00:01:11 -!- vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Quitting!"] 00:01:53 -!- bweaver [n=user@c-67-161-236-94.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 00:02:57 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 00:06:21 -!- ackack [n=ackack@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.90.1"] 00:06:21 meanburrito920_ [n=John@76.222.111.244] has joined #scheme 00:06:56 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A00CA.versanet.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:07:40 benny [n=benny@i577A00CA.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 00:09:29 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:14:11 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-5.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 00:14:32 seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 00:15:00 ackack [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 00:16:16 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:16:18 azharcs [n=azharcs@59.92.132.76] has joined #scheme 00:22:09 bitweiler [n=phax@adsl-75-12-153-214.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:23:00 incubot: How would you implement a state machine? 00:23:03 And the version I just installed on sol also happens to support the Connection Machine, or at least has code for that. 00:24:59 incubot: Are you by chance an old star lisp hacker? 00:25:02 http://star-techcentral.com/tech/story.asp?file=/2006/8/15/corpit/15123649&sec=corpit 00:25:37 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/a9l52j 00:28:38 hey #scheme 00:30:34 bitweiler: #scheme addresses exactly alle und keinen, just like zarathustra 00:33:26 incubot: Zarathustra don't surf, man 00:33:28 I do have several copies of Thus Spake Zarathustra though. 00:37:12 klutometis: huh? 00:39:05 -!- azharcs [n=azharcs@59.92.132.76] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:39:58 azharcs [n=azharcs@59.92.157.205] has joined #scheme 00:41:10 davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-18-142.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 00:41:41 bitweiler: the vocative #scheme seems to address both everyone and yet no one 00:42:09 hey is print one of the builtin functions of scheme or just display? 00:42:15 oh, I see 00:42:30 bitweiler: what do you mean by builtin: present in RnRS? 00:43:02 if so, the display is indeed in r5rs; but not print 00:43:23 okay :) 00:44:21 ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 00:45:19 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:45:37 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:46:53 do some scheme's use print though? 00:48:54 nevermind I'll just stay away from that 00:51:28 bitweiler: chicken does, and i believe plt 01:03:19 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 01:03:32 -!- davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-18-142.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:04:29 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 01:05:36 davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-18-142.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 01:06:57 troter [n=troter@nurikabe.timedia.co.jp] has joined #scheme 01:08:32 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 01:09:34 -!- ackack [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:10:04 ackack [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 01:10:40 HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:17:59 -!- ackack [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:18:36 ackack [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 01:20:54 -!- bitweiler [n=phax@adsl-75-12-153-214.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:20:56 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFEA21.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:32:48 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 01:35:03 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has left #scheme 01:37:47 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:38:23 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:39:22 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A00CA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:40:46 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 01:41:27 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit ["ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 01:41:54 -!- davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-18-142.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:42:16 davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-18-142.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 01:42:48 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [] 01:52:07 davidad1 [n=me@dhcp-18-111-18-142.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 01:52:19 -!- davidad [n=me@dhcp-18-111-18-142.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 01:57:23 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFEA21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:58:26 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-54-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 02:00:03 -!- ackack [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:04:33 borism__ [n=boris@195-50-197-27-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 02:05:56 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-204-5-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:10:31 borism [n=boris@195-50-199-108-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 02:10:33 bitweiler [n=phax@ppp-70-133-173-192.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 02:11:23 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-200-54-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:13:22 -!- azharcs [n=azharcs@59.92.157.205] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:17:26 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:17:33 -!- borism__ [n=boris@195-50-197-27-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:19:19 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 02:19:23 ski [n=slj@c-8913e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 02:22:59 *mejja* vinkar till ski 02:23:20 -!- raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:28:38 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:29:51 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:32:34 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 02:36:57 xach lee seems to be always trying to down play lisp that guy is sick 02:39:50 link it up 02:41:01 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.scheme/browse_thread/thread/e199be42633f7767?hl=en# 02:41:03 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/cwhkop 02:41:30 thanks rudybot 02:42:19 he refers to scheme as scheme lisp? 02:42:20 So don't listen to him. 02:42:38 i don't, just think he's kind of funny 02:43:29 Lisp was his "scary uncle." 02:43:33 It gets old pretty quickly. 02:43:57 is brucio still blogging? 02:44:04 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 02:45:18 > Sorry, the blog at brucio.blogspot.com has been removed. This address is not available for new blogs. -- :-( 02:45:23 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 02:45:30 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 02:45:39 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [] 02:45:57 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:47:57 brucio, we miss you! 02:48:56 -!- annodomini_ is now known as annodomini 02:53:15 -!- davidad1 [n=me@dhcp-18-111-18-142.dyn.mit.edu] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:55:54 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 02:56:36 tarbo [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has joined #scheme 02:59:07 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:02:02 -!- seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:03:15 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 03:05:30 kniu [n=kniu@c-67-171-96-62.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:06:59 Gosh, JRM's scheme blag is #1 at reddit. http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/82do0/i_no_longer_hate_lisp/ 03:07:58 -!- tarbo_ [n=me@unaffiliated/tarbo] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:08:37 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 03:08:41 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:09:27 That page is blank mejja 03:09:54 Blame your ISP 03:10:21 no it's my proxy belh 03:10:23 bleh 03:10:52 synx: http://funcall.blogspot.com/2009/03/not-lisp-again.html 03:12:33 yeah I found it 03:18:34 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:19:04 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 03:21:58 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 03:23:03 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:26:01 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 03:28:50 -!- bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-121-158.