00:00:00 -!- aack [n=user@a83-161-214-179.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:05 -!- Mr_SpOOn [n=Mr_SpOOn@93-42-84-226.ip85.fastwebnet.it] has quit ["leaving"] 00:07:47 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:13:01 garyfromdaparty [n=b00t@190.75.202.80] has joined #scheme 00:15:47 dysinger [n=tim@67.97.90.194] has joined #scheme 00:16:34 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@95-25-197-137.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:17:25 pantsd [n=hkarau@69-165-134-121.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 00:23:16 dudleyf [n=dudleyf@ip70-178-212-238.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #scheme 00:23:42 -!- garyfromtheparty [n=b00t@190.75.202.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:34:04 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:45:07 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:45:34 foof: Sorry, did you say you can't get Xfig to work on Mac OS X? 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02:29:46 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-2-150.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:31:48 Riastradh annotated #81330 "summary of results" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81330#3 02:32:03 eli, also, there is a summary of results at the bottom, . 02:32:36 This inquiry is not exclusive to eli, by the way; I am curious to hear anyone's thoughts on the matter. 02:33:26 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 02:36:58 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 02:37:50 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 02:38:10 eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #scheme 02:38:46 -!- eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-135-228.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:39:12 Well, don't all shout out ideas at once! 02:40:28 It occurs to me that since there is no mutation of parameters, only dynamic binding, the difference between the sensible invocation and the naive invocation of DYNAMIC-WIND is immaterial. 02:40:54 Riastradh: Sorry, I'm deep in some debugging, and that's one layer below being deep in writing, so I don't have cycles to spare on anything that requires thinking. 02:41:05 OK. 02:41:20 Riastradh: But one thing that might cause this is that paremeters in plt are not just saved using continuation marks -- 02:42:06 there's a second level of indirection: continuation marks are used to map parameters to `thread-cell's, and these are the primitive containers that have a specific per-thread value. 02:42:42 You're not using threads, but you might see the difference between mapping a continuation to a value and the extra layer that parameters use. 02:42:51 [But that's just a rough guess.] 02:44:09 And PARAMETRIZE affects only the map from parameters to thread cells. But in this case, since there is no mutation of thread cells, it is not obvious to me that the extra layer of indirection will make any difference; each thread cell has only one value ever, if I understand correctly. 02:45:00 (Anyway, this is not important at the moment; it merely struck me as queer. So don't let me distract you if you are working on something important -- that's why I put it up into lisppaste, so that it can be read later by anyone interested.) 02:47:14 Riastradh: Well, I'll mail Matthew if you're interested... 02:47:18 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-202-209.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:47:58 If you think that's the best way to find an answer, I'll mail him myself without troubling you (and cc you if you wish). 02:49:12 dudleyf [n=dudleyf@ip70-178-212-238.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #scheme 02:53:33 eno_ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-135-228.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:54:02 Riastradh: OK -- if you mail the list you might get a quicker reply. 02:54:15 Can I do that without being subscribed? 02:54:23 but most likely Matthew will reply so it won't matter. 02:54:53 Yes, just send your message, I'm the moderator. 02:54:59 OK. 02:55:00 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:55:36 (You can also subscribe to the list and set the mailman option to not get messages from the server.) 03:07:47 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:44 Sent. 03:11:47 Riastradh: It will take some time -- they're graylisting. 03:11:48 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 03:11:53 OK. 03:16:08 -!- dysinger [n=tim@67.97.90.194] has quit [] 03:18:15 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 03:20:45 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has quit ["Client exiting"] 03:24:57 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:25:53 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 03:27:53 -!- gottesmm [n=gottesmm@c023h065.dorm.reed.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:29:40 -!- eno_ is now known as eno 03:31:54 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:34:40 X-Scale2 [n=email@89.180.166.100] has joined #scheme 03:39:08 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:41:57 pumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-105.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 03:41:57 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:42:20 davidad [n=me@RANDOM-NINETY-THREE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 03:48:14 Riastradh: just in case you didn't consider it -- an obvious difference between `dynamic-wind' and `parameterize' is that the last expression in the latter is still in tail position. 03:49:14 (There was one time where this lead to a confusing case, which resulted in the current implementation of `call-with-exception-handler' to deliberately prevent its thunk from being called in tail position (that's in "collects/scheme/private/more-scheme.ss").) 03:50:34 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-97.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 03:51:08 -!- X-Scale [i=email@89-180-166-7.net.novis.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:57:18 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 03:58:39 dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has joined #scheme 04:00:50 I don't think that's an issue, eli. What seems really to be the issue is that while the reification of a composable continuation selects only a suffix of the branch of the DYNAMIC-WIND state tree to append to whatever is the current branch when the composable continuation is invoked, it records the entire parametrization state tree. 04:01:20 (That suffix being specifically the suffix from the state at the time of the prompt up to the current state.) 04:06:53 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:07:02 -!- pumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-105.cs.dartmouth.edu] has quit ["Leaving..."] 04:07:11 -!- X-Scale2 is now known as X-Scale 04:07:30 -!- xomas_ is now known as xomas 04:08:23 I don't see any obvious nested tail calls of WITH-PARAMETRIZATION binding the same parameter in my TEST procedure. 04:10:30 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:11:08 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 04:13:22 In fact I don't think that it is possible to slip that up with parameters, since there is no way (of which I am aware) to list all dynamic bindings of some particular parameter, as there is with a continuation mark (assuming that PARAMETRIZATION-KEY is not exposed). 04:14:19 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:15:03 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:15:50 pumpkin [n=pumpkin@Aeropuerto.Kiewit.Dartmouth.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:17:58 Riastradh: I think the distinction is when you use plt threads... parameters cannot be changed on the spot by other threads, only by each thread itself. But a variable set! in a dynamic wind could be changed by another thread in the middle of the body. 04:18:46 Yes -- but there are no threads involved here. 04:19:42 In case you missed the earlier lisppaste and discussion, here's the message I sent to the PLT Scheme mailing list: . 04:20:25 Riastradh: what do you mean by "parametrization state tree"? 04:23:12 Well, to be precise, I meant the dynamic binding part of the state tree. The set of dynamic states a program can be in forms a tree. At each point in the tree there is a set of dynamic bindings. The parent/child edges have associated DYNAMIC-WIND in/out thunks. CWCC remembers the current state point; to throw, one traverses the state tree, up from the current point to the nearest common ancestor down to the target point. 04:23:41 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 04:24:34 My understanding is that CALL-WITH-COMPOSABLE-CONTINUATION records not the current state point, but every part of the path from the nearest prompt to the current state point. Then invoking a composable continuation has the effect of appending that path to the current state point. 04:24:50 (I want a blackboard. Phooey.) 04:26:00 Considering only DYNAMIC-WIND in/out thunks, this hypothesis is confirmed by my TEST procedure. 04:27:01 But the set of dynamic bindings does not behave in the same way: invoking a composable continuation restores *all* dynamic bindings at the point when CALL-WITH-COMPOSABLE-CONTINUATION was invoked, even those that were made higher in the state tree than the prompt used to reify the composable continuation. 04:27:25 At least, this is my hypothesis, which is also confirmed by my TEST procedure. 04:29:20 What I expected was that composable continuations would remember dynamic bindings in the same way as DYNAMIC-WIND in/out thunks, so that (barring issues of tail positions, threads, and lower-level continuation mark introspection) one could implement parameters in terms of DYNAMIC-WIND. This is not what I observed, though. 04:30:16 Riastradh: There's also `current-parameterization' -- sounds like that might be related to this. 04:30:25 I hope what I have said is clear -- this is hard to describe without diagrams of trees. 04:30:48 (But all of these are just guesses, since I didn't even traced the code...) 04:32:28 Brief summary of the code: two parameters, A and B. A is bound to something during CALL-WITH-CONTROL-PROMPT and CALL-WITH-COMPOSABLE-CONTINUATION; B is bound to something only for the latter. The composable continuation is invoked outside of the bindings of each of these. I expect only B's binding to be captured by the composable continuation, but it also capture's A's. 04:33:28 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:33:37 If I substitute DYNAMIC-WIND points for dynamic bindings, however, the composable continuation does capture only B's point, not A's. 04:34:00 -!- garyfromdaparty [n=b00t@190.75.202.80] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:41:20 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:41:43 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 04:44:14 -!- pantsd [n=hkarau@69-165-134-121.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:45:10 pantsd [n=hkarau@69-165-134-121.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 04:45:47 Riastradh: OK -- I'm lost then. I did try a quick experiement -- instead of `parameterize' I used `dynamic-wind', with using parameters with side effects, and the result is the same as your boxes, so it seems that this is somehow due to the implementation of `parameterize'. 04:46:30 Yes, I tested this both with parameters and boxes; as I expected, there is no difference when I'm treating them both as boxes. 04:47:56 In any case, I'll tune out now... 04:48:06 OK. 04:48:23 I'm just short of calling this a bug. I haven't quite yet ruled out that there's something subtle about parameters that I'm missing. 04:48:44 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:49:39 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 04:49:45 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-218.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 04:51:54 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 04:52:06 That's not impossible... 04:55:27 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 05:01:59 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-202-209.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:02:23 eli: is the impossible a subset of the inconceivable? 05:03:02 -!- synthase [n=synthase@74.230.35.217] has quit [No route to host] 05:03:06 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-242-33.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 05:04:19 Rephrase, that's possible. 05:04:53 just wondering whether "that's not inconceivable" is indeed a stronger or a weaker statement 05:07:47 I'm Israeli -- so I just consider "not im-" and "not in-" as cancelling out each other. 05:11:32 I'm speaking a language with Latin elements to it, so I just consider "not im-" and "not in-" as cancelling each other out. 05:12:00 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@75.68.42.94] has joined #scheme 05:13:19 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:13:22 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:15:43 ikaros [n=ikaros@g227086075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:16:41 eli: of course, it's called "litotes"; but which phrase is stronger: "that's not inconceivable," or "that's not impossible"? 05:17:15 i'm assuming that the set of conceivable things and possible things relate to each other in some kind of subset/superset relationship, but maybe that's not the case 05:17:33 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit ["off"] 05:19:23 removing the double negatives, the question is simply whether there is such a relation -- and that gets very quickly to the question of there's something in P that is not in C or the other way -- which means that were in philosophical waters of the kind that I definitely don't have time to think about... 05:20:45 eli: oh, that's too bad; to be philosophical is to be humane; and one should never be so busy that they abandon humanity, even with a toddler ;) 05:26:25 cel [n=cel@45.Red-83-40-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 05:27:16 klutometis: Nah, the toddler is unrelated -- it's work, aka the need to put food on the toddler. 05:27:44 (Deadlines close, debugging, etc.) 05:28:36 And with the other parental unit being on a conference, time has considerably shrunk. 05:30:23 Sl5avka- [i=dabomb69@free.dancing.bot.at.shellium.org] has joined #scheme 05:40:00 -!- Sl5avka- [i=dabomb69@free.dancing.bot.at.shellium.org] has left #scheme 05:40:49 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 05:41:53 morning :) 05:42:49 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 05:43:08 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 05:45:42 -!- davidad [n=me@RANDOM-NINETY-THREE.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:52:44 underspecified_ [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-233.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 05:53:39 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057A31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 05:54:50 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@g227086075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Leave the magic to Houdini"] 05:56:57 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:57:37 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 06:02:19 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-48-246.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:02:42 tessier [n=treed@unused-105-40-113.ixpres.com] has joined #scheme 06:07:09 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057A31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:11:32 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-74-28.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 06:15:06 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:15:28 dysinger [n=tim@12.35.79.2] has joined #scheme 06:16:52 ASau [n=user@host60-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 06:17:38 -!- dysinger [n=tim@12.35.79.2] has quit [Client Quit] 06:21:07 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:23:40 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 06:27:16 jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:28:01 davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-6-158.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 06:33:25 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 06:51:30 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 06:52:01 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 06:52:04 abbe [n=abbe@abbe.is.a.member.of.pirateparty.in] has joined #scheme 06:52:09 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.14.211.43] has joined #scheme 06:53:06 -!- jlongster [n=user@c-68-59-187-95.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:02:28 Riastradh: Did you get the reply? 07:18:39 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 07:21:10 exexex [n=chatzill@85.101.218.157] has joined #scheme 07:30:39 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-233.naist.jp] has quit [] 07:35:04 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.101.218.157] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:46:49 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:53:52 mike [n=m@p54A1D7C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 07:54:20 -!- mike is now known as Guest68962 07:54:46 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 08:05:25 -!- m811 [n=user@106.250.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:08:49 HG` [n=wells@85.8.89.88] has joined #scheme 08:11:09 -!- Guest68962 [n=m@p54A1D7C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 08:12:29 lvh [n=lvh@83.101.51.57] has joined #scheme 08:12:32 hi 08:13:32 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:14:45 jewel_ [n=jewel@41.242.134.212] has joined #scheme 08:15:12 rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-168-22.51-151.net24.it] has joined #scheme 08:16:17 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 08:16:56 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:16:56 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 08:19:07 m811 [n=user@106.250.35.213.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 08:23:59 -!- abbe [n=abbe@abbe.is.a.member.of.pirateparty.in] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 08:24:24 `Antonio` [n=kvirc@92.2.124.153] has joined #scheme 08:24:39 *`Antonio`* good morning ! 08:27:43 morning antonio 08:27:50 and all 08:28:09 <`Antonio`> ;) 08:32:49 is it possible to control the movements of a hardware device such as a tripod with a software? 08:33:49 of just with lisp? 08:33:49 or 08:34:49 i meant 08:35:04 think the head of a tripod,acting the way you write in scheme 08:36:04 i couldnt explain it with my terrible english again haha 08:36:59 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 08:37:19 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 08:55:44 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 08:55:47 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-121-9.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 08:56:12 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:57:45 etoxam [n=||||||||@84.79.67.254] has joined #scheme 09:04:21 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 09:04:58 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.128.14] has joined #scheme 09:05:43 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:06:51 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 09:08:34 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 09:12:03 mib_htqyae22 [i=516dfdc8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0358b996ec371402] has joined #scheme 09:12:49 -!- mib_htqyae22 [i=516dfdc8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0358b996ec371402] has quit [Client Quit] 09:13:57 "Our big ideas are not like your big ideas." 09:14:37 What kind of of a marketing idiot thinks that telling people that they're morons is good advertising? 09:14:43 s/of of/of/ 09:22:46 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 09:23:04 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:36:14 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@41.242.134.212] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:37:26 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 09:38:16 -!- lvh [n=lvh@83.101.51.57] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:38:28 lvh [n=lvh@83.101.51.57] has joined #scheme 09:44:05 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176211224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Client exiting"] 09:46:10 AllNight^ [n=nobody@ai-core.demon.co.uk] has joined 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[n=dudleyf@ip70-178-212-238.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [] 12:58:08 nijh2s [n=ngxy@p7025-ipbfp1601fukuokachu.fukuoka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:58:58 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 12:58:59 -!- nijh2s [n=ngxy@p7025-ipbfp1601fukuokachu.fukuoka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 12:59:01 -!- raikov [i=6e0140d8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f26c40720d7d8b9f] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 13:00:21 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 13:11:34 -!- Arelius [n=indy@64.174.9.113] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:16:23 -!- rjack [n=rjack@adsl-ull-168-22.51-151.net24.it] has quit ["leaving"] 13:38:11 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-111-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:39:25 metasyntax|work [n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 13:44:36 cracki [n=cracki@46-203.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 13:45:59 dudleyf [n=dudleyf@65.243.31.107] has joined #scheme 13:51:22 bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has joined #scheme 13:52:13 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 13:58:16 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-218.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:58:30 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-129-37.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:03:43 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 14:07:04 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 14:09:07 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.14.211.43] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:11:06 yeah eli what's the big idea?? 14:12:19 synx: What? The advertising blurb? 14:12:50 Whatever it is, it's not like my big idea. 14:14:31 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 14:15:15 It's extreme arrogance -- you're supposed to sit there and understand that whatever big ideas you think you have, they pale in comparison to the demigods that work at Intel and were gracious enough to share the wealth with the masses. 14:15:31 ...and that's supposed to make you go out and buy more intel. 14:16:16 That whole commercial would look and feel exactly the same if the punch line was "Intel. We're smarter than you, and we know it." 14:16:32 Successful marketers don't have to convince the customer to buy the product. They have to convince the seller that the customers will buy the product. 14:16:57 langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has joined #scheme 14:17:09 I'd say that Intel was sold on that ad campaign pretty well. 14:18:27 OK, so in that case the idiots are the intel managers that agreed for this campaign. Either way there *are* some extreme idoits involved in that stupidit. 14:19:20 -!- hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:20:03 BTW, while I googled that, I saw this amuzing advertisement they had in the past: http://gizmodo.com/285278/intel-apologizes-for-insulting-sprinter-ad 14:24:16 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 14:26:21 hosh [n=hosh@c-71-199-176-82.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:27:14 eli, yep, I got the reply. 14:34:47 mejja [n=user@c-87bae555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 14:38:08 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.200.237] has quit [] 14:38:08 ikaros [n=ikaros@g227089227.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 14:50:18 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 14:50:19 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-242-33.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:50:31 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-241-65.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 14:55:39 leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.200.237] has joined #scheme 14:57:06 Huh I wouldn't have even guessed that sprinter was black. 14:58:20 -!- cracki [n=cracki@46-203.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["If technology is distinguishable from magic, it is insufficiently advanced."] 14:59:52 Yeah yeah... 15:01:59 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 15:02:47 alaricsp_ [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 15:03:16 -!- ASau [n=user@host60-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["off"] 15:04:45 Golly. 15:05:16 My, she was yar 15:05:35 eli, without thinking hard about this, does it strike you that (parametrize (((make-parameter 'a) 'b)) ...) should have any observable effect on the state of the world (modulo allocation of memory, time, &c.)? 15:06:24 HG` [n=wells@85.8.89.88] has joined #scheme 15:07:58 Riastradh: Sounds like a case for making it closer to be considered a bug. 15:09:53 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 15:09:57 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:14:03 eli, there are two different issues, actually. One of them I am immediately inclined to call a bug (that the above PARAMETRIZE could have an observable effect on the state of the world). The other is what I described last night, how composable continuations interact differently with DYNAMIC-WIND and PARAMETRIZE; and that could be a matter of intent, i.e. it could be a misfeature or a bug. I'm writing up a message demonstrating 15:15:18 ... demonstrating how even in the 21st century, one's IRC client still truncates long messages 15:15:34 ...demonstrating how just a little naivete with this can lead to disastrous results. 15:16:06 (The naivete, of course, is the assumption that DYNAMIC-WIND and PARAMETRIZE points are treated analogously by composable continuations.) 15:17:25 Riastradh: OK. (FWIW, (1) I'm not sure if such an assumption is popular, and (2) as tired as I was last night, I still didn't sleep, so even less cycles now.) 15:17:47 OK. Anyway, I'm about to send a reply. 15:18:30 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:18:46 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.200.237] has quit [] 15:22:57 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 15:23:14 leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.200.237] has joined #scheme 15:25:15 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:28:34 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:28:41 -!- offby1 [n=user@pdpc/supporter/monthlybyte/offby1] has quit ["Savannah is back; time to reboot emacs"] 15:29:21 -!- alaricsp_ [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:29:24 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 15:30:44 naunsins [i=charles_@120.138.100.36] has joined #scheme 15:33:12 -!- naunsins [i=charles_@120.138.100.36] has left #scheme 15:33:16 naunsins [i=charles_@120.138.100.36] has joined #scheme 15:37:14 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.200.237] has quit [] 15:43:25 peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #scheme 15:43:33 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@S010600119506b129.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:44:22 leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.200.237] has joined #scheme 15:46:48 -!- naunsins [i=charles_@120.138.100.36] has left #scheme 15:47:21 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 15:48:27 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:52:37 nan8 [n=user@88.65.168.33] has joined #scheme 15:52:56 is there a "builtin" for (define (proper-pair? x) (and (pair? x) (not (pair? (cdr x))))) ? 15:53:27 rudybot: eval (list? ' ()) 15:53:28 *offby1: your sandbox is ready 15:53:29 *offby1: ; Value: #t 15:53:32 rudybot: eval (list? ' (1)) 15:53:32 *offby1: ; Value: #t 15:53:36 rudybot: eval (list? ' (1 2 3 4)) 15:53:36 *offby1: ; Value: #t 15:53:40 rudybot: eval (list? ' (1 2 3 4 . ())) 15:53:40 *offby1: ; Value: #t 15:53:46 rudybot: eval (list? ' (1 2 3 4 . snord)) 15:53:46 *offby1: ; Value: #f 15:54:08 nan8: I'm guessing "no". 15:54:09 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-111-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:55:29 -!- npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:58:30 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 16:00:03 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 16:01:09 elias` [n=me@host86-141-109-194.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #scheme 16:03:04 nan8 : so `(proper-pair? (list 0))' should evaluate to true ? 16:04:31 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.197.178] has joined #scheme 16:04:40 dysinger [n=tim@12.35.79.2] has joined #scheme 16:07:38 ski: no 16:08:39 ? 16:09:03 rudybot: eval (define (proper-pair? x) (and (pair? x) (not (pair? (cdr x))))) 16:09:10 rudybot: eval (proper-pair? (list 0)) 16:09:10 ski: ; Value: #t 16:09:19 ski: my fault 16:09:37 (define (proper-pair? x) (and (pair? x) (or (pair? (cdr x)) (null? (cdr x))))) 16:10:20 in that case, i think i would think it more natural to call this procedure `improper-pair?' rather than `proper-pair?' 16:11:31 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:13:03 Peaker [n=Peaker@87.69.176.150] has joined #scheme 16:14:42 (the idea was that this is a pair that is an improper list (ignoring that improper lists may be cyclic) .. given the issue on possible cyclicness, as well as pairs may have nothing to do with lists (improper or otherwise), it might be that `improper-pair?' isn't that good a name either) 16:17:08 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has left #scheme 16:18:11 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@24-107-112-153.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 16:19:54 lolcow [n=lolcow@196.210.200.237] has joined #scheme 16:19:57 -!- lolcow [n=lolcow@196.210.200.237] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:22:48 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196.210.200.237] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:23:11 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 16:25:21 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:28:43 I wonder why pipermail does such an amazingly bad job of threading. 16:29:18 mrscheme [n=user@67.110.140.180.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #scheme 16:30:02 -!- nan8 [n=user@88.65.168.33] has left #scheme 16:30:46 hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-121-9.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 16:33:20 -!- hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-121-9.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:37:40 -!- pumpkin [n=pumpkin@Aeropuerto.Kiewit.Dartmouth.EDU] has quit [] 16:42:36 -!- Axioplase [n=Pied@p1047-ipbf902aobadori.miyagi.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["/quat"] 16:45:30 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 16:53:58 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:54:18 -!- antoszka [n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit ["+++ killed by SIGSEGV +++"] 16:54:33 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 16:54:46 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:54:50 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@g227089227.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:55:42 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 16:58:08 -!- Mastoco [n=user@a88-115-8-123.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:01:36 OK, so in that case the idiots are the intel managers that agreed for this campaign. Either way there *are* some extreme idoits involved in that stupidit. 17:01:51 either that or they're not american, and ignorant of the rascism card 17:04:38 -!- Peaker [n=Peaker@87.69.176.150] has left #scheme 17:04:44 I say that because I have three friends that work at intel/marketing, all whom are chinese 17:05:29 erm, intel customer relations/marketing that is 17:07:08 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:08:02 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057A31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:10:38 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 17:11:53 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:53 the starting stance indicates a sprint distance... 17:14:38 http://gizmodo.com/285278/intel-apologizes-for-insulting-sprinter-ad 17:14:39 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 17:16:38 mike [n=m@p54A1D7C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 17:16:50 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:17:06 -!- mike is now known as Guest72074 17:19:15 foof: Gimp works fine for me on OS X. 17:19:52 (Though this is with the X11 on Tiger, maybe there's an issue with Leopard's) 17:20:28 does anyone know how to use the continuation passed in plt's exn:break exception? 17:20:31 synx pasted "can't continue" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/81367 17:21:11 I tried a simple example like that, but haven't had luck. 17:22:32 It says I can't jump into an escape continuation. 17:23:21 Riastradh: a "naïve user such as yourself"? Puh-leez. 17:26:16 -!- Guest72074 [n=m@p54A1D7C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 17:26:19 heh! 17:26:21 link please! 17:26:43 What? Can't I be naive once in a while? 17:27:04 I think not, no. 17:27:11 Oh. 17:27:20 I think that's in your contract somewhere. 17:27:27 :) 17:27:27 sjamaan: 17:27:32 ty 17:29:40 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:30:27 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 17:30:34 nice gollum reference 17:31:53 There was actually a grain of nondisingenuosity there: only by thinking about something unrelated to DYNAMIC-WIND and PARAMETRIZE, and unrelated even to the semaphore and parameter involved, might I recognize the problem that the recursive mutex implementation exhibits. 17:32:07 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:32:51 (In other words, there was an important merit to my being disingenuous, and therefore I was being antimetadisingenuous, or something like that.) 17:33:37 nondisin...... 17:33:39 If I never thought naively about anything, I'd never notice easy errors like this. 17:34:08 Follow? 17:35:20 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:35:20 Unfortunately, English is only a bastard Germanic language, so I can't make the whole sentence a string of prefixes and suffixes on the word `disingenuous', which would have been fun. 17:35:30 You had me at "What?", Riastradh. 17:37:13 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@195.91.224.225] has joined #scheme 17:40:42 Summary: I'm thinking about mistakes that are easy to make, and generating disastrous consequences from them, so that when you make the same easy mistakes and observe the disastrous consequences you won't have to figure out what happened. 17:44:32 npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 17:44:54 -!- synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-241-65.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:45:14 synthase [n=synthase@adsl-146-254-57.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 17:52:42 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@75.68.42.94] has quit [Operation timed out] 17:58:49 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:02:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:02:40 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@95-24-189-200.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 18:03:11 -!- dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-111-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [" "] 18:08:15 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@75.68.42.94] has joined #scheme 18:08:22 -!- npe [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:08:30 npe [i=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:19:25 -!- neofreak [n=melatoni@ni.fe.up.pt] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:19:29 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@93-97-182-195.dsl.cnl.uk.net] has joined #scheme 18:24:07 neofreak [n=melatoni@ni.fe.up.pt] has joined #scheme 18:25:14 npe_ [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has joined #scheme 18:25:15 -!- npe [i=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:33:10 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:34:36 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:34:48 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@93-97-182-195.dsl.cnl.uk.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:35:33 jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #scheme 18:38:14 ikaros [n=ikaros@g227089227.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 18:47:25 pumpkin [n=pumpkin@dhcp-210-105.cs.dartmouth.edu] has joined #scheme 18:48:53 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 18:56:31 -!- dysinger [n=tim@12.35.79.2] has quit [] 18:59:34 lombard [n=lombard@unaffiliated/lombard] has joined #scheme 19:00:51 -!- neofreak [n=melatoni@ni.fe.up.pt] has quit [""I was part of the turks. But they kicked me out cuz I'm a freakin vampire!! And they don't want vampires in the turks. So th] 19:03:29 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:05:28 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:47 wingo [n=wingo@75.Red-81-39-159.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:13:11 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:18:10 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:23:44 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-2-150.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:26:46 vorpal_ [n=rhunter@athedsl-148084.home.otenet.gr] has joined #scheme 19:27:31 -!- vorpal_ [n=rhunter@athedsl-148084.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:31:51 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@89.167.176.6] has joined #scheme 19:35:56 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@g227089227.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:42:08 -!- wingo [n=wingo@75.Red-81-39-159.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:42:23 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 19:42:54 -!- HG` [n=wells@85.8.89.88] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:16 wingo [n=wingo@130.Red-79-151-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:46:42 ikaros [n=ikaros@f051078033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:48:33 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:50:21 -!- proq [n=user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:58:30 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:59:16 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 20:03:12 incubot: there's this bizarre middle period in life, where action overruns introspection; i wonder if that haze takes us through to senescence, where another kind of hideous introspection awaits 20:03:15 scheme:eval::c:buffer-overruns 20:03:21 heh 20:06:10 proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has joined #scheme 20:07:26 ikaros_ [n=ikaros@g230129191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 20:11:44 -!- ikaros_ [n=ikaros@g230129191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:11:45 iZZy_ [n=ikaros@e179063168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 20:13:15 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@f051078033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:13:15 -!- greg02 [n=greg@ool-18bc79e7.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:13:39 klutometis: you need to get hit in the head more often, you're talking too fancy 20:13:56 not doing enough rugby lately? 20:21:05 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:21:06 mmc [n=mima@cs141012.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 20:22:46 dysinger [n=tim@32.177.13.29] has joined #scheme 20:24:21 Adamant: heh; rugby season just started, as a matter of fact; should have a game in a week or so, and then i'll check back with you 20:24:25 Adamant: how's fencing? 20:32:48 antoszka [n=antoszka@2001:6a0:14a:0:0:0:0:dada] has joined #scheme 20:41:38 vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has joined #scheme 20:44:00 incubot: at times I need a thesaurus to understand klutometis' electronic missives 20:44:03 pattern was nice, I tried dictionary -> thesaurus, but no replies! :( 20:44:31 right, s/thesaurus/dictionary/, perhaps 20:44:57 evenin, schemers 20:45:32 hello, sailor 20:45:52 *gnomon* waggles a tentacle in wingo's general direction 20:45:59 /win go 15 20:47:14 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 20:47:33 ikaros_ [n=ikaros@g227033112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 20:48:44 *wingo* slurps some more wine 20:49:34 A jabber client in scheme would be nifty. I'm currently doing it by having scheme contact a python jabber client over a socket... 20:49:44 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:50:50 minion, advice for synx 20:50:50 synx: #11924: Well, if you don't know what it does, why did you put it in your program? 20:51:29 brilliant that solves all my problems 20:51:56 -!- vorpal [n=rhunter@pdpc/supporter/student/vorpal] has quit ["The incensed priests...continued to raise their voices, vituperating each other in bad Latin"] 20:53:30 jabber's really complicated actually. A decent client would implement SASL, TLS negotiation... plus currently messages are formatted with non-standardized HTML, despite having a strict XML container format. 20:54:36 hmm... actually it might be strict XHTML, now that I look at an example. Not sure... 20:54:51 one would hope it would be valid xml at least 20:55:38 Maybe the python client messes it up or something. I get a bunch of <s and >s in the message body. But pidgin just leaves the < and > 20:56:01 wingo, your optimism is a shining star in this dank, drafty cistern of a world. 20:56:17 hah 20:56:50 XMPP is never valid XML. They require XML to be streamable, and w3.org requires that it isn't. 20:57:04 But if you ignore the tag then yeah it's required to be valid XML. 20:57:36 there must be tls libraries for your scheme 20:57:43 given that even guile has one ;) 20:57:48 that's why I thought it was HTML at first, which can only be transported inside XML documents by somehow escaping it so as not to mess up the document. 20:57:57 -!- iZZy_ [n=ikaros@e179063168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:58:06 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 20:58:47 -!- langmartin [n=user@exeuntcha.tva.gov] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 20:59:15 -!- dudleyf [n=dudleyf@65.243.31.107] has quit [] 20:59:42 I don't really think plt has any tls support... it does have SSL though. 21:00:34 Or SASL for that matter... 21:00:50 Know of no SASL support I mean. 21:01:39 It has HTTP digest authentication though, which is pretty much the same thing right? 21:01:47 -!- mrscheme [n=user@67.110.140.180.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:02:32 *wingo* ignorant, unfortunately 21:02:40 it's a terminal condition, you see. 21:03:14 Not untreatable though. 21:03:47 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:05:23 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.169.224] has joined #scheme 21:18:29 ejs [n=eugen@239-23-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 21:21:25 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.169.224] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:22:38 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.128.14] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:23:57 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.197.178] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:28:30 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057A31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:29:59 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.180.113] has joined #scheme 21:34:42 -!- ikaros_ [n=ikaros@g227033112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:35:16 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:36:10 ikaros [n=ikaros@78.52.120.50] has joined #scheme 21:36:35 klutometis: not doing anything martial right now sadly, trying to save monays 21:39:10 -!- dysinger [n=tim@32.177.13.29] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:42:12 -!- davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-6-158.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:42:16 dudleyf [n=dudleyf@ip70-178-212-238.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:34 -!- ikaros [n=ikaros@78.52.120.50] has quit ["Leave the magic to Houdini"] 21:46:28 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:47:04 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@89.167.176.6] has quit [] 21:47:37 -!- npe_ [n=npe@d54C450C4.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 21:50:48 Adamant: by skimping on health insurance? 21:51:13 klutometis: no, by not paying club or instructor's fees :P 21:51:59 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@89.167.176.6] has joined #scheme 21:52:51 ah ;) 21:53:27 -!- bombshelter13_ [n=bombshel@toronto-gw.adsl.erx01.mtlcnds.ext.distributel.net] has quit [] 21:53:33 skimping on health insurance is a bad idea in general. you can skimp a little bit and only get more catastrophic-style coverage if you're healthy, but healthcare in the US is friggin' expensive and serious illness is REALLY expensive. 21:55:56 yeah; there's a class of hyper-conservative rugby players that are uninsured; or others that take the season off because they can't afford it 21:56:01 what a bizarre state of affairs! 21:56:14 the us is really terrible in that respect. 21:59:47 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Nichts mehr."] 22:01:39 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 22:02:29 wingo: it's not that bad, actually, after you realize that the US has been misclassed as a first-world country; but maybe that's a topic for another #channel ;) 22:02:44 *macros for emulating stack*: I'm writing a DSL in scheme. I want it to be 'forth-like' in that there's an implicit stack, upon which operators act on. Code along the lines of (changes is okay, this is rough idea). (with-stack (load circle) (scale 2.0) (translate 1.0 2.0) (display)) would be ideal 22:02:46 :) 22:03:06 *macros for emulating stack*: I'm writing a DSL in scheme. I want it to be 'forth-like' in that there's an implicit stack, upon which operators act on. Code along the lines of (changes is okay, this is rough idea). (with-stack (load circle) (scale 2.0) (translate 1.0 2.0) (display)) would be ideal --> question: anyone one here done something similar? suggestions for what I should read upon? 22:03:29 -!- ejs [n=eugen@239-23-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:03:35 convert to a kind of CPS, maybe? 22:04:06 it's a similar task to decompiling code for a stack machine into a tree-based IR 22:04:18 I'd like to be able to take muptiple args off the stack / swap args on the stack 22:04:23 I don't see how to do that using cps 22:05:38 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@89.167.176.6] has quit ["Leaving."] 22:05:41 (load circle) -> (lambda () circle) 22:05:58 (scale 2.0) -> (lambda (x) (do-scale 2.0 x)) 22:06:27 though multiple values is not straightforwrd 22:07:14 what does with-stack look like? 22:07:38 load, scale, etc would have to all be macros too 22:10:03 with-stack x y ... => (lambda args (call-with-values (apply x args) (with-stack y ...)) 22:10:09 ) 22:10:27 maybe, anyway 22:10:32 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 22:13:33 i found that kind of thing quite tricky, when writing decompilers 22:13:41 difficult to get right. 22:14:01 at least, without passing around an explicit representation of the stack. 22:16:31 lowlycoder: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/msg/0f77636efc66c932?dmode=source 22:16:34 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/qwl43m 22:16:43 rudybot: thank you 22:16:44 mejja: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 22:17:20 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:17:32 mejja: nice! 22:17:59 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@95-24-189-200.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit ["    (xchat 2.4.5  )"] 22:18:43 Mr-Cat [n=Mr-Cat@95-24-189-200.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 22:21:08 -!- nicktastique [n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:21:19 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-134-212.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [No route to host] 22:21:20 nicktastic [n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has joined #scheme 22:22:10 lowlycoder: http://www.call-with-current-continuation.org/eggs/3/stacktor.html might be interesting for you 22:23:31 -!- `Antonio` [n=kvirc@92.2.124.153] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 22:26:19 whoa 22:26:20 thanks 22:26:53 -!- jlongster [n=user@75-148-111-133-Chattanooga.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:27:26 p1dzkl: also very interesting! 22:29:24 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 22:40:10 -!- lombard [n=lombard@unaffiliated/lombard] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:53:32 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:58:08 _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 22:59:37 p1dzkl: is there an "index.html" of v3 eggs anywhere online? 22:59:56 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] 23:03:21 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:09:27 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176222132.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 23:10:03 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 23:10:31 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 23:13:44 sladegen: http://chicken.wiki.br/eggref/3/index 23:16:27 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-28-224.karneval.cz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:20:34 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 23:20:59 arcfide [n=arcfide@96.38.8.58] has joined #scheme 23:25:24 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176211224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:28:29 attila_lendvai [n=ati@adsl-89-132-2-221.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #scheme 23:32:29 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-121-9.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has left #scheme 23:45:06 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 23:46:32 -!- ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:47:40 ssttss [i=stepnem@173-19-7-99.client.mchsi.com] has joined #scheme 23:50:12 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.180.113] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:56:28 cracki_ [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 23:57:12 -!- _JFT_ [n=_JFT_@modemcable183.11-202-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 23:59:40 p1dzkl: pretty thank you.