00:23:52 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Out of Memory: Killed process [9823] xchat."] 00:36:37 -!- pfo [n=pfo@chello084114049188.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 00:37:24 deep [n=deep@li61-146.members.linode.com] has joined #scheme 00:44:37 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has joined #scheme 00:46:22 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 00:57:28 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179066093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 01:00:20 -!- sepult [n=buggarag@xdsl-87-78-137-206.netcologne.de] has quit ["leaving"] 01:07:17 -!- athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has quit ["leaving"] 01:08:19 orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF5EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 01:10:07 -!- masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has left #scheme 01:21:34 -!- jonrafkind [n=jon@crystalis.cs.utah.edu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 01:24:35 -!- orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFEE28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)] 01:26:36 -!- saccade [n=saccade_@COMBINATOR.MIT.EDU] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:38:37 Don't let the Common Lispers monopolize "Lisp": http://ilc2009.scheming.org/forum/1 01:39:12 -!- cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:42:49 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179066093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:45:36 -!- Mr-Cat [n=Miranda@bahirkin1507.static.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:53:19 jonrafkind [n=jon@c-98-202-86-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 02:00:10 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 02:01:49 -!- stepnem_ is now known as stepnem 02:14:15 Mr_Awesome [n=eric@pool-98-115-34-190.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 02:14:46 -!- orgy_ [n=ratm_@pD9FFF5EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:18:03 -!- lore17 [n=lore@c-98-232-225-102.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:27:54 cracki [n=cracki@sglty.kawo2.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #scheme 02:30:18 -!- melgray [n=melgray@70.99.250.82] has quit [] 02:34:13 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 02:36:42 annodomini_ [n=lambda@129.170.131.176] has joined #scheme 02:36:53 -!- patchwork [n=user@dsl093-174-240.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #scheme 02:40:07 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 02:46:04 HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #scheme 02:55:19 levi` [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #scheme 02:55:36 -!- HG` [n=wells@222-153-100-184.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:56:32 -!- pbusser2 [n=peter@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:56:32 -!- ilitirit [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:56:32 -!- levi [n=user@levi.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:56:32 -!- wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [verne.freenode.net irc.freenode.net] 02:58:50 benny` [n=benny@i577A0D76.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 02:58:59 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:59:19 wasabi___ [n=wasabi@ntoska149014.oska.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 03:00:18 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 03:09:58 ilitirit [n=john@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #scheme 03:12:07 brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 03:14:51 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0FCE.versanet.de] has quit [No route to host] 03:14:59 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 03:16:32 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #scheme 03:17:41 -!- benny` is now known as benny 03:18:24 brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 03:20:06 la la la 03:20:18 si si si, do do do 03:28:37 -!- hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@gateway.publicvpn.net] has quit [] 03:28:47 oom pah 03:37:34 haole [n=ivan@200-232-198-68.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #scheme 03:38:16 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:38:29 hello there... i'm trying to parse some s-expressions using lexer, but the documentation in pltscheme's site is more like a reference and i'm having troubles understanding it... can anybody point me to some material on this, or to some example? google ain't helping either :) 03:39:27 underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has joined #scheme 03:40:06 You don't parse with a lexer. 03:40:35 Be concrete. What are you trying to do? 03:41:54 haole: you parse with a parser, and why don't you just read some s-expressions? 03:42:50 i'm trying to automatically put some s-expressions into local variables, like (foo 10) (bar 30) into variables with those names 03:42:55 -!- offby1` is now known as offby1 03:43:19 i was thinking that i could use the lexer to do the matching of those names with the ones that i expect them to be 03:43:32 you could call "read" and "eval" ... 03:43:35 (eq? 'foo 'foo) 03:43:40 i expressed myself badly... the parsing was done with read 03:43:42 *Daemmerung* thwacks offby1 03:43:50 I'm just sayin' 03:43:57 *offby1* rubs his cheek 03:44:01 Bad offby1. No `eval'. 03:44:06 Bad! Bad! 03:44:14 *offby1* pouts 03:44:32 Funny, that never works on my cat. 03:44:38 haole: or you could just use the symbols as keys in a hash table, and call "hash-set" on 'em 03:44:55 *offby1* sharpens his claws on Daemmerung's ottoman 03:45:14 offby1: looks promising... i'm very noob with scheme and i'm reading a lot... jumping to the hash section right away! :) 03:45:14 *Daemmerung* looks for the water sprayer 03:46:11 lexer is probally not what you want. 03:46:18 rudybot_: eval (define data '((foo 10) (bar 30))) 03:46:19 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 03:46:24 rudybot_: eval (define variables (make-hash)) 03:46:32 rudybot_: eval (for ([p data]) (hash-set! variables (first p) (second p))) 03:46:35 rudybot_: eval variables 03:46:36 *offby1: ; Value: #hash((bar . 30) (foo . 10)) 03:46:43 rudybot_: nick rudybot 03:46:43 -!- rudybot_ is now known as rudybot 03:47:13 *offby1* looks at Daemmerung to see if he has any treats 03:47:39 haole: see chapter 12 of the Guide 03:48:04 ok! doing that right now 03:48:30 *offby1* pretends to lose interest 03:49:07 *Daemmerung* realizes that he'd better feed his boys before starting the evening Bruce Lee marathon 03:49:27 Or else Fists of Fury may be preempted by Claws of Fury. 03:49:53 *offby1* wanders over to the neighbor's house to see what's for dinner 03:52:45 meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-236-79-214.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 04:04:42 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 04:08:45 rudybot: eval (define make-for-offby1 (compose hash-copy make-immutable-hash)) 04:08:45 eli: your scheme sandbox is ready 04:08:59 rudybot: eval (make-for-offby1 '((foo . 10) (bar . 30))) 04:09:00 eli: ; Value: #hash((bar . 30) (foo . 10)) 04:09:13 rudybot: give offby1 (make-for-offby1 '((foo . 10) (bar . 30))) 04:09:13 offby1: eli has given you a value, say "rudybot: eval (GRAB)" to get it (case sensitive) 04:09:48 showoff 04:10:16 clever, I gotta admit 04:10:35 But still a showoff... 