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:35:48 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:36:01 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:36:04 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:36:09 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 03:39:25 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #scheme 03:39:29 davidad [n=me@RANDOM-THREE-EIGHTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has joined #scheme 03:41:42 bsmntbombdood [n=gavin@97-118-121-158.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #scheme 03:43:39 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 03:45:53 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:50:10 karlw [n=user@dwin-wlan-221.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:02:28 Is there an LDAP library for Scheme? 04:07:01 -!- karlw [n=user@dwin-wlan-221.AirBears.Berkeley.EDU] has left #scheme 04:07:30 Anyone know exactly how much of Scheme48 was actually written in 48 hours? 04:16:03 foof: is that what the 48 stands for? 04:16:08 yeah 04:16:11 wow 04:16:27 and here I been spending 18 months on IronScheme... 04:17:46 Since it's written by two people who had implemented other Schemes before, and since it's a really simple implementation, I can believe they got something working in 48 hours. But I think that something would have been very minimal and buggy :) 04:18:30 minimal, but buggy? 04:19:31 programming bugs is counter-productive :p 04:20:20 Minimal, yes. 04:26:26 I don't know exactly, but I believe it had an interpreter, garbage collector, some minimal primitives, compiler, and minimal run-time system, and I think it ran in Maclisp. 04:27:25 Oh, the first version was written in a hosted Lisp? 04:27:32 Yes. 04:27:39 Maclisp on the ITS, specifically. 04:29:30 That is: the virtual machine ran in Maclisp generated from approximately Scheme code (a predecessor to Pre-Scheme). 04:30:22 Anyway, I need to get to bed. 04:31:10 Good night. 04:31:27 Send mail to Jonathan; he'll probably have a much better answer than I. 04:32:39 Riastradh: oh, if you get a chance: state machine sans enclosing mutables. 04:32:50 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:33:18 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 04:33:20 ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 04:33:33 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has left #scheme 04:35:08 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-138-90.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:37:30 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:37:57 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 04:41:59 Riastradh: can edwin open a evaluation buffer as well? 04:50:04 bitweiler: ? 04:51:45 bitweiler: raison d'etre 04:54:16 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:57:45 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176201221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:00:26 dharmatech [n=root@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:02:00 polanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #scheme 05:05:49 foof! 05:06:08 foof, Is there any chance your match.scm will be available for R6RS anytime soon? :-) 05:07:01 It's fun to hate on R6RS. But damn, the implementations of it that I'm using (Ypsilon, Ikarus, Larceny) are sooo damn good. 05:07:27 I guess that says more about the implementors than it does about the standard. 05:08:27 Here's a rule: you can't be an editor of a report unless you've finished implementing the last report you edited. 8-) 05:08:36 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:08:51 -!- polanguage is now known as parodyoflanguage 05:10:24 tjafk [n=timj@e176202214.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:10:25 Is there any hope for SRFI-4 style vectors in R6RS implementations? 05:10:59 -!- ice_man` [n=user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #scheme 05:11:21 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176219070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:12:22 I don't know of any R6RS Scheme that has picked up SRFI-4. 05:13:20 Oh, and I really wish that R6RS didn't conflict with 'vector-each' from the vectors srfi. So annoying. 05:13:23 I was wondering if in edwin can I split it into buffers like emacs one witn interpreter and one for editing 05:13:36 c-x 2? 05:13:43 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:14:47 Man, the party sure died on the R6RS list. 05:15:51 dharmatech: Ideally match.scm should work out of the box, but R6RS deliberately broke the meaning of '_'. 05:16:04 No, that's not a smiley :) 05:16:20 foof: you mean the smiley of the grave dog? 05:17:22 foof, Ah. So is solving the problem not as simple are replacint the '_'? 05:17:55 so what is behind incubot's recent return? 05:18:00 Oh, if you wanted to use a different symbol, then that would be easy. 05:18:06 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@213.171.48.239] has joined #scheme 05:18:29 incubot: did you enjoy your sojourn in Mumbai? 05:18:31 BTW, offby1, I once valiantly tried to explain syntax-case in c.l.l. That was my last extended sojourn there. 05:18:34 You might also be able to come up with a trick to detect '_' along the same lines as the trick for detecting '...' 05:18:45 Ah OK. 05:18:57 *offby1* nods sagely 05:19:14 Or I think if you put match.scm inside a special module that doesn't import '_' from R6RS then it will work. 05:20:08 But the most R6RSish solution is probably to use syntax-case. 05:20:15 Ugh... 05:20:17 no way... 05:20:25 Yeah, I sure won't write it :) 05:21:08 -!- kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:21:35 R6RS was the Bush regime of the reports. 05:22:23 PLT are the neocons. 05:22:25 ;-) 05:23:41 It's a damn shame though. Your match is my favorite. 05:25:50 dharmatech: one of my favorite analogies for r6rs, actually; next to the obvious star wars ones 05:26:03 dharmatech: *If* you want to make political analogies, then PLT is most definitely not in the conservative side. 05:26:14 hi eli :-) 05:26:26 eli: but neither are neocons (conservative, that is) 05:26:29 it's a common misconception 05:26:31 Neither is the Bush regime. :-) 05:26:35 dharmatech: jinx 05:26:39 Yeah yeah. 05:26:42 Quite unconservative actually. 05:27:12 the real question is: who is the ron paul of the rnrs world 05:27:21 heh 05:27:24 The neo-cons weren't exactly conservative either. 05:27:28 eli, You're on the PLT team. What do the guys say about the "low approval rating" that R6RS got amongst implementors? 05:27:30 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176201221.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:28:03 eli, My guess is that it was a painful experience for Matthew. 05:28:05 incubot: ron paul, the necons and darth vader walk into a bar... 05:28:08 the only one who can make you a C jedi is you 05:28:12 heh 05:29:55 So people are all "rah rah" about the new steering committee. BUT!!! Look at the last committee... that should've been a "dream team" and look what happened. I don't trust the process anymore. 05:30:25 dharmatech: PLT isn't really pro-R6RS. 05:31:17 foof, Well... look at how much of the PLT team voted. 05:31:45 foof, And... check out Fellesiens comment about it being "perfect". 05:31:46 WTF 05:31:59 So unless they changed their mind... 05:32:08 Also, Flatt didn't resign. :-) 05:33:01 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 05:33:08 The editors get appointed right? 05:33:13 dharmatech: r6rs is so 2007; the empire won, get over it ;) 05:33:18 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:33:48 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:33:53 That's "perfect" in quotes. I'm guessing he was sick of the argument that it shouldn't be ratified until it was "perfect," and made a tongue-in-cheek remark to that effect. 05:34:02 benny [n=benny@i577A0EF0.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 05:35:19 My pick for editors would be: Winkleman, Serrano, Aziz, Clinger, Feeley. Basically if you're still implementing state of the art stuff, you can be on there. 05:36:09 klutometis, Yeah you're right. It's just that I'm a little late to the party. Anybody who walks into this mess is gonna bitch a little bit. I'm just now getting my rants out. :-) 05:36:50 dharmatech: no, it's good; it's about time someone violated the flame-war taboo 05:37:12 there should be a specific level in purgatory for those cats that ruined scheme 05:37:34 i'm not sure what punishment dante would have dreamed up, though; something involving BASIC? 05:37:53 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [] 05:37:59 klutometis, They didn't ruin anything except goodwill they may have had with the community. The spirit of Scheme is alive and well. :-D 05:38:06 hear, hear 05:38:48 *dharmatech* rolls up his sleeves and begins coding *around* R6RSisms 05:38:53 heh 05:39:06 klutometis: does incubot have a new feature? 05:39:16 vader => jedi ? 05:40:00 offby1: i wish, man; i've got to get off my ass and make the pattern matching more sophisto 05:40:09 Ikarus kicks ass though. 05:40:38 dharmatech: so i've heard 05:40:47 Nice and clean implementation. Larceny is soooo crufty. :-) 05:41:12 (don't inflate its head too much. You know what happened to its namesake.) 05:41:22 dharmatech: Is Ypsilon any good? 05:41:37 It's a damn shame that we're just now seeing state-of-the-art native code incremental compilers for Intel processors. 05:41:45 foof, Oh man... ypsilon is the shiznit. 05:42:12 foof, http://proteus.freeshell.org/cons-wm-2009-03-05.png 05:42:20 Check out that screenshot. 05:42:27 The window manager is written in Ypsilon 05:42:40 *yawn* 05:42:50 wm in scheme ... how 1998 05:42:57 Sorry, window managers don't impress me :) 05:43:07 The lower right hand corner is a cairo demo using the bindings that were just checked in today. 05:43:29 foof, Awww. Well, it's a good implementation. :-) 05:43:32 Nice ffi. 05:43:34 Oh! 05:44:10 And even though it's not a native code compiler, it actually beats larceny on some of the demos I've run it on. 05:44:31 Ugh, C++ :( 05:44:43 offby1, What scheme window manager was out in 1998? SCWM? 05:44:50 yep 05:45:02 not sure of the date. 05:45:07 I claim poetic license 05:45:13 That wasn't even really written in Scheme. It was FVWM extended by Scheme. 05:45:56 foof, Yeah, it's in C++. 05:46:13 It's alot nicer to use than Larceny. 05:46:23 -!- kniu [n=kniu@c-67-171-96-62.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:46:23 I'd use Ikarus more but the FFI isn't working right for me. 05:46:46 So basically I develop in Ypsilon and run it for speed in Larceny. 05:46:47 it has APROPOS ? /me gets. 05:47:06 and TRACE 05:47:35 foof, So what do you look for in an implementation? Not X11 bindings obviously. 8-) 05:47:39 Does it have threads? 05:47:48 native? Not sure... 05:47:53 either 05:48:40 it must have natice; the 'nearly concurrent GC' and multicore etc. would be pointless otherwise. 05:48:53 foof, So are you mainly on chicken these days? 05:49:26 foof, Are you still maintaining/using common-scheme? 05:49:45 Yes, Chicken is a lot easier to use than any of the other native compilers, and "fast enough." 05:50:07 Where "fast enough" means that for anything for which it isn't fast enough, neither are the other Scheme compilers. 05:50:13 except for the hash tables... 05:50:25 oh yeah, the hash tables are horrible :( 05:50:36 foof, Have you tried Larceny and Ikarus? Both are pretty easy to use in my experience. 05:50:52 Ikarus has no threads. 05:50:59 They're nice because there's not explicit compile step. Just load and go. 05:51:09 ah 05:51:43 Well, ikarus is young. 05:52:56 Chicken on my system is hacked to act like an incremental compiler. :-) My 'load' compiles and then loads the so on the fly. :-p 05:53:47 -!- bitweiler [n=phax@ppp-70-133-173-192.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has quit ["studies are calling"] 05:54:58 How is chicken 4.0 coming along? I'm on 3.4.0. 05:56:32 foof, It's nice to see folks ditching pregexp for irregex. :-) 05:56:44 eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-154-101.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 05:56:50 I noticed that Jazz Scheme ships with irregex. 05:58:59 dharmatech: In case you didn't notice, even active Schemes that don't implement r6rs get to have a good module system -- so in a very concrete sense, as felleisen hinted, r6rs was very effective. 05:59:09 As for "painful experience for Matthew" I don't know how that's related to implementations. 05:59:32 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 06:00:06 eli, Do what now? What do you mean non-R6RS Scheme's get a good module system? 06:01:34 "Do what now?" 06:01:43 :-) 06:01:48 Redneckism. 06:02:18 Schemes like chicken that are "morally" objecting to r6rs yet get a real macro + module system; unlike guile, for example. 06:02:35 eli, Do you mean that the design of the R6RS module system is having an influence on Schemes lately? 06:02:42 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 06:03:20 Yes. Identifiers are no longer just symbols. 06:03:42 eli, I'm not up to speed on the latest in Chicken. Did it adopt an R6RS style module system? In 4.0? 06:05:19 Module the extreme vagueness of "r6rs-style" -- yes, that's what I heard (here). 06:05:29 eli, But do you think R6RS was necessary to get folks to try that design out? The good stuff seems to catch-on eventually out in the wild. 06:05:33 s/Module/Modulo/ 06:05:50 *eli* chokes on his drink 06:06:14 Show me how many Schemes had a good module system before r6rs. 06:06:42 Good = one that goes well with macros; not just some silly package system for managing namespaces. 06:07:46 dharmatech: No, Chicken 4.0 uses a native explicit renaming macro system, and a module system similar to Chez. 06:08:24 Details. 06:08:32 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [No route to host] 06:09:15 eli, Well, I'm not saying that the R6RS module system doesn't have good properties. I'm am saying that it was shoved down the communities throat "for their own good". 06:09:34 And I suspect the reason for that had more to do with me embracing and extending riaxpander as the default Chicken macro expander, and Felix getting NIH syndrome, than any sort of R6RS envy :) 06:10:10 *foof* had actively threatened to make a riaxpander-based module system 06:10:26 foof: No, I didn't intend to imply r6rs envy as being a motivating factor. 06:10:35 Felix really didn't like riaxpander as the basis for a module system. 06:10:48 Yeah, that was obvious :) 06:10:53 dharmatech: "shoved"? 06:11:36 dharmatech: tikkun olam 06:11:37 dharmatech: Each scheme implementation chose how to proceed -- regardless of r6rs -- with the question of "modules"; and that question was in the air for a really long time now. 06:13:06 I also don't like the records mess. 06:13:36 eli, Having to explicitly list the exports kinda sucks. :-) 06:13:54 incubot: I'll give you explicit 06:13:56 explicit renaming. 06:14:01 heh 06:14:02 Yeah! 06:14:36 dharmatech: *that*'s an r6rs specific detail. (and IMO it's more than "kinda".) 06:15:01 playing incubot is like playing a subtle instrument; some people have the touch, some don't ;) 06:15:24 Sucks that R7RS probably won't show up till after 2012 which is when the world is supposed to end anyway. 06:16:38 It will show up though? 06:16:54 eli, I actually don't have too much of a problem with the module system yet. (except for the looong export lists) 06:17:31 eli, Introducing syntax-case, breaking syntax rules, the whack-ass records, incompatible with various srfis, etc. 06:17:48 eli, But you're right, the module system they did OK on. :-) 06:18:28 eli, That's one thing PLT knows about. Fast compilers? Not so much... 06:19:22 eli, Your flame war with Rozas was epic. :-) 06:19:35 Old-school vs new school. 06:19:51 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:20:04 I felt like telling him, "dude, case-sensitivity should be the least of your worries at this point..." 06:20:53 mmc [n=mima@gw1.teleca.fi] has joined #scheme 06:21:48 AtnNn_ [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 06:22:22 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:23:05 eli, Oh... I like bytevectors alot! :-) 06:23:21 dharmatech: re the module system: take guile's requirement that a module provide any functions that provided macros expand too -- it used to be a common thing, and now thing have shifted to viewing it as a bug 06:24:01 eli, It's nice that PLT supports SRFI-4 at in the ffi. 06:24:06 re syntax-case: it makes sense like any other procedural macro system; and I don't know what you mean by "breaking syntax-rules". 06:24:08 er, at the ffi level. 06:24:29 eli, Well, earlier we were talking about how foof's match won't load in R6RS. 06:24:36 But it's fine in R5RS. 06:24:53 ANd that's because `syntax-rules' is broken? 06:25:42 eli, Well, R6RS breaks syntax-rules code that worked in R5RS. 06:25:53 eli, But for good reason? 06:25:57 You tell me... 06:26:44 I don't know how `syntax-rules' is broken -- I expect this to be related to r5rs's use of `load' (and therefore `eval') as the tool of choice for composing "libraries". 06:27:38 foof> dharmatech: Ideally match.scm should work out of the box, but R6RS deliberately broke the meaning of '_'. 06:28:59 Ah `_' was taken, nothing to do with `syntax-rules'. (And I don't know the story behind doing that, though I really don't think deliberately breaking r5rs code was there) 06:29:10 As for my flamewar about case-sensitivity -- there's more to it than just old and new schools... IMO the next big thing to fight over will be an extensible reader system -- one that makes the case issue irrelevant; and one that will take more schemes to the level of being language frameworks. 06:30:37 eli, Do you think that's on the agenda for R7RS? 06:31:25 eli, That sounds kinda far out. 06:31:32 kniu [n=kniu@128.237.229.98] has joined #scheme 06:31:42 eli, We can't even get the implementors to agree on much simpler stuff. :-) 06:31:58 Well, there's nothing yet in the r7rs at this point... Especially no agenda. 06:32:06 Let's just call PLT RinfinityRS and be done eh? :-) 06:33:02 eli, Oh... I'm sure folks have their agendas... 06:33:16 Including the goal to undo some of R6RS. 06:33:30 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:33:33 Dude... Rees is on the committee. R6RS is fucked. :-) 06:33:59 Huh? If the "Scheme world" minus the "PLT World" chooses not to go with syntax extensibility, nobody is going to be upset. PLT is definitely not RinfinityRS. 06:33:59 How the hell is Sperber gonna get back on as an editor? 06:34:03 I don't see it happening. 06:34:16 And without sperber, continuity is gonna be tricky. :-) 06:34:43 Personally I see r7rs as still straightening out the issues that r6rs started; perhaps r8rs will get to talk about syntax. 06:35:13 But that's just my personal opinion -- I think that "Scheme" in general is bound to get there at some point. 06:35:35 bleh, I whipped up a chat server in ypsilon. It has a message-passing scheme, *but*: it can't pass ports in messages, it can't pass mailboxes in messages. 06:36:35 So, multi-processing not multi-threading? 06:36:44 foof - it has threads. 06:40:59 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:42:32 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:42:35 -!- foof [n=user@dn157-046.naist.jp] has quit ["brb"] 06:42:36 annodomini_ [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 06:44:34 eli, well thanks for the discussion. Gotta run! 06:44:58 -!- dharmatech [n=root@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:48:47 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:53:48 foof [n=user@isa7-dhcp-116-153.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 06:59:03 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:03:28 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@76.222.111.244] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 07:05:52 -!- maxote [n=el_ermit@84.79.67.254] has left #scheme 07:07:21 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 07:16:23 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has quit [] 07:20:11 ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has joined #scheme 07:22:43 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 07:26:18 Rounin [n=david@rounin.409.no] has joined #scheme 07:28:11 Hello! I have a list of the type '(a b c d). Let's say I want to return just '(a c d) and not b, is there any way of using map or for-each to do that, or do I need to write a full recursive function for it? 07:28:23 Everything I've tried so far either returns an empty list or #void 07:30:10 kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 07:34:23 incubot: (delete 'b '(a b c d)) 07:34:23 (a c d) 07:34:33 Rounin: try srfi-1 07:35:06 Thanks :) 07:42:22 raikov [n=igr@203.181.243.11] has joined #scheme 07:47:47 mngbd [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has joined #scheme 07:51:49 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 08:03:15 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:08:48 ackack [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 08:09:46 ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #scheme 08:10:15 -!- ackack [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 08:22:44 defietser [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 08:23:53 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 08:33:33 -!- defietser [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 08:34:29 defietser [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 08:41:14 seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 08:55:04 ddvlad [n=ddvlad@p5.eregie.pub.ro] has joined #scheme 08:55:50 hello, is there a function equivalent to `take' from haskell? that is, from a list, return just the first k elements 08:56:26 rudybot: eval (take 3 '(a b c d e)) 08:56:27 foof: your sandbox is ready 08:56:27 foof: error: take: expected argument of type ; given (a b c d e) 08:56:55 oops 08:56:56 rudybot: eval (take '(a b c d e) 3) 08:56:56 foof: ; Value: (a b c) 08:58:01 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05738B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 08:58:29 foof: hmm... drscheme with Pretty Big doesn't seem to recognise take 08:58:59 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.229.98] has quit ["Leaving"] 08:59:03 (require srfi/1) 08:59:31 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 09:00:35 unknow module. i'm missing something again, aren't i? 09:00:42 ? 09:00:47 What version of DrScheme? 09:01:24 360 09:01:54 Oh... you want 4.x. 09:02:02 whoa... just realised 360 is antique :-) 09:02:39 thanks for the help 09:02:45 np 09:04:27 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:05:22 hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 09:06:51 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has quit [] 09:08:09 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has left #scheme 09:15:22 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:15:39 -!- jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:16:54 jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:18:08 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B05738B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 09:19:51 underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 09:20:54 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 09:30:57 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:31:08 ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has joined #scheme 09:43:52 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:45:13 ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has joined #scheme 09:48:40 npe [i=npe@naist-wavenet125-199.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 09:52:40 -!- npe [i=npe@naist-wavenet125-199.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:53:10 npe [i=npe@naist-wavenet125-199.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 09:54:04 -!- npe [i=npe@naist-wavenet125-199.naist.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:54:22 -!- ASau` [n=user@77.246.230.143] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:58:25 attila_lendvai [n=ati@catv-89-132-189-132.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 10:10:19 -!- underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] has quit [] 10:18:13 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:19:51 incubot: just showed up some summabitch that was trying to deprive me of my job; those wily scots 10:19:54 ed, vi, emacs, sam, acme/wily 10:20:36 mrc [i=525bd88d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e07e4d4135965516] has joined #scheme 10:21:06 -!- mrc [i=525bd88d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e07e4d4135965516] has quit [Client Quit] 10:25:19 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:28:24 wingo-tp [n=wingo@217.Red-79-156-65.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 10:34:42 jah [n=jah@132.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 10:36:24 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 10:39:48 david000 [n=david@lan.proporta.com] has joined #scheme 10:41:55 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 10:42:21 hello. how can I use the --main command line option of mzscheme? I did (define (main . args) ...) inside a module but still get "main: not defined or required into the top-level environment" 10:42:21 10:46:31 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 10:49:08 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 10:53:40 -!- seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 11:00:10 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:01:24 david000: don't put it in a module 11:05:57 vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 11:06:16 -!- mngbd [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:08:33 jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 11:08:58 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 11:13:33 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:20:20 -!- ejs [n=eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Read error: 60 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quit [No route to host] 15:22:00 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has joined #scheme 15:33:14 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 15:35:20 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.17.146.221] has joined #scheme 15:38:20 -!- dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 15:44:57 wingo-tp: no 15:45:29 it depends how you make your gensyms, in my case I leave the name, and append something unique 15:45:44 that way i can always determine what it was 15:46:09 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:46:26 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 15:47:08 psyntax does track the original name internally, but it is not accessable 15:47:23 unless you know where to go look of course :) 15:47:50 (in the rib records if you need to know) 15:47:52 rick_2047 [n=rick@59.95.207.198] has joined #scheme 15:48:25 i am having problem installing mit scheme 15:48:36 it spits out lines like 15:48:38 comutl.c:(.text+0x431): undefined reference to `Registers' 15:48:43 rdd [n=user@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 15:48:52 do i need some library which is missing?? 15:49:09 plz help?? 15:49:13 what does google say? 15:49:30 well it does not reconize the error outright 15:49:38 couldn't find anything related to it 15:49:43 leppie: yeah i do that too -- seems nasty to have to deconstruct a symbol tho 15:50:05 I have g$name$234234234 15:50:16 so i just grab whats between the 2 $ 15:50:38 rick_2047, in general, you must specify (1) exactly what you typed, (2) exactly what you saw, and (3) exactly what you expected to see. In this case, `exactly what you typed' means what you downloaded from where, and what you ran to build it. 15:51:08 Riastradh, i downloaded from the link given in the sicp homepage 15:51:25 i unpacked it and went in the src dir 15:51:26 Please give specific URIs. 15:51:31 Riastradh, k 15:51:48 wingo-tp: the only time I need to do that is for undefined variables though 15:51:55 http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/ 15:52:00 leppie: do you get source-level annotations as a part of the output of sc-expand? 15:52:04 http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mit-scheme/snapshot.pkg/20090107/mit-scheme-20090107.tar.gz 15:52:06 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/7rr88l 15:52:08 first one the page 15:52:14 haha I wish... 15:52:15 OK. 15:52:16 and second the pakage 15:52:18 i have annotations going in, but they're not coming out 15:52:28 i am on arch linux by the way 15:52:29 rick_2047, now, do you have an existing MIT Scheme installation on your system? 15:52:30 and i'm sure that syncase deals with them internally 15:52:39 Riastradh, no do i have to 15:52:56 Aziz has not done that yet, as he has no facility to emit that info at runtime (he does at expand time though) 15:53:25 I have asked him, but I guess that wont happen anytime soon, unless someelse contributes it 15:53:29 heh, ok 15:53:29 If you want to build it entirely from source, then yes, you need an existing MIT Scheme installation. 15:53:38 fadein [n=fadein@c-98-202-166-220.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 15:53:41 Riastradh, thats bad 15:53:46 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEA21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Gone."] 15:53:47 *wingo-tp* currently on a really old psyntax, for r5rs 15:53:48 option 2 then 15:53:55 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEA21.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 15:54:14 Riastradh, i have a tinyscheme implimetation on this terminal 15:54:20 Riastradh, is it just as good?? 15:54:25 Follow the directions for `GNU/Linux binary' or for `Other unix'. 15:54:26 wingo-tp: if you get a syntax error, it will emit your annotations in the trace 15:54:37 if there is any 15:54:49 Riastradh, what about tinyscheme 15:54:49 ack 15:54:50 -!- eno__ is now known as eno 15:55:22 -!- aaco_ is now known as aaco 15:55:54 rick_2047, if what you want is a useful environment in which to develop general Scheme programs, MIT Scheme is more appropriate. If you have a specific application that requires a tiny implementation of Scheme with space constraints and no requirements for useful libraries or development environment, then Tiny-Scheme may be more appropriate. 15:56:00 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 15:56:32 Riastradh, i just want to get started with scheme so i guess i would use mit scheme 15:57:00 Then follow the directions for `GNU/Linux binary' or for `Other unix'. `Other unix' is probably better since you're not using Debian or Ubuntu. 15:57:12 Riastradh, i am trying that 15:57:21 I presume you are running on an x86 system, by the way. 15:57:32 Riastradh, of course 15:59:43 Riastradh, it compiled alright but the binary is not runny 15:59:47 dlt____ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 15:59:50 i did ./configure and make 15:59:54 mit-scheme-native: can't find a readable default for option --band. 15:59:54 searched for file all.com in these directories: 15:59:54 /usr/local/lib/mit-scheme 15:59:54 Inconsistency detected. 15:59:58 it shoes this 16:00:19 I don't care how f***ing not runny it is; hand it over with all due speed 16:00:28 Oh...the cat's eaten it! 16:00:45 rick_2047, you must specify (1) exactly what you typed... 16:01:01 So, if exactly what you typed is `./configure and make', or perhaps even `./configure && make', or perhaps just `./configure' and `make' separately, then you didn't follow the directions. 16:01:31 there is no readme in there 16:01:34 The directions to which I refer are at . 16:02:00 Riastradh, o 16:02:07 -!- davidad [n=me@RANDOM-THREE-EIGHTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:02:15 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@host-64-179-113-99.col.choiceone.net] has left #scheme 16:06:44 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@78-1-152-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:07:10 Adamant [n=Adamant@130.254.103.13] has joined #scheme 16:07:19 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:07:33 repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:07:36 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:07:48 jlongster [n=user@75.148.111.133] has joined #scheme 16:08:00 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.17.146.221] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:09:11 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:13:21 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-12.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 16:15:31 kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 16:16:44 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 16:16:51 -!- rick_2047 [n=rick@59.95.207.198] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:18:22 Don't use TinyScheme! 16:19:02 -!- dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:19:04 dlt_ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 16:23:01 dlt__ [n=dlt@201.80.187.243] has joined #scheme 16:23:46 -!- dlt_ 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16:46:08 Def [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has joined #scheme 16:46:08 wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:46:08 eli [n=eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 16:46:41 -!- Elly [n=elly@unaffiliated/elly] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:54:16 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 17:00:31 Riastradh, it compiled alright but the binary is not runny 17:00:38 ^ the binary is a chicken egg? ;) 17:02:44 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@217.Red-79-156-65.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:03:21 wingo-tp [n=wingo@24.Red-81-39-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 17:04:18 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:05:14 leppie: ah, maybe if i override all of the build- constructors, i can make something with source info 17:05:46 they are always #f :*( 17:06:03 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #scheme 17:06:04 the source info? 17:06:17 search in expander for applications of build-XXX 17:07:04 ah maybe that's in aziz' implementation 17:07:16 in dybvig's original psyntax source info appears to be propagated 17:07:27 *wingo-tp* hopes, anyway, hacking to see 17:07:38 it's no0source 17:08:05 sorry 17:08:11 it's no-source 17:08:26 where is the original? 17:09:33 e.g. https://www.cs.indiana.edu/chezscheme/syntax-case/7.3/psyntax.ss 17:12:11 psyntax is so much magic 17:12:19 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #scheme 17:14:24 thanks for the links :) it does contain a lot more comments than aziz's version 17:16:26 yeah definitely 17:17:17 but aziz's does contain all the R6RS macros :) 17:17:52 heh, yeah 17:18:16 i'm working on pulling guile into r6-land. one of these days :) 17:18:40 hah! source info does exist. 17:18:45 excellent. 17:18:58 in aziz's version? 17:19:18 in dybvig's. probably in aziz's too, if he doesn't throw it away 17:19:29 thats the impression i got 17:19:51 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 17:21:47 nope, all 76 lines contianing (build- has no-source as the first argument 17:22:11 except build-void :) 17:23:56 got all excited for nothing :( 17:25:37 but maybe I can poke around to see if values are available 17:26:24 yeah, shouldn't be a big change 17:26:26 that means I can probably get step debugging working 17:26:31 yeah1 17:26:32 ! 17:26:40 *wingo-tp* -> out for a while, happy hacking 17:26:44 :) 17:27:56 ramkrsna_ [n=ramkrsna@123.236.183.133] has joined #scheme 17:30:59 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 17:33:56 schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A087B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #scheme 17:35:36 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:37:08 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@hermes.lanit.ru] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:38:37 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:45:13 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@24.Red-81-39-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:50:57 aaco_ [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 17:50:58 parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has joined #scheme 17:51:30 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 17:51:33 -!- aaco_ is now known as aaco 17:57:22 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 17:58:02 fzort [n=fzort@201.6.8.150] has joined #scheme 17:59:05 hi 17:59:20 hi 17:59:43 hi 17:59:55 100% 18:00:02 anyone care to look at some code and tell me if i'm doing something wrong? the code: http://fuse.superglue.se/bullet.scm.txt 18:00:19 there may be something wrong with make-generator 18:00:37 change 18:00:38 (lambda () (continuation)) 18:00:38 into 18:00:40 continuation 18:01:12 cripes 18:01:13 thanks 18:01:20 this doesn't fix your problem 18:01:33 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 18:01:39 yeah 18:02:05 I don't know what yeild is supposed to do 18:02:13 i'm not sure if there's a problem actually... i'm trying to use scheme as a scripting language in a game (with tinyscheme), things are working fine, except that i get a memory leak when i use make-generator 18:04:16 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #scheme 18:05:28 perhaps the generator cant be GC'd because you are still holding onto it 18:08:02 wingo-tp [n=wingo@24.Red-81-39-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:08:14 -!- jao [n=jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:11:39 seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 18:12:01 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-201-67-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 18:15:59 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [] 18:19:10 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-199-108-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:20:04 -!- repror___ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit ["Leaving..."] 18:21:37 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-12.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:23:36 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:24:31 i'm not holding to it :/ 18:25:43 vixey: (make-generator (lambda (yield) (let loop ((i 0)) (yield i) (loop (+ i 1)))) makes a function that returns 0, 1, 2, 3, ... when called 18:26:16 fzort you don't need CWCC for that 18:26:34 wwell maybe you prefer to do it that way, that is fine 18:27:10 vixey: in that simple case yes, but with more complex logic it's either that or a complex state machine 18:27:15 fzort, if that's all it does though make-generator maybe doesn't have to be so complex 18:28:08 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:28:24 vixey: this is for a game... i want to have these little functions that will get called to update the state of game objects, the idea is to call them on each game tick 18:28:39 ejs [n=eugen@94-248-68-244.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #scheme 18:28:49 vixey: make-generator would make their code simpler 18:28:55 vixey: what do you mean? 18:28:58 but can you make make-generator simpler too? 18:29:29 er... how? :) 18:29:37 I dont' know 18:29:52 it seems extra complex than required to me 18:29:54 i'm still kinda new to scheme... i based that on the code in the call/cc chapter of t-y-scheme 18:29:57 let's figure it out 18:30:12 (DEFINE CWCC CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION) 18:30:21 there is some shorthand 18:30:46 alrighty :) 18:31:02 (DEFINE COUNTER (lambda (yield) (let loop ((i 0)) (yield i) (loop (+ i 1)))) 18:31:30 now if you just do (CWCC COUNTER), I guess that gives back 0 and no continuation 18:31:58 yep :) 18:32:01 is the usual abbrevation of CALL/CC unavailable? 18:32:15 it is :) 18:32:17 ayrnieu, I'm somehow against that abbreviation 18:33:45 Ragnaroek [i=54a66609@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b275baef1270e4d9] has joined #scheme 18:34:28 (CWCC COUNTER) 18:34:30 oops 18:35:08 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:35:13 I was going to say that presumably: (CWCC COUNTER) = (CWCC (LAMBDA (K) (COUNTER (LAMBDA (X) (K X)))) 18:35:39 just eta expanding on either side of the procedure 18:36:01 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 18:36:15 is that true? 18:36:21 fzort, that equation 18:36:21 -!- kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 18:38:32 leppie: i realize it's not the same as in a modern psyntax, but http://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=guile.git;a=commitdiff;h=35289f24eef5b85d34dd8be4eb847797b2551ece 18:38:34 -rudybot:#scheme- http://tinyurl.com/d9k888 18:40:09 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:40:46 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has left #scheme 18:41:47 vixey: so far so good 18:42:51 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66609@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-b275baef1270e4d9] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 18:43:58 fzort, I know that you could do like 18:44:01 (COUNTER DISPLAY) 18:44:03 and it would print them all 18:44:12 whereas (CWCC COUNTER) takes the first one out 18:44:28 so I'm wondering if we could derive an operator to split a computation into two paths 18:46:20 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:46:23 Ragnaroek [i=54a66609@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c3b75f53a945f0d1] has joined #scheme 18:46:25 vixey: make-generator saves the current continuation before returning a value - (set! current ...), so the next time you call the function the previous continuation is used 18:50:55 kniu [n=kniu@128.237.254.29] has joined #scheme 18:53:58 chupish [i=c03a96bb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-25f9d0f1e8bae312] has joined #scheme 18:54:02 I want to derive it fom scratch :( 18:54:25 -!- chupish [i=c03a96bb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-25f9d0f1e8bae312] has quit [Client Quit] 18:54:55 it's probably a bug in tinyscheme :) 18:55:50 rudybot: init r5rs 18:55:51 vixey: your r5rs sandbox is ready 18:56:12 rudybot: eval (DEFINE CWCC CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION) 18:56:18 rudybot: eval (DEFINE COUNTER (lambda (yield) (let loop ((i 0)) (yield i) (loop (+ i 1)))) 18:56:18 vixey: error: eval:1:0: read: expected a `)' to close `(' 18:56:19 neat 18:56:23 rudybot: eval (DEFINE COUNTER (lambda (yield) (let loop ((i 0)) (yield i) (loop (+ i 1))))) 18:56:35 rudybot: eval (COUNTER DISPLAY) 18:56:39 vixey: error: with-limit: out of time 18:56:41 rudybot: eval (CWCC COUNTER) 18:56:42 vixey: ; Value: 0 18:56:44 vixey: error: with-limit: out of memory 18:56:53 rudybot: eval (CWCC (LAMBDA (K) (COUNTER K))) 18:56:54 vixey: ; Value: 0 18:56:55 it's an infinite loop :) 18:56:59 rudybot: eval (CWCC (LAMBDA (K) (COUNTER (LAMBDA (X) (K X))))) 18:57:00 vixey: ; Value: 0 18:57:06 rudybot: eval (CWCC (LAMBDA (K) (COUNTER (LAMBDA (X) (DISPLAY X))))) 18:57:10 vixey: error: with-limit: out of time 18:58:06 rudybot: eval (CWCC (LAMBDA (K) (COUNTER (LAMBDA (X) (CWCC (LAMBDA (J) (CONS (K X) J))))))) 18:58:06 vixey: ; Value: 0 18:58:08 vixey: error: with-limit: out of memory 18:58:18 rudybot: eval (CWCC (LAMBDA (K) (COUNTER (LAMBDA (X) (CWCC (LAMBDA (J) (K (CONS X J)))))))) 18:58:18 vixey: ; Value: {0 . #} 18:58:33 rudybot: eval ((CDR (CWCC (LAMBDA (K) (COUNTER (LAMBDA (X) (CWCC (LAMBDA (J) (K (CONS X J)))))))))) 18:58:36 vixey: error: with-limit: out of time 18:58:47 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:00:45 0_o 19:01:20 I don't understand why 19:01:27 rudybot: eval (CWCC (CDR (CWCC (LAMBDA (K) (COUNTER (LAMBDA (X) (CWCC (LAMBDA (J) (K (CONS X J)))))))))) 19:01:30 doesn't return 1 19:01:30 vixey: error: with-limit: out of time 19:02:07 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #scheme 19:02:47 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@fq-wireless-pittnet-237.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:03:35 because yield in COUNTER is still the first continuation? 19:05:08 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["too distracting"] 19:05:44 Casualty-Headcra [n=thomash@d142-179-21-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #scheme 19:06:33 langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has joined #scheme 19:10:29 Hia, I got this book called Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs and I was wondering where I could get an interpreter for copying the examples etc (sorry for the utter noobyness)... 19:10:45 -!- Elly_ is now known as Elly 19:11:43 get a scheme interpreter 19:11:55 http://www.google.com/search?q=scheme+interpreter 19:12:06 lol yeah I did that exact search 19:12:12 I just don't know which one, thats all 19:13:53 Casualty-Headcra: I think Dr. Scheme, the PLT scheme environment, is your best bet 19:15:19 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:18:01 -!- fzort [n=fzort@201.6.8.150] has left #scheme 19:19:45 -!- jah [n=jah@132.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:25:19 okay thanks :) 19:25:51 So I just install the PLT package and it will come with Dr. Scheme? Or do I install it as an addon or whatever 19:25:56 can anyone derrive this continuation ting 19:25:58 ? 19:26:02 what's a nice way to do ti 19:26:47 SICP is a pretty heavy book... good god 19:26:53 I just started to read it today 19:27:05 Casualty-Headcra, there is a reading group in ##SICP btw 19:27:09 as well as #scheme 19:27:30 Oh cool 19:29:05 reading group in #scheme? 19:29:38 grammer nazi.. 19:30:09 Casualty-Headcra: are you calling me a grammar nazi? 19:30:31 nope, please dont hurt me 19:30:41 *proq* is confused 19:32:16 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@c-67-186-56-85.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:33:29 dum de dum 19:33:39 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@c-67-186-56-85.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #scheme 19:36:41 drdo [n=psykon@167.111.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #scheme 19:41:38 please don't abuse the word nazi 19:42:05 vixey: there is a reading group in #scheme? 19:42:18 proq I don't thikn so 19:42:44 ok. was wondering how I missed that 19:43:17 Ragnaroek: you're a nazi nazi! 19:45:05 are you insane!!! 19:45:14 idiot 19:45:32 lol 19:45:33 ? 19:45:44 drdo some kind of insanity 19:45:51 *proq* gets the popcorn 19:47:25 chupish [i=c03a96bb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ee24c4ba53338049] has joined #scheme 19:55:27 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 19:56:57 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [No route to host] 20:02:12 jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:03:42 Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-82-81-47-32.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #scheme 20:05:14 -!- ramkrsna_ [n=ramkrsna@123.236.183.133] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:07:10 -!- ddvlad [n=ddvlad@p5.eregie.pub.ro] has quit [] 20:08:03 -!- david000 [n=david@lan.proporta.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:10:33 davidad1 [n=me@wireless-24-148.media.mit.edu] has joined #scheme 20:10:38 -!- davidad [n=me@wireless-24-148.media.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11:09 -!- kniu [n=kniu@128.237.254.29] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:12:46 Is anyone familiar with an open source java compiler for scheme? 20:14:08 -!- Ragnaroek [i=54a66609@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c3b75f53a945f0d1] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 20:18:18 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-164-217.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 20:21:30 Tankado: I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but you might look at Kawa, JScheme, or Bigloo 20:22:10 SISC 20:22:27 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 20:22:30 thanks 20:23:23 yeah SISC is great for me 20:24:03 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 20:24:48 well there you go 20:25:48 note that SISC is technically an interpreter, not a compiler 20:26:05 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has quit [Client Quit] 20:26:06 this may or may not matter 20:26:16 Arelius [n=Indy@209.77.67.98] has joined #scheme 20:26:28 it's embeddable too 20:26:35 ok, i am more interested in the way from scheme code to some sord of an AST 20:27:00 and i guess thats good enough for me 20:27:42 what about PVTS then? 20:27:48 It's meant for this sort of learning 20:28:05 i will check them all.. thanks you two 20:28:13 http://www.davidpilo.com/pvts/ 20:28:15 sure 20:35:36 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 20:38:21 amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #scheme 20:39:40 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 20:40:57 araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #scheme 20:42:22 -!- Tankado [n=Woodruff@bzq-82-81-47-32.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [] 20:49:51 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:51:07 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:53:22 -!- ejs [n=eugen@94-248-68-244.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:54:31 -!- bweaver [n=user@67.161.236.94] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 21:04:59 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:05:09 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 21:06:37 hadronzoo_ [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-161-87.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 21:09:09 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 21:09:51 -!- schmalbe [n=bernhard@p549A087B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:15:41 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:08 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-247-164-217.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:16:38 djjack [n=djjack@cpe-098-026-029-215.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 21:30:40 -!- parodyoflanguage [n=user@mmds-216-19-34-118.twm.az.commspeed.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:37:33 -!- aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:39:49 -!- davidad1 [n=me@wireless-24-148.media.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:41:38 -!- elmex [i=elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:42:04 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:43:13 incubot: while ircing with my great-grandmother-in-law on the phone, i accidently uttered "latex"; luckily, it was LaTeX and not latex 21:43:13 -!- Def [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 21:43:16 I would disbelieve that statement if uttered by anyone at all except Chuck. 21:43:22 heh 21:43:38 klutometis, mutually recursive procedures. 21:43:39 elmex [i=elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has joined #scheme 21:43:47 incubot: Mutually recursive procedures! 21:43:49 to further muddy the waters, you can often mutually 'reduce' things to each other. 21:44:08 incubot, I think Muddy Water's not so bad; what do you think of him? 21:44:11 Does that muddy the waters enough for you? 21:44:38 incubot, no, I'm asking about Muddy Waters the blues musician. 21:44:40 meh, I like Lead Belly better 21:44:41 Furthermore, you will need patience. You are exploring unknown waters, so it might take a time before you get around it. I am a global learner for instance. I do not understand something until I reach the end of the book 21:45:20 good evening schemers. 21:45:56 uh-oh, more JavaScript promises! 21:46:15 Riastradh: that's fantastic; if one were clever enough, TCO shouldn't have to be sacrificed either, I assume? 21:46:32 *Riastradh* blinks. 21:46:55 *Riastradh* rolls out the alter and unsheathes the sacred knife. 21:46:58 Or did you have something else in mind? 21:47:03 (Altar, even.) 21:47:46 In other words, I shouldn't have to resort to CPS, should I? 21:48:04 You should never have to write CPS in Scheme I think 21:48:15 that's like one of the things that makes Scheme different isn't it? 21:48:20 What is the problem you are trying to solve, to which you suspect CPS or the sacrifice of TCO to be the solution? 21:48:37 Riastradh: state machine via mutual recursion 21:48:49 Please be precise. 21:49:00 Or, to be precise, specific. 21:50:19 chupish: / 21:50:21 er 21:50:22 I'd like to write a state machine without enclosing mutables; your suggestion: mutual recursion. 21:50:22 ? 21:50:34 klutometis, which state machine? 21:50:35 I'll have to implement first, I'm afraid, before I can get much more specific. 21:50:47 What is the state machine you are trying to express? 21:50:59 vixey: i'm writing a docbook to latex parser, for instance; and i have to see the whole table before i can get the max number of columns 21:51:16 since i'm using ssax, looking at the table iteratively is very unnatural 21:51:34 so i'm going to set up a small state machine in the context of the recursive xml parser to store the max columns 21:52:26 i've resorted to a mutable enlosing variable COLS, which I SET! after every encounter with a row 21:52:51 (set! COLS (max COLS (length row))), for instance 21:53:43 anyway, it's my only foray into mutation for the whole damn project 21:53:48 and i'd like to squelch it 21:54:13 You're using SSAX as a SAX parser, right? Not it's DOMoid application? 