00:01:01 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@cl-88.cph-01.dk.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:02:41 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@78.52.62.249] has quit ["Leave the magic to Houdini"] 00:03:32 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 00:13:15 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 00:13:49 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 00:16:57 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:19:20 incubot: christ; i just realized that, were i to inhabit another planet with a different period of rotation or revolution, most of the date/time functions in glibc would be invalid; and i bet they're not modularized 00:19:23 Not only hard problems, but unknown and unexpected problems. If they were just hard, you could do the needed amount of analysis, and then generate the modularized and structured program in a nice waterfall process. 00:23:06 incubot: i find the terra-centrism of glibc locales troubling 00:23:09 human, Terra, early 21st century. 00:23:26 no shit 00:26:30 what's that from? 00:26:50 it's got to be a quote from some sci fi thing 00:27:36 Arelius [n=indy@64.174.9.113] has joined #scheme 00:32:02 p1dzkl [n=p1dzkl@1505ds1-str.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #scheme 00:37:19 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:41:46 mngbd [n=user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has joined #scheme 00:42:02 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:43:03 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:57:58 -!- pumpkin is now known as liquidsnack 00:58:24 -!- liquidsnack is now known as pumpkin 01:03:10 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@95-24-98-186.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 01:09:37 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 01:28:07 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 01:32:43 incubot: asl? 01:32:51 Eliminating LET, WHILE, and UNTIL from foof-loop would require changing nested-foof-loop. 01:34:04 Foof-loop doesn't strike me as over-featured as loop macros go. 01:34:23 Sorry, naming LET in that list was superfluous. 01:34:42 The trouble with WHILE and UNTIL is that they cause confusing semantics for other parts of the loop. 01:39:26 This is not a problem for nested-foof-loop, but it is a problem for other uses of foof-loop. 01:43:14 Confusing how? 01:51:19 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 01:53:35 time to shut down plt. the holy grail of pedagogy has been attained. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDgigOe4cWc 01:57:32 *eli* grabs the keys and heads over to close all the offices 01:59:06 *eli* turns over the "Yes, we're open!" sign over 01:59:23 neilv: Where did you find this thing? 01:59:35 eli: it's on reddit programming forum right now 01:59:49 *jcowan* doesn't have flash at present; what's it about? 02:00:08 This is like the Bollywood version of the SICP lectures. 02:00:56 koolyow! 02:00:58 And for some reason, on the related videos on the side there is a "CAREERS MOVES IN ART" which doesn't look too related... 02:01:38 brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 02:02:29 btw, i am not recommending the reddit programming forum. it's not very good 02:03:46 ...unsurprisingly. 02:05:29 off topic: anybody knows the magic to make emacs use xpdf to open pdf file and not gv? 02:09:52 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 02:10:04 Since when does emacs start an external viewer? 02:13:29 eli: Well, in auctex xpdf is a default one iirc 02:13:30 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-220-186-66.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:14:58 It's also available in the default tex mode (just do C-c C-c, then type xpdf and tab will complete it). 02:15:55 http://www.neilvandyke.org/weblog/2008/12/#2008-12-31 02:16:04 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-220-168-6.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 02:16:19 M-x customize-variable RET TeX-output-view-style RET 02:17:03 it's a link in org-mode... 02:17:18 *sladegen* reads org.el 02:18:11 something is amiss as the same file opens file from commandline with gv... 02:18:28 s/file f/fine f/ 02:21:52 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@95-24-98-186.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:26:33 jonrafkind [n=jon@lre-west-4-42.usahousing.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 02:32:11 lagenar [n=lucas@190.178.192.214] has joined #scheme 02:32:24 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@75.68.42.94] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:33:39 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@75.68.42.94] has joined #scheme 02:39:03 -!- mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:48:31 -!- lagenar [n=lucas@190.178.192.214] has quit ["Saliendo"] 02:53:15 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176208051.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:47 InTheLanguageLisp 03:09:05 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176204210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:14:00 -!- cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-255-155.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Trying something out. :-)"] 03:15:49 -!- mngbd [n=user@081-003-214-196.yesss.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:16:00 cky [n=cky@166.166.96.50] has joined #scheme 03:16:16 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-109-2-157.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:24:07 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-69-23-38-57.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:28:50 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-69-23-38-57.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:41:57 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:42:06 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 03:44:38 mhoran [n=mhoran@2607:f2f8:500:0:0:0:0:2] has joined #scheme 03:53:36 -!- cky [n=cky@166.166.96.50] has quit ["Switching ISPs. BRB."] 03:54:34 -!- socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-4-130.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:55:35 cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-255-155.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:56:24 socialite [n=piespy@dynamic-78-8-3-44.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #scheme 04:11:19 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 04:14:19 karlw [n=karl@adsl-99-157-202-142.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:17:49 Uh, hi. 04:22:27 karlw: no, it doesn't work that way 04:24:15 karlw: your incipient hesitation marred the subsequent salutation 04:24:15 -!- karlw [n=karl@adsl-99-157-202-142.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:26:22 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 18:27:05 ccl-logbot [n=ccl-logb@master.clozure.com] has joined #scheme 18:27:05 18:27:05 -!- names: ccl-logbot Khisanth hotblack23 liquidsnack Kusanagi nemik z0d duncanm Debolaz chandler Maddas ski michaelw guenthr r0bby eli rotty yosafbridge zbigniew dlouhy specbot sjamaan maskd tarbo XTL tizoc slashcom roderic Axioplase kazzmir stepnem clog hiyuh nasloc__ Riastradh wastrel bunz certainty tessier etoxam nicktastic ecraven glogic rbancroft elf Leonidas REPLeffect mmmulani kandinski bohanlon erg Adrinael qebab CSdread_ ray tltstc ada2358 18:27:05 -!- names: mornfall rudybot danking proq acarrico Ppjet6 underspecified pbusser2 fishey ineiros foof saccade Fade offby1 mreggen minion incubot Archeron marcoecc pitui Poeir_ Deformative X-Scale hosh m811 pfo sphex dmoerner joast rdd raikov heat ski__ ski_ araujo cracki Lectus mbishop pitui` felipe synx rstandy Greg02 bombshelter13_ dsmith tjafk2 sladegen mhoran socialite gnomon leppie kniu wingo Joelbyte eno Edico thesnowdog jewel antoszka underspecified__ 18:27:05 -!- names: synthase luz Nshag Quadrescence MichaelRaskin soupdragon p1dzkl kilimanjaro sepult Elly elmex jonrafkind ikaros mejja mmc HG` blackened` exexex reprore borism Mr-Cat a-s puchacz Arelius lisppaste arcfide tabe poucet klutometis 18:28:38 -!- liquidsnack is now known as pumpkin 18:29:29 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:31:19 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 18:42:34 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 18:48:13 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:49:11 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 18:53:26 -!- pumpkin is now known as hunp 18:53:47 -!- hunp is now known as pumpkin 18:57:49 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.197.6] has joined #scheme 19:01:08 peter_12: What about Tiny Scheme? 19:02:12 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 19:09:35 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 19:19:54 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:20:27 ejs [n=eugen@164-216-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 19:26:30 -!- pumpkin [n=pumpkin@Aeropuerto.Kiewit.Dartmouth.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:27:15 copumpkin [n=pumpkin@Aeropuerto.Kiewit.Dartmouth.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:30:26 FunkyDrummer [n=RageOfTh@92.36.212.85] has joined #scheme 19:39:02 -!- ejs [n=eugen@164-216-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:48:10 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.197.6] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:53:02 pbusser2: you still there? 19:55:49 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 19:56:00 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 19:56:35 peter_12: Yes. 19:56:46 are you involved with Tiny Scheme? 19:57:26 peter_12: No. I have looked at it a bit and I have written an extension module for it. 19:57:40 peter_12: You can find the e-mail of the two authors on the web site. 19:57:48 ahh. It seems the project is in a quiescent period 19:58:06 just curious if anyone has sighted any of the developers in the general Scheme community 19:58:19 the Tiny Scheme mailing list has very few messages 19:59:57 peter_12: True. There are more efficient and better written interpreters around. 20:00:21 there seem to be some problems in the Tiny Scheme code. 20:00:25 I like that it is small 20:00:30 peter_12: Which problems? 20:00:54 not a lot of checking for error return values from functions 20:01:02 I think that is leading to some memory leaks 20:01:07 peter_12: There are other small interpreters. One which looks very good and promissing is written by Alex Shinn, also known as foof in this channel. 20:02:04 I just spent 3 long days reading Tiny Scheme. (I should have asked here first.) 20:02:04 peter_12: It wouldn't surprise me if you were right about that. 20:02:16 also there is a lot of copy and paste coding in Tiny Scheme 20:02:36 "a lot" = "some" which is more than enough 20:03:07 peter_12: Well, I read the code too. I don't think it made me any more stupid than I already am. :-P 20:03:30 I mean, it doesn't hurt to compare implementations. 20:03:48 pbusser2: It was very educational. It is the first Scheme implementation in C I've read. 20:04:06 peter_12: I see. So that means you're new to Scheme? 20:04:13 elias` [n=c@host86-159-170-69.range86-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 20:04:15 not quite 20:04:36 I've been poking around with Scheme for a while but never written anything big in it 20:05:01 I'd like to get involved with a small embed-able Scheme engine. 20:05:07 peter_12: How did you become interested in Scheme? 20:05:43 peter_12: If I were you I would contact foof. I'm sure he can use some help. And his Chibi Scheme is not only small, it is also well written. 20:05:47 well, it might be a cliche but its thanks to Paul Graham 20:06:07 pbusser2: thanks for the direction to foof's code 20:06:48 peter_12: It compiles Scheme to a byte code and it has a VM which executes that byte code. Much more advanced than Tiny Scheme. And it is still very small, comparable to Tiny Scheme. 20:07:13 pbusser2: that sounds very encouraging. I was hoping for an implementation like that. 20:07:54 peter_12: Heh! Join the club. I have been 'converted' by Paul Graham too. Actually I was looking for a better programming language. I have also looked at OCaml and a few others. 20:08:25 peter_12: Oh yes, like I said, it looks very promissing. Alex is now working on a second release. 20:09:06 pbusser2: I've been looking at many languages over the past couple years. Scheme and Erlang are the two that have caught my attention. 20:09:25 peter_12: I was getting annoyed by C, didn't like Java very much (it also annoyed me). So I was looking for something which could be compiled which isn't so annoying. 20:10:00 peter_12: How is it to program in Erlang? 20:10:14 it is all about concurrency. 20:10:20 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:10:21 I haven't done more than a few little examples 20:10:30 peter_12: Yeah, I have read about it, but never tried it. 20:10:41 the concurrency model is really interesting 20:10:50 peter_12: Have you looked at OCaml or Haskell? 20:10:50 but I'm not sure about immutable variables 20:10:57 I haven't looked at OCaml 20:11:08 I have looked at Haskell a bit and I just get confused. 20:11:15 Heh! 20:11:24 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #scheme 20:11:31 It seems like a Rube Goldberg machine. 20:11:44 What is a Rube Goldberg machine? 20:11:56 something that is made complex for the sake of complexity 20:12:02 Ah ok. 20:12:18 http://bumblebeeware.com/images/rubegoldberg.gif 20:12:37 lol 20:12:44 soupdragon: yeah that picture looks like haskell 20:13:06 I don't know that Haskell or Clojure are taking the right approach to concurrency. 20:13:22 What is Clojure? 20:13:37 pbusser2: really? ;-) 20:13:47 peter_12: What? 20:13:49 'the right approach' don't exist 20:14:21 Clojure is big reddit feed http://clojure.org/ 20:14:27 it is a lisp on the Java VM 20:14:37 it is not Common Lisp or Scheme 20:14:43 it doesn't have proper tail calls 20:14:47 why it is not common lisp idk 20:14:50 it has transactional software memory 20:15:07 soupdragon: you mean you think it should be common lisp? 20:15:21 I don't see why not 20:15:29 it's lisp-1 20:15:32 I can guess why not though 20:15:41 soupdragon: marketing 20:15:49 Oh, I see. It is Lisp for the JVM. 20:17:36 What I have seen from CL so far, it looks kinda messy. 20:17:46 no 20:17:51 pbusser2: yes. very. 20:18:59 I guess it is no coincidence that it has the C in common with another messy language. :-P 20:19:54 I think I will always like C at least as an idea 20:20:15 -!- HG` [n=wells@xdslea209.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:20:18 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@95-24-220-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:21:05 I didn't say that C is completely without merrit. 20:21:10 easy4 [n=easy4@c-68-45-192-148.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:21:41 bleehh 20:22:49 It's just that it is annoying that you have to do a lot of extra work in C, even though the return on investment is often relatively low. 20:23:22 Especially because it is difficult to implement proper abstractions in C. 20:25:36 Anyways, I'm gone. 20:25:37 *pbusser2* & 20:26:23 Whoa! Chibi Scheme is not so small! The garbage collector is huge! 20:27:00 I've seen that collector before. It is a mess of system-specific hacks 20:28:43 It's the Boehm-Weiser GC. It's fairly common. 20:29:05 It is full of system specific hacks, but it's common enough to be well-supported. 20:35:49 cky [n=cky@cpe-024-211-255-155.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:40:09 peter_12: Hey, it is the first release! Foof is working on a new GC right now. 20:40:16 Anyways, I'm off for real now. Good night! 20:40:17 *pbusser2* & 20:42:18 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.102.130.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:58:36 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:00:32 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 21:19:08 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 21:35:05 npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:38:40 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:41:36 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:42:40 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 21:48:04 Daemmerung [n=goetter@64.146.161.228] has joined #scheme 21:50:51 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-26-100.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:59:40 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 22:04:01 saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 22:04:15 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-26-100.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 22:06:29 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:07:19 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #scheme 22:12:59 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:17:50 incubot: The launch of space shuttle Endeavour has been cancelled due to a hydrogen leak. 22:17:54 I can write C using emacs while eating potatoes... but hopefully the result won't be used on a space shuttle. 22:22:59 -!- npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:23:03 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:24:10 incubot: Hopefully nothing you say or do will be used on a space shuttle. 22:24:14 except hopefully you'll reach a decision point where you ditch 'doze :) 22:26:09 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@75.68.42.94] has joined #scheme 22:40:32 foof, it sounds as though you are implementing a bug in Chibi-Scheme known as a `conservative garbage collector'. 22:43:51 Hrm, what Schemes implement conservative garbage collection? 22:44:35 he is working on rectifying it; see his blog entry at http://synthcode.com/blog/2009/06/Garbage_Collection 22:44:36 What characterizes a garbage collector that is conservative? 22:44:55 synx, a conservative garbage collector assumes that any datum that looks like a pointer is a pointer. 22:45:25 gnomon_ [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 22:45:31 Ah... that could be problematic 22:45:45 The blog entry explains somewhat too. 22:45:46 Thus integers that happen to look like pointers can be misinterpreted as pointers, preventing unreferenced storage from being reclaimed. 22:46:59 The converse problem is not following some pointers; this is more often called a bug than following non-pointers, but both are just as much bugs. 22:49:09 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-109-2-157.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:50:34 -!- mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:52:24 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 22:52:45 -!- elias` [n=c@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:56:41 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 22:56:56 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:57:03 -!- gnomon [n=gnomon@CPE001d60dffa5c-CM000f9f776f96.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:59:47 antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #scheme 23:12:24 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B055F6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:22:46 -!- soupdragon is now known as vixey 23:23:11 -!- vixey is now known as soupdragon 23:32:54 -!- raikov [i=6e0140d8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-aa384dcbd9a05c82] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 23:38:59 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs162149.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:39:03 npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 23:49:59 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@f051150148.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leave the magic to Houdini"] 23:51:57 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #scheme 23:54:52 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:46 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 23:57:15 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme