00:00:52 too bad i didn't solve it in a constant amount of space...i don't see how that's possible. 00:02:11 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:06:46 peter_12 [n=peter_12@209.226.201.250] has joined #scheme 00:07:40 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:16:44 -!- Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:19:10 rotty: if you're building a FFI, you can enable debugging symbols on it and use gdb to find which function in the FFI is calling malloc in such a fashion. malloc should never segfault though, so your problem probably corrupted the stack earlier than that. That's not quite as easy to find... 00:19:50 personally I just use FFIs and assume they are already pretty much bug free. 00:20:04 -!- iion_tichy1 [n=Bjoern@g225040107.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:20:52 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@209.226.201.250] has quit [] 00:21:26 it's far more likely my use of the FFI corrupted the stack, and it only happened to fail in the FFI coincidentally. 00:21:54 Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 00:22:46 -!- Reloaden [n=reloaded@89-139-77-173.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:23:18 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-75-51-178-95.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 00:25:31 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 00:34:02 valgrind 00:34:36 -!- Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #scheme 00:40:18 that only tells you a memory leak happened, not stack corruption :p 00:41:02 are you sure? 00:41:10 I seem to recall valgrind catches ... pretty much everything. 00:41:13 by magic. 00:41:39 Valgrind keeps tabs on _every_ bit (literally!) of memory 00:42:01 If something's uninitialized, Valgrind knows about it 00:42:16 I once had valgrind chastise me for not leaving any money in the collection plate at church. 00:42:22 :) 00:42:23 I still don't know how it found out 00:42:38 I don't know how good the tools are, though 00:43:09 (so if it knows something is fucked, I'm not sure how well you will able to find out about it) 00:44:03 -!- leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-39-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:45:45 leppie [n=lolcow@196-210-170-39-wblv-esr-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 00:49:47 arcfide: that's probably what I'll end up doing 00:50:01 valgrind is nice but not perfect 00:50:05 it's worth using though 00:50:22 if the path isn't exercised valgrind no worky 00:50:46 -!- mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:51:06 rotty: What FFI is this? 00:51:46 rotty: Most FFI code that I have written is small enough or simple enough that I can debug it by hand. I try to keep as much of the code on the Scheme side as possible until I start having crazy things happen. 00:51:51 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:52:42 synx: sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I'm writing code *using* an FFI (i.e. a Scheme API that allows to call C functions). Now that *Scheme* code I wrote has a memory leak (or rather several), but conventional tools will only tell me that I have a leak, not in what section of my Scheme code it happened... 00:53:38 arcfide: it's a wrapper for GObject-Introspection (mostly using Ikarus, but it works also on MzScheme) 00:53:50 Egadz. 00:54:14 (and the code is not really simple) 00:54:25 *arcfide* flees. 00:56:00 arcfide: to add to your horror, here's a link to the code http://download.gna.org/spells/darcs/r6rs/sbank/ ;-) 00:57:08 Mmm, I think I preferred it when I was developing in Motif. :-) 01:00:43 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFC19A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:01:50 gobject-introspection is really nice, IMO -- you get bindings for all GObject-based libraries basically for free, once you've got the binding framework working. 01:02:26 (and sbank is already working, to a certain degree) 01:03:48 arcfide: btw, there is *no* C side in sbank -- it's Scheme all the way 01:08:05 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:14:26 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-323686.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 01:17:07 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF5EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 01:17:22 xx283 [n=xx@p4FD3C74A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:23:11 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0575AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:23:41 Has GNU/MIT Scheme an FFI? 01:30:59 -!- inimino [n=inimino@atekomi.inimino.org] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 01:32:21 -!- mqt [i=tran@monaco.nirv.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:40:07 inimino [n=inimino@atekomi.inimino.org] has joined #scheme 01:42:56 HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 01:44:09 raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 01:59:35 orgy__ [n=ratm_@pD9FFDE43.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 02:15:50 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFC19A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:20:12 jao: Hahaha. Funny man you are. 02:21:09 arcfide, what's so funny? 02:21:51 jao: You can manage to access external libraries from MIT Scheme, if that is what you wish to do, but proceed with caution. ;-) 02:22:48 arcfide, yes, that's i want to (cautiously) do... do you know where i can learn how? 02:23:14 Look in the source of MIT Scheme. There are some samples in there, though I doubt they are pretty. 02:23:31 For example, Edwin manages it, as does the PostgreSQL stuff. 02:23:31 OK, thanks. 02:23:37 aha 02:24:00 I think the DB interface does too. 02:24:47 i will take a look. 02:32:31 hey jao 02:33:04 hi duncanm 02:35:52 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:51:18 -!- jao [n=jao@252.Red-79-155-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:52:20 -!- orgy__ [n=ratm_@pD9FFDE43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 02:58:07 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:59:15 benny` [n=benny@i577A127C.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 03:01:16 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:07:06 -!- Jimi_Hendrix [n=Jimi@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:07:32 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:07:42 berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 03:07:45 hey 03:07:48 someone there 03:07:57 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:10:20 someone is there. 03:11:49 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76306 can you chck it out pls 03:13:02 do you have a question, or do you want comments on this? 03:14:23 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0D76.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:14:55 jao [n=jao@40.Red-83-33-183.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 03:16:17 no i want to a question 03:16:25 ask a question 03:17:13 then ask it. 03:17:32 i have a problem in find-bounds i used filterx function. For example (lambda x (lambda y (((lambda z (lambda t (y z) x) t) 03:17:41 must return x y z t as bound variable 03:17:48 reprore__ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:17:50 but my function returns x y 03:17:57 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:18:08 i have a problem but i cannot know how i can fix that 03:18:25 i wrote some test cases under find-bounds 03:18:45 ho can i fix filterx function to work correctly my quesstion is that 03:19:24 could i tell my problem ? 03:21:06 "For example (lambda x (lambda y (((lambda z (lambda t (y z) x) t)" <-- filterx doesn't in this. 03:21:14 your test cases don't work on filterx directly. 03:21:34 how do you call filterx, what results do you want, and what results do you get? 03:22:49 hmm 03:22:53 just a second 03:23:04 i used filterx in find-bounds 03:23:43 (func-def (name body) (filterx name (find-bounds body))) 03:23:43 (func 03:23:48 03:23:59 (func-def (name body) (filterx name (find-bounds body))) 03:23:59 03:25:41 and my test cases (func-def 'w (func-def 'y (func-def 'z (func-def 't (func-app (func-app (func-app (id 't) (id 'z)) (id 'y)) (id 'w))))))) this abstract form of (lambda w (lambda y (lambda z (lambda t (((t z) y)w).I expect w y t z it returns w y 03:26:43 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:26:55 ayrnieu, you are still there 03:28:15 I'm still here, but I'm too distracted to dig through that just to put your question together. Someone else may help you. 03:30:34 ayrnieu, my only problem is not taking the correct result from find-bounds.My filterx doesnt work correctly.Pls say something to fix that. 03:30:54 i try to fix it during 5 hours i am very newbie 03:31:23 metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 03:53:14 -!- levi` is now known as levi 03:53:35 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 04:03:14 levi, can you say something about my problem any fix method whatever 04:05:05 berat: You need to explain your system and detail your problem in concise, clear English. Then, maybe someone will be able to point out your problem if they have time to understand what you are trying to do. 04:05:36 So far, you have not spoken or detailed your problem clearly enough, and in a manner such that I can spend time on it. 04:05:53 okey 04:05:56 thanks 04:06:21 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:06:22 You should also respect the fact that everyone here has things that need to get done, so it would help your case if you can spend some time cleaning things up, clarifying, and making sure you understand what you are doing, so that you can explain it to use. 04:06:24 s/use/us/ 04:06:49 yes you are right i apologize all of you 04:06:55 sorry for that araujo 04:07:20 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:07:24 berat: We all like to help, but we also weigh the costs. :-) 04:07:35 right 04:07:50 i sit infornt of computer about 10 hours 04:07:58 When I took a quick look at your code, I could not understand at all what you were trying to accomplish. 04:08:21 my through fly away sorry 04:08:27 You may want to sit down an write out what you want to do, after sleeping on it a bit. This might help you fix your own issue. 04:08:32 minion: advice for berat 04:08:32 berat: #11942: Sure, but you have to have some understanding also. 04:08:38 LOL 04:08:48 heya arcfide. 04:08:51 yes you are right 04:08:58 elf: Hey, what's up? 04:09:09 nothing much, yourself. 04:09:09 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 04:09:12 elf: You don't happen to have a SPARQL parser lying around, do you? 04:09:18 sparql? 04:09:31 Or maybe some white papers on proper implementation. 04:09:46 never heard of sparql. 04:09:48 what is? 04:09:52 A query language and protocol oriented towards RDF. 04:09:56 hm. 04:10:15 It's going to form the basis of my search server. 04:10:25 you want it in schme? 04:10:51 (more than the w3 report, youre asking?) 04:11:02 Well, if there were some general white paper or research on the correct implementation that had small snippets in some other language, I would probably take that, but the things out there seem to be excessively over-engineered and quite messy to read through. 04:11:16 elf: Well, I am pretty sure there is no server written in Scheme at the moment. 04:11:20 So, I want to implement one. 04:11:31 I'd like some pointers on implementing one. 04:11:40 have you looked at jena? 04:11:56 jena's site has a tonne of reference papers. 04:12:03 Yes, and it seems to be the main reference. 04:12:07 yeah. 04:12:10 theres not much. 04:12:22 But it is rather complex and hairy, nonetheless. 04:12:25 is this an active spec? 04:12:33 It appears to be. 04:12:45 Well, recent enough, but if you mean currectnly changing, I don't know. 04:13:00 (youve looked at sparql.org, too, which has the reference implementation?) 04:13:02 i wrote my problem clearly.http://paste.lisp.org/display/76306 my code is in that address. I find bound variables in lambda senteces. Simple lambda sentence is (lambda x x) x is bound variable because it is bounded by lambda anyway.I try to write function that gets this job done.But i have a some problem in filterx function you can see on the link.it just return two thing in the list.For example (lambda x (lambda y (lambda z ((x y) z))) it return x,y bu 04:13:02 t it must return x y z or (lambda x(lambda y(lambda z (lambda t (((t y) x )z))) it must return x y z t it returns x y.I ask how can i fix my filterx function.I hope this is clear. 04:13:43 i am away one two hours 04:13:53 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:14:31 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 04:14:45 ill look at it if youd like, arcfide. im not clear about how good this is. reading the w3 documents is giving me the 'solution in search of a problem' feeling. 04:14:56 elf: It seems that they just point back to the ARQ engine in Jena. 04:15:06 hm. 04:15:14 so theres one implementation of this? 04:15:25 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:15:28 Well, this is a solution to querying RDF, which is my current solution for describing Scheme libraries. 04:15:44 whats the advantage of rdf? 04:15:51 elf: No, there are many more, and they are mostly all written in nasty languages and have huge cost of entry to reading their code. 04:16:12 elf: It's standardized, well documented, open, and has "buzz-word" clout. 04:16:45 It allows me to describe the language I wish to use to describe the resources in a way that other code out there already knows how to handle and use. 04:17:10 Thus, the descriptions of the libraries are already easily understood by a wide range of libraries. 04:17:55 is this level of complexity required to describe scheme libraries, though? 04:18:12 what goes into the description? 04:18:23 elf: Not really. :-) However, it's basically not any more complex to use than what I was writing myself, so...*shrug*. 04:18:38 -!- gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has quit ["Leaving."] 04:18:48 elf: If you want, I can send you the Schema as currently written. I haven't published it yet. 04:19:16 yes please :) 04:19:19 Basically, this is just a well established technology that I can use to make things more portable. 04:19:35 m, if its this complex, that makes it less portable, even if its standard. 04:19:48 elf: Well, code is already out there to work as a client. 04:19:54 hm. 04:19:55 It's just that the server isn't written in Scheme yet. 04:19:58 I intend to fix that. 04:20:03 i see. 04:20:04 There actually is some level of a Scheme client. 04:20:15 portable scheme client? 04:20:25 (or semiportable, as network shtuff aint portable) 04:21:18 elf: It's Riastradh's Schemantic Web code. 04:21:36 I have ported a large segment of it to Chez, and it's available for Scheme48 and mostly MIT Scheme as well. 04:21:57 The SPARQL stuff is the hairest part, and I haven't bothered with that yet, since I don't have the server written. 04:22:09 wheres the schemantic web code? 04:22:11 However, I can parse RDF files easily enough now. 04:22:42 elf: 04:22:57 thankee. 04:22:58 nothingHappens [n=nothingH@12.152.199.77] has joined #scheme 04:23:02 I don't know if I have committed my Chez Scheme port of the stuff yet, but I think I have committed a large portion of it. 04:24:06 Yeah, it looks like most of the RDF stuff is committed to my CVS repo. 04:25:04 Basically, the static serving of these libraries isn't going to be very hard. 04:25:23 And I am thinking of just delaying the querying part until I have the static part up and running. 04:25:30 *elf* nods. 04:25:32 *elf* thinks. 04:25:41 lots of code to read. 04:27:44 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 04:29:48 elf: Yes, it is lot's of code. It took me a little bit of time to get through all of it and get it ported, but that was because I was also porting parscheme and trc-testing. 04:34:48 Anyways, I need to get to bed. 04:34:59 sleep well, mr arcfide :) 04:35:21 Hah. 04:35:53 Let me know what you think. I intend to try to "sell" the idea to most of the Scheme implementations and coders so that we can share code in a very fast, efficient manner. 04:36:08 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:36:17 It will make library publishing easier and it will make finding libraries easier for people who want to use them. 04:36:20 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 04:36:23 thankee. :) ill look after sarah doesnt need me. :) 04:36:25 aye. 04:36:46 Anyways, I hope to have it mostly ready for people to start using by the end of this semester. 04:36:48 See ya. 04:37:00 have a good night :) 04:45:33 aldig [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has joined #scheme 04:52:14 anyway i will ask my question later i am gone.I hope in the future someone answer me :D 04:52:27 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-323686.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 04:53:04 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-323686.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 04:55:03 good night 04:59:19 saccade [n=saccade@c-76-118-180-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 05:00:55 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:10:33 tjafk1 [n=timj@e176215202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:13:01 -!- berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 05:13:53 jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 05:14:11 Riastradh: ping 05:14:29 *jcowan* unvanishes while he's at it. 05:15:47 Okay, the rest of yez: what do you think about names like foo/bar in Scheme? Good style? Bad style? What do they usually mean? 05:15:50 I was wondering where that "ping" came from 05:16:02 jcowan: you mean names that contain a slash? 05:16:21 I don't think they're bad style, but I can't think of a simple rule that tells what they mean, either 05:16:37 I suspect I've never made a name like that 05:16:40 I do mean names with a slash 05:16:50 I haven't either, but I see that some people have 05:17:30 Also, if you were converting code from a Lisp-2 to Scheme, and the same name was actually used as both a function and a variable, 05:17:36 which one would you rename, and how? 05:18:18 ugh 05:18:19 no idea. 05:18:30 glad to help. 05:19:17 when I meet a conflict like that in Other Languages, I usually give the procedure precedence as it is more widely useful / longer lived 05:19:33 when I meet a conflict like that on the road, I kill him. 05:19:45 But in (former) Soviet Union, he kill you! 05:24:20 I was thinking of appending * to the variable, but that would be easily confused with the *...* style of dynamic variables. 05:26:59 -!- tjafk2 [n=timj@e176223198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:31:44 Which convention you adopt, I suspect, matters less than your consistency in applying it 05:39:46 *elf* sighs. 05:42:41 there thre 05:44:39 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 05:47:23 It's not so much me applying it personally, as me applying it during automated conversion 05:52:37 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 05:53:46 Ah, found it: 05:53:49 X/Y 05:53:50 is usually a constant named Y of a set of such constants each related by some common theme of X (e.g., TAG/FIXNUM, TAG/IMMEDIATE, TAG/HEADER, TAG/POINTER) or an abbreviation of with (e.g. call-with-current-continuation). 05:54:25 In my case it'll be either variables or constants. 05:54:43 or indeed functions (which are constants, technically) 05:54:44 -!- saccade [n=saccade@c-76-118-180-157.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:55:31 mrmbl 05:56:46 I feel quite encouraged 05:57:01 I have now figured out how to map all things Java into Blesity 05:59:06 whois jcowan 05:59:09 ? 05:59:12 heh 05:59:29 I was trying to find your docs on Blesity without revealing my ignorance of them 05:59:32 There goes that plan 06:00:26 there are none, only in my head yet 06:01:28 ah, then I'll ask: wotzit? 