00:01:19 The question being asked here seems to be "How can i describe the 'set' data type in an english sentence" 00:01:37 rather than "how can I implement a set in scheme" am i right? 00:03:03 an unordered homogenous mutually exclusive box of thingies ;) 00:03:53 SharkBrain, 00:03:54 yes 00:04:16 homogenous or heterogeneous 00:04:21 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p4FC5B20C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:04:29 A set is a collection of unique entities. 00:04:47 because (#t ,1 , 2 ,3 , "sd") is a set 00:05:07 a set either contains an item or doesn't (contains? set v), adding a value to a set makes a new set that *does* contain that value (contains? v (add-to-set s v)) => true 00:05:40 surely even in english you would just describe it by its interface 00:05:47 and then its utility 00:05:52 bytecolo` [n=user@32.154.62.56] has joined #scheme 00:06:26 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.158.55.51] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:06:46 -!- bytecolo` is now known as bytecolor 00:07:07 dsmith [n=dsmith@66.178.229.162] has joined #scheme 00:07:34 I should really learn how to use irc one of these days, I know like 3 commands ;) 00:07:48 learning is bad 00:08:38 identify ghost nick and me... ok I know 4 00:08:56 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 00:13:29 -!- Daemmeru` is now known as Daemmerung 00:14:48 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-29-94.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:21:57 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 00:22:20 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:22:39 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Client Quit] 00:25:36 hey 00:25:49 how can i measure a running time in drscheme 00:25:54 are there any function 00:26:09 l,ike runningtime-measure 00:26:27 i have to check function works in logn n^2logn ,n 00:26:31 (time expr) 00:27:26 okey it gives something 00:28:04 but i ask is there a way to understand function work on n,logn or something like that may be if i define what is log(n) 00:28:09 it gives me something :D 00:28:26 (define (setV-contains? set val) 00:28:26 (or (eq? ( set) val) 00:28:26 (set-contains? (rest set) val)) 00:28:29 oops 00:28:31 sorry 00:28:43 http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/time.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._time-apply)) 00:28:59 :D 00:29:12 *SharkBrain* is awesome despite what his detractors would tell you 00:30:20 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-vfxtugqdndzelvkk] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 00:30:24 "The shark brain has long been impugned as being tiny, simple, and relatively unimportant." 00:31:14 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:32:13 -!- Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-52-82-65-122-116.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:32:57 damn you detracopedia! 00:35:23 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@66.178.229.162] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:35:39 Nshag [n=shag@lns-bzn-43-82-249-156-106.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 00:40:16 hey 00:40:39 how can i tell with sentence what vector is on scheme 00:46:21 -!- KirarinSnow [n=ksno@adsl-99-74-82-28.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:50:00 -!- gabot [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:50:07 gabot [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 00:51:08 a vector is an ordered collection of scheme values where lookup is constant time (I think ...) 00:52:10 "A vector is a fixed-length array with constant-time access and update of the vector slots, which are numbered from 0 to one less than the number of slots in the vector." 00:52:17 from the plt docs 00:53:28 http://schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_sec_6.3.6 or 00:53:30 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ygxkc7e 00:53:53 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:55:32 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 01:00:21 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@211.151.251.254] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:01:07 thanks 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http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel5%2F32%2F35928%2F01702940.pdf%3Farnumber%3D1702940&authDecision=-203 09:10:40 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ybtthey 09:13:06 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:17:22 -!- wingo [n=wingo@33.Red-81-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:21:07 does anyone here know of a good way to create a list of integers 1 to n in a random order? 09:22:03 Use iota to create a list of integers in order, then sort them on a hash of the integer, is the quick way 09:22:50 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@163.16.211.21] has quit ["Coyote finally caught me"] 09:22:55 There's also a shuffe algorithm... IIRC you put 1..N into a vector then, for i=0..N-1, swap(vector[i],vector[random number from i+1 to N-1]) 09:23:12 No, make that i to N-1 09:23:20 Otherwise you never get i in slot i, which would bias it 09:23:25 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 09:23:31 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 09:26:36 incubot: i've spent the last several years trying to convince myself that TAOCP doesn't matter; that CLRS sufficeth. it's patently false, though. 09:26:40 No, pjb, that is patently false. The store is just another mathematical variable which is updated to model mutation without any sort of 'primitive' mutation. 09:29:56 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 09:40:52 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-208-166.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:47:37 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 09:54:50 FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 09:55:11 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-29-94.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:55:54 masm [n=masm@bl7-204-89.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 10:08:24 Daemmeru` [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers_ [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:10:29 marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has joined #scheme 10:11:55 -!- jao [n=jao@61.Red-88-16-207.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:13:33 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-94-44-21-216.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:15:10 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:15:20 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 10:16:04 cky_ [n=cky@h-98-105-40-158.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 10:16:31 _nofear [n=maxwell@189.115.2.250] has joined #scheme 10:17:31 schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 10:21:55 -!- cky [n=cky@h-166-166-108-224.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:22:22 cky [n=cky@h-98-133-134-62.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 10:31:58 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:32:14 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 10:32:53 cky__ [n=cky@h-166-165-170-163.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 10:33:52 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-212-110.vodafone.hu] has joined #scheme 10:33:58 -!- cky [n=cky@h-98-133-134-62.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:35:53 -!- cky_ [n=cky@h-98-105-40-158.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:43:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:43:39 cky [n=cky@h-166-166-97-249.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 10:43:46 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 10:50:13 cky_ [n=cky@h-98-105-21-39.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 10:52:26 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 10:52:37 -!- devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-147.greentreefrog.net.au] has quit [] 10:55:45 -!- cky__ [n=cky@h-166-165-170-163.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:56:11 cky__ [n=cky@h-166-165-181-254.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 10:58:36 mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 10:58:38 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:04:29 -!- cky [n=cky@h-166-166-97-249.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:04:55 -!- cky_ [n=cky@h-98-105-21-39.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:07:07 -!- cky__ [n=cky@h-166-165-181-254.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:08:30 -!- schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:09:34 cky [n=cky@h-166-165-76-136.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 11:15:00 foof: ping 11:15:28 cky_ [n=cky@h-166-165-76-136.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 11:16:33 rudybot: later tell foof which of loopy-loop or fast-loop most resembles foof-loop; or is it worthwhile to port the foof-loop egg to chicken 4? 11:16:33 minion: memo for foof: klutometis told me to tell you: which of loopy-loop or fast-loop most resembles foof-loop; or is it worthwhile to port the foof-loop egg to chicken 4? 11:16:34 Remembered. I'll tell foof when he/she/it next speaks. 11:17:10 lol 11:18:21 Lovely, it's the beginning of a bot chain: that has wonderful potential for spam. 11:18:27 -!- Daemmeru` [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:20:33 xwl [n=user@123.115.121.58] has joined #scheme 11:21:13 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-212-110.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:22:50 Obfuscate: as long as there's a reasonable base case, recursive botting isn't too bad 11:23:31 v. the third law of #scheme convodynmaics, though: http://community.schemewiki.org/?%23scheme-on-freenode 11:24:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:24:40 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 11:25:31 schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 11:26:30 <_nofear> is there any scheme implementation like SISC but Python-based? 11:27:22 Not that I know. 11:30:28 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-212-110.vodafone.hu] has joined #scheme 11:30:42 <_nofear> oh ok, thanks, will make some more tests with pyffi then. 11:30:47 _nofear: http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dyoo/python/pyscheme/ 11:31:51 <_nofear> klutometis: thanks, I'll take a good look at it. 11:32:03 -!- xwl [n=user@123.115.121.58] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:32:44 Beware that: "There are a few oddities and bugs with the code that are commented in scheme.py. I certainly don't mean for this to be useful or anything!" 11:32:46 xwl [n=user@123.115.121.58] has joined #scheme 11:34:12 There's a good chance toy implementations of scheme exist for whatever language... 11:36:57 <_nofear> mario-goulart: most probably, I guess for my purposes pyffi should do the trick 11:38:21 -!- cky [n=cky@h-166-165-76-136.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:41:17 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 11:49:12 -!- cky_ [n=cky@h-166-165-76-136.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:51:43 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:53:00 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:53:53 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 11:59:26 sjamaan: have you ever used the test egg with multiple values, btw? 11:59:43 (test (values 1 2) (values 1 3)) passes, by the way, since it only checks the first value 11:59:48 can that be considered a bug? 11:59:59 No, it's not a bug 12:00:04 Possibly a missing feature :) 12:00:20 ok; so you have to decompose the values beforehand, and test them separately then? 12:00:26 It's a feature of _chicken_ that single-value continuations can accept multiple values; the first is used and the rest are discarded 12:00:38 right 12:00:39 I'd just receive it into a list and test that list 12:00:55 (test '(1 2) (receive x (values 1 2) x) 12:01:05 Or something equivalent using call-with-values 12:01:14 sjamaan: by the way, i ported foof-loop to chicken 4, and am currently writing a more-or-less comprehensive test suite 12:01:22 nice 12:01:23 would you mind taking a look at the patch when i'm done? 12:01:41 I'm not familiar with the foof-loop code, so I'm not sure how helpful my comments will be 12:02:06 But I can try :) 12:02:13 maybe an informal perusal of the test suite will give you an idea of how successful the port was 12:02:15 Belaf1 [n=campedel@net-93-144-251-234.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 12:02:28 -!- Belaf [n=campedel@net-93-144-17-71.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:07:57 lisppaste: url 12:07:58 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 12:11:17 klutometis pasted "test-values" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/93326 12:11:41 sjamaan: do you think that implementation of test-values might be sufficiently general to warrant inclusion in the test egg? 12:12:56 klutometis: If you want to include it in the test egg, perhaps it's better to make the regular macros accept multiple-values 12:13:58 that occurred to me, too; that fix is less trivial, of course 12:14:04 maybe i'll give that a crack after foof-loop 12:14:07 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-148-233.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:16:00 davazp [n=user@205.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:22:38 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-212-110.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:32:04 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 12:39:44 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit ["Client Quit"] 12:42:25 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:42:55 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 12:47:37 marijn_ [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has joined #scheme 12:48:34 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:56:39 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 12:56:45 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-188-205.vodafone.hu] has joined #scheme 12:57:00 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 12:59:32 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Operation timed out] 13:00:48 klutometis: fast-loop is closest to foof-loop 13:00:49 foof, memo from rudybot: klutometis told me to tell you: which of loopy-loop or fast-loop most resembles foof-loop; or is it worthwhile to port the foof-loop egg to chicken 4? 13:07:21 Dawgmatix_ [n=dman@c-76-124-8-39.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:14:14 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 13:16:46 -!- xwl [n=user@123.115.121.58] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:18:02 -!- mmc1 [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 13:20:07 Edico_ [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 13:27:40 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 13:28:30 nutmegmagi [n=swalters@pool-71-101-160-3.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 13:29:09 mmc1 [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 13:32:47 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:34:53 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:36:10 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:39:49 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has joined #scheme 13:46:27 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:51:19 Jafet1 [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 13:51:54 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 13:51:56 -!- Jafet1 is now known as Jafet 13:53:35 foof: any objection to generalizing test, by the way, to accomodate multiple values? 13:54:02 sjamaan seemed to prefer that to a specialized test-values form 13:59:18 -!- marijn_ [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:59:36 marijn_ [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has joined #scheme 14:01:56 oh, yay, MV ruins the day again :( 14:02:05 sure, might as well generalize it 14:03:04 foof: ? 14:06:07 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:10:04 What's MV, foof? 14:10:11 Multiple Values? 14:11:33 MiniVan! 14:11:57 :-) 14:16:03 marijn__ [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has joined #scheme 14:17:45 cky [n=cky@h-98-105-38-35.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 14:19:10 -!- uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit ["leaving"] 14:20:07 -!- marijn_ [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:24:36 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 14:25:25 krat3r [n=krat@bl14-211-174.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 14:28:07 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-89-223-188-205.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:32:01 attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-94-44-22-93.vodafone.hu] has joined #scheme 14:38:10 -!- krat3r [n=krat@bl14-211-174.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:39:52 copumpkin [n=copumpki@dhcp-212-196.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 14:40:45 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@dhcp-212-196.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45:51 -!- samth_away is now known as samth 14:48:15 live4thee [n=user@60.63.101.168] has joined #scheme 14:48:37 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@apn-94-44-22-93.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:53:37 -!- live4thee [n=user@60.63.101.168] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:56:41 uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 15:05:38 copumpkin [n=copumpki@dhcp-212-196.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 15:18:16 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 15:22:06 blackened`_ [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 15:22:44 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:23:44 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:24:21 -!- marijn__ [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:28:13 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:30:06 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has joined #scheme 15:31:13 Curious http://www.catonmat.net/blog/using-fibonacci-numbers-to-convert-from-miles-to-kilometers 15:31:15 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yagu7cq 15:34:01 sjamaan: not sure how I feel about that article. it seems like an attempt to make the fact that the successive ratios converge to phi more interesting, but is really a lot less practical than just multiplying by 1.6 15:34:33 Yeah 15:36:22 like it says in the end 15:36:38 It's just a fun factoid 15:36:56 Like checking prime numbers with a regex 15:36:56 but I guess if nothing else it's a good hook to get more people interested in math 15:42:58 HG` [n=HG@xdslec216.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 15:44:43 I think the most interesting thing about fibonacci numbers is that the most obvious way to compute them takes hours to compute (fib 50) 15:45:01 whereas the slightly less obvious way can do (fib 100000) in under a second 15:45:16 That's like saying permutation sort is the most obvious sorting algorithm 15:45:30 Prime strings aren't regular, anyhow 15:45:38 Unless you use perl's irregular expressions 15:45:47 yeah, I hate the term regex for those things 15:46:58 Jafet: you don't think the most intuitively obvious way to calculate fibonacci numbers is (define (fib n) (cond ((= n 0) 0) ((= n 1) 1) (else (+ (fib (- n 1)) (fib (- n 2))))) ? 15:47:07 Jafet: that comes directly from the definition 15:47:33 (I may have missed some parentheses there sry I'm a scheme noob) 15:47:43 A person evaluates that procedure in a linear number of iterations, anyway. 15:48:38 also interesting is that there is a Theta(log(n)) algorithm 15:48:39 I think the most obvious way is fix((0:).scanl(+)1), duh 15:48:46 I never knew that, nor would have expected it, until I read SICP 15:49:14 That's a hook to get you into generatingfunctionology and seriesaccelerationology 15:49:27 I may have made one of those up. 15:49:44 Jafet: I don't know what those terms mean 15:50:48 -!- ASau`` [n=user@77.246.231.66] has quit ["off"] 15:51:27 Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-208-166.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 15:51:32 copumpkin's code is what I'd consider a direct translation of the definition. 15:51:57 I don't know what copumpkin's code means either 15:52:04 -!- Belaf1 [n=campedel@net-93-144-251-234.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has left #scheme 15:52:05 I don't even know what programming language that is 15:52:26 you were in its channel the other day :) 15:53:27 hmm, well it's not C++, C, C#, and apparently not Scheme 15:53:31 that only leaves one choice :) 15:53:57 the unspeakable language! 15:54:18 Belaf [n=campedel@net-93-144-251-234.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 15:54:35 copumpkin: could you give a translation of that code into one of those four languages? I'm curious what it means 15:55:33 It's an infinite list of the fibonacci numbers. 15:55:45 You can do that with that streams srfi, I guess 15:55:56 But you'll have to write fix, and scanl... 15:55:56 formatted to look as terse as possible (I normally wouldn't write it like that) 15:56:29 yeah, and I wouldn't even try translating it nicely to C++, C or C# 16:08:32 rudybot, eval (define (fix f) (delay (f (fix f)))) 16:08:32 Jafet: your sandbox is ready 16:08:48 rudybot, eval (define (scanl op init stream) (delay (cons init (if (null? (force stream)) '() (delay (scanl op (op init (car (force stream))) (cdr (force stream)))))))) 16:09:10 lol 16:10:02 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:10:32 rudybot, eval (define (take n stream) (if (or (null? stream) (= n 0)) '() (cons (car (force stream)) (take (- n 1) (cdr (force stream)))))) 16:11:13 is it still there :) 16:12:03 Wait, I found a bug 16:17:25 sjamaan: is chicken-hackers a reasonable place to submit the patch; or should i do something else with it? 16:20:28 klutometis: either that or put it on trac 16:20:50 if you do have an account 16:21:08 if not just mail it to chicken-hackers 16:28:26 C-Keen: oh, nice; trac is up. i swear every time i go there it seems to be down. 16:28:56 copumpkin, finally got it to work, but it stack overflows 16:29:02 Jafet: aw sad 16:31:51 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslec216.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:32:00 rudybot, eval (take 10 (fix (lambda (l) (cons 0 (scanl + 1 l))))) 16:32:00 Jafet: ; Value: (0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34) 16:32:12 nice 16:32:15 rudybot, eval (take 50 (fix (lambda (l) (cons 0 (scanl + 1 l))))) 16:32:15 Jafet: ; Value: (0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465 14930352 24157817 39088169 63245986 102334155 165580141 267914296 433494437 701408733 1134903170 1836311903 2971215073 4807526976 7778742049) 16:32:21 Oh, doesn't overflow here. 16:32:51 Which implementation was overflowing for you? PLT? 16:32:59 guile 16:33:18 Well, that would be your difference then. rudybot is PLT. 16:34:37 I wonder what Greenspun might have to say about this 16:35:52 Jafet: the question is also what greenspAn would have to say, apparently; check it out: http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=scanl+scheme&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 16:35:55 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ydue84x 16:36:16 searching for scheme scanl results in aig, goldman sachs, and bernie madoff 16:36:24 damn google's new fuzzy search 16:40:51 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 16:42:54 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-208-166.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:30 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-161-187.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:59:04 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:59:13 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 17:02:33 uman_ [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 17:07:34 -!- uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:13:52 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has quit ["leaving"] 17:14:14 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 17:16:42 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 17:23:00 nod, I was just performing a search for 'attribute grammars with scheme' and got all sorts of off-topic crap. Too bad Steele and Sussman could not see into the future and name it ischeme ;) 17:28:13 even if they did that, Google would just autocorrect it to scheme for you 17:28:29 Or they'd decide that you really didn't need that word in your query, so they'd helpfully ignore it for you. 17:28:49 heh 17:29:46 -!- mmc1 [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:30:01 In short, unless you're searching for something that will lead to lucrative AdWords placement, they don't want you to find it. 17:30:10 hrm 'chandler', that was the name of the project in the book 'dreaming in code', I think. Pretty good read. 17:34:13 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 111 (Connection refused)] 17:35:49 Who is rudybot's operator? I have a request: have rudybot's tinyurl response either send to channel (as it's currently sending a privmsg per user) or disabled. 17:36:48 marijn [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has joined #scheme 17:37:58 The tinyurl response is sent in a NOTICE, not a PRIVMSG. 17:37:59 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 17:38:05 offby1 is rudybot's owner. 17:38:09 -!- uman_ [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:39:09 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 17:39:26 Ah, good point. I'll check my client's handling of that then... I just hadn't noticed the behavior with any bots previously. 17:41:12 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:43:21 visof [n=visof@41.238.235.9] has joined #scheme 17:43:41 -!- visof [n=visof@41.238.235.9] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:43:59 -!- nothingHappens [n=nothingh@173-31-122-80.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:44:04 -!- jimrees [n=jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:44:27 visof [n=visof@41.238.235.9] has joined #scheme 17:46:23 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:46:32 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:48:07 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:48:58 chandler: Thanks. It's a failure in my current version of weechat, which is treating channel notices as user privmsgs. 17:49:33 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:54:00 Gaah! Freenode is changing irc servers. 17:55:12 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has joined #scheme 17:56:08 plaes [n=plaes@ns.store20.com] has joined #scheme 17:56:51 offby1, say what now? 17:56:52 hey, does anyone know online scheme interpreter that I could use on my browser? 17:57:15 plaes, there are any number of those. 17:57:17 ..and doesn't require java :P 17:57:36 rudybot, eval (+ 1 2) 17:57:37 gnomon: your sandbox is ready 17:57:37 gnomon: ; Value: 3 17:57:56 ahh.. googling gave me http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ji9m/ask_reddit_what_online_interpreters_repls_are/ ;) 17:57:58 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/pogugh 17:59:03 saccade_ [n=saccade@216.84.35.66] has joined #scheme 18:00:01 offby1, oooh, ircd-seven includes SSL logins. Yay! 18:00:05 gnomon: http://announce.freenode.net/ 18:00:09 offby1, why the horror? 18:00:22 nothingHappens [n=nothingh@173-31-122-80.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 18:07:48 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:10:02 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:10:56 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:16:13 Probably dreading rudybot maintenance. 18:16:32 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:17:24 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:18:06 pbusser [n=pbusser@82.174.238.138] has joined #scheme 18:22:43 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:25:24 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@216.84.35.66] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:26:30 -!- Obfuscate [n=keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["Buggy IRC client upgrade in progress."] 18:27:55 lolcow [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 18:27:57 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:29:31 -!- lolcow [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 18:30:17 mathk_ [n=mathk@lns-bzn-40-82-251-175-141.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 18:35:36 -!- plaes [n=plaes@ns.store20.com] has left #scheme 18:38:33 Obfuscate [n=keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 18:44:25 rdd [n=user@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 18:46:09 -!- mathk [n=mathk@lns-bzn-30-82-253-136-3.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:46:09 -!- mathk_ is now known as mathk 18:47:44 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:48:15 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 18:50:56 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-pwlfwjvymjuramte] has joined #scheme 18:51:14 wingo [n=wingo@33.Red-81-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:52:06 -!- Obfuscate [n=keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:56:30 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-96-235-4-67.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:59:27 Obfuscate [n=keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:04:59 mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:08:28 bipt [i=bpt@cpe-075-182-095-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:08:45 -!- Obfuscate [n=keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["A poorly written script will replace me shortly."] 19:08:50 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:08:51 Obfuscate [n=keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 19:12:57 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-29-94.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:19:47 -!- marcoecc [i=me@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9C9AAE7F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:20:26 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:29:23 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 19:29:56 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@82.174.238.138] has quit ["Client Quit"] 19:34:49 Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 19:35:28 -!- Sergio`_ [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:35:40 Prael [n=martin@2607:f2f8:4880:0:0:0:0:2] has joined #scheme 19:45:52 -!- Sergio` [n=Sergio`@a89-152-187-193.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:45:56 -!- _nofear [n=maxwell@189.115.2.250] has quit ["Leaving."] 19:52:44 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 19:54:18 jao [n=jao@232.Red-83-50-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:57:18 Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-208-29.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 19:57:48 does anyone here know of a good way to create a list of integers 1 to n in a random order? 19:58:53 (lambda (n) (shuffle (iota 1 n)) ? 19:58:58 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 19:59:05 -1s/ \?/) ?/ 20:01:59 Mikaeel_Mohamed, you could do worse than reading http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/shuffle.scm for a start. 20:02:00 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:03:36 eclugtesting [n=mona@212.33.202.123] has joined #scheme 20:04:51 seamus_android [n=scratch@host86-181-252-145.range86-181.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 20:04:54 -!- eclugtesting [n=mona@212.33.202.123] has left #scheme 20:05:33 Hmm. That looks quite handy. 20:05:54 ... yeah damn that really helps. thanks a lot 20:06:20 Thank Riastradh, he wrote it; but you're welcome! 20:13:34 -!- Prael [n=martin@2607:f2f8:4880:0:0:0:0:2] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:25:23 snearch_ [n=olaf@g225053063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 20:27:38 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-254-178.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 20:31:45 -!- seamus_android [n=scratch@host86-181-252-145.range86-181.btcentralplus.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:32:00 Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:44:41 hotblack23 [n=jh@p4FC5B9AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:46:16 I suppose I ought to add a note to shuffle.scm stating that I know of no reason to use any list shuffle other than merge-shuffle; binary-shuffle is not guaranteed to terminate, and insertion-shuffle & selection-shuffle run in O(n^2) time in the average case. Binary-shuffle is merely an amusing idea, and insertion-shuffle & selection-shuffle merely extend the analogy with sorting of merge-shuffle. 20:59:57 -!- marijn [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:00:25 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:04:15 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 21:19:48 -!- Zuu [i=zuu@unaffiliated/zuu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:37:56 Riastradh: What's new? 21:37:58 saint_cypher [n=saint_cy@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:38:37 ApeShot [n=user@user-0c8hj06.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #scheme 21:39:12 parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #scheme 21:39:20 Is there something funny going on with PLT Scheme 4.1.3? I can't make the keywords work correctly. 21:39:34 ApeShot: Upgrade! 21:39:38 This is the version installed by default in Jaunty 21:39:52 ApeShot: Upgrade! 21:40:01 mdkess [n=mdkess@CPE00222d162100-CM00222d1620fc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 21:41:04 Ok 21:41:26 schmir` [n=schmir@p54A9216A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:41:47 Hey, I've got this code http://codepad.org/uie6Vj9Z which duplicates the list lst n times (that is, dupe-list 3 '(1 2 3) returns the list (1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3)). I want it to instead return the list ( (1 2 3) (1 2 3) (1 2 3) ), ie. a list of lists - how do I do this? I can't seem to figure it out. 21:42:57 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:43:32 mejja, nothing, apparently. 21:43:46 I suppose the real question is, how can I write a function that given foo, returns a list containing foo. 21:44:03 (define (x foo) (list foo)) 21:44:13 rudybot: eval (begin (define (x foo) (list foo)) (x 5)) 21:44:14 Riastradh: your sandbox is ready 21:44:14 Riastradh: ; Value: (5) 21:45:32 uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 21:46:21 `list' is a function that when given foo returns a list containing foo. Riastradh's `x' function does too, but behaves differently when given more than just one parameter. 21:46:21 If I change my code to do that, I get this on the above input: (shared ((-1- (list 1 2 3))) (list -1- -1- -1-)) 21:46:42 This is what is confusing me. 21:52:19 could someone be so kind as to show me how to write a function that given a list lst, returns the list ((lst)(lst))? 21:52:54 Are you sure that that is what you want? 21:53:02 (define (mdkess lst) (list lst lst)) 21:53:14 That doesn't do what he asked, uman. 21:53:15 ApeShot, what problem are you having? 21:53:16 oops 21:53:18 uman: No; that doesn't return what mdkess asked for, though it might return what he wants. 21:53:27 (define (mdkess lst) (list (list lst) (list lst))) 21:53:35 mdkess: So given the list (1 2 3), it would return (((1 2 3)) ((1 2 3))) ? 21:53:57 -!- schmir` [n=schmir@p54A9216A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:54:34 ...right? 21:54:51 mdkess: Use cons instead of append. 21:55:33 So like, all of these give this "shared" business: (shared ((-2- (list 1 2 3))) (list (list -2-) (list -2-))) 21:55:54 No idea where that comes from :/ 21:56:02 -!- nutmegmagi [n=swalters@pool-71-101-160-3.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:56:05 But if you use cons instead of append, I get your desired result. 21:56:16 I'm using DrScheme/PLT-Scheme - is this perhaps just output strangeness then? 21:56:21 I have a question about school. 21:56:29 Why does every professor feel the need to write their own book? 21:56:40 publish or perish 21:56:43 Because all the other books do it wrong, of course. 21:56:54 mdkess: I cannot reproduce your results. 21:56:56 (ARGH! Focus theft should be a FELONY! Gaargh!) 21:56:56 Riastradh: I think there are plenty of adequate books on Java programming 21:57:04 Riastradh: agree 21:57:24 Riastradh: if I ever learn Haskell I will patch XMonad to prevent it 21:57:32 otoh 21:57:47 "why does every schemer feel the need to write their own implementation?" 21:57:53 :) 21:57:54 :D 21:58:04 I have no idea what I button SPC or RET just selected, but Mac OS X responded by berating me about disconnecting my backup drive without unmounting it (and in the middle of a backup). 21:58:05 Because all the other Schemes do it wrong! DUH!! 21:58:21 Schemer impolementors aren't generally getting kickbacks from the publishing companies, wingo. (Or are they? I might be in the wrong business.) 21:58:48 er, "implementors". How did I get "impolementors"? 21:59:06 impalement, or s? 21:59:07 impolementors should be a word 21:59:36 chandler: M-x flyspell-mode :D 21:59:53 That would cause more harm than it would cure. 21:59:53 Ok 21:59:57 I am using the latest version now 22:00:05 and (define (f x #:y y #:z [z 10]) 22:00:05 (list x y z)) still gives me an error 22:00:13 This is an example right from the manual 22:00:34 lambda~: not an identifier in: #:y 22:00:50 perhaps you don't have the right language 22:00:57 *wingo* knows very little about plt 22:01:01 chandler: Thing is, my professor is giving students here the book for free. So unless they are using it at other universities as well, he isn't making any money 22:01:04 *wingo* also wishes thee were a plt channel 22:01:13 *there 22:01:32 Well, it is set to full swindle 22:01:53 Gee, now the disk is spinning like mad, and Mac OS X doesn't believe it exists: no fsck, no entries in Disk Utility, console messages about not being able to enumerate a USB device, &c. How nice it was for a bloody dialogue box to steal focus. 22:01:53 Why are you using swindle? 22:01:55 Why Swindle? 22:02:38 Well, I am porting some legacy code up from an earlier PLT, and it uses Swindle 22:02:48 *parolang* reads sicp.info 22:02:59 uman: Oh. Well, then perhaps there is too much relevant, correct, up-to-date, and generally useful knowledge in the popular texts. What I've seen of self-published university texts has been generally abominable. 22:03:21 (define (f x #:y y #:z [z 10]) 22:03:21 (list x y z)) 22:03:25 ApeShot: eli would be the droid you're looking for. He'll know if/how/whether Swindle supports keywords. 22:03:38 Hm 22:03:44 Yeah...like those folks at the MIT Press who publish garbage like SICP from some random professor at their own university... 22:03:47 Seems like Swindle has been sort of borked sincce the upgrade to 4 22:03:55 Could be. 22:03:59 ApeShot: IIRC, keywords in swindle behave differently (using common-lispy syntax) 22:04:12 Riastradh: well 22:04:15 Hmm, seems my problems were entirely due to drscheme's output strangeness. 22:04:16 Riastradh: I don't go to MIT :D 22:04:21 Thanks for the help guys :) 22:04:29 chandler, I believe you're invoking Sturgeon's law there. 22:04:39 Yeah 22:04:49 Riastradh: I don't think MIT Press fits the definition of "self-published". 22:04:53 Now I am using just the language R5RS 22:04:56 90% of all aquarium fish are carp 22:04:58 I'm referring to spiral-bound texts produce on a laser printer. 22:05:02 Riastradh: obviously every good textbook was written by some professor somewhere. That doesn't imply that every textbook written by some professor somewhere is good. 22:05:04 But that doesn't seem to work for the manual example either 22:05:06 (Yes, my remark about the MIT Press was facetious.) 22:05:06 I haven't seen one of those yet that was any good, but perhaps I haven't found the 10% yet. 22:05:20 chandler: oh, ours isn't even that. It's available on Google Docs only. 22:05:31 ApeShot: Use "Module." There are no keywords in R5RS. 22:05:46 ApeShot: (define (foo x &key y z) (list y z)) 22:06:21 ApeShot: see http://barzilay.org/Swindle/base-doc.html 22:07:24 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 22:07:43 elderK [n=zk@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #scheme 22:08:16 -!- Obfuscate [n=keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit ["A poorly written script will replace me shortly."] 22:08:19 :) Morning people! 22:08:32 Ugh 22:08:37 "a literal value is one that cannot be changed" 22:08:56 c'est vrai. 'tis true. 22:08:59 Professors should know better than to make slightly inaccurate vague statements like that 22:09:17 is it inaccurate? 22:09:29 wingo: const char foo = 'C'; 22:09:29 imprecise perhaps 22:09:36 wingo: "foo" is constant but not literal; 'C' is a literal 22:09:42 ah, i thought you spoke of scheme 22:09:55 Zuu [i=zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 22:09:56 the value 'C' certainly may not be changed. 22:09:58 -!- ApeShot [n=user@user-0c8hj06.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:10:00 wingo: well, my book is on Java. The preceding was C (maybe valid Java too -- I don't know yet) 22:10:37 A literal value is one that cannot be changed? 22:10:41 That's true in a sense. 22:10:44 Depending on how you spin it. 22:10:46 -!- Zuu [i=zuu@unaffiliated/zuu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:10:48 Zuu [i=zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #scheme 22:11:21 const char foo = 'C'; <--- C is the literal. That isn't changed. The space allocated that stores the value C, maybe changed - if it wasn't marked const. 22:11:32 "literal" means something specific in C-like languages, and what it means is not "can't be changed" 22:11:34 but 'C' is still literal. 22:11:41 I know, uman. 22:11:56 elderK: 'C' is literal there, and also constant. "foo" is a char constant, but not a char literal 22:12:05 Precisely. 22:12:12 foo is the char constant/variable. 22:12:18 char foo2 = 'C'; 22:12:31 SharkBrain [n=gerard@210.48.104.34] has joined #scheme 22:12:34 'C' is still literal, it cannot be changed. foo2's contents/value can be. 22:12:38 but 'C' as the literal, cannot. 22:12:51 Otherwise you'd be able to do something like 21313121 = 3333 22:12:54 or 'C'='Z' 22:13:19 So, the professor is right, as I see it? 22:13:23 elderK: I know that literals cannot be changed. What I'm saying is that that is not the whole definition of literals. 22:13:25 constant/variable makes 0 sense. 22:13:35 in ISU 22:13:43 (international sense units.) 22:13:43 unless I'm wrong too :) or I jumped on the conversation at the wrong time :) 22:13:43 wingo: "variable" doesn't mean the same thing in imperative programming as it does in mathematics 22:14:22 elderK: when the section describing what literals are gives as definition "a literal is a value that cannot be changed", it is stating a true fact about literals, but it is incomplete. 22:14:35 Aye, I'll agree with that, uman. 22:14:44 wingo, you don't need to put units on zero, unless your `units' are actually translated such as `degrees centigrade'. 22:15:02 :) Morning Riastradh 22:15:25 I'm a little nervous atm - about to send an email to a CS advisor, asking some questions regarding their papers. 22:17:22 hmmm. 22:19:05 Obfuscate [n=keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #scheme 22:23:13 -!- bytecolor [n=user@32.154.62.56] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:26:02 -!- Edico_ [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:31:07 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 22:31:48 marijn [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has joined #scheme 22:33:13 -!- mathk [n=mathk@lns-bzn-40-82-251-175-141.adsl.proxad.net] has quit ["..zzZzzZ"] 22:35:47 -!- marijn [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:38:07 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 22:38:38 Riastradh: it's a tribute to the Sense-That-Was 22:50:30 -!- uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:01 -!- snearch_ [n=olaf@g225053063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:04:54 -!- samth is now known as samth_away 23:06:33 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:17:20 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p4FC5B9AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:31:38 marijn [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has joined #scheme 23:31:38 -!- marijn [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:31:54 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 23:32:58 -!- Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 23:35:56 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 23:37:09 -!- visof [n=visof@41.238.235.9] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:29 devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-147.greentreefrog.net.au] has joined #scheme 23:49:35 -!- davazp [n=user@205.Red-83-46-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:51:17 rgrau` [n=user@143.Red-88-11-108.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:52:59 uman [n=uman@unaffiliated/uman] has joined #scheme 23:57:15 alvatar [n=alvatar@183.149.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 23:57:18 hi! 23:57:41 do you know any XML library for scheme gambit, chicken or bigloo? 23:58:32 well actually chicken seems to have many "eggs" 23:58:39 sxml runs on Gambit. Lots of things run on Chicken. 23:59:03 I prefer gambit, I didn't know of sxml, so I'll take a look 23:59:03 thanks