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00:18:45 <haesbaert> hi, where can I find a good book/paper about functional programming principles ?
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00:23:11 <gnomon> haesbaert, that is a very, very broad question.  Can you narrow it down just a little?
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01:37:52 <foof> gnomon: Where can he find a good book about functional programming principles?
01:41:22 *gnomon* slaps foof upsaid the haid
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02:04:27 <offby1> Where can he find a good book about functional programming?
02:06:24 <offby1> wait, that made it more broad, not less
02:06:24 <offby1> Where can he find a good book about doughnut development via functional programming?
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03:32:48 <arcfide> For unix/local sockets, is it more appropriate to call them 'local' or 'unix'?
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03:35:25 <Riastradh> POSIX calls them Unix sockets.
03:39:16 <Riastradh> `Unix' strikes me as the preferable name, without any particular reason to prefer one over the other.
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04:49:44 <elderK> Heya Riastradh
04:49:58 <elderK> I was wondering if you knew of any decent articles regarding implementation of a scheme interpreter?
04:50:09 <elderK> :P preferably in a language other than Scheme.
04:50:09 <elderK> :P
04:53:00 <gnomon> Why an interpreter?
04:53:51 <elderK> because its a stepping stone type thing.
04:53:59 <elderK> learn to build an interpreter, a decentish one.
04:54:04 <elderK> then learn how to write a compiler.
04:54:39 khisanth_ [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-237-196.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme
04:54:57 <elderK> in any case, because it would be interesting
04:55:15 <leppie> write a Scheme for the LLVM
04:56:35 <elderK> :P I'm just askign if there are any good articles about interpreter construction or even compiler construction, centered mostly around scheme or lisp :P
04:58:25 <gnomon> elderK, you could start over at http://library.readscheme.org !
05:00:39 <elderK> aye.
05:00:51 <elderK> but I am looking for more information,too.
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05:05:48 <elderK> In any case, it'd be neat if I could bounce ideas off someone.
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05:22:16 <elderK> leppie: LLVM i sinteresting though, reading about it now.
05:22:16 <elderK> :)
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05:40:00 <pbusser2> elderK: Lisp in Small Pieces is a good book about the innards of Lisp languages in general.
05:40:31 <elderK> thanks pbusser2.
05:40:39 <pbusser2> elderK: LLVM is very big.
05:40:57 <elderK> Aye, but reading about it generally is still fun :)
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05:41:06 <pbusser2> elderK: Oh sure.
05:41:45 <elderK> As for LiSP, I'm just looking for .djvu reader :P
05:41:46 <elderK> ^_^
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05:47:27 <elderK> woah, LiSP is awesome.
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06:33:23 <pbusser2> elderK: It's also 15 years old. :-)
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06:37:54 <elderK> Well, I figure pbusser2, that I should be able to get a pretty strong handle on interpretation from LiSP, even if it is so old.
06:38:05 <elderK> At least, learn enough to propel myself into other texts.
06:38:05 <elderK> :)
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06:38:23 <elderK> like,
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06:38:28 <elderK> everyone started from somewhere :)
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06:59:49 <leppie|work> I got LiSP too, but I find it slow to read, maybe cause I waited for 4 months for the book to be delivered :|
07:02:37 <elderK> hehehe
07:02:40 <elderK> I wish I had hardcopy
07:02:47 <elderK> I'm reading the scanned version, as .djvu
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07:16:23 <elderK> leppie|work: anything you really disliked about LiSP?
07:16:31 <elderK> It seems to be solidish,
07:16:49 <elderK> The only thing I dislike I guess, is that everythign is implemented in lisp.
07:16:59 <elderK> but, the principles are language independent.
07:17:11 <elderK> at least, for the interpreter's implementation.
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07:29:48 <leppie|work> LiSP is about scheme :p
07:31:24 <cky> Should be renamed to SiSP then. :-P
07:31:51 <elderK> :P It implements Scheme in scheme :P
07:31:57 <elderK> becuase apparently, lisp would be too big :P
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07:39:10 *sladegen* settles on ShiShP...
07:44:12 <elderK> heheheh
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09:12:08 <pbusser2> leppie|work: Where do you live that it takes such a long time to deliver a book?
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09:17:11 <leppie|work> south africa, but it was the publishers that screwed up, the book went around the world twice, then landed up back at the publishers...
09:17:53 <pbusser2> Ah ok.
09:18:41 <pbusser2> leppie|work: Do you speak Afrikaans?
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10:00:54 <leppie|work> pbusser2: yeah I do, my home langauge, but I speak english mostly, and my GF only speaks english, so not so much, unless I am talking to myself, almost like now  ;p
10:03:48 <hkBst> leppie|work: why do some people not speak Afrikaans?
10:04:49 <leppie|work> they are full of shit  :p
10:05:19 <leppie|work> they do understand it perfectly well though
10:05:28 <leppie|work> just cant be bothered to speak it
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10:07:59 <hkBst> isn't it the official language?
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10:16:51 <leppie|work> we have 12 official languages :p
10:17:23 <leppie|work> and they are all different, i speak 2, rest are greek to me
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10:19:32 <elderK> Anyone keen to join me in a random discussion about interpretery ideas?
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10:24:20 <alaricsp> Where I not overworked today, elderK, I'd take you up on that ;-)
10:24:35 <alaricsp> But, I have to fix a shell script. SOB.
10:25:03 <elderK> :( Gutted.
10:25:12 <elderK> :) Goodluck with it man,.
10:25:13 <elderK> ;)
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10:27:02 *alaricsp* pokes his eyes out
10:27:38 *elderK* hears someone in the distance scream
10:27:45 *elderK* watches a mysterious stranger hand alaricsp some new eyes
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10:29:15 <alaricsp> Didn't somebody implement a basic scheme in shell script?
10:29:29 <elderK> like, (ba)?sh
10:29:30 <elderK> ?
10:29:43 <elderK> I was thinking fo rbrevity, just trying some ideas in Scheem.
10:29:47 <elderK> I could do it in C, but I cant be bothered.
10:29:47 <elderK> lol
10:30:00 <elderK> just thinking of a little calculator, like, to handle shit like
10:30:15 <elderK> (+ 1 (* 1 (/ 8 2)))
10:30:17 <elderK> or something
10:30:20 <elderK> playing with ideas.
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10:30:40 <elderK> but instead of using Scheme's builtin stuff,
10:30:52 <elderK> using my own functions, taking the 'script' as a string.
10:30:59 <elderK> mostly jus tplayin gin Scheme because atm, its more convenient.
10:31:32 <p1dzkl> scsh is designed for shell scripts
10:32:42 <elderK> I didnt mean script in that sense.
10:32:50 <elderK> I meant in the sense of 'something my little interpreter can parse'
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10:44:39 <dzhus> elderK: scsh?
10:44:54 <dzhus> oh that was already mentioned :)
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10:52:49 <elderK> What do you guys think of this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_S-expressions
10:55:25 <leppie|work> it seems to look less compact than sexpr's
10:56:57 <elderK> aye.
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11:23:36 <elderK> Hey guys,
11:23:43 <elderK> does r5rs specify a string->number function?
11:23:50 *elderK* is looking up at r5rs now, lookin'
11:24:28 <elderK> us
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11:38:51 <leppie|work> r5rs string->number
11:38:51 <specbot> http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_352
11:38:53 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/cxn85s
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11:45:55 <elderK> r5rs bacon burger
11:45:59 <elderK> aw
11:46:10 <elderK> r5rs string->number
11:46:10 <specbot> http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_352
11:46:12 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/cxn85s
11:46:13 <elderK> clever
11:46:13 <elderK> :)
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13:11:33 <Klaxon_> Hey there everyone
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15:12:41 <Riastradh> In <http://mumble.net/~campbell/tmp/paredit/> are several patches for paredit in the form of elisp files to load after paredit to modify its behaviour.  Anyone interested is welcome to test these; I wish to solicit feedback.
15:12:52 <Riastradh> At the top of each elisp file in that directory is a blurb explaining what it does.
15:13:05 <duncanm> hey Riastradh
15:13:31 <Riastradh> Hi.
15:16:01 <leppie> excuse the ignorance, but are those commands in that PDF normally meant to be bound, say ( to paredit-open-round ?
15:16:55 <Riastradh> Huh?
15:16:57 <leppie> the ( key iow
15:17:21 <chandler> I still don't understand the question.
15:17:50 <leppie> ok, instead of the editor just putting ( into the text buffer, does it call paredit-open-round instead?
15:18:04 <chandler> Riastradh: What is the relation between paredit-delimiter-space.el and paredit-delimiter-space.patch ?
15:18:21 <chandler> Yes; normally ( is bound to self-insert, but in paredit-mode it is bound to paredit-open-round.
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15:18:57 <leppie> thanks chandler, I never though about it that way, weird
15:19:04 <leppie> my mind is opening :)
15:19:19 <leppie> s/though/thought/
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15:20:15 <leppie> and suddenly emacs starts making a bit more sense to me
15:20:27 <chandler> That's not a good thing.
15:20:52 <leppie> i have never been able to use emacs, and I still dont know how
15:21:35 <Riastradh> chandler, paredit-delimiter-space.patch is a red herring.  There isn't much sense to it.
15:21:43 <Riastradh> I forgot why I put it up there.
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15:22:56 <chandler> Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't look like I can have multiple extensions to PAREDIT-SPACE-FOR-DELIMITER-P. Is that correct?
15:23:22 <Riastradh> Make it a buffer-local variable.  See paredit-cl-octothorpe.el.
15:23:57 <chandler> That gives me one extension per buffer, correct?
15:24:02 <chandler> I would like to extend what paredit-cl-octothorpe.el does further.
15:25:28 <Riastradh> paredit-cl-octothorpe.el is meant to be a proof of concept, nothing more.
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15:26:29 <Riastradh> Do you want to extend the particular behaviour implemented in paredit-cl-octothorpe.el, or do you want a more general extension mechanism?
15:27:52 <chandler> I would like to have the behavior implemented in paredit-cl-octothrope.el, in addition an extension for a custom reader macro of my own.
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15:28:01 <chandler> So I believe the answer is the latter; I'd like a more general extension mechanism.
15:28:27 <Riastradh> Does your custom reader macro not behave like #P, #A, or #+?
15:28:41 <Riastradh> If it behaves like any of those three, you can just add it to the relevant list.
15:28:54 <foof> What are #P and #A?
15:29:10 <Riastradh> Reader macros for literal pathnames and literal arrays.
15:29:31 <Riastradh> For literal arrays, there is an optional dimension argument between the octothorpe and the `A'.
15:29:46 <Riastradh> So you can write, for instance, #2A((A B) (C D)) for a two-dimensional array.
15:29:51 <chandler> No. It accepts a superset of the XML start tag and self-closing tag syntax.
15:30:18 <Riastradh> chandler, in that case, would you be happy with writing your own predicate that calls `paredit-space-for-delimiter-predicate-common-lisp'?
15:32:51 <chandler> It would certainly work, but why not make the variable a list of predicates, composed by AND?
15:33:28 <foof> chandler: You mean like #<img src="..." /> ?
15:35:06 <chandler> foof: It's not an octothorpe macro.
15:35:20 <chandler> (<a href="foo"> <img src="bar"/>)
15:36:32 <foof> chandler: What on earth for?! :)
15:36:47 <chandler> For producing XML.
15:37:00 <foof> And you don't like SXML?
15:39:09 <chandler> No, not much.
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15:41:20 <chandler> For starters, I'm working in Common Lisp, and SXML doesn't map well to that.
15:41:33 <chandler> (Hence why I want the paredit-cl-octothorpe.el behavior as well.)
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15:43:43 <chandler> Secondly, the lexical syntax I'm using is slightly different than a SXML or LXML-type infoset representation.
15:44:27 <chandler> <foo> denotes a function in my syntax, which when applied to a number of arguments returns a CXML STP element whose children are those arguments.
15:45:19 <chandler> Thus, (<a href="foo"> <img src="bar"/>) does not need to be quoted; it can be mixed freely with other code, and I can do things like (mapcar <foo> some-list).
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15:50:31 <Riastradh> Any other comments, chandler?  I'll write a note about a list of predicates and think about it further.
15:50:58 <chandler> No; I haven't actually tried it yet, and I probably won't be able to today, as I have a very long to-do list right now.
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15:51:34 <chandler> I'll let you know what I think when I write a space-for-delimiter predicate for my XML syntax.
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16:43:21 <masm> Soo, I'm new to PLT-Scheme. I have this Scheme to Javascript compiler written in Common Lisp. I want to port it to PLT-Scheme. The idea is to not implement a module system and macro system and somehow reuse what exists in PLT.
16:44:19 <masm> My ideia is I would write a module using #lang scmjs. This whould be expanded to the core syntatic forms in plt-scheme (the ones in ch. 2 of the reference manual) by plt-scheme. Then I take these and generate javascript (maybe using javascript.plt) and put it in a file, or serve it with the web server. Is this somehow possible?
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16:45:00 <gnomon> masm, sure, it sounds possible.  You may want to ask wingo-tp about that when he/she/it/they return(s).
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16:47:15 <eli> masm: Ask on the mailing list -- there is already one working Scheme -> JS compiler.
16:47:51 <eli> gnomon: IIRC, wingo did a JS interpreter in schem, not what masm asks about.
16:48:49 <gnomon> eli, I meant that wingo might have some insight into the code generation part, not into the PLT-specific parts.
16:49:06 <masm> eli: I know about the scheme2js by the bigloo guys. Are you talking about that one?
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16:50:06 <eli> masm: no; I'm talking about a relatively new package for PLT.
16:50:41 <eli> gnomon: What I meant is that wingo does JS -> Scheme, wheras masm asks about Scheme -> JS.
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16:53:32 *gnomon* facepalms
16:53:55 <gnomon> Of course, you're completely correct.
16:55:32 <masm> Anyhow, what I need is the PLT-specific parts. The CL compiler already works, and implements most things in r5rs except macros and the number tower. I was looking for PLT for the module system and macros.
16:55:40 <masm> I'll ask on the mailing list.
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17:12:16 <danking> eli: Do you recall the name of that package?  Is it in PLaneT?
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17:16:16 <eli> danking: no for both.
17:21:32 <bweaver> masm: It may or may not be useful to you, but Mark Feeley wrote a Scheme -> JS compiler for Gambit-C.  It is available here: http://dynamo.iro.umontreal.ca/~gambit/wiki/index.php/Dumping_Grounds#Language
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19:09:29 <Riastradh> In case anyone here was not about earlier:  In <http://mumble.net/~campbell/tmp/paredit/>, there are several patches to paredit, each in the form of an elisp file to be loaded after paredit.el to modify its behaviour, with a blurb at the top summarizing the modified behaviour.  If you'd like to try these, I solicit feedback.
19:12:26 <kuribas> Riastradh: Ok, thanks.
19:12:44 <Riastradh> Some of these may work only with the latest beta.
19:13:36 *kuribas* is actually quite happy with the version he is using.
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19:16:54 <sjamaan> Riastradh: One thing I'm missing in paredit is hungry delete, like C mode has
19:17:08 <Riastradh> Hungry delete?
19:17:20 <sjamaan> Occasionally when removing an sexpr, you want to call in the expr on the next line after the current expr
19:17:45 <sjamaan> Pressing C-d repeatedly works, but is annoying because you have to delete all the whitespace of the indentation of the next line
19:17:58 <Riastradh> What about M-^ or M-SPC or M-\?
19:18:09 <Riastradh> Sorry, the last one was `M-\', without the quote marks.
19:18:27 *sjamaan* tries
19:18:56 <sjamaan> ah, that's what I was looking for
19:19:00 <sjamaan> Thanks :)
19:20:32 <sjamaan> I wonder why C mode has its own thing for that...
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19:21:17 <kuribas> When I load paredit-semicolon, I get "invalid read syntax: '#'"
19:22:26 <Riastradh> Sorry, thinko.  Refetch the file.
19:22:38 <kuribas> There seems to be an extra #\;
19:23:12 <kuribas> Ah, I like this behaviour much better.
19:24:00 <kuribas> I am in favor of reindenting, although I don't see the semicolon would fly off...
19:24:14 <Riastradh> Hmm?  I can't parse the second half of that sentence.
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19:26:04 <kuribas> _why_ the semicolon would fly off...
19:26:17 <kuribas> "Question: In the second example, should the entire list be Reindented?  Currently it is not, causing the indentation of `quux' to be wrong; however, if it were, then the semicolon would fly off into the margin."
19:26:38 <Riastradh> Try it.  Insert a semicolon, and then put the point before the enclosing list and hit `C-M-q'.
19:27:54 <kuribas> I see.
19:28:17 <kuribas> Wouldn't it be possible to reindent only the part _after_ the semicolon?
19:28:37 <Riastradh> That's what it does now.
19:28:52 <Riastradh> Or do you mean all the expressions in the enclosing list after the semicolon?
19:28:56 <kuribas> yes
19:29:05 <Riastradh> I could do that.
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19:36:08 <kuribas> paredit-zoink is really nice.
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19:39:50 <synx> man... figuring out how to keep sqlite from locking up is just a nightmare. I can't seem to escape it, even when I prevent returning into the row retrieval procedure.
19:40:50 <synx> worse it leaves the lock, and then only on the second attempt to use the database long after the error does it error out.
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19:45:50 <karlw> So, uh...
19:46:16 <Riastradh> kuribas, how about paredit-semicolon.el now?
19:46:38 <karlw> How is extension language stuff coming along for Scheme nowadays.
19:46:42 <karlw> ?
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19:47:53 <kuribas> Riastradh: The #\; has reappeared again...
19:48:20 <Riastradh> What??
19:48:34 <Riastradh> Are you sure?
19:49:17 <kuribas> Hm, no, I must be using the wrong file...
19:50:54 <kuribas> Riastradh: I like it like it is now.
19:51:57 <Riastradh> I'm slightly nervous about this because the indentation ceases to be as local as it was before.
19:52:31 <Riastradh> Emacs doesn't always get indentation right, and it always frustrates me when `M-s' breaks the indentation I chose by hand.
19:52:54 <synx> oh wait I missed getting rid of an unwind-protect, might still work then...
19:53:23 <kuribas> Riastradh: You could set it as an option?
19:53:51 <Riastradh> That would violate the long precedent of paredit's being totally uncustomizable.
19:53:59 <kuribas> Ah :-)
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19:57:14 <Riastradh> Right now, any paredit operation generally reindents only those forms that it directly changed.  So, for example, `M-r' reindents the form after the point, but none surrounding it.  Paredit does not reindent any forms whose automatic indentation may have changed as a consequence of some context that was directly changed.
20:00:25 <kuribas> Better to keep that policy then.
20:01:20 <kuribas> If I want to temporary comment out some part of my code, I wouldn't want it to be reindented.
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21:05:06 <synx> oh my...
21:05:34 <synx> <style type="text/css"> </head> <p>a:link{text-decoration: none; ...
21:05:49 <synx> And I thought my HTML parser was broken...
21:07:11 <synx> <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0"> I should add.
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21:19:30 <karlw> How efficient is plain loaded code in csi compared to dynamically loaded compiled code?
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