00:01:54 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:02:20 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:06:47 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:07:53 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:10:29 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-44-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 00:10:34 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:10:35 -!- felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Client Quit] 00:10:37 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:10:51 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:13:25 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 00:14:38 -!- lde [n=user@184-dzi-2.acn.waw.pl] has quit [No route to host] 00:16:18 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-142-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 00:16:40 -!- borism__ [n=boris@195-50-205-214-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:17:09 SugarGlider [n=stevie@dyn-203-143-164-139.qrl.nicta.com.au] has joined #scheme 00:17:35 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:18:12 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:18:48 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 00:19:17 -!- vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:21:19 Elly, the difference between saving all variables and saving only the referenced ones is that the former may cause space leaks easily. 00:22:09 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-44-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:22:19 whereas the latter is eagerly wasting space 00:23:09 (as compared to long chains of references) 00:23:20 *`sorrow`* good night !!! 00:23:46 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@cpe-069-134-114-252.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["He rode off into the sunset. . ."] 00:23:52 -!- `sorrow` [n=kvirc@92.4.210.217] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 00:24:00 hm. is there a way in mit-scheme to get the source location (file, line) of a procedure's definition (given the procedure's name)? of a macro? 00:24:25 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-4-158.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:24:28 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:24:29 No. 00:24:30 hark [n=strider@2001:5c0:1101:7000:223:4dff:fe7d:331a] has joined #scheme 00:24:45 thanks. 00:24:48 If the debugging information is available, you can pretty-print its source, however, with the PP procedure. 00:25:13 yes, i found that. 00:26:58 wingo-tp [n=wingo@133.Red-83-36-163.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 00:27:02 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:27:04 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B057998.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:22 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:27:24 -!- Dezlagrate [n=Dezlagra@unaffiliated/dezlagrate] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:27:24 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:34:18 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:35:00 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:35:17 RageOfThou: That was a very nice mistake you did yesterday. I really enjoyed it. 00:35:21 synx: ping 00:35:51 the song? 00:35:55 Yes. 00:36:23 heh, I'm listening to it now :D 00:37:14 what song? 00:37:23 Fare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh8Unxua1qY 00:38:31 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 00:41:03 Someone should start a Lisp/Scheme group for music. 00:41:18 Probably the same amount of flamewars, but at least they'll be more interesting. 00:42:42 felipe [n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #scheme 00:49:06 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:51:19 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-326558.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:52:09 -!- jjong [n=user@203.246.179.177] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:53:29 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:53:50 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 00:54:16 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 00:56:52 CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 01:01:40 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 01:03:45 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF4D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:05:19 AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 01:16:16 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:19:13 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF310.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:19:32 eli: TCP congestion, for about half hour or so 01:22:04 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:22:14 error_de6eloper_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 01:23:27 synx: I'm getting complaints about email bouncing from your address. 01:23:54 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:23:59 synx: Also, http://tmp.barzilay.org/x -- that's what I meant earlier. 01:35:25 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 01:46:12 benny` [n=benny@i577A0F69.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 01:46:20 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-222-108-52.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 01:46:57 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 01:47:51 eli: That's because it's a bad address. Comcast blocks me from receiving email. 01:48:55 hah, that pointer->integer thing is a neat trick. No need to malloc a 4 byte pointer though when you can just cast it to an int. 01:50:38 not a big deal really though, because as you say getting a pointer's address isn't really useful. Good for tracking down double frees of uncollected memory though. 01:52:07 synx: Then subscribe using whatever email you have that actually works. 01:53:28 eli: Wouldn't the list absorb bounces anyway? I haven't been using it. 01:53:37 The one time I did, I used a gmail address. 01:53:53 All hail our lord and master etc 01:54:04 synx: Re the allocation of a pointer (not always 4 bytes, of course), yes -- it's not a problem because (a) it's useful only for debugging, (b) having a Scheme solution is far better than another api function in C, (c) it's just a pointer -- think about `cons'. 01:54:34 I guess I just don't care that much about email. It's too difficult for too little a reward, and people think it gives you some kind of credibility when it's just pomp. 01:55:18 Nobody I know thinks that email gives you credibility. Not for the last decade at least. 01:55:22 I can't send email with that address though so can't really cancel. 01:55:39 It's just a convenient way to communicate, that's all. 01:55:45 Then why does every website registration on the globe require confirmation emails? 01:55:51 The error that the last complain had was: 01:56:07 (expanded from ): temporary failure. 01:56:13 Command output: connect: No such file or directory 01:56:42 So it looks like it got through to your machine and had problems there -- and your mail server responded to the sender instead of to the list. 01:57:13 As for website registration -- it's just what I said -- it allows web sites to communicate with you, so it's a good requirement. 01:57:21 That's literally impossible. Comcast blocks all incoming packets on port 25. 01:57:55 I doubt that "No such file or directory" was an error the comcast server sent. 01:58:04 And websites communicate with me using POST forms. The email thing is just because they're under the illusion that it helps security, instead of just giving people a hard time. 01:58:22 That's a very bogus argument. 01:58:31 Comcast doesn't relay my email either. They block the packets on a TCP level. 01:59:07 Websites cannot communicate with you via POST when they want to inform you that your account is going to be disabled. 01:59:16 orgy__ [n=ratm_@pD9FFE432.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:59:43 Well that's true eli, but it doesn't explain why you can't register without a confirmation email. 