00:08:36 -!- Guest88213 [n=m@dslb-088-066-238-016.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:08:43 -!- neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-029.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:09:15 -!- wingo [n=wingo@116.Red-83-32-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 00:13:17 -!- npe [n=npe@91.179.118.166] has quit [] 00:16:16 karlw: its a start eh! 00:17:14 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.150.236] has joined #scheme 00:18:05 npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 00:23:21 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-69-23-38-57.wi.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 00:29:54 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 00:30:21 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 00:30:36 sladegen: I dunno, there sure are a lot of names listed in the bible. You sure it isn't a phone book? 00:34:08 -!- npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has quit [No route to host] 00:34:38 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.193.219] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:06 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:43:14 incubot: We hope to announce the details in the coming weeks... 00:43:17 Where else can I announce it ? 00:43:47 incubot: http://lists.r6rs.org/pipermail/r6rs-discuss/2009-May/004454.html 00:43:50 this email might be relevant: http://list.cs.brown.edu/pipermail/plt-scheme/2003-December/004035.html 00:44:50 incubot: What makes you believe this email might be relevant? 00:44:53 For the purposes of the proposal, specifying the English alphabet within ASCII is a convenient way to specify it portably. Authors of internationalized systems can extend R5RS Scheme _and_ this proposal as they desire, but it's not relevant to the mechanism of #ci/#cs. 00:45:56 incubot: what would we do without you? 00:45:59 at least on linux, creating threads are almost free. if you are using some piece of shit like darwin/mac os x, then any operation on threads can be slow without any good reason 00:46:12 *mejja* is bored 00:51:17 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Success] 00:53:23 *mejja* feels sorry for renee fleming 00:55:32 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:59:10 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:00:06 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:02:48 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 01:10:57 ablaert [n=ablaert@nezmar.jabbim.cz] has joined #scheme 01:11:42 Riastradh: Line 280 in fasl.c is fishy! I don't get how it could ever work. 01:12:14 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 01:14:09 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.150.236] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:26:20 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:33:51 incubot: Mi lusinga il dolce affetto 01:34:20 ruggiero! 01:35:55 Yes! 01:36:05 surely you mean sė! 01:36:44 rudybot: give pumpkin "a bottle of champagne" 01:36:44 mejja: your sandbox is ready 01:36:44 pumpkin: mejja has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 01:36:59 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 01:37:00 pumpkin: your sandbox is ready 01:37:00 pumpkin: ; Value: "a bottle of champagne" 01:37:03 yay 01:37:04 thanks 01:37:22 rudybot: give mejja "una bottiglia di spumante" 01:37:22 mejja: pumpkin has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" 01:37:35 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 01:37:35 mejja: ; Value: "una bottiglia di spumante" 01:39:27 grazie 01:40:14 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:45:38 -!- karlw [n=karlw@adsl-99-157-202-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #scheme 01:53:06 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has left #scheme 01:53:48 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 01:53:49 X-Scale: your sandbox is ready 01:53:52 rudybot: eval (GRAB) 01:54:00 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 01:54:11 rudybot: give X-Scale 'a-lollipop 01:54:11 X-Scale: mejja has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 01:54:19 X-Scale: retry! 02:02:16 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [] 02:13:46 mejja pasted "for Riastradh: OBJECT_NEW_ADDRESS" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81471 02:23:04 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:28:42 *mejja* recommends http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004NK26 02:29:54 Please make this Grant Rettke guy stop flooding Planet Scheme with off topic posts :( 02:31:09 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has left #scheme 02:38:40 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:39:16 ssttss [i=stepnem@173.19.7.99] has joined #scheme 02:43:05 -!- kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43:32 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:44:48 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 02:45:07 mbishop: as little as those posts are to my taste, I think the fault lies with planet.dk rather than the poster in question. 02:45:31 or scheme.dk. or whatever. 02:46:12 wow, he's a really prolific blogger 02:46:41 -!- ablaert [n=ablaert@nezmar.jabbim.cz] has left #scheme 02:46:59 mejja: baroque opera is a connoisseur's taste 02:47:34 and the nasty-assed Brussels sprouts I cooked tonight are to nobody's taste. I wouldn't have fed them to a dog. 02:51:40 Daemmerung: Ha! I'm voting tomorrow. (fuck brussel) 02:52:15 you mean you are not voting... 02:52:41 klutometis: Thanks, I'll fix it. 02:52:47 *mejja* ..ok it's today 02:53:01 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176212134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:56:32 Daemmerung: I blame you 02:56:36 *mbishop* huffs 02:57:22 klutometis: the order looks fine to me 02:57:30 From srfi-13.txt: 02:57:34 string-filter s char/char-set/pred [start end] -> string 02:57:51 From utf8-srfi-13.txt: 02:57:53 (define (string-filter s filt . opt) 02:58:38 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-178-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 03:00:35 jedc [n=jed1@c-98-232-225-102.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:04:35 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-215-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:05:23 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-1-12.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:08:57 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176216107.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:14:16 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173.19.7.99] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:15:38 foof: is that the bizarro-world srfi-13? 03:15:55 string-filter char/char-set/pred s [start end] -> string 03:16:01 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-13/srfi-13.html#string-filter 03:16:08 and Chicken 3 srfi-13.scm 03:17:28 and Chicken 4 srfi-13.scm 03:22:07 Lectus [n=Frederic@189.105.80.15] has joined #scheme 03:23:36 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 03:26:02 foof: i'm not sure what the pedigree of srfi-13.txt is; i'm going by schemers.org 03:27:26 *offby1* throws his Adult Assurance Personal Hygiene Product at mbishop 03:27:48 -!- mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:28:21 *mbishop* washes it and reuses 03:28:55 incubot: Superman! Can you hear me? Superman! Where are you... 03:30:15 ... Supes? 03:34:34 X-Scale2 [i=email@89.180.212.197] has joined #scheme 03:36:30 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:36:40 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 03:40:46 Scooby Doo... where are you... 03:41:07 -!- X-Scale [n=email@89.180.166.100] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:43:07 incubot: superman? 03:43:10 superman 03:43:19 incubot: that was helpful 03:43:25 yes, i noticed that.. i just didn't use it for too long :( 03:43:31 :( 03:44:56 incubot: am I on your ignore list? 03:44:59 If a UTF-8 decoder encounters an initial octet for a multioctet sequence, followed by an octet that is not formed like a continuation octet, when it substitutes a replacement character, should it consume or ignore the malformed continuation octet? 03:47:58 incubot: It should just raise an error. 03:48:02 eval (raise 123) 03:48:30 zbigniew, klutometis: ah... it seems srfi-13.txt != srfi-13.html 03:49:06 This is disturbing... I have a mirror of srfi.schemers.org and it's faster to look up the text file than the html - I wonder what else is different? 03:49:29 yep, you are absolutely correct -- what are they thinking? 03:50:17 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 03:50:33 The final versions are all in HTML. This is described in the SRFI process document. 03:50:53 Any text files are there only for historical amusement. 03:51:00 -!- bombshelter13__ [n=bombshel@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 03:51:24 I know that, but I figured they'd either revise, or make a note of, or not provide the .txt file if it changed. 03:51:51 aha! 03:52:07 the wrong order is also documented for gauche at http://practical-scheme.net/gauche/man/gauche-refe_108.html#SEC319 03:53:12 for f in ~/doc/srfi.schemers.org/srfi-*/srfi-*.html; do lynx -dump $f > ${f%%.html}.txt; done 03:55:03 .html has no wildcards, so shortest match is no different from longest match. :-P (Sorry, I usually get too lazy to use %% most of the time, so it looks funny to me. :-P) 03:55:58 here we are, folks: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.scheme.srfi.srfi-13/156 03:56:41 SRFI-13 html copy was stealth updated in 2005 without a revision note in the document 03:56:50 incubot: sperber 03:56:53 the release announcement of r6rs will actually contain an attachment called 'sperber_nude.vbs' which, when opened, will delete any r5rs implementation it finds on your drive or the N:, X:, L: or Z: drives 03:57:40 That's pretty disturbing. 03:57:59 How odd is it that that is my quote... 03:58:09 Eh, who uses SRFI 13 anyway? 03:58:32 the next line was 'do not open this attachment no matter how tempting' 04:02:34 *Daemmerung* reaches for the brain-bleach 04:20:14 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:22:01 klutometis: utf8 has been updated 04:23:39 buiutripa [n=buiu@189.71.66.125] has joined #scheme 04:26:47 -!- Lectus [n=Frederic@189.105.80.15] has left #scheme 04:27:17 -!- buiutripa [n=buiu@189.71.66.125] has left #scheme 04:28:49 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 04:38:23 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:50:09 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 04:52:31 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:52:57 Pocket [n=Pocket78@p2169-ipbf1611hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:53:03 -!- Pocket [n=Pocket78@p2169-ipbf1611hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has left #scheme 04:54:36 Pocket [n=Pocket78@p2169-ipbf1611hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:55:01 -!- Pocket [n=Pocket78@p2169-ipbf1611hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has left #scheme 04:56:30 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 04:59:31 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has quit ["Client exiting"] 05:04:58 saccade_ [n=saccade@c-66-31-41-238.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:07:47 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:08:36 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 05:10:40 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:10:52 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:11:39 -!- Cowmoo [n=Cowmoo@207-237-217-78.c3-0.avec-ubr11.nyr-avec.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:15:43 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-176-13-35.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 05:16:03 What does an apply that gets 3 arguments do? (apply func1 func2 list1) 05:16:39 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 05:18:58 That is no different from (apply func1 (cons func2 list1)). 05:19:36 > (apply + 10 '(2 3 4 5)) 05:19:36 24 05:20:03 it seems it uses 10 as first parameter to +, then all the list as rest of parameters 05:20:19 well, what Riastradh said 05:22:04 (apply f e1 e2 ... en) => (apply f (cons* e1 e2 ... en)) 05:22:50 ahh nice thanks 05:25:37 how is cons* different from list? 05:25:44 Try it, Elly. 05:27:33 well, cons* is unbound in PLT scheme 05:27:36 foof, you have a fancy-dancy arithmetic expression simplifier, right? It's past my bedtime, and I'd like to simplify -2 + (2^(floor (k / 2)) * (2 + (k & 1))), or in the S-expression that I'm really dealing with, (- (* (arithmetic-shift 1 (arithmetic-shift k -1)) (+ 2 (bitwise-and k 2))) 2). 05:27:37 I guess that's a difference :P 05:27:53 Elly, load the SRFI 1 module. 05:28:12 remind me how to do that? oO 05:28:19 Read the manual. 05:28:21 I was trying (load (srfi 1)), but that is not right 05:28:24 ah, or I could do that :P 05:29:09 oh, I see 05:29:14 cons* doesn't produce a list 05:29:43 Riastradh: It actually doesn't know any simplifications involving exponents... so you can do low-power polynomials expanding out the multiplications, but it will just leave 2^k as-is. 05:30:46 It was a special-purpose program - it still has a ways to go before becoming a general-purpose symbolic math library. 05:31:17 ooh, I should write an expression simplifier 05:32:46 CONS* does produce a list sometimes, Elly. 05:34:42 hey. is there a paper somewhere that explains how R6RS libraries work especially wrt those "phases" things? the R6RS is really dense about it.. 05:34:53 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 05:35:54 Riastradh: well, if there's a null in the tail position 05:36:29 Mostly they don't work very well, sphex. 05:38:01 oh hey Riastradh. dunno if you remember but I was writing a macro expander and you helped me. sorta gave up on using syntactic closures to support syntax-case. now using the mark/substitution thing from the syntax-case papers and I'm not changing a damn thing until I understand them better. this is just too complicated. heh.. :p 05:38:06 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:38:09 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 05:39:28 but at least I managed to get the destructuring/restructuring code out of the main expander and implement them as macros. the core expander has the API from R4RS's appendix. 05:40:12 I still dont realy understand why would (apply map + '((1 2) (3 4))) gives me (4 6) 05:40:42 Tankado: ((+ 1 3) (+ 2 4)) 05:40:42 Write the application of MAP without APPLY, Tankado. 05:41:02 anyway. phases. is there a simpler way to be R6RS compliant than.. whatever those phases thing are? 05:41:29 Isn't that one thing R6RS was pretty lax about? 05:41:36 Sort of. 05:42:51 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:43:01 I am disappointed that I still don't Actually Know scheme 05:43:30 foof: well, I really can't make sense of it :/ 05:43:59 Riastradh : i know that map takes a function and apply it on any element of the list 05:44:21 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 05:44:39 and i do understand X-Scale its doing ((+ 1 3) (+ 2 4)) i just dont see why 05:45:05 How long have you been learning Scheme, Elly ? 05:45:22 I haven't been learning it, really 05:45:35 I know SML pretty well, but I haven't actually tried to pick up scheme :( 05:46:33 Tankado: (apply proc arg1 arg2 ... args) is the same as (proc (append (list arg1 arg2 ...) args)) 05:46:57 No, it's not. 05:47:02 the elements of the list, rather 05:47:07 I kow, Riastradh 05:47:09 know* 05:47:52 Tankado: R5RS page 32 05:48:17 ok i will go read 05:50:48 yeah it makes more sense i forgot the way map realy works on few lists, thanks 05:51:09 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@c-66-31-41-238.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:51:17 hm 05:51:59 Riastradh: right now my expander is initialized with a make-macro-transformer hook that takes the rhs of define-syntax and returns a transformer. and right now this procedure always make a new expander (with a fresh environment) to expand and evaluate the code. am I on the right track? can I do R6RS with that? 05:52:21 I have free time this summer... I could work through SICP or something. Is SICP good for learning scheme if one already understands functional programming, or is there something better? 05:54:20 sphex, yes, I think so, approximately (modulo for-syntax imports). That's what Scheme48 does, for example. 05:55:09 Elly: I didn't know functional programming, and SICP only introduces mutations in later chapters.. so I found it a bit hard to learn with it. might be easy for you though. :p 05:55:21 Elly: I really enjoyed it. Conceptual and full of insights. There is a nice PDF made out of neilv texinfo version at http://www.scribd.com/doc/15556326/Structure-and-Interpretation-of-Computer-Programs-SICP 05:55:23 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/qsrube 05:55:24 I think it is quite absurd that so much of other R6RS macro expanders waste so much time bookkeeping with phases during the interesting parts of macro expansion. 05:56:20 does someone have the PDF around? scribd wants me to sign up to download it 05:56:38 I have it 05:57:01 care to make it appear somewhere? :P 05:59:14 Sure...let me find it. 06:01:32 Riastradh: ok. looks like a lot of them use the same "expander" and have it deal with multiple phases.. and then have to track the "phases" of identifiers. and that looks like a lot of extra work. but I'm wondering if there isn't a much simpler way (that can still support for-syntax imports) but with "separate" expanders for the different phases. 06:01:48 Yes. Refer to Scheme48. 06:02:30 (If you want to implement the broken semantics that the Indiana camp call `implicit phasing' or something, you'll need to messily associate phases with names, but you don't want to do this anyway.) 06:03:18 Here it goes, Elly. 06:05:38 Riastradh: ok. implicit phasing bad. but can you support R6RS without it? I don't care that much about it being fully compliant.. but I'd hate having to make big changes everywhere later just because of some.. silly design detail I should've done differently. 06:05:43 X-Scale: thanks! 06:05:45 Yes, of course you can. 06:06:03 oh good 06:06:03 Some of the R6RS is broken, but not that part of it. 06:06:25 Well, to be precise: some of the R6RS *mandates* broken behaviour; what it says about phasing, however, merely admits broken behaviour without mandating it. 06:06:40 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:57 R6RS sure doesn't get much love. maybe there should be a community RR6RS project. 06:11:36 Like ERR5RS? 06:12:40 eh. seems pretty nice. 06:13:12 Imma read that. 06:14:58 seems pretty much WIP 06:15:40 I wonder if R6RS mantained that famouse R5RS intro quote: "Programming languages should be designed not by piling feature on top of feature, but by removing the weaknesses and restrictions that make additional features appear necessary." :) 06:15:45 famous* 06:15:48 Riastradh: what do you think of ERR5RS? 06:16:04 I wasn't impressed when I last looked at it, but I didn't have the energy to do anything about it. 06:16:25 So I don't think much about it, in the sense that I have little opinion on it. 06:17:17 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:17:39 R6RS makes me remeber C99 on how to butcher a language in 21 easy lessons. 06:18:16 Riastradh: oh.. shame. I wish you did meth. :p 06:19:08 r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:19:23 -!- r2q2 [n=user@c-24-7-212-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:19:52 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-79-176-13-35.red.bezeqint.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:20:26 X-Scale: but but but.. in-place definitions! 06:20:37 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:21:35 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 06:22:05 -!- cel [n=cel@45.Red-83-40-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 06:22:46 I'm not into the whole R6RS approval scheme...but my feeling is that a lot of "know all be all" kind of guys have invaded the decision process....without a small core of hardcore schemers (like in the past), R6RS seems like a natural consequence. 06:27:43 mehh.. I wish they would have taken R5RS and added first-class environments. and let people build whatever module systems using that. 06:31:24 I might be the only one thinking that though eh. 06:42:55 -!- sad0ur [n=sad0ur@psi.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:45:36 incubot: coming back from buca di beppo, i noticed that my dogs had frozen emacs by commanding it to insert 71469937 effs into the buffer 06:45:39 Scheme's concept of `type' is not isomorphic to ML's or Haskell's. I am not sure why you are commanding me not to use tools that I am perfectly comfortable using and have been for years, but it seems to bear little relevance to the subject at hand. 06:47:51 foof: thanks; 06:52:06 does anyone know offhand how i could get apache to filter all .shtml files through, say, an shtml -> html script? 06:52:39 i have a feeling there's a mod; but i don't feel like messing with buckets and filters 06:54:14 i suppose i could do it with mod rewrite, such that path/document.html gets rewritten to path/converter.scm?doc=document.html 06:55:21 http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_ext_filter.html 06:55:24 beautiful 06:56:01 klutometis: mod_include's pretty quick to setup 06:57:11 sphex: doesn't that have to do with SSI? 06:57:25 how would i do a shtml -> html conversion? 06:59:09 interestingly, apache does have an AddOutputFilter; if one felt like doing shtml -> html in c 06:59:27 alternatively, i wonder if an apache filter could be linked against an .so i had created with chicken, for instance 06:59:27 I thought you wanted SSI. nvm. 07:00:00 sphex: oh, sorry; i meant shtml as in sxml: http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/SXML.html 07:00:08 i now see that SSI has usurped shtml 07:05:18 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 07:05:57 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-150-123.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 07:07:40 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:10:47 kuribas [i=kristof@d54C43689.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 07:23:34 -!- ken-p [n=ken-p@84.92.70.37] has quit [Success] 07:27:05 -!- xomas [n=wakeup@unaffiliated/xomas] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:33:21 ejs [n=eugen@235-198-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 07:34:23 mmc [n=mima@cs141012.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 07:38:05 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 07:49:26 npe [n=npe@91.179.118.166] has joined #scheme 07:56:23 -!- mmc 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[n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:17:26 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.189.152] has joined #scheme 12:39:57 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@95-24-218-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 12:42:25 GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-109-2-157.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:52:10 CarineNocturne [n=nile@zhone-pool1-85.kaplantel.net] has joined #scheme 12:59:11 -!- wingo [n=wingo@230.Red-88-17-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:01:02 jonaskoelker [n=jonas@ip-30-5.bnaa.dk] has joined #scheme 13:01:10 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@084202203236.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #scheme 13:02:24 Hi all. I have three sources of inputs to a stateful computation, and each source has its own state. How do I best express this in scheme? 13:02:56 My thinking: write a function which takes the input and a one-element list (the state); then it can read and update the state as it pleases, and the states can be independent... 13:03:16 in C I'd use a pointer---is there a canonical "pointer knockoff" in scheme? 13:04:27 you could use an object like (define (new-state state) (lambda (message) (case (car message) ((get) state) ((set) (set! state (cadr message] 13:04:52 If the pointer is just an index into the list, you could probably best use a vector in Scheme 13:05:00 You can update those in-place just as easily, too 13:05:41 It's a little difficult to tell without more details 13:06:02 which details? 13:06:39 All of them? :-) 13:07:09 details *about what*? 13:07:16 ;) 13:07:18 To answer your question about a "pointer knockoff", you might want to read about "locatives", which encapsulate a closed-over variable into an object. 13:07:38 does it help to know that the inputs are wiimote/nunchuk/classic-controller button states? 13:07:56 It does 13:08:03 I want figure out what's _just_ been pressed/released, then look up in an alist and run a bunch of hooks... 13:08:20 You could just store their state in a variable per button, or use a vector like I said before 13:08:23 which (assuming "normal" user configuration) will then call xtest functions to fake x events... 13:08:46 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A07B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:09:47 Or, I could store them in an integer and do whole-vector operations easily (and, or, flip, ...) 13:10:52 I'm not quite following the discsussion. Can you explain what you're having difficulty doing in a functional style? 13:11:55 passing a [writeable reference to a variable] to a function 13:12:09 Oh, you want to do it in a functional style? 13:12:09 but http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?SinisterSchemeSamplePerplexesPythonPorter will probably do the trick 13:12:22 it doesn't feel functional to me... 13:12:50 Why doesn't it? That's what I'm trying to get at. 13:13:23 I'm not quite sure I understand what you're trying to write, so I'm not following why it can't be done in functional style. 13:13:45 I'm not sure why it doesn't feel functional to me 13:13:51 perhaps we're using different dictionaries? :) 13:14:01 While Scheme certainly allows you to use imperative style if you wish, generally things are done functionally unless there's a reason not to. 13:14:05 Hm? 13:15:04 I have a Wii, so I got the bit about Wiimote button states. Beyond that, I couldn't tell where you needed to use mutation to do what you're trying to do. 13:16:30 Here's the C'esque pseudo-code: pressed = now & ~last; released = last & ~now; last = now; go_have_fun_with(pressed, released); 13:16:43 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@e179090239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:16:48 it's the "last = now;" step that was bugging me 13:17:33 mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 13:17:35 OK. I'm starting to understand a bit better. "last" is the previous button-pressed bitmap. 13:17:42 "now" is the new one. 13:17:42 yep 13:17:44 yep 13:18:17 If this is in a loop, you probably just want to make the previous state an argument to the loop entry 13:18:51 it isn't, I have a bunch of hooks that are called whenever a wiimote event happens 13:18:52 (let loop ((last last-state)) (let ((now (calculate-new-state))) ... (loop now)) 13:19:15 ic 13:19:28 but otherwise a good idea :) 13:19:44 Can you give me an idea of how those hooks are called? 13:20:50 Captain Hook and Peter Hook his evil nephew. 13:20:56 :D 13:20:59 Naievely, I'd assume that I have a hash of Wiimote id to current button state; when I receive a button changed event, I'd get the previous value from the hash table, then update the table when I'm done. 13:21:25 there's a C thread calling the C wiimote callback function, which then enter guile. The scheme hook functions are added in a startup script that's loaded pre-wiimote-connection 13:25:38 mngbd [n=user@81.3.214.196] has joined #scheme 13:25:51 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 13:29:00 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:29:08 jonaskoelker: As an alternative, you could consider writing your Guile code as a coroutine to your C, using continuations. 13:31:15 interesting idea... 13:31:24 I can see how it makes sense 13:36:23 Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@host178-110-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 13:37:01 Yay, I got it to work the way I want :) 13:37:33 thanks for the help, everyone (chandler, sjamaan, sladegen, soupdragon) 13:38:14 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 13:40:03 -!- GreyLensman [n=ray@c-76-109-2-157.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:41:24 kandinski [i=kandinsk@rowrcolo.net] has joined #scheme 13:46:40 Judofyr_ [n=Judofyr@c2391BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 13:47:12 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-100-7.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:47:22 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-28-252.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 13:52:33 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 13:59:53 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:03:48 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@084202203236.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:06:57 -!- rstandy [n=rastandy@net-93-144-8-226.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:07:59 rstandy [n=rastandy@93.144.76.212] has joined #scheme 14:08:43 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-177.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 14:08:52 reprore__ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:08:59 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:13:03 -!- erg [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:13:03 -!- Def [n=joe@c-71-238-45-45.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:13:03 -!- bohanlon [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:13:03 -!- sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 14:21:32 ttn [n=user@host215-67-dynamic.30-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 14:23:00 -!- mngbd [n=user@81.3.214.196] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:34:25 mmc [n=mima@cs141012.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 14:35:10 -!- eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-150-123.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:39:27 -!- soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:39:52 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@TUBERIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 14:39:52 Def [n=joe@c-71-238-45-45.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:39:52 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #scheme 14:39:52 erg [n=erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 14:39:58 soupdragon [n=f@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:40:13 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 14:40:43 -!- Judofyr_ is now known as Judofyr 14:51:24 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057410.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 14:51:42 demanotto_ [n=chatzill@KD210230163150.ec-userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 14:52:03 -!- ttn [n=user@host215-67-dynamic.30-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #scheme 15:07:48 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:15:56 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 15:17:25 I have a very noob question: why are (cons 1 (cons 2 3)) and (cons 1 (list 2 3)) different? (I am using plt-r5rs) 15:17:52 I thought consing elements together was the way to build a list 15:18:13 it is, but ... 15:18:17 rudybot: eval (cons 1 2) 15:18:18 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 15:18:18 *offby1: ; Value: (1 . 2) 15:18:21 rudybot: eval (list 1 2) 15:18:21 *offby1: ; Value: (1 2) 15:18:34 rudybot: eval (cons 1 (cons 2 ' ())) 15:18:34 *offby1: ; Value: (1 2) 15:18:49 aha 15:18:53 (list a b c ...) is shorthand for (cons a (cons b (cons c ... ' ()))) 15:19:35 literal empty list for an end 15:19:37 thanks! 15:19:54 offby1: The space after the quote, is that just a habit from elisp (from way yonder), or for some other reason? Curious. :-P 15:20:15 typo :) 15:20:19 Hehehehe. 15:21:31 thanks a lot, offby1. this was in conection to footnote 19 in p 122 of SICP, so back to study I go 15:21:34 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs141012.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:21:41 *kandinski* gives offby1 a lollypop 15:23:18 (My comment about elisp relates to a serious WTF moment I had, when I noticed that in old Emacs versions, there is no built-in support for: ` , or @. Instead, think of them as aliases of Scheme-like quasiquote, unquote, and unquote-splicing. i.e., rather than writing `(foo ,bar), you had to write (` (foo (, (bar)))) or something like it. (Riastradh can probably say more, having written a whole elisp module and all.) 15:24:22 *or @, 15:24:46 ,@ even. 15:25:01 (Goes to show I never use unquote-splicing.) 15:25:14 cky: how old?! 15:26:09 Lemme check. 15:26:27 I saw some compatibility code in erlang-mode.el, which had that stuff in it. 15:29:08 elisp.info, section Backquote, said that in Emacs versions before 19.29, this was required. 15:29:53 (Incidentally, in testing, `(foo ,bar) should actually be written (` (foo (, bar))) in such old versions.) 15:34:39 -!- reprore__ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:39:07 npe [n=npe@91.179.118.166] has joined #scheme 15:41:14 *eli* registers another SICP victim on the SICP VICTIMS board 15:43:56 And BTW, in Emacs 19 , was just a symbol. 15:45:19 eli: Exactly. 15:45:27 It's, just, nuts. 15:46:04 wow 15:47:29 In any case, spaces would be needed only in obscure cases, like defining \, as an unquote equivalent, 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19:30:28 -!- ejs [n=eugen@218-38-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:30:51 kniu [n=kniu@pool-71-107-56-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:34:24 -!- Def [n=joe@c-71-238-45-45.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:37:34 mike_ [n=m@dslb-088-066-245-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 19:38:01 -!- mike_ is now known as Guest330 19:45:58 -!- mike_____ [n=m@dslb-088-064-143-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:51:03 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@75.68.42.94] has joined #scheme 20:05:03 just released a little library for plt: http://www.neilvandyke.org/randtok-scheme/ 20:05:55 benny99 [n=benny@p5486DB60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:25 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:09:22 duper- [n=duper@innu.org] has joined #scheme 20:12:33 -!- pumpkin is now known as c0w 20:12:48 -!- c0w is now known as pumpkin 20:15:55 `Antonio` [n=kvirc@92.2.103.152] has joined #scheme 20:17:47 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 20:19:58 -!- dudleyf [n=dudleyf@ip70-178-212-238.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [] 20:30:50 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:34:00 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-8.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 20:35:24 neilv: what does it use that r6rs doesn't provide? 20:37:14 -!- jao [n=jao@211.Red-83-38-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42:49 wingo: not sure. i am taking a break from portability while i move to new tools 20:43:10 understandable 20:43:22 luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has joined #scheme 20:43:29 i am hoping that guile can re-join the portable scheme world soon... 20:43:34 i decided to make plt my "source" language, and make a translator to r6rs and others 20:44:03 before, i was coding r5rs+srfi and repackaging that for various module systems, but that was a pain 20:45:51 you would not prefer r6rs as your source language? 20:46:43 plt is my favorite implementation, and there's so much plt-specific stuff out there 20:47:26 much easier to work from plt's scheme/base rather than use plt's r6rs language 20:48:55 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:49:50 jao [n=jao@197.Red-88-15-115.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:49:52 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 20:49:58 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 20:50:42 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 20:56:31 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs141012.pp.htv.fi] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:00:27 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:02:52 -!- duper`` [n=duper@innu.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:03:12 -!- mngbd [n=user@81.3.214.196] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:03:22 duper` [n=duper@innu.org] has joined #scheme 21:03:23 duper-_ [n=duper@innu.org] has joined #scheme 21:03:31 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:04:31 -!- `Antonio` [n=kvirc@92.2.103.152] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 21:13:09 -!- jao [n=jao@197.Red-88-15-115.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:08 -!- duper- [n=duper@innu.org] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:26:35 naunsins [i=charles_@120.138.100.243] has joined #scheme 21:27:51 -!- benny99 [n=benny@p5486DB60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:28:36 -!- naunsins [i=charles_@120.138.100.243] has left #scheme 21:32:51 -!- npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 21:34:07 npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 21:41:16 -!- incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:42:34 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:46:20 incubot [i=incubot@klutometis.wikitex.org] has joined #scheme 21:53:23 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 21:55:26 dsmith [n=dsmith@cpe-173-88-196-177.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:57:23 -!- npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has quit [No route to host] 22:01:36 neilv: That's a neat idea. Thanks! 22:02:11 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057410.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:04:17 I wish plt had some kind of SASL support. That and TLS negotiation. 22:05:39 if you know a company that is willing to pay for such a thing, i know a consultant who would love to implement it :) 22:06:46 cel [n=cel@45.Red-83-40-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:06:52 night :) 22:07:16 ikaros [n=ikaros@e179090239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 22:07:29 neilv, why a string and not a character set? 22:08:55 Riastradh: i thought a string was adequate, but i didn't actually remember character sets 22:09:12 What happens if I pass a string with duplicate characters? 22:09:38 just increases the probably frequency of those characters 22:09:40 probable 22:10:03 it's a very simple function 22:12:11 one could use srfi14 char-set->string 22:15:08 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:16:41 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 22:18:16 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-3-8.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:19:35 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-134-4-124.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 22:34:47 jcowan [n=jcowan@72.14.228.89] has joined #scheme 22:40:11 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@e179090239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leave the magic to Houdini"] 22:45:04 -!- dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:45:21 dnm_ [n=dnm@c-68-49-46-251.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:55:20 aleix [n=aleix@46.Red-83-61-3.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:55:45 -!- aleix [n=aleix@46.Red-83-61-3.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:15 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:59:15 -!- Guest330 [n=m@dslb-088-066-245-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:05:06 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:05:30 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 23:09:38 -!- Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:11:14 Adrinael [n=adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #scheme 23:11:15 emmy [n=45c8ed67@gateway/web/flash/eris.tuxhacker.org/x-a180228ffe3b029c] has joined #scheme 23:12:16 -!- Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:14:51 Deformative [n=joe@c-71-238-45-45.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:30:15 -!- wingo [n=wingo@73.Red-83-32-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:41:49 Poeir [n=Poeir@c-98-222-133-165.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:56:15 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"]