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the connection] 00:20:59 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-199-242.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:23:22 cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #scheme 00:30:19 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-204.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 00:41:17 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@93.144.189.93] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:46:49 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:54:31 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.194.245] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:54:39 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 01:04:31 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:24:33 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:31:19 wow, that was a lot of spam... 01:31:28 Sorry I was asleep. 01:35:05 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 01:35:58 -!- samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:36:13 samth [n=samth@c-71-192-54-143.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:46:36 -!- Lis [n=Lis@p5B20690F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de"] 01:48:46 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A93967.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:50:33 -!- flonklebonkle [n=nobody@W8df4.w.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:52:03 mquin: Surely a spambot like that is grounds for a K-line, isn't it? 01:53:19 copumpkin_ [n=copumpki@dhcp-212-204.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 01:54:53 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:56:05 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-204.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:56:07 -!- copumpkin_ is now known as copumpkin 01:58:15 chandler: the k-line file would be huge then! 02:02:17 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:15:47 synx: Most of them are temporary. 02:19:13 -!- sladegen 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ever since sicp, I felt that scheme was the right langauge (TM); but in recent days playing with forth, somehow something feels wonderful about forth too 07:20:51 Forth is elegant and simple as a low-level stack language. However, you can't get around thinking about the stack, which distracts you from higher-level thinking about the problem. 07:21:41 You can write a GC for forth (or use Factor, etc.), and it's possible to add aribtrary syntax, but then what you're left with is an inferior Lisp. 07:21:41 foof: suppose you had forth, with locals (so basically you can say x = stack loc -1, y = stack loc -2, z = stack loc -3 ... and give names to the stack locations; what else does it lack?) 07:22:07 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-171-63.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:15 foof: besides trivial args of "they're both turing complete" why is it inferior to lisp? 07:23:40 Because it would be bootstrapped up from Forth primitives and be very difficult to make as efficient as good Lisp compilers, and because the syntactic extension is weaker than macros. 07:24:09 foof: why is "take a list of word; output a list" weaker than "take a sexp; output a sexp"? 07:24:25 foof: is it "inferior" because it's equal to define-macro nad thus not hygeinix? 07:24:29 *ic* 07:24:43 *hygeinic* 07:25:42 "a list of words" is difficult to work with - high-level macros naturally want to work with parse trees, not lists with inherent contextual ambiguities 07:25:51 and yes, hygiene is important 07:26:17 it's not the be-all and end-all of a language, but having it is clearly superior to not having it 07:26:41 i'm still not convinced this stack based approach distracts me 07:26:55 can you give an example of a good scheme function that is convoluted to write in forth? 07:28:16 amb :) 07:29:57 this is easy to write in a forth w/ continuations 07:30:15 There are forths with continuations? 07:30:20 factor 07:31:20 That's not really Forth. 07:31:32 why not? 07:31:55 It's like a Forth/Lisp hybrid. 07:32:28 what makes it a lisp? 07:33:42 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 07:34:11 Well, it borrows ideas from Lisp. Sorry, I thought you were talking about the actual Forth language, not the family of concatenative programming languages. 07:34:32 Anyway, for a better example how about MATCH. 07:35:05 Implement a recursive destructuring-bind in a Forth-like language. 07:38:18 And that's an everyday macro - I'd hate to have to program without MATCH these days. 07:42:37 If you can pull that off, implement foof-loop :) 07:43:31 what's foof-loop? 07:44:07 http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/foof-loop.txt 07:44:30 * foof-loop: A Simple, Extensible Scheme Looping Facility -*-outline-*- 07:44:37 that's 10 screen fulls long ... 07:47:00 The original c.l.s post is linked in there, that shows how simple both the usage and implementation are. Riastradh has a penchant for very precise, pedantic explanations (which is a good thing, but not a good way to introduce casual readers to a concept). 07:47:46 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:47:49 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 07:49:22 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:02:04 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 08:06:43 copumpkin [n=copumpki@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:16:33 -!- foof [n=user@isa7-dhcp-116-212.naist.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:20:12 this is a bit more on topic 08:20:16 i know define-macro 08:20:21 how do I learn scheme style macros now? 08:23:30 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 08:26:26 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 08:26:45 optimizer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homoiconicity#Homoiconicity_in_Lisp 08:26:48 err 08:26:54 optimizer: http://www.xs4all.nl/~hipster/lib/scheme/gauche/define-syntax-primer.txt 08:26:59 sorry :) 08:27:37 seems my clipboard is still asleep as well 08:27:58 wingo [n=wingo@81.Red-88-17-128.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 08:29:51 -!- saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:30:04 saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 08:31:37 drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:33:50 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:34:07 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:35:07 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:36:23 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 08:36:36 ejs1 [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 08:38:43 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has 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[n=eno@adsl-70-137-158-230.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:02:04 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:07:28 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 20:09:05 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:19:56 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@89-178-69-60.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:21:04 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:24:44 -!- sctb [n=sctb@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:51:35 hee 20:51:45 I am weirdly proud of the => function syntax I introduced 20:51:56 (fn x => (+ x x)) instead of (lambda (x) (+ x x)) 20:52:58 elly, how do you do varargs like that? 20:53:54 I'm not sure, actually 20:54:20 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 20:54:44 (fn x y % z => (apply + x y z)) maybe? 20:54:51 You could pick any identifier 20:55:28 yeah 20:55:35 it doesn't do that currently, but it could 20:58:02 mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 20:58:15 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [Client Quit] 21:00:24 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 21:00:58 dmoerner [n=dmr@88-164.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 21:05:50 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@88-164.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:29 dmoerner [n=dmr@88-164.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 21:11:39 what if you want to use "any identifier" as an identifier? :-) 21:11:49 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@88-164.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:12:47 -!- mreggen_ [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:13:21 mario-goulart: Tough luck ;) 21:13:48 :-) 21:18:35 -!- alaricsp [n=alaric@relief.warhead.org.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:19:32 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 21:29:50 incubot: "As the hammerhead head has expanded, the degree of binocular overlap has increased with it," Dr McComb explains. 21:29:54 It worked for me once I increased the stack limit. 21:35:51 -!- base3 [n=base3@host81-141-232-14.wlms-broadband.com] has quit ["leaving"] 21:39:37 -!- abbe [n=abbe@2001:470:f803:8000:0:0:0:1] has quit [] 21:50:07 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:58:13 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 22:02:59 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:04:22 arabesca [n=arabesca@83.231.75.250] has joined #scheme 22:05:10 hi 22:06:42 arabesca: beautiful like me? :D 22:07:02 what if I'm ugly as hell? 22:07:50 you can still be beautiful inside ^^ 22:09:13 davazp [n=user@16.Red-83-37-232.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:10:20 innards are never beautiful unless to a butcher. 22:11:01 even if I'm insane? 22:11:18 in this case, there might be hope ;) 22:12:02 i think there is always something beautiful in everyone :))) 22:12:17 it may be hard to know what it is though 22:12:57 I'm not used to believe in the good in human, but if I'm listening to music, I think you're right 22:14:20 -!- aehrisch [n=knauel@vhost.knauel.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:15:40 aehrisch [n=knauel@vhost.knauel.org] has joined #scheme 22:20:30 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:27:51 -!- ratelle [n=ratelle@x-132-204-243-48.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:33:08 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:50:04 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:50:37 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@dublin.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [] 22:51:48 it's always bothered me that extracting values from an alist is a multi-step process: assoc/assq/assv; is it a pair? then cdr; otherwise, default. 22:52:11 sure, we can abstract it with a procedure like srfi-69's hash-table-ref/default 22:52:27 but i wonder why srfi-1 didn't bother 22:53:09 it leads to non-standard things like chicken's alist-ref 22:55:28 rlarson`` [n=reid02@CPE00226b5e2074-CM000e5c6ebb22.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:56:20 and it irritates me to include personal grab-bag modules with every project 22:58:20 Feel free to draft up an srfi 22:58:26 -!- jimrees_ [n=jimrees@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:58:36 good call 23:00:21 i've been hanging around the hundred acre wood too long, and just realized that i've adopted pooh's "bother" lexicon; it's more pious to simply draft a srfi 23:01:31 :) 23:02:04 how does one install plt packages in mzscheme? 23:02:18 you mean planet? 23:02:20 i don't have the IDE installed 23:02:25 only mzscheme 23:02:28 (require (planet whatever/blah)) 23:02:31 and a package i've downloaded 23:02:39 where did you get it from 23:02:44 a .plt thing called mrspidey-something.plt 23:02:52 from the website 23:03:00 the one and only website in existence? 23:03:08 i could have sworn the internet was bigger than 1.. 23:03:09 here http://download.plt-scheme.org/mrspidey/ 23:03:47 what version of mzscheme do you have 23:03:53 i have two 23:04:02 4.2.1 and 3.5.2 23:04:20 did you see this note on that download page "System Requirements: PLT Scheme v103p1 running under Windows (95 and up), Mac OS X (10.3 and up), or Unix with the X Window System." 23:04:47 oh 23:04:49 heh 23:05:03 thanks anyway ^^ 23:05:21 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:08:57 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 23:20:57 -!- wingo [n=wingo@81.Red-88-17-128.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to 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