00:01:18 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:05:03 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:05:52 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:17:54 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 00:31:37 incubot: PLEASE NOTE THAT THE DEADLINE IS JANUARY 8 00:31:41 the whole call/cc chapter looks like it was written on a short deadline 00:33:24 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:56:27 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-108-0-53.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:59:32 -!- rgrau` [n=user@14.Red-193-152-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:20:42 borism [n=boris@213-35-234-124-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 01:24:57 -!- nutmegmagi [n=swalters@pool-71-101-160-3.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:28:50 cky_ [n=cky@h-98-105-19-227.ip.alltel.net] has joined #scheme 01:31:57 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:32:04 -!- cky [n=cky@h-166-166-118-251.ip.alltel.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:32:16 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 01:36:11 Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-208-165.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 01:40:57 -!- brx [i=brx@erxz.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:42:12 sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-172-111.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:46:01 grettke [n=grettke@cpe-65-30-16-243.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:47:45 -!- mmc [n=mima@ip565374a2.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:50:54 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 01:52:42 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 01:55:53 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:56:23 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 01:56:24 -!- cky_ is now known as cky 01:57:07 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-170-170.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:57:16 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 01:57:30 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 01:58:24 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]"] 01:59:04 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:59:09 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:00:59 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 02:01:10 i like how "be able to work constructively toward compromise" is part of the scheme standardization charter: i.e. they've already proscribed mediocrity. this should be fun! 02:01:15 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 02:01:37 s/be/[being]/ 02:02:41 You mean "prescribed". 02:03:23 And where does it say that? 02:03:51 If they have proscribed mediocrity, that's a good thing! 02:03:57 Yay for proscribing mediocrity, I say. 02:04:42 Though I'm not sure what sort of math "Down with average" entails. 02:04:55 "We would like a small number of things to be really, really bad!" 02:05:21 mhoye: damnit, you're right; i had prescriptive, and altered it. i had the wrong dichotomy: i was thinking prescriptive/proscriptive; when i should have been thinking: prescriptive/descriptive. 02:05:47 I suppose that's better than the alternative of a large number of really bad things. Hooray for that, I guess. 02:10:22 oh, well; may my catachresis be prophetic, then. 02:11:14 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:11:32 -!- sepult` [n=user@xdsl-87-78-172-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 02:13:29 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-172-111.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:14:15 -!- grettke [n=grettke@cpe-65-30-16-243.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:18:19 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-152-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:32:43 samth_ [n=samth@c-65-96-168-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:36:29 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:42:46 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-172-111.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 02:47:21 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.3.65] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:48:31 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:59:16 *offby1* googles for definitions of prescriptive/descriptive, proscribing, catachresis, and prophetic 03:00:01 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:00:42 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 03:00:44 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz] has quit [] 03:02:43 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-yuwapynjompgscbp] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:02:49 -!- davazp [n=user@95.Red-83-55-182.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:03:55 meric [n=Eric@203-214-150-147.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 03:04:38 saccade_ [n=saccade@c-98-216-70-18.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:23 -!- jetuser [i=jetuser@seraph.rh.rit.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:20:12 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.18.49.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 03:36:34 -!- saint_cypher [n=saint_cy@adsl-99-2-72-93.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:45:14 -!- meric 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dan_ [n=dan@c-67-191-147-106.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:01:22 is there a simple way to strip leading/trailing whitespace from a string in scheme? 06:04:01 also is there a simple way to replace characters in a string like replace all spaces with and "_"? 06:05:04 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-13/srfi-13.html is probably what you want 06:06:12 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@94.162.151.124] has quit [] 06:08:02 dan_: your scheme should have some native regex library that does replacement; which scheme are you using, btw? 06:08:13 tinyscheme 06:09:45 tinyscheme embedded in the gimp to be more precise 06:18:41 see this screw dan_? This screw is you. 06:19:35 meaning with tinyscheme I'm out of luck? 06:20:30 I've had to work with tinyscheme before... not pleasant though. 06:21:37 At the very least it'd be nice if you could get a tinyscheme interpreter over a socket to the GIMP. Then you could use your own scheme for the majority of the logic! 06:23:50 ok. it's not worth it for the task at hand. Thanks for the advice. 06:29:31 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060026bb736c5b.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 06:37:00 synx: at best, "you're screw" ~= "you're screwed" 06:38:28 how about: "see this screw? it shall past-participlize you" 06:39:52 klutometis: well I didn't want to resort to bawdy humor. 06:40:41 participialize* 06:40:51 synx: good call; keep it on the level of cpt. picard 06:48:25 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S01060026bb736c5b.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 06:48:52 I'm a big fan of captain picard. I have a huge collection. 06:50:39 dakeyras [n=dakeyras@pool-98-117-123-121.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 07:00:19 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 07:01:27 elderK [n=zk@125-236-160-103.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:04:39 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 07:08:28 Hey people! 07:11:16 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:12:58 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 07:16:32 hey hey elderK 07:19:35 How's it going, Synx m an? 07:20:46 :D Finally starting to grok  Calculus :D 07:21:17 going pretty good. I messed around with javascript animations, and found out that PLT uses about 183 bytes per structure when I make a struct. 07:21:28 o_O 07:21:36 Yeah, that's pretty uncool. 07:21:52  calculus... dunno what that is. 07:22:09 yeah, I was surprised too... 07:22:17 a scheme programmer who doesn't know what lambda calculus is...? 07:22:21 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/memory-use-thingy.ss 07:22:48 Are you serious? 07:22:50 franki^: people here haven't exactly been eager to explain it. I don't see what  has to do with integrals anyway. 07:23:14 run that program elderK, see how many bytes it prints out. 07:23:26 lambda calculus was actually how i became interested in lisp 07:23:51 huh that's interesting franki^. 07:24:37 I became interested in lisp because I realized that without continuations, CPS code cannot be used except with other code written in CPS. 07:24:43 aka deferreds suck 07:24:58 synx: you should check out the wiki page, it's basically a notational system that was very important in the history of computability and programming, and all that malarky :) 07:26:11 Oh, so it's like simplifying procedures until you can prove which ones are equivalent? 07:27:49 reduction is definitely part of its usefulness 07:28:05 visof [n=visof@41.238.233.218] has joined #scheme 07:38:36 :D Back 07:39:03 Getting your program now, Synx. 07:39:51 nicdev [n=user@dorm-207.subnet-193.amherst.edu] has joined #scheme 07:40:13 -!- nicdev [n=user@dorm-207.subnet-193.amherst.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:40:34 aw, synx, plt only? 07:41:48 uh... yeah 07:42:09 structs are plt-only. 07:42:24 no, they aren't 07:42:25 and I wouldn't dare suggest that two different scheme implementations would have the same memory usage in the same situation. 07:42:30 various implementations provide structures. 07:42:37 oh, really? 07:42:38 aye. 07:42:46 not exactly like PLT, mayhap. 07:42:53 But they certainly have structures and/or records. 07:42:56 Well, only PLT provides module, so you're stuck I'm afraid. 07:42:56 and franki^, cool, man :) 07:43:06 Nuts. 07:43:14 Sorry man, I'd test for you otherwise 07:43:14 :( 07:43:22 I even made hte file "synx.ss" 07:43:23 :) 07:43:24 What scheme are you using? 07:43:30 chicken 07:43:37 oh, hm... 07:44:11 mmc [n=mima@ip565374a2.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #scheme 07:44:56 far as I know chicken doesn't have any way to manage memory, or track memory usage, or anything like that... 07:45:22 oh, no (memory-statistics) 07:45:25 it does 07:45:30 afaik 07:45:38 in any case, I generally dance from various implementations :) 07:45:41 i have Guile here too. 07:45:42 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-82-46.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:45:47 http://chicken.wiki.br/man/4/Unit%20library#memory-statistics 07:45:51 Not installed right now though, I use PLT sometimes, tool 07:46:00 Use that to measure how much memory before and after creating a bunch of structs. 07:46:01 But, It's not here, presently. 08:09:57 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:18:01 dun' worry about it really. It's a pretty ordinary program anyway. Just substitute other stuff for your particular scheme. 08:24:20 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-208-165.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:31:25 -!- mmc [n=mima@ip565374a2.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:41:54 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 08:42:54 visof_ [n=visof@41.238.232.20] has joined #scheme 08:45:34 -!- visof [n=visof@41.238.233.218] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:51:54 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 09:10:59 incubot: (memory-statistics) 09:10:59 #(500000 360084 131072) 09:13:53 -!- visof_ [n=visof@41.238.232.20] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:14:29 -!- nutmegmagi [n=swalters@static-72-91-30-19.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:14:57 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [] 09:15:45 ecomba [n=ecomba@host86-177-103-105.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 09:18:17 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:18:24 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 09:30:23 nutmegmagi [n=swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 09:32:55 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 09:35:04 -!- meric [n=Eric@203-214-149-85.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:35:18 -!- borism [n=boris@213-35-234-124-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 09:35:25 meric [n=Eric@203-158-40-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 09:35:50 borism [n=boris@213-35-233-3-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 09:46:50 incubot: christ; my paper deadline is soon, and i'm making all sorts of bizarre, caffeine-induced claims that will surely haunt me 09:46:55 why will it haunt you? 09:47:30 that's a good long-term plan, klutometis 09:47:51 for example 09:48:01 incubot: because reviewers, if so disposed (or undisposed), will hang you on trivia 09:48:01 Error: unbound variable: because 09:48:07 damnit 09:48:09 elly: how's that? 09:48:14 three and a half hours ago, I decided to tell one of my friends that she 'is standing in a dusty village square, next to a dried-up fountain' 09:48:50 three and a half hours after that, she has killed a dire wolf, found a pet, and is on the trail of a mass murderer after investigating a mysteriously deserted village 09:48:53 :) Hey klutometis, elly :) 09:48:58 and I didn't get ANY work done tonight. 09:49:46 elly: an unprogrammed adventure game? :P 09:49:56 yes 09:50:02 I was making it up as I went 09:52:01 elly: nice; those are the best kinds of games. i take it you weren't overwhelmed by the open parameters? 09:52:11 no 09:52:32 the person I was playing with is a freeform-roleplay kind of person, so 09:53:22 when I decided to do it, I actually did it with five people and one IRC channel at the same time 09:53:27 the IRC channel died first :P 09:53:32 and three of the five people are dead as well 09:53:50 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-29-94.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 09:54:11 that's great; long-live caffeine-induced creativity! for a second there, i thought you were going to tell me she was in fallujah 09:54:47 no :P not at all 09:54:59 she is in a dusty town by the sea 09:55:11 and yes, caffeine-induced creaetivity 09:55:21 I am just about to finish this bottle of diet coke 09:55:24 it's nearly 0500 local time 09:55:35 hi elderK :) 09:57:22 klutometis: what's your paper about? 09:59:20 ^_^ 10:03:46 _nofear [n=maxwell@189.115.12.187] has joined #scheme 10:04:45 elly: ah, the old diet crack 10:04:52 absolutely 10:05:08 *elly* just finished her last one for the night and is now lying on her bed with her laptop 10:05:47 meric_ [n=Eric@124-168-136-120.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #scheme 10:06:02 remember: crack has a half-life of four to five horas ;) 10:06:11 I have a tolerance. 10:06:23 that bottle won't affect me much :P 10:06:51 it's not an entirely inexpensive addiction; i once calculated my yearly expenditure to be close to a grand 10:07:12 sounds just about mine 10:08:11 anyway, the paper is about this method we developed for learning coherence models from data; and subsequently targeting people with well-formed propaganda 10:08:36 creepy. 10:08:48 yeah, exactly; DoD funded, of course ;) 10:09:01 of course 10:09:04 and just so the topic police don't arrest me: we did implement it in scheme 10:09:14 *elly* is a dirty foreigner, and thus unable to work for the DoD 10:09:23 canadian? 10:09:28 australian :) 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:10:37 we funded some indian programmers on this project, actually; the only caveat was that they couldn't see some sensitive theoretical docs 10:10:49 -!- pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:11:01 i'd be surprised if coming from down-under prevents you from milking the dod cash-cow 10:11:09 I have no idea 10:11:19 in very soon I will either be employed by google or microsoft 10:11:30 oh, nice; graduating? 10:11:34 yep :) 10:11:34 foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has joined #scheme 10:11:38 CS undergrad from CMU 10:11:40 pbusser [n=pbusser@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 10:11:42 klutometis: depends on wht they are doing 10:12:20 elly: an old girlfriend of mine was also CS from CMU; it seemed like she was able to print job offers out of thin air 10:12:35 Adamant: true; there are varying degrees of required clearance, i suppose 10:12:48 klutometis: sorta! 10:13:18 klutometis: it's the CS equivalent of having MIT stamped on your engineering degree, not that having MIT stamped on your CS degree is bad or anything :P 10:13:30 klutometis: I've gotten offers from everywhere I've tried for, except some weird finance company that I applied to for the express purpose of visiting my parents on their dime :P 10:13:59 stay away from being a quant unless you know the lay of the land there 10:14:10 I had no intention of working for them 10:14:38 the money for working IT, CS, quant for finance companies is great, but job satisfaction is horrible 10:14:53 I would rather have job satisfaction than money 10:14:57 yup 10:15:01 my desired lifestyle might be described as 'ascetic' 10:15:28 elly: then google will corrupt you with free pancakes and waffles every morning 10:15:45 that is fine 10:15:56 my doctor thinks I am significantly underweight anyway 10:15:57 well, I have heard tales that some finance companies do not suck, but you'd have to be plugged into that scene to to know who, when, and where 10:17:03 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 10:17:15 at the google cafeteria in MTV, there appeared to be some future diabetes-cases that never left 10:17:21 heh 10:17:31 can't blame them; it's a daily roman orgy 10:17:31 I can't eat very much, and nearly all sugary things are too sweet for me 10:17:37 Google is pretty big-company-ish now from what hear.. a Silly Valley big company, but a big company none the less 10:17:42 I cannot tolerate, e.g., ordinary candy bars 10:17:46 nice; you should fare well, then 10:17:54 Adamant: that's the word on the street, yeah 10:18:08 hopefully :) I am supposed to be eating more fat though, and am having no luck so far 10:18:18 elly: you'll get that from the entrees 10:18:23 heh :P 10:18:24 that's good 10:18:33 interesting; i thought the insulin response from sugar and milk was supposed to pack it on more than fat 10:18:49 I am not sure, klutometis 10:18:56 hormones are weird things. 10:18:57 elly: if you actually need to gain weight and not lose it 10:18:57 hmm 10:19:08 pick red meat where you would have picked white 10:19:12 Adamant: I'm way underweight for my height :P 10:19:21 assuming you're not a veggie and I'm being an insensitive clod 10:19:28 I am not a vegetarian, no 10:19:37 alright, that would be a good start 10:20:11 you don't have to start snacking on pork cracklings, but not worrying about fat content of your entrees should do it 10:20:22 haha, alright :) 10:20:55 pick healthy fats where possible and go for saturated where you must 10:21:19 I am not sure this technique will work 10:21:23 ? 10:21:27 my default diet seems to involve eating once per day 10:21:37 if I eat much more than that, I feel full all the time 10:21:43 big meal once a day? 10:22:10 normal meal once a day, currently 10:22:13 ah 10:22:16 hmm 10:22:17 (disclaimer: I am a penniless college student) 10:22:23 yes 10:22:26 well 10:22:28 try this 10:22:46 figure out what is about 60% of your once a day normal meal 10:22:51 and have two meals that big 10:23:02 then when you get used to that 10:23:07 -!- meric [n=Eric@203-158-40-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 10:23:08 -!- meric_ is now known as meric 10:23:14 figure out what was 50% of your normal meal 10:23:19 and eat that 3 times a day 10:23:22 and work from there 10:23:27 heh 10:23:41 I might give that a try when I get back to school :) thanks! 10:23:47 probably the ramen diet has shrunk your stomach :P 10:24:03 'ramen and whatever is lying around the grad student lounge' 10:24:12 (to which I surrepititiously have a key...) 10:24:20 elly: not sure if this happens at CMU 10:24:57 but at my college there is a delightful and fattening connection between faculty and student open lectures and takeout pizza 10:25:14 you get to learn something and get free fattening food 10:25:34 heh :P 10:25:46 if those happen often, I do not know about them 10:25:56 the best sources of free food at CMU are corporate recruitment sessions 10:26:00 ah 10:26:00 they _always_ lay on food 10:26:24 elly: how much do you exercise? 10:26:26 -!- devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-75.greentreefrog.net.au] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 10:26:31 not very! 10:26:42 fun exercise or "I'm gonna be serious and exercise" exercise 10:26:44 I walk a lot to get groceries and such, but otherwise not at all 10:26:48 alright 10:26:52 walking is a good start 10:26:54 devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-75.greentreefrog.net.au] has joined #scheme 10:27:03 I used to run quite a bit when I was in california 10:27:10 but... pittsburgh is too cold for that 10:27:14 as you get to eating more, you might want to start doing more 10:27:24 hopefully... 10:27:28 light weights and stuff 10:27:44 I am not sure about that 10:27:47 building some muscle mass will probably make you have more dietary demands 10:27:59 I ditched my strength program a while ago, and I'm not sure I want more muscle mass even now 10:28:04 ah 10:28:08 fair enough. 10:28:43 (hopefully I wasn't being stereotypical there) 10:28:51 no, not at all 10:29:10 it is just that 10:29:21 Walking a lot is enough exercise. 10:29:24 I am currently doing hormone therapy, as part of gender reassignment 10:29:28 ah 10:29:29 ok 10:29:32 and one of the things people use to gender you is your build 10:29:38 right. 10:29:44 so... less muscle = slenderer build = better :) 10:29:48 right. 10:29:55 (not *healthier*, mind you, but better) 10:30:19 and indeed, I am really quite hourglassy now 10:30:20 got it. 10:30:30 the estrogen is doing a good job of redistributing what little body fat I have :) 10:30:38 Slight overweight is healthier than being slender it seems. 10:30:49 pbusser: it's complicated 10:31:09 I mean, I am definitely unhealthily thin 10:31:13 mostly being active (but not extremely so) is better than being non-active 10:31:17 my BMI hovers close to a clinical diagnosis of anorexia 10:31:21 yeah 10:31:31 Adamant: That is why I said that walking a lot is enough exercise. 10:31:49 elly: Eew! 10:31:54 eew? 10:32:03 elly: That is *very* thin. 10:32:06 yes 10:32:23 I have gained five pounds in the last month, which is very good 10:32:39 pbusser: walking is better than no exercise. walking + weights (if you will do them) is better than just walking. 10:32:52 if you won't do them, just walk. 10:32:52 so my BMI is now 17.9 10:32:54 I once dated a girl who had a history of anorexia. That didn't work out, which made her become anorexic again. 10:33:16 I am working on it. 10:33:26 Hormones have increased my desire to eat substantially :) 10:33:50 there was a time when I was taking a testosterone blocker but no estrogen, during which I had nearly zero appetite, which was bad 10:34:43 Anorexia is a mental condition, not physiological 10:34:59 yes, I know 10:35:24 ugh, the caffeine hasn't worn off yet 10:38:02 -!- nullpo [n=nullpo@221x252x46x83.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 10:42:43 Go home, shut your windows - or the lanterns steal what you forget. 10:44:04 this is the time the Marines get more done all day than the rest of us 10:44:12 except when they have to hurry up and wait 10:45:46 heh :P 10:45:57 ugh. 10:46:03 I'm really glad I am a software person 10:47:03 I've apparently lost my damn mind and I now end up waking up at 3:30-5AM in the morning and enjoying it 10:47:11 that seems legitimate 10:47:16 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-29-94.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:47:17 I'm still awake at 0546 :P 10:47:36 elly: been there, done that 10:47:43 heh :) 10:47:59 going into almost any other industry would be worse. 10:48:05 truth 10:48:17 (in terms of the various problems attached to being transgendered in the workplace, not my sleep schedule) 10:48:23 (although the sleep schedule too... yeah.) 10:48:26 ah right 10:48:29 I was talking sleep 10:48:42 sleep is important :) but easily adjusted 10:49:38 the Silly Valley companies definitely don't seem to make it an issue 10:49:46 from what I've seen 10:49:48 sleep? 10:49:50 or gender? 10:49:56 both 10:49:58 ah 10:49:58 kinda-sorta 10:50:15 well, google and microsoft both do excellent jobs, at least on the gender front :) 10:50:24 well, sleep they are more forgiving that other industries but probably not as lenient as some would like 10:50:29 both of their health insurance plans cover reassignment surgery and such 10:50:34 ah 10:50:36 which is really quite unexpectedly awesome 10:50:41 since it is *expensive* 10:51:06 yeah.. I'm looking forward to working for a software company and having awesome insurance again 10:51:11 :) 10:51:22 Microsoft asserts that their insurance is some of the best you can get anywhere 10:51:36 pre-existing conditions means I'm lucky to have the kinda crappy kinda decent insurance I have right now 10:51:48 hm 10:52:04 I have no pre-existing conditions except 'gender identity disorder', as it is charmingly known 10:52:08 yeah 10:53:58 anyway, it's hilarious when you are throwing money at insurance agencies and they don't want to take it :P 10:54:04 yep :P 10:54:08 *elly* shrugs 10:56:35 <_nofear> hm, hey guys, quick question: is there any site that allows me to have a quick search on the IRC logs from this channel? 10:57:16 check the channel header 10:57:47 _nofear: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/scheme/ 10:58:03 clozure stuff doesn't work? 10:58:14 <_nofear> it does not have search tool I guess 10:58:17 ah 10:58:18 <_nofear> klutometis: tks 10:58:19 this stuff? http://rotty.yi.org/software/irclogs/ 10:59:31 <_nofear> actually I'm trying to find the explanation someone here gave about a Scheme feature, but I think I found it. Thanks a lot 11:01:14 alright 11:01:18 the caffeine has worn off 11:01:26 goodnight klutometis, Adamant, elderK and _nofear :) 11:01:31 *elly* disappears 11:01:33 elly: night! 11:01:37 <_nofear> elly: 'night :) 11:01:38 night! 11:05:36 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 11:14:54 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:15:04 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 11:15:31 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 11:16:31 goodnight elly 11:16:37 :) Sleep well 11:20:31 -!- devslashnull [n=nope@dyn-75.greentreefrog.net.au] has quit [] 11:22:03 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 11:24:49 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme 11:30:16 -!- nutmegmagi [n=swalters@static-72-91-30-20.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:31:33 FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 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has joined #scheme 12:28:09 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-172-111.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 12:53:44 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 12:53:57 -!- schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:55:57 -!- foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:56:01 foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has joined #scheme 13:04:04 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-172-111.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 13:04:57 -!- foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:05:02 foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has joined #scheme 13:13:01 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:13:04 Goodnight people! 13:13:18 -!- elderK [n=zk@125-236-160-103.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #scheme 13:13:26 Good morning! 13:17:53 -!- foof` is now known as foof 13:24:43 -!- hosh 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error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:47:27 Hello foof! 13:48:26 hey 13:48:33 foof: 3 whole days without a chibi update... what's going on? ;-) 13:50:44 -!- foof [n=user@12.150.20.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:50:51 foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has joined #scheme 13:51:55 marijn [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has joined #scheme 13:52:12 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Operation timed out] 13:52:32 foof [n=user@12.150.20.130] has joined #scheme 13:52:48 -!- foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:52:51 foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has joined #scheme 13:54:06 wow, this connection sucks 13:54:20 ooh, the echo bug :/ 13:55:02 alvatar [n=Administ@148.22.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 13:55:16 echo bug? 13:56:32 -!- foof [n=user@12.150.20.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:56:38 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:56:39 foof [n=user@12.150.20.130] has joined #scheme 13:57:18 hmmm... will this be a triple echo? 13:57:25 -!- foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:57:30 foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has joined #scheme 13:58:03 I see you twice, I guess... as foof and as foof' 13:58:32 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:58:51 foof: no echo on this side 13:59:08 odd 14:00:10 -!- foof [n=user@12.150.20.130] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:00:15 foof [n=user@12.150.20.130] has joined #scheme 14:00:41 -!- marijn [n=hkBst@41.184.82.13] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:00:43 snearch [n=olaf@g225049083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:00:55 -!- _nofear [n=maxwell@189.115.12.187] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:01:06 OK, I can't use this connection, later all... 14:01:11 -!- foof` [n=user@12.150.20.130] has quit [Client Quit] 14:01:18 ecomba [n=ecomba@host86-177-103-105.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 14:01:21 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[Remote closed the connection] 15:53:11 -!- jao [n=jao@140.Red-83-42-209.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:53:38 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:57:22 irc2samus [n=samus@static-200-71-6-99.techtel.com.uy] has joined #scheme 16:00:06 alvatar__ [n=alvatar@166.22.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #scheme 16:00:31 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 16:00:45 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 16:03:45 -!- nvteighen [n=nvteighe@231.Red-81-35-181.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 16:07:09 -!- skampler [n=sk@unaffiliated/skampler] has quit ["Changing server"] 16:09:50 synx, how did you get the 183 bytes figure? 16:12:05 i get 63 bytes for the program you posted 16:12:27 of which 14 is for the current-continuation-marks 16:12:34 -!- alvatar [n=alvatar@148.22.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: 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jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:03:47 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:15:29 samth: are you on a 32 bit system? 21:15:38 synx, yes 21:15:50 That's probably why. 21:15:56 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 21:15:59 your estimate is still way too big 21:16:06 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw356150.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:12 i get about 32 bytes for an empty struct 21:16:13 It's what the program spits out... 21:16:27 your program has 3 fields, and one of them has non-trivial size 21:16:32 But it'd be better if... yeah, if I did an empty struct instead of all that weird stuff. 21:16:36 you aren't measuring the size of structs at all 21:17:05 I thought they all had non-trivial size, my bad. 21:17:33 current-custodian and current-eventspace are going to be pointers to things kept around already 21:17:42 current-continuation-marks is going to be new every time 21:17:53 yeah, seems obvious now... 21:18:22 With an empty struct it's 56 bytes in size. 21:18:31 With (make-thingy 1 2 3) it's 80 bytes per struct. 21:19:00 which makes sense, since you have 8-byte words 21:19:13 That's what happens when you try to do two control experiments at once, heh. 21:21:01 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:21:21 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 21:22:14 i'm surprised that it's that big 21:23:05 a struct should be 1 word for the header, 1 word for the pointer to the struct type, and then the slots 21:24:54 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 21:25:09 synx, what do you get for vectors instead of structs? 21:29:54 samth: empty vectors? 21:30:42 I get 48 for empty vectors, 72 for vectors with length 3 of just integers. 21:33:12 masm [n=masm@bl7-201-127.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme 21:34:08 eclugtesting [n=mona@212.33.202.44] has joined #scheme 21:34:26 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 21:35:04 bytecolor [n=user@166.134.16.226] has joined #scheme 21:36:37 surprising 21:37:53 hi 21:38:24 has anyone here written control files using scheme language for MEEP simulator? 21:38:39 -!- copumpkin [n=copumpki@72-60-59-178.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:38:47 synx, are ints 4 bytes on x86_64? 21:39:06 ah, they are 21:39:15 Uh... I use stdint.h ^_^; no clue 21:39:24 which explains why it's structs are bigger than vectors 21:39:49 because structs have a pointer to the struct type, which is 8 bytes 21:39:57 and vectors have an int size, which is 4 bytes 21:40:24 but that's still a different of 4 bytes that's hard to understand 21:40:33 y'know mark me if I'm wrong but... assembly language doesn't have commands taking an "integer" that doesn't specify the exact byte size, right? 21:41:18 synx, "assembly language" isn't specific enough for that question to make sense 21:41:25 pointers yeah, but not integers... 21:42:02 I'm not really good with that low level stuff. I just don't understand why everyone doesn't use like uint32_t. 21:54:41 rudybot: eval (require scheme/foreign) 21:54:48 rudybot: eval (compiler-sizeof 'int) 21:54:48 eli: error: eval:1:1: compile: access from an uncertified context to protected variable from module: '#%foreign in: compiler-sizeof 21:54:54 Bah. 21:55:27 samth: You can test it that way, but in any case, pointers are assumed to be the same size as `long', which is 8 bytes. 21:55:41 synx: As for your size test, it's bogus. 21:56:13 You're using (current-continuation-marks) which will create a copy of the current marks, and that requires allocation. 21:56:43 eli, you're behind the times 21:56:53 samth: What times? 21:56:59 i pointed that out already 21:57:18 if you use empty structs, it's 56 bytes on a 64-bit machine 21:57:39 empty vectors are 48 bytes on a 64-bit machine 21:57:42 synx: Anyway, you should first try your code with (for/list ((index (in-range 100000))) 1) 21:58:17 That would show that each cons cell takes 32 bytes 21:58:26 yeah samth remember there's a 100000 length list on top of the vectors. 21:58:35 That's probably where the extra memory is coming from. 21:58:43 That's 2 pointers for the contents, and probably one type tag and one for the hash. 21:59:12 why 2 pointers for the contents? 21:59:20 also, the hash is a short 21:59:25 My kingdom for dynamically updating vectors. :/ 21:59:47 Hmm. 21:59:50 *gnomon* ponders 21:59:59 Does your kingdom feature huge tracts of land? 22:00:30 Oceanfront property 22:01:08 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 22:01:12 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 22:01:48 samth: two fields for the car and the cdr. 22:02:01 synx: Anyway, if you do all of that, you get 32 bytes for a cons cell, and 80 bytes for the whole struct. 22:02:22 okay 22:02:24 That leaves you with a size of 6 pointers for the struct 22:02:53 Three field, two for the header, and one is somewhere unknown. 22:02:54 hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 22:03:00 Long as it's not 480 bytes per struct, I'm happy. 22:03:25 eli, where did car and cdr come into this? 22:03:55 synx: You can also replace (current-eventspace) and (current-custodian) with '(current-eventspace) and '(current-custodian) to see that adding them adds no space. 22:04:05 samth: synx's code collects the structs into a list. 22:04:12 ah 22:07:50 -!- bipt [i=bpt@cpe-173-095-168-224.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:08:00 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:08:46 heh good idea eli 22:09:54 I could copy the list into a vector, then try to garbage collect the list, leaving only a vector with 1 pointer per cell (plus a few for the header). But eh. I'd rather build the vector up piecewise without using a list at all. 22:10:17 Gotta keep the structs uncollectable somehow though, so overhead is pretty unavoidable... 22:12:53 -!- SvekloA [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:14:54 otherwise memory usage gets optimized to 0 c: 22:26:16 alexsura1i [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:28:34 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:28:47 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 22:28:58 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:31:49 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:33:21 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 22:33:54 -!- Mikaeel_Mohamed [n=Mohamdu@129-97-208-120.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:34:03 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:38:19 schmir [n=schmir@p54A9330D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:42:42 brx_ [i=brx@erxz.com] has joined #scheme 22:43:37 -!- brx_ is now known as brx 22:45:28 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:50:38 -!- bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 22:52:57 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:56:47 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:59:22 -!- nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:00 hotblack231 [n=jh@p4FC5AEB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 23:02:58 nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:49 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [] 23:07:07 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:19:35 copumpkin [n=copumpki@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:25:35 -!- hkBst_ [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:26:20 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@79.197.177.115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:29:12 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-78-35-197-122.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30:58 sepult [n=user@xdsl-78-35-197-122.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:32:00 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A9330D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:33:41 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-78-35-197-122.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:36:03 sepult [n=user@xdsl-78-35-197-122.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 23:49:05 -!- eclugtesting [n=mona@212.33.202.44] has quit [No route to host] 23:58:32 -!- hotblack231 [n=jh@p4FC5AEB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:59:53 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]