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03:21:16 <synx> incubot: make like a banana and KILL YOURSELF
03:21:20 <incubot> Anyone know of any good screen recorders (for making movies of your screen) on Mac OS X that don't kill your wallet?
03:22:34 <geckosenator> mencoder
03:22:49 <geckosenator> not sure if it works on mac os x
03:22:55 <geckosenator> but might
03:24:06 <caoliver> It's likely part of an mplayer bundle.
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03:41:22 <mbishop> you guys do realize you were responding to incubot, right?
03:41:25 <mbishop> incubot: you're a crazy bot
03:41:25 <incubot> at first I wasn't sure whether Jesus the Monster Truck was fer real or not. I don't have a good handle on what kind of crazy things bible-belters will actually do, and what they won't do (satirists go where the earnest fear to tread)
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04:10:53 <caoliver> No.  I read the question, but not the source.
04:10:58 <caoliver> More fool me.
04:11:01 <caoliver> 'nite
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05:19:26 <klutometis> you know what? the javascript cats aren't so bad, after all
05:19:38 <klutometis> they hold scheme in god-like esteem, even though they don't touch it
05:19:46 <klutometis> and they make things like this: http://documentcloud.github.com/underscore/
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06:01:27 *offby1* was just reading some Javascript -- they use lambdas everywhere, although they spell it funny
06:01:39 <offby1> "f-u-n-c-t-i-o-n", I think is how they spell it
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07:14:57 <synx> javascript used to be horrible, but these days it's okay, with lexical binding and first class functions. Only trouble is it's not cross browser, but that's Microsoft's fault mostly.
07:16:39 <synx> I made a kewl javascript thing the other day actually. I'm still heartily minimalist in its usage though. It adds so much complexity to rendering.
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07:18:17 <synx> https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/tacetclick/test.html
07:18:27 <synx> not really scheme, but I used scheme to generate the HTML like I usually do.
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10:43:37 <klutometis> synx: not bad; couple lines of jquery probably, though ;)
10:43:52 <klutometis> i see you're still steadfastly clinging to self-signed certificates
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12:23:34 <arabesca> morning
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14:30:13 <foof> http://synthcode.com/scheme/match.scm
14:30:26 <foof> Looking for feedback on the new tree matching syntax.
14:31:00 <foof> Analogous to how (x ... y) matches a list of zero or more x's followed by a y,
14:31:30 <foof> (x *** y) matches a tree path of zero or more x's containing a y.
14:32:24 <foof> You can use pattern variables in x, and they are accumulated as a list of each instance in the path (like how ... works).
14:33:40 <foof> Example:
14:33:42 <foof> (define sxml '(p (ul (li (a (^ (href . "http://foo.com/")) "foo")))))
14:34:17 <foof> (match ((tag *** ('a ('^ attrs ...) text ...)) (list tag attrs text)))
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14:34:37 <foof> => ((p ul li) ((href . "http://foo.com/")) ("foo"))
14:36:04 <leppie|work_> nice foof  :)
14:36:14 <foof> It just matches the first path found in a depth-first search (restricted to recursing on nodes matching x of course).
14:36:35 <foof> I'm debating allowing (x *** y ***) to return a list of all such y's.
14:36:53 <foof> This latter form of course would always succeed.
14:39:01 <foof> The form (x ***) matching the first path of x's would be meaningless, since that first path is always the empty path.
14:44:50 <foof> This is still fully portable syntax-rules, in an added 30 lines of code.
15:03:18 <foof> I suppose by extension (x *** y *** z) could be shorthand for (x *** (y *** z)), that is a path of x's followed by a path of y's ending in a z.
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15:17:19 <foof> Oh, duh, it's Thanksgiving day, none of the Americans are around to comment.
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15:33:17 *foof* sighs
15:33:33 *sladegen* peeters out.
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15:38:59 <leppie|work_> only tomorrow, isnt it?
15:41:36 <foof> Well, yesterday in my timezone.
15:42:18 <ski> foof : can you use that to match out the  bar  from  (foo a (foo b (bar) c) d)  ?
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15:42:34 <foof> ski: yep
15:42:52 <foof> I gave a simple example, but it's a full-fledged search.
15:43:35 <ski> would  ((foo a d) (foo b c))  be returned as the list, then ?
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15:44:43 <foof> There's no return result, per se, it's just a matter of what the match identifiers are bound to in the body of the clause.
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15:45:22 <foof> If you were matching ('foo *** 'bar) there are no variables - it would just be a successful match.
15:46:39 <ski> yes. i'm wondering if one can set up the match so as to get that list (or something similar) in a bound variable
15:46:50 <foof> If you were matching (x *** (y)) searching for any single-element list, then in the body of the match, x => (foo foo) and y => bar.
15:47:41 <foof> A common idiom is to (and <identifier> <pattern>) to match and name something.
15:48:41 <foof> So you could change the sxml example to only consider chains of the tags <p>, <ul> and <li> and still bind tag to the list of tags:
15:49:04 <foof> ((and tag (or 'p 'ul 'li)) *** ('a ('^ attrs ...) text ...))
15:49:40 <ski> ok
15:50:46 <ski> (that doesn't capture the arguments of the tags (not counting the path), though)
15:51:39 <ski> (but i'm not quite sure how something that would do that would look like)
15:51:47 <foof> You mean the attributes/bodies of the tags?  No.  That could be useful in some circumstances.
15:52:40 <foof> i.e. somehow bind and collect the path nodes themselves, not the head elements
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15:56:02 <ski> maybe the pattern  (nested my-nest (let bindings (my-nest body)))  matching on  (let ((a 0) (b 1)) (let ((c 2)) (list a b c)))  could bind  bindings  to  (((a 0) (b 1)) (c 2))  and  body  to  (list a b c)
15:56:25 <ski> er, replace  let  with  'let  i suppose
15:59:03 <ski> (and i'm missing a pair of brackets, oh well ..)
15:59:18 <foof> Yeah, I got what you mean.
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16:31:30 <arabesca> evening
16:35:48 <foof> evening
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16:49:19 <leppie> one more work day till weekend
16:53:04 *mario-goulart* can't wait
16:53:42 <leppie> me neither, from tommorow, I will have my car all to myself again, forever!
16:54:22 <mario-goulart> What about the cdr?
16:54:49 <leppie> (append '(mycar) '(new-car-for-gf))
16:55:10 <leppie> like a concurrent pair with 2 cars
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17:29:00 <eli> synx: javascript *always* had first class functions and lexical scope.
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18:31:34 <synx> really eli? I guess I just never knew about it then.
18:31:35 <synx> I thought the a = function () {} syntax was a newer specification.
18:32:04 <sjamaan> No, the   function a.foo() { } is new
18:32:20 <synx> huh
18:32:23 <sjamaan> (not   function foo() { }  though, that's old too)
18:32:25 *synx* obviously hasn't done much in javascript
18:32:28 <sjamaan> :)
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18:37:40 <eli> synx: Yes, it actually started as Scheme, with {}-ish syntax.
18:38:15 <eli> One of the demos I had on my web page (since about 1998) was a button that would make the browser evaluate (function(x){ return x(x); })(function(x){ return x(x); })
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18:38:38 <eli> The only new thing is that at some point browsers stopped segfaulting on that.
18:38:42 <sjamaan> heh
18:38:50 <synx> heh
18:39:38 <synx> javascript doesn't have tail recursion, does it?
18:39:51 <Elly> "I don't see why not"
18:40:05 <sjamaan> It doesn't
18:40:40 <synx> so that example there would fill the call stack. Which ought to have protections agains segfaults, but...
18:40:54 <eli> I don't think that they don't crash now because they do tail calls.
18:41:07 <eli> More likely they just starve the script when it wants too much stack.
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18:45:15 <klutometis> too bad they didn't include scheme: http://i.imgur.com/ng5aS.png
18:46:36 <sjamaan> heh, nice one
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18:50:01 <klutometis> scheme is apparently 165 / 176000 * 100 = .09375%
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18:50:14 <klutometis> so, more than java and haskell; but less than python and c++
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18:51:45 <klutometis> whoops; when you account for fuck*, it becomes: 449 / 176000 * 100 = .25%, more than even perl!
18:52:01 <sjamaan> fuck*?
18:52:10 <klutometis> apparently google code allows globs
18:52:15 <sjamaan> funky
18:52:22 <klutometis> http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=lang%3Ascheme+fuck*&sbtn=Search
18:52:24 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/yk42j3b
18:52:53 <klutometis> oh, never mind; foiled by google soft search
18:53:12 <sjamaan> yeah, "fuc" is highlighted too
18:53:12 <klutometis> fuck* matches "fuchsia" and "fuction" (sic) apparently
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18:54:11 <klutometis> rudybot: later tell jcowan dammit: who decided to bring soft search to google code? http://tinyurl.com/yk42j3b
18:54:11 <rudybot> minion: memo for jcowan: klutometis told me to tell you: dammit: who decided to bring soft search to google code? http://tinyurl.com/yk42j3b
18:54:11 <minion> Remembered. I'll tell jcowan when he/she/it next speaks.
18:54:33 <sjamaan> :)
18:56:04 <sjamaan> bots who delegate \o/
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18:57:02 <mario-goulart> klutometis: I bet staling source code would beat them all.
19:00:06 <klutometis> mario-goulart: stalin?
19:04:28 <caoliver> sjamaan: Bot who delegate to... wait for it... bots.
19:05:03 <klutometis> caoliver: luckily there's a shallow base case for that recursion
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19:13:54 <poe> this works better:  lang:scheme fuck(.*)
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19:23:00 <klutometis> poe: oh, i see; it not just globs: it's actually regexp
19:23:04 <klutometis> should have RTFM ;)
19:23:54 <klutometis> minion: memo for jcowan: never mind; i was globbing where i should have grepped
19:23:54 <minion> Remembered. I'll tell jcowan when he/she/it next speaks.
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19:24:49 <poe> I wonder how those result change for different languages, that's a funny statistic
19:27:04 <klutometis> this is my favorite: http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en&sa=N&cd=21&ct=rc#IYPQuu3Y3co/gee--alpha--0.3/modules/gee/crypto/gcrypt.scm&q=lang:scheme%20fuck(.*)
19:27:08 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/y8ofvev
19:31:07 <mario-goulart> klutometis: yes, stalin. It's source code is pretty dirty.
19:31:11 <mario-goulart> Its*
19:31:41 <mario-goulart> I guess the internal error procedure is called fuck-up, IIRC.
19:36:54 <offby1> it could also have been called "d'oh", except for the apostrophe
19:37:47 <sjamaan> |d'oh|?
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19:45:34 <offby1> yeah
19:47:36 <mario-goulart> |d'oh|? is more like a predicate procedure.
19:48:38 <klutometis> offby1: i notice cozi broke out the appropriately agnostic holiday stock photos
19:48:54 <klutometis> or are those real users?
19:51:12 <klutometis> incubot: i just downloaded all 4.4G of gutenberg science fiction, only to find a defective iso
19:51:16 <incubot> http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext00/7getz10.txt
19:52:08 <klutometis> incubot: thanks; i love goethe
19:52:11 <incubot> and I've always concurred with Goethe: "he who cannot draw on 3,000 years is living from hand to mouth".
19:52:27 <klutometis> well said
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20:10:35 <eli> klutometis: The presence of brainfuck in the results means that your (.*) is redundant.
20:11:10 <offby1> klutometis: pff.  They're all stock
20:11:15 <offby1> I _think_.
20:12:56 <klutometis> eli: do you see brainfuck in this search? http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&sa=N&q=lang:scheme+fuck
20:13:26 <klutometis> some kind of glob/regex is required to hit up the participles, etc.
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20:13:42 <klutometis> unadorned * is too loose, though; methinks
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20:16:32 <klutometis> there we go: http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&lr=&q=lang%3Ascheme+\Wfuck%28.*%29&sbtn=Search
20:16:41 <klutometis> voila: no brainfuck
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20:16:53 <wingo> evening, schemetron
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20:21:48 <eli> klutometis: No, I saw some scheme code that mentioned brainfuck in the results.
20:23:00 <wingo> hello eli.
20:23:12 <eli> good morning.
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20:41:51 <bytecolor> does the symbol 9:00pm conflict with R5RS?
20:43:24 <bytecolor> The wording of section 2.1 Identifiers makes me think it is, but a few interperters I've tried happily accept it as a symbol.
20:43:31 <wingo> yes it does.
20:43:57 <wingo> well
20:43:59 <wingo> hm.
20:44:37 <wingo> perhaps that language says that many things may be symbols, including '9:00pm, but there are restrictions for portable code
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20:50:05 <bytecolor> wingo: nod, it can be a bit ambiguous
20:50:21 <wingo> it seems so
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20:51:17 <bytecolor> I actually found that example in SICP, well 9am was the symbol, but the point being, it 'begins with a character that cannot begin a character'
20:51:37 <bytecolor> *begin a number
20:52:27 <bytecolor> I'm writing a parser based on R5RS and that is the only problem I've run into, so far
20:53:05 <wingo> that's pretty good, if you got all the number cases right
20:53:15 <wingo> depends on your numeric supporting library i guess
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20:54:13 <bytecolor> wingo: don't get too excited, it only parses, no semantics yet
20:54:48 <wingo> heh, sure.
20:55:10 <bytecolor> the number tower is going to be interesting though ;)
20:55:19 <wingo> indeed :)
20:56:36 <bytecolor> I'm using Boost, which has at least a Rational type, and it's own parser Spirit2.
20:57:29 <bytecolor> I guess I could dig into the docs for various Scheme implementations and look for clues about identifiers.
20:58:43 <wingo> these days if i were to implement a new scheme i'd do it in scheme, reader and all
20:59:01 <wingo> as it is i have a hunk of c code i'm slowly moving to scheme, slowly
20:59:10 <bytecolor> heh, nod
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22:15:24 <arabesca> night
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