00:03:49 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:04:50 mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 00:05:07 -!- davazp [n=user@218.Red-83-37-233.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:08:08 -!- Nshag [i=user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-97-246.adsl.proxad.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:10:26 -!- mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:19:10 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 00:20:17 -!- Paraselene__ [n=None@79-67-188-149.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:20:52 Paraselene__ [n=None@79-67-188-149.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 00:24:26 mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 00:28:29 Foo! 00:28:38 *mbishop* hides 00:31:18 Well?? What's new and exciting Schemeliwise?! 00:35:06 nan8 [n=user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #scheme 00:37:05 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-124-156.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 00:38:13 *offby1* sharpens his dentures threateningly 00:44:34 Riastradh: works like a charm 00:47:04 mejja, you're running this in the interpreter, with a tiny heap, and Scheme is running stably? 00:48:04 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:48:47 Interesting. 00:49:03 (gc-flip) => ;Value: 13203 00:49:21 In edwin of course... 00:49:33 Omit the references to K in command positions. 00:50:58 -!- ltriant [n=ltriant@202.136.38.162] has quit ["."] 00:51:10 What? 00:52:08 (lambda (k) k ...) => (lambda (k) ...) 00:52:38 *mejja* laughs... 00:52:43 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:52:52 OK. it run out of memory. Fu! 00:54:27 So I guess there's something else wrong here. 00:54:34 But if the problem goes away with the patch... 00:54:47 *Riastradh* glances about shiftil^Winnocently. 00:58:10 ;GC #146803: took: 0.50 (100%) CPU time, 0.50 (100%) real time; free: 4420 00:59:47 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 01:02:32 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:03:19 -!- rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:05:21 schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme 01:06:09 hey, alphie! 01:07:32 hello. I just installed mzscheme on windows, compiled it myself under cygwin. and its behaviour is strange. when starting the REPL and waiting a few seconds, doing actually nothing, the fan of my processor is engaging and the whole system seems to get slower. any ideas what the problem could be? 01:08:18 aren't there pre-compiled binaries for windows? 01:08:44 maybe, but not for cygwni 01:08:48 cygwin 01:08:52 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@users-42-45.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:09:10 but it compiled perfectly. the only difference is - according to the readme - that one has to use --enable-shared. 01:09:23 i would guess that you are on your own experiment. 01:09:43 ? 01:09:56 i need a scheme that runs under cygwin ... 01:10:34 otherwise i would use petite chez scheme, but it doesnt integrate into cygwins path-naming scheme. 01:10:46 ask eli, he should know whether and how it should work or will point you to somone who knows. 01:10:59 or mailing list... 01:11:22 sounds like a busy loop and a fan problem? 01:11:54 maybe a failing select somewhere 01:12:28 yes, the process takes a lot of processor power, which speaks for a busy loop. 01:12:52 schoppenhauer: maybe you want to try gauche 01:13:24 nan8, unfortunately, the software I want to use needs either mzscheme or petite 01:14:04 nan8, petite would be choice #1, but well, the software uses load-instructions ... and I dont know how to tell petite to rewrite the paths passed to them. 01:14:59 schoppenhauer: install linux virtual machine. 01:15:02 the problem is, when making (define (load a) some-code-which-rewrites-a-and-passes-it-to-load), i cannot access the old load-function inside some-code-... 01:15:21 sladegen, well, thats the last thing I will do, but I would like to try to run it under windows first. 01:15:28 why cygwin? very weird. 01:15:43 is there another possibility? 01:16:22 as I said, its a dumb piece of software my boss has coded ... which uses load-instructions which have unix-like paths (including slashes rather than backslashes) 01:16:35 is there a possibility to overload the load-function? 01:17:47 there are native precombiled binaries of plt scheme. i do not understand why you'd need the pain of cygwin. 01:18:03 precombined... ho, ho. 01:18:18 because i need unix-like path-schemes 01:18:27 that should be the only problem 01:18:46 is it possible in mzscheme or petite scheme to overload the load-directive without losing the possibility of calling it afterwards? 01:20:16 i.e. can I do something like (define load2 load) (define (load a) (load2 (rewrite-path-somehow a))) without tears? 01:20:22 that should solve the problem 01:20:34 with a macro, perhaps. 01:21:01 doesn't plt scheme translate / to \ anyway? 01:21:42 petite doesnt 01:21:45 What do macros have to do with it?? 01:21:54 hm. seems like i can overload the load-macro. 01:22:24 schoppenhauer, if the code is R5RS code, you can do that. If not, you'll have to give more details about how the code uses LOAD. In PLT Scheme, for example, I believe there is a parameter object that can be set to supply a procedure to be called when LOAD is calle. 01:22:37 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 01:23:01 Riastradh, it is r5rs (at least as far as I know) 01:23:05 oh, no mzschme says it's a procedure... so of course you can do whatever you please. 01:23:39 *sladegen* hasn't used load in a long time. 01:23:58 (If it is using LOAD, there is a good chance that it is broken to begin with, though.) 01:25:16 Riastradh: Don't worry.. chez supports the magical eval-when special form! 01:25:27 why does the c2.com wiki have to be down? :( 01:25:47 -!- flonklebonkle [n=nobody@W8c83.w.pppool.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:25:51 hm. ok. seems like this will work ... I'll have to investigate deeper ... but not today ... since i noticed it is 2:25 by now ... thank you so far. good night (or afternoon or whatever is where you are currently). 01:25:52 something like this ... (define load (let ((old-load load)) (lambda (path) use ... old-load here))) 01:26:32 sladegen, yes, thats what i tried. and seems like it works, but i havent tested all files yet. 01:27:28 -!- schoppenhauer [n=css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit ["Verlassend"] 01:27:55 incubot: wasn't that weird? 01:28:02 i know freenode is better... the problem is, that chan was on ircnet for about 10 years now or something... 01:28:42 -!- mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:29:50 incubot: "Windows 7" ftw! 01:29:54 more like saying that coming out with a program for Windows, or encouraging someone else to use Windows, supports MS 01:32:20 Win7 is actually pretty nice 01:32:23 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 01:32:26 for Windows, at least. 01:42:49 -!- masm [n=masm@bl9-115-47.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:44:51 -!- nan8 [n=user@static.180.75.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has left #scheme 01:48:14 -!- drwho [n=drwho@c-98-225-211-78.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:48:38 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 01:48:48 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:55:26 -!- charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.128] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:55:26 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:55:26 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:55:26 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-197-189.net.novis.pt] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:55:26 -!- tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 01:56:54 charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.128] has joined #scheme 01:56:54 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 01:56:54 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 01:56:54 TR2N [i=email@89-180-197-189.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme 01:56:54 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:57:42 -!- tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 01:57:53 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-197-189.net.novis.pt] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 01:58:30 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:59:25 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/forum/traversal.svg 01:59:26 What do you call those two node traversal orders? 01:59:58 The first one goes deepest first, building all lower nodes before the one above them. The second goes shallowest first, unpacking the top node before getting at any below it. 02:02:44 TR2N` [i=email@89.180.197.189] has joined #scheme 02:04:33 pre-order and post-order? 02:04:41 er the second is in-order 02:04:46 the first is pre-order I think 02:05:43 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 02:18:01 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-124-156.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 02:19:09 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:32:43 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:32:43 -!- charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.128] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:32:43 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:33:27 charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.128] has joined #scheme 02:33:27 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 02:33:27 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined 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-!- Guest7144 is now known as chandler 03:34:58 -!- untouchable [i=untoucha@dhcp-129-64-166-32.dorm.brandeis.edu] has quit [Success] 03:38:45 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:46:38 -!- voidpointe_ [n=Void@200.100.182.242] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:51:07 thanks jonrafkind! I just couldn't remember what terms to look up. 03:51:23 sure 03:52:21 jonrafkind: second is post-order. I can't do in-order since a parent piece needs all child pieces before it can be created. 03:52:30 left, that is 03:52:49 tjaway [n=timj@e176216016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:59:01 does anyone know what the deal is with PLT's "stateless servlets"? The only state I wanna save is to a database, so... 04:04:57 its something about serializing continuations 04:07:00 -!- frivol [n=frivol@unaffiliated/flippo] has quit ["Reality reasserts itself sooner or later."] 04:09:10 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176196143.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:10:53 ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 04:11:46 -!- ASau` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:22:52 -!- davazp [n=user@218.Red-83-37-233.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:29:23 synx, I presume it is to save page state, like selections of dropdowns and values in input fields. 04:29:47 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:29:59 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 04:31:07 humf, yeah something like that 04:31:07 so you can have the reply to form submissions as simple as returning from a call/cc 04:31:34 yip 04:38:08 Penth_ [n=rachel@pool-98-114-154-117.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 04:40:07 -!- Penth [n=rachel@pool-173-62-224-249.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:53:13 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:53:24 hey, updated my sqlite wrapper a bit in my utility package. 04:53:26 http://planet.plt-scheme.org/display.ss?package=util.plt&owner=synx 04:53:44 now it reopens the database instead of just erroring out if you use a statement from a closed database. 04:53:58 ...which might be a bad idea. I don't plan on closing my databases anyway. 04:54:08 yip :) 04:59:53 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 05:37:38 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:47:22 Bow wow yippie-o yippie-ay 05:48:21 http://www.tennessean.com/article/20091107/ENTERTAINMENT01/911070345/ if you don't believe me 05:48:29 *offby1* kicks rudybot 05:49:09 OK, OK: http://tinyurl.com/ykynu7q 05:50:55 Lis [n=Lis@p5B2053D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 05:51:33 mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 05:51:43 -!- mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:51:58 mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 06:04:13 incubot: bow wow wow, yippie yo, yippie yea! 06:04:16 yippie 06:17:37 Ja Ja Ja Ja 06:25:23 -!- mmmdonuts [n=mmmdonut@69.182.107.35] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:39:29 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 06:42:37 ASau``` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 06:43:43 -!- mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:43:43 -!- ASau`` [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:43:43 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@99.232.20.26] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:43:43 -!- borism [n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:43:43 -!- XLT [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:43:43 -!- timchen119 [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:43:43 -!- samth_away [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:43:43 -!- yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@64.71.152.39] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:43:43 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 06:44:51 mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 06:44:51 gnomon [n=gnomon@99.232.20.26] has joined #scheme 06:44:51 borism [n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 06:44:51 XLT [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 06:44:51 timchen119 [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 06:44:51 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 06:44:51 yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@64.71.152.39] has joined #scheme 06:44:51 samth_away [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 06:45:04 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@99.232.20.26] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 06:45:14 xwl [n=user@125.34.168.46] has joined #scheme 06:45:16 gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE0022158a8221-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 06:57:18 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 07:19:08 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@63.250.234.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:19:42 snearch [n=olaf@e179142029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 07:30:21 -!- mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:41:52 -!- incubot [n=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Success] 07:46:30 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 07:56:03 -!- tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:56:33 Which Scheme FFI's allow distinguishing pointers returned from C which should be atomatically freed when the Scheme reference is GCed? 07:59:13 -!- charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.128] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:59:42 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 07:59:59 I think that is a programmer's responsibility 08:03:45 Right, that seems to be the approach generally taken, which is why I'm looking for counter-examples :) 08:04:39 distinguishing these pointers from what? 08:07:12 From those which don't need to be freed. Fore example any pointer simply returned as an accessor or other function than a constructor, or static pointers such as those returned by getenv. 08:09:37 So the distinction must be based on something that the glue-code writer specifies, and you're just asking about the ability to express the two pointers, right? 08:10:37 Express the difference, and optionally provide a finalizer to automatically free the C pointer. 08:13:54 See http://svn.plt-scheme.org/plt/trunk/collects/ffi/esd.ss 08:14:49 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:14:57 The definition of `_esd' specifies that it's a type that is based on `_int', that `esd-num' should be used to get an integer when passed to C, and that the function should be applied when retrieved from C. 08:15:39 What you're talking about is adding a second type that doesn't register the finalizer. 08:16:04 (And since the types are values, it would be easy to write a function that wraps a given ctype with one that registers a finalizer.) 08:21:21 So at the FFI level there is no automatic freeing, but you typically provide a finalizer in the constructor interface? 08:22:37 -!- ASau``` is now known as ASau 08:23:33 Yes. 08:23:47 OK, thanks. 08:24:28 This contrasts with Chicken which is entirely manual (you call (free) manually from the Scheme side). 08:27:45 ... and from the documentation I'm not clear what Gambit is doing. 08:33:45 Well, doing it "manually" on the scheme side makes perfect sense if there's a hook that allows you to register a finalizer to automatically do the manual job. 08:38:19 Yep, set-finalizer!. 08:43:23 Guile automatically works at the type-level, so there's no distinction between individual objects which should or shouldn't be freed. 08:46:46 That's actually what I was planning for Chibi. 08:49:35 The scheme solution is much better, IMO, since it's completely flexible in whatever you need to do to release a resource. 08:50:06 And because it means more work in Scheme and less in C, which overall means less work... 08:55:16 It does require an extra slot per Scheme object to be able to register finalizers. Or some external table. 09:07:46 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme 09:10:31 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:11:02 schmir [n=schmir@p54A9252E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:12:43 mmmdonuts [n=mmmdonut@69.177.214.1] has joined #scheme 09:13:22 schmir` [n=schmir@p54A9252E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:13:43 mmmdonuts: long time no see! 09:14:22 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A9252E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:14:22 -!- schmir` [n=schmir@p54A9252E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:14:41 schmir [n=schmir@p54A9252E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 09:17:33 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:19:02 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:20:24 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 09:25:05 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] 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snearch [n=olaf@e179142029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 10:20:46 foof: although not in any Scheme FFI, .NET has a thing called SafeHandles, which are basically opaque pointers, but could be freed by the GC 10:22:06 leppie: Just passed directly to free(), not with any finalizer registration? 10:22:47 I think you will have to provide some implemention per type, eg FILE handles 10:23:26 let me have a look, I never use it, but I know it is used quite alot internally in the CLR base libraries 10:24:32 http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.runtime.interopservices.safehandle.aspx <-- you should be able to follow the example 10:24:34 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ycbzogq 10:25:28 Actually, the most promising link google gave me was for Mono documentation :) 10:25:35 hehe 10:26:16 -!- mmmdonuts [n=mmmdonut@69.177.214.1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:27:22 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme 10:39:10 -!- leppie 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[n=kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 15:59:30 snorble [n=none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 16:00:48 -!- mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:04:25 hjk [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 16:05:17 Is there a program that will automatically convert tree recursive calls to tail calls? 16:10:40 mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 16:11:24 I am not sure, but I think I read about such a program one past day. 16:11:47 -!- davazp [n=user@218.Red-83-37-233.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:11:52 Maybe not all tree recursions but just some common patterns? 16:12:39 -!- mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:14:01 mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 16:15:39 -!- vb [n=pestario@ool-43522f54.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:16:19 hjk: Continuation Passing Style? 16:16:39 would CPS solve all that problems? 16:16:49 What problems? 16:17:39 i would like to learn how to automatically transform tree recursions to tail calls/loops/whatever, and would like to try that in C too 16:17:56 but first, i would try in scheme, for simplicity 16:18:30 you know, recursion can be a bad thing in C... 16:18:34 -!- mabes [n=mabes@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:20:16 hjk: Read about CPS. Maybe that's what you are searching for. 16:21:32 i know the CPS (a bit), in sillier languages i would have to simulate that over functions, and maybe a trampoline, i think 16:21:40 s/over/with 16:23:09 could you give me a link to something that will convert "normal" scheme code to CPS? i try on my own then. 16:23:15 you may enjoy the scheme interpreters in the PAIP book 16:23:22 s/i try/i could try 16:23:42 they are very simple to understand and come with a CPS version and a tail recursive version 16:24:28 Marc Feeley's presentation (google "90 min scheme compiler") is good too, compiles a subset of scheme to c (also CPS) 16:24:34 beauty: search keyword "PAIP" captured, thx 16:24:40 Or Essentials of Programming Languages. 16:25:05 or Queinnec Lisp in small pieces, which is more advanced imo 16:25:29 that's a lot to read :) 16:26:00 thank you, maybe i will have further questions in some weeks :) 16:26:45 I would second the recommendation for EoPL. 16:27:26 on EoPL i liked how they modeled OO 16:27:35 ok, i'll start with PAIP and make my way through 16:27:49 modeling OO is a religious thing, isnt it? 16:28:29 yep, but most scheme/lisp based text focus on message passing OO or CLOS 16:28:44 i for myself do OO in scheme much like lua does 16:28:48 in EoPL the OO system they build is similar to Java's 16:28:52 simple enough for my purposes 16:29:23 and you get to see how all the things fit into the implementation which is nice 16:30:55 i had a glimpse at the small meroon implementation 16:31:05 and then i had contruct my own :) 16:34:04 16:34:30 hehe 16:36:42 a pretty experiment i remember 16:37:14 was modeling OO as an abstraction on top of first class scopes and dynamic binding 16:37:32 i think it was great and straightforward 16:39:13 i wrote my own (read) one day, to support the obj.member syntax. lol 16:39:53 but it got ugly by time, as syntax sometimes does 16:40:02 mmm, i also did that 16:40:17 maybe we are all crazy 16:40:19 and introduced other different things too 16:40:27 but it's cool to experiment 16:40:29 it's really fun 16:40:30 yes, i did that too 16:40:53 i also had syntax for composing functions, like in arc 16:41:18 but the escapes in strings are still buggy and i never fixed that 16:41:20 i borrowed one thing from arc 16:41:30 it was objects in function call position 16:41:39 but also introduced a new syntax for it 16:41:45 in practice it meant: 16:41:52 "hello":0 -> #\h 16:42:12 "hello":1,3 -> #\ell 16:42:21 it was nice because it also worked with any collection 16:42:42 ouch i meant "hello":1,3 -> "ell" 16:42:46 i was thinking about that too. but i would have had to build a real interpreter or a smarter compiler than my macro system 16:43:16 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit ["Leaving..."] 16:45:50 one nice thing of that 16:45:50 is that it worked with set! 16:45:56 i mean, you can do this: 16:46:05 (define x "Hello") 16:46:21 (set! x:1 #\E) 16:46:28 or even replace ranges 16:46:32 thats cool 16:46:38 (set! x:1,3 "Foo bar") 16:46:45 a stupid side effect 16:46:54 is that you can duplicate an string this way: 16:46:59 (set! x:0,0 x) 16:47:06 my own lisp supports just (set! obj.member 'some-value) 16:47:19 that's nice too 16:47:25 as shorthand for (set! (send obj 'member) 'some-value) 16:47:29 -!- tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 16:47:29 i suposse it's a rite of passage to reinvent lisp 16:47:32 and set! does the magic then 16:47:37 it seems so 16:47:44 ^^ 16:49:32 another minor tweak on the syntax side 16:49:43 was converting: 16:50:11 hjk, regarding transforming tree recursions into tail recursions: Exercise: Implement a depth-first walk in constant space. (You needn't use any automatic transformation from a tree recursion to a tail recursion.) 16:50:12 symbol: arg -> (symbol (arg)) 16:50:12 and: 16:50:22 symbol(arg) -> (symbol arg) 16:50:55 A depth-first walk on a tree with parent->child edges, but no other edges. 16:52:07 Riastradh: i will think about that one 16:52:49 beauty: what did that mean? 16:54:49 hjk i can explain but it will be a bit offtopic for the channel 16:54:56 hehe 16:55:44 i would really enjoy an explanation, but i need to leave for work in half an hour or so 16:56:37 i'm on holidays ^^ 16:57:20 :) sitting on the beach with the umts card? 16:59:51 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 17:00:07 umts card yes 17:00:12 but no beach :(( 17:00:35 :( i noticed your channel 1 min ago... 17:02:35 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 17:05:53 -!- snearch [n=olaf@e179142029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:10:39 kenjin [n=kenjin@119.66.245.26] has joined #scheme 17:10:44 -!- kenjin is now known as kenjin2 17:16:00 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.29.23] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:17:37 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.29.23] has joined #scheme 17:18:09 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.29.23] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:52 thanks for your help, bye! 17:30:57 -!- hjk [n=pkt@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit ["no reason"] 17:31:33 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 17:44:20 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-311358.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47:07 kniu [n=kniu@HOHOHO.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:50:25 Ftynse [n=koric@249-70-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 17:51:50 -!- kenjin2 [n=kenjin@119.66.245.26] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:53:31 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:01:07 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:01:58 -!- ejs [n=eugen@31-8-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:04:21 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:18:09 ejs [n=eugen@31-8-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 18:20:46 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 18:41:25 -!- beauty [n=beauty@62.32.133.149] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:47:42 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-159-21.net.novis.pt] has left #scheme 18:49:59 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 18:50:56 charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 19:03:12 charleyb_ [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 19:03:24 -!- charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:05:00 pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.15.105] has joined #scheme 19:05:47 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 19:07:19 pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 19:10:43 dzhus [n=sphinx@89.178.74.6] has joined #scheme 19:11:03 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:12:38 -!- ejs [n=eugen@31-8-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:12:57 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@209-6-54-113.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:14:53 snearch [n=olaf@e179134086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:15:07 -!- snearch [n=olaf@e179134086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision)] 19:15:38 snearch_ [n=olaf@e179134086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:20:21 Gah! Why is gdb's online help so frustratingly useless? 19:21:01 How does "Gah! Why is gdb's online help so frustratingly useless?" make you feel? 19:21:34 It makes me feel angry! 19:22:49 Don't you have your own debugger? 19:23:51 -!- charleyb_ [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:23:55 Not a machine-level debugger. MIT Scheme has a good source-level debugger, but that doesn't help when I'm making changes deep inside the internals of its code generator, garbage collector, and closure representation. 19:29:13 Ah. 19:29:32 charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 19:30:07 In particular, I am experimenting with changing the format of closures so that consing a closure does not write new machine instructions. Currently it generates a single new machine instruction, a CALL that points at the closure's actual code, leaving a pointer to the closure's environment at the top of the stack. 19:32:21 Naturally, when there is a bug in such a change as this, everything goes to hell. 19:33:00 (But it might not be until a garbage collection that Putin^Whell rears its head.) 19:41:45 davazp [n=user@218.Red-83-37-233.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:42:37 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 19:44:06 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:18 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:07:27 -!- Ftynse [n=koric@249-70-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:07:52 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 20:09:16 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:15:53 pyro2927 [n=joe@134.48.162.62] has joined #scheme 20:17:28 hey, I have an assignment in Scheme, and I'm having trouble understanding the problem. could someone possibly help me understand implementing a type-checker 20:18:08 are you doing a basic type checker? inferrence? polymorphism? 20:18:35 this is all I'm given: Modify your interpreter for Assignment #6 to include a type checker. 20:18:55 what general things does your interpreter handle 20:19:09 the let language 20:19:15 ok, so no functions? 20:19:23 just (let ([x 1] [y 2]) (+ x y)) ? 20:19:26 functions too 20:19:33 http://www.mscs.mu.edu/~mikes/cosc3410/assign7.html 20:19:36 there, that is easier 20:19:39 probably 20:20:10 ok so adding manifest types, no inferrence 20:20:37 I have no idea, that's why I came here.... 20:21:03 this kind of type checker is probably going to be very similar to your interpreter 20:21:09 except instead of evaluation rules you just have checking rules 20:21:32 does your interpreter do something like (if (is-plus op) (+ (eval arg1) (eval arg2))) ? 20:21:45 yea 20:22:00 more or less 20:22:11 right so just replace that with (if (is-plus op) (and (type-check arg1) (type-check arg2))) 20:22:33 so just go through each case you already have and add type rules for it 20:22:43 you can probably guess what the proper type rules are, they are very straight forward 20:23:21 oh sorry that should have been (type-check arg1 'integer) (type-check arg2 'integer) 20:23:21 oh, that is alot easier that I thought it was going to be 20:23:21 since + needs integer 20:24:39 wouldn't this line "let square = proc(num:int)" allow a user to specify their own type? 20:25:06 yea, sort of. functions let you generate new types 20:25:17 type = t | type -> type 20:25:20 did you learn that? 20:25:49 we did Proc * ExpVal -> ExpVal 20:26:05 but nothing with types yet 20:26:16 thats describing the type of a procedure expression 20:26:31 sort of unrelated 20:26:34 oh 20:26:44 then I don't think so 20:26:50 Sergio` [n=Sergio`@89.152.184.128] has joined #scheme 20:26:54 joast [n=rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #scheme 20:27:10 the point is if f = X -> Y , meaning it takes an X and gives back a Y, then (f blah) blah has to have type X 20:27:34 that makes sense 20:27:45 otherwise return type error? 20:27:49 right 20:28:01 and you should knwo all the X's and Y's becuase they are written into the source code 20:29:19 so I need to type-check for each different case? 20:29:30 yea 20:29:54 basically if your program type checks then you should never get a "type mismatch" error at runtime 20:30:06 so just write test cases that screw up the types and if you get a run-time error then your type-checker is broken 20:30:20 well here is the interpreter I have now 20:30:21 http://www.mscs.mu.edu/~mikes/cosc3410/class-log/assign6-soln/interp.scm 20:30:38 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:31:04 looks reasonable 20:31:52 so I need to write (type-check) 20:31:56 it's not included in the libraries 20:32:17 yes 20:35:21 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@89.178.74.6] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:38:55 jonrafkind: like this then? http://pastie.org/710301 20:39:47 no not quite 20:40:03 headed in the wrong direction? 20:40:08 look at the cases expression you use in value-of 20:41:13 (cases apply-expression appl ? 20:42:11 with diff-apply and sum-apply etc 20:42:21 (cases expression exp 20:42:28 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 20:42:33 -!- davazp [n=user@218.Red-83-37-233.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:42:58 oh, my mistake, was looking at value-of-apple 20:44:08 so implement type-check within there? 20:44:39 no, just use a similar structure for the type-check function 20:45:15 so case the expression to determine what type I need, and then check for it? 20:45:30 wait, no 20:45:31 yea 20:45:35 -!- snearch_ [n=olaf@e179134086.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 20:45:35 oh, yea? 20:46:46 oh yea! 20:50:08 so for a num I obviously check with (number? num) 20:50:33 rudybot: eval (number? 6) 20:50:34 *offby1: error: r6rs: must contain a `library' form (for a library) or start with `import' (for a top-level program) in: (#%module-begin) 20:50:39 rudybot: init 20:50:39 *offby1: error: r6rs: must contain a `library' form (for a library) or start with `import' (for a top-level program) in: (#%module-begin) 20:50:41 rudybot: init 20:50:41 *offby1: error: r6rs: must contain a `library' form (for a library) or start with `import' (for a top-level program) in: (#%module-begin) 20:50:43 rudybot: init scheme 20:50:43 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 20:50:45 rudybot: eval (number? 6) 20:50:45 *offby1: ; Value: #t 20:50:49 rudybot: eval (number? 'frotz) 20:50:49 *offby1: ; Value: #f 20:50:52 *whew* 20:50:57 pyro2927: obviously :) 20:51:09 a number is implicitly an integer 20:51:11 you dont need to check anything 20:51:30 but what about for vars and exps? those could be different each time 20:51:41 ah, then your type checker needs to do something interesting! 20:52:38 parse by : and verify? this is where I get lost 20:52:55 my main language is objective-c, so this is quite different for me, but I'm trying 20:53:03 objective-c has types too I think 20:53:43 yea, but it has type checking built in 20:53:47 isKindOf: 20:54:13 that sounds like run-time type reflection 20:54:32 you have the same stuff in scheme with number? and whatever else 20:54:39 yes 20:54:52 but you wuold have the same issue if you were writing this interpeter in objective-c 20:55:07 the values in the language you are evaluating is *not* the same as the values used in the language you are writing the interpreter 20:55:15 they are two separate languages, one is source, the other is implementation 20:55:39 scheme is source, my project is the implementation 20:55:44 in which I can make up new types 20:55:45 yes? 20:56:16 yes 20:56:27 so number? wont really help you, netiher will isKindOf: in objective-c 20:58:43 true 20:59:03 so I need function type-check 20:59:11 which takes two params? 20:59:33 the val and the type it should be? 20:59:47 its a good start 21:01:22 the right direction? 21:01:56 yea 21:04:52 mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 21:05:03 http://pastie.org/710333 21:05:08 closer than before? 21:05:30 a little bit 21:05:34 lisppaste: url? 21:05:34 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 21:05:38 (for future reference) 21:06:34 thanks chandler! 21:07:06 jonrafkind: so is (const-exp right? and I just now need to change what result it returns? 21:07:30 yea 21:08:07 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:08:17 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 21:10:28 and I want to return what type it is? 21:10:38 following t | type -> type 21:12:05 or would it be a BOOL? 21:12:25 BOOL seems to make more sense to me, but I'm usually wrong when it comes to scheme 21:12:42 try it one way or the other and see what happens 21:12:54 if one doesnt work just switch 21:13:55 going back though, why am I casing the expression? why am I not casing the type? isn't that what I want to check against? 21:15:04 hm well I guess you could do it that way. usually people case the expression though 21:15:20 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:15:20 I feel ilke it wouldnt work for some reason or other, but I dont know why not off hand 21:16:01 its sort of like asking "why do I have to run around the track counter-clockwise, cant I run clockwise instead?" well yest, it amounts to the same thing most likely 21:16:20 davazp [n=user@218.Red-83-37-233.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:22 pyro2927 pasted "like this?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90919 21:17:37 or do I need to case inside a case? 21:17:40 nested case? 21:18:17 I think just one case is enough 21:18:28 so was that right ^^^^ ? 21:19:48 -!- cipher [i=weinsd0@monica.cs.rpi.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:22:03 http://www.mscs.mu.edu/~mikes/cosc3410/class-log/nov18/lang.scm 21:22:26 modified lang, seems to make things a little easier 21:27:10 -!- charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:28:38 ASau [n=user@83.69.227.32] has joined #scheme 21:29:41 charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 21:30:17 -!- charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:30:33 sstrickl_ [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:01 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:31:01 charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 21:31:02 -!- sstrickl_ is now known as sstrickl 21:31:20 -!- sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:31:37 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 21:49:33 -!- charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:50:11 -!- pyro2927 [n=joe@134.48.162.62] has quit [] 21:54:35 charleyb [n=charleyb@12.236.109.2] has joined #scheme 21:57:08 bytecolor [n=user@32.153.89.247] has joined #scheme 21:58:07 anyone have a regular expression to match R5RS number formats? 21:58:58 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["-"] 21:59:10 Why do you want a regular expression for that? 21:59:37 Riastradh: playing around with writing a Scheme interpreter in Python 22:00:42 I created one using the BNF in the R5RS doc, but it's quite large 22:01:18 might be easier to write a straightforward lexer 22:01:57 nod, character at a time 22:02:29 The way that one writes a Scheme reader is by recursive descent, character by character. Any other approach is absurd. 22:03:34 -!- masm [n=masm@bl9-115-47.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:03:51 Riastradh: well I was planning on using that method, but I wanted to create some tokens first, identifiers, numbers, literal strings, character literals, etc. 22:04:07 these are well defined in the doc 22:04:59 Yes, but that part of the R5RS is pretty silly. Nobody actually parses Scheme that way. is considerably more sensible. 22:09:00 Riastradh: thanks, but the number defs there are still a bit complex (no pun intended) ;) 22:20:38 Do you guys know of a list of Scheme numbers to use for testing a lexer/parser? I've been borrowing numbers found in guile and mit scheme's test's. 22:32:36 -!- NNshag [i=user@82.253.5.201] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:50:25 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:50:46 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:52:43 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 22:58:18 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:58:37 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:04:05 schmir [n=schmir@p54A90C1A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 23:11:43 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit ["leaving"] 23:11:58 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 23:13:41 jmcphers [n=jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #scheme 23:18:27 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:22:20 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A90C1A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:39:41 -!- Riastradh [n=rias@pool-151-203-9-40.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:44:18 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 23:47:04 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:57:32 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@87.246.15.105] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]