00:00:06 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 00:00:41 i'm on ubuntu linux; i have to write an application in opengl; I don't like plt scheme; what's the best scheme to use? 00:01:27 side question, what don't you like about plt? 00:01:39 it's gigantic, the source code is unreadable 00:01:51 ahh 00:02:01 Is Gambit's source code readable? 00:02:17 i'm trying to decide on a scheme myself, and don't really know the pros/cons 00:02:23 i find it more readable than plt 00:02:43 the main reason I use gambit is because of it's debugger 00:02:50 but funny thing is, I find myself never using it 00:02:57 i'm half tempted to jump back to chicken scheme 00:03:26 what are the strengths of chicken? 00:03:38 it's ffi is awesome 00:03:55 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-200.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03:59 but nobody bothered to give it an opengl library? 00:04:08 it has decent opengl bindings 00:04:23 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE83B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:06:31 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 00:07:03 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.223.129] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:07:14 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 00:07:33 lowlycoder: You have plenty of choices... 00:14:50 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:15:43 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 00:15:50 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:15:56 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:15:57 I hate GCC because its source code is unreadable. 00:18:33 maybe you just can't read 00:19:00 Daemmerung: try chmod +r -R gcc* 00:19:07 *mejja* laughs 00:19:17 mejja: you win a no-prize 00:20:01 Oh, wait, I was putting the floppy in upside down. Never mind. 00:21:55 breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 00:32:49 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 00:37:26 -!- breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:43:36 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 00:48:56 npe [n=npe@pw126249009221.9.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:50:08 npe_ [n=npe@pw126249009221.9.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:50:09 -!- npe [n=npe@pw126249009221.9.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:50:35 -!- npe_ is now known as npe 00:51:12 npe_ [n=npe@pw126249009221.9.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 00:51:12 -!- npe [n=npe@pw126249009221.9.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:51:42 -!- npe_ is now known as npe 00:52:26 -!- npe [n=npe@pw126249009221.9.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 00:53:35 -!- Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 00:55:47 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:20:11 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:26:54 -!- cipher [n=cipher@pool-173-48-136-239.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:31:57 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:34:33 -!- McManiaC [n=nils@vpn1216.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit ["leaving"] 01:34:40 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 01:36:39 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:43:21 cipher [n=cipher@pool-173-48-136-239.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:49:55 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-65.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 01:51:27 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 01:54:14 -!- timchen119 is now known as nasloc__ 01:58:50 -!- luz [n=davids@189.122.117.82] has quit ["Client exiting"] 02:02:15 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 02:06:40 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-103-226.netcologne.de] has quit [Connection timed out] 02:08:30 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-75-68-42-94.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:15:46 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot 02:19:51 jao` [n=jao@cpe-75-84-114-170.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 02:21:20 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:24:25 -!- jao [n=jao@obfw.oblong.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:13 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176223163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 02:39:31 davidad1 [n=me@NORTHWEST-THIRTYFIVE-FOUR-TWENTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:39:48 -!- davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-16-64.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:41:52 -!- tjafk [n=timj@e176213045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:49:03 ziggurat [n=ziggurat@pool-173-57-57-115.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:50:28 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 02:50:29 elderK [n=zk@122-57-250-128.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 02:50:39 Hey guys, I think I'm losing that almighty, awesome Lisp light... 02:50:41 :( 02:50:44 *elderK* sighs sadly. 02:50:50 *elderK* thinks he is missing something amazingly obvious. 02:50:53 there there 02:50:57 you're missing beer! 02:51:00 :( 02:51:09 *offby1* recommends Full Sail Amber 02:51:10 Perhaps I am using Scheme for the wrong tasks. 02:51:14 or Chimay 02:51:16 perhaps. 02:51:27 Writing a linker for fun, for example, in Scheme. 02:51:27 :p 02:51:51 Writing my own extraction functions for integers from arbitrary locations. Writing my own extensions to IO system 02:52:22 But perhaps that kind of work (dealing with masses of binary encoding/decoding, and such) is just... not what Scheme is for. 02:52:28 Or maybe I am simply misunderstanding a bunch of things. 02:52:29 I don't know. 02:52:34 *elderK* sighs, seems sad. 02:55:01 erlnoob [n=Miranda@117.102.111.31] has joined #scheme 02:55:51 well, much as I love the language, there are surely things it sucks at. 02:55:58 Like, e.g, getting useful work done 02:55:58 *offby1* glances around nervously. 02:56:25 What do you use Scheme for most of the time? 02:56:32 playing around. Really. 02:56:34 Oh, and: 02:56:37 rudybot: eval (banner) 02:56:38 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 02:56:38 *offby1: ; Value: "Welcome to MzScheme v4.1.5.3 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2009 PLT Scheme Inc.\n" 02:56:46 rudybot: version 02:56:46 *offby1: b2a7675 02:56:53 rudybot: help 02:56:53 *offby1: help [], version, quote, source, seen , uptime, init [], eval ..., give ..., apropos ..., desc , doc , later "tell" ..., join , part , tell ..., emote ..., for ..., nick , system ..., top-eval ... 02:57:02 well, somewhere in there I've got something that says it's mine. 02:57:25 It's such a weird feeling I have with it, because I really, really, really like the langauge. But, unless I invest a LARGE chunk of time extending it, it is not going to be practical. In which time, I could probably have built all the things I want to build by then. 02:58:17 rudybot: eval (system("uname")) 02:58:18 elderK: your sandbox is ready 02:58:18 elderK: error: reference to undefined identifier: system 02:58:49 :P worth a shot 03:00:17 rubybot: eval (print "Im thinking!") 03:00:26 rubybot: eval (display "Im thinking!") 03:00:30 hmm 03:00:59 rudybot: eval (print "Mwahahaha!") 03:00:59 elderK: ; stdout: "\"Mwahahaha!\"" 03:01:03 :P 03:01:14 rudybot: (print "I iz haz pawz!") 03:01:14 elderK: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 03:01:19 hahaahah 03:01:20 awesome 03:02:00 I am puzzled 03:02:04 since when does it have "print" ? 03:03:17 rudybot: eval 33 03:03:18 *offby1: ; Value: 33 03:03:24 rubybot: eval (display "Im thinking!") 03:03:27 rudybot: eval (print "Behold, for I, am the hallowed Rudybot of kickassocity!") 03:03:27 elderK: ; stdout: "\"Behold, for I, am the hallowed Rudybot of kickassocity!\"" 03:03:30 *offby1* smacks head 03:03:33 rudybot: eval (display "Im thinking!") 03:03:33 *offby1: ; stdout: "Im thinking!" 03:03:40 rudybot: eval print 03:03:40 *offby1: ; Value: # 03:03:44 :P 03:03:48 rudybot: doc print 03:03:48 *offby1: http://docs.plt-scheme.org/reference/Writing.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._print)) 03:03:53 who knew 03:04:06 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:04:20 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:04:53 npe [n=npe@pw126251011195.11.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:05:00 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-158-6.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:06:01 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:06:14 *rotty* is doing a minimalistic autoconf-alike feature for conjure 03:06:18 rudybot: eval (system-type 'os) 03:06:18 elderK: ; Value: unix 03:06:23 another nick I haven't seen in a while! 03:06:26 *offby1* tips hat at rotty 03:06:33 ooh, elderK is hackin' 03:06:48 rudybot: eval (system-type 'machine) 03:06:54 offby1: hi there :-) 03:07:38 rudybot: eval (getenv "PATH") 03:07:52 rudybot: eval (getenv "LOGNAME") 03:07:57 elderK: ; Value: "" 03:07:58 *offby1: ; Value: "" 03:07:59 elderK: ; Value: #f 03:08:19 rudybot: eval (getenv "USER") 03:08:19 elderK: ; Value: #f 03:08:22 hehe, nice. 03:08:23 rudybot: eval (current-command-line-arguments) 03:08:24 *offby1: ; Value: #() 03:08:36 I think I clear out the environment first thing after it starts. 03:08:46 -!- npe [n=npe@pw126251011195.11.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 03:10:38 rudybot: eval (subprocess #t #f #t "/bin/ls" "/home") 03:10:39 elderK: error: subprocess: expects type as 1st argument, given: #t; other arguments were: #f #t "/bin/ls" "/home" 03:10:43 o_O 03:10:50 (regarding the autoconfish thing: it has much nicer properties than autoconf :-): no configure.ac file, but seamlessly integrated into the build process, and potentially much more efficient than running ./configure) 03:11:02 rudybot: eval string->url 03:11:03 synx: your scheme sandbox is ready 03:11:03 synx: error: reference to an identifier before its definition: string->url in module: 'program 03:11:15 hey, synx! 03:11:15 :D 03:11:29 rudybot: eval (subprocess #f #f #f "/bin/ls" "/home") 03:11:29 *offby1: error: subprocess: `execute' access denied for /bin/ls 03:11:29 rudybot: eval- (require net/url) 03:11:29 synx: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 03:11:31 rudybot: eval (require net/url) 03:11:33 rudybot: eval string->url 03:11:33 synx: ; Value: #url> 03:11:49 elderK: heyyo 03:11:58 rudybot: eval (call/input-url (string->url "http://whatismyip.org") get-pure-port ( (input) (read input))) 03:11:58 synx: error: tcp-connect: network access denied: ("whatismyip.org" 80 client) 03:12:09 unfortunately the security is so tight that you can't even "require" a lot of useful stuff. I'm surprised it let you get net/url 03:12:11 ehehehe 03:12:40 synx: you can just say "read" instead of (lambda (input) (read input)) 03:12:50 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 03:12:56 ...right 03:13:12 You use a sandbox, which is fully disabled until you permit things explicitly, so there really isn't that many possible holes in it. 03:13:31 well, there have been a few 03:13:34 *offby1* clears his throat 03:13:57 nothing the likes of me could ever come up with. 03:14:35 npe [n=npe@p27234-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:14:57 wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:16:44 I'll be happy enough getting this pipelining HTTP client to halfway working. 03:17:15 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:18:26 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:19:04 Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 03:19:55 synx: What kind of things do you do with Scheme? 03:20:04 and what implementation do you use? :) Do you often use FFI? :) 03:20:08 or SRFIs and the like? 03:20:19 *offby1* used to do Project Euler a little 03:20:30 Hmm... 03:20:40 PLT is said to have a nice FFI, but I've barely used it 03:20:44 https://synx.us.to/arts/ is my current project sorta 03:20:56 I use FFI whenever I have a FF to I with. 03:21:10 I'm only really familiar with the PLT FFI... 03:21:31 Made a libpq interface with it. Which that website uses. 03:22:19 It's just, I'm finding it hard to realyl do anything practical, without resorting to FFI or SRFIs or Eggs. 03:22:43 Proxy error, synx? 03:23:03 proxy error? o.O 03:23:13 yup, cannot process "GET /arts/" 03:23:25 -!- erlnoob [n=Miranda@117.102.111.31] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:23:49 great, well I kind of didn't know it was broken for everyone outside of 127.0.0.1 03:24:13 :( Gutted man 03:24:46 synx: you need Zabbix or some kinda monitoring system. 03:24:59 elderK: Forget Scheme for a moment. If you are writing in C, but make no external library calls or system calls, what can you do? Not a whole hell of a lot. Thus also with this language. 03:25:23 offby1: currently I've got it running in 4 xterms xp 03:25:45 but I do eventually plan to get everything into monit. 03:26:27 elderK: could you try the site again? I want to see if remote access randomly breaks it, or if the process was just hung. 03:26:36 works now 03:26:40 bunnies! 03:26:53 yay, bunnies! 03:27:12 ferrets! all manner of cute fuzzies ... no cats, though 03:27:14 *offby1* scowls 03:27:19 WHAT have you got against CATS?! 03:27:22 y'know I don't see any bunnies, just at first glance. 03:27:38 I have 3, that's what! 03:27:57 *offby1* has one permanent and two transient 03:28:09 https://synx.us.to/arts/rabbit 03:31:04 Anyways, so that uses the PLT FFI to interface with libpq... and it's a horrible, horrible project I might add. 03:32:35 It actually makes pleas to divine intervention in order to function. 03:33:02 -!- jao` is now known as jao 03:33:27 appears to work, though; proof of the existence of God? 03:34:00 haha, guess so 03:34:02 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:34:48 It's just when trying to figure out what postgresql sized fixed type format a scheme value would be it seemed natural to use the word "divine" 03:37:24 synx: it's up 03:37:40 thanks elderK 03:37:46 Daemmerung: That's a good point. 03:38:05 But even freestanding, there is a huge amount you can do with pure C 03:38:12 even without the support of the standard library. 03:38:18 elderK: What? 03:38:29 elderK: C is VERY small. 03:38:30 uh, like what? 03:38:43 Kernel development, driver development, data structures, memory managers... 03:38:49 It's language is just a language like any other. It doesn't have any specific features, really, that lend itself to getting stuff *done*. 03:38:51 if you are insane, bootsectors. 03:38:57 You can create integers and...do math on them pretty much... 03:39:06 The only way to communicate with the user is the exit code. 03:39:09 Hahahah. 03:39:23 scheme has oodles of data structures. 03:39:26 They just happen to all be lists. 03:39:41 elderK: Drivers usually require interfacing with hardware, which is done through System calls. Memory management is just that as well. 03:39:53 not necessarily, arcfide. 03:39:55 you can run C on baremetal. 03:39:58 and interface directly. 03:40:01 How? 03:40:04 I think Elly had a class recently to write an operating system kernel in some scheme variant. 03:40:07 preemptive no less. 03:40:07 What C function does this? 03:40:09 Memory mapped IO? 03:40:12 :P 03:40:17 on a m68k 03:40:17 :P 03:40:27 scheme can do memory mapped IO. 03:40:42 elderK: Anything that you can do with pure C you can do with pure C. malloc() isn't even available in pure C. 03:40:48 It can? How? 03:40:52 I mean, pure Scheme. 03:41:05 elderK: Also, I use Scheme for real work, and have for some time. 03:41:09 you don' tneed malloc to do useful things in C. 03:41:15 elderK: I just write what I need to do, done. 03:41:24 Hey, arcfide - I'm not doubting you or Scheme. 03:41:24 :) 03:41:25 Like I said, 03:41:28 I like scheme, a lot. 03:41:29 You don't need malloc to do useful things in scheme :3 03:41:30 A lot a lot. 03:41:47 but, synx, you do? The entire system is supported by malloc and gC in the background. 03:41:55 unless I am mistaken. 03:41:59 I don't like scheme that much actually. It's the lesser of evils really. But I won't deny that it's more expressive than C. 03:42:00 elderK: Yeah, no I know you do, but you were questioning why Scheme was so hard with certain things. It's not really harder than certain things are in pure C either. You just have to get the right libraries. 03:42:10 elderK: Yes, you are generally mistaken. 03:42:10 Oh, by far, Scheme is FAR more expressive. 03:42:24 elderK: plt for instance only uses the stack. Well except for (malloc). 03:42:53 Yes Synx, but could yo uactually compile a freestanding Scheme binary - without relying on any PLT inclusions? 03:43:01 ie, totally freestanding, /zero/ foreign code. 03:43:09 elderK: if you want to do binary manipulation, you are going to have to either write the libraries to handle it, or use someone else's libraries. 03:43:23 Aye arcfide, I figured that too. 03:43:32 I just can't decide whether to implement thsoe librarie sin pure scheme or via ffi. 03:43:39 elderK: How many freestanding C programs are out there that do useful work that don't rely on libc? 03:43:44 I've written a couple 'half' libraries in Scheme, playing around. 03:43:59 Depending on what you consider useful arcfide, quite a lot. 03:44:05 elderK: scheme is not a specific implementation. Could you compile a C program without gcc, mingw, msvc, borland, or uh... iso...that other C compiler? 03:44:28 elderK: I usually go by the philosophy of writing everything in Scheme unless I need access to some function (like a system call or some other external library) that is not written in Scheme. 03:45:08 synx, you misunderstand there ;) C, compiled straight - freestanding, requires no external libraries, no external anything. Literally, what is in the binary - is nothing but the assembly translation of your code. Where as with Scheme, libraries are going to need to be take don - foreign code - to handle say, the stacky-gc stuff. 03:45:28 I go by the philosophy of trying to keep interfaces as clean as possible. So if I'm ever having to write two languages at the same time, instead of writing in one, and merely using the other, I consider that to be a problem. 03:45:39 elderK: Most C programs that are compiled utilize an external runtime library. 03:45:49 yes, thats true. 03:46:00 but the fact is, you can create functional programs in C, with zero runtime support. 03:46:23 well, zero foreign runtime :) 03:46:23 It would be possible to write scheme programs that produced assembler or binary machine code. I'm not sure what they're called though. 03:46:42 btw synx, cool page. 03:46:43 :p 03:46:52 You'd be amazed how little you need if you have the bytecode of certain scheme variants. 03:46:57 elderK: zero *foreign* runtime. Well, now .... 03:47:14 Thanks elderK! It was either that, or use ruby on rails danbooru. 03:47:30 Did you create all of these images, synx? 03:47:54 elderK: Most Schemes I know can do a WHOLE lot with just the native Scheme runtime environment. 03:48:06 Including Binary manipulation of data. 03:48:22 :) Care to point me to some that may better suit me, arc? 03:48:32 elderK: What are you trying to do? 03:48:37 and by zero foreign runtime, I mean zero code other than your own. 03:48:44 elderK: Yes, I saved every bit onto my disk with my own hands! 03:48:55 :P you didn't draw them? 03:49:06 heh, some of those critters are so damned cute :D 03:49:11 elderK: can you write a linker in C with zero foreign code? 03:49:14 heheheeh 03:49:20 yes, arcfide. 03:49:22 :) 03:49:27 To be frank HELL NO 03:49:28 elderK: Okay, how would you write files? 03:49:34 I collect more and better than I draw 03:49:35 ;) you said linker. 03:49:40 no one said that you had to write the result to disk 03:49:45 elderK: Yes, and a linker has to produce output of some kind. 03:49:49 ;) yes, in memory. 03:49:51 the nexecute that. 03:50:05 I've written ELF Runtime dynamic linkers, that work freestanding :) 03:50:07 what are you linking? 03:50:09 elderK: I'm thinking ld(1). 03:50:26 The linker can encode the binary file in its exit code 03:50:35 ;) 03:50:49 But no, I think I am simply seeing Scheme in the wrong light. 03:50:52 Iwas doing so well too. 03:50:52 I t hink the exit code is only 8 bytes on most unixes 03:50:59 I mean 8 bits 03:51:35 elderK: Do you have an example of a nontrivial program that you have written that was entirely your code, without a single other system INCLUDE? 03:51:40 I'm serious though. If the data is in memory - the files to be linked. And the output is simply, those files linked and ready for execution - and the RTDL is acting as a binder when needed - yes, you can link and do all of that - with zero foreign code. 03:51:41 in C. 03:51:43 or in assembly. 03:51:53 Yes, I do. 03:51:55 actually. 03:52:04 Kernels :) 03:52:16 experiments, at least. 03:52:30 memory managers (lots), 03:52:40 data structure libraries (radix, avl, others) 03:52:44 runtime linkers. 03:53:03 for elf (32/64, m68k, sparc, ia32, amd64) 03:53:11 It sounds more like you're talking about assembler than C. You could write a kernel in scheme. In fact people probably have. 03:53:19 :D Now TAHT 03:53:20 would be AWESOME 03:53:21 :D 03:53:23 Just iamgine a kernel in scheme 03:53:26 Said kernel would have to talk assembler eventually, even if it was written in some form of scheme. 03:53:28 How cool that would be 03:53:32 Well aye. 03:54:02 And I see the point you made arcfide - you could consider inline assembly, similar to Schemes "inline C". 03:54:03 :) 03:54:13 Just like C has to eventually code down to assembler. The system calls are themselves an interface to more assembler. And memory locations and stuff. 03:54:20 And then you end up with a Turing machine. 03:54:38 Yup. 03:54:54 I need to relax :P and stop caring about so much crap that really probably doesnt matter. 03:55:25 especially considering thes scheme runtime I will be using, certainly wont be as stupid as my evil-voice-shoulder-dude thinks. 03:55:34 they will be buffering files you read by byte. 03:55:46 *elderK* sighs in relaxation 03:55:52 I wonder if true parallel processing is Turing equivalent. 03:55:52 (or tries) :) 03:56:13 -!- npe [n=npe@p27234-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl064.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 -!- sanguinev [n=sanguine@116.197.145.49] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 -!- duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 -!- pbusser2 [n=peter@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 -!- Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:13 but hey, arcfide - synx - I just want to let you guys know, that I'm not arguing with you guys - In fact, It's been fun talking about this all :D 03:56:44 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-228.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- weinholt [i=weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- aardvarc [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-129-213.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- underspecified_ [n=eric-n@leopard175.naist.jp] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- fean [n=user@caffeine.and.vomitandmath.net] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- rodge [n=roderic@129.10.116.123] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:44 -!- clog [i=nef@bespin.org] has quit [bartol.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 03:56:48 I can't imagine how to make a (single) Turing machine that actually executed two program instructions at the exact same time. 03:56:53 no it's fine elderK I understand :) 03:57:35 Truth can stand up to the harshest inquiry, so you should question everything you can, and the truth will out. 03:57:40 ^_^ :) 03:57:42 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-228.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 XTL [i=t6haha00@rhea.oamk.fi] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-129-213.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 underspecified_ [n=eric-n@leopard175.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 weinholt [i=weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 aardvarc [i=tgAardva@student3113.student.nau.edu] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 mornfall [n=mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 fean [n=user@caffeine.and.vomitandmath.net] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 Debolaz [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 clog [i=nef@bespin.org] has joined #scheme 03:57:42 rodge [n=roderic@129.10.116.123] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 npe [n=npe@p27234-ipbffx02marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 brandelune [n=suzume@pl064.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 sanguinev [n=sanguine@116.197.145.49] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 duncanm [n=duncan@a-chinaman.com] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 pbusser2 [n=peter@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 03:57:47 Fade [i=fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #scheme 03:57:52 :O Woah. 03:57:57 Don't tell arcfide I said that though. He must never know. 03:58:10 Bah. 03:58:19 :3 03:58:37 Oh come on now! 03:59:09 A lie will have got halfway around the world, while the truth is still getting its trousers on 03:59:12 elderK: You'll have a hard time making any normally useful program without using foreign code of some kind. 03:59:29 elderK: And in Scheme, you'll find that almost all the functions are runtime. 03:59:38 Aye. 03:59:44 elderK: You can do a lot with Lambda. ;-) 03:59:52 elderK: In fact, you can do everything. 03:59:57 *arcfide* chuckles. 04:00:04 ^_^ 04:00:21 elderK: But specifically, what problem are you having that is making your life difficult? Is it just this binary handling stuff? 04:00:21 that being said however, I am thinking that gettuign some books on the functional way, would be useful. 04:00:36 since, mutating state in scheme doesnt seem the be the way that... most do things? At least, from waht I've read so far? 04:00:49 elderK: now you're getting it. ;-) 04:00:52 :) I'd be much appreciative to any websites you could point me to :) To help me 'click' 04:00:53 :) 04:00:59 SICP. 04:01:07 Have you read that? 04:01:20 I'm torn about mutation. You'd have to go to Haskell to find people who are adamantly set against it I'd say. 04:01:22 Not all of it, I confess. 04:02:05 ~_~ I don't know. I've spent so much time, years, writing in Assembly and C, on embedded chips and such - I'm so used to handling everything myself - optimizing to the Nth degree, that I forget tha tmost runtiems really arent that stupid. 04:02:08 I like mutation 04:02:24 Or maybe it was erlang... I forget which language has no mutation _at all_ 04:02:28 that, just beacuse I cant directly offset into some bytevector raw - direct - doesnt mean taht the runtime is actually copying everything. 04:02:30 elderK: If you want to write your own OS in Scheme, feel free to do so. 04:03:07 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:03:10 :) I'm just trying to move on from the odd 'must have everything perfect/everything minimal' perfectionism 04:03:24 What's wrong with that? 04:03:47 well, you stay up for 4 days straight freaking out because you couldnt manage to shave 3bits off of something 04:03:53 then you stay up a few more days until you manage it 04:04:03 you cant get to sleep because it feel sso imperfect, so sinful, to use too much memory. 04:04:04 elderK: Well that's not perfect and minimal use of developer efforts, is it? 04:04:23 it could be considered perfect, minimal use of hardware resources. 04:04:32 huh... 04:04:36 but thats the problem :) Its not 1970 anymore 04:04:37 http://www.stripedgazelle.org/cgi-bin/wiki_joey/asm86.scm 04:04:37 :P 04:04:56 It is possible to be very very careful about memory use in Scheme, and even get very precise memory usage in some cases, but that's not what most people would want to do, and I doubt it is what most people should do. 04:05:26 I generally just try to get something working, and then look about finding ways to make it more efficient. 04:05:41 That's not to say I eschew efficient code, just that it's more important to get the ideas well defined. 04:05:43 aye :) 04:05:49 no, I agree with taht. 04:05:58 I'm trying to get past this - but I'm finding ti very, very difficult. 04:05:59 Well defined ideas I'm pretty sure will produce more efficient code than the grungiest hack that does stuff you don't need. 04:06:01 which is why I came to scheme :D 04:06:22 :) so, to aid my quest on becoming a schemer, I shall need to study harder. 04:06:37 for example, those binary decode functions - I could build them with macros. 04:06:47 since the functions themselves change only by 3 numbers. 04:07:02 macro the fudge out of it and I'd save time :) 04:07:25 :D But, on th ebrightside, I've learned at least the syntax of syntax-rules and many of the opeeration sin Scheme. 04:07:29 nwo, I just need more insights on how to apply it 04:07:29 :) 04:07:40 thank you for the link on the assembler, btw, it's cool :D 04:07:42 elderK: I'm doing a lot of binary stuff 04:07:45 so little code :) 04:07:57 how did you solve the problems, geckosen1tor? 04:08:03 elderK: Generally, you don't need macros. 04:08:12 elderK: Until you need them. 04:08:48 aye. 04:09:46 :) I'll be back soon guys, I'm going to lay down for a little :) 04:10:12 And perhaps print out some code from the scheme internet snippet repo, the one wtih all the various things like OO systems and the like, just wander through it - see what I can grok :) 04:10:13 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176198229.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 04:11:39 *morphir* mutters something about the future being multi-paradigm 04:12:06 elderK: it's slow 04:18:18 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:27:06 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176223163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:52:03 foof: ping 05:01:48 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:08:02 pong 05:08:07 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:12:20 foof: Irregex definition of CHUNK-BEFORE? calls itself with a different set of arguments in 0.7.1. 05:12:27 Has this been fixed and what should it be? 05:12:42 It's been fixed. 05:12:51 Right now the line has (CHUNK-BEFORE? next b), when the arity is 3. 05:12:54 It takes 3 arguments. 05:13:19 What should I put there? 05:13:22 that line should be (chunk-before? cnk next b) 05:13:51 foof: Great, thanks. 05:14:03 And that's already been fixed in 0.7.2, which is available. 05:14:15 Oh, I should upgrade. :-) 05:14:29 What would be the most appropriate version for Chez Scheme? 05:14:37 0.7.2 05:14:40 Straight R5RS or a different version? 05:15:10 Straight R5RS. (load "irregex.scm") should work in any R5RS Scheme. 05:16:10 bsmntbombdood_ [n=gavin@97-118-129-213.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 05:16:36 foof: Is there a reason to run a different version (speed?) 05:16:40 I have another plt question... 05:16:41 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-129-213.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:16:52 Who was the one who wanted to see my mod_lisp code when it was at least partially working? 05:17:26 If a thread is to channel-put a result, but it dies with an exception, how do you re-raise the exception in the other thread? 05:17:35 Chicken still uses 0.6.x, but that's because it's smaller, there would be no significant speed difference. 05:18:26 Do you channel-put the exception? Do you just channel-put a generic "thread failed" message? How do you just use the value that was put, without getting something nasty like "Can't string-append exceptions dumbass" 05:18:26 synx: You still interested in seeing the mod_lisp code I have? 05:18:49 arcfide: oh, sure. 05:18:58 maybe it'll help with my http client programming. 05:18:58 synx: It's not nearly STABLE/PRODUCTION quality yet, but it's working to the point that I can serve pages from it. 05:19:15 I've got it down pat I think... except for exceptions. Those cause it all to hang xp 05:20:29 You have a CVS URL you mentioned? 05:31:14 ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 05:32:42 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:35:26 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 05:43:36 Good night all. 05:43:43 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-228.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Sleep"] 05:59:05 vy [n=user@213.139.194.186] has joined #scheme 05:59:08 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-215.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:24:26 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:24:43 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 06:25:41 mike [n=m@dslb-088-067-040-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 06:26:09 -!- mike is now known as Guest15678 06:29:47 -!- eno 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[n=nils@vpn1216.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit ["leaving"] 11:42:44 luz [n=davids@189.122.117.82] has joined #scheme 11:44:53 ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@59.172.141.201] has joined #scheme 11:51:15 -!- ziggurat [n=ziggurat@pool-173-57-57-115.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:05:39 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:12:20 -!- Guest15678 [n=m@dslb-088-067-040-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:22:25 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:52:04 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:52:52 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 13:06:16 bruegmann [n=bruegman@fahrbahn.ptt.uni-duisburg.de] has joined #scheme 13:07:11 hello 13:09:31 i have a question: i want to break a computation after some known point of work and store the current state onto disk for later easy resume with arbitrary computations 13:10:05 whats the easiest way to do this? 13:11:22 i have tried a little bit with call/cc but it did not work for me (user error i guess) 13:12:24 i have tried with assigning the computation result to a top level value and then serializing this value but when deserializing the types differ 13:12:59 use an implementation that allows serializing closures (e.g. gambit) 13:13:21 i can't switch implementation, it has to be sisc 13:14:06 I forget, can SISC serialize closures? 13:15:44 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:15:46 What's wrong with classic state save? 13:16:09 i don't know, it's the first time i do serialization stuff, but maybe it is here: http://sisc-scheme.org/manual/html/ch11.html#serialization 13:16:16 Like we do it in Real Programs written in Real Programming Languages. 13:16:32 ASau: It's a lot of dumb work 13:16:46 If saving a continuation is all there's to it, it's much more elegant and simple, and less errorprone 13:16:48 sjamaan: Usually you have clear state in that case. 13:17:04 Not really 13:17:11 It's easy to forget to restore part of the state 13:18:09 Not, if you use state object to store it. 13:18:47 But that could make it unnatural, you'd have to stuff all the state in a designated object (or set of objects) 13:19:02 It depends. 13:19:08 Yes, it all depends 13:19:24 the problem i have with the above URL is that it describes java - i want a scheme solution if possible... 13:19:25 So continuation serialisation might well be a valid solution 13:19:26 Usually (in Real Programs ;) you have such state. 13:19:33 So please troll of with your Real Program bullshit 13:19:47 bruegmann: we have EQUIVALENCE :) 13:22:16 i thought it would be easy like this (call/cc (lambda (k) (set! *top-level-cont* k) (save-cont-to-disk k) (thunk))) where thunk is the thunk with the work to be done after resume but the continuation was too small for real resume 13:22:44 sjamaan: http://www.lisperati.com/landoflisp/f018.png 13:23:20 wtf 13:23:59 It all reminds me about this "Follow the simple rules, functional programming is beautiful, you'll never have to worry." 13:24:02 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:24:44 Though persistency is a nice thing, if easy done. 13:24:46 functional programming _is_ beautiful, and if it solves a problem in a simple way why would you not do it functionally? 13:24:59 Esp. when it is orthogonal. 13:27:25 lisppaste: url 13:27:25 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 13:28:38 foof pasted "saving loop state" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77915 13:28:45 foof: sisc can serialize any value: http://sisc-scheme.org/manual/html/ch05.html#SerialIO 13:29:13 bruegmann: That's portable and doesn't rely on any serializations. 13:29:23 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 13:29:32 ... assuming the loop values can be serialized. 13:30:03 wow 13:30:25 It doesn't need continuations either, but does assume the loop is primitive recursive with no dependence on outside state (e.g. ports or mutable global variables). 13:31:31 It reduces original task to saving state object. 13:32:06 Original complaint was about those "mutable global variables". 13:32:11 i had to do things like this: (load a) (load b) ... (break-and-save-to-disk) (exit) 13:32:18 (Like "variable" may be "immutable." :) 13:32:30 and then open a new session and resume 13:33:11 so R5RS-load is not possible, isn't it? 13:33:19 ? 13:33:58 eehm - i am thinking about how it works... 13:34:55 can i use load ? 13:35:55 That macro just saves the current local state of the loop - everything else is untouched. 13:36:48 ok, but the session can be terminated and resumed later in a new session, can it? 13:37:01 So, a typical use case would be a program which loads everything you need, defines the loop, looks to see if there is a save file, and if so run it, otherwise run with the initial values. 13:37:19 borism [n=boris@195.50.201.96] has joined #scheme 13:37:41 yes, that's exactly what i wanted to do! thank you! wow! ;-) 13:38:16 I've thought about that exact problem a lot :) 13:38:27 -v 13:38:43 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195.50.200.243] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:39:05 did you have a lot of things like that to compute or was it the theoretical problem you were thinking about? 13:39:28 A lot of things to compute. Notably chess. 13:39:53 aahh - you have a scheme implemented chess? *g* 13:39:58 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 13:40:00 But anything that takes a long time to compute where you want to pause and think about what's going on. 13:42:32 wow - i tried it a few days (yes, it took me that long to experiment) - and i was not able to do it, even with some examples from continuation based webservers, so because i had no time left i continued with recomputing each time, but this is really annoying... 13:43:10 thank you! i'll test it the next days 13:45:53 i have another question on this: i compute some graphs, each is constructed via syntax, i.e. generate-temporaries, the definition of that graph-types they will be different in each session, how should i handle this? 13:46:41 sphex_ [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 13:46:57 is it possible to load the definitions inside the loop? 13:47:08 and to resume them? 13:47:26 You can save and load anything you want manually. 13:47:55 The macro I gave will only save loop variables. If you make everything you need a loop variable, life is simple. 13:50:58 hmm. still thinking about how this could work with my type-definitions 13:50:59 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 13:52:11 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-201-204.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 13:57:30 -!- ASau [n=user@host224-230-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off!"] 14:01:24 -!- sphex [n=nobody@modemcable185.138-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:03:41 bitwiser_ [n=fluffy@67.23.4.171] has joined #scheme 14:07:25 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-131.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 14:08:22 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 14:09:02 npe [n=npe@219.39.114.109] has joined #scheme 14:11:00 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 14:13:08 foof` [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 14:13:56 -!- npe [n=npe@219.39.114.109] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 14:15:02 Archville [n=Archvill@11.Red-79-150-207.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 14:15:11 hi 14:15:15 mib_wlo7qm [i=4f340c0b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ad68acfdf340b354] has joined #scheme 14:15:50 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:16:10 npe [n=npe@softbank219039114109.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 14:17:22 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:17:40 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 14:18:13 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:19:34 -!- mib_wlo7qm [i=4f340c0b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ad68acfdf340b354] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 14:21:10 -!- foof [n=user@163.221.157.46] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:21:46 mike [n=m@p4FD20E08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 14:22:21 -!- mike is now known as Guest34636 14:22:49 Victorr [n=Victorr@modemcable247.139-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 14:23:15 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 14:23:52 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-73-65.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:36:26 -!- Victorr [n=Victorr@modemcable247.139-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 14:36:41 Victorr [n=Victorr@modemcable247.139-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 14:38:37 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 14:41:22 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:52:01 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 14:58:16 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has quit ["..."] 15:01:04 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:14:18 -!- Guest34636 [n=m@p4FD20E08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:15:20 -!- ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:21:18 -!- foof` is now known as goog 15:21:21 -!- goog is now known as foof 15:29:49 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-131.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 15:32:58 -!- pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 15:34:18 pitui [n=pitui@135.207.174.197] has joined #scheme 15:36:14 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 15:41:29 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:42:37 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-232-197.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 15:42:49 -!- npe [n=npe@softbank219039114109.bbtec.net] has quit [] 15:43:06 -!- mike is now known as Guest18696 15:47:45 Daemmeru` [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 15:47:51 bweaver [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:47:52 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:48:17 hornbeck [n=hornbeck@208.80.65.98] has joined #scheme 15:49:22 Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has joined #scheme 15:49:29 -!- Daemmeru` [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:14:55 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit ["leaving"] 16:19:04 -!- hornbeck [n=hornbeck@208.80.65.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:20:17 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-228.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 16:28:16 -!- brandelune [n=suzume@pl064.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [] 16:30:39 breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 16:36:26 bughunter2 [n=j@ip4da4427e.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #scheme 16:36:36 elderK: hey, ye schemer :D 16:40:20 tonyg [n=tonyg@128.54.30.135] has joined #scheme 16:40:57 how can I find the nth element in a list? 16:41:13 list-ref 16:41:15 -!- tonyg [n=tonyg@128.54.30.135] has left #scheme 16:41:48 thanks 16:42:25 McManiaC [n=nils@vpn1216.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #scheme 16:45:51 now build your own with car, cdr, -, and zero?. 16:48:17 -!- aardvarc is now known as aardvarq 16:48:52 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-151-204-128-198.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:57:39 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 17:07:49 -!- p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@81.167.54.222.static.lyse.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 17:11:24 p1dzkl [i=p1dzkl@81.167.54.222.static.lyse.net] has joined #scheme 17:16:16 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 17:17:58 -!- Archville [n=Archvill@11.Red-79-150-207.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit ["it's full of pixels!"] 17:21:09 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-328674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:25:45 -!- Guest18696 [n=m@dslb-088-066-232-197.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:25:46 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-328674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:26:14 Cale_ [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 17:27:13 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 17:27:38 -!- Cale [n=Cale@CPE001c10c70239-CM000e5cdd834a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:27:41 -!- Cale_ is now known as Cale 17:27:45 somewhat OT: is there a linux primitive like a fifo, but doesn't block? (if it needs to throw away earlier 'messages', it's okay) 17:28:09 basically, whenever I cd to a different directory, i want this other scheme program to know that i'm changing directories 17:28:16 but if it's not running, i don't want cd to block :-) 17:28:24 so a fifo ... won't do 17:28:33 barney [n=bernhard@p549A1D39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:35:44 lowlycoder: you could write the message to a file, and do 'tail -f' from your other program 17:37:19 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 17:42:08 milky_cereals [n=milky@65-126-216-124.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 17:44:48 Like a socket? 17:44:52 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-21.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 17:45:49 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 17:48:00 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 17:53:46 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 17:55:33 lowlycoder: Sounds like a UNIX pipe type thing to me. 17:56:26 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 17:57:20 -!- synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:58:42 synx [i=synx@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0xA71B0C6A] has joined #scheme 17:58:53 ejs [n=eugen@166-81-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 18:00:43 -!- breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:00:54 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 18:01:01 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Client Quit] 18:03:01 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 18:03:22 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 18:03:48 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:10 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 18:04:17 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit [Client Quit] 18:07:44 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 18:10:21 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 18:12:48 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-123-75.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 18:27:48 Bah, I hate this. I can't tell if the bug is a race condition in my own code, Chez Scheme's code, or OpenBSD's pthread library, or something else. Bah. 18:28:07 pick the obvious one, you :p 18:28:23 leppie: Tried it, and I can't for the life of me see any opportunity for race conditions. 18:28:45 It's a simple socket accept -> spawn thread loop. 18:29:06 and what happens? 18:30:08 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:30:08 Something blocks threads from executing, and they just get queued up. The server continues to accept connections, and spawns more threads, but the threads never get executed until I hit Ctrl-C and send a break signal, at which point, all the threads are freed up and executed just fine. 18:31:02 The funny thing is that if I set a trace on the ACCEPT-SOCKET procedure that returns these sockets, or I Wrap the call in a CRITICAL-SECTION expression, this issue completely disappears and I can't find it anywhere. 18:31:06 how many are you talking about? 18:31:34 leppie: As many as I want. About the first seventeen connections go fine for me, until the 18th, and that one freezes. 18:32:14 you sure you are not using some 'threadpool' ? 18:32:23 theadpool? 18:32:41 I mean, what you said. 18:32:59 let me find an explaination 18:33:11 minion: advice for arcfide 18:33:12 arcfide: #11913: Gee, I don't know. I wonder what the manual says about that? 18:33:24 Sorry, minion, I tried that one. 18:34:17 Why doesn't minion's advice include handing me a glass of Brandy or Scotch or Whiskey or Gin? 18:34:23 bascially a threadpool is like a queue for threads to prevent too many running at the same time 18:34:52 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:35:05 leppie: I thought about that. I don't know what implementation is occuring underneath, but that doesn't seem to make much sense to me, since they don't ever start running once the other threads stop. 18:35:17 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:35:51 And moreover, it doesn't happen like this if I do that wrapping. 18:36:36 wierd 18:37:21 Yes. 18:37:27 Weird is the right word. 18:37:38 And I can't understand why it would do that. 18:37:52 synx: Did that mod-lisp stuff seem clear enough to you? 18:39:29 Clearly if your stuck it's best to withhold your code. 18:39:45 Riastradh: Hehe, I was wondering when you were going to say that. 18:41:02 Arelius_ [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 18:43:09 arcfide pasted "General Issue Description" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77935 18:45:18 -!- mreggen [n=mreggen@cm-84.215.50.79.getinternet.no] has quit ["leaving"] 18:45:34 (What does the word `maxconn' mean? And the word `ret'? And why are socks involved?) 18:46:53 What is a `CRITICAL SECTION', exactly? 18:47:28 CRITICAL-SECTION just disables interrupts in a "reliable" way. 18:48:07 I believe that it causes the code to execute without interruption as a sort of atomic unit to some degree. 18:48:15 What do interrupts have to do with pthreads? 18:49:02 Nothing that I know of. 18:49:18 This sounds like a job for printf debugging. 18:49:28 Riastradh: Lot's of that has been done. 18:49:28 Also for ktrace. 18:49:35 Did you have a specific one in mind? 18:49:43 A specific what? 18:50:11 lisppaste doesn't like my code pasting; it thinks it is too long. Do you want me to mail the code or put it online some other way? 18:50:23 Riastradh: A specific printf placement you were curious about? 18:50:29 I have to vanish now anyway; present it however you think would be most informative. 18:51:13 No, nothing specific in mind, but clearly something is stopping and you don't know what or where exactly, so printf may help for that. 18:51:49 (Also, by the way, please read the most recent entry in before taking permanent, irreversible actions in DYNAMIC-WIND after thunks.) 18:51:52 *Riastradh* vanishes. 18:51:54 Well, using printf's, I did discover that the FORK-THREAD and the ACCEPT-SOCKET loop all run fine. The thunk passed to FORK-THREAD doesn't run, however, once it is stopped. 18:53:15 By, "once it is stopped," I mean, once the threads have been stopped in some magical way that I do not yet understand. 18:55:03 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:56:26 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-4-140.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:00:43 -!- Daemmerung [n=goetter@1133sae.mazama.net] has quit ["Smoove out."] 19:02:50 I'd like a promise that blocks on force until a procedure is called in another thread. Then either it returns a value or raises an exception if the other thread dies for some reason. I'm not sure what to call that sort of thing... 19:03:07 Scheme48 calls them placeholders. 19:03:47 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-FIFTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:04:43 It didn't seem strange in any way arcfide. I'm not extremely familiar with scheme48 though. 19:06:22 syx: Scheme48? 19:08:20 uh... chez? I forget what weirdo scheme you use :) 19:08:37 LOL 19:08:38 Every scheme is kind of weird... 19:12:26 -!- dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:13:26 "In the future, it may be possible to signal or kill threads using the thread object as a handle on the thread." <-- o.O 19:13:41 Eh? 19:13:46 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-123-75.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 19:13:56 Sounds like something out of Chez's manual. 19:14:00 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A1D39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:15:31 Yes, well I was trying to figure out what this fork-thread you use is. 19:15:37 Oh. 19:15:42 Did you figure out? 19:16:37 ...no 19:16:37 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-328674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17:02 But it does seem rather worrying that you couldn't signal or kill a thread. 19:17:23 synx: FORK-THREAD accepts a thunk and spawns a new thread, and returns a thread object as its result. 19:17:58 synx: It is possible to workaround that. Right now it is possible to suspend/kill/signal threads using timers in Chez. 19:18:34 It's more like an "Ask nicely" type thing rather than a forced kill though that happens immediately. 19:20:00 They're just native threads such as you create using pthreads. 19:20:07 I mean even pthreads has pthread_cancel 19:20:22 That wouldn't explain why your threads are hanging though. 19:20:23 Oh it also says "The thread system is implemented on top of the Posix thread system (pthreads)" go figure. 19:20:58 Yes, it would be nice to have a KILL-THREAD that worked for all threads. 19:21:02 Are you in a 32 bit system? 19:21:09 Yes. 19:23:43 That would likely limit you to about 4096 threads max, but it _still_ wouldn't explain why your threads are hanging. 19:23:48 egosh [n=Miranda@212.106.50.56] has joined #scheme 19:24:26 Yeah, that's certainly not causing the probem. :-) 19:24:49 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-328674.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 19:25:10 I actually tried stressing just the spawning and using of threads, but that works like a charm. I can spawn and use as many threads as I want. I just takes a long time to complete if I saturate the processor. 19:28:01 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.140.9] has joined #scheme 19:28:47 maybe socket->port is what's hanging... I dunno, try sprinkling debug prints in there? 19:29:17 Yeah, and when the threads hang, the thunk there is never entered. 19:29:30 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has joined #scheme 19:29:34 So SOCKET->PORT never actually runs. 19:37:03 um...hm 19:37:19 dangit, lazy can't handle multiple values? 19:37:32 rudybot: eval (force (lazy (values 2 3 4))) 19:37:33 synx: error: context expected 1 value, received 3 values: 2 3 4 19:37:49 saccade__ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-70-132.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 19:38:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@166-81-179-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:38:08 rudybot: eval (force (delay (values 2 3 4))) 19:38:10 arcfide: your sandbox is ready 19:38:10 arcfide: ; Value: 2 19:38:10 -!- SharkBrain` is now known as SharkBrain 19:38:11 arcfide: ; Value#2: 3 19:38:12 arcfide: ; Value#3: 4 19:38:53 What differs between LAZY and DELAY? 19:39:12 ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has joined #scheme 19:39:17 I still say (a (b)) should have the same behavior as ((compose a b)). multiple return values are way too hard to work with. 19:39:37 rudybot: eval (force (delay (delay 23))) 19:39:37 synx: ; Value: # 19:39:50 rudybot: eval (force (lazy (lazy 42))) 19:39:50 synx: ; Value: 42 19:40:58 synx: How are multiple values difficult to use? 19:41:07 synx: You don't use CALL-WITH-VALUES, do you? 19:41:17 You use something like LET-VALUES or RECEIVE, right? 19:41:44 Well for one example (lazy (values 2 3 4)) returns what looks like a perfectly good promise, but only errors out when you try to force it. 19:42:37 It just makes intuitive sense to me for ((lambda (a b c) (+ a b c)) (values 2 3 4)) to be equivalent to ((lambda (a b c) (+ a b c)) 2 3 4) 19:44:07 You end up with things absolutely requiring a single return value, when all they intended to do was provide some assistance like lazy evaluation and not mess with return values at all. It's just hard to anticipate when you have to explicitly declare you're not using just one return value everywhere you do. 19:44:35 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-101-21.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:44:37 I mean you have to do that, therefore it's hard to anticipate when you'll get multiple values. 19:45:09 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-FIVE-FIFTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:45:24 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-131.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:46:16 arcfide: `lazy' creates a "composable" promise, as in srfi-41 19:46:37 synx: of course you get the error when you try to `force' it -- it's still lazy. 19:46:45 rudybot: eval (define (shootim when) (lazy (values when when))) 19:46:59 rudybot: eval (define foo (shootim "wait until you get home")) 19:47:06 rudybot: foo 19:47:07 synx: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 19:47:10 rudybot: (force foo) 19:47:10 synx: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 19:47:14 awr 19:47:16 rudybot: eval (force foo) 19:47:16 synx: error: context expected 1 value, received 2 values: "wait until you get home" "wait until you get home" 19:47:38 *eli* wonders what was that about 19:48:08 ffx` [n=ffx@60-241-74-240.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #scheme 19:50:36 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 19:51:25 synx: What do you do with ((lambda (a b c) ...) (values 1 2) 3)? 19:51:55 (NOT (EQUAL? VALUES LIST)) => #t. 19:53:16 eli: Yeah, but it's still annoying. Lazy should accept multiple values. 19:54:24 is there any library for binary IO that's similar to the way erlang deals with binary objects? 19:54:42 ecraven: How does erlang deal with binary I/O? 19:55:02 ecraven: The only binary library I know of is the SRFI for handling binary data and R6RS's binary ports. 19:55:26 Well, it's time for me to go. 19:55:30 See everyone later. 19:55:34 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-200-228.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Work"] 19:56:44 ejs [n=eugen@21-162-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 19:58:46 synx: it could -- I had several versions of the code, one that did it; but the problem is that then `lazy' promises become about 1.5 to 2 times slower. 20:04:02 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:04:51 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:07 benny` [n=benny@i577A1BC1.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 20:05:31 rudybot: later tell arcfide there's a literal syntax for matching binary data, so you can specify your "packet" and then match a binary input stream, and automatically get a bunch of bindings (see for example http://ruslanspivak.com/2007/09/09/erlang-for-python-programmers-part-i/ the part about "bit syntax") 20:05:32 minion: memo for arcfide: ecraven told me to tell you: there's a literal syntax for matching binary data, so you can specify your "packet" and then match a binary input stream, and automatically get a bunch of bindings (see for example http://ruslanspivak.com/2007/09/09/erlang-for-python-programmers-part-i/ the part about "bit syntax") 20:05:32 Remembered. I'll tell arcfide when he/she/it next speaks. 20:05:47 lol, ok, next time i'll tell you directly, minion :P 20:06:01 minion: chant! 20:06:01 MORE SO IN LISP 20:06:35 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 20:06:45 minion: memo for arcfide: also see http://www.erlang.se/euc/00/bit_syntax.html 20:06:46 Remembered. I'll tell arcfide when he/she/it next speaks. 20:06:49 lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has joined #scheme 20:07:36 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:08:33 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 20:08:50 So this feature turned out to be useful for more sarahbot refugees. 20:09:42 ecraven: I've added code that makes it easy to make rudybot deliver messages himself, but offby1 liked the hack better. 20:09:48 rudybot: chant 20:09:48 minion: chant 20:09:48 MORE SARAHBOT 20:10:59 -!- mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:45 mejja [n=user@c-f6b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:12:34 more sarahbot indeed 20:15:13 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 20:17:46 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:17:57 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-131.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:19:49 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:19:53 yes 20:20:05 is sarahbot dead? 20:20:14 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A090C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22:15 -!- ejs [n=eugen@21-162-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 20:23:18 hello, welcome to last year 20:25:05 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has left #scheme 20:31:20 -!- benny` is now known as benny 20:31:52 -!- kazzmir [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:35:00 I was wondering where she'd gone :( 20:35:48 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-131.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 20:39:34 aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 20:45:41 -!- lowlycoder [n=x@unaffiliated/lowlycoder] has quit ["leaving"] 20:45:45 arcfide [n=arcfide@iub-vpn-204-174.noc.indiana.edu] has joined #scheme 20:45:51 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:46:08 I'm baaaack. *hehhe* 20:46:09 arcfide, memo from rudybot: ecraven told me to tell you: there's a literal syntax for matching binary data, so you can specify your "packet" and then match a binary input stream, and automatically get a bunch of bindings (see for example http://ruslanspivak.com/2007/09/09/erlang-for-python-programmers-part-i/ the part about "bit syntax") 20:46:09 arcfide, memo from ecraven: also see http://www.erlang.se/euc/00/bit_syntax.html 20:46:19 :) 20:46:49 arcfide: also this: http://www.postneo.com/2007/08/10/erlang-bit-syntax-and-network-programming 20:46:53 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/cwfucs 20:46:55 show's a nice example 20:47:00 s/'// 20:47:10 (?? what was I thinking there??) 20:47:32 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has left #scheme 20:50:23 ecraven: Just looking at it, vectors or bytevectors would work just fine for such things, and a simple match on top of it could be written very easily. 20:51:01 yes, I didn't mean to imply it's impossible, just asking whether anyone has already done it : 20:51:15 gustavold [n=gustavol@taubate.lcpd.ime.usp.br] has joined #scheme 20:51:39 kazzmir [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:51:44 ecraven: No, yeah, I don't know that I've seen exactly that, but there's a SRFI for the binary octet based conversions, and if you combine that with a proper MATCHER to populate the bytevector, you'll be fine. I think the matcher would be easy to write. 20:51:53 -!- wrldpc [n=worldpea@pool-173-48-214-204.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 20:51:58 what means the keyword "local" ? 20:52:22 gustavold: methink you're in the wrong channel. ;-) In #scheme LOCAL is whatever you want it to be. 20:52:38 s/methink/methinks/ 20:53:03 Scheme doesn't even have real keywords :) 20:53:54 jonrafkind [n=jon@wsip-70-164-250-248.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #scheme 20:54:47 arcfide: I'm reading the book: "Programming Languages: Application and Interpretation" and found this word. So, probably it is from the library they supply, I will check it. 20:59:34 incubot: we used to flirt with sarahbot in 2007, but then she renounced her belief in the Users and joined the MCP; she now resides in the ENCOM mainframe 20:59:38 if sarahbot's gonna flirt with me, I'll flirt back. 21:00:37 ah; bot-chauvinism 21:00:47 hornbeck [n=hornbeck@99-203-62-116.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #scheme 21:02:08 -!- hornbeck [n=hornbeck@99-203-62-116.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:16:43 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:24:02 incubot: You're too young for sarahbot, you're not her type. 21:24:05 seems like more people are playing ping-pong on IRC now, than back in The Day when I was a young man. 21:24:44 incubot: pocket ping-pong? 21:24:47 rcassidy [n=rcassidy@129.10.228.94] has joined #scheme 21:24:47 pong 21:27:02 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-247-201-204.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:30:15 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:31:23 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:31:43 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:32:10 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:34:57 -!- Victorr [n=Victorr@modemcable247.139-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 21:37:26 -!- rcassidy [n=rcassidy@129.10.228.94] has quit [] 21:42:06 -!- bsmntbombdood_ [n=gavin@97-118-129-213.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:42:39 bsmntbombdood_ [n=gavin@97-118-131-76.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 21:46:53 -!- gustavold [n=gustavol@taubate.lcpd.ime.usp.br] has left #scheme 21:47:45 -!- McManiaC [n=nils@vpn1216.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 21:49:35 McManiaC [n=nils@vpn1216.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #scheme 21:51:16 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-37-78.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:51:30 presto [n=presto@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 21:51:49 -!- presto [n=presto@unaffiliated/aaco] has left #scheme 21:53:09 -!- davidad1 [n=me@NORTHWEST-THIRTYFIVE-FOUR-TWENTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:53:13 -!- ASau [n=user@83.69.240.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:53:58 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.181.75] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:54:27 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 21:54:36 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 22:04:59 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76-217-6-100.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 22:06:00 rcassidy [n=rcassidy@129.10.228.94] has joined #scheme 22:06:52 -!- rcassidy [n=rcassidy@129.10.228.94] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:19 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 22:21:16 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054467.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:25:24 guinness [n=guinness@132.207.182.47] has joined #scheme 22:26:37 hey, can anyone help me with the openssl library 22:27:07 I'm trying to read a rsa pem and get the n and e 22:28:21 eli: Well forget that then! I can use delay. I can use delay. Or, you know, lambda. 22:30:07 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 22:33:07 elderK1 [n=zk@222-152-12-191.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 22:35:16 -!- saccade__ [n=saccade@dhcp-18-188-70-132.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:44:27 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@141.157.248.6] has joined #scheme 22:46:20 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 22:48:04 -!- elderK [n=zk@122-57-250-128.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:55:43 -!- guinness [n=guinness@132.207.182.47] has quit ["ircII EPIC4-2.10 -- Are we there yet?"] 23:01:49 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-72-131.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 23:03:06 jao [n=jao@obfw.oblong.net] has joined #scheme 23:04:48 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEB48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 23:04:58 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 23:05:41 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:14:42 breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 23:17:19 pants1 [n=hkarau@75-119-226-130.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:19:00 pants2 [n=hkarau@206-248-129-226.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #scheme 23:19:02 -!- pants1 [n=hkarau@75-119-226-130.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:21:33 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:22:24 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:24:44 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:26:53 Hey eli, do you know why mzscheme or mred can't continue from one thread to another, but drscheme can? 23:27:20 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:29:11 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:30:02 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:30:04 I could understand if they all had a continuation barrier put up. Doing that really doesn't make all /that/ much sense. But what exists kind of worries me. 23:33:14 [mark] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has joined #scheme 23:34:35 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 23:36:38 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:38:41 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 23:42:06 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:42:23 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:45:25 -!- arcfide [n=arcfide@iub-vpn-204-174.noc.indiana.edu] has quit ["It works!"] 23:52:08 egosh262 [n=Miranda@212.106.37.80] has joined #scheme 23:52:18 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:56:52 -!- egosh [n=Miranda@212.106.50.56] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]