21:54:22 right 21:54:43 So you don't control the control flow? (The control flow control is SSAX's!) 21:55:15 (Which is different from whether SSAX can control flow control, naturally, and probably it doesn't muck with your terminal baud rate at all.) 21:55:54 You can specify *macro* for instance, which forces a post-processing of children, I believe. 21:56:05 Huh? 21:56:27 that's part of the pre-post-order grammar 21:56:29 Anyway, SSAX lets you pass your own state through the control flow. 21:56:49 Presumably in this state you could include the maximum number of columns thus far encountered. 21:57:30 Riastradh: hmm, good point; I could fashion an SXML datum which gets subsequently filtered out. 21:57:37 SXML datum? 21:57:41 Where did SXML enter into this? 21:58:14 I'm thinking about how to serialize state for future invocations of the parser. 21:58:47 Otherwise, I'm not sure how you would preserve state; except by using closures around the parsing rule. 21:59:35 Riastradh: but whatever the mechanism: yes, let's assume that state is preservable. 21:59:49 Preserve state? 22:00:28 NNshag [i=user@94.140.7.134] has joined #scheme 22:00:31 The parser encounters a ROW datum, for instance; I'll need to remember max-columns across future encounters, won't I? 22:00:57 You've lost me. 22:01:17 Shit; whence should I restart? 22:01:34 Start by describing what you're doing with SSAX. 22:02:18 [ev] [n=niklas@ua-83-227-230-90.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 22:02:19 I have a rule set for translating docbook entities; one such rule handles tables, which has a subrule for dealing with rows. 22:02:52 LaTeX demands knowing the number of columns in a table in advance, such that I have to count columns in each row and report the max columns to LaTeX. 22:02:56 OK. 22:03:05 wingo-tp: 'twas a joke, that was some nice work 22:03:37 I proposed setting up a simple state machine to record the max columns; which I did with an enclosing variable COLS that I mutated upon every encounter with a row. 22:04:01 So when you enter a table, set up the state for processing rows. When you see a row in that state, adjust the number of columns. When you exit the table, deal with the accumulated information from the rows and return the state to whatever condition it must be in for the siblings of the table. 22:05:23 Riastradh: precisely; but I'm intrigued by your idea of using mutually recursive functions instead of enclosing, mutable variables. 22:05:25 amaron_ [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #scheme 22:05:48 -!- chupish [i=c03a96bb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ee24c4ba53338049] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 22:05:49 Never mind mutually recursive procedures; I assumed that you, rather than SSAX, controlled control flow. 22:05:54 I see. 22:06:11 I don't see why you want to use mutable variables, though. 22:06:34 kniu [n=kniu@65.196.126.11] has joined #scheme 22:07:21 But that's the gist of my inquiry: if not mutables, if not mutual recursion, by what mechanism can you maintain a simple state machine? 22:07:25 Here is an example of an SSAX state machine: . 22:07:41 Enquiry, even. 22:08:19 It's a little unpleasant because the description is a little disjoint; the parts that push the stack are separate from the corresponding parts that pop the stack. It would be nice to develop a better language for this, but I didn't have time to do that. 22:10:23 -!- amaron [n=amaron@cable-94-189-243-158.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:10:47 Riastradh: how uncanny; I was just about to write an RDF parser. 22:10:53 What's an `RDF parser'? 22:11:38 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-12.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:12:19 Or, rather: we're transitioning from docbook to RDF + XHTML for an internal representation. 22:13:34 -!- kniu [n=kniu@65.196.126.11] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:16:13 Anyway, the way that you read this code is basically as a pair of adjacency lists. The first adjacency list, HANDLE-NEW-LEVEL-SEED, describes the edges for transition when the parser encounters a new element's opening tag. The second adjacency list, HANDLE-FINISH-ELEMENT, describes the edges for transitions when the parser reads the element's closing tag. 22:16:45 (And there's a third adjacency list, HANDLE-CHAR-DATA, but few edges fall into that category.) 22:16:47 kniu [n=kniu@65.196.126.11] has joined #scheme 22:17:04 defietse` [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #scheme 22:17:20 -!- defietse` [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:17:47 -!- defietser [n=user@s559195f7.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 22:18:08 -!- NNshag [i=user@94.140.7.134] has quit ["Quitte"] 22:18:11 This is a state machine, of infinitely many states, although the states can be classified into finitely many classes, each with a different name, such as START, START-HEAD, HEAD, VARIABLE, &c. 22:20:46 I believe this state machine also has the property that for each class of edges from a single class A of states corresponding with the opening tag of an E element, there is a unique class of edges back to A for the closing tag of an E element. 22:21:09 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:21:34 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:21:37 I suspect that one could engineer a much nicer languages for state machines having this property, so that the state machine more closely resembles ordinary program control flow. The two classes of edges that I described correspond with pushing and popping the stack, or entering recursive combinations and returning from recursive combinations. 22:21:53 Clear? There'll be a quiz on Tuesday. 22:22:30 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 22:23:08 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-25.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 22:25:55 Riastradh will it cover continuations 22:25:56 ? 22:30:28 Riastradh: I'm speechless. 22:30:30 aaco [n=aaco@unaffiliated/aaco] has joined #scheme 22:31:42 jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has joined #scheme 22:35:42 *Casualty-Headcra* head explodes 22:36:30 *Casualty-Headcra* 's head explodes (:\ 22:37:16 -!- seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 22:38:13 Riastradh: over the course of rereading it several dozen times, it's gone from mysterious to epiphanous. 22:39:13 *klutometis* now knows how Watson feels after the unraveling of an adventure. 22:43:31 -!- langmartin [n=user@adsl-074-167-038-128.sip.cha.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:44:34 seangrove [n=seangrov@cpe-76-90-50-75.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 22:47:26 Elementry my dear klutometis 22:48:47 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has joined #scheme 22:51:23 chaoslynx [n=cpehle@p57A73EF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 22:56:57 JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 23:00:50 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-138-129.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:01:58 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-222-233-243.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:02:45 -!- kniu [n=kniu@65.196.126.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:10:46 vixey: exactly; just like the solution to [insert generic dynamic programming problem here], it's obvious with hindsight 23:14:56 *ski* vinkar tillbaka till mejja 23:23:38 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 23:28:35 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:30:32 -!- proq [n=user@38.100.211.40] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32:14 -!- xwl [n=user@114.245.137.118] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:32:36 -!- JoelMcCracken [n=joelmccr@pool-72-95-204-183.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has left #scheme 23:35:30 -!- kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has left #scheme 23:41:36 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 23:47:19 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:50:09 hi 23:50:55 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 23:51:57 -!- vixey [n=yoo@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Quitting!"] 23:53:28 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@217.205.201.45] has quit [] 23:53:54 -!- jao [n=jao@221.Red-79-155-152.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:56:50 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme