00:00:27 -!- elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 00:00:41 mejja: ~(_8^(|) 00:00:42 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-228.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:01 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-131-126.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 00:01:18 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-131-126.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 00:02:57 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-228.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:05:35 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:08:21 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:09:26 -!- jao [n=jao@94.Red-88-6-161.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:18:34 pants1 [n=hkarau@75-119-240-119.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:20:20 -!- pantsd [n=hkarau@75-119-240-239.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:23:42 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:36:25 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 00:37:35 -!- sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-122-228.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:47:12 phearle [n=phearle@c-24-63-120-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:47:27 synx: `net/url' is retarded? 00:51:12 -!- ventonegro [n=alex@c9519129.virtua.com.br] has quit [] 01:00:34 Modius_ [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has joined #scheme 01:00:49 -!- Modius_ [n=Modius@24.174.112.56] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:02:51 BW^- [i=Miranda@151.80.132.59] has joined #scheme 01:03:25 did you see any some-kind-of-Scheme-dialect to Javascript "compiler" intended to write regular Javascript but with some Scheme functionality such as macros? 01:17:17 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:21:45 BW^-: this? http://hop.inria.fr/usr/local/share/hop/weblets/home/articles/scheme2js/article.html 01:21:56 BW^-: maybe this? http://code.google.com/p/js-scheme/ 01:24:18 guilecmaskript? 01:26:18 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@89.146.170.241] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:27:01 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:29:49 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:32:38 Riastradh: ping? 01:33:35 Riastradh: do you know the reasons behind having rename.scm and winren.scm in Edwin? Why is BUFFER-FRAME-X-SIZE renamed to be WINDOW-X-SIZE (and others in edwin.pkg) anyhow? 01:36:29 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 01:38:43 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-241-232.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 01:39:20 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 01:39:54 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-60.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:40:10 klutometis: checking scheme2js 01:42:02 could it ever be worth to run a scheme interpreter in a production JS app? 01:45:16 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 01:46:15 -!- BW^- [i=Miranda@151.80.132.59] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 01:48:32 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-165-44.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:51:23 BW^- [i=Miranda@151.80.64.212] has joined #scheme 01:52:32 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 01:54:39 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:58:58 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 02:11:32 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 02:13:21 -!- cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-249-162.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:15:26 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 02:16:04 a-s` [n=user@92.81.146.45] has joined #scheme 02:16:44 -!- tnovelli [n=tom@pool-96-236-117-60.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit ["leaving"] 02:19:03 -!- a-s [n=user@92.81.151.172] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:24:16 -!- Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-72-69-245-16.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:24:37 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-42-247.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:25:59 GHC seems to be a bit slow on the compile time. :-) 02:26:46 it is :) 02:26:56 especially with large source files 02:32:16 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 02:32:17 Riastradh: Is there some reason that darcs 2.2.0 would balk at your repositories? 02:32:46 voodoo! 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05:19:45 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055E2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 05:24:27 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055E2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:29:43 phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #scheme 05:30:41 pflanze [n=chris__@trex.iro.umontreal.ca] has joined #scheme 05:31:16 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:38:25 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 05:41:07 Algebraist [n=Algebrai@ool-18bbabbf.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 05:41:25 -!- Algebraist [n=Algebrai@ool-18bbabbf.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 05:42:10 leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-67635330ca7d9c43] has joined #scheme 05:46:26 incubot: i'm impressed, too, that qwerty got a and m correct; it means that i have two less keycaps to replace when i dvoracize the keyboard 05:46:29 oled keycaps... 05:48:18 -!- mngbd [n=user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:48:29 mngbd [n=user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 06:01:31 -!- phax [n=phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:13:55 bombshelter13p_ [n=bombshel@24.114.232.32] has joined #scheme 06:16:53 foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:27:59 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:28:28 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:29:10 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 06:33:56 ikaros [n=ikaros@f051089176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 06:38:18 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:40:33 ASau [n=user@host193-230-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 06:40:54 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #scheme 06:41:27 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 06:41:49 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 06:41:49 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:49:19 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:50:16 -!- Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:54:08 -!- bombshelter13p_ [n=bombshel@24.114.232.32] has quit [Success] 06:54:46 pantsd [n=hkarau@strombola.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #scheme 06:55:10 I don't know if you guys are interested but the reason I was asking the questions today was to finish makeing: http://web2.0collage.com/ 06:55:15 its in scheme (and js) 06:55:24 ftw 06:56:08 Quetzalcoatl_ [n=godless@cpe-71-72-235-91.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:59:16 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:00:27 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:01:18 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:05:01 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:05:31 pantsd: Can it be that it uses just a few of the last entries (in alphabetical order)? It happens that it just shows your own banner, i guess this is because your site starts with 'w', and is thus the last of my current entries. 07:06:31 (But I have just about 10 entries, and 6 are form your site...) 07:07:56 it should use all of the entries, but it may be doing something odd (my imagemagick interface just skips errors and moves onto the next image if it can't load one) 07:08:01 I will poke 07:08:27 I am getting some more entries and trying again... 07:08:42 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@ddsl-74-209-24-85.taconic.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:11:24 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [n=godless@cpe-71-72-235-91.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 07:15:57 Seems that I can do what I want -- the image will consist just of your favicon (but i have some serios sites in my history). Beside that: maybe I should consider turning off javascript :-) 07:17:04 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 07:17:54 the list of sites is should probe are in http://web2.0collage.com/sitelist.js , but to be honest I've only tested the js on my home computer and one at school :p 07:19:03 there is an interesting site where someone used pure css to sniff browser history, but I was lazy (and wanted to poke some scheme) so I just wrote some a js version 07:23:33 ejs [n=eugen@252-32-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 07:29:11 I understand... But maybe you should use a longer whitelist: URLs i have in my history, but are not listed: srfi.schemers.org, blog.holdenkarau.com, -->blog.holdenkarau.com<--, ... 07:30:30 elderK [n=elderK@222-152-92-36.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 07:32:58 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:33:27 Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #scheme 07:34:59 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 07:37:34 Using more whitelisted pages, results get more funny. 07:42:16 -!- Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B5680D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:43:03 Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B56BF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:50:04 blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has joined #scheme 07:53:25 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:56:00 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #scheme 07:56:54 -!- 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2.0 is so aughts 08:39:05 -!- blandest [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:40:54 sepult [n=user@xdsl-87-78-100-216.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:46:14 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-163.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 08:46:30 gege [i=57e2d4ba@gateway/web/freenode/x-f0f4274c8b743096] has joined #scheme 08:47:47 because the domain was avaible and webcollage.com was allready taken 08:55:53 -!- gege [i=57e2d4ba@gateway/web/freenode/x-f0f4274c8b743096] has quit ["Page closed"] 09:09:05 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@f051089176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leave the magic to Houdini"] 09:10:24 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has joined #scheme 09:12:01 http://code.google.com/p/chibi-scheme/ <- hg repo now available 09:12:43 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:14:21 terre [i=57e2d4ba@gateway/web/freenode/x-38458631e858f2df] has joined #scheme 09:14:44 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has 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download PLaneT packages (i.e. the .plt files) without launching mzscheme? I can't find a regular download link on the PLaneT site... 14:08:18 -!- thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26] has quit [] 14:21:00 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 14:22:06 -!- ejs0 [n=eugen@89-14-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:25:52 rotty: http://doc.plt-scheme.org/planet/cmdline.html#(part._fetch) 14:26:51 neilv: thanks 14:29:25 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@77.40.165.3] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:42:24 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-120-109.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 14:49:34 ejs [n=eugen@252-29-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 14:52:18 -!- cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-249-162.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["BRB"] 14:53:04 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 14:54:13 -!- weinholt [i=weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:54:36 -!- leppie|work [i=52d2e3c8@gateway/web/freenode/x-31fa1fdafeddfa26] has quit ["Page closed"] 14:56:17 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 14:56:28 weinholt [i=weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme 14:56:56 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 14:58:23 cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-249-162.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 15:01:15 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 15:01:41 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 15:07:31 -!- Fufie [n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:08:03 kidd_ [n=user@111.Red-193-152-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:09:42 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:11:35 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:11:36 -!- socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-159-23.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:11:53 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 15:15:31 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:21:11 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:21:18 -!- blandest1 [n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:23:04 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:23:18 -!- ejs [n=eugen@252-29-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:28:47 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 15:32:07 socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-14-156.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #scheme 15:33:38 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:36:31 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 15:37:42 -!- npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Client Quit] 15:38:19 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 15:42:27 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-163.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:46:03 -!- Arelius [n=indy@64.174.9.113] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:48:54 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-163.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 15:50:18 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@98.202.86.149] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:50:18 -!- pflanze [n=chris__@trex.iro.umontreal.ca] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:52:14 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [No route to host] 15:53:35 -!- socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-14-156.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:53:49 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:58:43 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@89.146.175.88] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:58:43 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-163.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:58:47 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@89.146.175.88] has joined #scheme 15:59:47 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@89.146.175.88] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:00:02 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@89.146.175.88] has joined #scheme 16:01:05 ineiros_ [n=ineiros@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #scheme 16:02:11 tonyg [n=tonyg@host226.lshift.net] has joined #scheme 16:02:27 davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 16:04:16 -!- charmless [n=charmles@207.47.213.196] has left #scheme 16:05:51 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-163.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 16:06:02 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-202-163.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:07:23 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 16:10:00 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:12:29 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-131.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:13:30 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 16:16:47 Question. Consider (define-syntax foo (begin (write 'foobar) (syntax-rules ...))), in isolation, with no callers of FOO anywhere. Should compiling this definition cause FOOBAR to be output? 16:18:53 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@89.102.28.224] has quit [] 16:19:07 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@89.146.175.88] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:20:15 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 16:20:45 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:24:24 I think it should be a syntax error but since you're asking that it mustn't be.. 16:24:25 Riastradh: I would think so 16:24:56 soupdragon: I am assuming syntax-rules expands to (lambda (stx) ... ) 16:25:47 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 16:25:51 Riastradh: in r6rs, I think it is allowed but not required 16:26:45 actually, I'm incorrect 16:27:00 r6rs requires foobar to be written 16:27:03 I'm not asking for an interpretation of the R6RS; I'm asking about what the right thing is. 16:27:20 (preferably with justification) 16:28:00 I think the right thing to do is execute the code at that point 16:28:05 Why? 16:28:08 syntax definitions are visited by default, not? 16:28:21 when else would it be executed? 16:28:37 leppie, again, I'm not asking for an interpretation of the R6RS (I can read that on my own). I'm asking about what *should* happen, and why. 16:28:42 samth, on the first invocation of the macro. 16:28:50 it would be very strange if (define f (begin e1 e2)) delayed evaluation until invocation of f 16:29:24 and there is no requirement that the rhs of a `define-syntax' form evaluate to a procedure, anyway 16:29:34 For example, if a module contained only syntax definitions, should it be necessary to evaluate anything in order to compile it? 16:29:40 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:29:42 so it might not even make sense to wait until the macro is called 16:30:12 Compiling (DEFINE F (BEGIN E1 E2)) doesn't have the effect of evaluating E1 or E2. 16:30:25 right, but evaluating it does 16:30:39 and compiling a module requires evaluating its syntax-time component 16:30:41 That's right. So should compiling (DEFINE-SYNTAX F (BEGIN E1 E2)) have the effect of evaluating E1 and E2? 16:30:43 same goes for (define f (/ 1 0)) 16:30:52 Right, but the right-hand side of DEFINE-SYNTAX exists in a phase that's evaluated when the compiler operates. 16:31:02 I think it should be printed, personally. 16:33:02 Can you think of any examples of a useful program that would rely on having FOOBAR output? 16:33:08 yes 16:33:14 Riastradh: no 16:33:19 hehe 16:33:42 in general, typed scheme (and lots of other PLT macros) relies heavily on expansion-time side effects 16:33:44 im sure that there are valid use cases 16:33:55 Riastradh: I think so, and it actually depends on adding another level of indirection to the example. 16:34:06 How many of these expansion-time side effects happen outside transformer procedures, samth? 16:34:06 for an extensive discussion, see culpepper et al, Scheme Workshop 2007 16:34:12 lots 16:34:16 Examples, please. 16:34:35 the examples are fairly complicated, and i recommend you read the paper 16:34:38 Suppose I want to have a transformer print out information when it is invoked, for the purposes of debugging. 16:34:53 Now, suppose that transformer is used on the right-hand side of a DEFINE-SYNTAX form. Should it not print when the DEFINE-SYNTAX is compiled? 16:35:10 (define-syntax foo (lambda (stx) ... (my-chatty-syntax ...) ...) 16:35:12 ) 16:35:29 but, for example, a module written in typed scheme leaves a residue in the module which initializes the type environment appropriately when that module is invoked 16:36:08 this technique is also discussed in Flatt's 2002 ICFP paper 16:36:21 samth: stop giving me bad ideas! :) 16:37:07 In the example of the MEMORY module on p. 5, one could just as well define BEGIN-FOR-SYNTAX in a slightly different way so that it has the desired effect. 16:37:07 (Specifically, one could define BEGIN-FOR-SYNTAX so that it introduces a definition and an invocation of a temporary syntactic binding, not just a definition.) 16:37:27 chandler, you can compile the right-hand side of a DEFINE-SYNTAX form without evaluating it. 16:37:44 no, that doesn't work 16:38:25 in particular, if you want to be able to compile a module only once, even when it is invoked multiple times, your strategy will only run the side-effect once 16:39:07 In section 3.2.2 of Flatt's paper, he makes your suggestion 16:39:29 at least, i think that's what he's suggesting 16:39:32 Riastradh: Ah, hm. Not sure what I was thinking a moment ago, actually. 16:39:39 but it won't work, for the reason i described 16:40:03 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 16:42:47 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:46:38 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:08 Suppose BEGIN-FOR-SYNTAX were provided as a primitive, then. 16:47:08 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:47:56 (I haven't ruled out the possibility of a way to define it, but never mind that.) Are there any remaining uses of DEFINE-SYNTAX that rely on its immediately evaluating the right-hand expression? 16:50:51 off the top of my head, i'd say that any such use could be rewritten into a use of `begin-for-syntax' 16:51:00 but i haven't thought about it that hard 16:51:36 Hi, in order to try to understand better the continuations I have written several usage examples. I have written a (common I think) lambda* form for generators, but it does not work well. 16:51:47 davazp pasted "call/cc example" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82696 16:52:34 annodomini_ [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 16:52:34 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:53:09 I hope someone can take a look and help me 16:55:04 Anyway, I need lunch. 16:57:05 davazp: using continuations to make a generator is /usually/ a mistake. Dunno about yours though... 16:57:14 davazp: Let's start with your simple generator function (`generator-integers'). 16:57:31 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot 16:57:52 davazp: In your example, you call the result of evaluating (generator-integers) three times at the toplevel. 16:58:21 What would happen if, instead, you were to evaluate (list (f) (f) (f)) (where `f' is bound to the result of evaluating `(generator-integers)') at the top-level? 17:00:08 synx: Well, ideally you'd want composable continuations, but it's certainly possible to create a simple implementation using nothing but undelimited continuations. 17:00:22 oy I'm already lost, never mind... 17:01:01 synx: it is only a example 17:01:07 -!- pierpa [n=user@host202-182-static.80-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:27 composable...? 17:01:47 http://community.schemewiki.org/?composable-continuations-tutorial 17:01:53 davazp: An example that doesn't work. :/ 17:02:17 I don't know how to use continuations to implement generators, without the use of mutation. If I can use set! though I can do it. 17:02:21 chandler: I see, (list (f) (f) (f)) does not work 17:02:30 korvin [n=korvin@host-204-145-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #scheme 17:02:48 re all 17:02:49 -!- samth is now known as samth_lunch 17:03:19 synx: Think about how to use call/cc on the right hand side of a binding form to change the value of that variable, then :-) 17:03:29 synx: But the simple answer is to use `set!'. It's not evil. 17:03:42 blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has joined #scheme 17:03:43 Perhaps you'd care to follow along while I help davazp understand why his implementation doesn't work. 17:03:43 where can I change default font of MrEd GUI Toolkit widges? 17:03:57 davazp: Right. So, let's step through that. 17:04:13 the right hand side of a binding form...? 17:04:33 (let ((x (call-with-current-continuation (lambda (k) ...)))) ...) ? 17:04:46 er, without a question mark at the end. 17:05:04 Should davazp's implementation work? I don't see how it's possible. 17:05:11 No, his implementation does not work. 17:06:07 npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 17:06:22 davazp: In the first call to `f', what continuations are captured, and what is done with them? 17:07:48 chandler: I try capture the continuation of each call to yield, and set resume to that point 17:08:20 I don't understand the difference between (f) (f) (f) at toplevel and (list (f) (f) (f)) 17:08:44 something is wrong in my mind model 17:09:46 The difference is that the toplevel is (typically) treated as a continuation delimiter. In other words, when a continuation is captured, it captures up to the point where the toplevel prompts for a form to evaluate. 17:10:21 If you don't understand that, the right thing to do for now is to ignore the toplevel and focus on (list (f) (f) (f)). 17:12:36 I don't know if you're lecturing davazp about how it cannot work, or about how he's simply missing a twiddle here or there, chandler. 17:12:53 chandler annotated #82696 "A cleaned up version of the same program" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/82696#1 17:13:07 synx: I'm trying to help him understand *why* it does not work. 17:13:16 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/lousy-generator.ss is the closest I've come to a non-mutating generator. 17:13:43 It must produce the next value /and/ the next step though, otherwise I won't have any way to get to the next value after that. 17:14:15 synx did you try using continuations 17:14:27 davazp: I don't understand toplevel at all. I try never to use it. xp 17:14:32 If you'd like, I can show you how to write a generator that doesn't use any obvious forms of mutation, though any true generator (in the usual sense of the word) *must* mutate something. 17:14:45 But, I'd first like to walk through this with davazp. 17:14:55 synx: it is a exercise about continuations, not about generators 17:14:55 uh, yes soupdragon I used continuations. There's no simpler way to do it though, that I can find. 17:15:10 I thank your help, chandler 17:15:21 davazp: I removed some of your extra syntactic forms from the example, because I was having trouble remembering what they did. I believe my expansion is equivalent to what you started with. 17:15:28 Well if you want a non-obvious mutator just call (channel-put) inside (thread) 17:15:47 channel-put and channel-get should really be labeled channel-put! and channel-get! 17:16:18 korvin: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/gui/mredprefs.html 17:16:52 davazp: The generator closes over a variable named `resume', which is always bound to a procedure. Before `k' is called the first time, where does the continuation of the procedure that is bound to `resume' lead? 17:17:20 eli . thnx 17:17:33 socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-14-156.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #scheme 17:19:10 2 17:19:16 sorry* 17:20:04 rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 17:20:41 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #scheme 17:21:55 chandler: before k is called, Iuse the continuation of the procedure bound to `resume' as local escape 17:22:36 Before it's called the first time, it's bound to an ordinary procedure, correct? 17:22:41 Fufie [n=innocent@86.80-203-225.nextgentel.com] has joined #scheme 17:23:01 yes 17:24:17 After it is called the first time, what is it bound to? 17:25:44 it should be bound to the continuation of the first yield, I thought 17:27:40 Right. And the first yield is bound to a continuation which has captured another continuation, called 'return', right? 17:29:53 the continuation of the first yield, do you mean? yield is a ordinary procedure 17:30:24 Erm, yes. It's a procedure that has captured another continuation. Where does that continuation go? 17:32:49 return escapes from resume, it is from the first ordinary procedure resume 17:33:33 and capture its own continuation cont 17:34:18 which should go to after of the yield 17:34:41 JoelMcCracken [n=jmccrack@student312-1.psc.edu] has joined #scheme 17:34:48 Right. And that continuation is then stored into `resume'. 17:35:19 So, let's look at the second call to `k'. That will call the continuation that was captured as `cont' during the first call to `yield', correct? 17:35:51 correct 17:36:48 When `cont' was captured, what is `return' bound to? 17:36:54 er, "was" 17:37:31 it was bound to the escape of the first ordinary procedure 17:38:21 Which was captured during the first invocation of `k', correct? 17:38:43 eli . I'v write ``(MrEd:controlFontSize 8)'' (like in doc) to file ``(find-system-path 'pref-file)'' but it have no any effect =/ 17:39:05 indeed 17:39:41 So, what would (list (k) (display "Here I am again!\n") (k)) do? 17:39:58 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:39:59 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE1DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:41:08 oh, I understand I think, when second (k) invocate the return continuation, we return to the first (k) 17:41:13 don't? 17:41:26 I believe the verb is 'invoke' 17:41:38 korvin: Try to use (|MrEd:...| ...) -- with the bars to preserve the case. 17:41:44 davazp: That's correct. 17:41:56 ok 17:42:17 mrsolo [n=mrsolo@nat/yahoo/x-4ddc580d4ec4f90b] has joined #scheme 17:42:37 Anyway, I have to step away from the keyboard for now. 17:42:53 yep.. it is a subtle detail 17:43:36 (for me, of course) 17:43:42 eli . thnx again. it works now =) 17:45:46 korvin: Sure. It should really be fixed (the docs, or preferrably the reader should read it in case-sensitive mode...) 17:46:52 -!- JoelMcCracken is now known as eljo 17:47:21 -!- eljo is now known as JoelMcCracken 17:47:44 eli . and why it isn't fixed yet? =) 17:48:19 korvin: my guess is that changing the reader is the better option, and that's heavier than it looks. 17:48:46 I see... 17:49:32 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 17:54:06 chandler: I need assimilate it, then I will try it again bearing in mind your remark. Many thanks again 17:58:02 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:06:01 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c2391BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 18:10:40 fabse [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 18:11:06 -!- samth_lunch is now known as samth 18:11:24 -!- korvin [n=korvin@host-204-145-66-217.spbmts.ru] has left #scheme 18:14:25 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:17:20 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-148.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:18:34 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE1DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:22:12 wy [n=wy@66.194.68.210] has joined #scheme 18:28:41 Darki [i=Darkstar@p57B55110.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:29:22 -!- Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B56BF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:29:34 -!- Darki is now known as Dark-Star 18:30:30 arcfide [n=arcfide@ppp-70-246-150-121.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:31:14 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 18:31:47 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=jmccrack@student312-1.psc.edu] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:38:25 jao [n=jao@94.Red-88-6-161.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:48:19 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:50:25 choas [n=lars@p5B0DE1DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 18:56:54 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-120-109.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!"] 19:00:28 -!- Greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:13:54 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 19:16:18 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:18:27 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 19:23:49 gfb [i=4c45558e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ac77e76386eec20c] has joined #scheme 19:26:20 metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 19:26:43 rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has joined #scheme 19:26:49 -!- gfb [i=4c45558e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ac77e76386eec20c] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 19:27:37 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:29:24 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c2391BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:30:49 -!- wy [n=wy@66.194.68.210] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:34:16 How can the Ackermann function in SICP be "non-standard"? 19:37:42 -!- rouslan [n=Rouslan@unaffiliated/rouslan] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:38:02 Is it possible to restart the plt scheme webserver without it losing everyones sessions/continuations? 19:38:14 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 19:40:45 ejs [n=eugen@15-235-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 19:40:48 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@24-107-112-153.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 19:47:16 leppie: ping 19:47:27 arcfide: pong 19:47:46 arcfide, you asked or said something earlier to which I had a response, but I can't remember what it was. Can you tell me what I was about to say to you? 19:48:02 -!- nicktastic [n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has left #scheme 19:49:10 Riastradh: there was something I mentioned about Darcs, but I figured that out. 19:49:30 Oh, right: I didn't have a useful answer. I don't know why it doesn't work in Darcs 2.2.0. 19:49:38 You were about to say that I was incorrectly calling and utilizing the darcs command set such that I was trying to pull changes from your repository into a Darcs 2 repository. 19:49:56 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 19:49:57 Aha. Very clever. 19:50:04 I should have been using the 'get' command to initially checkout your code. 19:50:19 See, arcfide, you can't just pull an old-format repository into a Darcs 2 one; that's what you were doing wrong. 19:50:23 Got it now? 19:50:28 Yep. Thanks for the help. 19:53:18 arcfide: pong 19:54:08 leppie: Does IronScheme support the #!fold-case form? 19:54:49 Did you manually (or semi-automatically) fold case the loop.scm file from Riastradh's darcs repo to make your R6RS library of foof loop? 19:55:09 khisanth__ [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-237-196.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:55:21 no, but I was thinking of writing an include/without-case macro, that would handle that 19:55:39 yes, I manually lowercased them, dont tell Riastradh :p 19:55:47 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-141-157-237-196.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 19:56:04 leppie: Bad you. Well, I'm working on making a proper library without the need to adjust Riastradh's original source file. 19:56:08 I wonder how hard it would be to add that? probably not much 19:56:20 hey all 19:56:21 :) 19:56:22 leppie: 'include/fold-case' is pretty easy. 19:56:49 arcfide: can you share please? :p I just not got around to it 19:57:27 leppie: I haven't written in, but you just take the standard 'include' macro and fold the case of each identifier. 19:57:36 s/in/it/ 19:58:06 -!- khisanth__ is now known as Khisanth 19:58:26 At least, I think that's what you would have to do to write a portable version. 19:58:34 yeah 19:58:58 i'll make a note about that syntax extensions too, could be nice 19:59:13 ok sleep time, bye 20:06:17 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:18:45 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 20:21:26 Arelius [n=indy@64.174.9.113] has joined #scheme 20:28:04 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:37:15 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 20:38:04 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 20:44:55 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:45:34 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 20:47:40 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-148.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 20:53:16 -!- ejs [n=eugen@15-235-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:54:04 X-Scale [i=email@89.180.128.178] has joined #scheme 20:55:09 Riastradh: Is nested-foof-loop still best obtained in your tmp/ directory? 20:59:10 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:00:54 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-241-232.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 21:01:28 -!- metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit ["If you reach back in your memory, a little bell might ring, 'bout a time that once existed when money wasn't king."] 21:06:54 Yes, arcfide. 21:07:00 It is still experimental. 21:08:08 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-203-169.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:12:37 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:13:08 rotty: Were you the one who ported trc-testing to R6RS? 21:23:37 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DE1DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:33:48 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:34 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:42:40 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 21:45:09 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:57:22 tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296bce.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:04:32 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@89.146.171.188] has joined #scheme 22:13:13 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@f051024247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leave the magic to Houdini"] 22:16:25 -!- npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:16:31 tobetchi_ [n=tobetchi@p296be5.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 22:18:19 -!- mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:19:14 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:19:57 mbishop [n=martin@unaffiliated/mbishop] has joined #scheme 22:27:24 Quetzalcoatl_ [n=godless@cpe-71-72-235-91.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:29:23 -!- Dark-Star [i=Darkstar@p57B55110.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 22:30:20 dudleyf [n=dudleyf@ip70-178-212-238.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #scheme 22:30:48 arcfide: yes 22:33:21 -!- tobetchi [n=tobetchi@p296bce.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:35:44 alanp [n=alanp@station.laudicina.net] has joined #scheme 22:35:57 Is there a way to check if a variable is bound? 22:37:37 yea,w hat system are you using 22:37:54 Hey guys, 22:38:05 How sensible isusing Scheme for dynamic web content? 22:38:08 over say, PHP or PYthon? 22:38:23 well, i'm using guile 22:39:07 elderK, that depends on what you want to do with it, but I've heard that eli has met with some success, there, as has Shiro Kawai. 22:42:13 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:45:38 as have hop people. 22:48:22 -!- kidd_ [n=user@111.Red-193-152-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:53:12 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 23:01:49 alanp, what about valid-bound-ids? from psyntax.ss 23:06:01 -!- fabse [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit ["Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women"] 23:08:39 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 23:08:51 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 23:11:23 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:13:35 tnovelli [n=tom@pool-96-236-117-60.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:18:39 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 23:19:00 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:31:54 lolcow [n=lolcow@196-210-177-69-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 23:31:58 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-177-69-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:34:05 -!- rdd [n=user@c83-250-157-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:37:41 etate [n=etate@bb-87-81-97-91.ukonline.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:41:40 hey guys, 23:41:56 Anyone know any softwaer that allows display of like, math formulae? 23:42:10 :) It'd be useful for me to practice some math stuff with my friends. 23:42:44 elderK: Mathematica. 23:42:55 Anything free? 23:43:01 I dont need anything hardcore advanced :) 23:43:04 *Quetzalcoatl_* stares blankly. 23:43:13 :P 23:43:14 lol 23:43:29 Maxima displays ASCII-art math formulae. 23:43:33 http://thornahawk.unitedti.org/equationeditor/equationeditor.php 23:43:33 :D 23:44:08 -!- Guest26201 [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Sayoonara"] 23:48:15 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:48:31 elderK: perhaps try maxima with texmacs... it also might work with axiom and the like. 23:51:53 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 23:54:37 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:57:53 elderK: Do you go to a university? 23:59:20 -!- amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit ["Farewell"]