00:03:25 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 00:04:58 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-121-172.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 00:09:03 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 00:15:50 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 00:20:38 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:21:28 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 00:30:04 -!- blackened` [n=blackene@ip-89-102-208-138.karneval.cz] has quit [] 00:31:53 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:32:57 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-284828.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:32:57 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:36:21 heh 00:36:32 mzscheme messes with my reflex to use it as a calculator 00:36:47 I fire it up and ask it (/ 2950 313), and it tells me, helpfully, that the answer is 2950/313 00:37:19 and it's true ! 00:37:33 true, but not what I wanted :P 00:37:52 -!- davazp [n=user@56.Red-79-153-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #scheme 00:38:06 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 00:38:38 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-121-172.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 00:40:31 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:42:00 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:42:11 also, this is pretty silly, but is there a way to change the prompt in mzscheme? I'd like it to be a different color 00:44:23 Lilarcor [n=Lilarcor@pool-71-126-184-191.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 00:50:54 that depends a good deal on what prompt you are using exactly. if it's in an emacs shell prompt, you could just customize emacs. or if in a term emulator, the PS1 00:52:29 PS1 is for bash, not mzscheme, isn't it 00:52:30 *? 00:52:50 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 00:52:50 setting PS1 before running mzscheme doesn't change the mzscheme prompt 00:54:05 -!- ventonegro [n=alex@189.100.197.99] has quit [] 00:54:12 right, you would set it in the mzscheme prompt itself, as hackish as that would be 00:54:23 how? 00:55:11 you would have to rebuild mzscheme. beyond that, I couldn't say 00:55:16 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [No route to host] 00:55:22 D: 00:56:10 (it might be that mzscheme has some procedure for changing the prompt. or that might be not the case) 00:56:18 I'm not seeing one... 00:56:59 I personally would go with emacs' shell, and kill three birds with one stone. change the color easily, able to copy and paste from the repl to a file much more easily, etc. 00:57:43 *Elly* frowns 00:57:56 I could hack /usr/lib/plt/collects/readline/pread.ss :\ 00:58:14 the third of course would be exposure to emacs' features 00:58:22 *Elly* is a vim user 00:59:23 *proq* was too until he hacked lisp for a few months 01:00:35 cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:00:40 rudybot: doc current-prompt-read 01:00:40 eli: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/Evaluation_and_Compilation.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._current-prompt-read)) 01:00:45 Elly: There. 01:00:46 -!- bweaver [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:01:11 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:03:11 hm 01:03:19 I don't know how the parameter thing works 01:05:06 Elly: Try this: (current-prompt-read (let ([old (current-prompt-read)]) (lambda () (display "--") (old)))) 01:05:48 current-prompt-read expects no arguments, though 01:06:52 Elly: it's a parameter, with no arguments you get the current value, with one argument you set it. 01:07:03 rudybot: (define p (make-parameter 'blah)) 01:07:03 eli: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 01:07:06 rudybot: eval (define p (make-parameter 'blah)) 01:07:09 rudybot: eval p 01:07:09 eli: ; Value: # 01:07:11 rudybot: eval (p) 01:07:11 eli: ; Value: blah 01:07:15 rudybot: eval (p 'blahblah) 01:07:16 rudybot: eval (p) 01:07:17 eli: ; Value: blahblah 01:07:24 that's weird 01:07:34 > (current-prompt-read (lambda () (display "-> "))) 01:07:34 Weird in what way? 01:07:34 procedure current-prompt-read: expects no arguments, given 1: # 01:08:05 Elly: I don't know how you got that. 01:08:14 *Elly* restarts mzscheme 01:08:18 I get the expected problem: your function does not read anything. 01:08:33 So it gets stuck in a loop displaying the prompt over and over. 01:08:34 oops! 01:08:41 I had redefined current-prompt-read earlier 01:08:48 ...I suspected so. 01:08:58 Did you read the documentation for it? 01:09:19 yep, but I didn't know what the "parameter" notation meant, so I tried defining it 01:10:11 In any case, you should either call the previous value of the parameter (as in my example), or read the input as shown in the doc. 01:10:18 *Elly* nods 01:11:48 aha, nearly there 01:16:10 oh, I am dumb :P 01:16:28 now that I know how parameters work, (current-prompt ...) is the right thing to do 01:17:23 Elly: `current-prompt' is only used by the readline library -- so it is the right thing to do if you do use it. (readline, that is.) 01:18:07 yeah, I am using readline 01:18:46 (current-prompt #"\033[01;35m->\033[00m ") in my .mzschemerc yields a more visible prompt 01:20:00 -!- cads [n=max@c-76-122-89-218.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:22:30 -!- albino [n=albino@69.12.222.214] has left #scheme 01:24:32 -!- bsmntbombdood_ [n=gavin@97-118-134-159.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:25:08 arcfide [n=arcfide@99.186.237.111] has joined #scheme 01:27:33 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 01:27:34 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:29:04 bsmntbombdood_ [n=gavin@97-118-134-159.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 01:30:02 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 01:30:15 geckosenator [n=sean@c-71-237-94-78.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:31:02 -!- Lilarcor [n=Lilarcor@pool-71-126-184-191.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit ["The Lord of Murder Shall Perish."] 01:34:20 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs169102.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:36:34 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:40:40 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 01:41:48 -!- bsmntbombdood_ is now known as bsmntbombdood 01:42:12 hmph... I wish I could require modules in (local) 01:42:57 I just need the module for one little procedure, and the only thing I can do is make an entire second module with only that procedure. 01:43:48 synx: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/package.html 01:45:33 wow uh, okay eli. I was expecting more along the lines of "why don't you suck on it" but if plt wants to be awesome that's okay... :) 01:46:44 sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-25.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:46:56 Well, plt never said that on local modules -- units precede modules, and they can be local. The problem with them is that they're more difficult to use, and they're more powerful in a way that you wouldn't necessarily want. (And modules don't have that extra power too.) 01:48:43 PLT is generally pretty awesome 01:48:44 You still can't require inside a package though. :/ 01:49:47 Usually I find that "1 little procedure" turns into something that really is complex enough to fill a module, so I don't usually need weirdly scoped stuff like two modules in one file. 01:50:28 Just bugs me that it can't be done. I know plt is a grand sight better than many other module systems in terms of their dependance on the filesystem. 01:50:30 *cough*java*cough* 01:52:21 synx: Some Scheme module systems look at module systems as syntactic sugar on top of scoping forms like LET. Others treat them more like core forms that can only occur in some top-levels or such. I understood that PLT modules follow the latter form. 01:53:34 That's true arcfide. 01:54:14 If we call the latter Libraries, designed specifically for characterizing imports and exports (interfaces) between two chunks of somewhat separate units, and we consider the previous as a way of controlling the scope of bindings for situations where you may not necessarily want them to be wholly separate, or whatever, then usually, it is hard to find both forms in one Scheme implementation. 01:55:11 I rather lament that, but a lot of people don't share my enthusiasm for having both forms in an implementation. 01:57:33 synx: It is possible to do a `require' in a way that makes the required values unavailable to your module's toplevel, but that's a little complex to do. 01:58:26 rudybot: later tell jcowan nothing 01:58:26 minion: memo for jcowan: eli told me to tell you: nothing 01:58:27 Remembered. I'll tell jcowan when he/she/it next speaks. 02:01:59 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-121-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:17:13 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-178-84.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 02:18:26 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 02:19:33 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 02:21:00 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 02:25:45 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:26:22 kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:32:35 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:46:06 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.121.232] has quit ["Client exiting"] 02:49:40 amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-6.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #scheme 02:50:26 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 02:50:27 -!- amca [n=amca@CPE-121-208-82-6.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:51:30 tjafk2 [n=timj@85.176.208.145] has joined #scheme 03:07:33 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176214236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:09:46 -!- cipher [n=cipher@pool-173-48-136-239.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:10:04 cipher [n=cipher@173.48.136.239] has joined #scheme 03:24:46 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:37:18 jcowan: ping 03:41:05 pong 03:41:05 jcowan, memo from rudybot: eli told me to tell you: nothing 03:41:27 Well, okay. 03:42:09 jcowan: Joe Marshall said: Tail recursion first existed as `the JSRT hack' in the PDP 1 (even prior to Actors). 03:43:05 jcowan: And Matthias said: In a sense there are really two stories: (1) the compiler optimization; (2) the insight that TCO matters for good coding. 03:43:53 So even if prolog had it early on, it doesn't really matter if they still use it as an optimization (#1) rather than a feature (#2). 03:44:06 (That last sentence is me, not Matthias.) 03:44:39 jcowan: And finally, JRM clarified: 03:45:11 Uh, actually, he said that GLS told him that: 03:45:49 -!- MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has left #scheme 03:45:49 "Our programming style was very much influenced by years of experience with the DEC PDP-6 and PDP-10, whose architecture included "push-jump" and "pop-jump" instructions for using a stack to manage subroutine-call return addresses. A standard optimization idiom was that ... 03:46:12 ... PUSHJ P,MYSUBROUTINE POPJ P, could be shortened to simply JRST MYSUBROUTINE ... 03:46:27 ... where JRST is (for obscure reasons) the favored opcode 03:46:27 for an unconditional jump." 03:51:45 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:55:51 I never did PDP-10 asm programming, but I did do other things on the '10 at U of Penna. 03:57:46 And yes, you never do JUMPA because it's too slow (and you never do JUMP because it means "jump never"). 03:57:51 *offby1* dimly remembers what he referred to as a "DEC-10" 03:58:09 Everybody knows TCO is just a peephole optimization that destroys your stack trace. 03:59:56 offby1: They were all PDPs to me: 8, 11, 10, whatever 04:01:57 *offby1* knew the 8 and the 11! 04:02:03 *offby1* is almost as old as Granpa Jcowan! 04:02:19 Maybe older. 04:02:23 *jcowan* born 1958. 04:02:36 How old Cary Grant? 04:02:43 *offby1* waits 04:02:51 *offby1* drums fingers 04:03:11 aw hell, you don't know that one either? 04:03:15 "Old Cary Grant fine" 04:03:18 Old Cary Grant fine, how you? 04:03:19 *offby1* sulks 04:03:22 hmm 04:03:32 OK, I'll assume those crossed in the ether. 04:03:34 Dorian was munging the KBD: 04:03:38 OH sure. 04:03:40 Blame the bairn. 04:03:45 and that broke the TTY: 04:03:46 Well, I always blame my cat, so ... 04:03:54 otfvp86 vif-8yp fivf6 86i viv i-b[ou'j 04:03:55 nkpm;l' 04:04:01 I do have a cat who visits, named PIP 04:04:13 Last name ATLATL? 04:04:14 ASau [n=user@host162-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 04:04:15 jcowan: That was the replies to what you said about Prolog's LCO being what lead to Scheme's TCO. 04:04:34 Oh, I don't mean in historical line of descent. 04:04:51 I just thought that the WAM was the first systematic use of TCO 04:05:23 ASau` [n=user@host161-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 04:05:45 Well, either historically or philosophically, it looks like a no. 04:06:34 I don't know about WAM though, I really don't remember that stuff. 04:07:25 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-134-159.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:07:34 http://web.archive.org/web/20030213072337/http://www.vanx.org/archive/wam/wam.html is all about the WAM in detail 04:07:45 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/da87vm 04:07:45 but yeah, the WAM wasn't built until 83 although Prolog began in 73 04:07:53 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-134-159.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 04:09:48 The original interpreter was written in Fortran (!) using only arithmetic IFs (!!). 04:09:56 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:11:32 -!- ASau [n=user@host162-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:11:42 ASau [n=user@host162-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 04:12:15 MichaelRaskin [n=MichaelR@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 04:13:31 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:14:02 (define-syntax arithmetic-if (syntax-rules () ((arithmetic-if expr g1 g2 g3) (let ((e expr)) (cond ((= e 0) (go g2)) ((< e 0) (go g1)) (else (go g3))))))) 04:14:44 jcowan: Well, TCO in various forms is much more "obvious" in abstract machines of any kind, since they're usually "executed" by rewriting the whole expression anyway. 04:15:23 *jcowan* isn't so sue. 04:15:26 sure. 04:15:51 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@99.186.237.111] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:16:17 The fact that Planner/Conniver/Scheme control wasn't modeled by Maclisp control was something of a breakthrough at the time. 04:16:24 And it still is, outside the Scheme world. 04:16:29 The stepper in DrScheme uses this in a very directy way: 04:16:56 jcowan@jcowan:~$ lisp 04:16:56 Try abcl, ccl, clisp, cmucl, ecl, sbcl, or Heckle and Jeckle. 04:16:56 jcowan@jcowan:~$ 04:17:27 it presents an algebraic abstract-machine-like representation of the computation, so it TCO becomes very natural by the fact that there is no empty outemost expression that is left to deal with in after the "call". 04:19:40 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:19:49 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 04:19:55 *jcowan* sees which of those CLs is simply (as opposed to properly) tail recursive 04:20:35 answer: ccl, cmucl, sbcl 04:20:39 (ecl is not working for some reason) 04:20:50 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:21:13 saccade [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has joined #scheme 04:21:13 Well, yeah, that's not surprising... 04:21:39 Why precisely? 04:21:45 It's not surprising that abcl fails. 04:22:20 It's not surprising since "Lisp" in general didn't adopt the TCO-as-feature approach. 04:23:32 Right 04:23:44 I was actually surprised that 3 out of 5 *do* implement it. 04:24:21 And to this day one of the basic problems of implementing most "FP" languages on top of most "non-FP" languags is that the control flow of the implemented language cannot be done by a naive translation to the control flow of the implementing language because TCO-as-a-feature is widely adopted by FP languages and widely unadopted by non-FP languages. 04:24:23 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-159-90.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:25:02 [There were enough vagueness points in that sentence that it can just disappear at any moment.] 04:26:13 -!- nA1828KcFz9q [n=morse@cpe-071-065-237-135.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["leaving"] 04:26:44 Just so 04:27:07 -!- kniu [n=kniu@OVERLORD.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:27:13 Although people don't usually think of Prolog as FP-ish. 04:30:42 Well, looks to me like they're not on the FP side in regards to TCO. 04:31:32 Just from quick browsing yesterday, where I've seen two mentions of LCO as an optimization that is not done unless you set the compiler to optimize. 04:33:13 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 04:33:31 Huh. 04:33:44 That may just mean that the opposite of optimize is debug. 04:34:39 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:34:43 *jcowan* notes that the 64-bit .NET VM's JIT does TCO unless it cannot. 04:34:52 http://blogs.msdn.com/davbr/pages/tail-call-jit-conditions.aspx 04:35:26 kniu [n=kniu@128.2.148.72] has joined #scheme 04:35:36 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Bailing out"] 04:35:43 In the view of "non-TCO programmers", TCO *is* on the opposite side of debugging. (CL might do that explicitly in the spec...) 04:37:18 grettke [n=n@CPE-69-23-38-57.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:37:28 hey grettke 04:37:52 Hi Leppie 04:40:43 reprore_ [n=reprore@s208-190.pubnet.titech.ac.jp] has joined #scheme 04:48:15 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:58:46 hah 04:58:56 I found a bug that causes a student kernel to panic after 497 days running 04:59:33 what is a student kernel? 04:59:48 my students have to produce small unix kernels 04:59:55 a student kernel is a kernel written by a student :) 04:59:56 ok 05:00:22 what class? 05:00:30 operating system design 05:00:39 fun 05:00:48 yep :) 05:01:33 huh 497 days isn't a particularly interesting number... not even in seconds it doesn't overflow any size of integer. 05:01:35 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:02:09 there must be something special about it 05:02:21 synx: try intervals of 100 milliseconds :P 05:02:30 (which is what their timer frequency is set to) 05:02:57 I was just zeroing in on that. In 100 milliseconds it pretty much overflows a 32 bit integer in somewhere around 497 days. 05:03:04 yep 05:03:16 Between 497 and 498 at least. 05:03:16 then they try to schedule a nonexistent dummy thread they foolishly put in their sleep queue and panic 05:03:26 Gotta love Y2K 05:05:25 -!- grettke [n=n@CPE-69-23-38-57.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:05:52 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:09:00 mmc [n=mima@cs169102.pp.htv.fi] has joined #scheme 05:21:05 win98 had a simialr bug, it would crash after 49 days 05:21:20 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-80-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 05:21:20 noone expected anyone to run win98 for 50 days... 05:27:58 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 05:28:20 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-197-155-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:29:45 -!- mmc [n=mima@cs169102.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:17 Some people expected 50 minutes and were mostly disappointed 05:31:33 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit ["The funniest things in my life are truth and absurdity."] 05:35:04 dysinger_ [n=tim@ip-64-139-9-115.dsl.sca.megapath.net] has joined #scheme 05:41:13 darth_chatri [n=darth@203.129.224.178] has joined #scheme 05:43:39 -!- dysinger [n=tim@64.139.9.115] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:45:41 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 05:45:43 dum de dum 05:52:48 -!- raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:11 -!- xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:55:25 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 06:04:49 more TCO talk from GvR 06:08:17 -!- xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:08:37 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 06:09:23 -!- darth_chatri [n=darth@203.129.224.178] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:10:21 copumpkin: link? 06:10:29 http://neopythonic.blogspot.com/2009/04/final-words-on-tail-calls.html 06:10:44 So it's final now? 06:10:45 he admits he was confused, and suggests an ugly alternative that works without TCO or iteration 06:10:50 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 06:12:50 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:12:59 *eli* sighs 06:14:33 -!- Adrinael [i=adrinael@rid7.kyla.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 06:14:35 Adrinael [i=adrinael@rid7.kyla.fi] has joined #scheme 06:14:35 heh 06:15:18 *eli* sighs again 06:15:36 *copumpkin* sighs more loudly 06:15:42 "Ian Bicking gave a solution that is as simple as it is elegant" 06:15:58 *copumpkin* bleghs 06:16:30 And soon enough someone will call it "The Bicking Transformation", and it's as if a thousand implementations didn't do that for years^H^H^H^H^Hdecades. 06:19:42 -!- xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:20:08 xwl_ [n=user@147.243.236.60] has joined #scheme 06:23:02 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:39:10 -!- pantsd [n=hkarau@nat/uwaterloo/x-a8b0038f526c00f7] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:41:54 -!- Jarvellis is now known as veljarvis 06:44:43 *jonrafkind* sigh 06:44:47 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@s208-190.pubnet.titech.ac.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:47:28 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:52:45 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 06:53:10 raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has joined #scheme 06:53:29 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:58:16 brandelune [n=suzume@pl392.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:00:51 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 07:07:04 Ragnaroek [i=54a63f61@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d8b5c3a0c1468a9c] has joined #scheme 07:08:34 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 07:09:26 -!- raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:17:00 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:18:00 elias` [n=me@resnet-nat-206.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 07:21:45 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:22:21 elias` [n=me@resnet-nat-365.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 07:24:17 elias`_ [n=me@resnet-nat-082.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 07:24:17 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:24:29 -!- elias`_ is now known as elias` 07:25:09 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.175.5] has joined #scheme 07:28:26 wait wait wait 07:28:55 he's deliberately ommitting tail call recursion from python...because of debug stack traces? 07:29:11 yeah, 1000 stack frames is enough for everyone anyway 07:30:16 yeah I'm not in any hurry to get my #python ban cleared. 07:30:56 you been trolling? 07:31:01 or is it just draconian? I've never been there 07:32:03 It's draconian, but I was being a little snippy at the time. 07:34:10 darth_chatri [n=darth@203.129.224.178] has joined #scheme 07:34:46 I would never intentionally disrupt a channel's smooth operation. 07:34:53 Well except #politics lol 07:35:10 ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db0ea32.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #scheme 07:35:23 :) 07:35:49 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 07:45:58 elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 07:47:15 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@195.26.167.6] has joined #scheme 07:54:32 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65.78.24.47] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:59:30 raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has joined #scheme 08:03:16 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.2.11.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [] 08:07:48 Guyrolf [n=sean@user-514d2305.l1.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #scheme 08:08:12 -!- Guyrolf is now known as rolf_harris_ 08:08:29 -!- rolf_harris_ [n=sean@user-514d2305.l1.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has left #scheme 08:09:56 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 08:10:15 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 08:11:03 HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has joined #scheme 08:15:00 jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-11-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #scheme 08:18:02 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:22:56 -!- npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:23:03 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 08:24:36 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:26:18 -!- darth_chatri [n=darth@203.129.224.178] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:29:13 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.175.5] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:31:38 raikov` [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has joined #scheme 08:31:52 orgy` [n=ratm_@217.255.233.220] has joined #scheme 08:32:12 -!- raikov [n=igr@60.32.127.43] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:33:42 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@195.26.167.6] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:34:45 -!- ASau` [n=user@host161-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:35:07 ASau` [n=user@77.246.231.161] has joined #scheme 08:38:55 -!- npe_ is now known as npe 08:41:59 sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has joined #scheme 08:45:39 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-153-45.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:50:36 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.2.148.72] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:53:29 -!- sepult_ [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:56:03 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-25.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 08:58:24 darth_chatri [n=darth@203.129.224.178] has joined #scheme 08:59:10 -!- darth_chatri [n=darth@203.129.224.178] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:03 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 09:04:31 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 09:08:21 -!- HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has quit [Client Quit] 09:09:54 hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@adsl-70-234-252-144.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 09:13:09 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:13:36 hadronzoo__ [n=hadronzo@adsl-70-234-252-144.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 09:14:29 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@adsl-70-234-252-144.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:17:45 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:29:16 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-197-217.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 09:30:42 -!- hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@adsl-70-234-252-144.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:31:36 ct2rips_ [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db0ea32.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #scheme 09:32:26 -!- ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db0ea32.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Noch da, noch da ... 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I can't seem to find an attributed reference 09:49:37 aspect: Do you need only 1 random item? 09:49:46 aspect: isn't that in Knuth's TAOCP? 09:50:43 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:54:35 maybe it's Knuth, I thought it was a Schemer I read of it from 09:54:57 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 09:56:04 aspect: If you need only one line, then the algorithm is very simple. 09:56:15 as long as random does not mean uniformly distributed then I am happy ;P 09:56:42 But it requires a `random' call at every step, so length+random can be faster. 09:56:49 s/can be/is/ 09:57:04 I know the algorithm -- someone just asked me to post it to a wiki and I'd like to attribute it 09:59:24 -!- npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:59:31 npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 10:02:01 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.231.161] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:02:18 ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db0ea32.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #scheme 10:03:51 jewel [n=jewel@41.242.183.106] has joined #scheme 10:04:25 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:10:49 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 10:13:02 ASau` [n=user@host161-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 10:14:01 -!- hadronzoo__ [n=hadronzo@adsl-70-234-252-144.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:27:43 mike [n=m@infedyn086.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de] has joined #scheme 10:28:11 -!- mike is now known as Guest37318 10:33:37 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 10:34:34 -!- ct2rips [n=ct2rips@blfd-4db0ea32.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit ["Noch da, noch da ... 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as Guest63536 11:22:17 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@219.140.250.126] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 11:22:28 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.19.212] has joined #scheme 11:22:54 -!- joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has quit [Success] 11:23:08 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@219.140.250.126] has joined #scheme 11:31:05 eli : (i'm not expert), but i expect LCO from a Prolog implementation (optionally being able to turn it "off", during debugging) 11:32:06 it's the only way to describe an iterative process, apart from failure-driven loops, which are not always applicable, nor appropriate 11:47:49 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-197-80-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:48:18 -!- Deformative [n=joe@c-71-238-45-45.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:48:37 joast [n=rick@76.178.184.231] has joined #scheme 11:48:43 ASau` [n=user@host161-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 11:50:02 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has quit ["leaving"] 11:54:14 -!- Guest63536 [n=m@infedyn086.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:03:55 -!- sohum [n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum] has left #scheme 12:07:55 ski: See what I wrote: (a) LCO is almost certainly newer than TCO; (b) the fact that is optional means that it's not taken as a language feature (where, for example, when you write a debugger you do your best to *preserve* TCO). 12:13:54 elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.10.198.static.se.wasadata.net] has joined #scheme 12:22:08 higepon642 [n=taro@FLH1Amf115.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 12:23:08 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 12:24:10 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.57.58.146] has joined #scheme 12:24:40 -!- higepon642 is now known as hige3sei 12:25:22 -!- hige3sei is now known as higepon 12:25:41 -!- higepon is now known as higesan 12:27:33 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:35:27 -!- higesan is now known as hige 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(Connection reset by peer)] 13:00:03 thehcdreamer [n=thehcdre@93.37.250.121] has joined #scheme 13:00:18 nA1828KcFz9q [n=morse@cpe-071-065-237-135.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:00:27 -!- jewel [n=jewel@41.242.183.106] has quit [Success] 13:01:23 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:03:03 scuse me all...I'm new to Scheme (using PLT Scheme, to be specific) and having some trouble with regex matching. I was expecting the following to create a very simple config file: 13:04:06 dstorrs pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79342 13:04:43 but instead it fails because the regex is not capturing the string "vm.cfg" and binding it to the symbol "filename" as I expected. 13:06:01 dstorrs annotated #79342 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/79342#1 13:06:10 (the config file that it's reading is listed as an annotation) 13:06:43 -!- higepon343 is now known as hige 13:07:26 (a) How can it match both SLEEP and OUTPUT at the beginning of the line? 13:08:00 I was expecting it to match SLEEP off the first line and OUTPUT off the second. 13:08:04 (b) you need to quote the \b (unless you mean it) 13:08:34 (c) the parentheses around the first regexp are redundant. 13:08:53 this is inside a for loop, so (IIUC) it should evaluate the bindings once per line. If the match doesn't fly, I would expect it to not change the binding on the variable. 13:08:57 (d) the result of `regexp-match' is a list, not just a string. 13:09:50 ah. 13:09:56 xwl` [n=user@114.246.86.173] has joined #scheme 13:09:59 And finally -- no, it will make the body run on each line -- each value of `l'. There is no magic that makes an item be consumed on every use of `l'. 13:10:07 annodomini [n=lambda@75.69.96.104] has joined #scheme 13:12:00 bleh. 13:12:46 ok, then my next thought would be to create the two vars that I need (command and filename), initially bind them to #f, and then have the loop inside of that. 13:13:12 inside the loop I'd have a match attempt against current line which, if successful, would set! the relevant variable. 13:13:20 And alternating `set!'-ing one or the other? 13:13:20 but that doesn't seem very Schemeish. 13:13:25 is there a better way? 13:13:36 I'll match you bleh and raised you five more. 13:13:47 s/you/your/ 13:13:56 s/raised/raise/ 13:14:02 09:13 < dstorrs> but that doesn't seem very Schemeish. 13:14:08 09:13 < dstorrs> is there a better way? 13:14:11 :> 13:14:29 Yeah, that doesn't give you any discounts in the bleh department. 13:14:56 Anyway, is your input format strictly alternating the two kind of lines? 13:15:09 That is, there are no comments, no empty lines, none of that? 13:15:29 no. This is an arbitrary exercise "take an arbitrary config file and, from it, generate a new config file" 13:15:56 I'm trying to work my way up to manipulating Amazon EC2 / S3 services from Scheme, but I want to do it in small chunks. 13:16:24 and (see above), "new to Scheme" and little experience with functional programming 13:16:38 I don't know any specific details on the amazon thing; but if I understand your code correctly, you're trying to process an input file that makes it generate many smaller files, right? 13:16:55 right. 13:16:56 in the initial case, it just has to generate one. 13:17:19 it creates a new file named whatever the value of "OUTPUT_FILE" is, then it spits out the "SLEEP" line into that file 13:17:36 (which, incidentally, is why I had capturing parens around the whole pattern there) 13:17:44 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 13:17:44 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 13:18:01 First of all, you always get the matched part as the first value of the list. 13:18:09 -!- tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:18:16 As a meta point, Scheme is very easy to play with, so just try. 13:18:23 tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 13:18:31 rudybot: eval (regexp-match #rx"a*" "foo") 13:18:31 eli: ; Value: ("") 13:18:36 rudybot: eval (regexp-match #rx"a*" "foo bar baz") 13:18:36 eli: ; Value: ("") 13:18:37 that's what I'm doing. just, some things aren't going as expected, so I was looking for clarification. 13:18:44 rudybot: eval (regexp-match #rx"a+" "foo bar baz") 13:18:44 eli: ; Value: ("a") 13:18:51 rudybot: eval (regexp-match #rx"a+(r)" "foo bar baz") 13:18:51 eli: ; Value: ("ar" "r") 13:19:36 the hell? 13:19:41 Second, if you have just two lines in the file, you can convert the whole file to strings with `file->lines', then do your thing with the first and second values in the result. 13:19:54 What's the problem? 13:20:03 why did a+r return "ar" AND "r"? 13:20:14 the a was required to match at least once. 13:20:44 oh wait, I see. 13:20:58 It returns a list holding the matched string -- that's "ar", and the rest of the values in the list are one for each subgroup -- just one in this case, which matched "r". 13:20:58 the car is the complete match, the cdr consists of the subcaptures. 13:21:03 oy. 13:21:06 Exactly. 13:22:04 Anyway, when you want to do this with an input of these line pairs repeated, then you can use a nice plt feature -- you can just use `regexp-match' over an input port. 13:22:12 -!- hige [n=taro@FLH1Amf115.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:22:24 ...and other regexp related functions. 13:22:32 right, I've been reading about some of those. 13:22:34 higepon537 [n=taro@FLH1Amf115.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 13:22:47 but those would only work when the input file is very predictable. 13:23:00 the point here is really more to learn about parsing under Scheme. 13:23:24 I'm starting with a simple exercise, but.... 13:23:51 Well, that is very basic parsing. 13:23:57 fair enough. 13:24:06 In your case, it would be something like: 13:24:07 -!- pchrist_ [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 13:24:53 (regexp-match* #px"SLEEP\nOUTPUT_FILE...stuff..." (open-input-file "config")) 13:25:23 (where `regexp-match*' returns a list of matches, running the original regexp repeatedly over the input port) 13:25:31 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has joined #scheme 13:25:45 -!- xwl [n=user@114.246.74.178] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:26:20 ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 13:26:42 (which points out a glitch in my regex. It should have been #rx"(^SLEEP\\b.+$)", as I'm trying to capture the whole line. Oops) 13:28:45 -!- higepon537 is now known as higepon 13:28:52 when scheme runs the regex across a port, does it read one line, match, read one / match, etc? 13:28:54 Just note that if you want more regexp patterns, like \b, you need #px"..." -- that's a "perl-like regexp", which more patterns available. 13:29:08 -!- higepon [n=taro@FLH1Amf115.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:29:21 thanks. 13:30:35 Also, note that the default in plt is for `.' to match any character and `^' `$' match the beginning/end of the string, you need to make the pattern use [^\n] or use (?s:...) or whatever to make `.' match a non-newline character, and `^' `$' match a line boundary. 13:31:42 I saw something about Perl syntax support in there. Hopefully I can just add the "m" option 13:32:32 Just remember #px -- the reason for the different syntax is that perl regexps change the semantics of some things in the normal regexps. 13:32:41 got it. many thanks. 13:32:45 oh, one more question. 13:33:09 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Operation timed out] 13:33:42 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:34:51 Yes? 13:35:04 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:35:06 say I capture the filename to a symbol 'filename'. then (string? filename) => #t and (open-output-file filename) => 13:35:10 yes? 13:35:20 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-183-106.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:35:26 roughly. 13:35:52 Should be "say I bind the filename to an identifier `filename'" 13:37:27 hmmm...right, ok, I see. "capture" means simply that it was matched and returned in a particular position. "symbol" is just a data construct, similar to "string" or "integer" but of different type. "identifier" is a container that can store a value, and "bind" is the process of storing a value to it. 13:37:46 more on track? 13:38:14 higepon471 [n=taro@FLH1Amf115.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #scheme 13:38:23 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:38:46 Yes, much better... 13:39:10 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@93-138-11-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:39:48 cool. gotta learn the translations from other languages. 13:42:17 xwl`` [n=user@114.246.74.207] has joined #scheme 13:42:29 incidentally, there's no Scheme equivalent to __END__ is there? i.e., "stop reading the file here, ignore everything below this" 13:42:53 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.57.58.146] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:51:24 r5rs eof-object? 13:51:24 http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_idx_618 13:51:42 incubot: ? 13:51:46 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/59qhmr 13:53:32 sladegen: not sure if that was for me or not, but eof-object? isn't quite what I was looking for. __END__ allows you to choose an arbitrary endpoint for your code files beyond which the compiler / interpreter does not look. 13:54:52 -!- bsund [n=bsund@213.180.77.55] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:55:34 bsund [n=bsund@213.180.77.55] has joined #scheme 13:57:37 -!- tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:57:57 dstorrs: you could use block comment, perhaps. 13:58:04 ejs2 [n=eugen@63.251.108.100] has joined #scheme 13:58:09 -!- xwl` [n=user@114.246.86.173] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:58:19 #; or some such... 13:59:07 sladegen: how does block comment work? I only know about the "; " form. 13:59:24 like /* in */ C 13:59:31 #| .. |# 13:59:36 right 13:59:50 It's nonstandard, I think 13:59:53 But there's an SRFI? 14:00:15 i'm 99% sure plt supports it. 14:01:06 yep, it does. sweet. thanks for the tip. :> 14:01:14 #; ;# works? 14:01:30 -!- ASau [n=user@host162-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off!"] 14:01:54 -!- ASau` [n=user@host161-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:02:03 geckosenator: nope. 14:02:10 what sjaman said... ;# would be "dubious". 14:02:40 tttsssttt [n=pussycat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 14:02:58 geckosenator: not under PLT anyway (specifically, using mzscheme from command line inside Emacs) 14:04:23 note that you can't leave off the #| in order to mean "go to end of file" 14:05:20 -!- ejs1 [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:05:53 it's only 4 chars to fix in case other implementation does not support it but if your editor supports it perhaps it's better to use "region-highlight-comment" feature. 14:06:41 -!- elfor [n=johanfre@85.8.10.198.static.se.wasadata.net] has quit [] 14:07:45 sladegen: yeah, that's what I've been doing. select region and C-c# or C-cM-# => comment out / in the entire region. I just miss some of the Perl conveniences that I was familiar with. 14:08:53 yeah, next you'll be missing interactive development in perl ;) 14:10:57 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 14:13:26 xwl``` [n=user@114.246.66.137] has joined #scheme 14:16:57 -!- sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-74-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:17:30 sepult [n=sepult@xdsl-87-78-72-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:18:27 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:22:24 -!- ejs2 [n=eugen@63.251.108.100] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:24:38 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl392.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 14:30:29 -!- xwl`` [n=user@114.246.74.207] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:33:09 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 14:37:47 -!- Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:43:56 Quadrescence [n=quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #scheme 14:52:29 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:55:24 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:56:05 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:02:23 *dstorrs* comes back from shopping. 15:04:16 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:04:16 sladegen: interactive development in PLT Scheme: mzscheme [type Scheme here] 15:04:23 interactive development in Perl: perl -de1 [type Perl here] 15:04:27 :> 15:05:39 kidding aside, though, I'm learning Scheme because it's a great language with a lot to offer. 15:09:17 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 15:11:26 HG` [n=wells@91.108.74.20] has joined #scheme 15:14:12 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 15:14:46 -!- npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:53 npe_ [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has joined #scheme 15:15:00 -!- npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:15:34 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has quit ["leaving"] 15:15:42 ejs [n=eugen@126-178-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 15:16:00 eli : ok 15:16:21 (i still wonder whether LCO was found independently of TCO ..) 15:16:23 http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596515171/toc.html <- Not a single Lisp :( 15:16:32 dzhus [n=sphinx@95-24-180-32.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #scheme 15:17:54 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has quit ["leaving"] 15:21:14 -!- higepon471 [n=taro@FLH1Amf115.tky.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:21:56 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:21:58 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 15:24:16 mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has joined #scheme 15:25:53 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 15:26:04 foof: also, the order and some of the choices are a little weird. C++ but no C? Postscript and UML? Is UML even a programming language? 15:26:46 Postscript is, but overlaps a fair amount with Forth. 15:26:55 UML is not. 15:27:15 Postscript is Turing complete, but it's hardly a programming language in any normal sense. 15:27:45 It's actually not that hard to program in. It's a Forth with builtin drawing primitives. 15:28:13 what problem domain could you be working on where working directly in Postscript would be the best choice? 15:28:15 The postscript TeX generates is opaque, but that language itself is fairly nice. 15:28:32 foof: did you get there by reading Guido's post on TCO? 15:28:37 (serious question, I'm not being snarky) 15:28:38 no 15:29:02 oh, I just read his article and he linked to it 15:29:04 http://neopythonic.blogspot.com/2009/04/final-words-on-tail-calls.html 15:29:21 I dislike his little sneer against Scheme at the end. 15:29:49 dstorrs: If you asked the same question for any language X, in most cases I'd have no answer. 15:31:05 e.g. I would never consider Python the best choice in any circumstances, but I won't try to argue Python isn't a programming language. 15:31:47 foof: I'm sure you could find domains where most languages are well suited. 15:31:50 There might be some debate about "well, I'd rather be writing Scheme to generate X", but I don't think you could argue that, e.g., C is well suited for writing device drivers and other on-the-metal code 15:31:58 (Apparently the creators of Scheme were too busy arguing whether to say "tail call optimization" or "proper tail recursion." :-) ... another clueless one 15:32:33 Perl and Python are well suited for text processing and glue code, etc. 15:32:47 can someone inform him it says "properly tail recursive" 15:32:58 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 15:34:40 semantics... you are not real language deisigner if less than 100k people are using it. 15:34:49 define k :p 15:34:50 Then I'd have to say the Postscript is well suited to run in limited memory and embedded devices, and the standard Postscript libraries provide very powerful abstraction for generating graphics. 15:34:58 0.00001 :p 15:36:27 fair enough. And I suppose I wandered from my original question; Postscript /is/ well suited for printing / graphics and low mem, as you say. It's just a complete pain to work in, which is why it usually gets generated by something else. 15:37:32 If you write it cleanly by hand with normal formatting and non-gensymed function names, then it's just as easy to read and write as Forth. 15:37:39 which to some people is still impossible ;) 15:37:50 heh. 15:39:04 mike [n=m@dslb-088-064-130-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 15:39:06 well, my experience with Postscript comes from dynamic reformatting of PDFs, and is an experience that I still keep locked tight in my Box O' Horrific Experiences, so I'll just take your word for it. :> 15:39:32 -!- mike is now known as Guest13283 15:40:48 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:51:27 -!- ada2358 [n=ada2358@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:51:27 -!- ineiros [n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:51:27 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [sendak.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 15:53:13 ada2358 [n=ada2358@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 15:53:16 ineiros [n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi] has joined #scheme 15:57:37 kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94.170.16.78] has joined #scheme 15:58:33 -!- ejs [n=eugen@126-178-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:59:00 eli: ok, I've been fiddling around with this for a while in various formats, and I'm still confused about the matching behavior. 15:59:39 given a file consisting solely of the string: "OUTPUT_FILE = vm.cfg\nSLEEP = 7\n" and the following code: 15:59:48 (regexp-match* #px"(?m:^(SLEEP\\b.+)$|^OUTPUT_FILE\\s*=\\s*(.+)$)" (open-input-file "config")) 16:00:14 I would expect to get back (#"vm.cfg" #"SLEEP = 7") 16:00:24 instead I get (#"OUTPUT_FILE = vm.cfg" #"SLEEP = 7") 16:01:09 (or, perhaps I should expect to see (#"OUTPUT_FILE = vm.cfg" #"vm.cfg" #"SLEEP = 7") --either way, there is a subpattern missing) 16:01:13 what am I doing wrong? 16:01:40 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 16:02:37 do you have to 'double' escape for a #px string ? 16:03:13 yes; the repl barfs otherwise. 16:03:23 ok :) was not sure 16:03:50 why is SLEEP in ( ) ? 16:03:58 because I want to capture that entire line. 16:04:10 I'm parsing a (toy) config file 16:04:24 i cant see that it will matter ^ and $ does that 16:04:27 -!- kjfletch [n=kjfletch@94.170.16.78] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:04:37 I'm going to use the value of the OUTPUT_FILE line to determine the name of a new file, then write the SLEEP line into that new file. 16:05:00 I am also unsure how \b works here, let me look 16:05:13 boundary between word and non-word chars. 16:05:40 so how can "SLEEP = 7" be matched? 16:06:02 or will \b+ match " = 7" ? 16:06:05 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:06:15 oops 16:06:21 i missed the . :p 16:06:34 :> 16:06:44 leppie: you missed your period?! 16:06:51 oh noes!!! 16:07:08 *snerk* 16:08:32 so why dont you just use ^SLEEP\s+=\s+\d+.*$ ? 16:08:59 wrldpc [n=worldpea@173.48.214.204] has joined #scheme 16:09:33 erm...yeah, that works, doesn't it? In Scheme, a match always returns the complete match, not t/f or a count. ok. 16:10:03 i dunno, depends on implementation 16:10:06 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw261071.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:12:05 dstorrs: read the docs for regexp-match*, it specifically says it doesn't return submatches 16:12:26 you should use regexp-match if you want them 16:12:34 *headdesk* 16:12:42 p1dzkl: thank you! 16:12:47 I've been going nuts on this. 16:13:00 I did read it, just not closely enough. 16:15:16 p1dzkl: i dont see a sub match, it just a choice of 2 16:15:58 leppie: the submatch is for the OUTPUT_FILE line 16:16:08 the line in the file is "OUTPUT_FILE = vm.cfg" 16:16:16 I'm trying to capture the "vm.cfg" 16:16:21 maybe I am misreading the * (that kinda spell return all matches to me) 16:17:46 in plt-scheme, is there a straightforward way to say "give me whatever was matching by the first (second, third) submatch"? 16:18:04 I can take the list and parse it out, but I assume there is an easier way. 16:18:20 s/matching/matched/ 16:19:21 lol, does anyone else find PLT doc search reaaalllyyy slow? 16:19:49 *dstorrs* raises his hand affirmatively. 16:20:06 takes like 1-2 minutes for the response to come back 16:20:15 well this time I am still waiting... 16:20:38 want real fun? Try doing it through Tor. 16:21:02 dstorrs: you could say (first/second/third (cdr result-list)) 16:21:32 p1dzkl is that a real proc? 16:21:37 looks handy :p 16:21:54 woohoo, search returned! 16:22:06