00:11:51 -!- Keyframe2 [n=Keyframe@78-1-176-51.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:11:51 -!- [1]Keyframe2 is now known as Keyframe2 00:16:42 papna [n=mike@97-91-168-194.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 00:19:33 ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:23:36 -!- saccade [n=saccade@c-66-31-201-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:43:01 QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has joined #scheme 00:44:27 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:46:08 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:48:52 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 00:49:01 -!- REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:49:13 REPLeffect [n=REPLeffe@69.54.115.254] has joined #scheme 00:51:01 chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.15.104] has joined #scheme 00:52:23 -!- mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-be65bb782d9fc6c7] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:56:10 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:56:44 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 00:56:49 -!- `Peter [n=pk@188-23-4-181.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [] 01:09:45 -!- MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@89.146.165.2] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:18:23 -!- nasloc__ [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:18:37 timchen1` [i=tim@kalug.ks.edu.tw] has joined #scheme 01:20:20 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:39:54 elf [i=elf@antenora.aculei.net] has joined #scheme 01:43:14 refusenik [n=refuseni@pool-71-246-115-53.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:50:21 -!- refusenik [n=refuseni@pool-71-246-115-53.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit ["bye!"] 01:57:08 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:04:16 incubot: chevrolet 02:04:36 incubot: chevrons 02:04:38 BTW, the double chevrons (actually double double doubles) are there now (on docs.plt-scheme.org), and I also did the scroll the pane to view when it opens. 02:05:50 8 chevrons? 02:07:05 incubot: dodge 02:07:08 Holy TIME WARP, the variegated CHICKEN STOCK is clogging my DODGE CHARGER. 02:08:18 incubot: Who said that? 02:08:21 Someone once said 3490763233 is the first ten-digit prime number in e 02:12:19 -!- Keyframe2 [n=Keyframe@78-1-143-74.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew."] 02:17:10 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 02:24:53 -!- rocketman [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:28:43 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-202.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:36:38 karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:52:21 -!- Hydr4 [n=Lernaean@24-107-112-153.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:53:24 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176199180.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:08 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:56:36 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:06:26 sounds like the answer to the Google recruiting billboard from a buncha years agao 03:06:28 ago 03:08:13 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176223083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:11 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 03:14:09 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 03:19:38 Did I imagine it, or was schemeunit once part of PLT proper, as opposed to a PLaneT package? 03:25:23 No, it's the other way, sort of. 03:32:39 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:33:16 well, it's been a Planet package for a long time, hasn't it? 03:38:58 Yes, and recently it was added to the plt tree too, but it's not distributed still. 03:39:35 aaah 03:39:54 I must have been using a mzscheme that I built from source 03:40:04 I have some code that says (require schemeunit schemeunit/text-ui) 03:41:05 That's generally a good idea only if you're the only one who intends to run that code. 03:41:17 ? 03:41:35 do go on 03:41:45 *eli* munches 03:42:39 If you give it to someone else, they won't be able to use it unless they have a from-svn build, or the "full" distribution. 03:42:45 oh, sure 03:43:02 I thought you meant "don't use schemeunit in general". 03:43:06 in other news ... is there an idiom for throwing away some values? Like I have (for/fold ([sum 0][factor 1]) ... (values (+ sum factor) (* factor whatever))) ... and when the loop finishes, I'm only interested in "sum". 03:43:21 Right now I'm using call-with-values but that's awfully verbose 03:44:08 I'll be able to say "don't use schemeunit" only if I ever get to implement my planned alternative. 03:44:22 :-) 03:44:33 rudybot: eval (car (call-with-values (lambda () (values 1 2 3)) list)) 03:44:35 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 03:44:35 *offby1: ; Value: 1 03:44:37 *shudder* 03:44:43 There's Got To Be A Better Way 03:45:03 I bet it's obvious, too :-\ 03:45:10 (And I do... collects/tests/eli-tester.ss) 03:45:17 *eli* munches, still 03:45:42 You could turn it into a macro. 03:46:23 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:46:34 But for `for/fold', it might justify adding some way to say that eventually you want only the first value. 03:46:39 Or something. 03:46:53 huh 03:47:18 there've been so many neat little convenience things added recently -- like "curry" -- that I figured something like this must be in there too 03:52:15 rudybot: eval (let-values (((a . ignore) (values 1 2 3))) a) 03:52:15 leppie: your sandbox is ready 03:52:15 leppie: error: eval:1:14: let-values: bad syntax at: (a . ignore) in: (let-values (((a . ignore) (values 1 2 3))) a) 03:53:26 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:54:23 eli: shouldnt the formals be the same as for a lambda/ 03:54:24 ? 03:56:11 *eli* finished the munching 03:56:22 Sorry, it's impolite to talk with a full mouth. 03:56:53 Anyway -- 03:56:57 offby1: `curry' is broken in some important way that I didn't think of at the time, and I never got to fix it. 03:57:13 offby1: But like I said -- just raise it on the list and see what other people thing. 03:57:21 s/ng/nk/ 03:57:27 leppie: No, it's not. 03:57:48 leppie: Matthew once describe his reason as reducing the number of errors, I think. 04:10:47 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-551c6046df03ab53] has joined #scheme 04:12:26 eli: r6rs describes it's formals the same as for lambda, so many subtle differences... 04:15:11 *offby1* idly wonders: what's purple and commutes? 04:17:50 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:18:48 offby1: An abelian grape? 04:19:19 TimMc: why, that's AWFUL 04:19:28 how dare you make a pun like that. I mean, really 04:19:48 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 04:19:53 I know. 04:20:02 incubot: It's horrible, innit? 04:20:05 well, plus-5 is just a name for ((curried +) 5), innit? 04:20:07 leppie|work: Yes, there's a lot of them. 04:20:17 incubot: Charlie's good tonight, innt he? 04:20:20 sarabot, how are you tonight? 04:24:44 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 04:31:25 -!- Elly [n=elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:33:28 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 04:34:00 oldsmobile442 [i=asas@85.138.244.167] has joined #scheme 04:35:08 -!- oldsmobile442 [i=asas@85.138.244.167] has left #scheme 04:54:04 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:54:21 reprore__ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:59:18 "define-syntax-rule" sure makes macros easier 05:03:21 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:05:33 -!- reprore__ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:05:47 bobby: freedom is just another word for call-with-current-continuation 05:06:08 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:06:50 Feeling good was good enough for me 05:17:53 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:19:16 Elly [n=elly@unaffiliated/elly] has joined #scheme 05:23:57 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:31:59 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:33:01 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:33:27 so... variadic C functions in plt's FFI... 05:33:54 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:36:49 Oh, use get-ffi-obj for every call of it, building the arguments dynamically. 05:39:35 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 05:41:45 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:41:52 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:43:28 -!- parolang [n=user@keholmes.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:44:26 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:44:53 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:50:01 Adamant [n=Adamant@66.213.192.210] has joined #scheme 05:50:08 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 05:54:02 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:54:04 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:55:48 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:56:17 *jcowan* unvanishes. 05:58:32 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:59:24 In plt, why is it when you return #'(require "foo.ss") from a syntax transformer, it doesn't require foo.ss? 06:00:42 It does. 06:01:00 Only in a context that is not visible outside of your macro. 06:01:37 Oh good, afraid I was missing something terribly important. 06:02:38 No, it's not important at all. 06:02:47 Unless you want to use those bindings. 06:03:15 I do wish to use those bindings... 06:03:21 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 06:03:49 I'm returning a syntax from the syntax transformer... not sure how that relates to a macro. 06:04:28 syntax transformer is what is sometimes known in the scheme biz as a "macro". 06:05:56 Oh, I thought macros were different... anyway, I hardly understand what happens to the syntax I return from a ...macro. 06:06:50 Nothing, it gets used as the result of the macro. 06:07:34 Used by what? 06:08:12 You said it gets used by something... that is only visible inside of the macro? 06:08:33 This conversation is surreal. 06:08:41 All brains are busy. 06:08:50 Please try again at a later time. 06:08:57 I thought it just got folded back into the syntax of the module. But returning #'(require ...) is not the same as requiring in the module, clearly. 06:08:57 Error code 834. 06:09:11 hehe sorry, yeah it's too hot to think on this end 06:09:32 What happens when a macro returns #'(define foo 1) ? 06:09:45 Will `foo' be accessible in the context that used that macro? 06:09:48 Will it? 06:09:49 Will it? 06:09:51 Will it? 06:09:52 Huh? 06:09:53 It's the same as saying (define foo 1) in your module. 06:09:54 Huh? 06:10:04 So it *will* be accessible? 06:10:09 It is! I done exactly that before o.o 06:10:10 Is that your answer? 06:10:14 Is it? 06:10:18 Is it? 06:10:25 Can I phone a friend x.x 06:10:59 rudybot: pick up the phone 06:11:00 eli: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 06:11:05 rudybot: eval (define-syntax-rule (foo) (define bleh 1)) 06:11:10 rudybot: eval (foo) 06:11:12 rudybot: eval bleh 06:11:13 eli: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: bleh in module: 'program 06:11:22 synx: So -- is it? 06:11:25 synx: So -- is it??? 06:11:45 I...thought it was? 06:11:54 It's hygienic. 06:12:04 The binding is not available outside of the macro. 06:12:15 It allows me to do this: 06:12:51 rudybot: eval (define-syntax-rule (foo x) (define tmp #f) (define x (syntax-case [() tmp] [(new) (set! tmp new)]))) 06:12:51 eli: error: eval:1:0: define-rule: too many templates at: ((define x (syntax-case (() tmp) ((new) (set! tmp new))))) in: (define-syntax-rule (foo x) (define tmp #f) (define x (syntax-case (() tmp) ((new) (set! tmp new))))) 06:13:01 rudybot: eval (define-syntax-rule (foo x) (begin (define tmp #f) (define x (syntax-case [() tmp] [(new) (set! tmp new)])))) 06:13:10 rudybot: eval (foo zzz) 06:13:10 eli: error: eval:1:84: _: literal is not an identifier in: (new) 06:13:23 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #scheme 06:13:30 *eli* slaps rudybot 06:14:34 I kind of get why I can't write my own require, because require introduces bindings, whereas a macro has to be hygenic and keep the bindings in the macro. 06:14:59 rudybot: eval (define-syntax-rule (foo x) (begin (define tmp #f) (define x (case-lambda [() tmp] [(new) (set! tmp new)])))) 06:15:11 rudybot: eval (foo zzz) 06:15:11 Macros are hygienic iff they are written hygienically. 06:15:14 rudybot: eval (foo zzzz) 06:15:18 rudybot: eval (zzz) 06:15:19 eli: ; Value: #f 06:15:22 rudybot: eval (zzz 123) 06:15:26 rudybot: eval (zzzz 987) 06:15:28 rudybot: eval (zzz 123) 06:15:33 rudybot: eval (zzz) 06:15:33 eli: ; Value: 123 06:15:35 rudybot: eval (zzzz) 06:15:36 eli: ; Value: 987 06:15:51 synx: So, both definitions use the "same" `tmp' binding. 06:16:03 But it's different, since each call to the macro gets its own context. 06:16:21 This is why making a macro that return (define foo 1) 06:16:30 doesn't make `foo' accessible in your code. 06:16:34 Got it so far? 06:17:14 I think so... 06:17:32 OK, so `require' is similar to a definition. 06:18:22 So the stuff that gets required is accessible to macro-generated code, but not code that uses the macro. 06:20:52 Right. 06:21:44 Chicken 4 does seem to define symbols if a macro returns a define. 06:21:51 (define-syntax Foo (syntax-rules () ((Foo) (define foo 1)))) 06:21:57 synx: So if you want to use it outside, you need to do the require unhygienically. 06:22:01 (Foo) 06:22:10 foo => 1 06:22:21 Should I file a bug? 06:22:25 jcowan: Yes. 06:22:52 Any name that is introduced by a (hygienic) macro should not be accessible outside. 06:23:09 offby1: ping 06:23:32 jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.235] has joined #scheme 06:24:00 However, (define-syntax Bar (syntax-rules () ((Bar) (begin (define foo 1) foo)))) behaves differently: 06:24:04 (Bar) => 1 06:24:09 bar is undefined 06:24:26 synx: BTW, I don't know where you are, but here it's not only hot, it's humid. Like a soup. 06:24:39 When I open the freezer it's like a scene from alien. 06:25:01 jcowan: Looks even more like a bug. 06:25:03 yea it was 104 here today 06:25:39 I wouldn't mind 40 degrees, if it was appropriately dry. 06:25:45 (I grew up in a desert.) 06:25:46 Well, in effect internal and external defines are treated differently: internal define merely binds (and is hygienic), but external define is not hygienic 06:26:04 jcowan: There's no internal definition there. 06:26:26 This use of `begin' should basically just splice the expressions into the context that called the macro. 06:26:43 offby1: ping 06:27:11 humidity doesn't bother me so much, but anything above 27 degrees is just too much for me. 06:28:29 About a week or two ago it was around 30C (85F) on friday and saturday. 06:28:42 On friday I felt like I'm suffocating. 06:28:57 On saturday I went out and felt like it was the best weather in a really long while. 06:29:06 The difference was only in the humidity. 06:32:41 I'm fine at 27, but yeah sitting around 30 at the moment... just too much x.x 06:33:11 My theory is I don't sweat very much, so don't benefit from dry weather. 06:33:54 *foof* just got back from Shanghai where it was 40 degrees and rain-forest humid 06:34:08 eli: Reported 06:34:16 *eli* throws up just thinking about it. 06:34:54 *synx* makes a note never to go to Shanghai in the summer. 06:35:24 *jcowan* makes a note never to go outside a/c areas in the summer. 06:38:15 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Success] 06:38:59 Can't afford A/C around here. 06:39:08 -!- jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.235] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:40:02 Those things cost hundreds of dollars you know! Eat electricity like a mother f*** 06:40:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZUPCB9533Y 06:43:54 eli: I once did some manual labor in the mid-day sun in Yakima, WA in 43C heat... 06:44:03 ...but the humidity was close to 0. 06:44:20 It felt great. I also went through 11 bottles of water that day. :-P 06:44:59 can't imagine how you people do that. I'd just spontaneously combust. 06:46:22 Mad dogs and Englishmen. 06:47:18 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05691C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 06:47:43 synx: It felt like I was standing in front of an oven: A pleasant kind of heat. 06:47:59 I'm from central Virginia, so non-humid heat was a novelty for me. 06:49:39 I don't enjoy standing in front of an oven. -_- 06:49:59 Also known as "slaving over a hot stove" <.< 06:55:07 Yucky weather is basically high-humidity weather 06:55:16 "bitter cold" means humid cold, for example. 06:55:28 -!- jedc [n=jed@c-98-232-225-102.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:56:51 TimMc: I can definitely see that. 06:57:33 In the army I was stationed for a while close to the dead sea in the summer, where it's around 40-45 every day. 06:57:52 At one point, as a joke, we sat in a room and turn the AC on full heat. 06:58:06 People who went into the room lost their breath after a few seconds. 06:58:10 It was amusing. 07:01:10 I like humid cold weather. Dry cold just chaps my lips and makes me cough. 07:01:38 There is that. 07:03:30 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-139.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:04:37 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:05:53 I'm neutral about humid hot weather. It is a little bit worse than dry heat maybe, but dry wood burns easier, and that's what being out in the baking California sun feels like to me. 07:06:07 I hate CA sun 07:06:15 WA isn't so bad 07:06:16 What I don't like about humidity is its tendency to keep the heat. Dry weather never stays at 30 degrees when it's pitch black out, but humid weather just goes and goes. 07:06:42 I love humid hot days, as long as I have AC at night. 07:07:35 right, something to break the constant high temperature. 07:07:55 I just like it cold to sleep 07:08:17 I'd totally use an A/C unit if I had one. 07:09:06 synx: where do you live? 07:09:08 Adamant++ 07:09:30 TimMc: we're both from the Dirty Souf, it was bound to be the case 07:09:35 In the winter I keep my bedroom cool so I can curl up under the quilt. 07:10:12 GET OUT OF MY HEAD.....TACOS 07:10:51 Somewhere around the Alpha Quadrant, I'd say. 07:14:12 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:14:16 ah, I forgot you were Toring 07:14:21 my bad 07:18:21 -!- Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:27:47 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:30:46 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-235.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:40:48 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:49:11 karlw` [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:49:21 -!- karlw [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:50:43 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 07:51:53 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 07:55:25 ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has joined #scheme 07:56:05 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:59:07 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 08:00:22 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:02:08 -!- papna [n=mike@97-91-168-194.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:02:08 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:02:08 -!- m811 [n=user@84-50-207-42-dsl.est.estpak.ee] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:02:08 -!- TimMc [n=timmc@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:02:08 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:02:09 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-72-87-212-60.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:02:09 -!- ToxicFrog [n=ToxicFro@69-196-190-92.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:02:09 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 08:02:42 papna [n=mike@97-91-168-194.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 08:02:42 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 08:02:42 m811 [n=user@84-50-207-42-dsl.est.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 08:02:42 TimMc [n=timmc@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 08:02:42 ToxicFrog [n=ToxicFro@69-196-190-92.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 08:02:42 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 08:02:42 kniu [n=kniu@pool-72-87-212-60.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 08:02:42 sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has joined #scheme 08:09:03 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 08:14:06 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 08:18:53 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.46.25] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:19:03 a-s [n=user@92.81.46.25] has joined #scheme 08:19:14 poe [n=poe@unaffiliated/xerox] has joined #scheme 08:20:17 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:21:12 -!- poe [n=poe@unaffiliated/xerox] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:23:25 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 08:41:04 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:45:16 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 08:54:43 -!- SchemerNate [i=nathan@lambda.caesium.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:56:06 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:56:42 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 09:00:14 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 09:02:43 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 09:04:37 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 09:04:47 karlw`` [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 09:06:57 thesnowdog_ [i=thesnowd@122.110.29.120] has joined #scheme 09:08:54 MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-8169.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #scheme 09:18:49 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@81-174-51-14.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #scheme 09:19:21 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:19:26 *eli* yawns 09:20:05 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:20:58 -!- karlw` [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:25:46 -!- thesnowdog [i=thesnowd@122.110.29.120] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:26:46 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:31:49 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 09:50:15 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:55:33 saccade__ [n=saccade@VPN-NINETY-THREE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 09:59:42 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:59:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_Languages:_Application_and_Interpretation needs some work 09:59:48 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/nuuvg3 10:03:40 -!- QinGW [n=wangqing@203.86.81.2] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:07:05 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 10:15:52 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade@VPN-NINETY-THREE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:18:27 masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has joined #scheme 10:22:35 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@81-174-51-14.dynamic.ngi.it] has quit [] 10:29:22 -!- tonyg [n=tonyg@host226.lshift.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:42:21 HG` [n=wells@xdslew004.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 11:20:43 metasyntax [n=metasynt@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 11:29:21 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-130-65.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:40:27 rocketman [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:54:39 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-235.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 11:57:51 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 12:04:52 -!- thesnowdog_ is now known as thesnowdog 12:05:08 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:06:54 mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has joined #scheme 12:12:51 `Peter [n=pk@188-23-1-18.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 12:17:02 reprore__ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:18:05 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [No route to host] 12:26:11 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.46.25] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:26:50 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:27:06 -!- reprore__ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:36:54 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 12:41:43 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:55:54 -!- MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-8169.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:59:21 MrBlueSky [n=MrBlueSk@c-24-129-82-57.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:02:15 -!- Elly [n=elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:02:26 Elly [n=elly@198-144-37-142.static.vdsl.nidhog.net] has joined #scheme 13:04:49 Madars [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has joined #scheme 13:07:40 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslew004.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:08:21 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-551c6046df03ab53] has quit ["Page closed"] 13:10:47 kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 13:11:56 soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 13:12:14 -!- rocketman [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:20:27 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 13:22:12 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 13:28:02 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:28:48 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 13:30:19 masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has joined #scheme 13:38:48 -!- karlw`` [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:38:51 karlw`` [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 13:43:27 HG` [n=wells@xdsleo113.osnanet.de] has joined #scheme 13:45:00 i have found the preferred way to be subscribed to the plt scheme email lists 13:46:27 my stupid mail client won't let me disable mail notifications on a per-folder basis. so instead, i subscribe to the lists so i can post, disable delivery on my subscriptions, and use gmane nntp to actually follow the lists 13:47:10 ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 13:47:53 are there any plans to implement light-weight processes ala Gambit into PLT Scheme? 13:52:48 ice_man`: As soon as they clean up MrEd? 13:53:17 -!- karlw`` [n=user@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:53:48 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 13:56:13 -!- Madars [n=null@unaffiliated/madars] has quit [] 13:57:44 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #scheme 13:57:59 karlw``: really? 13:58:45 *hkBst* adjusts ice_man` sarcometer 13:58:52 +'s 13:59:41 ahh...a joke...thanks for the clarification hkBst 14:00:00 neilv: I'm sort of shouting about this option in several ways. 14:00:21 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:00:24 neilv: And there's also the google groups interface, which is less convenient but more popular. 14:01:28 eli: are there any plans to implement light-weight processes into PLT scheme, like the ones in Gambit on which Termite is built? 14:01:29 ice_man`: PLT threads are already light-weight in the sense that they're not OS threads; but there *is* work on adding OS threads (if that's what you refer to as "light-weight processes"). 14:04:08 hkBst: MrEd is likely going to be rewriten -- a very big chunk (25K lines) has already moved from C++ to Scheme, but this is not a "clean up". And I don't see what needs to be cleaned up unless you (or karlw) talk about the actual Scheme code that implements it. (That is, that kind of cleanup is not going to change functionality at all.) 14:04:25 eli: really, i need to hope for a version of thunderbird that it just a little more flexible, because it is otherwise better to get it form email than from nntp 14:05:33 neilv: In that case, you can use gmail, and add a rule that puts a tag on these emails, and archives them. Then you can access it through imap, with no notifications, I think. 14:06:00 eli: I didn't mean to suggest I have any opinion on whether MrEd needs cleaning up or not. 14:06:10 i don't want to use gmail. google already owns me enough 14:06:37 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 14:06:51 gambit lets you run a gazillion threads 14:07:20 eli: What I am really looking for is a scheme-based alternative to erlang, that is not termite 14:07:21 -!- dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:07:32 i do all my work in plt right now, but there is a good chance that some day i will need gambit threads or sisc jvm support 14:07:45 ice_man`: why not termite? 14:08:12 I like PLT, I do all my scheming in there, and it would be nice to keep it all unified 14:09:11 neilv: Then even better -- use gmail *only* for the plt subscription, and look at it as exploiting them for your own convenient mirror of the list. 14:09:14 ice_man`: not termite is not quite the same as PLT 14:09:48 hkBst: I probably should have been more specific, thanks for pointing that out 14:10:12 eli: i could do that as an alternative to the gmane part. i'd still want my one email address subscribed to the list so that my posts appear under it 14:10:13 As for threads, on a 4gb machine yout could probably run somewhere in the neighborhood of 20000 threads in PLT. 14:10:46 eli: has anyone tested that thread performance for plt? it's not just memory overhead, of course 14:11:09 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:11:24 neilv: Obviously -- and that's exactly the point of that no-mail option. Subscribe any emails that you might want to post with, and leave only one with delivery. 14:11:40 http://theschemeway.blogspot.com/2007/03/erlang-or-gambit-ctermite-practitioners.html 14:11:42 -rudybot_:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/ln56sz 14:11:42 eli: that's pretty sweet...but boy, if that number was 1000000 PLT would be dominate, if it doesn't already 14:12:21 Re threads -- I've never seen anyone measuring it, and I've never used any of these super-light-thread systems so I don't know about it. 14:12:41 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:13:23 Foofie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 14:13:59 socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-0-147.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #scheme 14:14:06 ice_man`: Well, there are several features in plt that raise the per-thread memory footprint -- parameters, for example are thread-specific, and more generally, continuation marks (information that you sort of put on the stack) is also thread-specific since threads have their own continuations. 14:14:55 eli: thanks for the info 14:16:06 eli: does every parameter have a per-thread allocation by default, or is it done in a kind of copy-on-write way, so that i can have 10,000 threads, and 9,999 don't need a separate allocation for parameter current-foo if current-foo hasn't changed in that thread? 14:16:14 bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:18:42 neilv: Well, the worst is one pointer per parameter, if the values are not changed. 14:18:58 that's fine 14:19:07 neilv: But I don't know if there's some mechanism that avoids allocating those pointers. 14:19:27 (And that worst case is a result of the usual Scheme thing.) 14:25:51 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 14:26:10 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot 14:26:20 rudybot: uptime 14:26:20 *offby1: I've been up for five weeks, three days; this tcp/ip connection has been up for five hours, twenty-one minutes 14:29:44 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:29:54 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 14:34:35 MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-1107.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #scheme 14:39:50 RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-1504.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #scheme 14:48:22 FunkyDrummer [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-1504.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #scheme 14:48:58 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has joined #scheme 14:51:18 Anybody know of any online AI based scheme tutorials? 14:52:30 About neural nets or something? I'm not really looking for anything specific, as long as it's AI related. 14:55:36 does anyone have a job for me? 14:57:18 -!- MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-1107.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit [Success] 15:03:04 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 15:04:56 *leppie* is about to walk out on his... 15:05:37 the incredible "#scheme paint never dries: the movie" is out now: http://smsw.rootnode.net/scheme/socnet/ (i suppose i should do weekly instalments if at all) 15:05:57 leppie: Do you babysit toddlers? 15:06:09 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 15:06:11 no, but my GF does :) 15:06:11 -!- RageOfThou [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-1504.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:06:17 she is looking for a job too :) 15:06:31 leppie: Do you clean basements from cat ... byproducts? 15:08:06 yes, I have 6 cats, they shit everywhere 15:08:13 some puke too 15:08:27 in my spare time I write some Scheme too 15:08:34 Ah, puke is a nice bonus. 15:08:39 You're hired. 15:09:02 :) 15:09:45 I'm just tired to be the shit expert of the house. 15:09:46 puke/hair balls are easier, its harder, like dog poop 15:10:05 I'm dealing with shit in *many* forms. 15:10:11 my friggen cats crap on my lawn, it's terrible :( 15:10:46 it looks like a golfing tee , with all the spots of sand covering cleaned up land mines 15:10:52 I could probably say that I work as a schemers, and I dabble in shitology as a hobby. 15:11:06 lol eli :) 15:11:13 We have one of those litter robot things, 15:11:15 you have many animals? 15:11:24 really expensive (IIRC, about $350). 15:11:26 litter robots? now I am interested 15:11:46 http://www.litter-robot.com/ 15:11:51 cool 15:12:01 It's really impressive in how effective it can be. 15:12:20 But one of our cats just won't go in it. 15:12:32 lol, i doubt most of mine would 15:12:33 Hence the shit+piss infected basement. 15:12:48 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:13:14 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 15:13:15 Shit is actually the pleasant part... It's a dry lump that is easy to just pick up -- it's the pissing that is absolutely horrible. 15:13:27 eli: my basement rug is, at this very moment, airing out on the back porch before we send it to the cleaners :-| 15:13:46 i dont have the piss problem, but one of mine sprays, even though he has no balls 15:14:45 jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has joined #scheme 15:14:46 "Cats Who Pee Indoors, And The Schemers Who Love Them" 15:16:46 offby1: Well, since the victory of the toddlers as the undeniable master of the house, I'm really getting close to just letting them "live a free life". 15:17:22 The average number of times per day that I need to deal with cat and human by-products is getting to annoying levels. 15:17:45 leppie: And ... do you use the spraying one to get high? 15:18:11 *offby1* backs away slowly 15:18:59 In case you didn't see the southpart episode... It was very impressive. 15:19:07 s/part/park/ 15:20:05 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:20:52 lol eli, I just watched that episode the other night :) 15:20:56 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:21:04 southparkstudios rocks :) 15:21:41 eli: how many cats you have? 15:21:54 Keyframe2 [n=Keyframe@78-1-143-74.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 15:25:15 leppie: Only two. 15:25:34 ok 50% is rather low hit rate at $350 15:25:42 But I know someone with 20-something. So on average I have more cats than you. 15:26:02 lol, we had 14 at one stage 15:26:18 but we were just 'babysitting' kittens 15:27:24 our 7th one, left, he lives down the street now, we see him ever 3 or so weeks, looks healthy, but we asked around, and no-one seems to be caring for him, so maybe he is just happy living out on his own 15:27:52 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:28:32 Cats do that... 15:28:57 Of course our cats were (strictly indoors and) trying to escape constantly. 15:29:26 Now we just leave the door open and beg them to go outside and shit some there. 15:29:27 we saw him down the street (about 100m) on sunday, and havent seen him in like 6 weeks, and we just called him, and he came running 15:29:42 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:31:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGTLGpAC5ho 15:31:15 one of the morons 15:32:27 What followed was probably more amusing. 15:32:41 my GF caught it 15:33:01 Some "what? that was an *intentional* practice in how to fall without hurting myself" reaction. 15:33:14 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out] 15:33:47 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [] 15:33:52 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:33:52 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:42:20 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-235.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:46:25 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:46:31 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:52:03 -!- Foofie is now known as Fufie 15:52:50 -!- proq` is now known as proq 15:53:19 -!- FunkyDrummer [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-1504.sa.bih.net.ba] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:53:27 back when i had a scoring newsreader, i would give penalties to articles cross-posted to both c.l.l and c.l.s. i think it's time to approximate that in thunderbird 15:55:54 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:56:01 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:59:54 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:03:35 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:04:10 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:09:49 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw598092.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 16:19:19 -!- chylli [n=lchangyi@119.181.15.104] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:25:30 doublefree [n=doublefr@rrcs-72-43-11-34.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:33:52 ponzao___ [n=vesam@a243-120.24online.fi] has joined #scheme 16:36:10 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:46:57 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-9c851912d7995b16] has joined #scheme 16:52:49 -!- vandemar [i=cohen@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:52:50 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:52:52 vandemar [i=holy@2001:470:1f10:56b:0:0:0:4] has joined #scheme 16:52:53 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 16:54:58 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@mo-rsmitha21.op.umist.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 17:04:00 -!- `Peter [n=pk@188-23-1-18.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:05:38 -!- Keyframe2 [n=Keyframe@78-1-143-74.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!"] 17:06:03 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:10:37 dzhus [n=sphinx@93-81-189-107.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 17:12:27 -!- MrBlueSky [n=MrBlueSk@c-24-129-82-57.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #scheme 17:20:23 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:31:18 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:31:54 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:35:36 -!- jchen [n=jchen@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:37:59 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 17:38:18 mmc [n=mima@cs162149.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 17:40:34 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:41:06 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdsleo113.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:44:51 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:53:24 `Peter [n=pk@188-23-108-44.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 17:56:57 `Peter_ [n=pk@188-23-2-26.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #scheme 18:07:25 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:12:06 -!- `Peter [n=pk@188-23-108-44.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:13:45 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:20:14 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has quit [] 18:20:55 BW^- [n=Miranda@89.123.93.69] has joined #scheme 18:21:05 anyone with experiences of bigloo's I/O and threads model here? 18:24:18 BW^-: indirectly through my advisor; who used them, apparently, to ship some highly praised products to at&t 18:24:42 yay. 18:24:55 klutometis: how do they work conceptually? 18:25:17 when you read from a TCP connection in Bigloo, does the entire Bigloo process typically block? 18:25:33 incubot: it turns out that heh is the new lol; "heh" signifies: i'm so ennuyeux, i barely have the energy to laugh at loud 18:25:36 oops, I just said that out loud. 18:25:37 BW^-: yes, iirc 18:25:57 ok. 18:26:02 what is its threading model really? 18:26:30 as far as i have gotten it, it has a cooperative multithreader (i.e. not preemptive, i.e. you need to do invoke it to make thread switches manually), and pthreads (=OS threads) support. 18:26:32 is this correct? 18:26:46 BW^-: good question; i'll ask him when i see him later 18:26:56 super! approx when will this be? 18:29:05 BW^-: next six hours or so; otherwise friday 18:29:08 i'll let you know 18:30:58 klutometis: privmsg. 18:33:09 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 18:33:43 thx 18:39:21 -!- copumpkin [n=pumpkin@c-24-63-67-154.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:42:05 a-s [n=user@92.81.46.25] has joined #scheme 18:45:51 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@mo-rsmitha21.op.umist.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:52:43 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 18:54:34 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has joined #scheme 18:55:55 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:56:18 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme 19:00:18 ice_man`` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 19:01:16 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-230-208.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 19:01:27 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 19:03:19 So, it appears that my sendmail server is negotiating with my mail client using a short (512 or 768-bit) DHE key length. I've been searching around, but I can't seem to figure out how to control the DHE key length that is used in the TLS negotiations of Sendmail. Help? 19:03:37 Whoops, wrong channel. 19:03:40 *arcfide* grins sheepishly. 19:13:54 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 19:17:10 Does anybody know the name of that syntax where you take an expression, a binary comparer, and a list of test, result pairs, that turns it into sort of a cond without having to write (equal? expr test) around every test? 19:17:14 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:58 synx, well it's a bit like CASE except I don't think that exists 19:17:59 It's like case, but it evaluates the test expression instead of just using it as a list of data 19:18:08 at least if it does it isn't R5RS 19:18:21 I could whip it up pretty easy, just wanted to see if there existed an extension or something. 19:18:23 maybe it is -- and I just don't know it 19:18:31 Thought I saw someone using it before... 19:18:35 well I don't know anything about extensions 19:18:56 synx: There is probably something like that in the testing frameworks. 19:19:01 incubot: meh is melted heh 19:19:04 Mmmmmm-MMMMMM!! A plate of STEAMING PIECES of a PIG mixed with the shreds of SEVERAL CHICKENS!! ... Oh BOY!! I'm about to swallow a TORN-OFF section of a COW'S LEFT LEG soaked in COTTONSEED OIL and SUGAR!! ... Let's see ... Next, I'll have the GROUND-UP flesh of CUTE, BABY LAMBS fried in the MELTED, FATTY TISSUES from a warm-blooded animal someone once PETTED!! ... YUM!! That was GOOD!! For DESSERT, I'll have a TOFU BURGER with BEAN SPROU 19:20:00 ??? 19:21:36 arcfide: Possibly related to... (let's see if this works) 19:21:39 incubot: dodge 19:21:42 Now, my ENTIRE LIFE is flashing before my EYES as I park my DODGE 19:22:41 synx: You mean something like http://chicken.wiki.br/eggref/3/generalised-case ? 19:23:58 incubot: stanwyck 19:24:01 I found a COMPILER BUG in BARBARA STANWYCK! 19:24:33 incubot: Now see here! 19:24:36 man, everyone around here can vanish except me 19:24:47 :-D 19:26:02 klutometis: Where did incubot manage to pick up a mad libs module? :-P 19:26:26 TimMc: sarahbot 19:26:45 Curious. 19:27:14 klutometis: un-ping! 19:28:28 Wtf is this json? 19:29:12 yeah mario-goulart exactly like that 19:32:02 incubot: You murdered sarahbot and stole her insides? 19:32:05 stole me nick? 19:32:18 incubot: they stole me booty! 19:32:21 It stole the letter? I'll have to search it. To the bottom. 19:33:33 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 19:44:31 -!- ToxicFrog [n=ToxicFro@69-196-190-92.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:47:21 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has quit [] 19:52:36 So what do you do if the code is shorter than the license agreement, and you modify it so much it doesn't resemble what you were originally working with? 19:54:15 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has joined #scheme 19:56:45 -!- masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:58:32 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 20:01:59 synx: Then your code is merely "inspired" by the original? 20:02:25 How many LoC are the same? 20:03:37 I just kind of balk at big licenses on little code. Don't really have a good grasp on ownership of ideas in general. 20:05:00 TimMc: It's more like I was all "OK I agree with that. I disagree with that, I'll change it. I don't need that, tossing it out. I can extend that. Oops, that's out of order, fixed." 20:05:05 synx: Are you modifying generalised-case? 20:05:39 I could change all the variable names and then pretend my code was "inspired" not simply modified from the original. 20:05:57 The code's mine. Feel free to use it as you please 20:06:06 I should have made it public domain in the first place :) 20:06:22 yeah, but I was thinking in general. 20:06:23 BSD is just my standard go-to license 20:06:31 You're right 20:06:40 I tend to lean towards the WTFPL, or a Creative Commons license if it's important. 20:07:06 To each his own 20:07:17 You can treat the generalised-case as public domain 20:07:41 If I still used the egg I'd relicense it, but I can't be bothered :) 20:08:20 I GPL my code by default, but almost always grant exclusions if people request it. 20:08:41 Yeah, it's always a good idea to check with the original author(s) 20:11:44 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has quit [] 20:13:28 That's true enough. Just out of courtesy. 20:14:04 Anyway https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/case-star.ss is what I'm thinking best fits my most common uses. 20:14:43 Don't really need one result for multiple tests usually, and often just use equal? instead of bothering to pick a comparator. 20:17:00 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has joined #scheme 20:17:06 what's the best date/time management library for Scheme? 20:17:19 there's an SRFI to do some of those things, but it just doesn't do everything that Java's Calendar and Date classes do! 20:17:25 synx: It could be me, but I think you can get rid of the pair of parens around the clauses list 20:17:43 i want to be able to add or substract a number of seconds, minutes, days, weeks, etc. 20:18:02 i want it to do proper handling of timezones, and have accessors for each field 20:18:11 synx: hm, maybe not... 20:18:15 any idea? 20:18:18 sjamaan: Not really, no. If I do, it confuses the first clause with the optional comparator argument. 20:18:25 additionally, is there any scheme impl that is bundled with that? 20:18:36 BW^-: Most schemes have srfi-19 20:18:57 oh, I see you already mentioned that 20:18:59 sorry for the noise 20:19:01 Though it might work if I matched for the clause before the comparator... 20:19:29 if it doesn't exist, it would be a nice vocation for a schemer to create 20:19:55 to the best of my current knowledge, this is the biggest hole in Scheme's library support - a decent date/time handling library 20:20:03 synx: You could also add a literal to distinguish between "predicate supplied" and "predicate not supplied" 20:20:33 (case* foo (with-predicate eq?) (...)) 20:20:36 Or make two macros 20:20:51 Aha, got it! 20:21:22 BW^-: It's crossed my mind a few times, but never got around to it. Haven't really needed it yet either 20:21:31 No I just match for (?arg ?expr ...) in an earlier case then when I match for ?eq?. It can tell what's ?eq? and what's not then. 20:21:43 perhaps just porting Java's Calendar and Date classes to Scheme would do it. 20:21:45 I think srfi-19 has everything strictly necessary, but it's not very convenient 20:21:53 Oh, but then it wouldn't take any expression for ?eq?... 20:21:57 ugh, Java is a bad match for Scheme, I think 20:22:09 just wrap the message-passing style to a first argument and you have it. 20:22:15 umm yeah, probably it's a bad match. 20:22:24 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-72-87-212-60.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:31 but at least write the corresponding functionality it has in this respect 20:22:38 aye 20:22:55 java is a bad match for pretty much anything that isn't java. 20:23:30 mm. 20:23:35 kniu [n=kniu@pool-72-87-212-60.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:23:37 It's a good match for C# or OO-based PHP 20:23:38 java is essentially an object-oriented basic with c syntax. 20:23:41 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-230-208.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 20:23:54 BW^-: heh, that's a nice quote :) 20:24:34 java is a virtual machine. It doesn't even acknowledge the existence of anything outside itself. Trying to be maximum portable I think. 20:24:49 OO-based PHP should be written as O_O PHP. 20:25:02 If your algorithm works the same way in every environment, then it's more useful. That seems to be the java philosophy, above performance or even accuracy. 20:25:12 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-230-208.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:14 Just like the facial expression. 20:25:15 mario-goulart: LOL! 20:27:29 I dunno, mixing languages is hard no matter how you cut it. 20:27:43 java, python, scheme, even plt versus chicken or MIT. 20:28:22 mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:28:36 translation is just such an expensive operation. 20:28:44 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has quit [] 20:31:47 luz [n=davids@189.122.90.116] has joined #scheme 20:34:15 synx: Nonsense! http://jsext.sourceforge.net/Including%20C%20functions.html 20:36:01 Horrifying, yet seductive. 20:36:11 I didn't say complicated, but very expensive. 20:36:20 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:36:49 Calling one C function from another C function is much faster than calling it from any flexible FFI. 20:37:03 Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B551D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:37:25 And it gets worse when the languages themselves get more complex. There's no way to "call" a java "function" even if you have the bytecode. 20:37:55 Best general solution you could do is make a java program that communicates over a socket using sexps. sloooooow 20:40:12 When you said "mixing languages is hard", I thought you meant for the client code that has to use the FFI. (Because that's generally true as well...) 20:40:40 I've always wondered how the conflicting typesystems work out with FFIs. Never really looked into it. 20:42:57 using sexps is slow? 20:43:50 soupdragon: compared to what? 20:45:58 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-230-208.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 20:47:00 -!- BW^- [n=Miranda@89.123.93.69] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 20:47:41 soupdragon: (de)serialization is slow. -.- 20:49:38 for instance, gcrypt has really good s-expression support. But I still have to convert my list into a bytes representation, then make a copy of those bytes in a non-garbage-collected area, then gcrypt has to parse the bytes out into its own s-expr format. It's easy to do, but many expensive operations. 20:49:50 Deciding where to compromise is what I consider hard. 20:53:00 OK by "good" I really wish they would provide a "cons" so not very good... 20:54:19 incubot: yow! 20:57:42 aha, sneaking in the include file they do have cons :3 21:00:18 masm [n=masm@213.22.191.93] has joined #scheme 21:06:14 dita [n=dita@85.254.211.160] has joined #scheme 21:09:55 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-227-235.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 21:11:01 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50809F19.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 21:13:09 Hello! I'm sure this has been asked many times before, but I didn't find the answer on the wiki. Which Scheme environment would you recommend for going throught the SICP? I know some basics of emacs, have tried MIT/GNU Scheme and PLT Scheme. 21:14:17 I'm looking specifically for recommendations on environments, not that much on particular Scheme implementations. PLT seems ok, but feels a little sluggish. MIT/GNU Scheme has been hard to tame. 21:15:00 dita: have you tried emacs with any scheme implementation? 21:16:48 I've tried emacs + quack + mzscheme, it seems that I lacked emacs-fu, because switching between the buffers to try out my code and lack of debugging support (or my inability to turn it on :)), was holding me back. Should I invest more time on this combination? 21:17:26 dita: I guess so. Maybe try the emacs refcard. 21:18:21 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #scheme 21:18:35 mario-goulart: hmm, I even have one printed somewhere around. must take a look. may I ask, what are you using for scheme development? 21:18:37 dita: take into account that this is my personal opinion. 21:19:00 dita: emacs + chicken 21:19:34 mario-goulart: and vanilla scheme-mode, I guess? 21:20:17 I want a decent friggin' GUI for Scheme. 21:20:39 dita: I use quack mode, but I don't even know why. :-) I use the emacs bare bones actually. Paren matching and that's it. 21:20:54 DrScheme is a good start. 21:22:24 Mr_Cat_ [i=5f1f0439@gateway/web/freenode/x-119e65a369bbc4d6] has joined #scheme 21:22:45 Morphism, monad, haskell 21:24:04 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-212-202.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 21:26:42 I don't want a GUI, but being able to find where any given binding is defined would be really useful, and also something to open up the file where an error occurred from the stack trace. And parentheses matching, yeah. 21:27:34 -!- mario-goulart [n=user@201-40-162-47.cable.viacabocom.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:29:13 Also a tutorial on reconstructing syntaxes would be nice... I can't figure out how to get the debugger to only highlight the part of the syntax that went wrong :( 21:29:50 -!- ice_man`` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:31:07 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50809F19.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 21:31:13 syntax-e can pull apart the syntaxes with location intact, but I couldn't tell you how to combine those into a single syntax again. 21:32:34 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 21:35:45 datum->syntax ? 21:35:56 or with-syntax maybe 21:37:20 -!- doublefree [n=doublefr@rrcs-72-43-11-34.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:38:00 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:39:00 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:39:13 OH 21:39:35 datum->syntax will take syntax inlined inside the data. 21:39:42 I didn't know that <.< 21:40:36 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/syntax-inline.ss 21:43:11 dita, if you have specific questions about `how to tame' MIT Scheme, you are welcome to ask them. 21:46:02 q[mrw] [n=russd@willers.employees.org] has joined #scheme 21:49:58 chupush [n=951c03d5@baconfile.com] has joined #scheme 21:50:44 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:52:21 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 21:52:22 dzhus89 [n=sphinx@93-81-189-107.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 21:52:35 -!- dzhus89 [n=sphinx@93-81-189-107.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:53:39 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05691C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:53:57 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@93-81-189-107.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:58:22 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:01:54 if you have nonspecific questions about how to tame MIT scheme, you are welcome to ask them too. 22:06:17 I have a dumb question: is there something akin to ido-mode for edwin? 22:08:44 i don't think many people are using mit scheme. mainly just people who think that other people are using it 22:09:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/84351 22:10:06 Not sure how to do that exactly... I want it to expand into many name/type pairs, then expand into many groups each with a prefix. 22:10:36 I just found http://sicp.ai.mit.edu/Spring-2005/manuals/dontpanicnew.html and debugging got easier for a moment 22:11:23 -!- Mr_Cat_ [i=5f1f0439@gateway/web/freenode/x-119e65a369bbc4d6] has quit ["Page closed"] 22:11:34 dita: sure you don't want to use drscheme instead: http://www.neilvandyke.org/sicp-plt/ 22:12:19 Meh, actually it's probably something totally easy using syntax-rules I'll try that. 22:13:02 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:13:10 w00t, worked! 22:13:16 synx: if i guess correctly what you want to do, it's pretty easy in syntax-rules 22:13:40 jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.235] has joined #scheme 22:13:53 It is, I was just being stupid and trying to limit myself to define-syntax-rule 22:13:54 -!- kib2 [n=kib@bd137-1-82-228-159-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:14:16 my syntax-fu is increasing/worsening every day 22:15:51 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:17:28 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-50-230-208.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:18:23 Okay, so what's a good name for a LET or WITH-SYNTAX like syntax which binds values obtained via foreign code, and whose body expressions are spliced in; that is, it generates no new scope? 22:18:37 with-ffi-values? 22:18:53 let-ffi? 22:19:02 with-foreign-values? 22:19:20 with-values-from-ffi ^_^ 22:19:47 chupush: Do you prefer the WITH prefix? Is that sufficient to indicate that it doesn't create a new scope? 22:19:58 I mean, that it splices the body in? 22:20:22 yes, I would prefer "with", as I ususally use let with lambda forms 22:20:25 *chupush* shrugs 22:22:34 let- syntaxes generally introduce new bindings as part of the syntax, whereas with- syntaxes don't introduce bindings persay, but may take a procedure that accepts those bindings as arguments. Depends on how you design it I suppose. 22:23:17 (let-something ((a b) (c d)) ...) vs (with-something b d (lambda (a c) ...)) 22:23:31 ...just my opinion 22:23:38 I'm thinking of WITH-SYNTAX. 22:24:08 yep, I agree with synx 22:25:11 i say "let" when user names the bindings, "with" when there is a body with no bindings, and "call-with" when user provides a closure that is called with values 22:27:56 so pick a sensible WITH- & run :) 22:28:13 yeah I was conflating "with-" and "call-with-". At least in plt, with only sets up contextual parameters, and doesn't pass any arguments. 22:28:25 mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has joined #scheme 22:28:29 I don't like to think about with-syntax. x.x 22:30:03 jao [n=jao@21.Red-83-43-33.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:31:30 -!- jengle [n=jengle@64.252.88.235] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:32:27 you could avoid all those prefixes, and use something like "in-a-manner-of-speaking" 22:32:28 Well, it would look something like (FOREIGN-LET (headers ...) ([name ...] [name2 ...] ...) body ...). 22:33:23 FOREIGN-WINK-WINK-SAY-NO-MORE 22:33:44 why doesn't it introduce new scope? 22:33:45 But the body would be spliced, and the name name2 ... would really be syntax, expanded into values or constants, and not something that would sit around. 22:34:33 p1dzkl: I don't want it to. The purpose for this is to make it convenient to define a number of constants that are obtained by foreign functions to be used in definitions or the like, so that the foreign code need not exist at run time. 22:35:09 how about define-foreign-values then 22:35:11 I expect the BODY ... to contain mostly definitions or definition-like expressions. 22:35:30 hmmm 22:35:36 p1dzkl: Actually... 22:35:42 Maybe that would make more sense... 22:35:44 *arcfide* thinks. 22:37:21 Aaah, I think I just might do that. 22:37:27 Wait... 22:37:29 Hrm... 22:37:39 Yes. 22:39:26 -!- mfredrickson [n=mfredric@98.212.171.158] has quit [] 22:40:14 flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50809F19.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 22:46:47 rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-124-58.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #scheme 22:49:19 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:50:43 -!- chupush [n=951c03d5@baconfile.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:50:55 arcfide: BTW -- http://barzilay.org/misc/scribble-reader.pdf 22:54:09 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:56:04 -!- dita [n=dita@85.254.211.160] has quit [] 22:58:14 MrFahrenheit [i=RageOfTh@SE400.PPPoE-5440.sa.bih.net.ba] has joined #scheme 23:01:47 -!- bweaver [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:14:36 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [] 23:20:13 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs162149.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:20:59 -!- wastrel [n=wastrel@nylug/member/wastrel] has quit ["l8r"] 23:35:04 So, I just took a look at some old code of mine. What's the idiomatic method of quoting values when they are returned from syntax? That is, I don't want raw symbol errors when I evaluate syntax. 23:36:01 *Riastradh* blinks. 23:36:06 (define-syntax blah (identifier-syntax 'a)) works, but what is the means by which this is done? (define-syntax blah (lambda (x) (syntax-case x () [id (identifer? 'id) 'a]))) obviously won't work. 23:37:01 Did you mean to write SYNTAX where you wrote QUOTE? 23:37:12 constants are almost never provided by foreign functions arcfide. They usually require /you/ to provide the constant, only accessible by #including its header file using cpp. What are you using where the function produces the constants? 23:37:13 Riastradh: Where? 23:37:49 In the several places you wrote QUOTE, arcfide. 23:38:16 synx: Constants are provided by including files in C, yes, but...in an FFI which does not have a built in means of accessing C constants, like Chicken does, it is necessary to build a stub file that returns these constants from functions. 23:39:48 Riastradh: Say I want to create a 'define-constant' syntax that allows me to do something like this: (define-constant a 'a) (let ([b a]) ...) => (let ([b 'a]) ...). 23:39:55 I just manually parse the constants out of the include file and generate scheme code to define each. 23:40:00 s/'a// 23:40:01 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 23:40:39 synx: Yeah, I am trying to generate the C code automatically and avoid parsing any include files. 23:40:45 Well, not manually, at least. 23:40:52 I think beyond what 'define' itself does, you can't really make a syntax like that... 23:41:03 Make C code that produces the scheme code :3 23:41:06 synx: Yes, you can. 23:41:10 synx: Eherm. 23:41:22 synx: For a first attempt, see the specialize ffi enumeration code that I wrote. 23:41:45 -!- flaschenwein [n=olaf_rog@p50809F19.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #scheme 23:42:02 Even with C code though, since you can't list the constants, you have to manually declare each stub. With your own parser you can list all the constants and their values and no need to manually specify each constant. 23:42:12 synx: http://paste.lisp.org/display/83493 23:42:49 augh syntax producing syntax x.x 23:42:56 synx: The above is broken, but not so much that it doesn't work on one specific system. It's too specialized, though. 23:43:19 Okay. 23:43:51 synx: I'm generalizing it so that I can do more than just create Enumerations. I want to be able to have a lower-level basic syntax that I can use to build things like what's in that library. 23:44:21 Too hot to really think now, maybe I'll look at it later. 23:44:29 Khisanth_ [n=khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:44:42 Riastradh: Do you see what I'm getting at? 23:44:48 like December 23:44:49 -!- Khisanth_ [n=khisanth@pool-68-237-101-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:45:56 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 23:46:08 synx: Oh, come on, take the plunge. 23:46:44 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-124-58.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:52:52 -!- ray [i=ray@drong.notacat.org] has quit ["Reconnecting"] 23:52:54 ray_ [i=ray@drong.notacat.org] has joined #scheme 23:53:13 -!- `Peter_ [n=pk@188-23-2-26.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [] 23:53:20 -!- ray_ is now known as ray 23:53:22 Aha. 23:55:51 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 23:55:56 -!- snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:56:17 snurble [n=snurble@s83-191-238-2.cust.tele2.se] has joined #scheme