04:12:12 i'm having a different problem here... i read my data through a string-port... it is an huge s-expression... but i cannot compare it with functions that takes arguments in the form of bytestring or string... so, what is the type of the data that i've got in hands? if i ask it to be evaluated, i get the s-expression on my screen 04:13:50 -!- hark_ is now known as hark 04:14:45 WebDestroya [n=webdestr@ip68-109-87-166.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 04:20:55 *elf* sighs. 04:20:56 and the last doubt of the night! :D when sending udp data, it only works when i use "udp-send-to" function... if i connect the socket with "udp-connect!" and the just use "udp-send", the clients disconnects from the server... any clues in these one? 04:21:11 s/the/then 04:25:41 arcfide, you around? 04:25:41 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:32:50 -!- ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:34:29 ayrnieu [n=julian@c-76-30-82-6.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 04:36:40 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 04:42:20 -!- ttmrichter [n=ttmricht@119.96.9.156] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:43:24 -!- metasyntax [n=taylor@pool-71-127-85-87.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [""Nichts mehr.""] 04:44:49 hey offby1 04:47:31 -!- Nshag [n=shagoune@Mix-Orleans-106-3-178.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 04:55:40 -!- brweber2 [n=brweber2@ip68-100-65-167.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [] 05:01:36 pbusser2 [n=peter@ip138-238-174-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #scheme 05:08:44 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 05:10:12 la la la 05:10:21 tjafk2 [n=timj@e176223198.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 05:13:55 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has quit ["If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!"] 05:18:17 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has joined #scheme 05:27:10 -!- tjafk1 [n=timj@e176202148.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:29:47 -!- tessier [n=treed@68.15.4.26] has left #scheme 05:36:58 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:39:50 -!- meanburrito920_ [n=John@adsl-76-236-79-214.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["has been attacked by a grue"] 05:54:12 -!- Fare [n=Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:13:28 -!- WebDestroya [n=webdestr@ip68-109-87-166.oc.oc.cox.net] has left #scheme 06:15:38 -!- kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has quit [Connection timed out] 06:22:39 -!- bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@209-161-230-178.dsl.look.ca] has quit [] 06:37:55 -!- yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@ludios.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 06:39:11 jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-186-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #scheme 06:39:29 -!- haole [n=ivan@200-232-198-68.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 06:45:35 yosafbridge [n=yosafbri@ludios.net] has joined #scheme 06:45:55 -!- kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:49:02 jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #scheme 06:51:14 -!- jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has left #scheme 06:51:40 jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #scheme 06:52:35 -!- jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 06:52:43 jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has joined #scheme 06:53:28 -!- jdijk [i=jdijk@ftth-212-84-159-210.solcon.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 06:55:09 hadronzoo [n=hadronzo@ppp-70-251-242-10.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 06:55:14 hark_ [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has joined #scheme 06:56:03 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:06:48 -!- dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:11:18 *eli* yawns 07:15:05 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 07:16:15 -!- hark_ is now known as hark 07:16:43 *elf* checks eli's teeth. 07:19:06 *eli* checks elf's teeth right back 07:19:32 *elf* wasnt yawning. 07:19:52 Exactly. 07:20:10 my teeth are visible when im not yawning? 07:20:15 damn. 07:22:00 You can't hide your teeth from my xray vision. 07:22:08 *eli* has many powers 07:22:16 *elf* fears being irradiated. 07:24:39 elf 07:24:46 yes? 07:24:50 you've not heart, xD 07:24:55 huh? 07:26:56 i see you bones only and without heart, xD 07:27:03 are you live? 07:27:13 *elf* is fairly sure he's alive, but could be wrong. 07:28:10 *elf* is watching victor borge. 07:28:42 its amazing how much television has changed in 50 years. 07:29:33 elf, the NTSC TV has not changed in 50 years, and NTSC has still failures. 07:29:53 i meant in terms of the nature of what is broadcasted. 07:33:27 I love Victor Borge 07:34:20 (me too) 07:34:24 hes brilliant. 07:34:48 i have a tonne of his old shtuff. 07:35:15 Do you have this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWqFaGwNCMU 07:36:06 of course. 07:36:30 That's the only video I've seen of his 07:36:32 thats from the greatest hits dvd. im watching him on the pontiac show. 07:36:38 Ah 07:36:42 ill have to send you shtuff. :) 07:36:53 Absolutely 07:44:55 -!- dfeuer [n=dfeuer@wikimedia/Dfeuer] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:49:54 kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 07:51:25 reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 07:57:51 -!- kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:58:13 kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 08:05:49 masm [n=masm@a83-132-152-110.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #scheme 08:43:39 -!- reprore [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:44:03 -!- annodomini_ [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 08:45:13 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 09:15:11 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-323686.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:18:56 hotblack23 [n=jh@p5B0575AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 09:27:58 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 09:29:25 kniu [n=kniu@CMU-323686.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #scheme 09:30:12 Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has joined #scheme 09:39:28 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 09:43:21 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179078173.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 09:44:36 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:52:17 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:04:41 ejs [n=eugen@92.49.201.112] has joined #scheme 10:08:15 nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-067-031-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 10:08:50 hi! is there a common/standard name for: (lambda(x) (cons (car x) (cadr x))) ? 10:10:52 No. 10:10:57 Modius_ [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-65.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #scheme 10:11:41 eli: how would you call it? list->pair seems a bit ugly 10:12:09 It doesn't turn a list to a pair. 10:12:20 (A list is already a pair.) 10:12:34 thats why I said it seems a bit ugly 10:13:03 I guess that `copy-pair' is the best name that I can think for it, but it sounds silly to me. 10:13:09 first-two 10:13:16 first-two is nice 10:13:19 ayrnieu: thanks 10:13:40 or first-two-as-pair ;-) 10:14:03 Ah, you have cadr there... (My screen had it split between the "a" and the "d"...) 10:14:12 rudybot: eval (take (list 1 2 3 4) 2) 10:14:12 eli: ; Value: (1 2) 10:15:08 eli: take is not what i want 10:15:40 Why? It obviously is doing the same thing, so in a very concrete way it *is* what you want. 10:16:17 eval: (equal? '(1 . 2) '(1 2)) 10:16:35 *eli* sighs 10:16:39 I need to sleep. 10:17:21 [But FWIW, that seems even less useful.] 10:17:37 eli: (eq? (pair? (cdr (take '(1 2) 2))) (pair? (cdr (take-two '(1 2))))) => #f 10:18:06 ah - ayrnieu already wrote that 10:18:36 and ~s/take-two/first-two 10:19:35 Given your `list->pair' suggestion, and what you want it to do, my guess would be that you want a function that turns two-element lists to pairs -- ? 10:20:51 no i really only need the first two elements of a list as a pair 10:21:13 Why? 10:21:28 (I just can't imagine what this would be useful for.) 10:21:32 well some function wants a pair and not a list 10:21:40 What if the second element of the list is a list nan8? 10:22:03 that function wants two numbers as pair 10:22:08 nan8: (mythical-function '(1 (2 3))) -> (1 2 3) 10:22:39 I mean no offense, but... 10:23:11 nan8: Did you write the function that wants a pair, and the code that needs to use it? 10:23:42 eli: yes 10:24:34 nan8: So it sounds like a case of a possibly bad interface. Why not change the function so instead of a pair of two numbers it expects a list of two numbers (or more)? 10:25:44 maybe you could name the function something like degrade, or reduce-something... 10:26:29 eli: yes there might be cases where that makes sense 10:27:15 nan8: If no other code uses this function (with pairs), then I don't see any reason for not changing the interface. 10:27:38 And if there is such other code, then changing it from (cons M N) to (list M N) is not *that* expensive. 10:27:43 -!- Modius [n=Modius@adsl-68-91-194-65.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:27:57 rudybot: (define (take-2 l) (cons (car l) (cadr l))) 10:27:57 synx: eh? Try "rudybot: help". 10:28:01 rudybot: eval (define (take-2 l) (cons (car l) (cadr l))) 10:28:01 synx: your scheme sandbox is ready 10:28:27 rudybot: eval (take-2 '(1 2)) 10:28:27 synx: ; Value: (1 . 2) 10:28:30 rudybot: eval (take-2 '(1 a)) 10:28:30 synx: ; Value: (1 . a) 10:28:38 rudybot: eval (take-2 '(1 (2 3))) 10:28:38 synx: ; Value: (1 2 3) 10:29:16 [synx: that name will confuse most people] 10:29:25 synx: maybe not what one expects - but still very correct - no? 10:30:06 cons is not usually what you want if you want a pair of thingies, because when the latter thingy is a list, it collapses into the underlying language assumption. 10:30:37 synx: better suggestion? 10:31:20 It's fine for a pair of numbers... or a symbol:string pair. But I just don't like how for instance... 10:31:42 synx: one could check for: (not (pair? (cadr l)))? 10:32:32 nan8: IMO, a good rule of thumb is -- when you have hard time naming a function, then you probably have problems in the design. 10:32:42 *elf* ponders. 10:32:50 maybe: (define (take-2 l) (if (pair? (cadr l)) #f (cons (car l) (cadr l)))) 10:33:10 rudybot: eval (define dict '((1 2 3) (a b c))) 10:33:10 *elf* names his procedures after famous letters and numbers. 10:33:26 rudybot: eval (dict-ref dict 'a) 10:33:26 synx: ; Value: (b c) 10:33:52 That sort of syntax doesn't seem to make sense to me. 10:34:27 rudybot: eval (equal? '(a . (b c)) '(a b c)) 10:34:27 synx: ; Value: #t 10:40:16 in srfi-1 there seems to be: car+cdr => maybe a good name would be car+cadr (but then again it probably should return values) ;-) [i will stop that now ....] 10:41:02 `car+cdr' does something completely different. 10:41:40 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@e179078173.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:41:50 i guess car+cdr is (values (car l) (cdr l)) - no? 10:42:04 so car+cadr would be (values (car l) (cadr l)) ? 10:42:35 Yes, for most people who are used to srfi-1. 10:44:35 *elf* mutters about values. 10:44:45 *nan8* doesn't like values 10:46:23 *elf* is morally opposed to values. 10:47:00 *eli* yeah-yeahs 10:47:39 (elf : would you appreciate cost better, then ?) 10:53:19 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:55:29 -!- kniu [n=kniu@CMU-323686.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:03:15 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:07:06 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 11:14:52 hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #scheme 11:27:40 -!- MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:34:28 berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has joined #scheme 11:34:30 hey 11:34:33 someone there 11:34:38 nope. 11:34:49 no-one here but us intelligent thinking machines. 11:37:03 http://paste.org/5622 11:37:38 elf sometime none speks during hours.Thats why i ask 11:37:43 *eli* beeps tiredly 11:38:03 *elf* honks back. 11:38:16 *eli* blinks faintly 11:38:20 elf, can you check my link :XD 11:40:07 i did. its certainly a link. it specifies that the hypertext transport protocol should be used! 11:40:15 MichaelRaskin_ [n=raskin@gwh-1-177-mytn23k1.ln.rinet.ru] has joined #scheme 11:40:24 what does that mean 11:41:31 *elf* sighs. 11:41:37 mike [n=m@dslb-088-066-229-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #scheme 11:41:41 what about it? 11:42:05 -!- mike is now known as Guest53236 11:47:13 any suggestion about that 11:50:04 as i have no idea what the intended purpose is, i cant make any suggestions. 11:53:00 my intent is to find "bound variable" in lambda sentence 11:53:10 lambda sentence is in abstract form 11:53:42 for example (lambda x (lambda y ((y x) m)))) 11:53:47 m is a free variable 11:53:56 y x is bound variable 11:54:13 i wrote a function that works ok for finding free variable 11:54:28 but when i find bound variable x y i didnt find. 11:54:49 i hope you understand my intension 12:01:29 -!- nan8 [n=user@dslb-088-067-031-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #scheme 12:02:41 ada2358 [n=ada2358@pinball.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #scheme 12:11:31 hey 12:11:50 how can i use printf to print out output of mehod in screen 12:12:44 foof [n=user@st1045.nas941.k-tokyo.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:12:53 (printf ""Foo: ~a, Bar:~a~n" foo bar) ? 12:14:01 (printf "" '(find-bounds (func-def 'x (func-def 'y (func-def 'z (func-app (func-app (id 'y) (id 'z)) (id 'v))))))) 12:14:35 -!- ejs [n=eugen@92.49.201.112] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:32:54 orgy` [n=ratm_@pD9FFF5EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #scheme 12:47:51 Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has joined #scheme 12:48:04 Leonidas_ [n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas] has joined #scheme 12:48:26 -!- Leonidas_ is now known as Leonidas 12:48:49 -!- foof [n=user@st1045.nas941.k-tokyo.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:49:53 Edico [n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico] has joined #scheme 12:50:18 foof [n=user@st1045.nas941.k-tokyo.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 12:51:33 hi 12:52:02 Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-159.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 12:53:06 are there someone who can help me a little bit 12:56:15 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 13:01:58 grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #scheme 13:06:08 Def [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has joined #scheme 13:06:22 -!- Deformati [n=joe@71.238.45.45] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:11:52 berat: please start asking real questions instead of randomly polling for random people 13:12:08 sorry 13:12:37 i ask very real question 13:13:51 -!- kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has left #scheme 13:14:39 i try to implement lambda calculus in plai scheme.I wrote two function find-frees and find-bounds and i wrote some helper function which is addition and remove-from-body.I used remove-from-body in find-fress and use addition function in find-bounds.Find-frees works perfectly but find-bounds is problematic.And i cannot find the mistake.How can i fix it.http://paste.org/5622 it is pasted here 13:17:17 lisppaste: url 13:17:17 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 13:18:59 berat pasted "bound variable in lambda calculus" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76276 13:19:06 okey hkBst 13:22:05 berat: alright, now we can read the code, but what do we need to do to reproduce your problem? Do we really need ALL of your code for that? 13:22:10 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 13:22:53 okey 13:23:04 in that address there is my all code 13:23:10 my problem is 13:23:23 i try to implement lambda calculus in plai . 13:23:36 I define type of plai i wrote parse function 13:23:48 now i have to find free and bound variable 13:24:03 i am ok in findind free variables 13:24:16 but i have some problem in finding bound variable 13:24:42 i guss my adition function has some problem but i cannot find.can you help me 13:28:24 -!- foof [n=user@st1045.nas941.k-tokyo.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:30:37 -!- Narrenschiff [n=ritchie@xolotl.plus.com] has quit [] 13:50:08 civodul [n=user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 13:54:22 kryptiskt_ [n=irc@cust-IP-129.data.tre.se] has joined #scheme 13:56:11 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 14:05:23 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 14:07:26 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 14:09:16 berat pasted "bound variable in lambda calculus" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76278 14:16:33 berat: (define (weird-cons l1 l2) (append (map list l1) l2)) 14:17:06 masm, do you know plai 14:17:14 No. 14:17:55 okey 14:17:59 one more thing 14:18:02 it gives 14:18:18 (list (list 1) (list 2) (list 3) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) 14:18:21 i want 14:18:42 (list (list 1) . (list 2) . (list 3) .(....)) 14:18:50 are there a way to put "." 14:18:56 no 14:19:43 no way 14:19:53 but i need some dotted structure 14:20:04 you can't 14:20:15 (append (map list l1) (list l2)) 14:20:51 i do that masm 14:20:57 anyway 14:21:02 is is not important 14:21:09 Cheshire, can i ask a question to you 14:21:17 this is very important for me 14:24:07 berat pasted "bound variable in lambda calculus" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76279 14:24:20 pls Cheshire help me a little bit 14:25:42 X-Scale2 [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #scheme 14:26:14 -!- X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:26:30 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:35:02 -!- grettke [n=grettke@CPE-65-31-142-107.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [] 14:38:35 attila_lendvai [n=ati@business-89-132-61-222.business.broadband.hu] has joined #scheme 14:39:22 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 14:53:50 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 14:54:26 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 15:08:29 stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 15:17:27 npe [i=npe@dn157-088.naist.jp] has joined #scheme 15:22:32 borism [n=boris@195-50-212-213-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 15:23:09 reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 15:24:44 stepnem_ [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 15:29:27 borism_ [n=boris@195-50-205-237-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 15:29:40 -!- borism__ [n=boris@195-50-206-252-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:35:31 borism__ [n=boris@195-50-207-113-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has joined #scheme 15:36:11 -!- borism [n=boris@195-50-212-213-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:37:13 -!- elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has quit ["leaving"] 15:39:07 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 15:39:10 -!- ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:39:33 -!- stepnem [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [No route to host] 15:41:08 -!- borism_ [n=boris@195-50-205-237-dsl.krw.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:42:22 ASau [n=user@193.138.70.52] has joined #scheme 15:42:30 amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #scheme 16:01:07 -!- civodul [n=user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 16:10:47 dmoerner [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 16:33:02 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 16:34:58 -!- offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has quit ["Rebooting emacs(!)"] 16:40:39 johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 16:41:19 -!- npe [i=npe@dn157-088.naist.jp] has quit [] 16:43:28 -!- johnnowak [n=johnnowa@207-38-171-48.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:45:45 -!- rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:45:56 rdd [n=rdd@c83-250-154-52.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #scheme 16:46:48 annodomini [n=lambda@64.30.3.122] has joined #scheme 16:47:10 i fix my all mistake 16:48:14 offby1 [n=user@q-static-138-125.avvanta.com] has joined #scheme 16:48:36 good 16:50:02 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@g225033025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 16:51:03 it works very good i am finding free and bound variables perfectly Cheshire thanks for your helt 16:51:08 help* 16:53:01 reprore__ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #scheme 16:53:19 -!- reprore_ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:54:02 -!- X-Scale2 [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has left #scheme 16:59:07 when trying to compile a file with larceny, > (proc:compile-file "ising.scm") , it fails with Error: Undefined global variable "proc:compile-file". Does anyone have a clue why that happens? 16:59:36 Are you sure the procedure is called PROC:COMPILE-FILE? I thought it was just called COMPILE-FILE; at least, it was in the last version of Larceny I used. 16:59:49 hkBst: well, it looks liek it's not called PROC:COMPILE_FILE, right? 17:00:18 it's what it's called in the manual 17:00:43 maybe I misunderstood the manual 17:02:02 -!- hark [n=strider@hark.slew.org] has quit ["leaving"] 17:02:41 (Gosh, Larceny's web page looks so much better once I strip off the style sheet.) 17:04:25 alright, so now I get Error: get-datum: Lexical Error: Missing delimiter: -e # 17:04:28 Judofyr_ [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 17:04:34 M-x check-parens RET 17:05:09 Just curious: where did you find PROC:COMPILE-FILE? 17:05:29 Riastradh: doc/UserManual/compiling.txt 17:06:31 Wild guess: That file is not merely a plain text file, but meant to be filtered through some wikiful markup expunginator. 17:06:56 quite possibly :) 17:07:17 -!- Judofyr_ [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:07:53 Try reading (with a web browser, not with curl(1) piped to less(1)) or one of the other editions intended for human consumption. 17:08:54 Riastradh: the file runs fine with gambit, so there aren't any unmatched paren issues 17:09:27 (And what a name GET-DATUM is. I suppose I ought not to ask whether they could have thought of a sillier-looking one.) 17:09:42 What's in the file? 17:10:59 hkBst pasted "ising.scm" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76284 17:14:24 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 17:14:43 choas [n=lars@d91-129-16-143.cust.tele2.at] has joined #scheme 17:15:51 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:16:51 Riastradh: any idea why I get that cryptic error? 17:17:32 i get dumped into the debugger, but that doesn't seem to help with this 17:17:36 -!- underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:18:47 Avoid writing symbols whose names begin with hyphens. 17:19:11 -!- choas [n=lars@d91-129-16-143.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Client Quit] 17:19:32 Riastradh: I have one that ends with a hyphen 17:20:03 You have one that begins with a hyphen, too. 17:20:29 hmm, you mean this: (define (SPIN-) -1) ? 17:20:36 That is a name that ends with a hyphen. 17:20:44 The name -ENERGY/J-PLUS begins with a hyphen. 17:21:23 oh, right :) 17:21:45 I don't know whether that is the source of the problem, but it may be a source of problems. 17:22:12 it's perfectly valid though, right? 17:23:16 No. 17:23:30 Reloaded [n=reloaded@89-139-77-173.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #scheme 17:24:20 All names except for - that begin with hyphens are invalid lexical syntax in the R5RS. Only - and those names that begin with -> may begin with hyphens in the R6RS. 17:25:05 how annoying 17:25:23 Sorry. Please direct complaints to discuss@r6rs.org. 17:25:36 will do 17:25:50 Does changing that name by any chance fix your problem? 17:25:50 wtf 17:25:54 that's insane 17:26:02 A quick fix is to use bar style escaping: |-foo| 17:26:04 this is like C 17:26:08 Not entirely, Cheshire. 17:26:11 you can't name any functions str 17:26:34 Riastradh: yes, it seems to have fixed it. Much thanks. 17:26:52 Cheshire: You can _name_ it -foo, but you can't enter a symbol name -foo without confusing the parser, so you'd have to escape it 17:27:00 The obvious examples in favour of this rule are -i and +i. 17:27:49 Cheshire: Also, several implementations do not get confused, and allow it 17:28:55 -!- reprore__ [n=reprore@ntkngw304058.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:29:41 Worse, suppose I change the default radix to be hexadecimal, or, even worse, hexatrigesimal. Then what is the lexical interpretation of -DEADBEEF or +CAFEBABE -- a name or a number? 17:30:46 Riastradh: But that would go for just BABE too, if you did that 17:31:00 (Apologies for the absurd construction `hexatrigesimal'. The etymologically correct spelling is `sextrigesimal', but so is `sexdecimal', which is just as aesthetically atrocious as `hexatrigesimal' is etymologically so.) 17:31:35 No, sjamaan. Initial letters would begin symbols. 17:32:21 (Or else surely i, our favourite index variable, would be the complex imaginary unit.) 17:33:08 Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #scheme 17:33:41 -!- annodomini [n=lambda@wikipedia/lambda] has quit [] 17:36:14 The alternative to having a clear, simple rule (names beginning with - and + that are not simply - and + are read as numbers) is having obscure and confusing errors where some misspelled names are read as numbers and some misspelled numbers are read as names, which may vary from implementation to implementation depending on the precise details of the number syntax. 17:37:15 I have a simple rule: 17:37:17 For example, perhaps I might want to add lexical syntax to my favourite Scheme system for quaternions. Then one Scheme system might read +i+j+k as a symbol while mine reads it as the quaternion with zero real part and all imaginary parts 1. 17:37:20 every name is allowed 17:37:36 `Allowed' in the lexical syntax to be written literally without escapes? 17:37:38 Cheshire: Even (hi, there) ? 17:37:50 and something like 4 is already bound (to the number 4) 17:38:04 if you (let ((4 'x)) .. then you rebound it, no problem there 17:38:11 What about `('? 17:38:13 Cheshire: You can actually bind an identifier named 4 to 10, if you'd like 17:38:18 (define |4| 10) 17:38:20 well you write it like |(| 17:39:00 What if I write (LET ((04 'X)) ...) versus (LET ((4 'X)) ...) versus (LET ((|4| 'X)) ...) versus (LET ((#B100 'X)) ...)? 17:39:02 sjamaan, I think that 4 and |4| should be the same though 17:39:14 the same symbol .. that is 17:39:27 Riastradh, clearly #B100 should not be bound 17:39:33 Why not identify FOUR and |4| and |04|, then, while you're at it? 17:39:35 I mean # is special syntax 17:39:47 because they might have the same value.. but they are different symbols 17:40:24 What about 4., 4+0i, 4-0i, and 4-0i-0k-0j? 4/1? 20/5? 17:40:34 How about TWENTY-FIFTHS? 17:40:58 Maybe |(+ 3 1)| should also be bound by default to the same value. 17:41:24 No, I have a better idea. 17:41:34 you aren't listening to me 17:41:35 Every number denotes the Goedel-encoding of some object. 17:43:13 I am listening, but more importantly I'm waiting for you (1) to justify your suggestion, and (2) to argue convincingly that it will work reasonably. 17:46:50 I already did 17:47:20 Um, no you didn't 17:47:23 No, you didn't. You stated your rule and then said `I think that 4 and |4| should be the same, though; and clearly #B100 should not be bound.' 17:47:31 That is not justification. 17:47:51 #B100 is syntax for the value of the symbol 4 17:48:03 so #B100 is not the symbol 4 17:48:18 Back up. 17:48:19 4 is not a symbol 17:48:24 4 is a number 17:48:29 sjamaan, currently yes, but I am suggestion an alternative 17:48:42 rudybot: eval (string->symbol "4") 17:48:43 sjamaan: your sandbox is ready 17:48:43 sjamaan: ; Value: |4| 17:48:44 Suggesting, but not justifying. I'm waiting for the justifying part. 17:48:53 Riastradh what do you want me to say? 17:49:05 I don't know; if I knew your justification, why should I ask for it? 17:49:20 Cheshire: I suggest you go stand on your head for an hour 17:50:01 Better, I suggest cheese is made from oil 17:50:20 here is my viewpoint: Everything you write down is symbolic, when you write 4 it is a symbol for the number 4 17:50:32 bbl 17:50:35 in Scheme that's not reflected though, since numbers have special status 17:50:49 (What about when you write `('?) 17:50:50 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:51:21 like (apply f x y z) 17:51:24 ? 17:51:54 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:57 um bad example 17:52:02 Like in any Lisp program on the planet except for the most trivial and pathological of them. 17:52:20 (I.e., those that are literally numbers or strings or quoted symbols, or references to global variables.) 17:52:28 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 17:58:11 Do let me know when you have thought your suggestion through and are prepared to justify it. 17:58:26 I have thought it through 17:59:47 `...and are prepared to justify it.' 18:00:01 I will try to justify it to you if you like 18:00:25 I like hearing justification more than I like asking thrice to hear it and hearing nothing. 18:02:11 hkBst, by the way, please submit a Larceny bug report about the irrelevant error message that you received. 18:02:40 bzzbzz [n=franco@modemcable027.191-81-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #scheme 18:04:43 lisppaste, url 18:04:43 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/scheme and enter your paste. 18:05:11 Riastradh, is there something specific about what I described which is not clear? 18:05:15 Riastradh: I'm just starting to write a mail about my experiences 18:05:16 Yes: Why? 18:06:25 I second sjamaan's suggestion that you stand on your head for an hour. (Maybe that will help you to think of a justification.) 18:06:33 arcfide [n=arcfide@adsl-99-137-203-229.dsl.bltnin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 18:06:36 I don't know what you want me to justify! 18:06:50 arcfide, I suggest that you stand on your head for an hour. 18:07:18 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 18:07:24 *arcfide* looks around. 18:07:31 Riastradh: Did I miss something? 18:08:02 I say, I don't log in for a bit and now I'm doing head stands! 18:08:27 Cheshire, you have stated your suggstion but not its justification. I can't think how to say it more simply, and since we're each confused about what the other is trying to say, perhaps this discussion has been doomed from the outset. 18:08:33 I think the longest I have held a hand stand is about one minute. 18:09:01 Riastradh, it is the simplest way to define a concrete syntax for scheme .. this is my justification 18:09:03 After that my shoulders start to get a little tired. 18:09:18 I must have missed something good. 18:09:25 Well, BITWISE-NAND is the simplest way to render all the important bitwise operations. 18:10:06 no it's not :( 18:10:10 it's the shortest way 18:10:12 A routine to approximate sequential convergence in the real numbers is the simplest way to approximate a good number of arithmetic and analytic operations that are redundantly provided by Scheme. 18:11:33 What benefit does your suggestion bring? `Purity' and `simplicity' are not ends; they are means. 18:13:17 simplicity is important to me 18:16:19 berat pasted "bound variable" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76287 18:19:40 Well, then you are welcome to design a new language that satisfies the properties you find important. 18:20:34 thanks 18:21:35 I would also define the evaluation order (<1> <2> ...) and then apply the values 18:22:33 that way (delimited) continuations don't expose something unspecified 18:23:11 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 18:23:25 *gnomon* ponders a Scheme system that would perform evaluations in every possible order, and then stick with the one that generates an error 18:24:18 Why does that bother you, Cheshire? 18:24:22 *gnomon* wonders how many stupid C bugs could have been avoided if a similar C system were available 18:24:57 Riastradh it doesn't really bother me but I think it would be an improvement 18:25:01 Riastradh: I'm still confused by your standing on my head comment. 18:25:20 because there is some fun you can have with continuations 18:25:33 arcfide: He was only making a suggestion 18:25:43 sjamaan: To what end? 18:25:49 Exactly! 18:26:22 Has current literature found some sort of interesting link between programming and standing on one's head? 18:26:28 Today is `suggestions without justification day'. 18:26:40 I suggest that you dunk your head in a bucket of ice water. 18:26:42 I see, so, no literature, eh? 18:26:42 why do you hate me so much 18:26:54 LOL 18:27:01 Cheshire: Oh, that's a good one. 18:27:06 arcfide, Cheshire was proposing a change to Scheme's evaluation system with which Riastradh disagrees; Riastradh asked for justification, Cheshire responded a few times but has not yet provided one which satisfies Riastradh; Riastradh then suggested that Cheshire stand upside down for a while. 18:27:14 arcfide, you merely got caught in the crossfire. 18:27:17 pk_ [n=pk@AGrenoble-257-1-48-15.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #scheme 18:27:25 I was suggesting a change to the syntax 18:27:38 I 18:27:38 I dunno 18:27:38 Lexical syntax, not evaluation system, gnomon. 18:27:48 Sorry, yes. 18:28:00 arcfide, I was actually hoping that you'd say `Uh...why?'. 18:28:26 Hah! 18:28:36 I'm afraid you picked the wrong IRC entity to ask. 18:28:51 I do regularly stand on my head. 18:28:52 :-P 18:28:53 I have an even better suggestion for gnomon. 18:28:59 Uh oh. 18:29:01 There's no need for justification, in many cases. 18:29:07 gnomon, I suggest that you stand on your head sumberged in a bucket of ice water! 18:29:10 Riastradh: done 18:29:15 ARGHLUB 18:29:21 (Zorglub?) 18:29:22 *arcfide* shudders. 18:29:26 Did that one too, once. 18:29:37 Quite the experience, let me tell you. 18:29:38 I have sumberged my head. Now what? 18:29:52 Oh, right, stand on it. 18:29:56 *Daemmerung* detaches foot 18:30:20 This is getting stranger by the second. 18:30:37 Now make me a sandwich. 18:31:49 *Daemmerung* gestures hypnotically 18:32:01 Voi la! You are a sandwich. 18:34:13 -!- Fulax [n=cyprien@pdpc/supporter/student/cnicolas] has quit ["Out of Memory: Killed process [9823] xchat."] 18:35:16 Riastradh: could you take a moment to provide a very high-level overview of what your SPARQL code does? 18:35:22 It seems that there are four components. 18:35:41 One Format, one Sexp, one Results-SSAX, and then an HTTP Client. 18:36:16 annodomini [n=lambda@c-75-69-96-104.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:36:17 I presume that the HTTP Client's job is to connect to a Sparql server, send a query, and parse the results into some meaningful representation for further use by the Scheme program. 18:36:34 (1) is a library to format SPARQL queries. (2) is a map from S-expressions to SPARQL query formats. (3) is a trivial, silly utility that uses SSAX to read SPARQL responses. (4) is a simple library to submit queries to SPARQL endpoints. 18:36:42 To this end, I am guessing that results-ssax handles the parsing of the results into SXML. 18:36:47 No. 18:37:40 Oh. 18:37:56 So, #2 is what you would use if you wanted to construct some query to send to a server? 18:38:17 More specifically, #2 is what you would use if you wanted to write a SPARQL query literally in a Scheme program. 18:38:19 You use SSAX to parse results? Into what? 18:38:31 Right. 18:38:55 Hrm, so, this is useful stuff, but not useful enough for me to worry about it further. At least, not until I have a working server that handles SPARQL. 18:39:49 SSAX incrementally parses the XML, and sparql-results-ssax.scm passes the data thereby parsed to procedures that handle variables and binding sets in the SPARQL query results. 18:39:57 Try running the queries in examples/sparql.scm. 18:40:02 Do you know of any decent server for handling SPARQL stuff? I don't suppose you would know of anything in Scheme that would serve those purposes, would you? 18:40:18 I planned to write one but never got around to it. 18:40:25 Hrm. 18:40:54 Well, currently, I have the RDF code ported, and it appears to work well enough for parsing the input files I expect. It even gives me cool little structured output just the way I like it. 18:41:14 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 18:41:15 However, this is going to be a server to accept queries aboout the RDF graphs. 18:41:30 It seems that the SPARQL code you've written won't help me with that. 18:41:49 That is correct. 18:42:03 But I could use it to create a client to use my server. *sigh* 18:42:08 Cart before the horse. 18:42:49 -!- pk_ [n=pk@AGrenoble-257-1-48-15.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:42:50 If you'd like, I can send you what I began to write for a SPARQL parser. 18:42:58 I haven't spent much time with this stuff. Do you have a recommended approach to handling the incoming queries? Is there anything I can read on representing the databases I need to handle the queries? 18:43:02 (It is not remotely complete, however.) 18:43:28 Riastradh: Is it going to be easier for me to start from scratch? I haven't really looked much at parscheme, but it did seem interesting. 18:43:31 There's lots of material out there on RDF stores and SPARQL endpoints, but most of it is in the form of Java code. 18:43:36 (Gigantic piles of Java code.) 18:43:41 I see. 18:43:44 Yuck. 18:43:53 (Gigantic, steaming, heaping piles of Java code.) 18:44:27 Right now, even though I have the vocabularies, I'm really not sure how to store and represent the RDF in such a way that it's easy to get to each node individually, while making searching using SPARQL easy. 18:45:03 I assumed that if all the data were laid out nicely, a static web server like Apache could handle the normal refrerences just fine, and that all I would need to write is a server to handle the searching. 18:45:26 But, honestly, beyond writing a SPARQL server, I have no idea where I should start with this pile of goo. 18:45:46 Riastradh: and yes, maybe I will take a look at what you started to write. 18:46:11 -!- amoe [n=amoe@cpc1-brig3-0-0-cust512.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"] 18:46:26 This was never really meant to be the basis for an RDF triple store; actually it was originally meant to be a midpoint, not an endpoint, so that one could run a SPARQL server in Scheme that accepts queries, sends simpler queries to another SPARQL endpoint, and then does lots of `reasoning' to answer the original queries. 18:47:05 I see. 18:47:11 If what you want is a scalable RDF triple store, well... That's not an easy problem, and you can start by Googling for literature on it. 18:48:02 Well, what I want to do is represent information about Scheme Libraries in a decentralized manner, where these servers communicate via SPARQL. Thus, if you want a Scheme library, you can just search for it from my to be created web site or some client. 18:48:14 geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has joined #scheme 18:48:42 The triples themselves are not complex. And each repository is just a collection of Library type nodes. 18:49:43 I just thought that it would be beneficial to use SPARQL as a language for quering this at the lower level, and wrap higher level searches (say, from some web site) around it. 18:52:17 ...ah, I just remembered why a SPARQL parser got pushed on the stack before I made much progress: I wanted a lexical tokenizer, which parscheme doesn't currently provide. 18:53:31 Hrm. 18:53:44 Yours is the only parsing framework I know of at the moment. 18:53:53 Now, you could just throw something together with streams and regexps. 18:55:39 Eh...doesn't sound great. 18:55:57 It is reasonably separable from the other problems that must be solved, and it would be expedient. 18:56:31 I just need to be able to search the RDF collection that I end up accumulating. 18:56:43 Or you could figure out how to use, say, Jena. 18:56:43 Using some standard query language that other people know about. 18:56:51 I found Redland... 18:56:59 They all seem...over-engineered? 18:57:08 That's a mild way of putting it. 18:58:14 A search optimized way of indexing RDF stores + a SPARQL query engine implementation would be fine. I could write the implementation if someone had some good technical information about techniques for doing so. 18:58:16 -!- jonaskoelker [n=jonas@ip-30-5.bnaa.dk] has left #scheme 18:58:34 But I don't want to read a whole bunch of PHP or Java code. 19:02:54 athos [n=philipp@92.250.204.223] has joined #scheme 19:05:49 ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #scheme 19:11:06 Good, Loving Lambdas! The existing implementations are crazy. 19:12:02 arcfide, can i ask a question about lambda calculus (free and bound variables) 19:12:15 berat: Um, sure? 19:12:28 just a second 19:17:30 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:18:22 Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has joined #scheme 19:19:48 berat pasted "bound variable" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/76288 19:19:57 arcfide, it is here 19:20:27 Uh, what's your question? 19:20:30 What is this? 19:21:55 berat: I am afraid this is too much code for me to read right now, but I think someone else here could very easily answer your question. 19:23:55 -!- stepnem_ [n=chatzill@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:23:56 i wish i wrote my question araujo actually this is a short code.It is about five min utes to read.Pls answer me if you have time 19:25:41 Jimi_Hendrix [n=Jimi@unaffiliated/jimihendrix/x-735601] has joined #scheme 19:26:04 what would the equivilent of != be in scheme? (like == is (=)) 19:26:14 Use NOT and = together. 19:26:20 ok 19:26:28 does NOT have to be capital? 19:30:40 No. 19:31:29 hey someone pls hear my voice :D:D:D 19:34:57 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@g225033025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:36:10 iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@g225039073.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:36:36 dmoerner_ [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #scheme 19:39:40 -!- dmoerner_ [n=dmr@ppp-71-139-45-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:16 -!- geckosenator [n=sean@71.237.94.78] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:49:15 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 19:51:48 -!- jao [n=jao@252.Red-79-155-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:52:54 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:53:13 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 19:53:16 iion_tichy1 [n=Bjoern@g225040107.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #scheme 19:58:42 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:59:41 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 20:08:28 -!- iion_tichy [n=Bjoern@g225039073.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:09:52 -!- stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:09:59 jao [n=jao@252.Red-79-155-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #scheme 20:10:06 stepnem [n=stepnem@topol.nat.praha12.net] has joined #scheme 20:25:40 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:26:55 WebDestroya [n=webdestr@ip68-109-87-166.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #scheme 20:27:48 -!- WebDestroya [n=webdestr@ip68-109-87-166.oc.oc.cox.net] has left #scheme 20:31:45 civodul [n=user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has joined #scheme 20:31:54 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [] 20:34:44 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 20:36:13 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 20:38:50 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 21:09:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:09:55 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:10:17 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:11 -!- Adamant_ [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:15:02 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:16:29 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:18:22 error_developer_ [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 21:20:47 -!- berat [n=berat@d-stu.ibun.edu.tr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:21:11 -!- errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:21:14 kjrdc [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has joined #scheme 21:21:40 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:23:09 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:33:57 -!- Nshag [i=user@Mix-Orleans-106-2-159.w193-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 21:36:29 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:37:58 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 21:46:48 gweiqi [n=greg@69.120.126.163] has joined #scheme 21:47:11 Adamant [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:47:34 Adamant_ [n=Adamant@c-71-226-66-93.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 21:47:35 -!- Adamant [n=Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:54:38 Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has joined #scheme 22:00:06 peter_12 [n=peter_12@209.226.201.250] has joined #scheme 22:07:52 kilimanjaro [n=kilimanj@70.116.95.163] has joined #scheme 22:15:38 -!- ramkrsna [n=ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:18:38 ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has joined #scheme 22:19:41 bohanlon [n=bohanlon@pool-71-184-223-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #scheme 22:20:07 does someone know how to interact with the repl in #schemerepl? 22:27:47 -!- benny [n=benny@i577A0D76.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:28:32 benny [n=benny@i577A0D76.versanet.de] has joined #scheme 22:28:35 I think #schemerepl is dead. 22:30:50 kjrdc: I hear our own rudybot has a sort of repl 22:31:03 rudybot: eval "Yes, it's true" 22:31:03 *offby1: your scheme sandbox is ready 22:31:03 *offby1: ; Value: "Yes, it's true" 22:40:50 is it common for Scheme implementations to allocate a bunch of memory for cons cells and then just recycle the cons cells without calling free/alloc every time? 22:41:21 I think most scheme implementations do their own heap management 22:41:21 yes 22:41:47 for every kind of object? 22:41:57 peter12, that is one common garbage collection algorithm 22:42:12 hmm 22:42:55 -!- ecraven [n=nex@140.78.42.103] has quit ["bbl"] 22:43:05 Cheshire: does that particular algorithm have a name? 22:43:12 yes 22:43:30 stop and copy 22:43:37 ahh 22:43:47 they talk about that in SICP 22:44:15 -!- jewel [n=jewel@dsl-242-186-123.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 22:49:10 exexex [n=chatzill@85.96.162.116] has joined #scheme 22:55:51 -!- peter_12 [n=peter_12@209.226.201.250] has quit [] 22:57:04 Riastradh, furthermore, 22:57:29 people get confused about 1.0 vs 0.9999... because they think the notation IS the numbers, whereas they are really just a syntax for them 22:57:35 i.e. symbolic of the actual thing 23:02:59 It is also common for malloc implementations to sbrk() a bunch of memory for their blocks and then just recycle them without calling brk/sbrk every time. 23:08:32 what do people use to debug memory leaks in code using an FFI? "conventional 23:09:53 ..." tools (like valgrind, tcmalloc, ...) only show a C backtrace, which is quite useless, as it only shows that malloc() was called via (say) libffi, but not not the Scheme "stack"... 23:11:30 -!- hkBst [n=hkBst@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:13:58 -!- chupish [i=c03a96bb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-91dd8161d2aa830d] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 23:19:24 ugh :-| 23:21:11 -!- Judofyr [n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:22:59 Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #scheme 23:23:43 -!- Cowmoo` [n=Cowmoo@c-98-218-214-24.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:24:24 elias` [n=me@unaffiliated/elias/x-342423] has joined #scheme 23:24:37 X-Scale [i=email@2001:470:1f08:b3d:0:0:0:2] has joined #scheme 23:25:09 bombshelter13 [n=bombshel@CPE00179ab667a9-CM001a6682dc74.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #scheme 23:25:58 JohnnyL [n=atomicto@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #scheme 23:26:09 -!- JohnnyL [n=atomicto@ool-182f0b98.dyn.optonline.net] has left #scheme 23:26:23 -!- Arelius [n=Indy@netblock-68-183-230-134.dslextreme.com] has quit [] 23:31:54 rotty: I use careful code analysis. :-) 23:32:21 -!- civodul [n=user@reverse-83.fdn.fr] has quit ["ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)"] 23:33:34 Anyone knows a sane module system that allows, in some controlled way, for some bindings to be left "undefined" so that module A, which imports module B definitions, defines some variables that are used in module B. 23:33:48 I'm looking for ideas for a module system. 23:38:03 Reloaden [n=reloaded@89-139-77-173.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #scheme 23:39:24 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:40:36 masm: take a look at unit in PLT Scheme http://download.plt-scheme.org/doc/html/reference/creatingunits.html 23:43:37 -!- saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:44:09 saccade [n=saccade@65-78-24-47.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #scheme 23:48:20 -!- Guest53236 [n=m@dslb-088-066-229-011.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 23:52:00 errordeveloper [n=errordev@78-86-1-110.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #scheme 23:55:29 -!- Reloaded [n=reloaded@89-139-77-173.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:55:41 mejja [n=user@c-4bb5e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #scheme 23:55:45 -!- kjrdc [n=user@vie-nas-ge-0-2.onenet.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:57:56 I finally figured out the solution to 3.19 in sicp :)...testing to see if a list is a cycle 23:58:28 s/3.19/3.18 23:58:47 cool 23:58:49 so, is a list a cycle ? 23:58:51 nice :) 23:58:51 what is the answer 23:59:04 sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #scheme 23:59:05 have you met Cons the Magnificent ? 23:59:08 of course not, you can't ride a list to work! 23:59:22 Arelius [n=Indy@adsl-75-52-240-247.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #scheme 23:59:42 -!- Cheshire [n=e@amcant.demon.co.uk] has quit ["Leaving"]