06:01:43 Oh. My ISLisp compiler-into-Java. 06:01:59 I'm still in the plotting^Wplanning^Wscheming stage. 06:02:19 I find I can't write any of the code until I know how it's all going to work, at least to a pretty fair degree. 06:02:46 And I've been stuck on the Java mapping issue among others. 06:02:59 I'm also stuck much more badly on generic functions and goddam (call-next-function) 06:03:40 evabuddy wants to target the JVM these days. 06:03:49 Or are you actually generating Java? 06:03:53 Yes. 06:04:03 ok, that's less common 06:04:27 A lot easier to debug, and actually you don't want to generate weird bytecodes nshit, because the JIT may not work too well on them. 06:04:36 It optimizes dumb Java code best. 06:05:19 huh 06:05:32 *offby1* <-- mostly ignorant about compilers 06:05:40 Sure. That's what people debug and optimize their JITs on, because that's what most of the code *is*. 06:06:28 The trouble with (c-n-m) is that it not only has know what the next method is, it has to encapsulate *all* the successor methods that it might have. 06:06:47 And while that list is fixed, its order is not. 06:07:15 If we have class A and B and a class AB that inherits from A and B, and a class BA that inherits from B and A, 06:07:32 and methods on all four (wlg we can just think about single-argument methods here) 06:08:00 then whether A follows B or vice versa depends on whether the actual object is an A, a B, an AB, or a BA; 06:08:13 in some cases A is the next method of B, in some cases B is the next method of A. 06:08:16 Which is fugly. 06:08:40 hope you're not expecting me to follow -- I'm drifting off to bed, and don't know what call-next-function _is_ 06:09:11 It's a thing you can call from a method to invoke the next "higher" (more general) method. 06:09:51 Sounds like a CLOS-ism 06:10:09 So it is. 06:10:15 ISLisp is a static subset of CLOS 06:10:27 (no change-class, no changes *to* classes) 06:11:37 But it has to encapsulate inside itself not only the next method, but the next one after that, etc. etc. 06:12:44 And unfortunately *that* is not static. 06:15:08 -!- aldig [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:19:27 Sucks to be me. 06:19:28 -!- jcowan [n=jcowan@cpe-74-68-154-18.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #scheme 06:22:55 The slash is a separator stronger than the hyphen. That's all. 06:27:23 hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 06:38:24 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:42:52 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 06:46:08 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:49:02 how does slash compare with colon? 06:49:18 how? 06:49:25 i dont know, im asking. 06:49:39 in terms of strength of separators. 06:49:44 looked like you were setting up a joke 06:49:47 oh I see 06:50:58 grettke: I'd have thought so, too 06:53:11 offby1: A semicolon, an octothorpe, and a dashdash walk into bar... 06:54:07 ... 06:54:26 is he being elliptical, or hyperbolic? 06:55:19 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 06:55:49 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 06:56:18 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the 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[n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 16:47:22 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Connexion switch"] 16:48:20 eli: Should this code work in PLT4.1.4.3-svn13feb2009? http://paste.lisp.org/display/76323 16:51:03 rudybot: init http://paste.lisp.org/display/76323 16:51:04 *offby1: error: program:4:71: read: expected `x'or `(' after `#s' 16:51:25 rudybot: init http://paste.lisp.org/display/76323/raw 16:51:26 *offby1: error: program:4:14: import: cannot find suitable installed library at: (srfi :1) in: (import (rnrs base) (only (srfi :1) split-at take drop)) 16:52:42 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 16:52:59 zarquon [n=user@lisp.xs4all.nl] has joined #scheme 16:53:22 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 16:53:46 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 16:54:26 -!- xx283 [n=xx@p4FD3C74A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #scheme 16:54:30 -!- zarquon [n=user@lisp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:54:51 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-166-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 16:54:52 grettke: See reply on the list. (No time for chatting.) 16:55:08 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-166-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 16:55:32 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:55:37 offby1: That won't work, you need the raw text -- http://paste.lisp.org/display/76323/raw 16:55:42 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 16:55:52 offby1: And I suspect that r6rs means that it won't work even then, 16:55:58 s/,/./ 16:56:00 -!- el_diego [n=fredrik@80.80.170.164] has quit [] 17:01:24 -!- barney [n=bernhard@p549A0E8C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:03:33 -!- attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:07:31 already there 17:08:22 hey offby1 17:10:53 lum de lo 17:17:05 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:28:00 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 17:30:02 minion: chant 17:30:02 MORE ABOUT INSTRUCTION 17:32:28 -!- exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.162.116] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:39:22 rudybot: chant 17:39:23 minion: chant 17:39:23 MORE ABOUT INSTRUCTION 17:39:37 rudybot: later tell rudybot to bounce a message around from one bot to another. 17:39:38 minion: memo for rudybot: offby1 told me to tell you: to bounce a message around from one bot to another. 17:39:38 Remembered. I'll tell rudybot when he/she/it next speaks. 17:39:38 rudybot, memo from rudybot: offby1 told me to tell you: to bounce a message around from one bot to another. 17:39:39 minion: memo from rudybot: offby1 told me to tell you: to bounce a message around from one bot to another. 17:39:39 another: i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 17:40:17 another bot or two and we'll have a perpetual motion machine. Or we'll crash the intertubes. 17:48:57 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-166-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:02:02 mib_1b4gii [i=40ffb42b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f0277abf85d80e64] has joined #scheme 18:05:08 mib_wtf7g2 [i=40ffb42b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e629f0f5e62a0d78] has joined #scheme 18:05:45 -!- mib_1b4gii [i=40ffb42b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f0277abf85d80e64] has quit [Client Quit] 18:07:41 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 18:09:46 -!- mib_wtf7g2 [i=40ffb42b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-e629f0f5e62a0d78] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:21 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Client Quit] 18:11:31 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 18:12:33 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 18:13:15 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:14:32 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:14:34 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 18:15:32 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 18:20:40 -!- pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit ["leaving"] 18:21:26 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 18:21:43 Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #scheme 18:22:18 Bzoto [n=pradella@host176-100-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #scheme 18:23:16 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-242-10.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 18:23:52 -!- Bzoto [n=pradella@host176-100-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #scheme 18:26:10 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 18:26:49 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 18:27:30 *arcfide* sighs. 18:29:39 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:31:51 from #emacs: last time i tried easypg it had one major bug: it couldnt handle files with umlauts in their names ... *sigh* 18:32:56 pchrist [n=spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #scheme 18:37:22 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-222-235-32.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:37:53 jah_ [n=jah@183.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #scheme 18:38:08 -!- jah_ is now known as jah 18:40:36 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-76-29-188-22.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:41:36 puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:41:44 ventonegro [n=alex@189.100.197.62] has joined #scheme 18:44:45 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 18:46:57 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:47:53 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 18:48:02 -!- Paraselene_ [n=Not@79-67-204-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:49:39 minion: memo for eli: minion's messages are ... ugh 18:49:40 Remembered. I'll tell eli when he/she/it next speaks. 18:49:40 eli, memo from eli: minion's messages are ... ugh 18:51:00 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 18:58:34 iion_tichy1 [n=Bjoern@g225032158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:05:17 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 19:08:16 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:11:03 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:11:57 jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has joined #scheme 19:14:13 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179069135.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:18:06 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 19:19:53 berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 19:19:57 hey 19:22:22 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 19:22:23 -!- huangjs [n=user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:23:49 -!- jah [n=jah@183.56.76-86.rev.gaoland.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 19:23:57 lisppaste, url 19:23:57 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 19:29:18 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 19:30:03 "In some discussion that passes on freenode scheme" -- I think you meant "In some of what passes for discussion on freenode scheme" 19:30:40 (berat: I am teasing this channel, not your English) 19:31:29 :D 19:32:14 i just try to learn new things for my programming skills :XD 19:35:52 berat pasted "bound variable" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76334 19:36:08 can someone check my url :D 19:37:39 dnabre [n=dnabre@c-68-35-121-106.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 19:42:39 sepult_ [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-150-127.netcologne.de] has joined #scheme 19:47:12 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 19:48:40 -!- tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:48:55 berat: I will be blunt (for which I apologize), and I will only say this once: you are in over your head. Repeatedly, you paste large blobs of code to this channel with requests to find the bug therein. **We are not going to debug your code for you.** You must learn to write simpler programs, verify that those programs are correct, then extend those programs while maintaining their correctness. 19:49:40 I believe that you should stop trying to work through PLAI (which I gather you are using), and proceed through a more basic text until you have a better grasp of the fundamentals of Scheme. 19:51:19 I understand you wanting to use PLAI. It is natural to want to make progress as quickly as possible. But you will make faster progress if you strengthen your basic skills before continuing your current path. 19:51:53 -!- kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has left #scheme 19:53:59 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-145-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:55:07 sorrry Daemmerung I supposed you help ppl to fix his/her mistake.Even if it is simple.I am so sorry for that 19:56:01 ("His/her" -- you are an optimist, aren't you?) 19:58:55 alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has joined #scheme 19:58:56 Yes i guess.i thought you gathered in that channel.And you try to help ppl who try to make smt.Thats my opinion actually.. In the past,I am sure you are like meçAnd In the future may be I will be like you.Just i try to improve myself. 19:59:12 you = all ppl in #scheme 19:59:22 Ultimately, YOU have to do the work. We will advise and guide where possible. But we are not going to take a big blob of code, about which the only thing we know is that "This function is work good for some cases you see in my test cases.And and it is not work for some cases.", and try to fix it for you. 19:59:59 pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #scheme 20:00:02 berat, what is "smt"? 20:00:08 berat, and 'ppl' 20:00:25 SMT = symmetric multiple threads 20:00:31 PPL = portable programming language 20:00:57 berat - the key is to ask good questions. "Why doesn't this work?" is a very bad one: it requires us to discover what you want, what happens, etc. We must behave like archeologists studying dead civilizations, as if you are not an alive person in the channel with us. 20:01:05 I am amazed, Cheshire, that you aren't familiar with those exceedingly common TLAs. 20:01:19 ppl = people smt=someting 20:01:28 :D 20:01:39 berat you should type the full words in 20:01:46 okey sorry 20:02:01 brb afk nigysob 20:02:09 WW 20:02:15 brb is be right back right 20:02:22 afk is away from keyboard 20:02:39 i dont know nigysob 20:03:12 kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 20:03:14 lol 20:03:43 hahahaha 20:03:48 berat, but I think you did not understand my properly earlier 20:03:57 not in google you son of a bitch 20:04:17 berat, My suggestion is that a variable _name_ is not something that is bound or free but a specific occurence of a variable _inside a term_ 20:04:25 berat, do you know what the difference I am pointing out is ? 20:04:28 [very common] 20:04:53 berat, remember the example ((lambda (x) x) x), to say x is bound, or x is free.. it depends _which_ x you talk about 20:05:35 here is a diagram: 20:05:35 .--- free 20:05:36 ((lambda (x) x) x) 20:05:36 ^--- bound 20:05:51 ayrnieu: ("Not in Google" - oh! I like that!) 20:06:05 berat, so if I give you term: ((lambda (x) x) x) and ask: is x bound? or I ask: is x free? what will you tell me? 20:07:05 -!- jgracin [n=jgracin@82.193.210.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:07:19 -!- dnabre [n=dnabre@c-68-35-121-106.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:08:50 Cheshire, 20:09:03 (lambda x x) -> x is bound 20:09:10 berat, (lambda (x) x) 20:09:15 berat, (lambda x x) is a syntax error 20:09:19 sorry 20:09:21 -!- jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has quit ["brb"] 20:09:22 x is bound 20:09:52 http://paste.lisp.org/display/76336 i promise the last time i ask this.I never ask again for that question. 20:09:54 -!- lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net."] 20:09:55 -!- specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 20:09:55 -!- minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has quit ["Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc"] 20:10:04 wingo-tp [n=wingo@216.Red-83-44-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:17 berat, you should think about what I said and try to think of an answer to what I asked you 20:10:30 Cheshire: nope, (lambda x x) is correct 20:10:33 Cheshire, 20:10:40 what is inside an term 20:11:12 (lambda(x) x) x is bound variable because x is bounded by lambda 20:11:21 jso [n=user@151.159.200.8] has joined #scheme 20:11:27 but in that case (lambda(x) y) y is free variable 20:11:38 ventonegro: (This is lambda-calculus, not Scheme.) 20:12:40 oh, I've got to go to #scheme then :) 20:12:51 actually lambda sentence write as (( x y) ( z x)))) 20:13:06 berat: You should take our advice. 20:13:19 minion: advice for berat 20:13:26 okey 20:13:29 i am reading 20:13:41 Somebody killed minion! We are all doomed! 20:13:47 rudybot: seen minion? 20:13:47 Daemmerung: No sign of minion? 20:13:59 Minion! 20:14:10 *Daemmerung* wails and gnashes his teeth 20:14:24 *arcfide* locks and loads. 20:14:30 *Daemmerung* rends his garment 20:14:33 arcfide, it is last time i pasted url.Can you check and advice me one last time :D 20:14:36 Nobody kills our bots and gets away with it! 20:15:01 who killed the minion :D 20:15:16 berat: My advice: take the advice of the rest, and start smaller, ask specific, good questions, and start understanding what you are doing, instead of trying to start beyond what you understand. 20:16:10 lisppaste [n=lisppast@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:16:23 I may have missed it, but as yet you haven't told me anywhere near enough information to convince me that you even know what your code is doing. 20:16:45 i just want to to find my mistake in program but i cannot find my mistake. 20:17:00 hmm okey anyway 20:17:03 i am done :D 20:17:21 berat 20:17:29 berat, so if I give you term: ((lambda (x) x) x) and ask: is x bound? or I ask: is x free? what will you tell me? 20:17:44 x is bound 20:17:50 no 20:17:53 right ? 20:17:57 minion [n=minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:18:04 specbot [n=specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #scheme 20:18:07 ((lambda (x) x) x) 20:18:07 ^-- x is free 20:18:28 hmm 20:18:34 berat, if you told me x was free, I'd say no and point to the bound one 20:18:49 berat, The moral is: A variable name isn't enough to describe the _occurence_ of a variable 20:19:00 berat, It's not a variable that is bound or free, but the occurence of one 20:20:49 Name freshener! 20:22:28 Cheshire, 20:22:38 actually my form is little different 20:23:13 ( x ( y (y x))) it is valid lambda sentence 20:25:44 ((L x x) x) is also valid. 20:26:08 i guess 20:26:16 yes 20:26:20 it is valid 20:26:39 i need to find my simple mistake this night but i cannot find it :( 20:27:04 Unless this homework is due this night, I am sure you're not that pressed for time. 20:27:33 berat, You are too focused on solveing this 'mistake' that you don't see the real problem 20:28:10 may be 20:29:17 berat, btw what are you implementing? 20:29:25 arcfide, yes it is homework yes you may not be answer homework`s question.But it is obstacle that can prevent my graduation i need to find how to do thjat where is my mistake on my function. 20:29:29 berat, I mean what program are you writing 20:29:42 Cheshire, i try to implement lambda 20:29:53 but you are doing it in the worst way possible 20:30:30 i am sure it is i am newbie if i can become like yall.I am writing lots of advanced thins 20:30:38 berat: Stop trying to fight our suggestions. You want to succeed at this? Then start listening and trying to learn. 20:30:55 okey arcfide 20:31:09 berat, it's not because you are beginner though, everyone uses the same technique that you are -- for example your teacher probably thinks this is a godo way 20:33:08 arcfide, i apply your suggstion sorry for bothering.Just i need to find mistake.But i guess it is not possble here.And i dont have any idea how to do that.Anyway 20:33:33 berat, just fixing bugs and finding mistakes is pointles 20:34:03 berat: If you continue thinking that you need to find the mistake, yet don't listen to use when we tell you what your mistake is, then you are not taking my advice, or anyone else's here. 20:34:10 s/use/us/ 20:35:31 okey i take advice i give up to talk like that. 20:36:14 tltstc [n=tltstc@cpe-76-90-92-154.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 20:37:27 btw your assignment seems to be: copy the code out of the PLAI book 20:43:05 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:01:34 -!- ventonegro [n=alex@189.100.197.62] has quit [] 21:02:36 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 21:05:25 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:05 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:19:58 kniu [n=kniu@DA-YU.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 21:20:13 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:29:56 saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 21:31:49 -!- saccade_ [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:34:14 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:35:19 borism [n=boris@195-50-201-163-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 21:39:06 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:41:58 -!- borism__ [n=boris@195-50-207-113-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:42:17 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:42:23 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:45:00 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:46:23 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:49:32 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 21:50:46 -!- raikov [n=igr@81.153.145.122.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:57:39 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 22:01:05 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:02:52 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 22:03:22 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 22:04:20 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 22:04:46 -!- AtnNn [n=welcome@modemcable087.62-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit ["!"] 22:05:01 masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-170-23.nss.udel.edu] has joined #scheme 22:06:45 I've been asked to write a recursive process version of nth, but I can't for the life of me figure out how I would do such a thing. Only implementation I can think of is an iterative process. Anyone got a hint on how I might be able to do this? 22:07:38 masquerade: Suppose you have fourth ready, and you want to write fifth. 22:07:41 recursion on the number 'n' as well as the list 22:07:42 How would you do it? 22:08:16 (define (fifth n) (... blah blah blah ... (fourth n ...))) 22:09:21 offby1: I'd use l there.. 22:09:26 what lol 22:09:26 no 22:10:20 offby1, I think you misunderstand the question, I want a function (nth 5 (list 1 5 4 3 2)) that returns 2 22:11:05 masquerade: 22:11:09 (DEFINE (NTH N LIST) 22:11:20 ;; Recursion on N as well as LIST 22:11:23 ) 22:11:44 I can do it as (define (nth n alist) (if (= n 1) (nth (- n 1) (cdr alist)))) 22:12:08 masquerade, you're getting closer 22:12:36 isn't there a "recipe" that tells you how to solve problems just like this? 22:12:58 yes, it's called the little schemer 22:13:56 you did the case but not the case 22:14:43 oops, typo 22:14:49 there should be a (car alist) 22:18:18 (define (nth n alist) (if (= n 1) (car alist) (nth (- n 1) (cdr alist)))) 22:18:29 that's a tail-recursive call, so its an iterative process 22:19:28 I still don't see how to change it to a recursive process 22:22:58 ummm 22:23:02 that's recursive 22:23:18 yuo have succeeded 22:23:28 -!- alaricsp [n=alaricsp@88-202-213-29.rdns.as8401.net] has quit [] 22:23:39 -!- jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:50 okay, if that's recursive, then I need help writing an iterative version 22:24:01 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:24:14 (but tbh, that appears to be iterative to me) 22:26:32 it's both :) 22:26:40 masquerade: it's both recursive and iterative. They're not exclusive concepts. 22:26:55 rudybot: eval (define (masq-nth n alist) (if (= n 1) (car alist) (masq-nth (- n 1) (cdr alist)))) 22:26:57 *offby1: error: program:4:14: import: cannot find suitable installed library at: (srfi :1) in: (import (rnrs base) (only (srfi :1) split-at take drop)) 22:27:02 rudybot: init scheme 22:27:05 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 22:27:07 rudybot: eval (define (masq-nth n alist) (if (= n 1) (car alist) (masq-nth (- n 1) (cdr alist)))) 22:27:15 rudybot: eval (masq-nth 1 ' ()) 22:27:16 *offby1: error: car: expects argument of type ; given () 22:27:20 rudybot: eval (masq-nth 1 ' (oops)) 22:27:20 okay, my original question clearly differentiated. one is an iterative process, and one is a recursive process. Those are disjoint concepts. 22:27:22 *offby1: ; Value: oops 22:27:33 rudybot: eval (masq-nth 4 '(one too fwee fower)) 22:27:33 *offby1: ; Value: fower 22:27:36 ship it! 22:27:52 I asked for help writing a version that is a recursive process. The one I stated is an iterative process. 22:27:57 I got lazy and stopped writing process. 22:28:16 masquerade: presumably when you say "recursive process", you mean one whose maximum stack size is proportional to the number of items i the list. 22:28:17 They're not disjoint concepts. Tail recursive processes are both iterative and recursive. 22:29:02 offby1: right 22:29:36 not sure why you'd _want_ to, but ... 22:29:50 I don't know why I'd want to either, but alas, I can't argue the assignment. 22:29:51 rudybot: eval (define (masq-nth n alist) (if (= n 1) (car alist) (reverse (reverse (masq-nth (- n 1) (cdr alist)))))) 22:29:53 there ya go 22:29:55 hmm 22:30:53 offby1: clever, I like it. Not what I had in mind, but that does meet the specifications 22:31:25 -!- iion_tichy1 [n=Bjoern@g225032158.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:31:48 rudybot: eval (define (masq-nth n alist) (if (= n 1) (car alist) (let ((wasted-stack (masq-nth (- n 1) (cdr alist)))) wasted-stack))) 22:34:11 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-186-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:34:34 masquerade: I'm surprised I wasn't thrown out of school for being a smartass 22:34:54 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:35:08 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 22:35:18 offby1: I'm surprised of the same, which is why I have no problem actually turning something along those lines in as a solution 22:35:58 I'm not sure my idea would really load up the stack the way I was thinking, but I'm pretty sure it will. 22:36:30 Non-tail-recursive happens when I do something with the value of the recursive call, even if what I do is bind it locally and just return it. 22:37:00 wait I'm not sure and I'm pretty sure LOGIC FAILURE 22:37:39 masquerade: it's recursive and iterative 22:37:43 at the same time 22:38:35 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 22:38:46 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:38:52 She's my sister _and_ my daughter! 22:39:06 Understand? Or is it too tough for you? 22:39:11 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 22:42:19 yes offby1. That's a little hard for me to get my head around. 22:42:32 -!- puchacz [n=puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:43:15 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:26 -!- masquerade [n=robert@wifi-roaming-170-23.nss.udel.edu] has quit [] 22:43:27 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071315/ 22:43:29 jeremiah [n=jeremiah@31.Red-213-98-123.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 22:43:33 ^^ all-time favorite movie evar ^^ 22:43:36 Your father marries your wife, there you go. Her children are your legal siblings, but also (hopefully) your legal children. 22:44:54 yeah, well. 22:45:00 guess you haven't seen the movie. 22:45:29 -!- wingo-tp [n=wingo@216.Red-83-44-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:45:50 nope, sorry. 22:48:46 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #scheme 22:49:04 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 22:49:38 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [] 22:51:55 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:54:58 morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has joined #scheme 22:55:10 -!- hiyuh [n=hiyuh@KD125054017176.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit ["|_ e /\ \/ i |/| G"] 22:59:15 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:59:42 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 23:00:40 karlw [n=user@adsl-207-214-83-38.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:02:05 ales [n=ales@p57B760B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 23:02:11 hi 23:02:31 may i ask a very stupid question? ;) 23:02:39 ales: hello, sailor 23:02:57 ales: that's what we're here for. 23:03:07 My specialty is stating the obvious. 23:03:08 after that question? Go ahead. 23:03:16 great :) so, i'm currently getting started with scheme 23:03:22 noooooo 23:03:26 I mean, good. 23:03:28 oh, i am ;) 23:03:39 so - someting like (+ 2 3 4 5) work fine, right? 23:03:48 but how do i apply this pattern to a list? 23:04:15 is this possible? or do i have to implement something like first elemtn + rest of the list and do it the recursive way? 23:04:19 JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:04:25 what is 'this pattern'? What do you mean by apply? What list are you talking about? 23:04:36 what ayrnieu said :-| 23:04:39 oh, sry 23:04:49 -!- JohnnyL [i=JohnnyL@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 23:04:51 you want to append a bunch of lists together and get one big list? 23:05:12 no, i want to sum up the content of a list 23:05:21 and (+ list) does not work ;) 23:05:21 rudybot: eval (append '(1 2 3) '(a b c) '("bow wow" "yippe-i" "yippe-a")) 23:05:21 *offby1: ; Value: (1 2 3 a b c "bow wow" "yippe-i" "yippe-a") 23:05:22 (apply + the-list) 23:05:30 ales: do you mean (apply + '(1 2 3)) 23:05:33 ah, yes 23:05:42 you guys are great ;) 23:05:45 rudybot: eval (apply + (list 2 3 4 5)) 23:05:45 *offby1: ; Value: 14 23:06:25 thank you very much :) 23:10:31 -!- karlw [n=user@adsl-207-214-83-38.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:13:03 -!- choas [n=lars@p5B0DDE25.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["leaving"] 23:13:10 interesting notion (+ list)... 23:13:26 rudybot: eval (define (combine a b) (lambda rest (apply a (apply b rest)))) 23:13:27 erhem, yes.. as i said - i am VERY new to scheme ;) 23:13:43 rudybot: eval (define plus-list (combine + list)) 23:13:56 rudybot: eval (plus-list 1 2 3 4 5) 23:13:57 synx: ; Value: 15 23:14:52 rudybot: eval ((combine + list) 1 2 3 4 5 6) 23:14:52 synx: ; Value: 21 23:15:18 I'm just playing sorry. ^.^; 23:15:33 rudybot: ((compose + list) 1 2 3 4 5 6) 23:15:34 *offby1: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 23:15:37 rudybot: eval ((compose + list) 1 2 3 4 5 6) 23:15:37 *offby1: error: +: expects argument of type ; given (1 2 3 4 5 6) 23:17:20 karlw [n=user@adsl-207-214-83-38.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 23:17:40 -!- karlw [n=user@adsl-207-214-83-38.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has left #scheme 23:18:53 rudybot, ((compose + list) '(1 2 3 4 5 6)) 23:18:53 berat: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 23:19:00 honk 23:19:18 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 23:19:18 rudybot, eval ((compose + list) '(1 2 3 4 5 6)) 23:19:19 berat: your sandbox is ready 23:19:19 berat: error: +: expects argument of type ; given ((1 2 3 4 5 6)) 23:19:36 rudybot, eval ((compose + list) 1) 23:19:36 berat: error: +: expects argument of type ; given (1) 23:20:55 I didn't use compose because it is different. 23:21:15 I'm such a bad influence. 23:22:20 rudybot: eval ((compose list +) 1 2 3) 23:22:20 synx: ; Value: (6) 23:23:43 Some people look at a solution and say "This is too easy. I should use combinators." Now they have uninteresting problems. 23:23:57 Let's use regexes. 23:24:14 rudybot: eval ((compose + values) 1 2 3 4 5 6) 23:24:15 synx: ; Value: 21 23:25:12 A regex is at least a clearly delimited sublanguage. 23:25:25 gonna go to bed now, have a nice day :) thanks again 23:25:36 for (compose a b c) the return value for c must meet the requirements for b's arguments, and b for a. 23:26:15 you too ales! 23:27:58 -!- ales [n=ales@p57B760B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["http://irc2go.com/"] 23:32:08 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 23:34:16 Fare [n=Fare@c-98-216-111-110.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:38:01 -!- morphir [n=morphir@217.168.81.9] has quit [] 23:41:09 -!- hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0571CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:47:18 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:47:58 brgl83 [n=chatzill@c-24-61-14-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:47:59 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:48:33 i hate teh schemes 23:49:13 ada2358 [n=ada2358@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 23:49:18 -!- brgl83 [n=chatzill@c-24-61-14-53.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]"] 23:53:13 -!- error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:54:42 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 23:57:23 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-54.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 23:57:24 they hate you, too 23:57:28 -!- ada2358 [n=ada2358@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has quit ["leaving"] 23:59:22 ada2358 [n=ada2358@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme