingo: So macros work correctly and it has a module system that makes sense and it's...like, um, ya know, clean? 21:46:55 yeppers 21:46:58 wingo: http://blogs.sun.com/jag/resource/StandardsPhases.html 21:47:21 wingo: Cool. 21:47:24 I used to be fascinated by PL theory but I think it would be difficult to get that sort of excitement again 21:47:34 I'm not really a PL guy. :-) 21:48:15 A lot of the PLers here are big type theorists. 21:48:41 I know of at least two very strong type oriented Professors here. 21:48:51 with a capital p 21:49:34 I'd imagine that's probably the case in general. Or at least, for some reason things like logic have been mostly purged from mathematics departments, leaving CS and philosophy people to carry the flag 21:50:28 "a drawn out period of chaotic bargaining and soul searching" <- post-r5rs... 21:51:47 or even perhaps that's optimistic, in light of the argument's conclusion 21:52:03 r6rs certainly wasn't understood when it was adopted, afaict 21:52:04 -!- attila_lendvai_ [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:57:10 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57:10 -!- arcfide [i=arcfide@140-182-145-188.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 21:58:44 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 21:59:34 Sergio`__ [n=Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 22:01:05 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:03:10 -!- Simon14 [i=8e192808@gateway/web/freenode/x-blzesfhlhupdjurq] has quit ["Page closed"] 22:08:32 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha2.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:09:30 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-186-152.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:11:12 *wingo* finished guile low-level dynamic ffi, yay 22:15:05 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-27-47.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:16:12 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-27-47.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:19:03 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [] 22:35:02 -!- elderK [n=zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [] 22:37:52 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 22:47:15 bytecolo` [n=user@32.158.159.93] has joined #scheme 22:47:45 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.152.158.243] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 22:47:50 -!- bytecolo` is now known as bytecolor 22:50:08 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.197.90] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:52:24 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:52:24 -!- ironChicken [n=nrichard@mx.lurk.org] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:52:24 -!- ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:52:24 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [jordan.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 22:52:53 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-106-80.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:00:46 ironChicken [n=nnrichar@mx.lurk.org] has joined #scheme 23:01:12 wingo: Congrats! I look forward to playing with it. (I had something I was going to link with...I'm sure it'll come back to me. :-P) 23:02:01 I remember now. 23:02:02 jao: I see that you moved Geiser from github to gitorious. What prompted that change? 23:02:43 There was this dude who made MPFR bindings for Guile, then one day he said "$*@& Guile, I'm moving to PLT, and I don't want anyone else using my work on Guile either", and deleted his bindings. 23:02:52 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:53 I always thought that was a douchey thing to do. 23:03:07 Anyway, I could use the new FFI to make a new binding for MPFR. :-P 23:03:30 Only, I'd try to make it integrate well with the GMP stuff that Guile has in later versions. 23:03:53 Daemmerung: 'jao' was taken in github, and i like the fact that gitorious code is open 23:05:49 cky: are you talking about marco maggi? 23:06:42 ah yes, it would be nice to have MP math in guile itself 23:08:20 wingo: I can't remember the name, but I think so. Lemme check. 23:10:14 wingo: Yes, Marco Maggi. You have a good memory! 23:10:45 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 23:11:48 cky: well it was a douchey thing to do ;) 23:12:13 Hehehehe. :-) 23:28:23 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 23:32:21 mbohun [n=mbohun@202.124.73.106] has joined #scheme 23:33:11 copumpkin [n=copumpki@dhcp-212-196.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 23:48:46 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:49:00 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 23:51:49 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-236-180-142.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]