01:59:48 Also, it's an easy way to make sure that you're "you", where "you" is someone that was able to authenticate with the mail address. 02:00:12 Like I said, the illusion that it helps security. 02:00:34 That's not an illusion! 02:01:04 They could also require you send them a video of you tap dancing on the roof. Is it faked? Oh no couldn't possibly. But you better do it or else you can forget about signing up! 02:01:10 It doesn't help the security of the website -- of course it doesn't, they *want* it to be open for every one. 02:01:42 It only helps the security of *communicating* with you, I truly don't see what's not clear about it. 02:02:16 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A02FC.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:02:22 I'm just saying email is completely unauthenticatable. I could understand if a website identified you by your client certificate, but to require a confirmation email is just making you jump through hoops to satisfy some bureacracy standard. 02:03:03 Personally, as someone whose email is very known publicly, I appreciate the fact that the next time you subscribe to some porn site you won't be able to use my email to subscribe, flooding my mailbox with unwanted spam. 02:03:42 eww, porn /and/ spam 02:03:51 To be able to do that (register using my email), you'll need to have my password -- so as far as I'm concerned, the security point is most definitely valid. 02:04:26 It has absolutely *nothing* related to bureaucracy. 02:04:32 It's security that only fails when it needs not to fail. 02:04:58 Obviously, no such site cares whether I'm *me* -- all they care about is a valid email address. 02:05:19 davidad [n=me@wireless-25-95.media.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 02:05:28 Why do they care about a valid email address? That's a hard thing to get sometimes! 02:05:38 For all they know, I'm some sophisticated bot. 02:05:52 -!- error_de6eloper_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:05:55 A valid email is hard to get?? 02:06:00 It's a lot of time and trouble, routing and hacks and proxies and fake relays, and for what, to identify that someone is receiving emails? 02:06:04 You do live somewhere on planet earth, right? 02:06:08 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 02:06:33 What's a lot of time and trouble? Sending an email? 02:06:37 Receiving an email? 02:06:46 Getting a stupid email account? 02:06:49 I can install a client certificate pretty easily. But an email I need to get from some bully authority somewhere. 02:07:27 Just curious, synx -- do you realize how absurd you sound to someone who is not you? I ask candidly. 02:07:39 Show me a "bully authority" and I'll show you a company that does you a favor and doesn't ask that you pay for it. 02:07:40 And then I have to figure how to deal with that giant faceless monster and actually get the emails in a concise manner. 02:08:05 Free as in free beer does not mean free as in freedom. :( 02:08:19 That's just ridiculous. 02:08:25 I'm tired of free beer. It's warm anyway. 02:08:57 Try to call any of these companies and complain about that -- they'll probably be happy to tell you to not use their email and set up your own server. 02:09:07 -!- orgy__ [n=ratm_@pD9FFE432.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:09:12 Yeah wouldn't that be great. 02:09:20 Except Comcast blocks my email! 02:09:49 But the point is still that on *my* planet, and in the year *I* currently live in, getting an email to subscribe for random services is not difficult, and is not an unreasonable requirement for services that want to communicate with you. 02:10:29 Perhaps you should take a closer look at your planet. 02:11:06 OK, that went below the threshold of what I can waste time on. 02:11:21 synx, please try to make a better effort to explain yourself. Currently you make no sense to someone who is not you, even to someone who might agree with some of what you are saying. 02:11:22 Do you want me to unsubscribe you from the PLT list? 02:11:50 I'm sorry if I'm incoherent Riastradh, it's not intentional. 02:11:52 eli: YES 02:12:02 Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-326558.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 02:12:23 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@133.Red-83-36-163.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:12:31 It doesn't take intent to be incoherent. It may take some effort, however, to be coherent. 02:12:38 eli: That address will never work any time in the near future unless by some miracle I get out of Comcast's yoke and not cut off from the Internet entirely. 02:14:16 synx: with all due respect to your illusion of privacy, I don't care about your comcast problems. 02:14:25 synx: I have unsubscribed "synx13+plt@gmail.com". 02:14:36 wait, what 02:14:49 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF4D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 02:15:00 That's the only email I see with "synx", so I can only assume that it was forwarded to your machine. 02:15:08 Well, I'll try to work it out later. 02:15:25 I can always resubscribe if I want to hassle with it. 02:15:31 In the future, if you want to post a message on the PLT list (using whatever email), feel free to do one of two things: 02:15:31 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:15:45 (a) use an nntp server and post via Gmane, 02:15:45 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 02:15:58 How that gmail email was getting translated to my internal blocked email I have no idea, but I suspect it's because email is hard. 02:16:14 (b) send the email from an unsubscribed address, and hope that I don't confuse your email with the flood of spam that I reject every day. 02:16:16 Oh god, NNTP 02:16:30 There's another un-authorizable protocol. 02:16:35 I DON'T CARE. 02:16:42 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-156-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 02:16:58 Feel free to invent a new `synx' protocol, connect that that to the rest of the emailing world and use it. 02:17:03 I still won't care though. 02:17:19 The most I'll do is roll my eyes, but that shouldn't be surprising. 02:17:19 Well thanks for the advice eli. I may follow it if I ever get it together enough to use a mailing list. 02:17:24 Eli is not the choir, synx. 02:18:52 synx: BTW, the fact that I don't care is not an insult -- I just really can't allocate work cycles on something that is a non-issue from my side of the wire. 02:19:03 Man, even Freenode requires confirmation emails. I just don't get it. 02:19:58 synx: I'll still reply to questions you ask here, assuming I'll continue using IRC. (But I won't serve as a proxy for you, so I might still tell you that you should ask something on the mailing list.) 02:20:25 *eli* continues hacking now... 02:20:48 sheesh 02:23:10 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.150.100] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:24:28 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:27:34 sheesh indeed. 02:28:12 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-154-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:31:33 foof [n=user@pc2.terrac2-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:33:11 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:33:28 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 02:36:43 -!- kazzmir [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:37:57 zbigniew: You can get away with constant-folding a one-time (i.e. top-level) string literal. 02:38:20 So (define str (string-append "foo" "bar")) at the top-level can be optimized to (define str "foobar"). 02:38:36 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:39:33 If you're clever, you can also optimize-away multiple-time strings if you can guarantee it won't be mutated. 02:39:33 kazzmir [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:40:05 This involves a lot of complex analysis, or just recognizing a few special cases like (string-append x "foo" "bar") => (string-append x "foobar"). 02:40:44 But Chicken just always makes this optimization, which is a bug. For example: 02:40:56 (define (make-foobar) (string-append "foo" "bar")) 02:41:19 In compiled Chicken, you get (eq? (make-foobar) (make-foobar)) => #t 02:43:08 But personally I think that even if you allow mutable strings, you should _never_ mutate any string other than one created by `make-string' (and even then only within a limited, well-defined extent), so if you write a program that trips such a bug it's your fault :P 02:43:20 (And so I won't bother mentioning the bug to Felix.) 02:49:19 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-161-14.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:49:37 Riastradh: Clinger is the one beating the "no REPL in R6RS" drum, and the R6RS proponents don't seem to disagree with him (stating only that R6RS implementations can have a REPL, but the REPL itself isn't really R6RS). 02:49:55 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-161-14.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:50:08 So if that's incorrect, it's news to me :) 02:53:25 -!- davidad [n=me@wireless-25-95.media.mit.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:55:12 ObsolEssence [n=user@210.48.104.34] has joined #scheme 02:58:57 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:03:08 a-s` [n=user@92.80.66.203] has joined #scheme 03:08:26 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 03:09:55 wy [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:15:53 good morning foof 03:16:14 offby1` [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 03:16:45 foof: I think it should be mentioned, because if it is not supposed to be mutated, there is no point as far as I can tell to Chicken creating multiple copies of identical string literals. They could be coalesced into a single copy. 03:16:47 morning 03:17:05 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:17:14 rudybot_ [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 03:17:50 -!- a-s [n=user@92.80.114.159] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:18:04 zbigniew: Oh, that's different, you're allowed to create multiple copies of identical string literals. I'm talking about the results of `string-append'. 03:18:07 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 03:18:41 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot__ 03:18:55 -!- rudybot__ is now known as rudybot___ 03:19:07 Yes, you are saying you don't care if the results of string-append are mutable (contra R5RS). But in that case, literal strings need not be mutable either. 03:19:26 So what is the point of multiple copies of identical string literals in memory. 03:19:30 Literal strings _aren't_ mutable in R5RS. 03:19:49 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:19:56 -!- rudybot___ is now known as rudybot 03:20:02 Then *why* would you need more than one copy? 03:20:04 And Chicken _does_ coalesce literal strings. 03:20:06 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 03:20:11 No it does not. 03:20:37 metasyntax [n=user@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:20:48 Check C_toplevel and you will see that multiple identical literals are there. 03:22:34 compile the following program: (print "abc" "abc") 03:22:39 in C_toplevel(): 03:22:40 lf[2]=C_decode_literal(C_heaptop,"\376B\000\000\003abc"); 03:22:40 lf[3]=C_decode_literal(C_heaptop,"\376B\000\000\003abc"); 03:23:05 Yeah but gcc coalesces those for us :) 03:24:17 gcc optimizes C_decode_literal to malloc() only one copy of the literal in static memory when the incoming string pointer is the same? That is amazing. 03:24:31 Those guys are so smart. 03:24:38 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:25:06 Ah, no, gcc will coalesces the C string literals only, Chicken will then decode two copies of the same string. 03:26:42 And copy each one into a fresh string object in memory outside the heap. 03:26:53 yes 03:27:03 Wait, what? 03:27:04 Then *why* would you need more than one copy? 03:27:49 C_decode_literal allocates outside the heap? 03:28:07 (and, no, you're right, it doesn't need more than one copy) 03:28:09 That is what it says. 03:28:22 bsmntbombdood_ [n=gavin@97-118-125-166.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 03:28:29 But that's an optimization. I'm talking about a bug, and about not even mentioning the bug to Felix. 03:28:43 Go ahead and request the optimization :) 03:31:09 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [n=godless@cpe-71-72-235-91.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit ["Over and out"] 03:31:22 My assumption is Felix made those strings copies on purpose (mutability I guess), so would be interested in the string-append bug, as it means the result is not safely mutable. 03:32:37 I assumed he just didn't think it was worth the effort, since you can and arguably should manually collect references to the same string. 03:33:33 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-127-9.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:34:15 And Chicken has never made any attempts to actually prevent you from mutating literals anyway. 03:34:29 It's just "an error," which means the programmer's fault. 03:41:14 -!- metasyntax [n=user@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 03:43:02 (substring "abc" 0) doesn't make a copy either. 03:43:13 ... although it can be handy for macros if the compiler will coalesce for you. 03:43:49 Doesn't make a copy of what? 03:43:58 Of "abc". 03:44:48 It behaves the same as (string-append "abc") 03:47:37 -!- drwhen [n=d@c-69-139-19-235.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:53:17 Well, I am going to the source. :) 03:57:58 raikov [n=igr@p2080-ipbf406marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:09:36 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:10:15 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:10:17 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 04:23:29 npe [i=npe@dn157-088.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 04:26:52 error_de6eloper_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:36:49 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:48:23 The substring procedure returns a newly allocated string 04:48:44 so does string-append 04:51:56 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:56:02 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:57:47 Not in Chicken... 05:02:23 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-156-21.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 05:03:50 -!- npe [i=npe@dn157-088.naist.jp] has quit [] 05:12:17 meanburrito920 [n=John@adsl-76-205-144-72.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:15:07 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 05:23:40 -!- Kusanagi [n=Lernaean@unaffiliated/kusanagi] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 05:23:41 Hydr4 [n=Lernaean@68-184-239-20.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #scheme 05:23:43 -!- Hydr4 is now known as Kusanagi 05:24:41 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #scheme 05:25:32 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-222-108-52.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:09 -!- meanburrito920 [n=John@adsl-76-205-144-72.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 05:32:17 borism [n=boris@195-50-197-157-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 05:39:40 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-199-142-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 05:44:25 kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:50:19 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:02:10 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-161-14.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:02:38 -!- kazzmir [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:14:29 stepnem_ [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 06:15:29 -!- SugarGlider [n=stevie@dyn-203-143-164-139.qrl.nicta.com.au] has quit ["Leaving."] 06:16:22 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:16:33 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:17:59 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 06:20:20 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 06:30:39 jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has joined #scheme 06:31:53 -!- CaptainMorgan [n=CaptainM@c-24-62-183-102.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:34:22 ASau` [n=user@host73-231-msk.microtest.ru] has joined #scheme 06:36:21 nataraj [n=Nataraj@122.174.81.128] has joined #scheme 06:36:28 h 06:36:29 hi 06:37:52 -!- nataraj [n=Nataraj@122.174.81.128] has left #scheme 06:38:10 btw0 [n=wu@219.228.97.243] has joined #scheme 06:41:29 -!- btw0 [n=wu@219.228.97.243] has left #scheme 06:43:57 breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 07:02:28 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 07:04:24 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 07:04:51 yhara [n=yhara@raichu.3in.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:09:05 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 07:09:47 -!- stepnem_ [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 07:16:27 -!- synthasee [n=synthase@68.63.48.10] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 07:20:02 sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-156-21.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 07:21:19 mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-067-047-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 07:21:19 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:22:12 incubot: cats that escalate every trivium to dev to compensate for geographical displacement are clowns 07:22:16 guns are built to shoot people, but cars aren't built to crash and burn. However, this channel isn't exactly the forum for this kind of discussion, and this is a kind of discussion that I'm sure is easy to escalate. 07:36:52 mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 07:37:53 ejs [n=eugen@181-20-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 07:58:38 yhara_ [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has joined #scheme 07:59:06 -!- ejs [n=eugen@181-20-178-94.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 07:59:50 -!- yhara_ [n=yhara@raichu.netlab.jp] has left #scheme 08:01:29 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 08:02:57 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 08:11:43 incubot: i'll escalate you to the moon, alice 08:11:46 guns are built to shoot people, but cars aren't built to crash and burn. However, this channel isn't exactly the forum for this kind of discussion, and this is a kind of discussion that I'm sure is easy to escalate. 08:11:58 incubot: you're trying my patience 08:12:01 heh, for me, i don't even think up these big projects; most of the things i wanna do seem pretty plausible - i just never have enough patience/concentration to sit thru the whole process and finish it ;-) 08:12:21 incubot: guns don't kill people 08:12:24 It's a well accepted fact in the insurance industry that insurance "encourages" people to have accidents, especially minor ones. ("Moral hazard") I would draw an analogy to guns, but apparently you're not playing that game any more. 08:16:08 -!- yhara [n=yhara@raichu.3in.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:24:39 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 08:28:52 -!- raikov [n=igr@p2080-ipbf406marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 08:29:03 breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 08:30:14 wy_ [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 08:38:00 ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #scheme 08:38:29 -!- breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:42:50 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B054D53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:46:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 08:47:16 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 08:47:57 -!- wy [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51:08 -!- mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-067-047-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:00:05 dharmatech [n=root@206.55.180.50] has joined #scheme 09:01:35 wartalker [n=wartalke@210.51.173.167] has joined #scheme 09:04:28 mit-scheme in debug, i use C :show bindings of identifiers in the Current environment, env = (((test require false true car cdr cons null? list memq member not + ..., but i want to show all the env ,how can i do 09:07:03 help 09:11:14 Riastradh, Why didn't SRFI-43 include VECTOR-TABULATE? SRFI-1 has LIST-TABULATE. 09:12:09 Riastradh, Also, I guess the R6RS editors didn't care for the VECTOR-MAP which takes an index and an element. What do you think about their decision? 09:12:18 (I'll check the logs later for the answer...) 09:13:12 r0bby_ [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #scheme 09:16:20 -!- r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:16:35 wartalker: W enter environment inspector (Where) on the current environment. And the C 09:19:18 -!- dharmatech [n=root@206.55.180.50] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:19:19 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:19:19 mejja: i know , but it does not show all the information, if the env is too long , it prints ...., i want to get all the information for env. 09:19:43 You should run the debugger from within edwin. Much nicer and easier to navigate. M-x inferior-repl-debug or C-c C-d 09:21:30 mejja: i am in emacs 09:24:20 -!- wy_ [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:42:13 Debolaz2 [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has joined #scheme 09:42:27 raikov [n=igr@p2080-ipbf406marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:42:33 -!- Debolaz [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 09:43:37 -!- wartalker [n=wartalke@210.51.173.167] has left #scheme 09:47:02 -!- kazzmir_ [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:55:46 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:58:27 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 10:00:03 -!- halfcore [i=support@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 10:05:07 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 10:05:37 sanita [n=sanchy@89.241.150.221] has joined #scheme 10:05:45 -!- sanita [n=sanchy@89.241.150.221] has left #scheme 10:06:21 sanita [n=sanchy@89.241.150.221] has joined #scheme 10:07:28 -!- raikov [n=igr@p2080-ipbf406marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:08:08 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 10:12:49 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 10:14:38 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:22:21 -!- foof [n=user@pc2.terrac2-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 10:35:14 kazzmir [n=kazzmir@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 10:37:51 -!- stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 10:40:13 breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 10:49:34 -!- breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 10:53:33 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx02x.nokia.com] has quit ["Leaving."] 10:54:01 mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has joined #scheme 10:55:59 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 10:59:38 sorrow [n=kvirc@92.4.210.217] has joined #scheme 10:59:49 -!- sorrow is now known as Guest46249 10:59:52 *Guest46249* good morning to all ! 11:00:01 -!- Guest46249 is now known as `sorrow` 11:15:47 halfcore [i=noam@ip136-63-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 11:17:23 -!- Debolaz2 [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:22:47 elias` [n=me@resnet-pat-254.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 11:23:27 breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 11:28:46 raikov [n=igr@p2080-ipbf406marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 11:29:09 -!- error_de6eloper_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:29:37 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:33:20 -!- breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:37:00 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 11:47:04 mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-067-044-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:50:05 jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 11:50:16 -!- jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:55:28 -!- sanita [n=sanchy@89.241.150.221] has quit [] 11:55:29 -!- `sorrow` is now known as `sorrow-away` 12:03:31 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.48.10] has joined #scheme 12:03:59 -!- `sorrow-away` [n=kvirc@92.4.210.217] has quit ["KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/"] 12:18:16 anybody know what's up with ikarus-0.0.4? It was scheduled for release before end of 2008. 12:18:27 Is it out? 12:25:03 -!- mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-067-044-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 12:31:39 wingo-tp [n=wingo@192.Red-83-44-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 12:32:14 Will it be out soon? 12:33:35 jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-172-168.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 12:33:43 RSN! :) 12:36:00 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFE432.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:38:51 -!- ski [n=slj@c-8913e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:39:01 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:43:58 jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 12:44:10 -!- jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:46:34 npe [n=npe@dn157-088.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 13:01:21 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["brb"] 13:02:13 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 13:04:38 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@68.237.103.91] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:08:58 mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-067-041-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 13:10:30 breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 13:16:16 bzzbzz [n=franco@207.236.146.245] has joined #scheme 13:16:56 a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has joined #scheme 13:18:23 -!- breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:22:12 incubot: lawyers 13:22:15 I was planning to defend myself, no lawyers on my side. "Fool for a client" and all that. However, I think it would be an interesting test of the system's sanity. 13:22:21 incubot: money 13:22:24 So we have the same problem. "I want less money for hospitals" is not something voters want to hear from a politician. 13:28:05 stepnem [n=xchat@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 13:28:37 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:29:41 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 13:31:26 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 13:35:17 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 13:40:48 jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 13:43:30 -!- mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-067-041-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 13:46:12 hemulen [n=hemulen@rrcs-96-10-19-245.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:46:31 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:46:59 -!- jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 13:50:09 xwl [n=user@114.245.142.125] has joined #scheme 14:01:05 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 14:03:06 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 14:09:33 mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-066-252-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 14:09:47 vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:09:47 annodomini [n=lambda@130.189.179.215] has joined #scheme 14:13:02 -!- luz [n=davids@189.60.54.152] has quit ["Client exiting"] 14:13:33 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 14:20:51 davidad [n=me@RANDOM-FOUR-THIRTY-THREE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 14:25:38 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@pool-71-243-21-118.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:26:11 Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has joined #scheme 14:35:14 Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has joined #scheme 14:35:50 -!- Lemonator [n=kniu@CMU-326558.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:38:36 -!- jso [n=user@host-9-143-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:38:49 hkBst: i wish I knew, aziz has been quiet ever since he made the announcement 14:52:40 jonrafkind [n=jon@pool-71-243-21-118.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 14:52:54 he's up to something 14:53:45 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 14:54:11 scheming 14:54:16 sanita [n=sanchy@89.241.150.221] has joined #scheme 14:54:55 most likely 14:55:37 thanks leppie 14:58:31 -!- sanita [n=sanchy@89.241.150.221] has left #scheme 15:01:33 you should do that after a release, not before :) 15:04:25 zbigniew: then it seems Chicken is not even R4RS ;p 15:05:39 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 15:06:27 -!- mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-066-252-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 15:09:14 -!- ASau` [n=user@host73-231-msk.microtest.ru] has quit ["Off!"] 15:12:11 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-232.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 15:13:37 -!- synthase [n=synthase@68.63.48.10] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:15:44 .oO(Does that matter?) 15:16:30 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:17:18 .oO(Is lunch soon?) 15:17:21 incubot: what are you? 15:17:25 (+ (/ (- (exp (* theta i)) (cos (theta))) i) (- (exp (* theta i)) (sin theta))) is what I was geting at any way. 15:17:36 huh. Really. 15:17:40 incubot is a Scientologist? 15:17:49 *j85wilson* mails offby1 a ribeye 15:19:00 yum 15:19:02 I thought Chicken implements R5RS 15:19:13 or it at least tries to, 15:23:04 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 15:25:44 dlt_ [n=dlt@189.61.141.36] has joined #scheme 15:27:10 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-156-21.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:29:48 dharmatech, VECTOR-TABULATE is subsumed by VECTOR-UNFOLD. However, I don't recommend the use of SRFI 43; instead I recommend the use of more flexible constructions such as foof-loop, (and ). 15:29:49 rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 15:30:33 dharmatech, by the way, email tag is much better for me than IRC log tag. 15:31:14 vixey, approximately. You must specify some command-line flags to get a better approximation of it. 15:33:14 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-103-91.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 15:33:48 vixey, what was under discussion, though, was an incorrect implementation of STRING-APPEND which did not always yield newly allocated strings. 15:38:24 jkff [n=ekirpich@dhcp4-66.yandex.net] has joined #scheme 15:48:19 -!- [[mark]] [n=mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has left #scheme 15:55:54 breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 16:01:12 mike_ [n=m@dslb-088-066-237-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 16:01:43 -!- breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:04:41 -!- mike_ is now known as Guest44146 16:06:55 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:13:48 dlt__ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 16:14:49 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] 16:20:40 athos [n=philipp@92.250.250.68] has joined #scheme 16:20:43 -!- Guest44146 [n=m@dslb-088-066-237-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 16:24:22 dlt____ [n=dlt@189.61.141.36] has joined #scheme 16:30:59 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:31:26 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@189.61.141.36] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:31:48 dlt_ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has joined #scheme 16:32:04 -!- a-s [n=user@85.9.55.98] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:35:14 breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 16:39:54 man scheme has some weird numbers. 0@-.0 16:41:42 -!- breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Success] 16:42:00 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:43:08 leppie: Felix has now changed string-append and substring to allocate new strings. 16:43:34 What's weird about zero, leppie? 16:43:56 foof [n=user@w253013.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #scheme 16:44:16 dstorrs [n=me@cpe-98-14-187-196.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 16:45:36 afternoon, all 16:46:02 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@189.61.141.36] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:46:41 I'm fairly new to Scheme and was hoping someone could help me out with macros. 16:46:53 is there a pastebot where I could dump some code? 16:46:56 lisppaste: url 16:46:57 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 16:47:03 -!- Nichibutsu [n=myfabse@wikipedia/Track-n-Field] has quit [] 16:47:27 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@192.Red-83-44-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:48:32 dstorrs pasted "First macro attempt" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77279 16:49:12 I'm using PLT Scheme v4.1.4 16:49:29 dstorrs, I know what the problem is, 16:49:33 running mzscheme inside an Emacs shell, if that matters. 16:49:38 vixey: what? 16:49:40 dstorrs, you must use BEGIN in the recursive clause of the macro 16:49:51 that is, (BEGIN (inc id) (inc id1 id2 ...))) 16:50:14 ... ah, I see. It's identifying it as too many templates, right? 16:50:51 so, a pattern can only be expanded to one sexp ? 16:54:26 dstorrs annotated #77279 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77279#1 16:54:47 ok, when I do that it no longer has syntax errors. however, trying to use it still fails. 17:01:57 my guess is you are missing "two ids" case... 17:03:17 sladegen: I have cases for (inc), (inc id), and (inc id id1 id2 ...) 17:03:27 shouldn't that match 0, 1, 2+ ? 17:07:51 incubot annotated #77279 "inc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/77279#2 17:07:58 but (inx x y z) -> (inc x) (inc y z) ... and if it somehow expands (inc) into (void) ... well "(void)" is syntax error. 17:08:06 Riastradh: nothing wrong with, just looks weird :) 17:08:20 all: how about a simpler question. Is there any way to get "expand" or "expand-once" to print something USEFUL in PLT-Scheme, instead of just "#"? If it would actually show me what it's expanding to, this would be a hell of a lot easier to fix. 17:08:39 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:08:59 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 17:09:03 i think it does have something like that 17:09:53 syntax-local-value perhaps? 17:10:14 dstorrs: http://eval.apply.googlepages.com/eccentric.txt 17:12:18 mejja: thank you very much, that looks really helpful. 17:13:11 incubot: thanks for fixing that. I don't understand why it works, though--shouldn't both of these match something with 1 param? (inc x) (inc x y ...) 17:13:12 Error: unbound variable: thanks 17:13:56 how can I get mzscheme to load srfi-0 ? 17:15:47 I want to use cond-expand 17:17:05 leppie: thanks for the s-l-v pointer. It doesn't work quite out of the box, but maybe if I play with it a bit. 17:17:31 PLT also has a macro expander in the IDE IIRC 17:17:39 incubot: (define foo 1) 17:17:39 # 17:18:05 saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:18:10 incubot: not your talkative self? 17:18:14 Well, it can do all of your basic kinds of pattern matching like matching numbers or disassembling datastructures, but with a variable model of matching symbols, you can do a lot more. 17:19:59 rudybot: eval (define-syntax inc (syntax-rules () ((inc x) (set! x (+ x 1))))) (expand '(let ((y 1)) (inx y))) 17:20:00 sladegen: your sandbox is ready 17:20:00 sladegen: ; Value: # 17:21:10 typo. s/(inx y)/(inc y)/ 17:21:27 rudybot: eval (define-syntax inc (syntax-rules () ((inc x) (set! x (+ x 1))))) (expand '(let ((y 1)) (inc y))) 17:21:27 dstorrs: your sandbox is ready 17:21:27 dstorrs: ; Value: # 17:22:22 -!- mmc [n=mima@esprx01x.nokia.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:23:19 rudybot: eval (define-syntax inc (syntax-rules () ((inc x) (set! x (+ x 1))))) (write (expand '(let ((y 1)) (inc y)))) 17:23:19 dstorrs: ; stdout: "#" 17:27:44 jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 17:28:05 ah, interesting. 17:28:20 yeah, whatever... i only have expand in rlwrap history log, but there is a way to see expansion. 17:28:54 if I reverse put the (inc x y ...) before the (inc x) line in the macro definition, then it's an infinite loop. 17:29:06 -!- jkff [n=ekirpich@dhcp4-66.yandex.net] has left #scheme 17:29:07 so, the macro expander takes the FIRST pattern that matches. 17:29:10 ok, that makes sense. 17:29:13 -!- jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:29:33 unohu [n=unohu@unaffiliated/unohu] has joined #scheme 17:29:57 sladegen: "rlwrap history log" ? 17:30:33 eli, ping 17:30:43 sorry, not familiar with rlwrap. 17:31:29 rudybot: eval (define-syntax inc (syntax-rules () ((inc x) (set! x (+ x 1))))) (expand-syntax '(let ((y 1)) (inc y))) 17:31:29 sladegen: error: expand-syntax: expects argument of type ; given (let ((y 1)) (inc y)) 17:32:30 ejs [n=eugen@76-107-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 17:32:35 rudybot: eval (define-syntax inc (syntax-rules () ((inc x) (set! x (+ x 1))))) (expand-syntax (expand '(let ((y 1)) (inc y)))) 17:32:35 sladegen: ; Value: # 17:32:51 *sladegen* blehs. 17:35:34 -!- unohu [n=unohu@unaffiliated/unohu] has left #scheme 17:35:50 incubot: kick the shit out of rudybot, please. 17:35:53 with a cranky owner who'll kick you from #lisp, nay, ban you from #lisp, for asking what the f tunes is? 17:36:33 heh 17:37:17 dstorrs, you probably want to use SYNTAX->DATUM (formerly, and perhaps still, called SYNTAX-OBJECT->DATUM). 17:39:55 -!- nostrand [n=rickard@h-62-207.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #scheme 17:40:12 wy_ [n=wy@c-98-228-40-51.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 17:42:18 Riastradh: thanks, I'll go read up on it. 17:47:21 *dstorrs* almost cries with relief. 17:47:29 Riastradh: thanks, that was just what I needed. 17:47:39 this was getting really aggravating. 17:54:00 -!- xwl [n=user@114.245.142.125] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55:36 dstorrs: It helped me a lot when I realized that (define-syntax a (syntax-rules () [(_ b) (c d)])) is a specialization of (define-syntax a (lambda (form) (syntax-case form () [(_ b) (datum->syntax form '(c d) form)])) 17:56:05 dudrenov [n=user@67.101.217.41] has joined #scheme 17:56:29 melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has joined #scheme 18:01:43 -!- dudrenov [n=user@67.101.217.41] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:01:53 dudrenov [n=user@67.101.217.41] has joined #scheme 18:02:28 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:02:34 -!- breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:02:51 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:09:43 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:12:03 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:19:57 mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-066-254-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 18:22:32 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 18:22:32 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23:02 jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 18:29:48 breily [n=breily@137.54.16.93] has joined #scheme 18:34:20 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:35:46 dharmatech [n=root@206.55.180.50] has joined #scheme 18:36:01 Riastradh, I got yer note. Thanks! 18:37:03 neilv [n=user@dsl092-071-030.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #scheme 18:40:06 Riastradh, I see that foof-loop can be used to implement a library like SRFI-43. However, I think it's a bit odd that you'd suggest not to use SRFI-43. Would you also not recommend SRFI-1 and point to foof-loop also? 18:40:12 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:41:06 Riastradh, For example, foof-loop can be used to define IOTA. But it's still nice to have IOTA as a named procedure. I'd say that the same goes for many of the procedures in SRFI-1 and SRFI-43. 18:41:45 Riastradh, So that's why I'm not sure that SRFI-43 should be ignored. 18:43:14 -!- hemulen [n=hemulen@rrcs-96-10-19-245.se.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 18:43:20 bbl... 18:43:24 -!- dharmatech [n=root@206.55.180.50] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:49:01 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 18:49:09 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:59:50 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:02:42 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 19:10:14 dlt__ [n=dlt@189.61.141.36] has joined #scheme 19:12:03 -!- mike___ [n=m@dslb-088-066-254-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 19:15:57 -!- breily [n=breily@137.54.16.93] has quit [] 19:22:18 -!- Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-103-91.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.36] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:18 -!- cipher [n=cipher@pool-173-48-136-239.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 19:22:32 -!- pantsd [n=hkarau@nat/uwaterloo/x-8f47aa516c2f1459] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 19:22:36 Khisanth [n=Khisanth@pool-68-237-103-91.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:36 luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has joined #scheme 19:22:36 vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:22:36 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 19:22:36 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 19:22:36 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.36] has joined #scheme 19:22:36 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 19:22:36 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 19:22:36 cipher [n=cipher@pool-173-48-136-239.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:44 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:23:14 -!- vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:23:30 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-119.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 19:26:12 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 19:26:12 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:28:06 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:28:15 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 19:28:21 elias` [n=me@resnet-nat-001.ucs.ed.ac.uk] has joined #scheme 19:29:19 -!- rudybot [n=luser@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:29:32 errr 19:29:40 vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:29:40 i made him die... 19:30:03 sorry :( 19:31:20 offby1 19:31:38 -!- dlt_ [n=dlt@c91192dd.static.bhz.virtua.com.br] has quit [Connection timed out] 19:33:20 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.142.134] has joined #scheme 19:36:20 Victorr [n=user@67.69.227.99] has joined #scheme 19:38:11 hello Schemers, I distinctly remember reading about an object system with Scheme that had the particularity of objects bein immutable. However, I'm having no luck finding it again with google. Does some one know about this object system? Does it exists? Or am I delusional? 19:38:13 *arcfide* tries 'scheme' as a search item in Cuil, Google, and Ask. 19:38:22 heh, Cuil 19:38:36 I thought that died after the first few days of hype 19:38:49 sjamaan: It has improved. 19:40:11 Victorr: try google for "functional objects" 19:41:48 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:47:07 thanks neilv, BTW thanks for Quack :-) 19:48:33 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 19:50:30 lep-delete [n=Administ@i59F4F3B7.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 19:52:46 synx: `syntax-rules' does not use `datum->syntax' like you said. 19:53:02 mike_ [n=m@dslb-088-066-228-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 19:53:18 -!- npe [n=npe@dn157-088.naist.jp] has quit [] 19:53:43 MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.164.144] has joined #scheme 19:54:16 Deformative [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has joined #scheme 19:54:22 -!- bzzbzz [n=franco@207.236.146.245] has quit ["leaving"] 19:55:33 eli: well... um... something to that effect though? 19:56:01 When I return #'(b c d) from syntax-case in a lambda, it has the same effect as syntax-rules mapping to (b c d). 19:57:57 kniu [n=kniu@128.237.241.148] has joined #scheme 19:58:18 Your use of `datum->syntax' suffers from using symbols (a `b' in the result is just a symbol; unrelated to the `b' in the matched pattern), and it suffers from being unhygienic. 19:58:42 berndj [n=berndj@41.4.147.220] has joined #scheme 20:03:24 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.241.148] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:04:54 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:06:52 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:08:39 breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 20:10:12 wingo-tp [n=wingo@192.Red-83-44-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:26 -!- RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.142.134] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 20:12:54 -!- MrFahrenheit [n=RageOfTh@92.36.164.144] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:13:05 RageOfThou [n=RageOfTh@92.36.164.144] has joined #scheme 20:14:56 -!- luz [n=davids@139.82.89.70] has quit ["Client exiting"] 20:19:09 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19:41 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 20:19:47 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:19:54 -!- Def [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:22:43 -!- berndj [n=berndj@41.4.147.220] has left #scheme 20:25:53 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:26:03 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:27:19 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:27:46 deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #scheme 20:37:44 appletizer [i=user@82-32-123-217.cable.ubr04.hawk.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:41:33 ^self [n=fn@116.58.56.241] has joined #scheme 20:42:43 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 20:42:48 -!- sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-146-232.netcologne.de] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:49:38 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 20:49:38 dudrenov` [n=user@67.101.217.41] has joined #scheme 20:50:45 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@142.204.133.36] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:51:51 Am I correct that in a define-syntax macro, each single template must consist of a single sexp? 20:52:31 yes 20:56:21 ok, cool. 20:57:12 now, this is just lexical substitution, right--it's just changing what tokens are eventually fed into the compiler. 20:57:41 so when you use a "(begin ...)" it actually does imply sequencing, even though not right at that moment. 20:59:07 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 20:59:33 if so, suppose you are doing something like the "when" construct, which takes a condition and a set of sexps. 21:00:20 is there a clean way to prepend a sexp to that set but leave it otherwise the same, WITHOUT using begin? 21:00:45 i.e., if I don't care about sequencing and would prefer to let the compiler choose order of execution? 21:02:09 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:03:10 I suppose I could do something like apply the identify function to the results of the body, just to establish an enclosing sexp, but that seems lame. Is there a cleaner way? 21:03:12 no, and why? :) 21:03:53 leppie: heh. 21:04:35 well, I thought the big point of functional programming was not worrying about order of evaluation. 21:04:42 dlt____ [n=dlt@189.61.141.36] has joined #scheme 21:04:49 do you mean you dont want (begin e1 (begin e2 e3 ...)) ? 21:05:58 begin splices within definitions, and sequences within expressions 21:06:22 but the order is still defined in both cases 21:06:31 dstorrs: What do you imagine the semantics of (when E1 E2 E3) to be? 21:07:04 eli: fair point. I know "when" is sequenced. 21:07:06 -!- dudrenov [n=user@67.101.217.41] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:07:23 I'm trying to figure out if that is a requirement of the system, or a design choice. 21:07:33 if it's a requirement, how would I build a non-sequenced when? 21:07:54 the body of any lambda (in other words almost everything) is an implicit begin 21:08:09 dstorrs: The design is good in that usually things come out right even when you don't think about them. 21:08:35 dstorrs: As for `when' -- what do you mean by a "non-sequenced `when'"? 21:08:37 leppie: blink. 21:08:49 lambda has an implicit "begin" ? 21:09:13 so, for example: (lambda (x) (display "Hi") (newline)) 21:09:30 is guaranteed to display the newline after the "Hi" ? 21:09:34 would work just as you wrote it 21:09:40 yes 21:09:51 lol, I would go insane if not :p 21:10:02 *dstorrs* facepalms. 21:10:12 I tried out a language liek that once, quite interesting 21:10:15 wow. that...makes things a lot easier than I thought. 21:10:25 dstorrs: You still didn't answer my question, now in `lambda' costume: what would you expect the semantics of that lambda expression to be? 21:10:36 eli: right, sorry. 21:10:43 So? 21:11:16 (when E1 E2 E3) ==> evaluate E1, then evaluate E2, then evaluate E3. Return value of E3 21:11:48 (lambda (x) (display "Hi") (newline)) ==> print "Hi" to stdout, print newline to stdout, return void 21:11:59 So if you expect it to evaluate things in sequence, where's the problem? 21:12:07 all makes sense now :) 21:12:29 eli: there's no problem NOW. :> 21:13:03 the original problem was that I knew "when" expanded to (if (condition) (begin ) #f) 21:13:08 so I knew it was sequenced. 21:13:19 but I did NOT realize that lambda was also inherently sequenced. 21:13:24 -!- ejs [n=eugen@76-107-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:13:30 (if there a more standard word than "sequenced" ?) 21:14:11 (I just don't know what you could have though it would mean.) 21:14:30 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:14:45 eli: I knew that it would both print a newline and print "Hi". I didn't know that the order in which those things happened was specified. 21:14:50 eli: imagine a language where every expression in the body happens at the same time 21:14:51 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:15:17 That would be my guess, but such a language would be utterly useless. 21:15:22 leppie: or, if not at the same time, then the order is unpredictable and implementation-dependent 21:16:24 In such a language you suffer the bad aspects of side-effects in a very expreme way; while at the same time getting absolutely no benefit from having them in the language. 21:16:25 there is/was a research project at microsoft called AsmL that worked like that, quite weird, you could implicitly step from 'state' to 'state' 21:16:43 It's like you not only don't get to have your cake, you throw up too. 21:16:54 eli: not useless. if there's no side effects (i.e., pure functional) then the order of evaluation doesn't matter 21:17:22 (although, obviously, you can't finish evaling any expression until you know what all its arguments eval to) 21:17:23 dstorrs: Right -- but then if there's no side effects, then why have two expressions to begin with? 21:17:30 will you have to stick to single arity procedures too? 21:18:21 leppie: no. 21:18:29 If in my original example E2 and E3 have no side-effects, then (when E1 E2 E3) -- under your original interpretation (AFAICT) -- would be identical to (when E1 (if (flip-coin) E2 E3)) 21:18:43 yeah, they unordered already 21:18:47 ejs [n=eugen@76-107-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #scheme 21:19:20 leppie: It does make some sense when you talk about arguments -- that a place where scheme *is* not comitting to a specific order. 21:22:46 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@189.61.141.36] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:22:53 my brain is getting tired now, sleep time 21:23:14 -!- jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:23:21 leppie: thanks for your help 21:23:29 np :) 21:24:09 jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 21:24:41 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@189.61.141.36] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:30:46 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 21:32:22 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:35:13 -!- ^self [n=fn@116.58.56.241] has quit ["almost 3am!"] 21:37:48 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 21:38:29 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:39:49 breily_ [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has joined #scheme 21:43:21 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-236-76-191.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 21:43:51 dysinger [n=tim@cpe-75-80-200-182.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:46:14 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:46:42 -!- breily [n=breily@173.15.192.254] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:50:52 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@BRAIN-AND-COG-THREE-TWELVE.MIT.EDU] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:53:32 -!- jah [n=jah@188.55.198-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:54:46 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:55:06 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:55:46 -!- lep-delete [n=Administ@i59F4F3B7.versanet.de] has quit ["leaving"] 21:59:20 -!- dudrenov` [n=user@67.101.217.41] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:02:53 synthase [n=synthase@68.63.48.10] has joined #scheme 22:05:16 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:07:22 -!- foof [n=user@w253013.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:07:25 Debolaz2 [n=debolaz@berle.cc] has joined #scheme 22:12:28 djjack [n=djjack@cpe-098-026-029-215.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:17:11 -!- djjack [n=djjack@cpe-098-026-029-215.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:17:41 -!- raikov [n=igr@p2080-ipbf406marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:19:14 *neilv* looks at typed scheme 22:21:09 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:41:44 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:51:15 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:53:49 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:56:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:57:02 -!- jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:00:59 djjack [n=djjack@cpe-098-026-029-215.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 23:04:21 https://synx.us.to/code/scheme/xml/writer.ss 23:04:49 now that's what I want out of XML hehe 23:05:35 -!- jewel_ [n=jewel@dsl-242-172-168.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:06:50 -!- deat [n=deat@fac34-8-88-172-174-215.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 23:08:23 -!- mike_ [n=m@dslb-088-066-228-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:08:24 sjamaan_ [n=sjamaan@frohike.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 23:15:34 -!- ejs [n=eugen@76-107-112-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:18:11 I can write it with the structure of an XML document, but generate the actual document incrementally. 23:18:17 Like, streaming. 23:19:29 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 23:19:49 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:20:11 -!- sjamaan [n=sjamaan@netbsd/developer/sjamaan] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:22:03 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 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