00:01:40 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 00:04:23 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:10:18 dysinger [n=dysinger@71-20-35-99.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #scheme 00:12:44 ofthelesser [n=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:12:59 -!- ofthelesser [n=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:17:23 incubot: What is the antonym of "syntactic sugar"? 00:17:27 "Deaky" could be an antonym for "freaky" for all I know, that would just at to the freakiness (but not, therefore, to the deakiness). 00:18:11 "Syntactic splenda"? 00:20:18 WP suggests "_ saccharin" for constructs that don't actually add convenience or readability. 00:21:08 "_ salt" exists for syntax that is overly explicit as a warning or reminder to the programmer. 00:21:53 I'm thinking of how Java doesn't explicitly provide closures with shared, mutable variables, but it can be done by creating a Box class and using that to wrap the references. 00:22:11 It's like... the preimage of some sugar. 00:22:23 Or something that needs sugar. 00:22:48 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-159-12.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:23:21 -!- masm [n=masm@bl7-197-242.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:23:22 "Syntactic starch"? 00:23:51 `Syntactic trans fats'? 00:24:14 `Syntactic monosodium glutamate'? 00:24:45 chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.3.122] has joined #scheme 00:24:55 "verbose" 00:25:16 `Syntactic yellow #6 with natural and artificial flavours'? 00:25:20 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:25:35 Riastradh: I like that! (All that's missing is sugar!) 00:25:48 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 00:25:57 does ypsilon scheme support recursive repls for exceptions/debugging? 00:26:03 (installing it + trying it appears to be no) 00:26:07 but not sure if i'm missig some option 00:26:39 drybowser6 [n=drybowse@ppp-70-226-195-157.dsl.spfdil.ameritech.net] has joined #scheme 00:29:40 "Recursive REPLs", *that's* what that's called! 00:29:59 sarcasm? or you were looking for this feature too? 00:30:06 Also known as, "Why are there numbers appearing at the prompt?" 00:30:13 -!- Archeron [n=wade@69.10.147.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:30:30 No sarcasm. I remember encountering it in SCSH and being very confused. 00:31:02 I later learned that it was good for something besides telling me how many typos I had made. 00:31:13 :-) 00:33:13 lowlycoder: Are you particularly insistent on an implementation of the R6RS? Otherwise, I'd suggest Scheme48 or MIT Scheme if you want this feature. 00:33:25 not r6rs, but a good ffi :-) 00:33:33 aren't mit-scheme/scheme48 not real use? 00:33:36 i.e. more educational 00:34:25 They were developed in academic environments much like PLT Scheme and Gambit. 00:34:48 gambit somehow seems the msot professional of all 3 00:34:53 except it's code is hard to read 00:34:54 lowlycoder: Scheme48 seems pretty down to earth. Can't speak for MIT Scheme. 00:40:21 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@71-20-35-99.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:40:33 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:46 arthurmaciel [n=user@201.80.20.127] has joined #scheme 00:43:47 hi 00:44:00 what is the definition of a association list? a list of pairs?? 00:45:22 Yep. 00:48:58 Riastradh: (list ("boo" (lambda (x) (print x))) ("zoo" (lambda (y) (print y)))) is a valid one? 00:49:01 -!- zachb [n=Zach@c-76-22-197-170.hsd1.ky.comcast.net] has quit ["http://irc2go.com/"] 00:49:43 Archeron [n=wade@69.10.147.2] has joined #scheme 00:50:17 If you are asking about an object whose external representation is that text, then no, because the first element is the symbol named LIST, which is not a pair. If you are asking about evaluating the expression externally represented by that text, well, I can't say, because you have tried to apply the strings "boo" and "zoo" as if they were procedures, which is an error. 00:51:33 -!- drybowser6 [n=drybowse@ppp-70-226-195-157.dsl.spfdil.ameritech.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:52:37 Riastradh: could you give me an alist that would have as a key "boo" and as a value the lambda expression, please? 00:52:53 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.89.226] has joined #scheme 00:52:57 (when I read the books I really believe I know scheme - bah!) 00:53:31 arthurmaciel: You need to construct a pair using cons. 00:53:31 rudybot: eval (assoc "boo" '(("boo" (lambda(x) x)) ("zoo" (lambda(y) y)))) 00:53:32 arthurmaciel: your sandbox is ready 00:53:32 arthurmaciel: ; Value: ("boo" (lambda (x) x)) 00:53:52 rudybot: eval (cdr (assoc "boo" '(("boo" (lambda(x) x)) ("zoo" (lambda(y) y))))) 00:53:54 arthurmaciel: ; Value: ((lambda (x) x)) 00:54:02 rudybot: eval (cadr (assoc "boo" '(("boo" (lambda(x) x)) ("zoo" (lambda(y) y))))) 00:54:03 arthurmaciel: ; Value: (lambda (x) x) 00:54:15 rudybot: eval ((cadr (assoc "boo" '(("boo" (lambda(x) x)) ("zoo" (lambda(y) y))))) 1234) 00:54:15 arthurmaciel: error: procedure application: expected procedure, given: (lambda (x) x); arguments were: 1234 00:54:28 thatīs exactly the error Iīm getting 00:54:38 rudybot: eval ((cadr (assoc "boo" '((cons "boo" (lambda(x) x)) (cons "zoo" (lambda(y) y))))) 1234) 00:54:38 arthurmaciel: error: cadr: expects argument of type ; given #f 00:54:52 rudybot: eval (assoc "boo" '((cons "boo" (lambda(x) x)) (cons "zoo" (lambda(y) y)))) 00:54:52 arthurmaciel: ; Value: #f 00:55:06 rudybot: eval (assoc "boo" '((cons 'boo (lambda(x) x)) (cons "zoo" (lambda(y) y)))) 00:55:07 arthurmaciel: ; Value: #f 00:55:16 rudybot: eval (assoc 'boo '((cons 'boo (lambda(x) x)) (cons "zoo" (lambda(y) y)))) 00:55:16 arthurmaciel: ; Value: #f 00:55:29 arthurmaciel: Please private message rudybot instead of filling the channel. 00:55:42 TimMc: could you help me with this, please? 00:55:48 Once you have what you want to show, you can have rudybot eval it here. 00:56:16 TimMc: the fact is I canīt get what I want 00:56:27 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 00:56:31 I want to apply the lambda that is the cdr of the pair of an alist 00:56:49 arthurmaciel, can you explain how Scheme evaluates the expression (QUOTE )? 00:57:01 arthurmaciel: The first thing you need to know is that '(lambda (x) x) is (list (quote lambda) (list (quote x)) (quote x)) 00:57:15 op 00:57:16 oops 00:57:38 arthurmaciel: You may be interested in quasiquote and unquote. 00:57:51 Riastradh: I believe that evaluates to itself 00:57:59 Riastradh: as it is preceed by quote 00:58:23 rudybot: eval `(1 2 3 ,(sqrt 16)) 00:58:24 TimMc: ; Value: (1 2 3 4) 00:58:28 arthurmaciel: ^ 00:59:08 On the other hand, maybe you should focus on acquiring quote before you move on to quasiquote... 01:00:23 TimMc: trying (list (cons "boo" (lambda(x) x))) worked 01:00:32 TimMc: thanks 01:00:32 arthurmaciel, if I evaluate the expression (QUOTE (X (LAMBDA () 5))), will the resulting value contain a procedure anywhere? 01:01:28 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 01:03:43 Riastradh: no 01:03:52 ofthelesser [n=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:03:55 Riastradh: it will evaluate it to itself 01:03:56 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50809DFA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:05:29 _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has joined #scheme 01:08:23 <_Pb> the little schemer says that collector functions are also called continuations--what? 01:08:31 <_Pb> is this true? 01:09:43 I'm not familiar with the term collector function 01:10:20 neither am I, but I remember that from the little schemer and I remember I stranged that the same way 01:10:54 <_Pb> yeah, i've been struggling with that chapter for about a year 01:11:09 <_Pb> i'll pastie the code in a bit 01:11:28 lisppaste: url 01:11:28 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 01:11:34 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:12:18 klutometis, Gerry Sussman just sent me a link that I think you would appreciate: . He wasn't sure what to make of it, and is soliciting opinions. He asked, `What do you make of it? Should we start a religion?' 01:12:53 <_Pb> okay, i'll use that 01:12:54 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:14:23 That's, um, interesting listening. 01:14:33 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 01:14:56 does (load doesnīt accept relative paths like "../footer.scm"? 01:15:10 Gee, Gerry Sussman also composes! heh 01:15:27 No, he didn't compose it. He has no idea who did. 01:15:52 Moses supposes that Sussman composes, but Moses supposes erroneously. 01:16:46 For Moses, he knowses that Suss don't composes, yet Moses...gosh, I can't remember the rest now. I guess I fail this elocution lesson. 01:16:47 Riastradh: it's from /prog/, which he may remember after receiving 'fan club' email 01:17:01 Sussman found it very strange, and deemed it unscientific 01:17:51 That's one possible description, I suppose. 01:21:14 -!- ofthelesser [n=oftheles@cpe-174-100-207-183.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:22:40 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable239.185-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:24:31 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-woxcuowhqmvexlrh] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:25:07 amttc_ [n=alex@74.190.186.125] has joined #scheme 01:25:24 TimMc: A good pre-course exercise for you is to figure out exactly *why* the default plt scheme language forbids one-sided `if' expressions. 01:25:57 chandler: The justification is certainly not the ugliness of unspecified values -- which in PLT are specified as `void' values. 01:26:13 <_Pb> alex? 01:26:33 eli: It was only a guess; can you explain the restriction to me? 01:27:23 -!- syntropy_ [n=who@unaffiliated/syntropy] has left #scheme 01:27:58 chandler: It's not a secret or something, but I was hoping that TimMc will try an explanation. (It involves `when' and `unless', and it is quite obvious.) 01:32:03 eli: Well, `when` and `unless` seem to be intended for use with side-effects. 01:32:18 ... It's a good way of annoying people like me, who would rather be using `when' everywhere, but have painstakingly trained themselves *not* to do so when using Scheme because it is not available in an arbitrary implementation of the R5RS? 01:33:22 I can see forcing `if` to be two-armed to distinguish it for instances where you provide two different computations for different results of the test. 01:33:37 I don't have any really specific ideas, though. 01:34:52 -!- Dawgmatix [n=dawgmati@c-68-32-44-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 01:35:59 TimMc: So we have (a) `when'/`unless' are indended for use with side effects; (b) one-sided `if' indented for _____; and (c) two-sided `if' indended for _____. 01:36:11 Fill in the blanks and you have the answer. 01:36:25 "indended"? 01:36:33 chandler: Also indented. 01:36:45 This is about *indentation*? 01:36:55 fix typos where applies. 01:36:58 chandler: This. Is. PYTHON! 01:37:15 Do you mean "indented" or "intended"? 01:37:23 chandler: Latter, certainly. 01:37:30 No indentation involved. 01:37:58 (Please indicate in advance getting into a spelling flamefest, so I'll know when to leave.) 01:38:17 I wasn't intending to get into a spelling flamefest; I was really quite confused for a moment. 01:38:27 (Typing these things while sifting through a half-a-day of drivel in my mail box is not easy.) 01:38:55 -!- subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:40:15 eli: One-sided `if` seems to be good only for side-effects as well. Two-sided `if` can be used either functionally (in my experience quite often for base cases) *or* for side effects. 01:41:02 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 01:41:34 If if-1 duplicates the functionality of `when` and `unless`, then that *might* be a reason for exclusion, perhaps for syntactic salt. 01:42:37 TimMc: So the thing is that 1-sided and 2-sided `if's are inherently very different -- the first is useful *only* for side-effects, and the second is useful for both. 01:43:06 For example, if you have a language with no side effects, the first becomes useless, and the second is sane. 01:43:16 It would take more than two hands to count the number of times I've used a 1-sided `if' for the return value of the `else' side. 01:43:56 Conflating the two into a single expression is therefore a wart in my (and in several other's) opinion, 01:44:16 Usually that looks like (if #f #f), and the result goes somewhere where (per what I think is an obvious stupidity in the R5RS) a value is both required and ignored. 01:44:24 `when' and `unless' are better in signaling the intention better, which would lead to less typos. 01:44:34 (=> less bugs) 01:45:02 chandler: you mean that you've used (if #f #f) whenever you wanted to return "the unspecified value"? 01:45:56 Yes. 01:46:32 Ugh, so jcowan has now officially turned the r6rs thread into c.l.l. 01:46:49 chandler: well, in that case I'd say that you suffer from two bigger problems: 01:47:31 (a) you're using the limited standard, which does make sense for some people -- but that's the only situation where something like (if #f #f) makes any sense 01:48:30 (b) this is another wart in the spec where "the unspecified value" is almost specified, enough that any sane implementation actually does specify it. 01:49:16 I'm not fond of "the unspecified value", but if the spec is going to force me to cough up a value to be ignored, I'll throw its own specification wart back at it. :-) 01:49:20 That is, it is a very small delta to get from the text to adding a single definition like: (define (void) (if #f #f)) -- and that gives you a proper handle on the value. 01:50:05 chandler: Yeah, I agree with that. My solution is to use a more specific standard... 01:50:35 In any event, when I run into the two-legs-good problem in PLT, I'm almost always using a single-legged `if' for side effect because I don't remember to use `when', and the issue has more to do with incorrect expectations from the word "scheme" appearing at the top of my file than anything else. 01:51:37 This is probably not worth the time I've spent complaining about it, and very soon my brain will adjust to this. 01:51:48 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:52:04 What did you mean about jcowan turning the scheme-report discussion into c.l.l - the comment about Haskell programmers, or something else? 01:54:22 chandler: You should write a little chandler-compatibility library that defines `when`, `unless`, and `void`. (And `meh`!) 01:55:42 chandler: Yes, we were aware of that -- and we decided that since this *is* the plt world, "scheme" means "scheme, as implemented by plt". Unlike the rnrs languages. 01:56:07 croteb1 [n=croteb@ool-18bc950f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 01:56:16 -!- croteb1 [n=croteb@ool-18bc950f.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 01:56:22 chandler: and re jcowan -- he finally got one of the threads all the way down to the inevitable c.l.l-style Latin analogies. 01:57:26 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-238.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit [] 01:58:22 -!- MononcQc [i=MononcQc@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING NEXT VERSION OF INTERNET"] 02:09:58 haesbaert [n=haesbaer@c925a8c5.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 02:12:42 dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 02:12:54 -!- dg_ [n=chatzill@host81-131-180-50.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:16:23 -!- _Pb [n=Pb@75.131.194.186] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:18:39 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 02:33:28 -!- easy4 [n=easy4@c-68-45-192-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:36:30 -!- arthurmaciel [n=user@201.80.20.127] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:37:48 -!- amttc_ [n=alex@74.190.186.125] has left #scheme 02:39:13 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:40:27 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:48:28 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:53:13 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176201233.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:53:23 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:36 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176211059.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:14:07 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #scheme 03:16:15 are there any general looping constructs in scheme besides lambda recursion? 03:16:53 MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:35:30 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:39:19 There are in specific implementations. Also check out foof's loop macros. 03:39:28 Unless you haven't tried a named let, yet? 03:43:37 hadronzoo [n=user@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 03:45:30 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:48:21 twobitsprite: sounds like you need a zygohistormophic prepromorphism to me 03:55:51 twobitsprite: All the ones I can think of are composed, deep-down, of lambda-based iteration. 03:57:37 Baconizer [n=Baconize@unaffiliated/baconizer] has joined #scheme 03:58:53 incubot: call-with-current-continuation 03:58:56 You should pass the current result value around 03:59:25 What's a good Scheme to learn? I was going to go with PLT, but I wanted to ask around first. 04:02:04 Baconizer: PLT is good. Just be aware that the default "Module" language is not R5RS compliant. If you need just basic ol' R5RS, PLT can provide that too. Just be aware of which language you are working in. 04:03:01 -!- hadronzoo [n=user@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 04:03:15 I recommend PLT because of the DrScheme tool it provides, which is great for editing and running Scheme. 04:03:44 amttc [n=alex@adsl-190-186-125.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 04:04:04 -!- amttc [n=alex@adsl-190-186-125.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #scheme 04:04:13 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:05:26 TimMc: I don't know what R5RS is D: 04:05:42 I'm very new to the World O' Lisp. 04:06:09 Baconizer: I see. 04:06:46 I recommend PLT because it's got so much documentation you'll have knowledge bleeding out your ears. 04:07:03 jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has joined #scheme 04:07:41 Well, that sounds painful, but oh well. :P 04:08:21 Baconizer: The first thing to know is that Scheme is not one language. There have been a number of official specifications (each being called RnRS), and then people go out and write implementations that conform to those specs to varying degrees. 04:08:26 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 04:09:04 TimMc: okay. 04:09:24 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-8.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:09:29 I'm new to scheme too, and it sounds massively frustrating to have a language with a very small standard being so unportable across implementations 04:09:35 The specs have historically only covered the very core of how a Scheme interpreter should behave, so all the "real-world" stuff is specific to the implementation. (This can be a problem if you want to share code between different interpreters.) 04:10:31 TimMc: That's not really true. Most implementations and features have some de facto standard library. 04:10:54 There is a pretty large set of libraries that can be considered relatively standard in Scheme. 04:11:02 arcfide: The SRFIs? 04:12:20 TimMc: SRFIs, standard repositories, &c. 04:13:01 arcfide: Where are these repos? 04:13:56 TimMc: sure, of course... I just was wondering if there were more convenient ways to loop than writing letrec's with lambdas... 04:14:00 TimMc: Things like Oleg's libraries, Riastradh's, Foof (Irregex), I would consider those pretty good starts, but Riastradh's probably shouldn't be considered very popular. 04:14:19 twobitsprite: I came in late, I assume foof loop has already been mentioned? 04:14:33 synx: named-let? 04:14:37 twobitsprite: Internal definitions are also obvious candidates. 04:15:08 arcfide: nope... haven't heard of foof loops, or internal definitions 04:15:18 TimMc: Often, minor libraries or basic ones can be ported from one Scheme to another with minimal or minor effort. 04:15:36 twobitsprite: Internal definitions are a more succinct way of writing LETREC* with lots of lambdas. 04:15:55 arcfide: do you just use (define) within a (define)? 04:16:01 twobitsprite: foof loop is a high-level, extensible set of looping macros. 04:16:26 twobitsprite: Here's an exercise for you: Try writing a macro for letrec. 04:16:30 twobitsprite: (let loop ((a 1) (b 1) (if (> a 10) a (loop b (+ a b)))) 04:16:34 oops 04:16:39 twobitsprite: (let loop ((a 1) (b 1)) (if (> a 10) a (loop b (+ a b)))) 04:16:52 That's what I mean by named-let 04:16:57 nifty 04:17:07 twobitsprite: (define (reverse lst) (define (loop res lst) (if (null? lst) res (loop (cons (car lst) res) (cdr lst)))) (loop '() lst)) 04:17:13 so "loop" is the name of the lambda... and a and b are arguments? 04:17:28 twobitsprite: Implementing let and let* as macros is fun. 04:17:31 twobitsprite: That's an example of an internal define, but it doesn't by you anything here. You would need to have a few internal definitions to make it useful. 04:17:50 TimMc: I'm pretty sure I understand the theory, but I haven't learned macros yet 04:18:25 I think I like named-let better... is that r5rs? if not, is it in chicken? 04:18:31 TimMc: Unfortunately, there are a number of implementation specific things that have no real need to be implementation specific. 04:18:40 twobitsprite: It is standard. 04:18:45 cool 04:19:10 twobitsprite: For most loops, name-lets are better than internal definitions, but in case of mutually recursive functions, sometimes internal definitions make sense. 04:19:22 arcfide: Yeah, I was getting to that (re: porting), but I didn't want to make claims that I *knew* I had no evidence for. :-P 04:19:35 *TimMc* hearts letrec* 04:19:37 *arcfide* wonders if he went overboard on C.L.S. 04:20:02 do r6rs implementations usually allow more portable code, given they cover lots of stuff? 04:20:15 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has quit ["Client exiting"] 04:20:34 MononcQc: from what I've seen, there are fewer r6rs implementations... but I may be wrong 04:20:42 does jdh still troll c.l.s.? 04:20:51 yeah, but if the few implementations fit together... 04:20:58 I've read about ikarus and larceny, among others 04:21:15 MononcQc: R6RS programs could potentially, and in theory, be more portable in that the range of things that are in the standard is greater, however, in practice, you should not rely on this, because this assumes that R6RS is the only standard implemented, as well as assuming that R6RS doesn't have its own portability quirks that may not have existed before. 04:21:34 I personally don't understand the need for extremely portable code unless you're writing an opensource library... I mean, build you code around your implementation, and run it in that 04:22:19 well, having one portable way to do things would imply needing to learn only one way to do things. 04:22:33 MononcQc: There is a fresh prerelease of the upcoming Chez Scheme 8.0 that is available. The Petite Chez Scheme version is available free from . I'm partial to it, and you can see directly the differences between the 7.9.3 version and the 7.4 version, one of which is R6RS, and the other is R5RS. 04:23:01 MononcQc: Schemers do things their own way, and who cares what the rest of the world thinks? 04:23:04 what does it do differently or better than others? 04:24:11 MononcQc: In general, if you look at other communities, you don't have many choices, so the choices in Schemeland initially may intimidate the new user into thinking that things aren't portable. In reality, they are no less portable than single implementation worlds that have no other ocmpetition, it's just that there are less people using any given implementation than in other communities. 04:24:58 arcfide, yeah. No choice is less choice than more options. The advantage however, is being able to follow one canonical source and use libraries from anyone no matter what 04:25:08 which is what I find nice with Erlang having a single VM implementation around ;) 04:25:14 MononcQc: i mostly mentioned it because you can see the differences between R5RS and R6RS in the implementation of a single Scheme, which isn't available elsewhere, except for PLT Scheme, but that's...interesting, since there is a lot of overlap there. 04:25:24 oh, nice then 04:25:59 I'm still working through SICP, so right now I've seen things working well with PLT's pretty big implementation (and custom options to let me overwrite already defined functions) 04:26:01 MononcQc: On the other hand, Chez Scheme is fast, and Petite Chez Scheme is not slow, relatively speaking. I'm the public advocate for Chez Scheme around here, so watch out. :-) 04:26:27 ikarus was the one attracting me the most because I am dumb and old benchmarks looked really interesting. 04:26:38 but yeah, there's more than benchmarks :P 04:27:46 MononcQc: You may be interested to know that Ikarus is the "child" spawn of Chez Scheme, in that Kent Dybvig, who wrote Chez Scheme, was the advisor of Aziz, who wrote Ikarus. They share some similar algorithms for doing things, though Ikarus is a very new kid, and Chez Scheme was called (jokingly) "A constant of the universe." 04:28:18 I see, 04:28:41 MononcQc: If you're working through SICP, it probably makes fine sense to stick with what is working for you until you are done and ready to try new things; that will reduce your trauma. 04:28:42 I'm probably going to do math exercises from a book I bought in scheme. I'll try implementing them in both (and then Erlang) just to see. 04:28:55 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 04:28:58 for now, yeah, I'll stick to what works now 04:29:36 MononcQc: I use Chez Scheme for commercial development, and I like the support I get, as well as the reliability and professional polish on Chez Scheme, combined with nice touches like an useful debugger, profilling, and native threading. 04:29:43 but yeah, it took me about 15 minutes to love prefix notation. I'll be looking towards clojure and then LFE, too. 04:29:53 Ugh, clojure.... 04:29:57 :-P 04:30:17 clojure breaks away with the syntax, but its parallelism is what is attractive. 04:30:25 I think, though, that PLT Scheme considers PrettyBig to be legacy. 04:30:27 HG` [n=HG@xdslfc015.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 04:30:51 arcfide, that's possible. I just took the first one that would let the stuff I had first written in MIT scheme work fine with the PLT stuff. 04:30:52 MononcQc: If you want parallelism, you may want to look at the Scheme implementations designed with that in mind. 04:31:03 what is that implementation? 04:31:09 MononcQc: Aw, you left MIT Scheme? :-( :-) I like MIT Scheme. 04:31:10 Hehehe. 04:31:31 MononcQc: I've forgotten the name, but search the Comp.lang.scheme archives and you'll find some announcements. 04:31:39 arcfide, it would compile weird on the ubuntu version I have, didn't have the prettier IDE, and I also spend half my time on win7, so PLT was nicer for that 04:31:41 Ypsilon maybe? I don't know. 04:31:51 Hah! 04:31:55 Prettier IDE. LOL 04:31:59 I usually use vim for everything (even scheme) but yeah 04:32:05 Them PLT guys really know what sells. ;-) 04:32:24 well, not really. It helps for trying stuff with sicp, but otherwise, all the devlopment I do is just in vim 04:32:28 Well, good luck with it! 04:32:39 python, php, erlang, (sometimes scheme), C, etc. 04:32:42 MononcQc: I use Acme, so, welcome to the non-Emacs club. 04:32:42 works fine. 04:32:58 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:33:04 I chose vim because it's mostly anywhere. I use it the same on my n810. 04:33:50 eh prettier IDE is a euphamism for saying PLT went and implemented it's own GUI toolkit from scratch. 04:34:03 it has arrows and stuff!!! 04:34:22 Hehe, I'm going to need to create some proper bindings pretty soon. 04:34:31 Motif or Qt...hrm...:-) 04:34:48 I think I've got a lib missing, so every other shell I use won,t let me replay the previous statements or use basic stuff like arrow keys 04:34:58 no idea why, I've got ncurses and everything 04:35:04 Um... 04:35:11 so I got fed up of fighting and just used drscheme 04:35:13 You might want to check TERM. 04:35:15 readline? $TERM set to dump? 04:36:20 $ echo $TERM 04:36:20 xterm 04:36:45 Huh... 04:36:57 I don't know how you are set up, so I can't really say, but that is weird. 04:37:02 Maybe you managed not to install termcap.. 04:37:10 But this all is strange 04:37:18 yeah, I know. 04:37:35 Do you have rlwrap executable anywhere? 04:37:41 the only interpreters behaving fine are Erlang's Eshell (implemented in Erlang) and python 2.5's one. 04:37:51 2.6 and 3.0 won't work correctly either 04:38:09 MichaelRaskin, installing it 04:38:10 MononcQc, zsh should also work fine, I guess 04:38:30 MichaelRaskin: libreadline 04:38:59 And install rlwrap, yeah. This program is great. 04:39:19 twobitsprite: Want to see LET as a macro? Then you can figure out how to do LET* yourself. 04:39:20 Axioplase, nickname completion went wrong.. 04:39:21 argh, bad name completion, I mean MononcQc of course. 04:40:01 The fun thing is that I was the one to first mention readline library 04:40:02 how does rlwrap work now. :B 04:40:10 rlwrap cat 04:40:39 Just to try 04:40:52 Should give you cat with line history 04:41:06 oh I see. 04:41:16 rlwrap will solve my problems it seems :) 04:41:38 I would not be surprised if you could get python 2.6 to work now 04:41:45 As well as bash 04:41:47 ikarus works fine 04:41:59 bash was ok. it was only language interpreters that wouldn't work right 04:42:00 I mean, even without rlwrap 04:42:20 I have readline5. The only other available in the repos is 64bit, but I'm on 32. 04:42:24 bash is a language interpreter, I once wrote a small site in CGI in bash! 04:43:29 Some language interpreters could be just built that way by a dependency-cutting maintainer. Who uses rlwrap anyway, and so doesn't notice the problem 04:43:40 For python, use ipython 04:43:58 It may be able to get you history and completion without rlwrap now.. 04:44:04 I haven't touched python in a while, though. 04:44:10 erlang and scheme take all my time outside of work 04:44:24 (http://learnyousomeerlang.com is taking most of it!) 04:54:46 well, I've downloaded the libs, recompiled ikarus and it still doesn't work. rlwrap will have to do 05:03:21 off to sleep, thanks for the help MichaelRaskin and arcfide (and Axioplase ) 05:04:12 -!- MononcQc [n=parseido@modemcable062.225-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["DOWNLOADING LATEST VERSION OF THE INTERNET"] 05:11:29 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit ["off"] 05:11:57 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 05:13:46 Summermute66 [n=scott@c-68-55-207-173.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:14:33 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:16:40 -!- reprore 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MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 06:18:24 syntropy_ [n=who@unaffiliated/syntropy] has joined #scheme 06:22:42 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@80.65.72.29] has joined #scheme 06:24:59 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 06:25:42 this is weird; is it possible to define a macro (run-once ...) so that even if (run-once ...) is embedded in the function of a body, it's only executed once, even if the function is called multiple times? 06:27:50 you could use delay/force perhaps 06:27:58 No, leppie. 06:28:09 That doesn't work without some analogue of Common Lisp's LOAD-TIME-VALUE. 06:28:35 o ok 06:28:36 If you had a LOAD-TIME-VALUE, then you could expand (RUN-ONCE ) into (FORCE (LOAD-TIME-VALUE (DELAY ))). 06:30:56 -!- Summermute [n=scott@c-68-55-207-173.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:31:52 I want to read a bunch of files, concat them together into one large string, and pass that though an input pipe to a program, in Chicken Scheme. 06:32:20 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syntropy_: What's wrong with `cat foo.txt bar.txt baz.txt | quux.exe`? 13:08:30 (Half-serious, here.) 13:08:58 -!- TimMc_ is now known as TimMc 13:12:10 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:12:11 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 13:14:26 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 13:21:38 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:23:06 underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 13:23:06 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:23:10 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 13:23:35 -!- underspecified_ is now known as underspecified 13:24:22 Vapour [n=vapour@213.239.193.124] has joined #scheme 13:25:28 timmc: unless quux.exe reads from stdin... 13:29:40 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@206.80.252.37] has joined #scheme 13:35:47 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:36:20 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 13:38:11 -!- dlouhy_ is now known as dlouhy 13:39:41 rudybot: later tell arcfide prettiness is unrelated, it's convenience for newbies and functionality of the tool -- "create some proper bindings" is a *tiny* fraction of the work you need to do to get an equivalent; DrScheme has taken years to get to where it is now, and it still needs years of work. Being naive about this work will guarantee the dead-end-ness of what you're trying to do. 13:39:42 minion: memo for arcfide: eli told me to tell you: prettiness is unrelated, it's convenience for newbies and functionality of the tool -- "create some proper bindings" is a *tiny* fraction of the work you need to do to get an equivalent; DrScheme has taken years to get to where it is now, and it still needs years of work. Being naive about this work will guarantee the dead-end-ness of what you're trying to do. 13:40:04 *eli* slaps the space where minion is supposed to be. 13:42:06 *chandler* transfers the slap to freenode 13:42:32 how is freenode related? 13:42:42 Was it banned or something? 13:42:45 I'm having connection difficulties. 13:42:58 One of their servers is down, but still appearing in DNS. 13:43:15 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 13:47:24 duoc0rn [n=34613234@heyah20909nc-0.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #scheme 13:47:32 -!- duoc0rn [n=34613234@heyah20909nc-0.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has left #scheme 13:49:04 RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@92.36.198.115] has joined #scheme 13:50:17 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:51:34 Yeah, I seem to have DC'd at 04:55 ET 13:53:49 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@80.65.72.29] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:56:30 -!- cracki [n=cracki@45-145.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 13:56:37 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 13:56:45 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:59:23 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:01:26 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 14:04:05 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 14:04:12 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 14:04:29 minion: Welcome back! 14:04:30 thanks! 14:06:48 -!- haesbaert [n=haesbaer@c925a8c5.virtua.com.br] has quit [Client Quit] 14:07:20 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.3.122] has left #scheme 14:12:32 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 14:20:44 minion: Why are you any better than /msg MemoServ send ? 14:20:45 why do you want to know? 14:24:31 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 14:25:10 TimMc: minion delivers memos in-channel, which is more appropriate for a public conversation. 14:25:22 True. 14:25:36 MemoServ: Why can't you be more like minion? 14:26:02 MemoServ can't hear you from here, better memo it 14:27:13 Jafet: I wonder... 14:27:44 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 14:27:50 Aw, it's not a proper nick, so I can't send it memos. :-P 14:29:01 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 14:31:34 -!- jeapostrophe [n=jay@69.169.141.110.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net] has quit [] 14:34:46 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:36:02 offby1 [n=user@206.124.138.125] has joined #scheme 14:36:57 bweaver [n=user@c-68-60-0-190.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:39:12 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 14:40:06 memoserv also requires that you know how to use it. For something that is used rarely enough to not be paged in, that's an expensive 30 second overhead. 14:40:40 Amortize by writing a script for your client that does it 14:41:24 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.28.167.getinternet.no] has quit [Client Quit] 14:42:06 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46:29 -!- bweaver [n=user@c-68-60-0-190.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:50:06 -!- elmex [i=elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:50:38 -!- tonyg [n=tonyg@host226.lshift.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:57:20 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 14:57:30 jlongster [n=user@69-196-152-229.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 15:00:24 -!- Sveklo1 [n=sveklo1@a88-115-8-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:02:48 -!- ASau [n=user@77.246.231.120] has quit ["off!"] 15:05:44 amttc [n=alex@adsl-190-186-125.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 15:06:55 -!- FufieToo [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:09:56 tonyg [n=tonyg@host226.lshift.net] has joined #scheme 15:13:29 -!- jlongster [n=user@69-196-152-229.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:11 -!- amttc [n=alex@adsl-190-186-125.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #scheme 15:16:12 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:16:42 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 15:23:15 -!- Vapour [n=vapour@213.239.193.124] has left #scheme 15:25:48 jlongster [n=user@69-196-152-229.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 15:30:15 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:31:16 reprore [n=reprore@116.82.73.92] has joined #scheme 15:32:44 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:33:52 -!- reprore [n=reprore@116.82.73.92] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:35:19 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:36:39 -!- danfowler [n=Dfowler@ip-66-9-231-226.autorev.intellispace.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:45:23 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-gujjxqbxqwgrhnyu] has joined #scheme 15:45:34 jonrafkind [n=jon@155.98.68.48] has joined #scheme 16:06:32 sepulte [n=user@xdsl-87-78-103-253.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 16:07:56 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-243.netcologne.de] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:07:59 -!- sepulte is now known as sepult 16:12:49 -!- jlongster [n=user@69-196-152-229.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:26:05 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:26:53 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:35:17 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.200.241] has quit [] 16:39:29 elmex [i=elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has joined #scheme 16:41:52 leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.200.241] has joined #scheme 16:48:27 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 16:56:01 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-93-124.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 16:57:22 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@static-70-108-241-27.res.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:01 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 17:19:11 mmc [n=mima@cs137104.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 17:19:41 rudybot: eval (let ((k #'k)) (with-syntax ((k k)) (list k))) 17:19:43 leppie: your sandbox is ready 17:19:43 leppie: error: eval:1:42: k: pattern variable cannot be used outside of a template in: k 17:19:50 o k.. 17:23:18 leppie: Maybe you should start seeing other identifiers. 17:23:30 lol 17:25:05 my brain says it happens logically at different 'phases' 17:31:59 zachb [n=zachb@c-76-22-197-170.hsd1.ky.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:32:35 if 2 bindings are bound-identifier=?, the will always have the same name? iow I could use (datum->syntax (symbol-hash id)) as a hash procedure? 17:32:48 I am using PLT Scheme and I need to use an if statement to see if there is text in a text field, if not, display a message box, if so, write the text to a file. 17:32:54 s/the/they/ 17:32:57 How do I do this. 17:33:26 i guess string-length would be handly 17:33:34 I know how to see if there is text, and display a message if there is not, but how do I get it to write the text to file, if any? 17:34:03 I use (let ([text (send fn get-value)]) (if (equal? text "") (message-box "Invalid" "Please enter your full name!" #f '(ok caution)) fn1)) 17:34:07 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 17:34:11 (display "your string" output-port) 17:34:12 zachb: (if (procedure-that-tests-field?) (write-results) (show error)) 17:35:10 would I be able to just modify the code I am currenlty using? 17:36:16 if you provide the 'else' part of the IF, yes 17:36:40 actually i dunno 17:36:46 I tried to put this as the else part, but it doesn't work: (with-output-to-file "C:/ZBrownTechnology/VirtualClassroom/p.txt" 17:37:16 you need to provide a proc argument to that procedure 17:37:20 (lambda () (printf pw1))) 17:37:33 sorry, forgot to paste that! S) 17:37:37 :) 17:38:45 and what happens? it looks correct 17:38:53 zachb: you might want to hit http://paste.lisp.org/ and put the whole code up 17:39:29 hold on, think I figured it out. 17:40:24 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:41:05 sometimes it just helps trying to explain it to someone else to get the answer 17:41:28 Yep! It works now. :) 17:41:29 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:41:39 more than often one finds the answer when one is looking for the correct way to formulate the problem 17:41:49 Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has joined #scheme 17:43:02 would you know how I would do this? I think it needs an if statement: 17:43:27 Check for 6 files in a directory, if they are there, close the program, if not, do nothing. 17:44:52 something like: (when (andmap file-exists? '("file1" "file2" ...)) (exit 0)) 17:45:24 cool 17:46:38 later on you will learn to just write code like that, as you think it :) 17:47:07 that will be cool 17:47:17 I am that way with Python 17:47:32 I am still basic HTML, not much for web programming. 17:47:43 It took me about 12-18 months to get there after 5-6 years of C#/.NET 17:47:57 WOW! 17:48:25 its not that long, given how long it took me to get to that level in C#/.NET 17:49:07 When the file already exists, it shows an error, can it overwrite the file? 17:49:16 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-8.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 17:49:19 but then again, I started completely back to front, I wrote a scheme compiler before I even knew how to code more than a few lines of it 17:49:39 you could try (delete-file fn) 17:49:46 what is the compiler called? 17:49:49 OK cool 17:49:52 or there might be options to the open-file-XXX proc 17:49:59 IronScheme 17:50:04 that is wierd, it actually made sense! :) 17:50:59 i learnt the semantics before the syntax, which was an easier transistion from .NET semantics 17:51:23 oh, 17:51:43 syntax is irrelevant really 17:51:52 it could be any thing 17:51:55 well, python is easier to program when it comes to some things, but I find the code for PLT Scheme to flow better than python. 17:52:05 but what it does, that's the important bit 17:52:35 i never liked python because of the indentation thingy 17:52:57 It can't be worse than lisp 17:53:02 ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 17:53:36 yeah, those offby1 parentheis errors... 17:54:06 Yeah, they were a pain to learn, but now I can program a software with over 15000 lines of code. 17:54:08 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-8.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 17:54:14 they can go unnoticed for ages, till you hit that 0.1% condition that fails 17:54:29 I am working on it now, it is almost done. 17:54:31 lines of code means nothing 17:54:37 more is worse in coding 17:54:43 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit ["restart"] 17:55:23 i work with people that write tonnes of code, and then I need to go and refactor it down to a half or less... 17:55:46 I know, but my point is there were more errors when it came to indentation an parenthises 17:56:37 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:00:02 you won't normally experience parenthetical errors as long as you use an editor which indents properly [emacs], and especially so if using paredit 18:00:30 zbigniew: and spoil the fun of counting them? 18:00:30 incubot: parenthetical errors, I suppose, being errors that are written in the margin 18:00:33 \geometry{compat2,margin=1.0in,nofoot,headheight=35.2pt,% 18:00:35 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A286.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 18:01:13 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-8.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:01:16 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-8.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:01:35 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-8.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:01:54 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-8.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:02:22 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-14-211-8.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:02:27 leppie: true. you can make up for that fun in other ways: coloring each paren pair in a different color so you have a seizure, or making each enclosing pair successively larger so as to push all other text off the screen 18:03:05 -!- Jafet [n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:03:08 or use a unique unicode code point for each grouper! 18:03:16 yes, i use lisppaste for that :p 18:04:07 mmm 18:05:00 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 18:13:26 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:15:55 I am not sure how to get it to see if the file is there, then delete it. 18:16:01 (if it is there) 18:16:50 (when (file-exists? fn) (delete-file fn)) ... 18:17:01 thanks 18:19:17 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 18:19:56 zachb: Is this just so you can overwrite files? 18:20:00 I used it and it said: when: bad syntax 18:20:22 TimMc: Uhh, yeah. But, they are my files. 18:21:13 zachb: ... 18:21:21 I would assume so, yes. 18:21:26 zachb: What implementation are you using? 18:21:30 PLT 18:21:43 Anyway, I think there's a flag you can pass to the file writing procedure that will allow it to overwrite. 18:21:59 zachb: If you just want to overwrite a file, it's better to use an option that lets you overwrite the file when you open the file port for writing. That's much better than doing it beforehand. 18:22:15 The PLT Documentation should show you how to use their varient of CALL-WITH-OUTPUT-FILE. 18:22:29 URL? 18:23:26 found the docs, how about an easy to understand example? 18:23:28 Speaking of paredit (a little while ago), there are still some patches in that I am considering for inclusion in paredit 22 about which I am still soliciting feedback but have yet to receive much. 18:24:43 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 18:26:22 would I go: 18:27:16 (call-with-output-file "C:/..." ('replace) (lambda () (printf "text"))) 18:34:45 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:35:44 Riastradh: thanks for the link; i almost wish it were less aleatoric; it makes me yearn, actually, to write some rigorous counterpoint in honor of sussman 18:36:12 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:36:17 Riastradh: something numerologically pregnant; maybe even a counterpoint framework in scheme 18:37:25 Sveklo_ [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 18:37:28 isn't that a bit extreme? 18:39:32 leppie: what? 18:39:43 Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #scheme 18:40:40 all those big words 18:40:46 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:41:48 leppie: well, fugue writing is the original procedural composition, i believe; 18:42:03 leppie: maybe one can make the case that it's functional 18:42:28 leppie: but that requires a lambda calculus of music 18:42:40 ok. 18:44:21 klutometis: I assume you are referring to the MP3? 18:44:29 TimMc: yeah 18:44:49 I'm not sure it dignifies a response, actually. 18:45:09 interesting idea; poor execution 18:45:24 *leppie* is still clueless 18:46:41 leppie: http://www.tindeck.com/listen/stwv 18:46:54 leppie: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/scheme/2009-08/scheme-2009.08.26.txt @ 01:12:18 18:47:00 is that some shakespear thing? 18:49:09 leppie: it's a vaguely sicp thing 18:49:40 omg this is aweful, bad early 90's flashbacks! 18:50:28 that just hurt my brain :( 18:51:52 unless I am missing some hidden message thingy.. 18:53:51 -!- Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:54:15 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:54:39 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 18:56:49 zachb: (call-with-output-file "C:/..." #:exists 'replace (lambda (o) (fprintf o "text\n"))) 18:57:02 zachb: or (with-output-to-file "C:/..." #:exists 'replace (lambda () (printf "text\n"))) 18:57:15 arcfide: prettiness is unrelated, it's convenience for newbies and functionality of the tool -- "create some proper bindings" is a *tiny* fraction of the work you need to do to get an equivalent; DrScheme has taken years to get to where it is now, and it still needs years of work. Being naive about this work will guarantee the dead-end-ness of what you're trying to do. 19:04:37 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-cwazwnzphmkpftqo] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 19:06:20 cool, thanks eli 19:12:14 -!- Sveklo_ [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:12:47 Sveklo [n=sveklo@cs181131.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 19:16:45 Why does it keep saying: if: bad syntax (has 8 parts after keyword) 19:17:08 this is the if statement I am using: (let ([text (send fn get-value)]) (if (equal? text "") (message-box "Invalid" "Please enter your full name!" #f '(ok caution)) (with-output-to-file "C:/ZBrownTechnology/VirtualClassroom/fn.txt" #:exists 'replace (lambda (o) (printf fn1))) 19:20:48 how is this bad syntax? 19:21:01 zachb: if only takes three arguments 19:21:11 if you want a sequence of events in one branch, use begin 19:21:24 how? 19:21:29 (if #t (begin (one) (two))) 19:21:36 Oh, OK 19:22:07 But I only have 2 parts, if and else. 19:22:37 -!- heat_ [n=dima@8.21.172.227] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:23:34 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslga139.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 19:24:10 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-103-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24:20 oh, I misread your nesting... you may have too? that expression doesn't end at the end of the line you posted 19:25:28 zachb: What are you using as an editor? 19:26:32 heat [n=dima@8.21.172.227] has joined #scheme 19:28:30 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A286.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 19:29:56 I figured it out, I was missing a paren 19:30:04 umm... 19:30:28 Why does it say Interactions Disabled? 19:30:34 I am using Dr Scheme 19:31:19 and it says Evaluation Terminated after I run my script, but before it is finished. 19:31:26 How do I fix or stop this? 19:32:14 -!- bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslga139.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 19:35:24 The D.A. called Stancl's scheme "sinister" and "malicious." 19:36:18 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 19:36:27 I didn't even know I was running an evaluation. :( 19:36:31 What is this??? 19:39:50 something about evaluation thread 19:41:45 bakkdoor [n=bakkdoor@xdslct130.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 19:44:35 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 19:44:44 It says; The evaluation thread is no longer running, so no evaluation can take place until the next execution. 19:44:57 How do I stop it from running in evaluation thread? 19:51:29 -!- zachb [n=zachb@c-76-22-197-170.hsd1.ky.comcast.net] has quit ["http://irc2go.com/"] 19:53:00 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A286.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 20:16:35 rouslan [n=Rouslan@pool-64-223-173-10.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #scheme 20:20:17 -!- HG` [n=HG@xdslfc015.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:27:18 exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.24.241] has joined #scheme 20:27:28 drybowser6 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[n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 21:44:54 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@88.235.24.241] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:50:03 *facepalm* So, it turns out the realtor wasn't supposed to allow me to take over that guy's lease, at least without telling the landlord. 21:50:30 I bet they're gonna get *reamed* tomorrow. 21:51:21 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:54:40 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has joined #scheme 21:54:55 Well. 21:55:03 I have climbed the great mountain. 21:55:09 I have spoken with the Ascended Masters. 21:55:17 I have been told Things Man Was Not Meant To Know. 21:55:30 I have been asked the Ultimate -- or Penultimate -- Question. 21:55:33 And I have returned. 21:55:44 Unscathed, perhaps, but not unchanged. 21:55:44 what is it ? 21:56:17 If I told you that, I'd have to turn your brain over to Yog-Sothoth for, hmm, appropriate disposition. 21:57:01 Hello, jcowan. 21:57:13 What ho, chandler. 21:58:43 -!- haesbaert [n=haesbaer@201.54.129.16] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:58:52 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@129.170.241.32] has joined #scheme 22:02:45 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:03:28 *jcowan* whacks halfheartedly on his Javascript egg 22:03:30 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:04:02 jcowan, why are you doing that? 22:04:11 (also, hullo!) 22:06:13 I learned of an amazingly perverse `web page' utility today, called `TiddlyWiki'. I wanted to read an entry in someone's blag to which I found a link, only to discover that it was encoded in this perverse `TiddlyWiki' concept. 22:06:13 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:06:26 Riastradh: Ain't it great? 22:06:51 Hm. http://www.symbolics.com/ - when did that die? 22:06:53 Even better, someone has piled even more JS on top of that to create a GTD app that runs off of it. 22:07:06 chandler: Eeep! 22:07:20 a non-linear personal web notebook, apparently :o 22:07:26 sounds exciting 22:07:39 copumpkin: I use it for storing random tiny bits of text. 22:07:48 I use these things called `text files' for that. 22:08:01 Riastradh: That's disgusting! 22:08:05 lol 22:08:11 E.g., . 22:09:00 chandler, according to whois, something happened yesterday. 22:09:03 you need a dynamically generated text file from an enormous RDBMS, or you aren't cool enough 22:09:03 Updated Date: 25-aug-2009 22:09:40 Hm. It seems to have transferred to http://xf.com/ . 22:10:05 chandler: Well... fuck. 22:10:11 That's a domain broker. 22:10:34 I don't care about the domain, but I wonder what the current state of the lurching remains of Symbolics is. 22:11:02 The domain is a part of internet history too! It was the very first one registered. 22:11:04 chandler: But but but! "Record created on 15-Mar-1985" 22:11:18 Oh, right. I forgot about that. 22:11:53 The old symbolics.com web page had a telephone number and an address on it. 22:11:58 You could look it up in web.archive.org. 22:11:59 gnomon: in hopes of finishing it some time this millennium 22:16:36 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@129.170.241.32] has quit [] 22:17:08 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@129.170.241.32] has joined #scheme 22:17:38 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 22:18:36 I suppose Dan Weinreb might know? 22:21:07 That's just what I was thinking. 22:27:22 chandler: the old phone number was -- 703-455-0430 (voice) -- David Schmidt, -- Dir. of Sales & Maintenance Operations 22:27:35 Yes, I see it. I haven't tried calling it, and probably won't. 22:27:51 k. Just wanted to make sure you'd seen it. 22:27:58 djanatyn [n=jukni@68-247-193-178.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #scheme 22:28:02 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:33:52 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 22:38:24 subversus [i=elliot@loveturtle.net] has joined #scheme 22:40:01 -!- Baconizer is now known as BACON 22:41:41 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 22:42:54 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 22:47:07 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:48:11 -!- BACON is now known as Baconizer 22:58:01 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:00:11 -!- hadronzoo [n=user@ppp-70-251-128-236.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:01:58 dysinger [n=dysinger@71-20-35-99.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #scheme 23:03:10 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-rvjfkicjsfxbgvqy] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:05:51 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p5080A286.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:07:06 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@155.98.68.48] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08:08 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-sfkjtzeexuemhwod] has joined #scheme 23:10:06 incubot: having just learned of the baader-meinhof phenomenon, i saw a preview for "baader-meinhof complex"; it was a classic meta-baader-meinhofism 23:10:09 TUNES is a perfect example of the OHCSOAP phenomenon 23:10:49 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 23:14:25 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:14:53 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 23:21:39 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:26:02 -!- dysinger [n=dysinger@71-20-35-99.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:28:45 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:29:00 -!- djanatyn [n=jukni@68-247-193-178.pools.spcsdns.net] has left #scheme 23:31:31 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:32:36 -!- RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@92.36.198.115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:37:30 samth [n=samth@c-67-186-134-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:39:31 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:43:40 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:50:48 WTF? The Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon WP article has been deleted! 23:53:27 TimMc: yeah; i was trying to figure out if there was any irony there, but i don't think so 23:57:20 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 23:58:26 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.129] has quit ["Leaving"]