00:00:01 *jcowan* goes to class, very belatedly. @#$* printers. 00:00:03 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:06:42 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:09:27 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:14:33 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-206.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:30:08 caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:31:06 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:32:24 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:32:31 (oh yes, I remember thinking about symbols wrt the separate compilation and linking of cl "lexicons") 00:33:00 -!- caoliver [n=oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:36:42 dmoerner [n=dmr@91-89.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 00:37:46 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:42:44 -!- foof [n=user@FL1-118-110-31-40.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:27 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-33-87.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:45:48 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-206.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:51:03 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-102-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:06:33 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:09:33 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-211.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 01:11:30 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 01:13:08 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-131-41.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:15:24 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 01:17:21 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:22:43 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-73-161.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 01:24:21 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:29:44 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme 01:40:41 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 01:44:11 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:44:49 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-200-195.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:45:52 nickgibbon [n=nring@210.8.201.244] has joined #scheme 01:53:19 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 01:53:41 Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:57:28 -!- wingo [n=wingo@238.Red-81-38-188.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:58:18 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 01:59:15 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 02:05:09 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:05:53 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 02:09:45 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-4e17be180485ead2] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:11:42 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:13:22 -!- gaze_ [n=gaze@ResNet-36-138.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:16:34 QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 02:18:23 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:19:42 -!- eldragon [n=eldragon@84.79.67.254] has left #scheme 02:21:19 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:23:00 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 02:37:03 fpqc [i=Tempest@unaffiliated/scheme] has joined #scheme 02:39:35 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 02:39:38 Save the environment: use continuation passing style! 02:39:40 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 02:43:18 =p 02:43:19 h8 02:43:19 -!- QinGW2 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:47:56 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 02:58:51 -!- arcfide [i=arcfide@140-182-224-74.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 02:59:38 arcfide [i=arcfide@140-182-224-74.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 03:01:50 -!- arcfide [i=arcfide@140-182-224-74.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has left #scheme 03:03:17 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 03:04:54 -!- Axioplase [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:07:59 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-131-41.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:12:11 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 03:18:52 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 03:20:53 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:22:55 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:23:16 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:23:33 -!- bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [] 03:24:26 flippo [n=frivol@unaffiliated/flippo] has joined #scheme 03:24:36 EleminoP [n=EleminoP@iub-vpn-194-34.noc.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 03:25:43 EleminoP pasted "compare files" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/89763 03:25:53 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:26:07 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:26:10 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:26:11 i don't understand why this procedure doesn't close the input ports 03:26:16 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:26:20 -!- fpqc [i=Tempest@unaffiliated/scheme] has left #scheme 03:26:23 chandler , if you're here 03:28:26 mabes_ [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 03:29:13 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #scheme 03:29:21 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 03:37:02 EleminoP, well, when does it close them? 03:38:25 r6rs close-port 03:40:38 incubot: can you think for me for a minute? 03:40:42 I also got a browser window opened, but it too has lots of errors and interesting stuff; gimme a minute to collect them 03:41:12 *sladegen* unclogs his browsers. 03:41:33 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:42:43 Riastradh when it reaches the end of the file 03:43:02 EleminoP, is that the only situation in which the procedure returns? 03:43:25 i'm guessing not, because it does seem to return #t for identical files 03:43:51 though it doesn't close the ports 03:44:20 What are all the paths out of the LOOP, to the return of COMPARE-FILES? 03:44:33 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:45:07 i'm not sure i understand yuo 03:45:16 there aren't any, right? 03:46:08 oh, i understand 03:46:17 just the first 2 conds 03:46:37 If the procedure reaches the end of input, it closes the ports and returns the verdict. 03:46:41 What else can happen? 03:50:34 Riastradh: Save the environment: use continuation passing style! 03:52:53 tjaway [n=timj@e176211035.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 03:53:12 the read-char can mess up? 03:53:20 oh, eof-object isn't a char 03:53:39 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176195251.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:53:47 no 03:54:02 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has left #scheme 03:54:08 EleminoP, suppose READ-CHAR has returned a character, which is not an EOF object. What can happen then? There's a choice. 03:54:44 arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-50-230-249.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:55:40 it checks if they were the same character sort of 03:56:08 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:56:09 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 03:56:16 Right. What happens if they are? 03:56:26 it loops, moves to the next character 03:56:48 What happens if they aren't? 03:57:00 it returns the verdict, which would be false 03:57:08 Did you close the port before returning? 03:57:31 facepalm 03:58:04 well 03:58:16 that was sad 03:58:27 any ways to improve the code you see? 03:58:47 This is why it is preferable to use CALL-WITH-INPUT-FILE rather than OPEN-INPUT-FILE: it closes the port for you any way you return. 03:59:15 ah, my prof. did not teach that 04:00:05 probably because call-with-input-file was written with open-input-file and close-port 04:00:09 or something 04:00:49 (equal? verdict #f) seems awkward 04:01:02 It is. You can use (not verdict) instead. 04:01:04 is there something more eyepleasing i could put there? 04:01:09 ah, ok 04:01:31 thank you 04:01:46 However, note that there is not necessarily one EOF object; different ports may yield different EOF objects. 04:02:24 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:02:27 Although longer, it is better to test whether both, either, or neither of the results of READ-CHAR is an EOF object. 04:02:54 Riastradh, how do you distinguish rewinds from captures by another continuation? 04:03:02 Hmm? 04:03:14 yeah, i actually changed it to (eof-object? (and c1 c2)) 04:03:17 I suppose that's the dynamic-wind vs whatever problem 04:03:20 is that a bit better? 04:03:37 No, EleminoP, that's not really better; in fact, that's no different from (eof-object? c2). 04:03:44 ok, yeah 04:03:57 Fare, sorry, I'm missing some context; can you elaborate? 04:04:01 where you want to always close your resource when you exit the dynamic scope, but reopen it when you enter again, or not close it if you're going to enter again 04:04:21 and differentiate continuation capture used to say implement green threads 04:04:30 from continuation capture within a given thread, etc. 04:04:44 Thanks again Riastradh. Goodnight. 04:04:59 -!- EleminoP [n=EleminoP@iub-vpn-194-34.noc.indiana.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:05:07 Fare, invoking continuations to switch threads should not incur invocation of wind points at all; that is, CWCC is unfit for implementing thread switching. 04:05:56 There is no general way to distinguish transfers of control out of an extent that `intend' to transfer control back into the extent. 04:06:13 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:06:16 wasn't there a discussion where you could extend call/cc with call/*c that was fit for implementing such thread switching? 04:06:40 No, that's pretty backwards. CWCC should be built atop the primitive that is used to implement thread switching. 04:07:22 (returning to transfers of control out of and into extents) On the other hand, given some notion of object finalization, you can associate a finalization procedure with a continuation, so that the implementation can run your resource release action when it can prove that control will never re-enter the extent. 04:07:44 s/with a continuation/with a dynamic extent/1 04:09:01 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:09:22 is that what some people call call/ec 04:10:11 No. That's simply a restricted variant of CWCC that admits only a single escape to a parent of the current continuation. 04:12:03 If you extend the implementation to mark continuations that are captured by CWCC (for CWEC, you need not mark them), then for non-marked continuations, you can prove that when control transfers to them, they will never be referenced later, and you can thus correctly run their finalization procedures immediately. 04:13:16 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:14:13 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:15:13 Riastradh: would call/ec not be continuation that can only be called in the dynamic extent of the procedure passed to it? 04:16:12 Except for the first five words of your sentence, `yes'. 04:16:35 Maybe if you rephrase those five words to be more sensical I can make an answer that sounds better. 04:18:08 ok how about, would call/ec only create a continuation that ... 04:18:25 If you substitute `reify' for `create', then yes. 04:18:28 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:18:36 (The continuation was already created; it simply had no first-class representative.) 04:18:37 ok 04:19:00 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:19:12 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:19:37 thanks :) 04:23:43 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:24:49 -!- mabes_ [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:27:47 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 04:33:29 -!- Fare [n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:34:28 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 04:37:53 mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 04:38:51 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 04:42:48 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 04:43:59 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:55:35 -!- mabes [n=mabes@bmabey.fttp.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:58:02 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 05:01:48 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:08:00 benc__ [i=425c4be4@gateway/web/freenode/x-989824421bc63786] has joined #scheme 05:11:46 -!- zeroish` [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Read error: 148 (No route to host)] 05:11:47 -!- zeroish [n=zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:18:21 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:36:48 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@cpe-173-172-99-25.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:42:22 pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.196.35] has joined #scheme 05:44:34 -!- borism [n=boris@195.50.215.148] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:44:34 -!- incubot [i=incubot@72.51.35.14] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:44:34 -!- minion [n=minion@208.72.159.207] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:44:34 -!- specbot [n=specbot@208.72.159.207] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:44:34 -!- Arelius [n=user@64.174.9.113] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:44:34 -!- Elly [n=pyxystyx@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:44:34 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:44:34 -!- XTL [i=t6haha00@193.167.100.97] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 05:44:54 borism [n=boris@195.50.215.148] has joined #scheme 05:44:54 tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has joined #scheme 05:44:54 Elly [n=pyxystyx@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 05:44:54 XTL [i=t6haha00@193.167.100.97] has joined #scheme 05:44:54 incubot [i=incubot@72.51.35.14] has joined #scheme 05:44:54 Arelius [n=user@64.174.9.113] has joined #scheme 05:44:54 specbot [n=specbot@208.72.159.207] has joined #scheme 05:44:54 minion [n=minion@208.72.159.207] has joined #scheme 06:03:46 nataraj [n=nataraj@122.174.153.174] has joined #scheme 06:04:12 Hi 06:15:41 hi 06:16:27 -!- arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-50-230-249.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 06:18:11 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:21:17 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:46:13 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 06:49:21 jonrafkind, a schemer? 06:50:31 tired of C,C++,pascal,ruby etc 06:50:53 what do i have in scheme? 06:51:31 suggest me ways to get scheme working in Arm-linux 06:53:02 -!- nataraj [n=nataraj@122.174.153.174] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:54:47 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 07:08:22 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:09:34 mikl0 [n=mikl0@cpe-66-68-239-227.rgv.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:11:36 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:19:52 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:21:44 -!- mikl0 [n=mikl0@cpe-66-68-239-227.rgv.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:27:54 -!- TR2N [i=email@89.180.168.67] has left #scheme 07:42:49 -!- benc__ [i=425c4be4@gateway/web/freenode/x-989824421bc63786] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 07:44:47 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 07:50:10 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 07:50:53 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 07:51:13 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 07:54:57 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 07:56:21 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:01:07 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 08:01:28 arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-50-227-128.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 08:01:33 -!- arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-50-227-128.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 08:01:40 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Success] 08:05:18 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:05:41 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 08:06:19 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 08:11:00 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 08:11:36 -!- nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:13:50 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:14:43 jeapostrophe [n=jay@a80-126-103-245.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 08:15:14 -!- untouchable [i=untoucha@dhcp-129-64-166-32.dorm.brandeis.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:16:06 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 08:24:33 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-40.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 08:31:55 -!- QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:32:50 telaviv [n=sean@204.28.116.164] has joined #scheme 08:35:17 -!- Summermute66 [n=scott@98.204.67.114] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:38:54 hello, i'd like to use scheme as a scripting language in my c++ game. I'm looking for an implementation that is 1) Really easy to embed into the game 2) Is really fast 3) if possible uses low amounts of memory and is really small, although thats not as important. Can anyone suggest one ? 08:40:34 tinyscheme is supposedly very easy to embed and very small 08:40:40 I don't know how fast it is 08:42:28 wow that seems really nice thanks sjamaan 08:42:48 yw 08:42:54 it's slow 08:42:56 by the way. 08:43:11 it does direct tree evaluation instead of bytecode compilation 08:45:19 hmmmm :( 08:46:32 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:50:03 xwl` [n=user@123.115.109.57] has joined #scheme 08:53:26 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:58:45 nowhere_man [n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 09:01:40 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 09:04:29 mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 09:07:37 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:08:31 -!- xwl [n=user@125.34.173.96] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:09:52 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-55-40.vinet.ba] has quit [No route to host] 09:09:57 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:11:53 -!- reid04 [n=reid85@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:12:25 reid04 [n=reid85@CPE001cdf73661f-CM001ceacec55e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 09:23:13 telaviv: NaughtyDog (game developers) used an in-house Lisp variant, but I think they used for much more than game scripting and I've no idea, whether they released any code for public consumption. 09:23:47 telaviv: If you google for NaughtyDog Lisp, there's be some relevant info (probably mostly on Lisp success story pages :)). 09:23:50 What's the Lisp Abuse used again? 09:23:50 that was used for shader-generation iirc 09:27:38 apparently a Common Lisp 09:32:21 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:32:58 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:43:20 schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has joined #scheme 09:44:33 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:47:45 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:54:43 telaviv: you can try Ypsilon 09:54:51 QinGW1 [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 09:55:23 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@91-89.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:56:46 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:57:24 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:57:34 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-212-148-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 09:58:27 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:58:27 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 09:58:27 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] 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10:31:17 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #scheme 10:31:17 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 10:31:17 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:32:42 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:32:42 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:32:42 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:32:42 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:32:42 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:32:51 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:33:08 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 10:33:08 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 10:33:08 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #scheme 10:33:08 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 10:33:08 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:33:28 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 10:36:47 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:47 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:47 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:47 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:36:47 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:37:10 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 10:37:10 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 10:37:10 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #scheme 10:37:10 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 10:37:10 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:40:25 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:40:25 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:40:25 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:40:25 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:40:25 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:40:54 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 10:40:54 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 10:40:54 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #scheme 10:40:54 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 10:40:54 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:41:55 -!- jao [n=jao@80.31.223.187] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:44:15 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:15 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:15 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:15 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:15 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:44:31 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@a80-126-103-245.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [] 10:44:43 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 10:44:43 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 10:44:43 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #scheme 10:44:43 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 10:44:43 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:48:03 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:48:03 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:48:03 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:48:03 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:48:03 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:48:10 shyam_k [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has joined #scheme 10:48:27 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 10:48:27 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 10:48:27 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #scheme 10:48:27 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 10:48:27 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:49:53 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:49:53 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:49:53 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:49:53 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:49:53 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:50:17 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 10:50:17 z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #scheme 10:50:17 j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #scheme 10:50:17 rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #scheme 10:50:17 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:50:22 when i get an error message, can i also get the name of the procedure which was running just before the error happend? 10:51:17 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:51:17 -!- rapacity [n=prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:51:17 -!- j0ni [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:51:17 -!- z0d [n=z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:51:17 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 10:51:17 j0ni_ [n=joni@192.219.30.200] has joined #scheme 10:51:22 crypto_ [n=z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #scheme 10:51:22 rapacity [n=prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 10:51:33 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@208.92.234.202] has joined #scheme 10:51:57 like some times i get errors like a null has been passed as an argument to safe-car etc.. it would be better to know where it have reached and where it is passing the null to car.. 10:52:43 -!- crypto_ is now known as z0d 10:55:46 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:56:38 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:00:55 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:01:27 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 11:02:38 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:09:08 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:17:18 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:20:01 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:26:26 -!- shyam_k [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:31:22 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [] 11:34:34 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 11:37:18 -!- Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:38:33 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:48:19 sbt [n=sbt@234.80-203-17.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 11:53:55 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme 11:56:12 . 12:31:02 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joined #scheme 12:35:21 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 12:35:26 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 12:35:31 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(CH: c = Aleph_1.) He failed to answer it during his lifetime, and the effort drove him mad. He died in an asylum. 12:40:31 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 12:40:36 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 12:40:43 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is a further discontinuity 12:41:47 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 12:41:52 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 12:41:57 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#scheme 12:53:08 ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ 12:53:13 ............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ 12:53:20 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............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ 12:53:34 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-134-66-143.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 12:53:35 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[n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:38:01 telaviv, get that cat off your keyboard 13:38:39 maybe he has passed out 13:42:39 shyam_k [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has joined #scheme 13:45:18 if a system is having a set of predicates which share a complex task, is there anyway to avoid repetition of that task? something equivalent to a static variable? i mean how to avoid running a complex task again if its already evaluated? 13:48:07 shyam_k: Memoization, perhaps? 13:52:32 masm: i am yet to reach the part which explains memorization:) so may be i should just ignore it for the moment;-) 13:52:42 *memoization.. 13:54:17 but that was certainly great to know:) 13:54:48 0.0000000000.. 13:55:08 ? 13:56:24 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:00:12 arnor [n=arnor@p4FFF2377.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:00:28 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 14:05:51 -!- 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[n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:24:49 also, i'd like to light LED's connected to the MCU ports from scheme in response ;) 18:25:41 is that a good way of doing it ? may be it's easier to send strings even without the ()-bracets ?> 18:26:49 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 18:29:13 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:33:30 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:33:41 -!- untouchable [i=untoucha@dhcp-129-64-166-32.dorm.brandeis.edu] has quit ["( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )"] 18:36:17 untouchable [i=untoucha@dhcp-129-64-166-32.dorm.brandeis.edu] has joined #scheme 18:38:24 mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme 18:44:17 dmoerner [n=dmr@91-89.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 18:46:21 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-247.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:58:34 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:58:40 leppie [n=lolcow@dsl-243-43-173.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 19:03:09 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 19:04:57 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 19:14:33 schmir [n=schmir@p54A911D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:14:45 shyam_k [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has joined #scheme 19:24:45 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 19:30:03 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-33-214.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme 19:31:00 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 19:31:13 Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 19:36:44 jao [n=jao@80.31.223.187] has joined #scheme 19:40:58 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A911D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:41:15 schmir [n=schmir@p54A911D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 19:43:42 i'm not too sure, do i need some sort of eval on the input port ? 19:44:33 with settings LEDs on the scheme side it's simply sending strings to the output port .. 19:44:57 and then coding the MCU to accept those strings the right way 19:59:57 BatWing [i=86c15ee3@gateway/web/freenode/x-d7ac8a81091f684b] has joined #scheme 20:00:07 "The namespace for function names is separate from the namespace for data variables." (in CL, while this is not so in scheme) Any other differences I should know about? 20:02:36 minion: advice for BatWing 20:02:36 BatWing: #11944: Yes, that's what it's supposed to do when you say that. 20:02:41 "Lisp's biggest problem is that there's no overriding standard everyone sticks to. You don't just have to pick between Common Lisp and Scheme; you have to pick between several incompatible implementations of Common Lisp and several incompatible implementations of Scheme, as well as other little things like Arc and Clojure." - Oooh, bad. is this true? 20:03:03 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057282.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:04:43 BatWing: generally the most common CL implementations don't differ very much, certainly not enough to call them dialects 20:05:20 fufie, ah, in that case lisp is probably in a much better position than C++ 20:05:35 which it seems to be in just about every way 20:05:44 BatWing: depends on what you mean by c++ 20:05:55 BatWing: i heard some one said like "but as you learn lisp, you get to learn that solving a problem is by developing a language" 20:05:58 Fufie, that's my point lol :) 20:06:05 BatWing, that's like saying "Scripting's biggest problem is there's no overrriding standard" 20:06:14 because Perl, Python and Ruby all exist 20:06:35 `Lisp' is not one language; it is a family of related languages. 20:06:56 samth, Ah, so if I specify exactly what dialect I'm speaking, I'm OK and am not going to be getting emails from people saying, "OMG your program doesn't compile" 20:07:06 BatWing: the bigger problem with c++ is not the difference between visual studio and g++, but more the difference between posix, the gap between windown and *nix 20:07:06 right 20:07:06 ? 20:07:29 Fufie, yeah 20:07:31 BatWing: and to a certain extent the difference between different versions of boost 20:08:34 the more I read about lisp, the more I wonder why all computers aren't lisp machines 20:09:11 why not do everything right from the get-go? 20:09:13 all cars cant be a mercedes benz either 20:09:35 Not even the cdrs 20:10:04 Fufie, no but if Tucker automobiles had gotten onto the market, most cars would probably have adopted Tucker-like features. 20:10:34 Fufie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Tucker_Sedan 20:10:43 saw the movie 20:10:46 cdrs are all lists... 20:11:23 lisp seems like the Tucker of languages 20:11:46 i am probably talking nonsense here 20:12:04 is there anything really genuinely less efficient about a pure lisp machine? 20:12:37 Processors are hard to design. Putting language-specific logic in the processor didn't turn out to be a winning design strategy. The effort wasn't worth the cost. 20:12:39 efficient for who? 20:12:44 one that goes directly from assembly to minimalist lisp to fully implemented lisp 20:13:02 chandler, yes, i didn't mean lisp in the processor 20:13:02 Oh, you're not asking about the processor level. 20:13:10 my bad 20:13:20 I meant a purely lisp BIOS and OS 20:13:50 a new OS is rarely efficient because most users aren't efficient without their usual apps 20:13:51 compiled from assembly to lisp to lisp 20:14:18 *Riastradh* blinks. 20:14:20 Fufie, yeah, but that's probably changing with the advent of cloud computing and virtualization 20:14:29 er 20:14:29 I'm not sure why you would care about the BIOS. At the OS level, I haven't seen kernels written in higher-level, garbage collected languages catch on; C++ seems to be a new innovation in the OS community. I'm not sure if it's just conservatism or that the extra effort involved in implementing high-level language features at the kernel feature is not worth the benefit. 20:14:35 advent of GUI cloud computing i mean 20:14:36 Compiled from assembly to Lisp to Lisp? 20:15:32 chandler, I think yours is the most informative response I've heard today (though not the only one by any means) 20:15:37 BatWing: we've had x-terminals and apps on the server before.. 20:15:46 yeah but not like it is now 20:16:00 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:04 baah, yes we've had it on the server before 20:16:39 (C++? New? Is Apple excluded from the OS community? As I understand it they've had C++ in their kernel for nearly ten years now.) 20:16:41 i mean going from terminal services like telnet to VNC, Remote Desktop and/or Live Mesh is a real advance 20:16:50 I'm not sure what "GUI cloud computing" has to do with anything from a technical perspective. Cloud computing is, as far as I can tell, a buzzword. 20:18:00 BatWing: i don't really see how vnc and remote desktop is any different to running X remotely 20:18:50 Riastradh: I have a mental block around all things related to xnu. 20:19:03 It's for the protection of my sanity. 20:19:12 Fufie, well you could also say "i don't really see how a GUI is any different from a command prompt" but modern OSs need GUIs now. 20:19:23 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:27 Also, isn't (wasn't) BeOS all C++? 20:19:48 I have no idea what the BeOS kernel looks like. 20:20:09 Also, my understanding is that the C++ in xnu is in a very device-driver specific part of the kernel. 20:20:10 it was. 20:20:24 Rufie, I'm thinking, why not put the OS and web browser in the BIOS and only get plugins and applications and data from the hard drive? 20:20:29 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 20:20:45 Well, all of IOKit is C++, I believe. 20:20:51 BatWing: You're using technical terms, but I don't think you're making a technical argument. 20:20:54 BatWing: that doesnt sound very cloudy 20:21:04 chandler, it's not really a technical argument no 20:21:18 BatWing: The purpose of the BIOS is to enumerate hardware and load the kernel. Putting that in the BIOS would mean that you need a pre-BIOS BIOS to find the BIOS. 20:21:35 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 20:21:41 Whoa! Do you think it's safe to have a pre-meeting meeting before we've discussed its preliminaries? 20:21:52 chandler, you have a point there. so it would be better to call what i am proposing, a "firmware OS" 20:22:03 How is this different from Splashtop? 20:22:35 haven't seen splashtop yet 20:22:40 am looking at their page now 20:23:34 splashtop appears to be one of a number of firmware OSs already in existence 20:23:44 In any event, this discussion doesn't seem to be very Schemely at this point. 20:23:50 oh you're right 20:23:55 kk lets forget it 20:24:09 i'm still divided between CL and scheme 20:24:19 as to which i should be learning first 20:24:56 though what i read about CL having different namespaces for fuctions and variables makes me think, "chalk up one for CL" 20:25:01 I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter much. I learned both roughly simultaneously; you might try doing that too. 20:25:15 kk 20:25:32 well i gotta go do some stuff now. be back another time hopefully :) 20:25:35 -!- BatWing [i=86c15ee3@gateway/web/freenode/x-d7ac8a81091f684b] has quit [] 20:26:53 Riastradh: Regarding C++ being a new innovation, from what I've seen the use of C++ in kernelspace has been a relatively restricted subset of the language so far. I believe IOkit is an example of it; I don't think it allows many of the interesting features of C++ to be used. 20:27:07 As I said, I have no idea what BeOS looks like at the kernel level. 20:27:22 Well, most people don't use most interesting features of C++. 20:27:33 For example, Google summarily prohibits the use of exceptions in their C++ code. 20:27:54 If you aren't going to use exceptions for non-local exits, I'm not sure why you would use C++ in the first place. 20:28:06 does mozilla still deny templates and exceptions? 20:35:22 See for more details. 20:37:26 Cheery [n=cheery@a91-155-216-147.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme 20:38:43 Riastradh: Egads. Exceptions are one of the few features of general expressive utility in C++. 20:39:00 does there exist some list about object systems, their implementation and behavior in different languages? 20:41:27 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A911D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:41:56 I'm in particular attracted to such objects systems that think of objects themselves being method/member containers. 20:42:39 my major usecase for objects is to avoid global namespace clutter. 20:43:16 generics are useful, but they do clutter global namespaces to be useful. 20:46:43 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:46:53 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 20:49:34 frivol [n=frivol@unaffiliated/flippo] has joined #scheme 20:50:24 -!- shyam_k [n=user@unaffiliated/shyam-k/x-8459115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:52:55 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has joined #scheme 20:54:33 Cheery: I'm not sure I know of a definitive survey that I could point you to, but you might find some useful information on Wiki (Ward's, not Wikipedia). 20:55:42 Ward's wiki? 20:58:45 What is the question? 20:59:04 Or did you mean to type that into the handy little search box at google.com? 20:59:24 just did that, found little bit of nothing. 21:00:03 Really. I guess that http://c2.com/cgi/wiki isn't the top hit on that search in your universe. 21:06:41 Cheery, Ward Cunningham created the term "wiki" and the canonical implementation of it is at the URL to which chandler just made reference. 21:07:58 The purpose of the original wiki was to document software design patterns, which naturally involves a lot of talk about different object-oriented styles. 21:11:58 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:19:52 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:20:24 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 21:28:23 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:33:51 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:35:56 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:04 I am still stuck on this business of monomorphic type assignment. 21:39:28 I don't understand how to systematically traverse the expression tree, since it seems to be necessary to go sometimes upwards, sometimes downwards. How do you know when you are done? 21:39:56 There are three possible outcomes: all variables have types, some variable has an inconsistent type, and some variables cannot be typed, but I don't know how to determine when I'm in the third state. 21:41:49 You need to be more specific. First, what is your model of types, irrespective of how they are assigned/inferred? 21:42:37 There are a few simple types, and then there are procedures which accept any number of typed arguments and return a typed result. 21:43:15 The only aggregate type is a vector of doubles, which for my purposes is just the simple type "vector". 21:44:11 Are procedures monomorphically typed? 21:44:55 Yes, all types are monomorphic, including procedure types. C, only simpler. 21:45:22 Next, what is the general approach to inference that you want to take? 21:45:50 -!- gnomon is now known as _ed 21:45:51 None, so that all variables must have their types declared, from which the types of expressions are immediately derived? 21:45:57 -!- _ed is now known as gnomon 21:46:36 I want to be able to infer as much as possible, and complain if contradictory types are inferred. If no type can be inferred for certain variables, I wish to report that so that the user can add typing information. 21:48:10 So given a procedure definition, I know some but not all of the types of the procedures it invokes (in particular, I know the types of all primitives), but I don't know the types of its arguments, nor the type of its result. 21:48:12 So just pass over the tree once, unifying types wherever you encounter several sources of information about a common type. If there is a contradiction in the unification, report it. If, at the end, not all logic variables in the unification are bound, report that. 21:48:31 Pass over it bottom-up or top-down? 21:49:03 Both seem to be required. 21:49:18 It doesn't really matter, but it is probably easiest to choose some sequential depth-first order, rather than some interleaved breadth-first order. 21:52:59 Here's some simple Scheme code to perform Hindley-Milner type inference: . You can take that, rip out the type generalization parts, and then add a check to INFER-TYPE-TOP ensuring that APPLY-SUBSTITUTIONS returns a type without any logic variables. 21:53:39 I'll look at the code, but I don't see how any single scan can wring out all the type information. 21:53:58 The only magic is in the unification. 21:54:13 Can you give an example of where recursive unification in a single pass would not reveal necessary information? 21:54:26 I'm trying to. The trouble is, my intuition about the problem is as yet unclear. 21:55:02 That is, unification transmits information both forward and backward: it can tell you more information about a term you had discerned before that had some logic variables left in it, and it can inform you about a new term with logic variables based on old information you had already learned. 21:56:58 I understand that too -- I've studied a few pure-Prolog implementations. 21:57:57 The problem, I think, arises when a procedure calls one of its arguments, as (define (x y z) (y z)). 21:58:12 It seems to me that I have to examine the whole program for calls to x before I can figure out what the type of y is. 21:58:27 Yes...? 21:58:56 But some of them will be unknown-procedure calls like this, and I will not know, in general, how to find them. 21:59:21 Then you can't monomorphise those procedures. 21:59:34 What type do you want such a procedure to have? 21:59:44 bgs100 [n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #scheme 21:59:48 If you follow Riastradh's advice given above, those types will be treated as polymorphic until they are unified with information from a call site. 21:59:58 Sorry, `some of them'? As long as there is one call site that gives you the information, that's enough. 22:00:12 The unification will propagate that information to all the other sites too. 22:00:24 *jcowan* nods slowly. 22:00:31 This is, I think the right approach. You can't monomorphise that procedure via type information in absence of a call site. You could force the user to declare a type in this situation, but I don't think it's necessary. 22:00:42 As I said, the only magic is in the use of unification. 22:01:18 So I can process the forest of definitions in any order? 22:01:43 Yes. 22:01:57 Unification doesn't care what order you run things in, provided that there be no contradictions. 22:02:07 chandler: Why is it not necessary to force the user to declare a type? 22:02:08 (If you want to report contradictions, then the order you choose matters.) 22:03:51 jcowan: Because the necessary information will be provided when its call site, the call site of its call site, etc. is processed. 22:04:29 If all types are monomorphic, all called procedures will have a single, concrete type at the end of this process. 22:04:31 Ah. But this is not a whole-program compiler; it generates libraries. 22:05:04 What combines the libraries? The ordinary C linker? 22:05:44 -!- samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:06:02 The idea here is to compile floating-point Scheme code into C, which can then be invoked from a Scheme FFI (or stand-alone, if that's all you are doing, but typically not). 22:06:06 jcowan, do you want monomorphism at the end of every compilation unit (library)? If so, then you will need to require the remainder of the partial information from the user. If not, then you can derive it from the rest of the program when you link it (effectively producing an incremental whole-program compiler which works simply because unification doesn't care what order you run it in). 22:06:34 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:06:35 Riastradh: clearly the first case is right. 22:08:50 mikl0 [n=mikl0@cpe-66-68-239-227.rgv.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:09:09 OK, so do that. 22:11:58 schmir [n=schmir@p54A90C6D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:13:24 hmm.. didn't found much from object systems in ward's wiki or wikipedia 22:14:17 just some stuff about metaobject protocol but I didn't find much interest on it after all. 22:15:37 I suppose my problem is psychological. I find it impossible to convince myself that unification alone can squeeze out all the information implicitly available, even though I can't construct any counterexamples. 22:15:58 Is there a simple and intuitive proof that what unification can't find, cannot be found otherwise? 22:16:17 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme 22:16:42 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-247.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:16:48 What are you concerned that it can't find? 22:16:53 I don't know! 22:17:09 I just know that my inability to find a counterexample doesn't mean a proposition is true. 22:17:48 -!- pavelludiq [n=quassel@91.139.196.35] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:17:51 IOW, that it would give up too soon and diagnose the need for explicit typing information when if I were just a little more clever I could do without. 22:19:56 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:19:57 doing type inferencing? 22:20:04 Yes. 22:20:25 The algorithm doesn't "give up" per se. 22:20:51 It may not discover type assignments that you wanted it to discover. But if it doesn't discover them, then there wasn't anything in the program to imply them. 22:20:57 In a monomorphic type system, if some piece of information is available that unambiguously determines the type of a term, that information will be applied wherever it can be used. 22:21:01 hm.. with unification you find the variables/nodes that must be of same type in order for code to be correct? 22:21:43 chandler: Quite so. It's Riastradh's second sentence that worries me, probably pointlessly. 22:21:54 Cheery: I'm not sure what you're asking, but well-typedness is not the same thing as program correctness. 22:21:57 "if it doesn't discover them, then there wasn't anything in the program to imply them": how is that known? 22:22:18 chandler: so s/correct/well-typed/ 22:22:42 jcowan: Because if it was present, then it would have been used! The algorithm doesn't skip anything. 22:24:09 jcowan, suppose you want a variable x to have type T. If there is no application of the binder of x to an argument of type T, or no reference to x in an operand position for an application of a function whose argument type is T, then unification will not discover that x should have type T. But in that case, there was nothing in the program to tell you the type of x (or something told you a different type). 22:25:08 jcowan: how else you might check program types than by unification? 22:25:38 jcowan: I would honestly suggest that you play with Riastradh's implementation of Hindley-Milner a bit, in order to bolster your intuition about the algorithm. 22:25:46 chandler: A good idea. 22:28:37 Leonidas1 [n=Leonidas@chronon.pointtec.de] has joined #scheme 22:28:40 Riastradh, your argument speaks only of arguments. 22:29:06 -!- Leonidas [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:29:41 hmm.. 22:29:52 jcowan: What else should it speak of? 22:29:56 That's where values for variables come from, yes -- that and binding expressions (i.e. LET), which H-M treats differently, but the difference between (LET x E E*) and ((LAMBDA (x) E*) E) in H-M is only whether the type is copied for each reference to x or not. 22:29:58 this gives me some thought on designing my own object system. 22:30:30 I have to treat LET and LAMBDA differently, although I transform LAMBDA in operator position into LET. 22:30:42 Why? 22:30:55 LAMBDA in operand or value position can't make references to free non-global variables. 22:30:59 (C again.) 22:31:07 For purposes of typing, you don't need to treat them differently. 22:31:18 Right. I meant in general. 22:31:53 This distinction should be introduced once the program has been typed. 22:32:05 Fair enough. 22:33:25 I think I write this up and then get to sleep 22:33:39 each object in the language must be typed 22:34:32 As opposed to written by hand, I presume. Penmanship has taken such a disastrous turn in recent years. 22:34:47 Hmm. Suppose that there is only one procedure in the program whose arguments have the type (double, double, string, double). Then an unknown-procedure call whose arguments have those types must be a call to that very procedure, even if unification cannot determine that. 22:34:53 Cheery: If a basic discussion of type inference is giving you ideas for a new object system, you probably don't have enough knowledge to draw from when designing an object system in the first place. 22:36:07 chandler: yes and no. 22:36:39 jcowan: How does that work, if the set of procedures in the program is not determined until link time? 22:36:52 jcowan, in that case, the one procedure's body must have the unknown procedure call of which you speak, since there are no other procedures in which to put that procedure call; but in that case, where is the operator of this unknown procedure call bound? 22:36:57 I guess I'll do well without much arcane knowledge, anyway I know when the object system actually does well. 22:37:14 which means I know when I'll need more of 'something' 22:37:50 chandler: The compiler must have either a type declaration or a definition for every identifier in the part of the program under its current purvey. 22:37:57 chandler: also, I'm not doing anything new and I know that. :) 22:39:18 anyway there's everything quite fine stuff existing already, I just need to find it out. 22:39:20 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-251.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 22:39:22 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-251.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:39:56 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-251.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 22:40:00 the current draft I'm thinking would be abstractly described this way: 22:40:02 chandler: IOW there is no unification across compilation unit boundaries. 22:40:10 *jcowan* tries to understand Riastradh. 22:41:13 each object has a type. each type has an interface. 22:41:16 jcowan, you told me that there is one procedure in your program. 22:41:23 jcowan, you also told me that there is a procedure call in your program. 22:41:43 No, that was a restrictive relative clause after "one procedure". 22:41:46 each type must be possible to difference from each other, and it must be possible to group them. 22:42:16 jcowan, oh, I misparsed. 22:42:17 that is, to test whether certain object is of certain type in some group 22:42:43 jcowan, your situation then was not about inferring types in the program, but rather about inferring other information in the program from the types. 22:43:08 jcowan: Right; if I understand you correctly, you expect that a concrete type signature be provided for procedures that are not declared within the compilation unit. Is this correct? 22:43:09 Yes, I see that now. 22:43:14 chandler: Yes. 22:43:32 interface: getattr, setattr, call 22:43:57 In this case, information about the type of those procedures will propogate from their uses-as-values to their call sites. 22:44:02 chandler: although it is not limited to procedures. 22:44:29 Oh, sure. Nothing about declared procedures is an issue for me. 22:44:49 It would be most inconvenient to the programmer to have to declare the procedures that are also defined, however. 22:45:10 Then I'm not sure what information you gain from the knowledge that there is only one procedure in the program that takes a particular set of argument types. 22:45:28 I agree; I was mistaken. 22:45:55 chandler: your in right and I feel stupid because of that. 22:46:10 My in right what? 22:46:11 Cheery: Feeling stupid is part of the job. 22:46:30 The important thing is to bound the stupidity by being aware of what you don't know. 22:47:10 My problem here is being aware of what I do know, I suppose.... 22:47:17 Cheery: Honestly, I am not able to make much sense out of anything you say. I will try to avoid commenting on it in the future. 22:47:46 I've solved the problem of my personal arrogance, but I don't know what to do about the problem of my forgetfulness and thickness, which can only increase with time. 22:48:03 jcowan: If I write a procedure (define (f x y) (x y)) which is never called within the compilation unit but is exported from the library, what choice do I have but to supply a concrete type for the definition? 22:48:40 None. In no case do I expect to eliminate all type declarations. I only want to reduce programmer effort so far as possible, not further. 22:48:45 chandler: that must be because I describe it quite badly. I get to sleep and tomorrow I'm trying the stuff I thought about today. 22:49:16 Cheery: Honestly, I've never noticed a significant difference in the level of comprehensibility of your output, so I doubt tiredness has much to do with it. 22:49:59 jcowan: I think the best thing to do is to work with Riastradh's code until you are comfortable with it. 22:50:07 heh. didn't meant to mean it that way in the first place. :) 22:50:10 I agree, so I'll shut up about the subject now. 22:50:17 -!- dudleyf [n=dudleyf@65.243.31.107] has quit [] 22:50:40 Anyhow, I have written much of Flopsy's runtime and have some new ideas about the treatment of pseudo-procedures, so I can work on those. 22:51:00 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@91-89.res.pomona.edu] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:51:04 In retrospect, BIND should be spelled BIND*, although what should be spelled BIND doesn't have a good definition. 22:51:15 dmoerner [n=dmr@91-89.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme 22:51:25 jcowan: Whoops; did I come across rudely to you? I wasn't suggesting that you shut up. But if your intuition is telling you that there is something that will not be inferred by unification but which can logically be inferred some other way from the program, then you probably won't be able to make that intuition concrete until you have a good feel for the algorithm. 22:51:25 what is BIND? 22:51:48 chandler: No, not at all, I merely am putting that part of the problem on hold. 22:52:38 Another thing that troubles me is whether to implement the polymorphic-variadic procedures of SRFI-34, which have to be syntax in Flopsy, using a low-level definition or with syntax-rules (which effectively means that there is an upper bound to how many vectors you can pass to them). 22:52:52 karme [n=user@kallisto.karme.de] has joined #scheme 22:53:10 Blorg [n=blorg@dynamic-addr-129-168.resnet.rochester.edu] has joined #scheme 22:53:21 In practice I suppose that things like VECTOR-MAP will rarely, if ever, be applied to more than a few vectors simultaneously, but I feel a little funny about actually picking a hard limit, like 7. 22:53:47 would anybody here be kind enough to help me with a problem I'm having with scheme? 22:53:50 Read BIND just like LET*, except that each right-hand expression is not the value for the left-hand variable, but a unification step that, when run, yields a value for the left-hand variable. 22:54:02 Ah. I haven't read your code yet. 22:54:08 jcowan: Type inference can be brought to bear on this problem as well. You can construct concrete instantiations of the procedures based on the types of their arguments. 22:54:08 Blorg, if you describe it precisely, and paste the current state of your code to , perhaps. 22:54:51 Blorg: The rule #0 of IRC is "don't ask to ask, just ask". 22:55:02 chandler: Or just count them, yes, since it so happens that the polymorphism depends directly on the number of arguments (in MAP, the passed function takes as many arguments as were passed to MAP, e.g.) 22:56:01 I'm using R5RS and (if (eqv? (caddr '(a '() '())) '()) #t #f) is returning #f even though (caddr '(a '() '())) returns '() 22:56:10 is '() not eqv? to '()? 22:56:47 Blorg, (EQV? '() '()) is true, but (EQV? ''() '()) is flase. 22:56:48 False, even. 22:57:24 Blorg: Whenever you see ' within the scope of ', think twice. 22:57:34 rudybot_: eval '() 22:57:34 chandler: ; Value: () 22:57:37 rudybot_: eval ''() 22:57:37 chandler: ; Value: (quote ()) 22:59:05 Heh. Well, that makes it more obvious. 22:59:15 incubot: '() 22:59:16 () 22:59:20 incubot: ''() 22:59:20 (quote ()) 22:59:28 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:59:57 (fluid-let ((*unparser-abbreviate-quotations?* #f)) (run-me-a-scheme-irc-repl-bot-please))... 23:00:13 Hm. Chicken displays that behavior at an interactive REPL for me, but PLT does not. 23:00:28 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@88.128.86.208] has quit [] 23:00:38 chandler: Which behavior 23:00:39 ? 23:00:51 (um, #t, not #f, there) 23:00:58 jcowan: Displaying (quote ()) instead of '(). 23:01:31 Ah. Chicken's printer never generates ', AFAIK. 23:01:38 rudybot_: '#'() 23:01:38 chandler: eh? Try "rudybot_: help". 23:01:41 rudybot_: eval '#'() 23:01:41 chandler: ; Value: (syntax ()) 23:03:28 thank you 23:03:45 I'm new with Scheme so some of the weird pointers and whatnot are confusing 23:04:09 Basically, quote means that what follows is uninterpreted data, so there is rarely a reason to put another ' inside it. 23:04:35 rudybot_: eval (parameterize ((pretty-print-abbreviate-read-macros #t)) (display ''())) 23:04:36 chandler: ; stdout: "(quote ())" 23:04:40 Hm. 23:05:35 rudybot_: eval (begin (require scheme/pretty) (parameterize ((pretty-print-abbreviate-read-macros #t)) (pretty-print ''()))) 23:05:35 chandler: ; stdout: "'()\n" 23:05:43 There we go! 23:05:48 Yes, removing the quotes on '() within the list '(a () () ) works 23:06:28 Sorry; my evaluations have been about trying to get the behavior I'm looking for from PLT, not about your problem. 23:06:47 well, whatever you were saying, it helped me 23:07:18 Well, the first thing I said was about your problem. 23:08:08 And now it's fixed, which I'm thankful for, so now I promise to return some time when I'm more skilled with Scheme and help a noob out in exchange :) 23:08:10 -!- Blorg [n=blorg@dynamic-addr-129-168.resnet.rochester.edu] has quit ["Java user signed off"] 23:09:54 What's a "noob"? 23:09:55 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["."] 23:10:20 It's the old, archaic spelling of "nub". 23:10:45 ah, that totally makes sense then. 23:10:51 An even older archaic spelling is "newbie". 23:11:08 You skipped over "newb" and "n00b". 23:11:16 Apparently I'm living in prehistory with the term `novice'. 23:11:28 An even more ancient: "new guy". back in a more civilized age. 23:11:35 Newbie < new boy, which is merely English for novice. 23:12:18 -!- Cheery [n=cheery@a91-155-216-147.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 23:12:21 Is it just coincidence that "noob" is close to "boob"? 23:12:44 Coincidence or phonaesthesia, as you will. 23:12:51 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:13:35 slip, slide, slither, sloppy, slimy, sleazy are probably unrelated, but mutually reinforce one another due to their phonetic similarity. 23:14:22 slick, sloshy. strange. 23:14:38 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:15:53 bang, beat, batter, bruise, blister and bash is another set. 23:16:34 Don't forget bludgeon, bonk, and buffet. 23:16:41 (although not buffet) 23:16:42 Excellent! 23:17:08 glass, glisten, glow, glare, glaze, glint, glitter, glory, gleam, glade. 23:18:51 snail, snake, snitch, sneak, sneeze, sniffle, snicker, snivel, snoop, snore, snorkel, snout, snot, snuff. 23:20:33 Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam, and spam. 23:20:42 cling, clang, clutch, cleave, ... oh, very well. 23:21:21 *jcowan* decides that processing up to seven vectors elementwise will suffice. 23:21:47 There were only seven dwarves, in any case; that ought to be enough for anybody. 23:22:24 Quite so. Fire seven times tried this. 23:23:48 "Shakespeare never had six lines together without a fault. Perhaps you may find seven, but this does not refute my general assertion." --Sam. Johnson 23:24:40 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has left #scheme 23:25:13 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:25:13 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-212-148-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:25:13 -!- incubot [i=incubot@72.51.35.14] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:25:13 -!- minion [n=minion@208.72.159.207] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:25:13 -!- specbot [n=specbot@208.72.159.207] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:25:13 -!- Arelius [n=user@64.174.9.113] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:25:13 -!- Elly [n=pyxystyx@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:25:13 -!- XTL [i=t6haha00@193.167.100.97] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:25:13 -!- tessier [n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 23:25:14 O brave old #scheme, that has such people in't! 23:25:18 tessier [n=treed@216.105.40.113] has joined #scheme 23:25:21 Arelius [n=user@64.174.9.113] has joined #scheme 23:25:22 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 23:25:23 Elly [n=pyxystyx@fenrir.mimisbrunnr.net] has joined #scheme 23:27:11 By the way, in case any of you didn't get the announcement and thereby missed out on the excitement, MIT Scheme runs natively on the x86-64 now. 23:27:53 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-73-161.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 23:28:54 I saw, but I have not had a chance to see for myself. 23:29:11 That's cause for celebration. Bust out the sparkling water! 23:30:14 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 23:33:17 arcfide [i=arcfide@adsl-99-186-237-83.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:33:45 TR2N` [i=email@89.180.150.34] has joined #scheme 23:34:00 XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 23:35:47 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:39:34 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-220-170.net.novis.pt] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 23:39:39 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 23:43:23 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-73-161.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:48:12 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057282.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:53:01 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:56:11 schmir` [n=schmir@p54A90C6D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme