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MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 05:16:01 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:22:08 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 05:22:17 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 05:27:36 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:38:37 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:39:35 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 06:07:12 timchen1` [i=tim@163.16.211.21] has joined #scheme 06:07:13 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 06:10:31 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit ["off"] 06:17:04 untouchable [i=untoucha@129.64.166.32] has joined #scheme 06:18:57 Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 06:19:03 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:19:25 Riastrad1 [n=riastrad@128.30.16.78] has joined #scheme 06:19:34 Oops. 06:19:44 there are two of you! 06:20:02 Hi. Apparently I've been run through a duplicator machine. 06:20:07 No, you haven't, you liar! I have! 06:20:26 oh dear 06:20:28 One of the biggest problems with C++. 06:20:35 *Elly* glares at Riastrad1 06:20:40 you look less legitimate somehow 06:20:47 I was here first! 06:20:56 My screen session was, anyway. 06:20:57 no you weren't! 06:21:02 01:18 -!- Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 06:21:02 01:19 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:21:05 01:19 -!- Riastrad1 [n=riastrad@128.30.16.78] has joined #scheme 06:21:18 -!- Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 06:21:25 -!- Riastrad1 is now known as Riastradh 06:26:10 -!- Riastradh [n=riastrad@128.30.16.78] has quit ["leaving"] 06:40:50 rdd`` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 06:42:15 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:42:15 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-124-156.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has 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has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:58:40 jlongster [n=user@pool-173-53-95-33.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 14:59:32 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:00:12 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:03:34 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@89.134.66.143] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:04:05 ejs [n=eugen@27-98-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 15:07:10 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 15:17:47 wingo pasted "what should this evaluate to" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91161 15:17:59 quick quiz. what should that evaluate to? ^ 15:19:53 answers here. 15:19:54 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/msg/306ccb44cd2ab7e5 15:22:26 i'm pretty sure mzscheme gets this one wrong, fwiw 15:22:56 mornfall [n=mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #scheme 15:25:38 wingo: on first glance I was thinking it should return 0 15:25:51 1 15:25:52 but continuations make my head hurt 15:25:53 that was my first instinct also. 15:25:58 then i thought it could return 0 or 1 15:26:06 but the real answer is 0. 15:26:21 chicken 4.2.2 returns 1 15:26:32 Why is it 0? 15:26:45 chicken 4.2.2. does not follow r5rs or r6rs then in this regard, according to my reading 15:27:13 because of http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/msg/306ccb44cd2ab7e5 15:27:28 see the "i'm so glad you asked!" part 15:29:20 Right. 15:29:52 mejja annotated #91161 "scheme48" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91161#1 15:30:17 indeed, and the same with guile. 15:30:34 that one's a good regression test 15:30:45 it's caught me more than once introducing bugs 15:32:15 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:32:15 -!- ecraven [n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:32:15 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-gekvbzjnbyysnlcb] has quit 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CaptainMorgan wingo wastrel Penth_ jimrees_ brx_ makmanal1 poe acieroid zbigniew j0ni infidel2 timj untouchable erg _Jordan_ michaelw duncanm peddie rapacity mornfall mejja saccade_ tltstc davids albacker RageOfThou blackened` rstandy Narrenschiff pavelludiq Edico mreggen jyujin nasloc__ leppie|work guenthr_ synx ray NNshag eno foof XTL yosafbridge samth felipe 17:46:42 -!- names: dmpk2k zbrown elf nicktastic rotty eli chandler ineiros dlouhy dfeuer duckinator borism_ charleyb ada2358 awarrington Elly Adrinael certainty Armageddon00 17:46:53 davazp` [n=user@103.Red-88-25-187.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:47:14 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:47:20 maybe that was the nick of some annoying person :p 17:48:34 incubot: BvE == Brandon Van Every? 17:48:37 Hey, Brandon added a few comments. 17:48:50 Bad vs. Evil 17:51:38 google fails again 17:53:07 nah, this guy is just a plain clown 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[n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:46:12 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:46:14 In Matthew Might's dissertation, on the correctness of the super-beta in-line transformation by counting analysis, Theorem 10.8.1 gives a sufficient condition for compiling a call (f e_1 ... e_n) in-line when f is known to be bound to a closure over a lambda lam, and one of its hypotheses is that every free variable v of lam be free in the call (f e_1 ... e_n). 19:47:52 What reason could this possibly have, other than that the hypothesis is a mistake? It does not appear to be used in the proof of Theorem 10.8.1, and it would rule out, for example, compiling the call to FOO in-line, in (let* ((x 5) (foo (lambda (y) (list x y)))) (foo 3)), because x is free in (lambda (y) (list x y)) but not in (foo 3). 19:48:14 (Well, it would not rule that out, but it would not enable that either.) 19:48:25 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:50:18 *mejja* grabs http://matt.might.net/papers/might2007diss.pdf 19:50:20 (The dissertation is at ; the theorem and proof in question are on page 135. Most of the notation can be ignored; mu(v, beta(v)) tells how many possible values v can have in an environment beta, so if it can have only one, then it must have that one binding. V(pr) is the set of (abstract) states in the (abstract) execution of a program pr. A(f, beta, c) evaluates a CPS `argument'.) 19:50:27 Ha! 19:51:02 *wingo* cringes at "the seed of the scientist springs" 19:51:11 sprouts, rather 19:51:13 anyway. 19:51:35 Yeah, I liked Olin's acknowledgements better. 19:52:36 hehe 19:53:13 Part showman, part Socrates 19:53:57 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@93.37.243.157] has joined #scheme 19:55:03 page 13 is humorous. 19:57:34 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:57:36 -!- arabesca [n=arabesca@83.231.112.123] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:58:06 Riastradh: so, i struggle with the notation; but is that actually the hypothesis? 19:58:29 I believe so. 19:58:33 ah yes it seems to be that. 19:59:33 Every term is implicitly labelled (with the label stripped for environment references), so if ([[(f e_1 ... e_n)]], etc) is a state in the abstract execution of the program, and f = f', then (f e_1 ... e_n) is the candidate call site: no two terms can have the same label. 20:00:44 -!- sctb [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1"] 20:00:50 Thus, paraphrasing: It is safe...if for each call state for the call site (f e_1 ... e_n), and for each free variable v of lam, v occurs free in (f e_1 ... e_n). 20:01:18 sctb [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 20:01:19 right, for each v  free(lam ): v  free[[(f e1 · · · en )]] 20:01:38 hm. well x is free in (f ...) 20:01:50 in your example 20:01:51 (You can think of ([[(f e_1 ... e_n)]], \hat{\beta}, &c.) in \hat{V}(pr) as an EVAL state in a conventional EVAL/APPLY interpreter, where (f e_1 ... e_n) is the expression to be evaluated and \hat{\beta} is the environment in which to evaluate it.) 20:02:28 The prime affixed to f is a red herring, really. 20:02:40 it's like a fish strapped to a variable 20:02:52 sortof slippery and not really necessary? :) 20:04:08 formal semantics seems to me to be a write-only language. 20:04:31 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@69.226.133.43] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:05:03 Fortunately, this use of semantics is actually fairly straightforward, and corresponds pretty closely to a real interpreter finite state machine with the usual EVAL and APPLY states (ignoring intermediate EVLIS states). 20:06:36 All the hats just mean that we are approximating the interpretation so that the machine will always halt. 20:07:22 \hat{V}(pr) is basically the output of running the machine after typing (trace eval) and (trace apply) at the REPL. 20:07:47 (except that, again, it's an approximate interpreter, so that output will always be finite, which is good for programs that want to look at all of it) 20:08:11 evil states, Riastradh!? 20:09:12 no, he said "Elvis States" -- like Mississippi, and Tennessee 20:10:37 and georgia 20:10:47 olin needs a mullet 20:13:53 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@91.191.55.162] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:57 So I suspect that this hypothesis is just a mistake. 20:14:02 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-55-162.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 20:16:06 geckosenator [n=sean@69.226.133.43] has joined #scheme 20:18:47 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.194.245] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:24 wingo: That's the name of a children's book, isn't it? 20:27:49 offby1: i hear it didn't sell very well 20:29:46 -!- emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:29:47 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:33:39 svb [n=svb@89.189.140.119.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has joined #scheme 20:33:47 -!- svb [n=svb@89.189.140.119.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:33:48 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@mo-rsmitha21.op.umist.ac.uk] has quit [] 20:33:53 emma [n=em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #scheme 20:36:44 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:37:07 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 20:38:21 mije [n=user@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:38:55 good evening 20:39:35 good evening mike 20:39:36 er 20:39:40 mije, sorry. 20:40:08 np :) 20:40:56 :) 20:45:50 ok, i decided that programming should be fun, so i downloaded gambit and i'm compiling it right now 20:46:07 it had to be said. 20:48:08 that's CRAZY TALK 20:48:25 programming should be HARD, or otherwise, everyone would want to do it! Think of the children! 20:48:32 Think of my paycheck! 20:49:02 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 20:50:25 *wingo* salutes mije 20:50:44 yeah it has to be hard at work, there is java for that :) 20:50:50 *offby1* frags wingo 20:51:14 *mejja* gibs wingo 20:51:17 this is a public channel you pervert! 20:51:46 *Riastradh* blinks. 20:52:24 *offby1* hurls his dentures at mbishop 20:53:17 *wingo* pounds the table in indignation 20:56:26 *mije* eats a dog and throws a monkey 20:57:50 -!- snearch_ [n=olaf@g225055198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:59:07 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01:53 *Elly* hides underneath something solid 21:03:22 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:55 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:00 matt might consistently indents lambda incorrectly. 21:07:10 Yes, that's considered stylish in certain aesthetically lacking parts of the Haskell world. 21:07:40 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-68-160-2-236.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:07:53 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:09:39 i don't think i like his thesis. 21:09:55 What don't you like in particular? 21:10:30 nothingHappens [n=nothingH@173-25-176-111.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 21:10:32 unfortunately i can't give you a satisfactory answer. i switched back and forth between the slides and the thesis, 21:10:53 and i just have this feeling of pedantic opacity. 21:11:01 it doesn't radiate clarity, to me. 21:11:09 but that could be my ignorance. 21:11:15 (likely, actually.) 21:12:19 I think it is considerably better developed than Olin's dissertation (which is to be expected, since it is essentially a continuation of that). 21:12:41 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@69.226.133.43] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:13:23 i haven't read his dissertation in full, yet. 21:19:40 proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #scheme 21:20:12 dacz [n=chatzill@static-209-139-213-73.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #scheme 21:20:20 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:25:26 ok SICP section 1.1 ! I'm on the verge of something. 21:26:53 :) 21:33:47 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE1E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 21:35:29 *wingo* enjoys his wine & hack 21:37:56 -!- dacz [n=chatzill@static-209-139-213-73.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 21:44:02 kirekegaardvark [n=user@ip98-169-28-227.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:45:59 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-124-156.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 21:47:36 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@93.37.243.157] has quit [] 21:48:31 -!- kirekegaardvark [n=user@ip98-169-28-227.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #scheme 21:55:13 -!- gnomon_ is now known as gnomon 21:56:23 Riastradh: is there a specic reason you have chosen `root' over `/' in pathname-unix.el? 21:59:43 No. 21:59:45 (just asking if I should do the same in my Scheme pathname library...) 22:00:59 ok 22:03:53 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.194.245] has joined #scheme 22:08:48 btw, I should soon have a reasonably tested implementation of `enough-pathname' you could probably snarf for pathname.el 22:11:33 rotty: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/lexnames.html 22:27:24 bloublou1000 [n=bloublou@dsl.speedline209.250.electronicbox.net] has joined #scheme 22:30:28 -!- untouchable [i=untoucha@dhcp-129-64-166-32.dorm.brandeis.edu] has quit ["( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )"] 22:33:48 arabesca [n=arabesca@83.231.77.2] has joined #scheme 22:34:07 night 22:35:00 "night" is when you go away. "evening" is when you greet. 22:35:03 evening :) 22:36:27 Olin's gang is starting to get on my nerves... 22:36:55 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-9-179.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 22:37:12 picture olin in a mullet and it all gets better 22:37:13 wingo well i usually say night when it is dark outside 22:37:16 :P 22:38:10 arabesca: i'm just saying, in case you're spanish :) 22:39:01 yes i've born in spain ^^ 22:39:29 you'be born whom in spain? ^^ 22:39:35 *ve 22:40:03 vale pues good night es un despedido, no una salutación :) 22:40:05 no joking, i know my english is bad :( 22:40:10 np :) 22:40:18 wingo gracias :) 22:40:20 saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 22:40:57 mejja, starting to get on your nerves? 22:42:26 *una despedida 22:42:30 rustiness. 22:44:09 what would you say in english for "something you say when taking leave of someone"? 22:44:28 the opposite of greeting 22:45:12 A farewell? 22:46:06 ah that is a lovely word, yes. 22:46:20 arabesca: no problem, my english isn't good either :) 22:46:21 *wingo* interns that symbol 22:46:45 i am waiting for mejja's rant. 22:46:49 probably this sentence is 100% horror to a native speaker :D 22:47:30 wingo "good bye"? 22:47:33 -!- sctb [n=sctb@S01060016cbc2d41a.cg.shawcable.net] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.1"] 22:47:47 sure, that can work 22:47:59 Riastradh: not sure if you saw this, but this might amuse: http://paste.lisp.org/display/91161 22:48:47 Riastradh: Excellent thesis. 22:49:03 `But where's the code?'? 22:49:09 Right! 22:49:49 hehe 22:49:59 Well, LIAR has done 0CFA for a long time, before Olin even wrote his dissertation. 22:51:16 isn't waddell's work somewhat similar as well 22:51:44 And the frame string analysis won't help LIAR for much, because LIAR doesn't take advantage of any extent information. 22:53:22 -!- arabesca [n=arabesca@83.231.77.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:55:12 arabesca [n=arabesca@83.231.42.112] has joined #scheme 22:55:39 evening :) 22:56:34 evening :) 22:58:37 bombshelter13b [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:02:26 wingo, I believe that should give 0, under any order of evaluation for LETREC. Under LETREC* semantics, that should give 1. 23:02:49 The annotations partially confirm this. 23:02:54 Riastradh: sure 23:02:54 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 23:03:02 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE1E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:03:14 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE1E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:35 as does http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/browse_thread/thread/141d47814c79776b/306ccb44cd2ab7e5?#306ccb44cd2ab7e5 23:03:37 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yfrdeca 23:03:45 but there are a number of scheme impls that produce 1 23:04:06 i don't think there's a question about semantics here, given that it specifies letrec, and not define 23:04:29 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 23:05:02 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:10:36 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 23:10:46 -!- Riastradh [n=riastrad@tissot.csail.mit.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 23:10:47 wingo: http://sisc-scheme.org/r5rs_pitfall.scm 23:11:03 mejja: yes, it is from that 23:11:57 mejja: interesting link, thanks 23:12:00 i was surprised to find that chicken and mzscheme still have that bug, apparently 23:12:38 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 23:12:46 (and my `enough-pathname' is purely syntactic, FWIW, it doesn't handle CL-style :up at all) 23:12:51 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:14:27 mejja annotated #91161 "plt-r5rs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91161#3 23:14:55 mejja: really! 23:15:02 i ran mzscheme and i got 1 23:15:05 *wingo* checks again 23:15:28 mejja annotated #91161 "mzscheme" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91161#4 23:15:58 why is that? 23:16:11 because plt really isn't standard scheme? :) 23:22:14 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:29:25 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:40:17 -!- drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-208-183.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:50:24 -!- mije [n=user@tal33-5-88-181-16-209.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:51:35 -!- davazp` [n=user@103.Red-88-25-187.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 23:52:12 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055C10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:58:02 greyhame [n=jao@57.Red-88-26-43.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme