00:01:58 ecyrb [i=bamoore@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG] has joined #scheme
00:03:30 <lisppaste> ecyrb pasted "macro defining macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88315
00:04:22 <ecyrb> Trying to write a define-meroonet-macro...  expansion looks good, but bad syntax.
00:06:14 <Riastradh> Well, what is causing the error you are seeing is that rules in SYNTAX-RULES can have only one form for a pattern and one form for a template, i.e. a rule has the form (<pattern> <template>), whereas you have written a rule with two forms, (SET! *LAST-DEFINED-CLASS* #F) and (LET ...), for its template.
00:06:33 <Riastradh> however, I don't think that will do what you want it to do, even once you correct that error.
00:08:00 <ecyrb> ah
00:08:31 <ecyrb> I need some sort of (... ...) literal?
00:08:54 <Riastradh> No.  Your macro expands to something like this:
00:09:49 <Riastradh> (define-syntax define-class (syntax-rules () ((define-class name &c.) (set! &c.) (let &c.))))  This might look like it defines a macro DEFINE-CLASS that expands to two forms -- but macros can't do that; they can only expand to a single form.  A single form might contain multiple forms, such as (BEGIN (SET! &c.) (LET &c.)), though.
00:10:25 <Riastradh> However, it looks like you're trying to translate DEFINE-MACRO into SYNTAX-RULES, which doesn't work.  The real problem is that Meroonet's macros are fundamentally broken and need to be rewritten from scratch, if they're doing what it looks like they're doing.
00:10:45 <Riastradh> (Specifically, it appears that they are mixing phases most atrociously.)
00:10:45 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:11:05 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
00:12:14 <ecyrb> Where would "phases" be explained?
00:12:27 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme
00:12:41 <Riastradh> `Phases' are things such as read-time, macro-expand-time, compile-time, and run-time.
00:12:53 <ecyrb> gotcha
00:13:24 <ecyrb> Okay, I think I'll just rewrite the meroonet macros...  (only 3) as this stuff is getting messy.
00:13:29 <Riastradh> Sometimes in a program code might be run at different phases.  For example, in procedural macros (which SYNTAX-RULES macros are not), macros' transformer procedures are executed at macro-expand-time (which is sometimes identified with compile-time, since the two usually happen together).
00:15:03 <Riastradh> In sensible Scheme systems, each phase has a distinct lexical environment, so that, for example, you don't accidentally refer at compile-time (macro-expand-time) to variables that are only initialized at run-time.  This enables compilation and execution to be cleanly separated -- which it appears not to be in Meroonet, in which both macros and what they expand to refer to the values of common variables.
00:20:35 <ecyrb> Okay.  I think I understood that for the most part.  For such a simple *looking* language it can sure be complicated.
00:22:57 <Riastradh> Well, with SYNTAX-RULES macros, this is not an issue: run-time is the only phase at which code in your program can be evaluated.
00:23:30 <Riastradh> Computation can happen at macro-expand-time, but only in the sense of term rewriting following the syntax rules.
00:25:25 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-225.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme
00:25:49 -!- EleminoP [n=EleminoP@iub-vpn-193-119.noc.indiana.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:31:47 patmaddo_ [n=patmaddo@48.sub-75-208-156.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme
00:35:52 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:40:53 -!- patmaddo_ is now known as patmaddox_
00:42:59 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-92-158.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."]
00:43:28 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme
00:45:54 <arcfide> Riastradh: Is there a Scheme system (by that I mean a standards compliant Scheme) that actually allows you to reference the same variable across phases?
00:46:51 <arcfide> Some Schemes allow you to have different bindings associated with the same name in the different phases, but obivously that's not shared state, and in systems which disallow this, all tha tI am aware of raise an error if you try to reference the variable in the wrong phase.
00:48:07 <arcfide> Of course, there are systems that allow you to share state between run time and compile time, but that's different than referring to identifiers/variables and the like, unless I miss your point.
00:48:35 <Riastradh> Look at the macro that ecyrb was trying to port.
00:49:31 <arcfide> Riastradh: I'm not exactly sure what that macro is trying to accomplish.
00:49:58 <chandler> I thought Chez allowed variable reference across phases.
00:49:58 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:50:14 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
00:50:23 <chandler> Either I'm going mad, or I distinctly recall having a discussion about this with you recently.
00:50:27 <arcfide> chandler: Eh?
00:50:45 <arcfide> chandler: You can share state, you can't have the same variable pointing to the same binding in different phases.
00:51:09 <chandler> I'm not sure I'm understanding the distinction you're drawing.
00:51:36 <chandler> I can refer to the same top-level binding from multiple phases in Chez.
00:52:18 <arcfide> For example (let () (define blah ---) (define-syntax foo (lambda (x) ... blah ...)) (foo)) will raise an error if blah is referenced in the expansion phase when expanding (FOO).
00:53:08 <arcfide> chandler: You can import variables into multiple phases, and if you use parameters, you can share state between the phases, but in general, you'll get an error if you try to do something like the above.
00:53:47 <chandler> Except if you're at the top level and the `define' and `define-syntax' forms are individual top level expressions.
00:54:00 <arcfide> chandler: The exception is the REPL, of course, where defining values makes them visible in all phases.
00:54:16 <arcfide> chandler: That's only true in the REPL top-level. R6RS top level doesn't allow that.
00:54:36 -!- mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-orwdmfjlueqdkxfo] has left #scheme
00:54:59 <chandler> OK. But in the R6RS, I can import the same binding across multiple phases from the same module. I'm not sure how this is different from having "the same variable pointing to the same binding in different phases".
00:55:23 <arcfide> And any sane Chez Scheme program really only uses the REPL top-level as a convenience for developing. When actually distributing the code, the only top-level forms encountered are LET forms, MODULE forms or maybe an EVAL-WHEN.
00:55:48 -!- patmaddox [n=patmaddo@208.110.0.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
00:56:19 meme [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
00:56:27 -!- meme [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #scheme
00:56:44 meme [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
00:57:49 <arcfide> chandler: I believe that importing via libraries is the only exception, and this works at the library level.
00:58:02 <arcfide> chandler: In normal programs, that is.
00:58:09 <arcfide> chandler: Normally, in a block of code you can't do that.
00:58:09 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
00:58:18 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
00:59:38 <arcfide> chandler: Maybe it's better to say that you can't define variables to be referenced in two different phases outside of the top-level. You can import a libraries definitions into any phase you want, but when you define the variables inside the library, you can't specify that, you only can define them for one phase. Does that make sense?
01:00:23 <chandler> In other words, you can refer to the same binding in multiple phases, except when you can't. Makes sense. :-)
01:00:24 <arcfide> Maybe I was missing what Riastradh was saying.
01:00:50 <arcfide> The code there actually mutates bindings that are visible in mutliple phases, if I understand the code correctly.
01:00:59 <meme> Hi new to scheme was wondering is this made sense (+ (if (= (car x) (car (cdr x))) 1 0)
01:01:51 <chandler> You seem to be missing a close paren.
01:02:18 <meme> thanks
01:04:14 <chandler> arcfide: Right. The code in question may not work in Chez, but the general description that Riastradh supplied about separation of phases is certainly not held by Chez in all circumstances. So when you said that no correct Scheme allowed cross-phase references to the same binding, I was a bit surprised. :-)
01:07:57 <ecyrb> Is there a good reference for this stuff?  (phases, etc...)
01:10:48 -!- meme [n=meme@c-76-104-20-221.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #scheme
01:12:00 sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-75-150.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme
01:13:44 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit []
01:13:56 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:13:57 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-225.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit []
01:14:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme
01:14:07 brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme
01:18:51 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:19:24 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
01:22:13 <arcfide> chandler: I wasn't clear, sorry. :-) I was thinking that Riastradh was speaking of the definitions of variables extending to multiple phases, and I am aware of no compliant Schemes that allow this. Most Schemes that I know of allow you to import bindings into multiple phases.
01:22:24 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
01:22:34 ojcitt [n=oscar@76.73.153.18] has joined #scheme
01:23:00 <arcfide> But looking at that macro again, why would anyone do that?
01:23:11 <arcfide> I can see reasons for sharing state among phases, but I don't think that's one of them.
01:23:44 <chandler> Oh, I don't know. I just zoomed in on your statement, and made an issue out of it. I'm feeling nitpicky for some reason.
01:23:52 <chandler> I didn't bother to read the original macro :-)
01:23:59 <arcfide> chandler: Hehe.
01:25:10 sstrickl [n=sstrickl@pool-129-44-182-54.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme
01:25:40 <arcfide> chandler: I'm pretty sure I disagree that all reasonable Schemes disallow shared state among phases.  I do agree though, to a less broad property that would disallow the above macro.
01:26:50 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-73-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out]
01:27:46 *eli* points arcfide to a blood-stained door labeled `eval-when'
01:28:30 -!- ojcitt [n=oscar@76.73.153.18] has left #scheme
01:30:15 <arcfide> eli: Yes, we all love EVAL-WHEN.
01:31:19 <eli> No, not all of us -- but the people behind that door do.
01:31:48 <chandler> Those would be the people whose blood is on the door, I suppose?
01:31:52 <arcfide> eli: Wait, I was being sarcastic, who do you know who loves or even likes EVAL-WHEN?
01:32:23 zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
01:33:38 <arcfide> Anyways, time for me to go.
01:33:42 -!- arcfide [i=1000@140-182-146-137.dhcp-bl.indiana.edu] has left #scheme
01:33:43 <eli> arcfide: "You like shared state among phases" =~= "you like `eval-when'".
01:34:03 <eli> minion: memo for arcfide: "You like shared state among phases" =~= "you like `eval-when'".
01:34:03 <minion> Remembered. I'll tell arcfide when he/she/it next speaks.
01:34:36 <chandler> Heh.
01:37:50 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit []
01:38:25 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme
01:43:06 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme
01:43:06 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
01:43:30 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
01:44:01 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit]
01:48:04 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit []
01:51:54 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme
01:55:06 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit]
01:58:55 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
02:06:05 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@c-98-212-143-245.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
02:06:32 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme
02:07:47 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:08:10 ASau [n=user@85.141.170.43] has joined #scheme
02:18:14 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-93.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme
02:19:41 -!- ada2358_ [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
02:20:09 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
02:21:09 <simon> my DrScheme segfaults. I tried installing it from source, and it does the same. I compiled and installed cgc along with it, same.
02:21:50 <simon> some googling tells me that a few people experience this, but I didn't find any definite reasons as to why it happens.
02:22:56 <jrtayloriv> simon, Try running it in GDB and getting a backtrace
02:23:15 seanstickle [n=seanstic@c-68-33-221-168.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
02:24:00 ada2358 [n=ada2358@login-linux.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme
02:24:42 <Riastradh> simon, you should specify what platform this is on (operating system, architecture, &c.), and consider sending mail to the PLT Scheme mailing list.
02:26:05 <jrtayloriv> (and provide them with a backtrace of some sort, if you do email them)
02:26:25 *jrtayloriv* shouldn't assume people are on *nix
02:27:09 <Daemmerung> "segfault" makes that a safe guess, jrtayloriv
02:28:14 <jrtayloriv> Does it? Does Windows call it something different? (Probably something useless like "Error" or "Problem")
02:28:24 <simon> thanks. /me tinkers with it a little more
02:28:58 <simon> jrtayloriv, yup. I don't think Windows users ever see the text "Segfault" unless they run software in a command-line compiled for cygwin. :-)
02:29:44 <Riastradh> Usually one doesn't see `segfault' on Unix, either; one sees `SIGSEGV', or `segmentation violation'.
02:29:52 <Daemmerung> "Sorry, a system error occurred," with a reassuring little bomb icon, fuse sparking merrily
02:31:04 <simon> I think the problem relates to the 'drscheme' shellscript not guessing mred arguments properly.
02:31:04 -!- ASau [n=user@85.141.170.43] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:31:20 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
02:37:11 <simon> Linux tuxray-1 2.6.30-DIKU-r5 x86_64 Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU. Gentoo.
02:38:31 <simon> bin/drscheme generates the following command: /tmp/drscheme/bin/mred -N bin/drscheme -l- drscheme/drscheme.ss # after running this, it shows a pop-up window with small icons loading, and once done with that, it crashes.
02:40:12 *simon* tries gdb'ing that.
02:47:47 underspecified [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme
02:47:51 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme
02:51:10 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
02:51:27 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
02:52:38 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176199030.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme
03:00:27 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:00:33 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
03:09:09 -!- timj [n=timj@e176195106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:10:06 dmoerner [n=dmr@89-65.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme
03:16:52 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:17:25 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme
03:19:44 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase
03:20:17 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:21:19 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme
03:22:39 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
03:29:05 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
03:29:22 -!- seanstickle [n=seanstic@c-68-33-221-168.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit []
03:33:26 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme
03:33:26 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
03:33:49 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
03:36:08 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme
03:36:50 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
03:39:17 -!- mjonsson [n=mjonsson@cpe-74-68-112-229.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
03:45:59 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit ["Goin' away"]
03:46:02 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has quit ["Smoove out."]
03:48:35 -!- patmaddox_ [n=patmaddo@48.sub-75-208-156.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:50:48 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:53:53 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme
03:59:58 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:00:31 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"]
04:02:24 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
04:02:33 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
04:03:13 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit []
04:04:55 -!- sepult` [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-75-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit]
04:08:49 sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-75-150.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme
04:17:29 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:17:59 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
04:21:21 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:21:39 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
04:26:31 <foof> seems r6rs-discuss has died down
04:33:02 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme
04:39:11 <leppie|work> yay!
04:45:23 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme
04:45:28 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
04:45:38 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme
04:45:42 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
04:45:59 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit]
04:49:14 <zbigniew> i tried installing drscheme and got the sad mac icon, does it not work on a quadra?
04:54:35 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit []
04:54:39 <foof> http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/354408/4b4c2fce98e785ad/
04:59:17 <Makoryu> zbigniew: EXPERT MAC USER
04:59:49 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
05:00:22 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-rcahngooclqsyush] has quit ["Page closed"]
05:02:05 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:02:18 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
05:03:06 -!- Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit []
05:03:58 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:05:32 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:05:55 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
05:17:09 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-vifvpvjoybdxatou] has joined #scheme
05:23:33 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"]
05:26:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:27:00 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
05:30:58 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
05:31:06 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
05:32:35 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-106.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
05:39:59 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
05:45:54 -!- jrtayloriv [n=jrt4@cpe-69-205-162-163.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
05:46:39 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-170-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"]
05:58:01 patmaddox [n=patmaddo@0.sub-75-209-251.myvzw.com] has joined #scheme
06:01:21 -!- optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"]
06:01:32 optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme
06:01:54 -!- patmaddox [n=patmaddo@0.sub-75-209-251.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit]
06:04:24 -!- underspecified [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit []
06:05:09 -!- optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Client Quit]
06:05:22 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-202.naist.jp] has joined #scheme
06:08:12 optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme
06:10:10 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme
06:15:16 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
06:21:38 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme
06:22:27 jrtayloriv [n=jrt4@cpe-69-205-162-163.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
06:27:12 xwl [n=user@tu130022.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #scheme
06:31:19 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme
06:33:48 thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@114.73.185.69] has joined #scheme
06:49:55 ASau [n=user@host121-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme
06:52:02 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
06:53:00 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."]
06:53:01 ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #scheme
06:53:06 <optimizer> Riastradh: did you write the disxsector egg for chicken?
06:53:48 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme
06:58:48 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-202.naist.jp] has quit []
07:09:29 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
07:10:03 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-202.naist.jp] has joined #scheme
07:19:34 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054D7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme
07:19:49 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054D7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit]
07:26:16 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
07:26:38 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-95-84.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:29:46 -!- weinholt [i=weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
07:33:30 weinholt [i=weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme
07:45:42 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-202.naist.jp] has quit []
07:48:27 -!- TR2N [i=email@89-180-199-247.net.novis.pt] has left #scheme
07:51:04 shiva8 [n=Administ@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
07:51:17 <shiva8> hey i am trying to install the MIT scheme onto my linux
07:51:25 <shiva8> thou when i am done with extraction and do the command scheme
07:51:37 <shiva8> it gives me a seg fault..then i tried using there windows isntaller for scheme
07:52:04 <shiva8> which just completes saying..its unpaking but dosnt bring up the installation Wizard
07:57:17 -!- zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []
08:09:46 zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
08:10:30 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
08:10:50 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme
08:13:43 -!- StucKman [n=mdione@138.96.210.30] has quit ["leaving"]
08:13:56 SuckXman [n=mdione@yami.inria.fr] has joined #scheme
08:20:58 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@89-65.res.pomona.edu] has quit ["Leaving"]
08:22:26 ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.73.187] has joined #scheme
08:24:20 -!- zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []
08:35:07 zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
08:45:25 underspecified [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has joined #scheme
08:50:01 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-120-165.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme
08:55:17 -!- zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []
09:00:14 tmitt [n=seg@adsl-150-224-7.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme
09:04:18 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
09:26:55 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_
09:32:59 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2C7EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme
09:33:09 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C92A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
09:33:12 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei
09:44:51 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme
10:07:40 masm [n=masm@bl7-195-53.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme
10:11:19 Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
10:21:02 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-93.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme
10:26:01 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme
10:31:39 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-120-165.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
10:36:58 rstandy [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has joined #scheme
10:45:10 rdd` [n=rdd@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme
10:46:07 -!- cornbread [n=max@mendotasoft.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
10:46:07 -!- docgnome [n=docgnome@65.101.144.42] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
10:46:07 -!- ski [n=slj@c-c110e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
10:46:07 -!- hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
10:46:07 -!- Chani [n=chani@twinsen.warpedgames.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
10:46:07 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
10:46:07 -!- Adrinael [i=adrinael@rib4.kyla.fi] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
10:46:30 docgnome [n=docgnome@65.101.144.42] has joined #scheme
10:46:30 cornbread [n=max@mendotasoft.com] has joined #scheme
10:46:30 ski [n=slj@c-c110e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme
10:46:30 Chani [n=chani@twinsen.warpedgames.com] has joined #scheme
10:46:30 hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
10:46:30 rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme
10:46:30 Adrinael [i=adrinael@rib4.kyla.fi] has joined #scheme
10:50:46 rstandy` [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has joined #scheme
10:55:46 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme
11:02:14 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-145-223.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Success]
11:04:44 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:19:45 -!- underspecified [n=eric@walnut.naist.jp] has quit []
11:29:40 ebzzry_ [n=ebzzry@115.147.106.228] has joined #scheme
11:34:45 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
11:35:11 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme
11:39:41 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
11:45:41 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme
11:46:08 -!- ebzzry [n=ebzzry@124.217.73.187] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
11:54:26 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
11:54:50 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme
11:58:24 -!- emmy [n=em@cpe-98-14-154-71.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:07:02 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:16:35 -!- xwl [n=user@tu130022.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:16:51 underspecified [n=eric@220.43.52.7] has joined #scheme
12:17:28 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-195-53.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."]
12:24:23 -!- foof [n=user@FLH1Ahf049.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:24:29 foof [n=user@FLH1Ahf049.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme
12:36:09 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
12:45:09 mario-goulart [n=user@67.205.85.241] has joined #scheme
12:48:26 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit []
12:56:55 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme
13:03:57 stepnem [n=stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #scheme
13:04:49 -!- schemer999 [n=tmilford@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has quit []
13:12:50 danlei` [n=user@pD9E2C7EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme
13:12:58 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C7EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
13:13:01 -!- danlei` is now known as danlei
13:13:21 thesnowdog_ [i=thesnowd@122.110.55.35] has joined #scheme
13:14:30 ASau` [n=user@host121-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme
13:15:19 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-34-67-216.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
13:15:19 -!- ASau [n=user@host121-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
13:15:19 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
13:18:24 Summermute [n=scott@68.34.67.216] has joined #scheme
13:18:43 -!- thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@114.73.185.69] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:25:23 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit []
13:29:37 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit []
13:34:58 -!- sepult [n=levgue@xdsl-87-78-75-150.netcologne.de] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"]
13:35:06 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:40:21 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme
13:41:09 seanstickle [n=seanstic@c-68-33-221-168.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
13:41:38 masm [n=masm@bl9-114-83.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #scheme
13:53:28 -!- ponzao__ [n=vesam@xdsl-83-150-86-25.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
13:58:01 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:04:09 -!- thesnowdog_ is now known as thesnowdog
14:08:05 -!- Foofie is now known as Fufie
14:18:01 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #scheme
14:19:15 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [Client Quit]
14:20:49 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C7EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:31:19 Axioplas1_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #scheme
14:33:02 zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
14:36:10 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:38:11 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme
14:39:08 samth [n=samth@129.10.110.45] has joined #scheme
14:44:33 -!- Axioplase_ [n=Axioplas@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:46:45 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
14:48:02 -!- Pepe__ is now known as Pepe_
14:53:37 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:53:52 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-43.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme
14:54:11 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme
14:58:53 r0bby_ [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme
15:00:01 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
15:05:21 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
15:07:07 -!- rstandy` [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
15:07:56 rstandy` [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has joined #scheme
15:08:10 -!- zanes [n=zane@c-76-24-24-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit []
15:12:13 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme
15:12:48 -!- seanstickle [n=seanstic@c-68-33-221-168.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit []
15:14:37 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
15:14:57 -!- ASau` [n=user@host121-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"]
15:16:24 -!- SuckXman is now known as StucKman
15:21:37 -!- roderic [n=user@bubbles.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:21:51 roderic` [n=user@bubbles.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme
15:32:52 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme
15:36:38 ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has joined #scheme
15:43:22 Makoryu [n=vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme
15:48:33 -!- foof [n=user@FLH1Ahf049.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
15:49:03 foof [n=user@FLH1Ahf049.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme
15:49:47 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-udgsiwgnmlzhmsmc] has joined #scheme
16:01:00 -!- _Jordan_ [n=jcooper@173-45-228-22.slicehost.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
16:01:23 danlei [n=user@pD9E2C7EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme
16:02:14 <Summermute> super quiet today
16:02:25 neilmock [n=neilmock@71.4.241.34.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #scheme
16:02:37 *Riastradh* drops a pin.
16:02:46 <lisppaste> jrtayloriv pasted "Not for long it's not" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88341
16:02:56 <jrtayloriv> Why doesn't that work in PLT scheme
16:03:16 <jrtayloriv> "The Scheme Programming Language" says it should. There are numerous other examples that also don't work.
16:03:51 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
16:03:51 Hydr4 [n=Lernaean@24-107-60-232.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme
16:04:02 <Riastradh> Works for me in my expander.  But internal syntax definitions are not condoned by any standard.
16:04:18 <Riastradh> So perhaps PLT Scheme doesn't support them.  What happens when you try it?
16:04:27 Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #scheme
16:04:54 <jrtayloriv> I've got PLT in R5RS mode, and it doesn't seem to like it. When TSPL says "This is valid" -- by what criteria are they judging "validity" if not a standard?
16:05:14 <Riastradh> Whatever TSPL says about macros is probably peculiar to Chez Scheme.
16:05:40 mrsolo_ [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-wgfbhnwuycmnpeyl] has joined #scheme
16:05:45 <Summermute> I just pasted it in Emacs in an PLT mzscheme buffer and it returned #t
16:06:13 <Riastradh> Certainly the R5RS does not specify internal syntax definitions.
16:06:26 <Summermute> That must be it
16:06:34 <jrtayloriv> Summermute, Yes -- it returns #t for me in mzscheme as well.
16:07:32 <Riastradh> So if you put PLT Scheme into its R5RS mode, it probably tries to adhere fairly strictly to what the R5RS specifies.
16:08:12 <Summermute> I'm in stupid mode, but why is odd? in scope in the definition of even?  ?
16:09:00 <Riastradh> The definitions occur in the same scope, just like any internal definitions.
16:09:23 <Summermute> Oh, I never use define except at the top level - got it
16:11:07 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:11:19 -!- foof [n=user@FLH1Ahf049.osk.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:12:26 SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has joined #scheme
16:13:08 <Summermute> Anyone using typed scheme dialect?
16:14:02 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-udgsiwgnmlzhmsmc] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:14:24 -!- schmir [n=schmir@mail.brainbot.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:16:26 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
16:20:14 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit ["leaving"]
16:23:05 <lisppaste> jrtayloriv pasted "another one" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88342
16:23:42 <Riastradh> You're missing an OR (or whatever name you want) at the beginning of each pattern there.
16:24:49 <jrtayloriv> I just copy/pasted it verbatim. One moment.
16:26:11 <lisppaste> jrtayloriv annotated #88342 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/88342#1
16:26:15 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme
16:26:34 <jrtayloriv> Both of those gave the same error ...
16:26:55 <Riastradh> Are you using the R5RS language?
16:26:57 *jrtayloriv* needs to find another book that doesn't have half of the examples broken
16:27:03 <jrtayloriv> Riastradh, Yes
16:27:11 <Riastradh> That's why: SYNTAX-CASE is not in the R5RS.
16:28:36 <jrtayloriv> I see. Wish they had mentioned that explicitly. I'm noticing a comment that says that syntax-case is a "de facto standard" now in the chapter intro.
16:29:07 <gnomon> That's the problem with de facto standards.
16:29:54 <Riastradh> At the time it was written it was hardly even a de facto standard.  There were at least two or three different incompatible variants of it, and only small number of Scheme systems supported it (Chez Scheme and PLT Scheme being the two main ones).
16:30:00 <Summermute> Works like a charm here - again mzscheme
16:30:06 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme
16:30:29 <Riastradh> Now it is in the R6RS, but while one could call that a `standard', it is still hardly widely supported.
16:31:12 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:31:47 <Summermute> The Scheme language definition modulo implementations is in sort of a weird state right now
16:38:20 <samth> Summermute: that's not a new state
16:38:30 <samth> Summermute: what questions do you have about Typed Scheme?
16:39:03 <samth> jrtayloriv: if you want to use syntax-case, you should just use the Module language in PLT Scheme
16:39:06 <Summermute> samth: true enough and no, I don't have any q's right now. Just polling
16:39:17 <samth> almost all the examples in TSPL should work there
16:39:48 <jrtayloriv> samth, Thanks
16:42:07 -!- ski_ [n=md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
16:44:48 <optimizer> Riastradh: tell mea bout dissector
16:52:10 -!- rstandy` [n=rastandy@pc212-189-140-32.unile.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:57:05 -!- SvekloB [n=sveklo@unaffiliated/sveklo] has quit ["Leaving..."]
16:59:00 <Riastradh> optimizer, it is an interactive object inspector (or, specifically, an interactive Chicken inspector, i.e. a dissector).  What do you want to know about it?
17:04:57 -!- simon [n=simon@195.249.184.134] has left #scheme
17:06:21 <Riastradh> It became much less useful when Felix took out introspective information about records in Chicken.
17:12:35 TR2N [i=email@89-180-202-103.net.novis.pt] has joined #scheme
17:20:32 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme
17:25:39 albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #scheme
17:26:04 -!- optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:27:48 -!- StucKman [n=mdione@yami.inria.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:33:42 charleyb [n=charleyb@c-67-162-157-218.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
17:35:11 <ecyrb> Is it possible to re-import a library (e.g. in a repl)?
17:35:22 <Riastradh> That depends on the REPL you're using, ecyrb.
17:35:58 <ecyrb> No r6rs standardized way?
17:36:06 <leppie> if you are using IronScheme, yes, if you use Ikarus, no
17:36:31 <Riastradh> The R6RS does not standardize user interfaces, ecyrb.
17:37:28 <leppie> ecyrb: what do mean by re-import? like recompile, and rebind? or just reload, and bind from there?
17:37:44 <ecyrb> reload.
17:38:30 <ecyrb> basically, I've imported a library I'm working on, made changes, and want to reload.
17:38:45 <leppie> yes, I do allow that in IronScheme, but for some reason Aziz does not like it for ikarus
17:39:26 <leppie> so what scheme are you using ecyrb?
17:39:35 <ecyrb> chez
17:39:42 <ecyrb> er, petite chez
17:39:47 <leppie> i would expect it to do so
17:39:59 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-196.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme
17:39:59 <ecyrb> only because it was easy to get a pure r6rs repl working quickly.
17:40:02 <leppie> are you prefixing your files with #!r6rs ?
17:40:22 <ecyrb> I guess if I did that, I could probably just LOAD them, right?
17:40:33 <leppie> no, im not sure
17:40:53 <ecyrb> yes, I am doing that though
17:41:23 <leppie> load would just execute it in the REPL but I am not sure if allows redefinition
17:41:27 <leppie> does it?
17:41:42 <Riastradh> A REPL without redefinition is pretty silly...
17:45:05 <ecyrb> So if you're using a pure R6RS scheme REPL (so IMPORT support) there's no way to re-import?  So the standard doesn't allow any sort of multiple import?
17:45:26 -!- ejs [n=eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:45:27 <leppie> no
17:45:28 <Riastradh> It doesn't say anything about your user interface.
17:45:46 <Riastradh> It also doesn't say how to invoke a debugger or an object inspector or a source code editor or anything like that.
17:45:51 <leppie> it does allow or disallow anything with that regard
17:46:08 <Riastradh> (`doesn't', leppie?)
17:46:27 <leppie> yes :) oops
17:47:22 <Riastradh> Nor, for that matter, does the R6RS say anything about the semantics of forms entered at a REPL.  It is silent on the subject of user interfaces (as it should be).
17:48:32 <leppie> imagine we had to agree on that!
17:49:24 <Riastradh> (Earlier reports mistakenly included a couple of procedures that were part of the user interface: LOAD, TRANSCRIPT-ON, and TRANSCRIPT-OFF.)
17:49:57 <leppie> and INTERACTION-ENVIRONMENT ?
17:50:03 <Riastradh> That too.
17:50:20 <leppie> thats the core of my REPL  :)
17:54:05 <ecyrb> Thanks guys.  Good to know.
17:54:17 <ecyrb> And a LOAD followed by an IMPORT seems to work
17:54:33 <Riastradh> s/a couple of/several/1
18:14:26 cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has joined #scheme
18:18:15 mflatt_ [n=mflatt@wireless83.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme
18:18:25 -!- mflatt_ [n=mflatt@wireless83.wireless.utah.edu] has left #scheme
18:23:03 -!- ecyrb [i=bamoore@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG] has quit ["Eject! Eject! Eject!"]
18:24:48 r00t_ [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has joined #scheme
18:25:40 -!- cornucopic [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
18:26:28 -!- r00t_ [n=r00t@202.3.77.173] has quit [Client Quit]
18:28:08 zanes [n=zane@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme
18:29:48 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
18:39:15 HG` [n=HG@xdslgy078.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme
18:40:21 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme
18:40:53 Modius [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #scheme
18:47:01 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslgy078.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
19:02:31 NNshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-139.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme
19:04:12 pumpkin_ [n=pumpkin@pumpkinpro.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme
19:05:33 -!- pumpkin_ is now known as copumpkin
19:05:33 <albacker> can i iterate through strings in scheme?
19:05:42 <albacker> like cdr and car are there any functions for strings?
19:05:51 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme
19:06:08 <sjamaan> albacker: You could do that, by using string->list
19:07:18 schmir [n=schmir@p54A90CD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme
19:07:48 <albacker> why does it put a backslash before the entry?
19:08:06 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme
19:08:15 <sjamaan> #\x is Scheme's way of describing "a character 'x'"
19:10:29 <Riastradh> albacker, one generally iterates through strings using indices and STRING-REF.
19:10:56 <albacker> i've totally forgot scheme it's been more then a year not using it :'(
19:11:03 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme
19:11:10 <albacker> i'll have to read again
19:14:29 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
19:16:27 mikko_ [n=mikko@a88-115-222-238.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #scheme
19:20:51 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-43.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:22:06 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:22:27 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
19:23:17 infrared` [n=infrared@94.78.187.226] has joined #scheme
19:23:59 -!- infrared` [n=infrared@94.78.187.226] has left #scheme
19:30:07 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:30:30 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
19:32:34 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:33:10 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
19:37:05 Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #scheme
19:44:21 schemer999 [n=tmilford@cpe-76-90-137-46.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
19:44:21 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:44:56 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
19:48:06 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE487.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme
19:50:43 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
19:52:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:53:22 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
19:54:34 -!- neilmock [n=neilmock@71.4.241.34.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit []
19:56:38 cthibaud [n=cthibaud@chn44-1-88-179-93-48.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme
19:56:46 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054D7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme
19:59:55 -!- schmir [n=schmir@p54A90CD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
20:03:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:03:58 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
20:06:31 -!- albacker [n=eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:08:00 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:09:04 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme
20:11:06 bunz [n=bunz@unaffiliated/bunz] has joined #scheme
20:14:18 <Arelius> I Give up!
20:14:20 <Arelius> (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) ;; The Death of a Legend!
20:16:01 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:16:31 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
20:17:40 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme
20:19:01 neilmock [n=neilmock@99-11-93-68.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme
20:21:36 <eli> Arelius: How long did you use Emacs?
20:21:36 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:22:07 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
20:22:46 <Arelius> eli: About a year now
20:23:02 ecyrb [i=bamoore@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG] has joined #scheme
20:24:03 <eli> Arelius: In that case, it makes sense to discover it now...
20:24:14 <eli> Tabs are evil.
20:24:42 *sjamaan* grabs some popcorn
20:25:07 *eli* quickly drops a tab in sjamaan's popcorn
20:25:18 <sjamaan> eww
20:25:42 <sjamaan> I guess there are no takers for this particular flamewar
20:25:48 <chandler> I'm not hearing any disagreement.
20:25:58 <sjamaan> indeed
20:26:04 <Arelius> My point is I was always a tabs holdout
20:26:07 <Arelius> but you guys win!
20:26:51 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit []
20:27:18 -!- mikko_ [n=mikko@a88-115-222-238.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
20:27:37 <eli> Arelius: IME, it takes up to three times where you see stupid conflicts, or weird stuff like "reverse indentation", and then you start actively looking for how to disable the stupid thing.
20:27:54 <eli> Of course, these days you can probably add "Python bugs" to the list.
20:28:33 <sjamaan> eli: That doesn't really help unless your peers also disable tabs
20:28:33 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:28:39 <gnomon> I like hard tabs in my text files, thank you very much.  Not so much in my program code.
20:28:44 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
20:29:02 <Arelius> eli: I've always known how to disable, I enabled it for godsakes.
20:29:16 <Arelius> I've never seen reverse indentation
20:29:19 <gnomon> Why did you give up, Arelius?
20:29:38 <chandler> I don't mind hard tabs in C. Lisp / Scheme should always be done with spaces, since things need to line up neatly vertically.
20:29:42 <sjamaan> Arelius: That happens when your tab width is wider than your colleague's, and he's using spaces to indent parts of the line
20:30:20 <Arelius> gnomon: I'm just tired of fighting. Fighting the codebases, fighting emacs
20:30:24 <Arelius> Bleh
20:30:25 Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
20:30:50 <Arelius> sjamaan: Ahh
20:30:54 <sjamaan> gnomon: +1 on the tabs in C
20:31:04 <Arelius> sjamaan: That sounds like it's also part spaces fault.
20:31:09 <eli> Arelius: "reverse indentation" happens when you look at some file that used a larger tab width than what you see, which can make indented blocks appear outdented.
20:31:47 <eli> Arelius: And re fighting with Emacs -- that's strange, because having tabs on in Emacs was the default for years.
20:32:00 <Arelius> Hrm
20:32:17 <Arelius> well modern emacs seems to always randomlly convert my tabs to spaces
20:32:20 <Arelius> esp when I hit delete
20:32:28 <eli> (Which is why I assumed you didn't turn them on.)
20:32:28 -!- r0bby_ [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out]
20:32:42 <eli> That's a feature which is probably easy to disable.
20:33:07 <Arelius> Yeah, but half the modes I use turn it back on.
20:33:13 <sjamaan> heh
20:33:18 <sjamaan> I hear that
20:33:29 <sjamaan> Some modes are actively working against you :)
20:33:39 <eli> Arelius: If an Emacs mode is touching your backspace, then that's definitely a bug.
20:34:03 <eli> I have my own function bound to backspace, and I didn't ever see a mode that touched it.
20:34:17 <Arelius> scheme mode for instance, turns tabs off and when I get it back on it unfixes my tab-backspace
20:34:19 <sjamaan> eli: It also happens when a mode auto-tabifies
20:34:28 <Arelius> eli: paredit also touches backspace
20:34:40 <sjamaan> If you indent with, say, 4 spaces and the tab width is 8, it will convert some bits to tabs, but others stay spaces
20:34:53 <Arelius> sjamaan: YES!
20:35:07 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out]
20:35:20 -!- cthibaud [n=cthibaud@chn44-1-88-179-93-48.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["MegaIRC v4.05 http://ironfist.at.tut.by"]
20:35:29 <sjamaan> Arelius: If a mode does that, either disable tabs or change the tab width
20:35:41 <sjamaan> (or disable auto tabification)
20:35:56 <Arelius> I give up, I don't want to fight with it anymore
20:35:59 <ecyrb> Sorry to interrupt, but there's no such thing as a default argument in R6RS is there?
20:36:00 <sjamaan> :)
20:36:01 <Arelius> and with everyone I work with
20:36:04 <eli> Arelius, sjamaan: if by "it" you mean "paredit", then you should complain to the guy who wrote it, which should be easy if you're here.
20:36:07 <Arelius> and all the projects I contribute too
20:36:25 <Arelius> by *it* I mean tabs
20:36:33 <sjamaan> eli: I am not talking about paredit, but just in general. My emacs is configured to disable tabs in all lisp modes
20:36:48 <eli> Arelius: I meant the "it" in "it will convert some bits to tabs, but others stay spaces"
20:37:06 <chandler> ecyrb: No; you could use something like `case-lambda' to introduce it yourself.
20:37:17 <Arelius> eli: No, that's some core emacs functionality that keeps getting enabled
20:37:17 <sjamaan> That "it" = the mode that has auto-tabification enabled
20:37:35 <eli> Having modes that untabify text is most certainly a tab, and a rude thing to do too.
20:37:50 <eli> And scheme mode is most certainly not doing that.
20:37:59 <eli> (And I'd be very surprised if paredit does.)
20:38:01 <sjamaan> I don't think we're discussing scheme mode here
20:38:04 <sjamaan> Nor paredit
20:38:17 <eli> Those are the two that were mentioned.
20:38:45 <ecyrb> chandler: Thanks.  I've recently switched from an implementation that had them
20:39:09 <eli> The only mode that I remember doing anything special with tabs was makefile-mode -- and that's for very different and obvious reasons.
20:39:40 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:39:54 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
20:40:02 <sjamaan> eli: If you have tabs enabled but are editing a file that's indented with spaces (at half tabstops), and you have auto-indenting enabled, pressing enter to insert a new line will insert tabs followed by spaces
20:40:10 <sjamaan> Almost all modes do that
20:41:17 <sjamaan>         for (i = 0; i < 10; ++i) {
20:41:17 <sjamaan> ^I    blablah;
20:41:19 <sjamaan> }
20:41:23 <sjamaan> Like that
20:41:27 <sjamaan> (with the } indented properly)
20:41:35 <eli> So?  I thought that the issue was tabs being disabled behind Arelius's back.
20:41:55 <sjamaan> It's not so much that tabs are disabled, but that the extra spaces are inserted which is counter-intuitive
20:42:15 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:42:30 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
20:42:35 <sjamaan> The problem is the original file doesn't contain tab indentation, while your config has tab indentation
20:43:36 <Arelius> Additionally, something in scheme code disables my tabs
20:43:42 <Arelius> Maybee it's Quack
20:43:56 <sjamaan> Be grateful :)
20:44:08 <sjamaan> scheme code with tabs makes no sense
20:44:17 <Arelius> Ragardless, I've given up, spaces win
20:46:44 <zbigniew> that was fun, let's do emacs vs vi now
20:47:00 <sjamaan> Or git vs svn
20:47:09 <sjamaan> emacs vs vi is yesterday's flamewar
20:47:17 <Arelius> Reds vs Whites
20:47:18 <Arelius> ?
20:47:37 <jao> lisp-1 vs lisp-2
20:47:41 DerGuteMoritz [n=syn@85.88.17.198] has joined #scheme
20:47:41 <zbigniew> sjamaan: nary a day goes by without a git flamefest in here
20:47:46 <sjamaan> ooh, good one jao
20:47:53 <sjamaan> Especially in #scheme :P
20:47:55 <zbigniew> define-macro vs define-syntax
20:47:57 <mbishop> lisp-3
20:48:15 <jonrafkind> cobol vs uzbekistan
20:48:23 <Arelius> Anyways, I didn't mean to spark an argument, was just ment to inform the majority that the've won a minor victory.
20:50:08 <Makoryu> mbishop: Heh, what would *that* be like?
20:51:04 <zbigniew> perl is a lisp-7
20:51:20 <zbigniew> or so.
20:51:42 <mario-goulart> :-)
20:51:59 <eli> 3lisp vs 2-lisp
20:52:20 <zbigniew> <3 lisp
20:52:28 <eli> (That was probably too subtle.)
20:52:54 <mario-goulart> Perl is a LiNP (LIne Noise Processor)
20:53:51 <Makoryu> Hah
20:54:07 <Arelius> mario-goulart: Sure it's not just Line Noise?
20:54:11 <Riastradh> I don't think there are many Git flamefests here, zbigniew.  Mostly it's just me, wondering what bizarre incantations are necessary to make Git perform simple, straightforward operations.
20:54:21 <Arelius> or are you referring to the interpreter specifically
20:54:40 <mario-goulart> Arelius: the interpreter. :-)
20:54:48 <Arelius> Riastradh: Watch out, you trying to start a flamefest now?
20:54:51 <Arelius> mario-goulart: Ahh yes
21:00:08 -!- Phaze [n=PhazeDK@0x5da32b16.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1104.soebnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:00:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:00:39 Administrator_ [n=Administ@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
21:00:45 -!- shiva8 [n=Administ@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:03:01 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
21:03:41 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE487.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit]
21:03:52 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd
21:08:03 -!- ecyrb [i=bamoore@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG] has quit ["Eject! Eject! Eject!"]
21:08:29 <alaricsp> I quite like Git, but that's because I can overlook the UI issues and admire the elegance of content-addressible storage at work
21:08:54 <alaricsp> I use very few of git's features, mind, in order to minimise my exposure to the interface ;-)
21:09:07 <alaricsp> git gui and gitk are nice, but the command line isn't so nice.
21:09:21 <sjamaan> gitk is *nice*?
21:09:26 <alaricsp> Doing complex stuff requires a great deal of manpage and sample poring-over first
21:09:45 <alaricsp> Yeah! I can look at the pretty diagram and click on commits and look at them, so I'm happy.
21:11:15 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:11:37 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
21:11:50 <Riastradh> I can admire the elegance of content-addressible storage in Darcs, too, but that doesn't interfere with my using it to do simple operations.
21:12:04 <alaricsp> Indeed
21:12:18 <Elly> woohoo, I wrote a unary recursion combinator
21:13:33 <Riastradh> And Darcs even changed from not doing content-addressible storage to doing content-addressible storage (or perhaps is in the middle of the transition), and both before and after it was perfectly capable of presenting a thoroughly usable interface.  Git has no excuse whatsoever for how hard it is to use to do basic things.
21:13:59 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme
21:14:14 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
21:14:30 <alaricsp> It's the product of evolution, rather than design
21:14:45 <alaricsp> It always amuses me when religious types say "How can the wonders of the human body have EVOLVED?"
21:14:56 <alaricsp> Implying that mere evolution could not create something so perfect
21:15:11 <chandler> Does Darcs work on Hugs these days?
21:15:20 <Riastradh> I don't know, chandler.
21:15:41 <alaricsp> Whereas I look at how rubbish the human body is, and am amazed people think that this was the best a supposedly omnipotent deity could produce
21:16:23 <alaricsp> Wherever I look, the products of evolution are never as good as the products of design, and the software industry particularly magnifies this.
21:17:18 <Riastradh> Darcs has evolved just as much as Git has.  I think this is merely a reflection that the developers of Git don't care, or perhaps even want to raise barriers to entry.
21:17:20 <alaricsp> Evolution has one edge: things that have evolved, having had to survive in various different environments on the way up, tend to have a better chance at withstanding being thrown into different environments all of a sudden... which is why Perl somehow manages to cling onto odd niches, like bioninformatics.
21:17:32 <chandler> If the documentation is to be believed, Darcs requires GHC.
21:18:02 <chandler> (Still.)
21:18:08 <alaricsp> Quite possibly, yes
21:19:33 <samth> i think very little works on hugs these days
21:20:15 <Fare> what's wrong with git?
21:20:31 mmc [n=mima@cs27122078.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme
21:21:11 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:21:18 <Fare> Yeah, I tried to pay the cab driver with hugs, he declined the offer.
21:21:34 <sjamaan> What a git!
21:21:46 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
21:24:38 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:24:54 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
21:25:41 -!- Alice_I_W [i=stepnem@server1.bshellz.net] has quit ["leaving"]
21:25:53 Alice_I_W [i=stepnem@server1.bshellz.net] has joined #scheme
21:26:55 -!- samth [n=samth@129.10.110.45] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
21:27:28 samth_ [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme
21:27:38 -!- samth_ is now known as samth
21:28:29 -!- samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
21:28:38 samth [n=samth@punge.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme
21:30:16 schmir [n=schmir@p54A907D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme
21:32:34 -!- Administrator_ [n=Administ@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:32:35 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:33:00 shiva8 [n=Administ@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
21:35:01 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
21:37:29 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"]
21:40:00 -!- danlei [n=user@pD9E2C7EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:44:19 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:44:19 danlei [n=user@pD9E2C7EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme
21:44:38 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:46:38 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
21:48:47 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
21:52:42 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:55:15 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
21:56:37 rouslan [n=admin@pool-70-109-151-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme
22:01:58 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:02:25 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
22:04:46 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:05:03 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
22:07:14 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme
22:07:15 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:07:38 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
22:08:17 mflatt_ [n=mflatt@wireless83.wireless.utah.edu] has joined #scheme
22:09:18 -!- mflatt_ [n=mflatt@wireless83.wireless.utah.edu] has quit [Client Quit]
22:12:54 -!- Dawgmatix [n=user@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:13:00 thesnowdog_ [i=thesnowd@122.110.55.35] has joined #scheme
22:14:56 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:16:24 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme
22:18:01 -!- shiva8 [n=Administ@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
22:18:20 shiva8 [n=Administ@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme
22:18:47 -!- rouslan [n=admin@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:20:54 -!- thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@122.110.55.35] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
22:22:36 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:22:43 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
22:26:50 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:29:22 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
22:32:27 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:32:58 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
22:33:04 -!- samth is now known as samth_away
22:38:13 optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme
22:41:21 dmoerner [n=dmr@89-65.res.pomona.edu] has joined #scheme
22:42:17 mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has joined #scheme
22:42:33 -!- optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Client Quit]
22:44:38 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [No route to host]
22:48:47 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme
22:50:33 -!- roderic` is now known as roderic
22:50:56 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:51:11 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
22:53:53 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:54:20 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
22:56:55 dysinger [n=dysinger@cpe-75-85-135-191.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme
22:56:56 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"]
22:58:05 MononcQc [n=mononcqc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme
22:58:40 -!- mabes [n=mabes@66.236.74.194] has quit ["Leaving..."]
23:00:27 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme
23:00:41 <jrtayloriv> I'm trying to understand when and how exactly macro expansion occurs. I originally thought that of it simply as (1) take source text and expand macros, (2) parse expanded text into s-expressions, (3) evaluate s-expressions... but I see that this can't be correct, since I can (define-syntax foo ...) and then later do (let ((foo 5)) ...) and shadow the macro definition with the new local variable.
23:01:17 <jrtayloriv> So if everything was getting expanded first, then foo would get expanded in the LET expression ...
23:01:57 <Fare> during expansion you have to know about let
23:02:05 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054D7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
23:02:12 <Fare> i.e. the expander knows about the base language and its binding constructs.
23:03:05 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:08:14 <jrtayloriv> I guess what I'm confused about is that I keep reading that macro expansion happens *before* runtime, but it seems to have access to the variable bindings that are created while the program is running (so that it knows whether something is a macro to be expanded, or a local variable)
23:10:15 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"]
23:10:26 *jrtayloriv* seems to be fuzzy on exactly what is considered "runtime" vs. "compile time" vs. "macro expansion time" in Scheme ... and thus heads to the Google machine
23:13:01 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:13:26 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
23:14:28 -!- neilmock [n=neilmock@99-11-93-68.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit []
23:17:23 -!- zanes [n=zane@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit []
23:19:47 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit []
23:26:22 <chandler> jrtayloriv: Variable bindings are not created by running a program. They are a lexical property of the program.
23:26:53 <chandler> jrtayloriv: That said, it is possible to create a perfectly working implementation of the R5RS where all the phases are mingled together. Phase separation is not mandated by Scheme.
23:28:16 EleminoP [n=EleminoP@iub-vpn-193-181.noc.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme
23:29:23 <EleminoP> can someone explain to me how to use (cpu-time)?
23:30:19 <chandler> What implementation are you using?
23:30:42 <EleminoP> chez scheme
23:31:09 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-42-196.vinet.ba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:31:18 <chandler> And what part of the documentation do you have a question about?
23:33:10 <EleminoP> i don't understand how to reset the cpu time
23:33:29 <EleminoP> in order to measure how much cpu time it takes to perform a specific procedure
23:33:33 <chandler> Why do you think that you can, and why do you want to do that?
23:34:05 <chandler> It's a cumulative measure. Can you think of a way to use a cumulative measure to determine how long one procedure call takes?
23:34:09 <EleminoP> oh, i see
23:34:26 <EleminoP> yes, the end cpu time minues the starting cpu time
23:34:55 optimizer [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme
23:35:00 <chandler> If you look at the documentation, there's also a much more comprehensive `statistics' procedure which returns a structure, and a `sstats-difference' procedure for this structure type.
23:35:06 <jrtayloriv> chandler, Thanks for explaining that. So would it be correct to look at macro expansion as a form of "AST expansion" (correct term?) rather than text replacement? That is, does it make sense to parse my source text into s-expressions, and THEN expand macros, or do I need to expand somehow before parsing? (If I understood correctly, you are saying the former, I think...)
23:35:48 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:36:03 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
23:36:35 <chandler> jrtayloriv: You would naturally read the code into s-expressions first; however, macro expansion is not simple AST expansion in that it may introduce references to identifiers that may not ordinarily be lexically expressible in the language.
23:37:03 <chandler> Consider: (let ((x 1)) (let-syntax ((x^ (syntax-rules () ((_) x)))) (let ((x 2)) (x^))))
23:38:38 <chandler> You might want to look at the output of a simple macro expander like Alexpander.
23:39:54 *jrtayloriv* is looking at alexpander now
23:40:33 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:41:12 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
23:42:56 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:43:16 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme
23:45:41 <jrtayloriv> chandler, When you say "not lexically expressible in the language", you were referring to how x^ caused the local binding of x->2 to be ignored and replaced by the outer binding of x->1, which should have been shadowed, right?
23:45:48 <jrtayloriv> (just making sure I understood)
23:46:14 <chandler> Yes.
23:46:25 <jrtayloriv> ok, thanks
23:46:53 <chandler> You can do this by renaming identifiers of course, but it's a bit different than what I think of as "AST expansion".
23:47:51 schoppenhauer [n=christop@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #scheme
23:47:52 <jrtayloriv> I just made up the term "AST expansion", so I am likely not meaning whatever it is normally used for. I just mean that I would be transforming AST during macro expansion, rather than transforming text
23:49:16 <chandler> Right; that's true. I'm not aware of a strict definition of it, but I'd tend to associate it with Common Lisp-style macros, which operate on and produce s-expressions. Hygienic macros work with identifiers that have information about the lexical context that's not carried by an ordinary symbol.
23:50:11 -!- shiva8 [n=Administ@c-98-220-107-98.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:51:24 <jrtayloriv> hmmm ... maybe "hygenic macros" is the term I need to read more into ... I've been kind of skirting around it thus far, while I've been reading the introductory tutorials on macros
23:53:08 <jrtayloriv> Oh, I see -- it's basically just the solution to the problem you showed in the example above.
23:53:55 -!- ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
23:54:29 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
23:54:42 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@users-38-184.vinet.ba] has joined #scheme
23:56:05 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@89-65.res.pomona.edu] has quit ["Leaving"]
23:56:27 ASau [n=user@ppp85-141-213-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #scheme